Why did we remove Bluetooth DUN?


I’m Greg Scott and I work as a developer on a team that provides core networking technologies on Windows Mobile.  There has been some [negative] feedback from the community about Bluetooth dial-up networking (DUN) being removed in WM5 AKU3.  I’ll do my best to explain that.


Internet [Connection] Sharing


In WM5 AKU3 we introduced a new application called “Internet Sharing”.  The technology behind this is actually referred to as Internet Connection Sharing (ICS).  But our usability folks decided to drop the word “Connection” since it didn’t fit nicely in the user interface.


ICS is something we’ve shipped as a component in the Windows CE operating system for several releases.  We have now brought this technology to Windows Mobile.  ICS allows you to share a public network connection (cellular data) with a private network connection (Bluetooth PAN or USB).  The phone is basically acting like a your home’s wireless router.


Modem Link


Before Internet Sharing, we shipped an application called Modem Link.  This application enables some of the same functionality provided by ICS.  Modem Link supported sharing the cellular data connection over USB, IrDA, or Bluetooth.  For Bluetooth, the DUN profile was used.


Instead of sharing the Internet connection at the IP layer, as ICS does, Modem Link enables the PC to directly send commands to the cellular radio on the device.


How is Internet Sharing better?


ICS is superior to the modem link technology in several ways.


1)      Usability: With Modem Link, users need to enter dial strings (e.g. *99#) to connect their PC to the Internet.  This is not necessary with Internet Sharing.

2)      Uninterrupted connectivity: ICS can continue to be connected when you get an incoming voice call.  Modem Link will give up the cellular radio for the phone to answer the voice call.  Internet Sharing will stay connected in this scenario.  On some cellular networks it is not able to send or receive data.  The cellular network needs to support simultaneous voice/data to provide the best user experience.  This is supported on 3G networks.

3)      Full connectivity: When you are connected over ICS, the applications on your device (e.g. ActiveSync) remain connected to the Internet.  This is not the case with Modem Link.

4)      Future enhancements: Unfortunately I’m not allowed to discuss new features we are planning.  But you can probably imagine some of the new features we can add with a fully IP-based solution.

5)      Compatibility with future cellular radio technology.  New cellular radios are supporting an IP packet-based interface as opposed to the legacy serial-based interface.  Modem Link and Bluetooth DUN are dependent on the legacy serial interface but Internet Sharing can function over either interface.


So far we have gotten mostly positive feedback about Internet Sharing. Most people have commented that it “just works” compared to the process of setting up your phone as a modem with Modem Link.


With that said, we have gotten some feedback that ICS usability is actually worse in some cases.  The Internet Sharing app requires that the user first “connect” ICS before connecting Bluetooth PAN from the PC.  With DUN you could initiate everything from the PC side.  This is something we’ll work on improving in the future.


But why did we remove Bluetooth DUN?


So you may be thinking, ok, Internet Sharing is really cool but why did you need to remove Bluetooth DUN?!?  My car kit or Mac does not support Bluetooth PAN and I relied on this legacy technology.


Actually, Microsoft did not remove Bluetooth DUN completely.  We still ship this technology to our OEMs.  It is included in an optional package that OEMs and operators can decide to ship on a per device basis.  Internet Sharing is also in an optional package.  We did change one thing though.  Internet Sharing is included by default and Bluetooth DUN no longer is.


Bluetooth DUN is a legacy technology that is likely to disappear over time.  Especially when you look at the great experience Internet Sharing provides with Bluetooth PAN.  It also does not make sense for cellular radios to continue supporting a legacy interface just to enable Bluetooth DUN.  In the past we received a lot of criticism about Modem Link, especially related to usability.  For this reason we decided not to include it by default.


Anyway, based on continued feedback from the community, we have changed our minds!  We will bring Bluetooth DUN back by default in a future WM6 AKU release.  Keep in mind that OEMs and operators still have the final say whether DUN will end up on a specific device.




So, please give us your feedback.  We’d love to hear what new features you’d like to see in Internet Sharing, whether you’ve had a good or bad experience, etc.  Thanks!


Comments (214)

  1. JasperM says:

    I have used the ICS on the BlackJack (US Version) and it works quite well, I usually use the USB Cable option to take advantage of the trickle charge.  It is somewhat hard to find, but still manageable to get to on the devices.

    I would have thought that the DUN profile would be a request of the carriers, since it would seem that the ICS may be bypassing many of the imposed "tethering" restrictions on devices, especially those that connect to high speed or 3G networks.

    Some of the devices, like the BlacJack, also have the ability to be detected as a modem through the USB connection.  This is a wired connection, however it can be helpful if someone just really really wants or needs to connect via a modem.

    The only instance in which I would enjoy a Bluetooth DUN connection would be if I were using a Windows Mobile 6 phone, for voice, and I wanted to connect to another Windows Mobile 5 for a data connection.  So I wouldn’t have to have two data connection plans, only one.  Don’t ask why I carry two Windows Mobile devices…

    I have seen some instances, like the one above, would it be beneficial to have the Bluetooth PAN connection go both ways, rather than just a one way data connection.

  2. Rubi says:

    So, your explanation as to the question "Why did you remove bt dun?" is that just because ICS is "cooler" ?

    Regardless of what the users think or want?

    OK, ICS works, but you should have left the bt stack unchanged and let us decide which one to use. BT PAN is a pain and slower on my setup than just using BT DUN.

    Thank you anyway for your article.

  3. James Hancock says:

    The real head slapper with Bluetooth isn’t DUN, it’s why you guys removed bluetooth headset support from the final of Vista.

    This is inane and needs to be fixed ASAP. Especially with your Office Live Communications Server stuff out, this is a no-brainer!

  4. Kenny Oldenskov says:

    Once again I find that something was snatched away from under my nose, you just don’t get do you, when you take a feature away without phasing it out it causes great disharmony – in MS case from you, to manufactors, to carriers, to users – gee did MS think of that – NO.

    Your bluetooth stack is already second rate to that of Widcomm, now you hampered it more, I cannot buy any of the stereo bluetooth headsets that I want because the MS stack does not play nice, I’m talking clicks and poor use of features that should work, e.g. being able to resume after a call, most of features are not working with a MS bluetooth stack but with a Widcomm stack, why oh why is this?

    You (MS) should firstly make your stack a working stack, then add features not delete them and then make note of all the forums around the net with disgruntled users that have bought a headset that does not work because of your stack.

  5. Jack says:

    Have you guys really read the full article before complaining?

    Microsoft did not remove the feature, just made it non default for the OEMs. Complain to the OEMs and they will bring the feature back.

    Microsoft seems to not have any dialog with the actual end users but with the OEMs.

    I find it very strange that Microsoft keeps implementing new features in AKUs making devices with the same Windows Mobile version different. Some devices are still on AKU 2 and will probably never ever see AKU 3.

    Personally I’m all for new useful features, but maybe Microsoft should wait until the next major release insead of sneaking in the features in AKU updates that may or may not be in the devices on the market.

    It’s also sad that Microsoft does not provide a feature addition list for new AKUS for end users.

  6. JasperM says:

    On an OEM note, since the feature is optional for OEMs, usually the OEM defers to whoever they are making the product for (e.g. carriers).  

    As far as releasing it in an AKU version, that can prove problematic for people who want those features, but don’t have the capabilities to upgrade to a new AKU, which would require a re-flash on a unit.  Would it possible to have this feature be an optional Windows Mobile Update feature?  Seeing as how there are some people who would use, and those who wouldn’t, perhaps the users could decide for their selves and download it via the Windows Mobile Update function in WM6?

    If my understanding is correct the features downloaded using this functionality will remain in the ROM, and not be deleted after a hard reset.  Of course if adding BT DUN support causes drastic changes in the OS perhaps it would be better, or more stable to release an entirely new AKU for that feature.

  7. Eagle117 says:

    I like JasperM’s idea.  I would really like to see the AKUs become more like a Windows Update.  If the carrier sees that it is rock solid and no problems, then they can release it as a ROM upgrade and have it be always installed but my phone that is 8 months old has AKU2.3 and no plans to go any further since Wm6 is out.  If I had the option to download AKU3 over the top of my current install I would be willing to try it. If it didn’t work, then I would hard reset it back to how the carrier decided it would work on their network and away we go.

  8. HelioD says:

    I like internet sharing in PocketPCs. I have seen it and used it and found it to be very reliable, and mostly simple for the simple user.

    I am still trying to find it in my Blackjack Smartphone. While I can see the USB Modem mode in USB, I can find no parallel for Bluetooth. This is not so relevant here, but maybe someone in the comments will help me find it.

    Anyway, I think that the big problem is that the OEMs and the Mobile Operators have more control on the OS that will be released than Microsoft does. JasperM suggests an utopic suggestion, that would actually be the best solution for it, but at least for what I see around, I don’t see MS being able to implement it in the next 5 years without breaking ties with all OEMs and Operators. And unfortunately, operators put in their released devices mainly what is good for them, and less of what is good for the user.

    Following the line above, the only way to deal with that is to diminish the range of freedom the operator has on some features, having less optional modules. This should be strongly felt in modules that Microsoft has been bashed on though they say it was optional and operator is responsible.

    Let’s agree that the Microsoft Bluetooth stack isn’t the king of functionality yet. I like its stability (specially compared to Widcomm’s memory leaks), but it is still missing many things. In this case, it should be unthinkable to remove a feature which is basic like DUN, or even let the operator remove it. That because the operator will put the one that leaves him less support calls. It doesn’t matter that many users want to use DUN.

    The result is that you don’t find DUN in almost any device since AKU3.

    Greg says "Bluetooth DUN is a legacy technology that is likely to disappear over time", and with that he agrees that it hasn’t disappeared yet and many peripherals still need it. So, my recommendation in this case, is that "MS should wait until a technology is dead to remove it from its products, instead of trying to artificially kill it by removing it when they decide it is "likely to disappear over time".

    To finish this: last time I have used DUN was one and a half years ago. When I compared Internet Sharing in the Trinity to what I used to do, I was thrilled. It is really a great improvement, and I will probably never use DUN again. But it should come as an addition, not as a substitution, since there are still many people that not only use it, but need it.

  9. MicroChasm says:

    Yes, don’t remove features until its use is actually dead. I know that MS thinks MS centric. Which might explain this miopic view.

    Other OS’s (like MacOSX) don’t support BT PAN and Mac users relied on BT DUN for cellphone connectivity. You broke my mobile connectivity solution when you removed BT DUN and made it an optional component for ODM/OEMs.

  10. First, thanks for the article – it explained a lot. This question has been bugging me (along with a lot of other WinMob users) right from the introduction of AKU3 and this is why I’ve written a full overview & comparison of the new model on the Pocket PC Magazine Expert Blog at http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&p=1415&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1  (also frontpaged by Pocket PC Thoughts).

    It’s also nice to know cell phone rebranders / manufacturers could include DUN if they wanted to.  You should consider *forcing* them to include it as the lack of DUN is, in my opinion, decidedly a problem.

    However, there are some things in the article I disagree with.

    1. You state "Bluetooth DUN is a legacy technology that is likely to disappear over time.  Especially when you look at the great experience Internet Sharing provides with Bluetooth PAN.  It also does not make sense for cellular radios to continue supporting a legacy interface just to enable Bluetooth DUN.  In the past we received a lot of criticism about Modem Link, especially related to usability.  For this reason we decided not to include it by default."

    I’d add that you don’t need Modem Link (see for example my related DUN tutorials – for example the one at http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&p=510&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1 ) for internet dial-up. This (the lack of need to do anything on the PPC for the dial-up) is a BIG advantage of the old, DUN-based approach. I use a GPRS+ connection from my notebook a LOT and found having to start internet sharing manually very tiring on the long run (this is why, finally, I’ve switched back to using an old, DUN-based Sony-Ericsson t68i for dial-up.)

    2. PAN client is NOT supported on many platforms; therefore, I wouldn’t call BT DUN a legacy technology. Microsoft BT stack on Windows Mobile (while the Broadcom BT stack, naturally, works great with the BT PAN-based connection sharing); several older (non-MS / Broadcom) BT stacks even on the desktop; the Nokia 770/800, Palm OS, older versions of Mac (fortunately, as has been also pointed out in my AKU3 article, never versions of Mac OS X already support PAN). Also, Linux can be harder to configure to use PAN than DUN (for example, on my Sharp Zaurus C760, I’ve never managed to make BT PAN connections work, unlike BT DUN ones).

    That is, it’d be REALLY great if Microsoft DID *force* phone manufacturers to make DUN available again, if it is already available. Not an optional package but an obligatory one.

  11. Paul says:

    Removing DUN also stops for your phone from connecting to GPS devices such as the tomtom1 which use DUN as the connection method.  Now I have no traffic alerts etc when I am driving.

  12. Paul says:

    While your listening to feedback, please will you pass onto your relevant colleagues that since active sync 4 you have removed without explanation the syncing of categories in contacts.

    Now in my mobile phone I have all of my business partners contacts and he has all of mine.  Quite pointless.  It’s an important feature that should come back.

    Sorry for hi-jacking this thread!

  13. Kenny Oldenskov, while I agree that A2DP could be better and more standards-compliant (many (but not all!) current A2DP stereo BT headphones don’t really support the MS BT stack, which does result in quality problems as is explained in, for example, http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&p=1744&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1 ), I’ve never encountered music resuming problems. Which headphones model are you having problems with?

  14. Alos, you may want to consider making DUN support a downloadable update for Windows Mobile. If some carriers don’t want their users to use DUN at all, then, there can even be some lock-out mechanism in the update so that it wouldn’t run on the devices released by these carriers.

    Such a move would REALLY improve the usefulness of the platforms. (Again, I have to point out that the DUN-based approach, on the long run, is WAY more convenient if you often connect/disconnect your client. With DUN, you don’t need to manually start IS all these cases. This is why I’ve reverted back to using a very old S-E phone for dial-up purposes.)

  15. Eugenia says:

    I blogged about your decision to remove DUN <a href="http://eugenia.blogsome.com/2007/04/17/dun-vs-pan/">here</a&gt;.

    While I prefer PAN instead of DUN, the point remains, Mac OS X, Linux and older Windows OSes with older BT software *WILL NOT* be able to use PAN (at least not easily).

    Yes, you should have added PAN, as you did, but you should have *ALSO KEPT* DUN. Let the new users all use PAN, but let the users who are RELYING on DUN because of the operating system and BT drivers they are running to also have the ability to do so.

  16. MikeCal says:


    ICS was added because it works better, not because it’s "cooler" (although ICS is pretty cool).  


    Microsoft is a very large company.  Vista and Windows Mobile are different divisions.  This blog is the Windows Mobile Team Blog, and, in general, is not read by the Vista team.  It’s unlikely that complaining about Vista here will be effective. I suggest you try a Vista blog instead.


    One way to phase a feature out is to continue to provide it, but make it no longer be in by default. That’s precisely what we did with DUN.


    By and large, AKUs exist because OEMs and Mobile Operators require features and aren’t willing to wait for the next major release.  We do AKUs to meet those requirements.  It’s extremely rare for us to add a feature to an AKU that wasn’t a direct requirement by an OEM or a Mobile Operator.  


    You’re correct that Mobile Operators and OEMs have more control over the OS that will be released than Microsoft does.  It’s a fact of life that Mobile Operators call the shots in the Mobile phone space.  Phones require their networks to run and are sold in their stores.  It’s natural that they’ll decide which devices to allow on their networks and which devices to sell in their stores.  For all people complain about MOs, I’m pretty sure that anyone who had spent the billions required to set up a network would want to have some control over what happens on it.


    DUN is "Legacy" because it relies on cellular radios that communicate with the OS via old Modem AT commands.  Higher speed cell radios are talking ethernet instead of serial AT commands.  Because these radios don’t speak AT, DUN doesn’t work on them.  Currently, the penetration of IP based radios is small.  But it’s growing and they will eventually completely replace AT based radios.

    So, we need to support ICS and we need to make it at least an option for the OEM to remove DUN.  

    As for OSes that don’t support modern standard protocols, they’ll either support PAN, or no one with a high speed phone is going to be able to talk to them.  No amount of us making DUN default or optional is going to change that.


  17. Eugenia says:

    Legacy or not, Win98, old Bluetooth dongle software, OSX and Linux requires DUN. You should never had removed it. You should just left it in there and let new people use PAN and old users to use DUN. Right now, you created one big mess by removing a major feature that exists on ALL cellphones.

  18. whydidnt says:

    As I see it, this is another case of MS deciding for us how to use technology, rather than the letting us decide for ourselves.  The WHOLE point of bluetooth is to connect to other "things". It exists for no other reason, yet, the Windows Mobile team decided that one of the primary methods currently supported by large numbers of devices for this purpose no longer was a necessary, and would only be installed as an extra. Much like how we don’t need a close button I guess, despite years of proof otherwise, or how we can no longer sync over WiFi, or how we can no longer chose to sync only specific categories, the list goes on and on.

    It doesn’t matter if it’s legacy technology and cellular radios don’t need modem commands.  What matters is that the devices that these cellular radios need to communicate with often require these commands!   Did all of our existing DUN devices vanish from the face of the earth when AKU3 when was released, of course not.

    I would hope the development team understands how users of the software actually use the devices when making these decisions, but then we see these types of decisions made over and over again. As a long time PPC/WM user, I can tell you right now I am fed up with you constantly removing features without thinking of me, and my needs. I currently own 8–yes 8 WM devices, but I suspect I may have purchased my last. I am finding myself less and less attracted to this platform as the WM team contineus to try and dumb it down to the lowest common denominator.

  19. MikeCal says:

    Eugenia and whydidnt, we changed a feature from "in by default" to "optional."  We’ve already said that we’re putting it back to "in by default."  Is there something else we can do?  

    As for supporting DUN forever, I must not have made myself clear.  Long term, DUN is going away because high speed phones can’t do it.  This has nothing whatsoever to do with any decision Microsoft is making.  I assume you’re not saying, "The entire phone industry should stop making high speed data phones because my Mac requires DUN."  But, if not, what ARE you saying?


  20. Mark says:

    I’m afraid I’m going to have to side with everyone who is ranting about Microsoft’s tendency to remove more features than it adds with every new Windows Mobile release. I was very disappointed to find out that my new smartphone doesn’t have Bluetooth DUN, since I need that to connect with my PC and my Axim Pocket PC.

    Why does Microsoft insist on removing features with every new release? Every new version of Activesync has more features removed than added, I can’t sync Money 2007 with my Pocket PC, I can’t do sync over wifi, and now I can’t do dialup with my phone. Looks like WM6/AS 4.5 will bring yet another litany of "Nope you can’t do that anymore."

    I also find your comment very disingenuous:

    You’re correct that Mobile Operators and OEMs have more control over the OS that will be released than Microsoft does.  It’s a fact of life that Mobile Operators call the shots in the Mobile phone space.  Phones require their networks to run and are sold in their stores.  It’s natural that they’ll decide which devices to allow on their networks and which devices to sell in their stores.  For all people complain about MOs, I’m pretty sure that anyone who had spent the billions required to set up a network would want to have some control over what happens on it.

    The problem is that while mobile operators do unfortunately control a large part of the average user’s mobile phone experience, it is not the case in every market – phones sold in Europe, Australia, Middle East etc are mostly sold non-restricted and with most features left enabled. You could have handled it differently and you know it – instead of making DUN an optional extra, you could have made Bluetooth PAN an optional extra. It doesn’t make sense how you can make an established technology optional. At the very least, you could let users download a patch to enable Bluetooth DUN functionality. Just because a technology is probably going to die, you don’t try and kill it off by not letting the users decide for themselves.

    AT&T can’t control what I plug into my landline RJ-11 jack, why should they have such strict control what I plug my SIM card into? You won’t find any sympathy for the carriers here, sorry.

  21. MikeCal, great to hear you’ll make DUN mandatory again.  (Will this update be releeased for all current WM5 AKU3 / WM6 devices?) DUN IS currently a must and OEM’s MUST understand this. Without DUN, you can’t have for example other Windows Mobile devices use other AKU3+ WinMob devices as dial-up modems (and the list, of course, continues: the Nokia 770/800, older, non-MS/non-Broadcom BT sticks and CF/SD cards for the desktop, some flawors of Linux etc.)

    Also, please PLEASE do redesign BT PAN / Internet Sharing in order NOT to have to manually start it each time (!) we want to use the mobile as a modem. This issue, currently, greatly hampers its usability.

    Finally, any plans to implement full BT PAN support (not only for IS) in the MS BT stack as is the case with the Broadcom BT stack? (I’ve also elaborated on this stuff pretty thoroughly in my article so I won’t list in here what I’m referring to.)

  22. Fritzly says:

    In your statement I noted a lot of references to the "Carriers" which want this and do not want that.

    Please keep in mind that the US is the market where Carriers can dictate to users what to buy etc. In more mature markets, like Europe, phones are mostly bought in stores and are Sim free.

    personally I never bought a subsized, crippled phone and I have no intention to do it in the future.

    The updates about the OS should be handled by Windows Update and not by carriers or hardware manifacturers because these subjects have no incentive to extend the life of a device they have sold, actually the opposite.

    Dell does not rule the updates I can install on my computer and the same policy should be applied to PD and Smartphones.  

  23. HelioD says:

    MikeCal, great to see it will be in by default.

    The result of the previous situation was that the phone was closed for work with any non-MS computer.

    This will fix the situation. Good to hear.

  24. EricT says:

    Recently bought a new Ipaq to pair with my Blackjack and had to return it since it doesn’t support PAN. Kind of ironic that one MS powered device can’t talk to another. Bought a Nokia N800 which runs Linux. Doesn’t support PAN out of the box however it can be hacked to. The decision to remove DUN was a bad one.

  25. whydidnt says:

    MikeCal: You asked "We’ve already said that we’re putting it back to "in by default."  Is there something else we can do?"

    Yes, you can release a patch that will enable DUN support on AKU3 devices.

    And while I’m requesting things that will never happen, you can re-enable category syncing in ActiveSync/Mobile Device Center.  I’m very curious to hear an explanation of the benefit of removing this feature?  Was that also too complicated for users to understand? Sorry to be sarcastic, but the too complicated argument doesn’t hold water, if it’s too complicated users will ignore it anyway.

  26. Paul says:

    whydidnt:  What was the reason given for removing category syncing?  I need it back urgently.  Complicated? Never!!  You checked a box and it synced that category.  Simple.

  27. doug@maxoutput.com says:

    For the most part I do like the way that Internet Sharing works; it is very easy.  But I don’t like that I have to go through so many steps on the phone to turn it on.

    I wish there was a way to have the phone turn on USB Internet Sharing by default, so every time I plug in a USB cable to a computer it provides an internet connection.  I sync only via Exchange and the only time I ever connect my phone to my computer via USB it is so I can connect to the Internet.

    For Bluetooth, the phone should be able to tell devices that it supports PAN, and automatically connect to the Internet whenever a PAN connection is requested, instead of having to set it up on the phone each time.

    For legacy applications I would love to see DUN brought back too.  As mentioned above, Macs and Linux don’t support PAN so devices with IS only enabled they have no way to connect.

    The other concern I have (though it isn’t a big one) is that connections using Internet Sharing use private IP addresses rather than the IP provided by the carrier.  In the case of my T-Mobile Dash, I pay for the VPN plan and actually get a real public IP address, but because the IP seen by my computer is private some applications just don’t work.  Fortunately the biggest one that would cause problems actually does work (PPTP VPN), so this isn’t a huge issue for me.  Just kind of annoying that I am paying for a real IP address but I can’t use it.

  28. Pete says:

    "Dell does not rule the updates I can install on my computer and the same policy should be applied to PD and Smartphones."

    Truer words were never said. Dell doesn’t tell me that the brand spanking new PC I bought with XP won’t be updated to run Vista, why should the carriers get to decide what OS updates their phones are eligible for? I myself would love to have WM6 on my Q, but it looks like Motorola, Sprint and Verizon are backing out in order to sell more new phones.


    My men’s rights blog: http://petepatriarch.blogspot.com/

  29. djdj, yes, you get a private address (as on any LAN’s), which may indeed be problematic. However, you can configure many (PC) clients (for example, most p2p apps) to report any other IP address as the "real" IP address of the machine it’s running on. If you do provide your (that is, your WinMob phone’s) public address (by overriding your private one), even incoming requests will work on your public address (IS does a full port forwarding – as has also been explained in my all-in-one AKU3 Dial-Up Bible ( http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&p=1415&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1 )).

    You may want to check this out – your particular apps may also let for supplying another IP address.

  30. MikeCal says:

    Pete, imagine if you had a Dell laptop with a special piece of display hardware that only Dell knew how to write the driver for.  And, imagine if the XP driver for that hardware didn’t work on Vista.  Finally, imagine if Dell didn’t write a Vista version of their display driver for that laptop.  At that point, Dell most certainly DID rule which updates you can put on your computer.  Or, at least, you’d be welcome to upgrade to Vista, you just wouldn’t see anything on the screen.

    That’s the siutaion in the phone space.  The drivers are OEM-specific, and if they don’t provide updated drivers, then you can’t upgrade.  Sure, you could put a standard WM6 image on your device, but it wouldn’t boot.


  31. windowsmobile says:

    I wanted to address some of the feedback I’ve seen so far.  Just a few comments for now.

    1) BT PAN OS Compatibility

    According to various web sites, Mac OS 10.4.9 supports Bluetooth PAN.  The "standard" Linux Bluetooth stack (BlueZ) supports Bluetooth PAN (and at one time I actually set this up and tested it).

    2) Will MS ship a CAB file to install DUN on WM5 AKU3 devices?

    There are some platform specific bits that OEMs typically need to set up when they ship a device with PAN.  So it may not be a solution that works on all devices.  I’ll look into it though.  I believe there may also be some 3rd-party DUN solutions for certain devices.

    3) Did we also disable DUN client too?

    We still support DUN "client" (aka: terminal) role on PPC/Pro/Classic SKUs.  This allows you to connect to modem devices (such as the one manufactured by Socket) or any other device supporting DUN "server".



  32. Pete says:

    "Pete, imagine if you had a Dell laptop with a special piece of display hardware that only Dell knew how to write the driver for.  And, imagine if the XP driver for that hardware didn’t work on Vista.  Finally, imagine if Dell didn’t write a Vista version of their display driver for that laptop.  At that point, Dell most certainly DID rule which updates you can put on your computer.  Or, at least, you’d be welcome to upgrade to Vista, you just wouldn’t see anything on the screen."

    This is where I bow to your superior knowledge. I don’t have any idea about the hardware in question, but the way I was thinking is this:

    – Windows Mobile would ship in a CD just like a regular OS, with Professional and Standard versions separate.

    – As WM installs on your device, it checks to see what drivers it needs and installs only those on the device since all the drivers are bundled in the Windows Mobile installation CD.

    – As it turns out which manufacturers don’t write drivers for their devices, we stop buying from those manufacturers. Just like if I buy a phone at the shop I know whether I’m buying a Samsung or a Sanyo, so too I’ll know whether I’m buying a Motorola or an HTC and which company is good about releasing drivers.

    Take care,


  33. R says:

    I tried to connect an Ipaq 5915 Windows Mobile device with my Samsung Blackjack (the Ipaq would like to use the connectivity to provide traffic updates for it’s internal GPS ) and no go. That leaves me with the rather non elegant solution of having to use a non-windows bluetooth phone to connect to the Ipaq.

  34. MikeCal says:

    In every single WM device on the market, the OEMs write the drivers.  There are no standard drivers to install off the CD because there is no standard hardware.  I’m sure we’ll get to a point sometime in the future where the hardware standardizes, but phones are advancing too quickly these days for that to happen. The PC industry was just like this at this point in it’s life cycle.  And, at that time, you relied on the OEM to provide the drivers for you. If they didn’t, you couldn’t upgrade.  


  35. "windowsmobile" (see "According to various web sites, Mac OS 10.4.9 supports Bluetooth PAN."): – yes, it does – it has been confirmed by me too (see http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&title=latest_version_of_mac_os_x_and_wm5_aku3_&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1 if interested).

    "windowsmobile" (see "I believe there may also be some 3rd-party DUN solutions for certain devices."): unfortunately, it seems it’s only the Blackjack  that is AKU3+ and still supports DUN – but only over USB, not Bluetooth (see http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1041555&page=2&pp=15 for more info  on this q). Also, there are no third-party DUN servers for Windows Mobile (I’ve been searching for such a solutions too – see for example http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&p=1673&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1 )

    "R" (see "I tried to connect an Ipaq 5915 Windows Mobile device with my Samsung Blackjack (the Ipaq would like to use the connectivity to provide traffic updates for it’s internal GPS ) and no go. That leaves me with the rather non elegant solution of having to use a non-windows bluetooth phone to connect to the Ipaq.") you mean the hw6915? Strange it doesn’t work – the hw6915 has the Widcomm BT stack with full BT PAN client functionality – strange it didn’t work (the same configuration – with other Widcomm-based Windows Mobile clients – worked great with me). How did you try to set up the PAN?

  36. Frankenbike says:

    Up until now, I was considering buying the upcoming PPC 6800 from Sprint. It is supposedly coming with WM5 AKU 3.3.

    It sounds like I should wait and see if they ever update the phones to WM6.

    So whatever the reasoning is for the DUN decisions, it’s costing the carrier the sale. I can wait to update my phone. I kept my last one for 4 years and it worked fine.

    I agree with everyone who says that there should be some way for Microsoft to deal directly with the public when it comes to smartphones. Microsoft can hardly be a company that should be a beggar at the table in this industry. It’s acting like a desparate upstart trying to get a foot in the door.

    The great thing that MS did in the 80s, was to decouple the OS from the equipment. That needs to happen again with smartphones.

    If Microsoft can’t provide consumer needs to the consumer, maybe it’s a sign that it’s time for government intervention to deal with the cell carriers and take away their equipment monopoly, as happened with land carriers in the 80s.

  37. KS Lim says:

    Hi Greg,

    It has been enlightening for me to read your posting on BT DUN and ICS.

    The reason I’m posting here is bcos I am having intermittent connecton problems to the Internet using ICS on my brand new SGH-i600. My Internet connection works for a few minutes, then I encounter connection problems for a few minutes and then connection is restored and this cycle seems to continue perpetually.

    When I hit this problem, I immediately used back my Nokia 6630 for DUN connection and the Internet connection was stable. So, I don’t think it’s my service providers RF problem but may have something to do with ICS.

    I did not have such problems previously when I was using my Nokia 6630 (Symbian 8.0) to connect to the Internet via BT modem or USB modem thru DUN.

    I access the Internet thru my PC using my mobile phone as a modem as I am subscribed to my service provider’s unlimited data plan (EDGE network).

    I’ve been scouring the Net in vain to find out if anyone has the same problem as me using SGH-i600 and how the problem can be resolved.

    Hope you could help me out here. Thanks.

  38. KS Lim, did you give a try to for example pinging any Web site in the background? It MIGHT fix the issue.

    Also see http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&title=how_to_combat_automatic_disconnecting_fr&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1 . Note that "ping" is built into desktop operating systems; that is, you won’t need to install third-party apps (like vxUtil on Windows Mobile) in order to make permanent pinging work.

    Also, if it’s an IP issue (for example, the SGH is constantly trying to give you a new private IP though DHCP), could you check out your local IP every time you enounter connection problems? Do you see "Acquiring network address" showing DHCP is in the process of giving you a new IP?

  39. JasperM says:


    Would it be possible to distribute the DUN via the Windows Mobile update feature in WM6?  Or is this not what the Windows Update feature was designed for?

    This would solve the problem of someone getting a WM6 devices with an AKU previous to whatever AKU implemented the DUN Profile is implemented in.  It would also give the user the ability to choose if they wanted DUN or not.


  40. MikeCal says:


    re: "Microsoft can hardly be a company that should be a beggar at the table in this industry."

    Yet we are.  Power in one industry does not translate to power in another.  


    Greg is the real guy to ask.  His posts show up as being from "WindowsMobile" because he just started posting and we didn’t make him an admin on the blog yet.  But he’s the BTh guy.  He said above that he’s looking into making a CAB install for DUN.  

    As for whether or not this is what Windows Update was desgined for, I’m not sure.  The main goal of Windows Update is bug fixes and security updates.  I suppose it should be possible to do new features there as well.  But I suspect you don’t really care if you get the feature via Windows Update or some other way.  You just want the feature back.  I think Greg is better off focusing on the feasability of providing a CAB file than figuring out how to distribute it via Windows Update.


  41. JasperM says:


    Doesn’t the Windows Update feature write the updates to ROM?  That would be the only slight advantage that I could see, in case of the needs for a hard reset.

    But I believe the end is the same, the user gets the functionality they desire.  Its great to see that there are avenues for the average user to be able to comment on something as low level as adding features into Windows Mobile.  The fact that you listen to comments, both good and bad, bode well for the Windows Mobile group, and the responsiveness to the community that you do have.


  42. lapimate says:

    How would the removal of BT DUN affect mobile dial-up access to landline numbers via GSM CSD or HSCSD via Smartphone?

    This service is used not only for mobile access to ISPs (possibly independent of the mobile network provider) where GPRS or 3G is not available but also for data telemetry to landline connections and for wireless alarm systems independent of connection via the IP network of the mobile ‘phone ISP. (The mobile ‘phone network provides the interface to the PSTN.)

    As others have implied above, to leave the decision whether to include BT DUN in the hands of mobile ‘phone providers appears to be promoting monopolistic behaviour. Especially where as seems to be the case in the USA but not so much internationally, ‘phones are often provided by and locked to the mobile network providers.

  43. Filed under: Windows Mobile , Misc Something that has probably caused quite a few Windows Mobile 5 customers

  44. Jeper says:

    and another question, how can I remove internet sharing(IS) if I found it conflict with my application?

  45. rjoek934 says:

    Thank you for the article.  I echo everyone’s continued criticism — the need to initiate the PAN connection from the client and server (phone) is ridiculous.  Please IMMEDIATELY provide a patch either to restore DUN by default or enable client side (only) ICS (can this really be that hard for the almighty MS to do??)  ICS is good, but it doesn’t make up for this oversight.

    The only new thing I can add is a response to:

    "2) Uninterrupted connectivity: ICS can continue to be connected when you get an incoming voice call.  Modem Link will give up the cellular radio for the phone to answer the voice call.  Internet Sharing will stay connected in this scenario.  On some cellular networks it is not able to send or receive data.  The cellular network needs to support simultaneous voice/data to provide the best user experience.  This is supported on 3G networks."

    I haven’t used ‘Modem Link’, but BT DUN *does* support simultaneous voice and data on 3G networks.  I had been using this with my Cingular LG CU500 for several months, works like a champ.  Then I bought a Blackjack and now I must perform 3 steps to connect.  BIG bummer.

    Thanks, Ryan

  46. Foxbat121 says:

    Microsoft’s flagship OS, Vista, completely failed on BT PAN support with Windows Mobile. On my BlackJack, I used to be able to use BT PAN in XP to connect to internet. Now, I upgraded the same PC to Vista, the PC just can’t find BlackJack as BT PAN device anymore.

  47. This is so lame!! I’m now no longer able to use any online services from my TomTom GO 910i device….

  48. jpp says:

    Let’s go further. Suppose I can use TomTom device with a WM6 phone because:

    – TomTom delivers an update that support BT PAN

    – I run TomTom on a PDA that already supports BT PAN

    Now, I will have to fumble with the phone WHILE DRIVING every time the connexion is dropped because my car went through a poor signal area and the brand new super cool ICS (damn it) simply can’t let the client initiate the connexion by itself.

    Well, just my 2pc: please tell your developpers that MOBILE devices are to be used by really mobile users and not by people that are comfortably seated in their office all day long. Thanks!

  49. duh says:

    "Eugenia and whydidnt, we changed a feature from "in by default" to "optional."  We’ve already said that we’re putting it back to "in by default."  Is there something else we can do?"

    You said you are putting it back in WM6 AKU. Well, guess what, only a handful of people even have WM6 stuff. All of us who are pissed have WM5 devices that we (foolishly) updated to AKU3. Make AKU3.1 with DUN back by default in addition to PAN, and shove it down the carriers throats. The only reason DUN went away is you turned it off by default. The carriers don’t even look at the options.

  50. MikeCal says:

    First, it’s not true that mobile operators don’t pay attention to this stuff.  Second, we’re in no position whatsoever to require that anyone make use of an AKU we release.  For the most part, new devices pick up the newest AKU, but existing devices generally don’t update to it.  

    Just telling us to have power we don’t is like telling us to learn to fly.  Yes, I’d love to be able to flap my arms and fly home at night, but no matter what angry comments I get on the blog, I’m not going to suddenly be able to do it.


  51. derka derka says:

    "First, it’s not true that mobile operators don’t pay attention to this stuff."

    The OEMs shove this trash out the door as fast as possible. It boots? Ship It!

    I’ve seen production devices that in some USB modes throw back strings like "PROTOTYPE — REMEMBER TO CHANGE THIS" and Microsoft’s VID during enumeration.

    I’ve seen a device that didn’t have a icon for CAB files.

    I’ve seen devices that pop up messages like "Not yet implemented" when certain buttons are pushed.

    I’ve seen devices with piles of linker output files (maps files, sometimes even debug symbols) in Windows.

    All these are examples of slop that takes about 2 seconds to notice. The fact that EVERY device I’ve used has some little thing wrong is a pretty clear indication that they just don’t care.

    Given that, you do have power. You set the defaults and they take those. If you can’t understand that, then you are retarded.

  52. Xman says:

    Hi MikeCal,

     One feature I used to use all the time with Bluetooth DUN is that I was able to connect to it from my laptop or another smartphone without having to enable it. So I could just keep my phone on my pocket and connect it to it. With ICS I have to go in an start it and then I am able to connect to it. If the connection was broken by any reason I would have to do it again. I am assuming this cannot be added to ICS.

  53. LJinFLA says:

    So if it is just a matter of turning it back on, why not share it with us (leak it to the web)?

  54. Raj says:

    I used BT DUN w/ my car kit – would love to see it back – I have actually switched to my Nok phone while in the car…

  55. Art says:

    Clarification?  2) Uninterrupted connectivity: ICS can continue to be connected when you get an incoming voice call.  Modem Link will give up the cellular radio for the phone to answer the voice call.

    Is this correct?  I had thought DUN was used as the protocol used just between the PC and the phone; it’s up to the phone to decide how to connect to the Internet/provider.  I would like to understand.  Thanks.

  56. David Campbell says:

    This must be costing sales of Windows Mobile devices. I’ve just got a Samsung i600 – a lovely phone but it’s going to have to go back as it won’t work with my Nokia N800 or Tomtom.

    So, the Samsung gets returned and I’ll be looking at getting a Nokia Symbian device.

    You just can’t abandon a technology which is in so widespread use! – something that I think Nokia realise and Microsoft don’t…

  57. Paul says:

    ICS Sharing is great on my PPC6700 (homemade AKU 3.5 upgrade on the internet that does work)  – it must be performing NAT – Why not allow us to leverage the ability of the built in 802.11b stack by allowing the creation of an ad-hoc network and installation of a DHCP server on the device?

    Can this be done manually in any ip configuration way?

    Currently all wifi-sharing implementations out there involve using a java socks proxy.

    Wallah, instant wifi hotspot.

  58. Chuckie says:

    I dread to think how many sales have been lost because of this one issue – I know at least 9 people who have decided against a WM Smartphone because they *needed* a phone that supported the BT DUN profile. So they bought Nokia/SonyEricsson instead.

    Making BT DUN a non-default option was just asking the OEMs or carriers to drop this feature – hiding behind this argument is disengenuous at best. As already stated, Microsoft should not drop a feature until the feature is at Death’s door – in this case you effectively dropped the feature by making it non-default, yet BT DUN is by far the most common form of inter-device connectivity.

    OEMs and carriers will take their lead from Microsoft in most cases, and if they see you have made an option non-default and are telling them "the future is ICS" then the OEMs and carriers are not going to enable the feature and spend more time testing what they are being told is a legacy feature.

    Let this be a lesson to you – don’t make a feature a non-default option until it’s truly dead.

  59. helge says:

    I have tomtom go device which only supports DUN.

    Paying tomtom 40€ a year for traffic service and my phone carrier 10€ a month for data connection.

    Thanks to Microsoft that i can not use this service anymore with my new WM5 device, but still paying it…

    When will be an uptate availible to add BT DUN again?

  60. LJP says:

    So come on, tell us when you can get this back.

    Even better, we users out here are really hurting and losing money everyday because of this. What we really need are instructions to add this back, or even better, a cab file that automatically adds this back to our phones that can be run from Extended_ROM so that even if we have to hard rest, or upgrade our OS again it will be applied.  Why can’t Microsoft offer this kind of patch support to its paying users. Any other software company would support their software in this way.


  61. mccreath says:

    I am not seeing many answers to how TomTom users will be able to function going forward.

    TomTom has a product placement in the millions globally are RELY on Bluetooth DUN connections for it’s services.

    I have a TomTom910, a product that is less than 6 months old in the market place and yet my new phone doesn’t support Bluetooth DUN… that is just bizarre!!

    There is no support from TomTom on this one, and no answer from MS? Who owns this issue, and how are the millions of TomTom service customers going to justify the purchase of a new phone when it won’t support their existing device…

    If you ask me WM6 and WM5 AKU3 are already potential revenue losers in the market place, or at least the uptake will be much slower that anticipated.



  62. mccreath says:

    … just so you guys know, I had my team send back the 18 devices we had in for QA for a full refund from the reseller due to this issue.

    I’m sure we are not the only global corporate who has product road maps and compatibility governance…

  63. Sure says:

    My Samsung Blackjack has to go because it refuses to connect to my Garmin Nuvi. There should be some solution to this issue … cant just give up the technology that I use very daily.

  64. Photon says:

    Microsoft have really messed up here by removing the DUN profile arbitrarily!

    My Sat Nav is currently useless for communication with my new phone because of this, so now I’m going to have to return the Windows Mobile phone and go for something else, probably Symbian based because the latest one still supports Bluetooth DUN!

    Looks like they’ve gone silent and there’s no fix in the works too.

  65. extro says:

    Tried to contact Cingular/Samsung. No body helps. I wonder if I paid for Bluetooth DUN when I purchased a Samsung Blackjack. If I paid for it, then why am I unable to use it. Previously had a Sony Ericsson that I used to connect to my GPS device seamlessly. Using Blackjack, I can see a caller calling IN, but neither can answer the call nor access my address book. Don’t know what’s going on in here. Some body should be able to help. ICS could be better but what is the use if I cannot use both? Microsoft should provide an update or something to set the issue right. Microsoft – Kindly do help!

  66. Paul J says:

    Same here!

    I had my TomTom 500 all connected great with my M3100, updated to AKU3 to find it bloody useless!!!!!

    Why on earth did you remove BT DUN??????????

    I guess I’ll probably buy a ‘symbian’ based phone and move away from the Windows platform – thanks Microsoft, from a real Microsoft Fan!

  67. syncluz says:

    I don’t buy the explanation that DUN *has* to be removed because newer radios will have an ethernet rather than serial interface.

    I believe you that the new radios may not understand AT commands any more, but I have a hard time believing Microsoft cannot write (or re-use, take a look at your WinModem stuff) a piece of software that speaks AT commands to the DUN RFCOMM channel and controls the new radio via IP.

    Imho, DUN is essential for brining older equipment on-line (most newer equipment has it’s own radio anyway).

  68. extro says:

    I do agree with "LJinFLA". If BT DUN is present and disabled, why not help the users turn it on?

  69. Yann says:

    Like other i have a TomTom 910 and i’ll probabilly buy a symbian smartphone to use with. Tank a lot MS !

  70. Ryan says:

    I can’t get Internet Sharing to work on my HTC 3125 I just upgraded.  With USB the 3125 connects and I see an interface on my PC waiting for an IP address.  It never gets an IP address.  With BT PAN it connects but without an IP.  My 3125 wont’ give me an IP address!!!!

  71. Guillaume says:

    I was the happy owner of an HP Travel Companion, a very nice navigator device (wm5 based). I was getting seemless internet connectibity through my SonyEricsson phone.

    Well, I thought I was making a smart move by getting a BlackJack (another device that is wm5 based).

    In the end I cannot connect anymore those two devices. Here is what strikes me:

    – They are both new (less than 2 monhts old)

    – They are both using the same OS (wm5)

    – They both have BlueTooth

    – They can provide serices useful to each other

    Still it does not work. The BT stack on the PDA/GPS does not support PAN (only DUN). The BlackJack only support PAN (no DUN).

    This an "uncomfortable" consequence (trying to stay within the terms of use here…) of having MS give to much liberty to the MOs…

  72. invite2Islam says:

    WM users are a tough crowd.  Once I got ICS to work between my Dash and my Mac, I was really happy.  It is a little disconcerting to think that if I choose to upgrade my WM to WM6, I might actually switch to a lower quality protocol!  It might not happen — since T-Mobile uses GPRS, and that may not require dial-up as such…  But would it be so rotten an idea to put both options on the CD-ROM and let users install the one they want if they do not like the options selected by their carrier?

  73. extro says:

    MS – We need to know if a solution is possible or not. If it is not possible, then what’s stopping it – and if it is possible then how soon ?

  74. extro says:

    That’s it. I made a switch to a different phone. WM5 is gone now – for good. Will never ever buy one again. Will make sure to notify BT DUN users (family/friends) about WM5’s lack of support. The response over here damaged MS’s good image that I once had.

    MS – You cannot dictate as to what technology I am supposed to use. You just cannot do it. I am at a loss now, but will make sure that people around me will not be in the future.

  75. MikeCal says:

    extro, I’m sorry to see you go.  I hope your new phone meets your needs.


  76. extro says:


    I did not mean to be harsh, but trust me, the experience has been very frustrating. I am required to travel a lot and I use the GPS as a hands free device.

  77. MikeCal says:

    We’ve heard loud and clear the message that people want to keep DUN.  And, as was said before, we had already decided to make it a default again before this thread was started.  

    I would like to know more about your situation, though.  Did you have a WM5 device that had BTH DUN in it, and then upgraded to WM5 AKU3?  Or did you buy a new AKU3-based WM5 device only to find that it didn’t have DUN?  


  78. extro says:


    I had purchased a device that did not have BT DUN (Cingular Blackjack). Realistically, is a solution possible?

    Except for the DUN part, the phone (WM5) was really cool.

    – extro.

  79. MikeCal says:

    The solution we’d LIKE to do is bundle up BT DUN into an end user installable and give it to you.  Unfortunately, that’s not something we can do.  We have partners who specifically remove DUN support.  If we were to just put an installable on our web site somewhere, we’d be subverting our own partners.  That’s a good way to stop having partners.

    Cingular and Samsung, however, have the ability to solve the problem for you.  Remember that we still ship DUN to the OEMs.  We just stopped making it be in by default.  If they want to put it in, we’re all for them doing so.  

    So, conceptually, Cingular or Samsung could release either an updated ROM with DUN in it, or they could release a means for you to install just the DUN componet yourself.  If they ask us for help doing either of those things, we’ll help them.


  80. extro says:

    Thanks so much Mike.

    In my opinion the request should now go to companies like Cingular instead of Samsung. Because Samsung devices are not the only ones affected.

    I shall consult Cingular from my side and do all that is possible. If needed I might have to link Cingular to this post.

    Thanks again.

  81. Andrew in HK says:

    Mike and Greg – thanks for addressing the DUN topic.

    As for me, I was very happy to find out that ICS and the OSX update made it easy to connect my MacBook Pro to my Dopod D810 (HTC Trinity) which has HSDPA service. However, I agree with one or two other posts that having to Initiate on one and Confirm on the other is a bit of a nuisance, especially since I had to go through the process of pairing them in the first place, so you would think that the PC should be able to direct the phone to connect. Sorry if this is a little off-topic, but is there any likelihood that some sort of one-way initiated connection could be possible at some point using the PAN?

  82. Gilberto Fres says:

    The only think that I don’t like about ICS is that I can’t connect to my work computer via VPN.  Using Cisco VPN 5.0 I can’t connect to the work network but I can’t see any network’s computers.  I use remote desktop and I got an error "Computer not found".

  83. extro says:


    I did contact Cingular and Samsung and they were not of help. When I say Bluetooth DUN, they are asking me to turn Bluetooth ON in the settings. Ofcourse Bluetooth was ON all the while.

    After about 1 hour, they diverted me to Samsung Level 1 support and when even they could not answer, they connected me to Samsung Level 2 support. Samsung Level 2 guy would not understand my question and would not give me a Level 3 number. They tell me that they dont have a direct number and I dont believe that.

    I spent nearly 2 worthless hours on the phone. Will it be possible for your team to initiate a connection through your partners by diverting them to this post?

  84. Eric says:

    I have the same issue than Gilberto Fres. I can’t connect to my work computer via VPN.  Using Cisco VPN 5.0 I can connect to the VPN gateway(tunnel is up) but there is no traffic.  So i’m looking for an older rom for a tytyn which contain old (but running) Wmodem. If you got an idea I really appreciate you share it.

  85. Eric says:

    Finally with an upgrade to WM6, VPN tunnel is up and traffic ok.

  86. Richard Price says:

    Absolutely agree with the comments – I have a TomTom Rider (the motorbike version) with Traffic etc, upgraded to AKU3 – and no DUN

    Even if TomTom supported ICS how on earth am I going to turn it on while I’m riding my motorbike !!!

  87. peramikic says:

    Look what I found on Samsungs support page for i607

    "Bluetooth Modem (DUN/PAN) – The BlackJack does have Bluetooth 2.0 w/EDR.

    As a result, the DUN/PAN profile can be utilized when a successfully Bluetooth connection to a computer has been established. It is important to note that different Bluetooth vendor require different drivers to operate different profiles. Please consult with the vendor for proper Bluetooth driver configuration on the PC if there are difficulties. Since the ICS client is not accessible by default, this method of connectivity is unsupported by Samsung"

    So, false advertisment or just stupidity not knowing the difference betwing DUN and PAN.

    Direct URL http://erms.samsungusa.com/customer/sea/jsp/faqs/faqs_view.jsp?SITE_ID=22&PG_ID=557&PROD_SUB_ID=558&PROD_ID=751&AT_ID=79165

  88. pera mikic says:

    By the way, notice the last sentence in that quote – ICS in not officialy supported.

  89. DanM says:

    Working is a Support Centre for a manufacturer of Windows Mobile devices, and having one myself, I have seen both sides of this.

    Personally I use my handset as a network link regularly.  As a user experience I believe that ICS is much "better".  It is fater, easier to use and seems more reliable.

    DUN also has is good features, allowing extra useability.  How ever with DUN you need to setup a connection, have the details from you network and spend time on it.  Then you find it is not connecting and that you need to call support.

    From the support side of things, modem connection calls have halved in number and also in length for ICS compared to DUN.  So from this I can see why the OEM’s have opted for ICS over DUN.

    But then from a support engineer’s point of view I am torn.  Yes customers have a simpler user experience, have less need to call support, but then some customer and systems require DUN.

    Many VPN systems authenticate a PC from it’s IP address, where as on ICS, it is the device with the IP, not the PC.  Hence a user can no longer log into their comapny VPN.

    ICS is definately a good thing, and the way for the future, but should not be forced onto customers and compaines overnight.  They should be aloowed to "play" with the new technology and delvelop their understanding and systems over time.

  90. Martyn says:

    Oh great. Just bought a new WM6 phone and now I find I can’t use it with my TomTom because MS has decided not to install DUN by default.

    Why not just include both by default?

    Are you saying the two technologies cannot co-exist on the same device?

    Why not let us decide which technology to use?

    Why, because MS has yet again failed to understand the impact of a ‘useability’ decision. Then to say its the service providers fault for not adding DUN is grossly unfair. They DIDN’T HAVE TO install it before so why would they intentionally add it now.

    It’s your operating system, take some responsibility for it and your mistakes! Remember, its not the fact that you make mistakes that costs you customers, its the way you fail to put your mistakes right! Situations like this are a golden opportunity to get customers on your side!

    Sorry for the rant folks but I, like many others here, am sick of this!

  91. extro says:

    MikeCal said:  

    ~~ That’s a good way to stop having partners.


    But the present way will make you (WM) stop having customers. It is currently disabled on my phone because MS wanted to disable it – the way I understand. Samsung and Cingular will not help. If customers are any important, I am sure you (WM) will figure a way out.

    Did MS fail to observe that BT could be used in more ways that it assumes people use it?

  92. I’m jaw dropped. This is the most ridiculous decision Microsoft has yet to make. MikeCal, your comment to simply nudge our carriers to issue a fix is a sad deterrent from the real situation — Microsoft and some carriers want to team up to put us, the clientelle, into helpless situations that will eventually require us to upgrade, spend money for "premium services", and re-enforce your position as the capitalistic power dog.

    Our carriers don’t listen to us. And you respond by saying that this is out of Microsoft’s control. Absolute garbage!

    Can’t you see that we’re all helpless? Send us a fix and get it over with. Talk kindly with your partners and show them how we’re all suffering. Show them how THEY will be losing their customers. If your partners still refuse to allow you to issue a fix, then are these really partners you want affecting your business? Do you really want these partners affecting your fate? They’re reflecting poorly on Microsoft (assuming this is out of Microsoft’s "control").

    I’ve defended Microsoft for many years against UNIX and OSX fan boys for years. I’ve about had it though. If this doesn’t get remedied soon, or at least a reasonable announcement of when it will be remedied, I’m finished with PocketPC and WM devices.


  93. MikeCal says:

    Kevin, we’ve said this before, but I’ll say it again.  We screwed up.  We shouldn’t have changed the DUN default.  In part due to all the feedback here, we’ve chosen to fix our mistake by going back to the original setting of having DUN in by default.  But we can’t go back in time and undo our mistake.  All we can do is fix it in the preset.  Since there’s a lag between what we do and what you see, that means it will get fixed in the future.

    I know it’s hard to imagine Microsoft being powerless in a situation, but it’s true here.  You literally have more power with the Mobile Operators than I do.  You pay them money, and you can take your business elsewhere.  That makes you important to them.  We don’t buy anything from them.  We SELL stuff to them.  That gives them all of the power.  We can’t tell them what to do.  They tell US what to do.  If we don’t like it, they’ll gladly just replace our phones with Symbian ones and keep doing business.  

    They don’t do anything with malicious intent.  They’re running a business.  If we’re good for their business, they’ll work with us.  If we’re bad for their business, they’ll stop.  This is how things are done, and it’s how things SHOULD be done.  

    What that does to our reputation is irrelevant.  

    Our devs are willing to put together a CAB file to let you install DUN directly.  However, on checking if we could, we were told that some of the Mobile Operators would be very angry if we did.  This is because some of them actively remove it.  For those MOs, it wouldn’t matter if we put it in by default or not.  They’d remove it.  I don’t know the specific reasons why they do this.  They don’t share that information with me, nor should they have to.

    I don’t know where Cingular falls in all of this, but from some of the things you folks have posted here, it sounds like they’re one of the ones who actively want DUN removed. I’m sympathetic to your reasons why they shouldn’t remove it.  But you’re preaching to the choir here.  It’s them you need to convince.


  94. Chucki says:

    Mike – I sympathise with your predicament, but you know as well as I do that Joe Public has precious little chance of talking to anyone at any of the carriers who understands this problem and will be able to offer a solution.

    The ordinary end user has next to little option but to switch away from WM because a) Microsoft dropped the ball and b) Microsoft can’t fix the problem without upsetting *their* customers (who aren’t the end users) so c) end users are screwed.

    The *only* solution to this problem that works for everyone (Microsoft, Carriers and end users) is for someone at Microsoft to contact the carriers and have the carriers publish a link where end users can send an email requesting the necessary CAB/update, or alternatively ensure that the Carriers are fully up to date with this support issue and provide clear instructions how we, the end users, can request resolution without spending hours on the phone going in circles (as evidenced above from extro). This is the least Microsoft can do to resolve an issue which is of your own making. You should not be making the end user jump through hoops before giving up in exasperation.

    The end user support process DOES NOT WORK right now, leaving the user with only one alternative – get rid of WM and move to Symbian.

  95. MikeCal says:

    Chucki, I do understand that individual end users have little chance of changing the mobile operators policy.  But I’m serious when I say that they have a greater chance than Microsoft does.  

    We’re constantly telling them what we think they should do.  I’m pretty sure we’ve even talked to them about this particular issue.  But if what we want and what they want are in conflict, they’ll win every time.

    As an end user, you’ve got to do what works best for you.  I’d personally prefer that you stay with WM.  But, if we don’t meet your needs and something else does, then you should get the device that meets your needs.  If you do switch, I hope you give us another chance on your next device.  

    Before you switch, though, make sure that what you’re switching to doesn’t have the same problem.  Remember that the reason we can’t give you a CAB file is that some MOs refuse to let their users have DUN.  If your MO is one of these, then the non-WM alternatives won’t have DUN either.


  96. Neil says:

    I love the new PAN instead of DUN with this significant exception: What I immediately noticed with the updated ROM for my HTC Hermes TyTn (Cingular 8525 on AT&T) upon using Bluetooth PAN via Internet Sharing my bandwidth dropped significantly. When using BT DUN I was getting between 800 and 1Mb download speeds, but with the BT PAN I’m only getting 380k.

    Since the update, when I use a bandwidth meter from IE on the phone I get 1Mb or better. But turn on the BT PAN and connect the laptop and I get 380k or 420k every time.

    Is the bandwidth now throttled? Is there a way to get it back up to proper speed?

    Here is a quote confirming what I’m talking about from the TyTn discussion forum and there has not been a solution presented yet:

    I have two 8525 devices and tested them both before and after the upgrade. Before the upgrade, both devices would sustain 1mbps speeds performing a tethered download of MSVPC 2007 from Microsoft’s website (approx 122kb / sec)

    After I upgraded the first one, the tethered speed fell to no more than 380kbps (approx 46kb / sec). Here’s the kicker — the second device, six inches from the first, was still downloading at ~122kb /sec. After its upgrade, it too fell to around 45kb / sec.

    So what gives? One of the reasons I bought this phone was for the broadband tethering and since the update, it’s 75% gone.


  97. Neil says:

    I also immediately noticed that upon using BT PAN/ICS/Internet Sharing, whatever you want to call it, I was not able to connect to the company VPN. However, I immediately rectified the problem by changing the phone’s PAN IP subnet.

    MS, please don’t use 192.168.0.x for the PAN network. Or at least give us a place to change it without hacking the phone.

    Looking forward to another update,


  98. extro says:

    I am not sure if the comments are being moderated.

  99. extro says:

    I entered a long comment some time back about my experience with AT&T customer service and it never appeared. Anyways, the summary is that it did not work and they have no clue what I am talking about.

  100. MikeCal says:

    extro, the comments aren’t moderated, but we’re inundated with comment spam, so the something in your comment might have set off the spam filter.  That said, there’s a comment from you on June 6th describing your experiences.  Is that the one, or was there another?  If there was another, was it near that date?  I can go look to see if it got unpublished but not deleted and readd it if so.


  101. Sure says:

    I entered a comment this morning. (06/14). 06/06 comment related to the previous experience with Cingular. I tried two times. They have no clue what I am talking about. I just asked them to reach MS and ask for a .cab file. But their response was way out of sync with the issue.

    – extro.

  102. MikeCal says:

    I see 3 comments from you on 6/14, and all are posted.  On 6/6 there was one that was posted.  That day was a particularly heavy one for Spam, but I only saw your one message and no others.  Ironically, one of my posts was marked as spam from that day, though.  

    If you had a second message on that date, I’m sorry but it appears that it got deleted.


  103. extro says:

    As I said, the comment was entered today. I have been spending a lot of time with Cingular on emails of late. Switching instruments is not an easy thing to do. They cost a lot. And I currently am one month old on a fresh 2 year Cingular contract. Returning the instrument is not possible. Buying a new instrument costs a lot. I will try to use an old instrument that I was using before (has BT DUN but is not a smartphone).

    What upsets me though is that: I paid 175$ for my Blackjack. And just because of BT DUN, I cannot use it.

  104. GregSco says:

    Hi Neil,

    Thanks for your feedback.  I have forwarded it to the right internal people to investigate.  

    We do test performance of ICS and compare it to Modem Link.  In our testing I recall the perf being within ~5%.  I also have a few friends who use ICS with 3G connections (Samsung Blackjack) and are reporting very good results.  So I suspect this a device specific issue.

    As for the 192.168.0.X subnet, this is a commonly used subnet used by wireless routers.  I haven’t heard of this issue until now.  Thanks for the feedback.



  105. David Lloyd says:

    I have an application from a third party software vendor that is IRDA based and this no longer works.  This patch falls right before my deployment date.  Since my pda manufacturer will now only sell devices with WM5 AKU3, i feel that i have been hung out to dry.  As these things go, we are never given any notice by our vendor when they upgrade their platforms.  We are simply told that certain models are no longer supported anymore.  Furthermore, we then have to look at supporting legacy devices within our organization as well as the newer platforms.  My experience on this is pretty negative and i am as equally unhappy with this as i am with our palmtop solutions vendor for never giving us any notice at all when these things do change.  Poor customer service all round if you ask me.

  106. TransFXB says:

    (Sad…) Now, with my HTC S620 ($400+) WM5,I can’t Bluetooth connect to my TomTom go910 GPS ($500+)(Bluetooth PAN not supported)and my $40+ (traffic & weather data) yearly subscription is useless…

    (Sad again…)

  107. MikeT says:

    I’ve tried three different ways to get an answer from my carrier on this, and I have failed dismally to have them even understand the issue, let alone care enough to respond.

    Some of my legacy devices need DUN; (sure my newer ones can use PAN) so it’s the older ones which require DUN (e.g. TomTom GO).   I’m not about to throw them all out, so the simple solution for me is that Windows Mobile has ruled itself out of consideration for my next phone.

  108. extro says:

    My problem is solved. Guess who helped?

    Neither Microsoft, neither Cingular nor Samsung.

    Garmin helped. Downloaded a Bluetooth firmware update. Worked. I would advice you all (similar) WM5 users to knock the doors of such companies.

    This would be the last that I would deal with MS. Thereby not jeopardizing my future ($) investments on other gadgets.

    I want to decide the technology that I will be using.

  109. Brett says:

    I too am having issues connecting to a Cisco VPN.  I can get the tunnel up but I’m having issue getting RDP connections to work.  I’ve done bandwidth testing between the two connection types and they both seem to do about the same on my phone.  

    Keep in mind my device isn’t "supposed" to be running AKU3.5 We’ve kinda had to build the OS ourselves but its working quite well considering!

  110. Brett says:

    The gentleman who fixed his problem by changing the netmask…  What did you do?  just open it up?  What exactly was the idea there?

  111. S SALI says:

    I have a fairly simple question. I just got Windows Vista Premium Home edition. Ive got my WMA5 Device(O2 Atom Exec) syncing with my emails, contacts etc via bluetooth but HOW HOW HOW do i get my laptop go online using DUN or anything other thing VIA WM5. Basically i want to have GPRS connecivity on my laptop thru my WM5 Via Bluetooth.. PLEASE HELP.Someone…..Anyone.

  112. Martyn says:

    Perhaps we should change the title of this thread to:-

    "Why haven’t Microsoft done anything to replace Bluetooth DUN to get its mobile customers back on side?"

    Oh I know, because the answer is too obvious: –


    P.S. WM6 phone going on ebay this afternoon, good luck to the poor person that buys it.

  113. Nick says:

    I bought a very nice MDA Verio 2 from T-mobile, but unfortunately had to return it after discovering that Windows Mobile on it didn’t support the Bluetooth DUN profile so I could use my TomTom Sat Nav unit.

    Swapped it for a N95 with Symbian which supported Bluetooth DUN! I recommend this OS if you need this functionality.

  114. Brett says:

    At the very least if you’re not going to provide a BT DUN functionality why not at least forward RDP and VPN connections through so that the product you DO have is useful to business customers!

  115. helge says:

    talked to htc: they did not understand what i was talking about, send me to vodafone

    talked to vodafone: they did not understand what i was talking about, after 10 minutes they hand me over to a software engineer who is customizing operating systems for vodafone –> the did not even realize that DUN was disabeled, i send him the linkt to that threat, he told me than that they are actually testing wm6 and that DUN is not part of it either, he told me that he could not solve my problem because he does not have a cab file with an installation

    tomtom support was very bad. i was asking for an bluetooth update to PAN. i was never getting an answer.

  116. JonM says:

    I’ve been keeping an eye on this thread for a while, and  ms bashing, whilst fun, isn’t helping to solve our problem.  I bought (SIM free) an HTC S710 (WM6) as soon as it was available and like many other am immensely frustrated with the removal of DUN as I can no longer get traffic updates via my Tomtom 910.

    I understand that Microsoft may be unable to issue a CAB due to carrier objections.

    My frustration is not so much with ms (they’ve acknowledged their mistake and will be putting DUN back) – who I’m really annoyed with are HTC and Tomtom.

    I contacted Tomtom to ask whether they’d be issuing an update to add ICS support and their response was ‘he information you have requested is currently unavailable.’!

    I contacted HTC asking whether they could supply an update to provide DUN on the S710 – HTC never even responded!

    Does anyone on this thread have more direct access into these organisations?  Anyone heard any news of whether either takes this problem seriously?

  117. timothy gray says:

    I just purchased a brand new HP IPAQ 510 smartphone, with WM6, to work with my brand-new TOMTOM GO. I actually called TOMTOM in advance, and asked them if these models were compatable. The TOMTOM support reps were non-commital, stating that the model was not on their supproted list, but I could try it.

    I purchased the phone, and predictably, after spending a week to get them to work together, I finally gave up. I "donated" my WM6 smartphone to my son, and began using my TOMTOM with an old Motorola L7 SLVR that my son had. (Boy, did my son get a great early birthday present!)

    Really, MS, please fix this. Please put the DUN capabilities back in WM6. All the phones that are on the supported TOMTOM list now are old, junky ones, with no Smartphone capabilities. I don’t want to have to use this old L7 with my TOMTOM for the next 5 years.

  118. JP says:

    I got TomTom working on my Dash.i use an external bluetooth GPS device.  I basically had to edit the registry.  I used the following instructions for using Google Maps to enable TomTom to work with my bluetooth GPS


  119. Tony says:

    Now my pocket pc is almost useless without since I cannot use my WM6 (dopod c730) phone to get online !

  120. Martyn says:

    Anyone else here infuriated by the way MS can accept responsibility for their mistakes with the XBOX and actually do something about it, but yet seem completely unwilling to do anything similar for WM6??



  121. dave says:


    man, u guys are nuts. to remove a valuable and stable solution before the new solution has been in use for a while.

    really, such a basic concept.

    i will forgive u since finally access the internet and phone c all at the same time.


  122. Willy says:

    Microsoft: you suck. Give me DUN back.

  123. Wirespy says:

    Guys, I found a solution to the missing DUN for WM5/6 phones!

    I use a app called USB Modem by a developer called ‘Mobile Stream’


    gets the job done..for my HTC s720 WM6 and my Macbook Pro.. via Bluetooth connection….and yes indeed it does USB phone as modem and transfers.


    14days trial or 30 connects…

  124. TomTomWM says:

    Has anybody got a Vodafone v1415 talking to a TomTom yet? Read all the stuff and am really frustrated. think I’ll have to get my P900 repaired now!


  125. JP says:

    Hey Neil –

    How do you change my PAN subnet IP?  I have the same problem with my work VPN. It connects but no data transfer.


  126. Neil says:

    To Change the Internet Sharing IP Address:

    1) Change the unit’s router IP address:


    2) Change the last known DHCP Client IP address: HKLMCommConectionSharingAddresses – then change the name of the folder

    This probably isn’t the right forum for registry hacks, but that’s how you do it. Seems like a simple fix from MS to solve a very annoying problem. Hopefully they will take it into consideration.


  127. Phil says:


    Thank you very much for supplying those instructions.  You are correct, this is probably not the best location to be discussing tweaks.  I would appreciate a way to contact you or if you would be so kind as to start a thread somewhere else where we can discuss this further.  I was hoping you could elaborate a little on how you were able to connect to VPN over the BT PAN.

    I have followed your instructions above, but I am unsure WHAT I should change the "Router IP" to.  I tried a few different values but what I’m noticing is that once I connect to VPN, my laptop’s "Default Gateway" disappears.  When I disconnect VPN and I am able to access the internet again.

    Again, probably not the place to discuss this, but would appreciate a few minutes of your time to help with this.  I’m sure there are others out there that would benefit from this.

    Thank you,


  128. Please fix this, the fate of the world depends upon people being able to access travel updates for their TomTom through their Blackjacks.

  129. Milan Dasek says:


    Hi, is there any solution how to enable BT DUN on Samsung i600? PAN in i600 is not working with Broadcom PAN and old MS WM5 don’t have PAN integrated, so I am not able to connect my Fujitsu Siemens N560 PocketPC with my new cell phone!

    Is there any patch available (beta testing?) to enable DUN on WM5 AKU3 for smartphones?


  130. thorsten heimann says:

    well, in case of having legal dokuments i used the DUN profile to be able to send and rec faxes. i was very disappointed as i could not find dun any more. its not used daily, but if i need, i have to find a fax closeby…

    well after all i hope dun will return soon to be able to use KSE truefax ver xx again. actually i use a HTC touch and s710 and especially with the touchscreen version im able to sign incoming docs via fax.

    hope my kraut – englisch is understandable.


  131. roeland says:

    well, even though the decision has reverted, MS should start to realise that customers are the ones who decide what’s in, not developers.

    I seriously don’t understand why you get away with this. I have a HP6515d and I never ever had such a bad product based on WM2003SE. Piece of crap is just a nice way of saying that it completely sucks.

    I thought nokia was king of bug-releases but I found out it wasn’t true.

    Instead of looking at (emoval of) features that are ‘cool’, ‘better’ etc, you first shld try to produce a good product that is that well built that, if an ntegrator akes a few modules, options and so forth, it doesn’t end in a drama.

    It can be done, in fact it has been shown by the open source community.

    I know it sounds harsh but I think this kind of criticism is legit.

  132. Guys and gals,

    as one of the guys that made this happen, let me present you all a REAL, working, free – as opposed to the USB Modem linked above, which, the last time I checked (see my related article) did NOT work at least on Pocket PC’s – solution!

    Read http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&p=2121&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1 for a complete tutorial & compatibility remarks.

  133. Craig Partridge says:

    I use a TomTom One device. With my previous phone (SPV C600) it works fine. With my new HP 514 it does not. Your article explains why but to say I’m a LITTLE frustrated woudl be a horrible understatement. I cannot get any data feeds onto my TomTom device now like traffic services etc…

    Please release something I can simply install onto my new device to get this back again – and SOOOOOON!!!!



  134. Mary Ellen says:

    I am not going to say I am the most technological person on the planet. But using my bluetooth with my headset was easy…it searches for the device, it finds it, I use it. Case closed. I bought one of those new-fangled GPS navigation systems, a TomTom v.4 to be exact, and it finds my phone, even knows the model no. but cannot connect to it. My phone, too, recognizes the TomTom and after I reply YES to Connect with TomTom, it says.."searching for service list for tomTom v.4" and it ends about there.Am I punching in the manual info wrong? Is my phone just not compatible with the GPS system? Am I lost somewhere between technology and chaos? Don’t answer that…but please, if you have any suggestions or information on how I can connect these two indispensible devices, please let me know.

  135. Werner Ruotsalainen says:

    Mary, if you have a Pocket PC (and not a Smartphone), give my hack a try – it’ll most probably work.

  136. jl says:

    All I know is that my nokia 770 and my cingular 8525 worked together perfectly fine, until I upgraded to WM6.  MS says don’t blame us blame the carrier, the carrier, cingular at least, has no clue what MS is talking about.

    It seems pretty clear to me that many people have wasted their valuable time on this completely avoidable issue either due to the actions of MS or inaction of Cingular.  

    The question is who will accept responsibility first and find ways to remedy the situation. I know one thing for sure as more and more people suffer after upgrading to wm6, there will be more and more lawyers out there chomping at the bit to go after these 2 giants.

  137. Andy says:

    I’ve never used DUN cause I just recently bought Cingular 8525 with the latest ROM so it already had Internet Sharing feature which was easy to use to connect my laptop to internet via usb. But the question is how to get it to work using Bluetooth. I successfully connected smartphone and my PC via PAN but still can not surf internet. Can someone explain how to do it, please? thanks.

  138. Why am I not surprised? It’s now over 2 months since I posted a comment on this issue at this very blog post, and there is still NO SOLUTION. MikeCal responded to me about how Microsoft is unable to shape their product’s future due to the fact that their direct clients make the demands. Somehow though, they were able to slip in BT PAN and remove DUN without their clients making that request. How interesting is that?

    After 5 years of Pocket PC’s, I’m finally done. I’ve made the leap to the Apple iPhone, and frankly, while it does have its flaws, such as 2.5G instead of 3/3.5G, and lack of third-party applications, the damn phone WORKS as advertised. Companies like Apple take pride in delivering high quality, highly design-centric products. I’ve been happy with my iPods, my Powerbook, and my MacBook Pro. Now my iPhone. I can safely say, that Apple has delivered on their promises in almost all cases (my experiences).

    Microsoft has failed me. Every upgrade that I’ve spent hundreds to thousands of dollars for, has been in struggle, misery, and distress. I’m tired of buying broken products from companies who pass the buck on their integrators.

    The fact that you couldn’t post a registry hack, cab file, or official press statement shows me that you have no commitment to your clients’ clients. You make us spend hours on the customer support lines of the mobile providers (who could care less, and make it very difficult to reach people who can understand what we’re even talking about), wasting our time, which ends up not doing a damn thing to help.

    MikeCal mentioned "We’re constantly telling them what we think they should do.  I’m pretty sure we’ve even talked to them about this particular issue.  But if what we want and what they want are in conflict, they’ll win every time." — You know what that tells me? Microsoft can’t even recall if they’ve brought up this issue with their clients. Which means, they really haven’t made this issue a priority, and they don’t feel it’s important enough to make a concerned effort to push it on their clients.

    Translation: Our mobile providers don’t want us tethering, and Microsoft doesn’t want to piss off their clients. Thus, they’re not making an issue out of this.

    I never thought I’d become one of those campy anti-MS types of people, but wow, my blood is starting to crawl with the beginnings of it. I’ve lost way too much money and time debugging these crappy PDAs. (I’m a software developer too!)

    Good luck Microsoft… One more pissed off customer gone.

    With all sincerity,


  139. MikeCal says:

    Kevin, I’m sorry we let you down, and I sincerely hope your new phone meets your needs.  

    Please don’t interpret my not knowing the ins and outs of every conversation Microsoft has had as an indication that no one here remembers what we’ve talked about.  I’m one guy, and I didn’t participate in those conversations.  I don’t know everything done by everyone here.  That said, if I’m giving the impression that the company doesn’t pay attention to its customers, I’ll be more careful in what I say in the future.

    I am curious, though.  It’s my understanding that the iPhone doesn’t support DUN.  Is my understanding incorrect?  If you left us because we temporarily removed support for DUN, why didn’t you go to a phone that DOES support it?  


  140. Dave Murray says:

    PAN and ICS may be the way ahead, but there are an awful lot of devices out there that still need good old DUN. Having flexibility on your type of connections is why people buy WM5/6 devices. Making this an optional item for vendors to install means joe public will have to do a lot of searching around to enable what is essentially a supported function of the OS. Think both MS and the device manufacturers should have made this clear on their marketing materials. I know the vendor who made my phone claimed DUN OS support despite it not being enabled.

    Hope the commitee that decided to pull DUN don’t get put in charge of anything important anytime soon e.g. airbags or brakes on cars….the airbags are there, we just decided to let the dealers decide if they switch them on or not 🙂

  141. Shane Carpenter says:

    We have asked Orange if they can give us the cab file to enable DUN and the response was

    "Our initial understanding was that it was not possible to implement BT DUN with a separate cab file as it would conflict with the o/s which, as you say, now has ICS built in instead of DUN"

    So it looks as though they wont supply me with a way to do this 🙁

  142. Chris says:

    I’ve just spoken to Orange (UK) about this, and they didn’t have a clue.

    They referred me to HTC tech support, who also at first said that it was Microsoft’s doing that DUN was removed.  I escelated the call to a supervisor who gave me the same line until I gave him the web address to this blog.  

    They say they are now going to look into it and will get back to me when they have further information.

  143. Shane Carpenter says:

    Please let us know if you get anywhere Chris. Thanks.

  144. David Wynn says:

    Blaming it on OEM’s sound a tad like passing the buck to other companies.

    I had a large rant at Orange because my replacement phone came with the new ROM (Without DUN) which has rendered my TOMTOM useless for the Plus services.

    Orange say they cannot supply the old ROM and that you need to speak to Microsoft. Microsoft say it’s up to the OEM to supply.

    What are we supposed to do when they just blame each other?

  145. ReadMuch? says:

    I’ll start by saying I am not a MS fanboy by any means.  However…

    The lack of reading comprehension of today’s society frightens me.  Countless times Mike has stated two very important pieces of information that would eliminate 70% of the whining in these comments if people would read and comprehend.

    1. MS did NOT remove BT DUN from WM, but rather left it in as an OPTIONAL piece and allowed the MFGs/Carriers to decide whether or not to include it. (In all actuality the final decision is the hands of the Carrier.) The decision to include BTDUN as an optional item may have been in error as the carriers probably didn’t even think of the impact it would have on their customers if they did not include it in the final product.  And for those complaining that European/Asian carriers sell "virgin" phones you are sorely mistaken.  They may not require subsidy locks on their devices, but they do require the device meet their performance standards and they still have the final say in the final OS build-up.

    2. Mike also stated that MS will INCLUDE BTDUN in future releases of WM.  But, the final decision to include/exclude BTDUN is still in the hands of the carriers.

    I have experience in device development on the Carrier side and trust me when I say that they ABSOLUTELY would not intentionally remove any piece of code that would preclude a user from using as much data time as they can.  Data is THE bread and butter for wireless carriers. Especially those that subsidize their handsets.  Generally it takes 8-10 months of monthly service fees for a carrier to recoup their cost of the handset subsidy and they barely break even on voice (unless the user is using 150-200% of their included minutes)  So I can say with confidence if a carrier has left out BTDUN it was purely because they lacked the forsight to know what impact it would have on their customers.  You must understand that in many cases the feature sets of a device are decided long in advance of the release of a device and this is usually done by (undortunately) marketing groups with little technical experience.

    In calling your carrier, it’s going to be a cold day in heck, when you reach a 1st or 2nd level tech-support rep that even understands what DUN is let alone BT DUN.  (The carriers I worked with generally staff their tech-support with "experienced" customer care advisors).  You really need to climb the ladder to get a hold of someone "in the know".  An email to their leadership offices would probably work better.  that way it will go down the chain of command rather than up it.

    As Extro did, I would also suggest contacting the MFGs of your supplimental device and request that they include PAN support in future software releases/new products.  It is equally important for these manufactures to understand the importance of PAN as it is for carriers to continue to include DUN.  As Mike said, going forward (and quite rapidly) mobile devices will no longer be able to support DUN based on the IP technologies they use.  

  146. Shane Carpenter says:

    Well sorry Orange customers/users, no hope for us i’m afraid. Reply from Orange below.

    "Well after a glimmer of hope, unfortunately the answer that has now come back is that it would not be possible to provide just a .cab file for this upgrade as there would need to be some connection changes made by Microsoft / HTC in the ROM.  

    As we only want to have one supported software build, I’m told that this would obviously not be something that could be done without impacting the core build that everyone would get and hence is not something we really want to entertain.

    The stance seems definately to be that ICS is the way forward and MS will not be going back to DUN , so it would seem the way forward would be to investigate an ICS implementation that helps the customer achieve what their DUN setup used to give them."

  147. Anon says:

    Dear ReadMuch,

    You are not getting the point. For known/unknown reasons, BTDUN did not end up in the instruments. MS/WM agreed that it messed up (please refer to the above comments – # June 12, 2007 12:07 PM).

    MS wants the users to shut up and be understanding. But if you will ObserveMuch, the users are the ones losing here. They paid lot of money to get some thing that has in turn crippled their usage lifestyle and the people (parties) concerned are just dusting off their hands.

    Did MS even bother to consult OEMs from their side? Show us an activity that tells us that MS cares about its users. Who cares if MS includes it (BTDUN) in the future releases or not. It has let us down now, it will let us down in the future – if not BTDUN, something else.

    Bottom point, MS(WM) messed up and the users are paying for it.

  148. Geoff Edwards says:

    I was about to despair of ever using TomTom traffic and weather with my Mobile 6 device (HTC Hermes/O2 XDA-Trion) and then I found this:


    which worked perfectly first time.

  149. Shane, what you’ve been told by Orange ("Our initial understanding was that it was not possible to implement BT DUN with a separate cab file as it would conflict with the o/s which, as you say, now has ICS built in instead of DUN") is, to state it mildly, far from the truth.

    BT DUN and PAN-based dial up DOES co-exist. The Orange folks seem not to have a clue about what they speak about. See my related tutorial on re-enabling DUN on WM5 AKU3+ / WM6 Pocket PC’s.

  150. Transfxb says:

    Upgraded my HTC S620 to WM6. DUN patch applied.

    BT connection fully functional with my TomTom Go910.

    Thanks to HTC and XDA-Developpers folks!

    No greeting to Microsoft.

  151. Jody L says:

    MS May want to work with TomTom then to get their devices to work with . ALL of their Nav Devices use BT DUN to get internet connections for traffic updates, weather, camera data, buddy list, etc. The same is true for those with older Garmin, NavMan and other in-car Nav Devices for those of us who don’t want to buy software to use on a smaller screen.

  152. 先日、新宿西口のヨドバシに買物に行ったときに発見したのがコレ。プリンストンテクノ…

  153. PeteM says:

    This is really frustrating. I have a great new phone (iPAQ914) and cannot use it for traffic information on my TomTom 700 where I had to pay annually to get the function.

    Why doesn’t Microsoft supply the DUN patch as a download that people can directly add to their phones to resolve this problem. Rather than this approach ‘if the OEMs want’?

    This would resolve a known customer issue and be seen as a very positive response to customer feedback

  154. Peter C says:

    Unfortunately my Thinkpad T42p shows the network access point on my WM6 Bell HTC 6800, but fails with error 0x81000015 when I try to connect. Worked perfectly with my old Audiovox 6600 with WM2k3 and DUN.

    I realize the problem is on the Windows side.  Lenovo driver updates and Windows update doesn’t solve the problem. Sure wish the OEMs would’ve included DUN for one more generation.  Or provide as the previous poster suggests, a downloadable patch.

    Billyware -> better is the bloated enemy of good.

  155. Julian Harmer says:

    I had an orange M3100 (UK based) it worked perfectly, then I had a replacement issued, still WM5 though. Now it’s useless. I use it for email and Wireless connectivity for my TomTom. Lack of DUN makes it just a paperweight

    You say you are issuing an update, to include DUN, any idea when it’s coming out?


  156. Frank Parker says:

    Count another unhappy customer Mike.  My company uses Tomtoms for our field staff nav units.  Until recently they were working perfectly with our WM5 smartphones.  Then due to a minor complaint our ATT rep advised us to upgrade the firmware.  Half way through the upgrades we discovered the missing DUN.  Now of course we’ve traded a relatively minor issue for a huge one. Half our road warriors don’t have full nav functionality and they’re pissed.  

    You’ve said you’ve heard us and are going to re-enable DUN on future devices.  What about current WM5 customers?  

    We’ve been patient but we need the problem solved.  Upper management (drooling over the Pearl) wants to replace the smartphones with Blackberries and supporting RIM infrastructure. I’ve been in contact with ATT over this and even with the threat of losing the account they’ve said there’s nothing they can do about it. My ATT rep says it was a MS decision.

    The switch will be painful and expensive but it will work.  And believe me, once we switch to RIM devices we won’t be going back any time soon.  The expense alone guarantees that.

    Actually, I don’t know why I posted this.  Unless this gets fixed in the next week, which I doubt, the BB switch is going to happen.  Oh well.

  157. I’ve just published an article on sharing the dial-up connection via Wi-Fi on Pocket PC Phone Edition (WM Professional) devices. See http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&p=2207&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1 for more info.

  158. Transfxb, you mean you’ve made the DUN patch working on the S620 (a Smartphone)?

  159. Brian says:

    I have gone to the site recomended by Mr Werner and i am sure it would work but i have no idea how to install it on my pocket pc. can any one expalin it using a few more words please

  160. Werner Ruotsalainen says:

    Brian, you mean the BT DUN patch? Did you manage to import the Registry file? If you don’t know how it’s done, download the trial version of Resco File Explorer and install it; making sure you also enable its Registry Editor module. Start the latter at least once.

    Now, transfer the REG file I’ve provided to anywhere on your handheld and click it from File Explorer. It’ll be imported.

  161. スリムでありながら、そこそこ打てるキーボード、従来のW-ZERO3[es](WS…

  162. TransfXB says:

    Yes Werner, I have upgraded first my HTC S620 Smartphone to WM6 (official ROM from HTC) and then applied WM6_BT_DUN.cab found on XDAdev…

    And it works like a charm 🙂

  163. Guys and gals, I’ve posted brand new, updated versions of both tutorials explaining how you can use dial-up over both BT DUN and Wi-Fi. I’ve also elaborated on WM6_BT_DUN.cab mentioned by TransfXB.

    The new way is much easier to be installed – you, basically, only need to install a single CAB file. NO registry importing, file copying etc. needed.

  164. Sergio says:

    We want the Modem Link back on WM6 !

    Internet Sharing needs Active Sync 4.5+ in order to work.

    USB conenction via Modem Link does need only the modem drivers, no need to install active sync .. so it’s better when you want to use a PC without installing active sync, just the modem driver..

    It’s good to have them both.


  165. Werner Ruotsalainen says:

    don’t forget to check out the CAB file posten on by blog. It fixes your problems.

  166. I’ve just posted a step-by-step tutorial of another huge enhancement: BT PAN without an active Internet Sharing, with several clients connecting at the same time.

    See my blog.

  167. chris says:

    Why does Microsoft insist on removing features with every new release? (cf. ActiveSync etc…)

  168. scyost says:

    I’m not sure if you really want an answer to that question, but every feature and piece of code has an ongoing cost to the team in terms of maintenance, security review, test passes, ROM space. If old features didn’t go away, then we’d eventually have to spend all our team maintaining the old stuff. We don’t do it just for fun though. There’s a pretty high bar that has to be met before we will deprecate a feature. Typically we either have to provide a superior alternative or show that an extremely small number of customers are using the feature.

    None of the above explanations apply to the feature of this blog post – that one is still in the product, just off by default.

  169. TransFXB says:

    "that one is still in the product, just off by default"

    Some questions:

    1) Why did you title this blog post "Why did we remove Bluetooth DUN?" if BT DUN is not actually removed?

    2) "…just off by default" How do we turn it ON? we NEED this feature to operate some very recent devices.

    One comment:

    BT SPAN is probably a "superior alternative" to BT DUN as far as one doesn’t need BT DUN. And, in this case, it is way incorrect to say that "an extremely small number of customers are using the feature".

  170. igalan says:

    Removing DUN is a sure way to disrupt many working setups. Why no one thought a little bit about this before making the decision? A lot of trouble could have been saved with so little work…

    There is another scenario where this causes trouble and MS is the one to blame, because if MS only give us ICS and no BT PAN Client profile to connect to it, how are we expected to connect to the Internet with their own OS now? I have a WM 5 PocketPC (not Phone Edition) and a WM 6 Phone Edition. I only have ICS on the Phone Edition (no DUN), but the WM 5 Pocket PC doesn’t have PAN Client capabilities. And this is with two devices working with Windows Mobile. Frustrating. My old WM 5 Phone Edition had a DUN profile that the PocketPC could use. Is WM 6 a step forward in connectivity? XDA-Devs to the rescue! (they should be paid for their work. Really. MS could consider some sort of collaboration with them, like beta testing new AKUs or something.)

  171. Simon says:

    Hey Werner – read your blog on making BT DUN work on WM6 – you say you got it to work on an HTC s710 using the "all in one CAB"….HOW? tried it numerous times on my s710 and no DUN services are showing up.

  172. Simon says:

    So I’ve now managed to use the CAB file linked above to get this working on some flavours of WM6 on UK Vodafone but not others….what else gets changed by the Carriers?  Still no luck with the s710 on UK Vodafone……

  173. Simon, dunno – T-Mo my have messed up the device. Is it app locked? If it is, make sure you remove the app lock. Don’t be afraid, it’s legal and has nothing to do with SIM locking.

  174. Simon says:

    Werner, I’ve nstalled the CAB and it appears to put all the right reg entries in the right places (checked the XML file) but after a soft boot I get no difference in the services displayed.

    Dont think the app is locked as I get no warnings to indicate that. I can install other CABs / apps no problem. I know the DUN CAB works on windows mobile phone edition as I’ve done that already. Any chance you can provide the Reg entries I need to check etc in case I have missed one?

    This is on an s710 on UK vodafone (so was the phone edition that worked!)

  175. Rio says:

    I have to say removing DUN stack is one of the most foolish decision that was able to be devised. No matter how cool the Internet Sharing works, it is not "Standard Format."

    Your team have to realize that there are so many products out side of the Microsoft using DUN stack that customer using right now, and there is no upgrade for those kind of gadgets. Compatibility and connectivity is more important than coolness.

  176. Carsten says:

    I tried to use my TomTom Go with my WM6 phone (Hermes HTC100 recently upgraded) and was also disappointed to find the lack of DUN support, since that is the only way I could possibly get the online updates to work. Without that, no go.


  177. Hi Greg,

    I think ICS is a very interesting step forward. Thank You for the information. Could You please contact me by mail: jean_pierre.buttet@smartdata.ch

    Thank You in advance.

    Best regards.

  178. Simon says:

    Werner – sorted the s710 issue I had – Vodafone UK definitely app-lock the device – the unlock CAB found on XDA developers thread sorted that – reload of the DUN cab and I now have Tomtom Traffic back = happy person now. Many thanks to the developers of the BT_DUN.CAB, appreciated.

  179. Simon, thanks for reporting back; I also include this info (must be app unlocked) in the tutorial.

  180. Simon says:

    Understood Werner – my fault for mis-understanding the difference between a locked phone (to carrier) and ‘App locked’ phone (registry by carrier) all sorted now.

  181. Charles says:

    After I applied the BT_DUN.CAB on my HTC Wing, how do I set up my Nokia N800 to work with it?  it gives me an error with connection or something.  Is there settings on the phone (eg. number to dial, etc) or on the N800?  Thanks

  182. Charles says:

    Oh, I forgot to mention in the above post that I’m using tmobile with the 5.99 tmobile web.

  183. Jim says:

    As a former Microsoftie myself, I can see how this was done and I can also understand how Mike doesn’t have all the details around the discussions with the OEMs.  It’s a big place and a much of the OEM interaction is done by specific people.

    That said, I am also SUPER frustrated that BT DUN isn’t available on my Blackjack.

    I’ve installed Werner’s CAB, but I do not see DUN services listed when I try and pair it with my Nokia N800 (OS2008).  Whenver I try to connect, the Blackjack lights up for a second and then the N800 gives me a failed to connect message.

    Not being a Linux guy (having worked on the Windows team for the last 6 years), I’m still getting up to speed on all the shell scripts I have to run on the N800 to get BT PAN working.  Not sure I’m quite ready to dive in there yet.  I’d rather get the BT DUN hack working.

    Is there something I’m missing?

  184. David says:

    I found your article after almost 24 hours non-stop searching on the web.  So, first, I wish some of the key information such as DUN is now included in the OEM, should be included in the help notes.  

    I use DUN for outlook SMS application.  I spend $500 to buy this HTC P3300 device and I have been searching for the modem link or modem driver for long time.  

    I am sure there are other folks out there to use the DUN on the PC for cell phone text messaging purpose. I will now look into the OEM files for the Modem Link. Please don’t forget there are other users like me to use DUN in a way that you have never throught about.  (MOSA users)

  185. geWAPpnet says:

    I have a new MacBook with Leopard and a HTC P3600 (latest official firmware with WM5) and want to use the phone as modem for the laptop. I came across this article about the problem of the missing DUN profile.

    The guide to the "hack of the year" does not work for me. The MacBook simply does not list the DUN functionality as bluetooth service. Maybe it’s related to Leopard.

    Internet Sharing via PAN Bluetooth builds up a connection, but for some strange reason I can’t reach a server over this connection. First I have to wait several minutes before the DNS is used by the Mac. Then for six or seven data packets (using PING) the connection works as it should and after that every PING goes to the IP of the phone. I can’t figure out what is the reason for this strange behaviour. Maybe my values in the registry of the P3600 are wrong. Is there somewhere a list of the default values for BTPAN1 and other related keys?

  186. marty says:

    I have just installed the WM6_DUN cab and on my macbook (OSX leopard) finally can see a DUN service when pairing this is great and the only problem now is I set up vodafone settings username: web password: web and dial number either "internet" (which worked on my WM6 TREO) or *99# which vodafone tld me to use when usb tethering, the *99# and testing a few different modem scripts gets the connection to "authenticating" when dialling but then it cuts off and I’m back to square one. any ideas….from a desparate man (i don’t want to give up my new tilt but at the moment the old treo’s looking pretty reliable)

  187. Andrew says:

    About 2 years ago I could Activesync my Outlook PC with a Windows Mobile PDA/phone via WiFi.  I found this particularly useful on my home network, and it was fast and reliable.

    Now, with MWM 6.0 and Activesync 4.5, I can see no way to do this.  Is there a way?

    Secondly, the removal of BT DUN renders my TomTom data subscriptions pointless, as I can no longer connect my TomTom GPS to the TomTom server via my WM PDA/phone.

    Thanks a bunch.

  188. Mike M says:

    Internet Sharing is a pain to use. I used to be able to just dial up to the Internet without ever touching my phone. Now, I have to dig out my phone and set it up so that I can connect. If you want to keep the Internet Sharing, make it automated.


    HTC 8525 and Tilt owner

  189. Nita Vir says:

    I am very frustrated that BT DUN isn’t available on my Blackjack.

    I’ve installed Werner’s CAB, but I do not see DUN services listed, Also I do not know where to look for services in Blackjack.

    when I try and pair it with my Nokia N810 (OS2008) with blackjack paring is workibg but when I try to connect, the Blackjack lights up for a second and then the N810 gives me a failed to connect message.

    I really need help to resolve this problem.



  190. Clifton Ogden says:

    Where is the PAN client for WM6?  If this is all in support of new technology, how can I get a WM6 device to connect to another WM6 device via PAN?

  191. Rich says:

    Internet Sharing is a great idea…but it appears that Verizon has removed it from the standard install – and likely removed the ability to connect via BT DUN as well.  Sad.

  192. Brad Midgley says:

    DUN doesn’t strictly require access to the radio or cooperation from the telco. It can be virtualized on top of your regular connection, just like PAN is.

    I have a little linux access point that does this. It connects to the internet through a verizon usb adapter and shares the connection both over PAN (using pand) and DUN (using dund) at the same time.

    Maybe it wouldn’t be worth the effort to make DUN virtualized since you don’t already have something like linux dund, but it is possible.

  193. Ben Pratt says:

    I used the Modem Link and/or BT DUN to dial analog modems. In my field, I support many devices that use analog POTS modems for remote support. I have upgraded to a device that uses WM6, and can no longer use my smartphone to access these analog modems.

    I have noticed that I can add dial-up connections in  settings->connections, then set the added dial-up connection as the ‘Network Connection’ in Internet Sharing. When I then try to connect, it establishes an IP connection with my laptop, and appears to dial the analog modem. But the connection never establishes. However, even if it did, I don’t know how this would work since the laptop and modem connections would be on different subnets.

  194. Mark says:

    I’m completely disappointed by the choice to remove DUN. I have a Sprint HTC Touch and it is really hampering my use of the phone and plan that I’m paying for by not being able to use with my PAN-less devices, including my Linux computer.

    Shame on Microsoft.

  195. Deyan says:

    Yes, with PAN profile your phone acts as a WIFI router.


    sometimes we do NOT need a WIFI router.

    Sometimes we need to get an IP provided directly from the operator’s DHCP.

    Sometimes we don’t need NAT.

    Is there a chance that you stop thinking instead of the customers and start doing what the customers want  ?

    Tell me – what is the effort to leave the DUN profile hidden ( and possibly activated when needed by a registry key ) instead of removing it completely ?

    Windows mobile is getting worse and worse, slower and slower, more unstable than ever.

    I am never never ever going to buy a windows device !

  196. Edison says:

    I got my HTC-S620 (T-Mobile Dash) running Windows Mobile 6.1 to work with my TomTom Go 730. I am able to access TomTom’s servers for all my plus servers via the phone.

    You need to do two things.

    1) Go to this page http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=1351044&postcount=21 and download the cab file to you phone. Execute the file on your phone, and do a reboot.

    2) Go to this page http://www.tomtom.com/4710, and locate the GPRS settings for your phone company. Follow the instructions and do a MANUAL setup on the TomTom.

    I see no reason why this wouldn’t work on any WM6.x / TomTom combination.

  197. Andrew Brierley says:

    WOW – This is the best news I have had all week! I downloaded the WM6_BT_DUN.cab file, installed and wahey, my TYTN II WM6.1 now works perfectly with my tomtom ONE XL and Vodafone contract.

    TomTom should put this info directly on their website so everyone can easily find it.

    Thanks again you are a life saver,


  198. Sebski says:

    I have read all posts. Tried Connect my Orbit 2 with TNS400. Same problem DUN. Tried the BT_DUN.CAB, but still unable to connect TomTom Services like Traffic.

    Anybody managed to get it working?

  199. James says:

    Thanks for posting the blog and being open about the design choices.  

    Damn nice of you.

    Chosing among design tradeoffs is tough, hard choices have to be made.  

    You guys deserve appreciation not the cruel one-sided bashing that happens when generally nice people start posting on the internet.

    I am not hear to bash you.  I am here to "encourage" your Marketing peers to be tougher in negotiations with the carriers.  Microsoft is gorilla in negoitaions for other markets and caves like a wimp to the carries.  Microsft and the US technology market are both suffering in global competetiveness by from carrier technology expansion restrictions.  The US phone market is 2-3 years behind the functionality available to japanese consumers.

    Make sure the your product managers cease to let you be shackled and slowed by too many restrictions to too much stripping of technology from products released to consumers.


  200. volo says:

    This is the kind of stuff that proves that Windows Mobile is not made for users, but for partners.

  201. Koen Lapauw says:

    Our VPN doesn’t work anymore.  Where can i change the default dhcp server ip adres ?

    This ip adres interferes with our network.

    I dont like to remove features and replace them with less performant features that are more easy to implement. Both should be in WM6

  202. DrAT says:

    It’s sound environmental policy. Each time a feature is ‘turned off by default’ I check my older devices to see if they will still work together as I want them to. If they won’t, I don’t upgrade. I’ve saved a small fortune in cash and and a fair chunk of landfill… and I’m still connected.

    Someone had better catch on to the power of those that actually buy and use these things.

  203. Justin says:

    I just recently purchased the Blackjack 2 with Windows Mobile 6 software. before i had the Blackjack with Windows Mobile 5 and it connected just fine with my Bluetooth hnadsfree adapter, now with mobile 6, it is unable to connect? Is there a software download somewhere to resolve this issue?

  204. J.P. says:

    I can see how ICS would be better if I can receive a call and still be online. DUN is very convinient because it works like a regular modem. I’ve never used ICS, but will consider using it now if I can get to receive calls and be on the phone at the same time. As long as it’s a one time set up.

    Josue Porres

  205. Alan says:

    I find that ICS is good, but whenever it is enabled, I could not receive incoming voice call…I am using Asus P750 WM6.1 Is it phone problem? Or is there any patch I need to install?

  206. Paul says:

    So it’s now March 2009, almost 2 years after the original post and my TomTom will still not talk to my MS Mobile device.

    Maybe that’s why MS is suing TomTom, for being so backward and legacy??????

  207. Paul says:

    So it’s now March 2009, almost 2 years after the original post and my TomTom will still not talk to my MS Mobile device.

    Maybe that’s why MS is suing TomTom, for being so backward and legacy??????

  208. Jeremy Lake says:

    I recently updated my phone to a Palm Treo Pro, which has Windows Mobile. Reading your blog, I now know why I can’t get my Nokia N810 Internet Tablet to talk to my phone i.e. it needs Bluetooth Dun. Can you please bring back asap

  209. What is meant by "DUN Profile failed"?  Everytime I connect my laptop to the internet, this msg appears. how would I solve the problem.

    Thank you very much

  210. Peter Chen says:

    We are manufacturer of GPRS,EDGE CF Card. In WinCE.Net,

    WinCE 4.0/5.0, Pocket PC. WM5.0 . User can use embedded Dialing Network program to make internet connection. There is a place we can enter initial string for GPRS attachment. For example

    +CGDCONT. But on WM 6.0, this initial string has been removed. This make GPRS attachment is impossible. Remove DUN makes Dialing network is impossible to use.

    Please bring back Dialing Network with Initial string box.

  211. Netstud says:

    Peter Chen

    It’s possible, just must change some modem connections strings in registry

  212. anon anon says:

    I too abandoned using Windows Mobile devices (imate Jam then tmobile mda then tmobile dash) when DUN networking disappeared after upgrading WM on the Dash.

    As a very long time Windows user (and stock holder) I once again can only assume that while MSoft writes code, they rarely ever use their end products.

    Before upgrading WM on the Dash, using bluetooth to connect it to my laptop while traveling took a few seconds. After the upgrade I wasted a day trying to figure out why it wouldn’t work anymore, also tried some fixes that didn’t work.

    So bye bye Windows Mobile forever. I’m now using the cheapest phone Motorola sells with Edge and DUN/Bluetooth to hop on to the web from my netbook. Too bad Microsoft can’t be part of what’s going on now because of their plans for something that hasn’t happened yet.