Why so many examples in Visual Basic?

I’ve received a few queries lately as to why MSDN – and Microsoft as a whole – has become more focused on producing Visual Basic.NET examples and code snippets in our articles and presentations. The reason is two-fold.

First, while I can’t publicly state the actual numbers, I can tell you that there are many times more Visual Basic developers than C++ and C# developers. Therefore, basic business sense would indicate that – since it’s not economically efficient to produce examples in all languages – we produce examples in the language used by the majority of developers using our platforms.

Second, we’ve spent a good deal of time and money evaluating how each group of programmers reacts to articles and presentations when the code is in the another language. These statistics show that the majority of C++ and C# developers are more apt to read an article that contains Visual Basic.NET material than the reverse. In other words, a very high percentage of Visual Basic developers will not read an article if it contains C++ or C#.

I’ll leave trying to surmise why this is true to the reader. However, my personal opinion is that C++ and C# developers are much more accustomed to class libraries than Visual Basic developers. As a result, they can more easily look past the exact language semantics of a .NET example written in Visual Basic and focus instead on the .NET types/classes being used. Visual Basic developers – on the other hand – coming from a less object-oriented background of Visual Basic 6, already have the learning curve of trying to learn a new way of developing software without the added overhead of also having to convert the language syntax.

Whatever the reasons for this phenomenon, our research has shown that producing examples for presentations and articles in Visual Basic enables the broadest reach to all of our developers.

Comments (240)

  1. tzagotta says:

    As a C# developer, I really don’t like seeing examples in VB. While I can typically understand a VB example, I often like to copy-and-paste sample code and try it out, to experiment and learn about the technique. If the code is in VB, that is a lot less useful.

  2. tomarcher says:

    tzagotta, you actually just made the point. While you don’t like the VB examples, you can still function with them and convert them. In our studies, the majority of VB programmers won’t even read the article if it has C# or C++. Therefore, it’s really a case of the following:

    * We can have a much smaller percentage of programmers (C#/C++) not like the fact that it’s VB, **but** they will read and find the article ultimately useful after converting the code


    * We can have a very large percentage of the programmers (VB) not even read the article

    This is ultimately why we decided to post in mainly VB.

  3. Pazu says:

    There are community sites to transform VB->C# and vice versa. MSFT should operate such site offcially on MSDN web and put links to tranlsate the example on-the-fly within the its text. Providing just single langugage would be then enough !

  4. tzagotta says:

    Tom, sure, I can convert VB to C# and vice-versa (just as any VB programmer could), but my point is that if the example is in VB, it takes me 10x as long to use because of the need to do the conversion, and I usually figure it is not worth the time.

    For some context, I am thinking more about code examples that are say 50-150 LOC. Really short examples are not an issue, but those tend to not be as helpful as the longer examples.

    Pazu’s idea of automatic conversion is a good idea. Otherwise, I think that MS should be committed to providing most examples in its top 3-4 supported languages, e.g., VB, C#, C++, and maybe J# (not sure about the popularity of the last one).

  5. tomarcher says:

    Pazu, it’s not nearly so simple.

    That’s like saying we don’t need to localize our Dev Centers because someone can put them through babelfish. Sure, you can convert simple sentences, but not complex sentences, paragraphs and articles. When you attempt to do so, the text get mostly converted to the target language. But it’s grammar is poor and the much of the original meaning is lost.

    Likewise, you can easily convert one .NET programming language to another when it involves simple tasks like making calls to methods/functions. However, when it gets more involved than that, there are specific, subjective ways to properly code in a given language that are much too complex to put into a translator.

    Just ask anyone that performs the task of coverting or migrating systems from one language to another and they’ll tell you the task is not as easy as it seems.

  6. But at least if you use the existing converters (VB.NET <-> C#) out there, such as the one at http://www.developerfusion.co.uk/utilities/ … sure they have their limitations, but you at least have a much better starting point to go from.

  7. tomarcher says:

    Thanks guys for all the great feedback, but this conversation is turning from "Why VB examples?" to "Why not all languages?"

    I will say that we’re actively working on:

    1) Getting authors to submit samples in both VB and C#

    2) Investigating options regarding providing multiple langauges.

    However, for the time being when the article has to show a single language, I hope that I’ve answered the question as to why that language will generally be VB.

  8. thesinglestep says:

    tangent – the point about there being more vb.net developers is troubling to me, as a look at most .net job boards indicates an employer preference for c#.

  9. John Walker says:

    Well, any good coder can fairly easily read c# or vb.net code and understand what’s up. If it were up to me, I’d use c#, but my company’s apps are vb.net.

    Seems to me for the past 4 years most code samples have been in c#. Nice to see the change.

  10. Wil says:

    > 1) Getting authors to submit samples in both VB and C#

    > 2) Investigating options regarding providing multiple langauges.

    # 1 sort of belies MS’s claim that under VS2005, C++/CLI is a "first rate" language for .NET devekopment. See the discussion in


    I therefore hope more attention will be given to # 2.

  11. Mark Jackson says:

    I agree, in that I use both c# and vb.net depending on what I am asked for. The language it’self is one of preference. If any potential member of my development team have a problem understanding the gist of sample code in either language I wouldn’t employ them.

    I hear that vb.net developers outnumber c# developers 3 to 1 or more, so by all means publish code in vb.net

    Most important to me is to be able to find good solutions to problems written in managed code, and there are getting to be mre all the time.

    Good work guys.

  12. Paul says:

    I am predominantly a VB programmer but actually prefer my examples in C#, as it forces me to convert the code and hence take the time to dissect it. If I get VB code it is just too tempting just to copy and paste it.

  13. Andrew Way says:

    Thanks for the change. As a VB programmer for many many years, and having successfully got my head around how .net classes work I can read (but not write) C# examples.

    I’ll always prefer, if I can find the sample in vb.net, but if the only answer I find via google is published in C# I can get the idea pretty quickly.

    I think this shows a bit of back-flip for MS – when .net was originally being pushed (by MS) I was told "you may as well learn C# because the classes are the same" – this would be like putting a 10 foot brick wall in front of an Everest style learning curve – so I stuck to VB and put up with the majority of samples (especially early releases) only containing C# versions.

    My guess is they realised there are a LOT of VB programmers out there, and if there’s one thing MS is good at, it’s catering to the masses.

    (However, due to a non-object oriented heritage most of the VB programmers I generally come across are crap at writing .net code and I’m sure a C/Java based background would be much better)

    Anyways, I’m looking forward to the change, and look forward to more examples in VB.net – maybe some of the VB "old-timers" will "unlearn what they have learned" and catch up on the object-oriented approaches to programming.

    Have a look at what CSLA can do, with (almost) all vb.net code and you’ll REALLY start to see how .net was supposed to be used!

  14. Khan says:

    VB.net originates from VB i.e. the first version of VB was just BASIC since that time microsoft is developing naturally the consideration will be more on visual basic

  15. Khan says:

    VB.net originates from VB i.e. the first version of VB was just BASIC since that time microsoft is developing naturally the consideration will be more on visual basic

  16. Inciteman says:

    Wow! Thats exactly the way I am, I will not even bother reading C# or C++ articles, but I will read VB examples, since I know how it works and at the time being is the only language I know, so I figure ahhh.. whatever I’ll come back to this article when I know C# but otherwise i won’t even bother.. Good Work! Thanks for the VB CODE!!

  17. Pierre says:

    Well… Does Microsoft want to tell me that I can do in VB everything I can do in C++ ? Or vice versa ? The answer is no.

    If the samples are in VB or C#… OK… but the C++ samples are missing. That’s the point.

    I’m still working in C++ because I can’t do what I want to do with C# ou VB. These are different languages targeting different needs. If I use C++, this is because I can’t use C# or VB.

    You say "there are many times more Visual Basic developers than C++ and C# developers". But how many times more software released in C++ than in C# ou VB ?

  18. simplegeek says:

    I’m really happy to see more VB. C# has been the fresh new language from Microsoft and the media darling. Even though there are millions and millions of Visal Basic developers out there the editors at MSDN have chosen to favor C# in the majority of articles written in the last couple years.

    If most developers prefer to read articles written with their preferred language (and skip articles written in the other language — as many have said in the comments) then it makes economic sense for Microsoft to solicit articles in the more popular language (VB).

  19. I don’t think arguments such as 3:1 ratio of VB to C# programmers means anything. There is enough of each to need to cater for both.

    The thing to remember about including a C# example is that it effectively expands the casual readership to not only C++, but also J#/java, and javascript, since the syntax is so close.

  20. rei says:

    Thanks Tom,

    I was wondering why it’s the way it is too. I hear a lot of gripes and groans, and as a C#er I’d rather see C# examples myself, but honestly, I think it’s for the better that examples be written in VB.

    I don’t mean this in a bad way, but the rest of us are more adept at reading code in other languages – that includes C++ers and Javaers.

  21. Paul Reid says:

    Since .NET includes a code generator (CODEDOM), it hardly seems like an ASPX page to translate the code is really that hard.

    You could just upload the EXE or DLL and use reflection to generate anything you want.

    I’m not buying it. You guys are being lazy instead of cutting edge.

  22. rei says:

    There’s one that translates from code here: http://authors.aspalliance.com/aldotnet/examples/translate.aspx

    The problem with this is that there’s no guarantee that the translated code will be correct, much less will it be canonical. Cleaning up code like that is as mundane and uncertain as fixing bugs.

    Converting from a compiled assembly doesn’t work either, because the compiler optimizes the code and makes it less legible than the original (try Lutz Roeder’s Reflector). It also omits comments and formatting, which is crucial to documentation code.

    Sure, either might be "good enough" in a lot of cases, but to professional documentation authors, "good enough" isn’t good enough.

  23. Travis says:

    So, most people that are VB, don’t want anything to do with C++ right, because they dont want to translate the language? maby there is some way to develope a program that would help with this process of Translating different programming languages to the needed one. Is this Possible Tom?

  24. Jeremy says:

    Developing samples and documentation in JUST Visual Basic is an excuse, not a solution. As a developer who works in both VB and C#, I can tell you that I prefer the examples to be in both languages.

    There is nothing more frusturating than translating 1,000s of lines of VB into C# so that I can demonstrate something to our staff which write mostly in C# and C++.

    If Microsoft is no longer committing itself as heavily to the C# language, maybe it’s time we looked into moving back towards Java (guess what Java examples are written in? yup, you guessed it, Java!).

  25. Snowy says:

    I don’t buy the ‘3 to 1’ argument either. I find it hard to believe that an a company with your resources can’t or won’t be bothered to have C# examples.

    Your argument is really along the lines of "We’ll hope the C# coders will be flattered that we consider them smarter than VB coders they’ll take on examples conversion as a challenge rather than a hindrance".

    I’m a C# programmer with a C++ background, and there’s enough pressure in development without having to do a conversion that for the longer examples may take a considerable time in itself to convert and debug.

    By not providing the C# you’re showing you either don’t have the resources (unlikely for MS) or you have some grand scheme to subliminally turn people away from C#, in the same way you put out J# to muddy and confuse the Java community: ie. get a competitor out there, then slowly wither support for it.

  26. Jeff Boeker says:

    As primarily a standard C++ user, a lot of the sample code can be tough to parse. Thing like using GDIPlus or database calls are not such straightforward translations. I do think that C# and VB code sample are roughly interchangeable.

    Again, if the translations are so simple that you expect the reader to perform them, why couldn’t the author likewise perform them. Alternatively, you could allow readers to type in and comment on code samples from other languages. Even if they weren’t official Microsoft sactioned code samples they would still be useful.

  27. Matt says:

    Can we have the exmples in MSIL? All developers on .Net should understand it and it’s language agnostic… 😉


  28. Mads says:

    It would be cool if Visual Studio could switch language on the fly…

    Like, if I have a codefile written in VB, I could click the button "Switch to C#", or something like that 🙂

  29. Pdxdude says:

    Why did you guys bother to introduce C# if in the end you start whining about MSDN support. C++ and VB would probably be enough to cover everything. When you say C# you mean .NET. When you say VB or C++ you will need to think twice. Why not create all samples in C# if it is .NET.

  30. Billyboy says:

    Visual basic is the best language anyway. Why use C++ or C#?

  31. tzagotta says:

    Billyboy: nice try. You didn’t think someone would fall for that, would you?

    Might as well discuss the best religion, best color, or best ice cream flavor.

  32. Terry Van Gemert says:

    While examples are in VB it would be nice to know how things are transfered to a C level Code. I use both C++ simple COM object to get the speed i need to process and display data.

    The process of how to properly pass an Image from a dll directly would more helpful then creating a DIB Data in byte format then saving the bytes to file so as VB6.0 could pick up the image, not to mention other Objects other then the standard types. Arrays are by far clumsy but requiered SAFEARRAYs.

    I am a VB Programmer which was taught both languages but use VB as an interface development tool, then access my oun C++ ActiveX Controls or Simple COM Objects visual studio (7.0 or 6.0)to get the job done.

    More examples are requiered in how to get the OLE ATL objects to more advantage of processing to limit how much we need to access the actual harware and leave that as the last step on the update of information.

  33. Stuart Carnie says:

    Whilst I’m primarily C++/C#, and it is a bonus to have the example in C# (for immediacy of Cut/Paste), I will read examples in any language (VB.NET, J#, Java, assembler 🙂 ) to understand the principals. And the VB-C# code converters do help in getting quick results, that one can later refactor.

    As Tom pointed out, the majority of C#/C++ engineers are more likely to read the examples, regardless of the language.

  34. Stuart Carnie says:

    Whilst I’m primarily C++/C#, and it is a bonus to have the example in C# (for immediacy of Cut/Paste), I will read examples in any language (VB.NET, J#, Java, assembler 🙂 ) to understand the principals. And the VB-C# code converters do help in getting quick results, that one can later refactor.

    As Tom pointed out, the majority of C#/C++ engineers are more likely to read the examples, regardless of the language.

  35. zzz says:

    Have the documentation/sample people try the VB samples with VB>C# converter, if the converted code doesn’t work ok against test case, then that sample is so complex it should be hand converted to C#.. Most simpler samples should be simple enough for a format preserving conversion. Or have some 3rd party company convert the samples and have them verify the results of it too.

  36. manish says:

    U guys dont want smart programmers but dumb guys who only go the usual way. Putting code in c++ would expose the hidden impl of yr code. U are trying prove VB better over C++, thatz why u even stopped vc++ certification.

    i dont know why u dont want good programmers rather than dumb idiots

  37. marks says:

    Regarding Jeremy’s comment about using Java, if we could only say that Java is Java is Java then we might be getting somwhere. VB.Net is VB.Net is VB.Net. The basic question of VB verus C# seems to have something to do with the law of supply (C# developers) versus demand (VB developers)

  38. Brian says:

    I use the examples not only to figure out how to do something but to also learn and understand best practices which I assume your examples use. My being able to view and understand examples in VB when I am writing in C#, regardless of how easily it can be translated, does not show me C# best practices.

    I also cut and paste as per the other comments.

    The only reason I will view a VB example is because there is no C# example available. Everytime that happens I swear under my breath at someone in some company and I lose a little bit more of my life force.

  39. I come from a Borland Delphi background. Learning C# is hard enough. But learning C# is harder if samples are in Visual Basic. Not another language (which I won’t use anyway).

  40. Bruce Russell says:

    If it is concidered a true development community, there would be a mechanism for some industrious coder to submit converted examples back to the author and incorporate them. The real issue is time and effort.

  41. Neal says:

    Why doesn’t MS just finish implementing System.CodeDom.Compiler.CodeParser class that’s aleady part of the framework but has not been implemented. It would make this discussion obsolete!

    I don’t think it’s true that most vb devs don’t read articles just because the source is not in vb, I know I don’t. I suspect that it’s because VB devs are more passionate and vocal about there language because in the past it’s been rubished so much, by ignorant people who think that the language you write in determins how good a programmer you are.

    Just finish the CodeDom parser and give VB.NET the ability to write unmanged code and let that will be the end of it.

  42. a.c. says:

    If I’m looking for copy-and-paste code, any other language than the one I’m using is frustrating, right? I’m mainly into C/C++, so either C# or VB does not help much from that angle.

    If I’m looking for an idea on how to do a job, the example can be in anything I can read (except Perl, of course).

    The main question I have is not "why so many examples in VB", but why the quality of examples, source code etc. has decreased so much? I’m not speaking on the overwhelming aspx.net.vb.ascx.godknows.what samples… but I barely can find something MAPI, for example. In two years probably I’ll be asked "what a *** is CoCreateInstance?". And Explorer, IE etc. probably will still use it.

    Remember some (not so many) years ago, when samples were like WinDiff, Process Viewer, Exchange, SQL extended stored procedures … some of them now defunct, others dying in some obscure WinNT/Sdk/DoesNT/Matter folder on Platform SDK.

    Now I have to browse a N-DVD monstrosity just to find how wonderful I can open an ADO.whatever connection to a database in X ways and Y languages (and most of the time doesnt’ work, or when it comes to be really interesting for a beginner, it stops). Thanks, but no, thanks.

    Q: "You have to go to college to be a good programmer?"

    A: "No. You have to read code written by competent programmers."

    (quote from memory)

    Bill Gates said that?

    So where is the competent code? I barely can read a MSDN article today – I almost can’t follow the idea, I become bored an uninterested after several phrases. I am the only one? I wonder.

  43. Yong says:

    This is good news for current C# developers.

    Why? Not many C/C++/Java developers will learn .NET because they don’t want to learn .NET from VB articles while VB developers will stay with VB. C# developers will be in high demand.

  44. Rob says:

    I guess Liberalism has reached Microsoft. After the DEMs hand Microsoft there special purpose, they too have become coddlers. VB only programmers are among the most marginal of IT people. I read Mr.Man’s comments as saying we should ask Doctors to read and learn from Popup books because otherwise it is too hard for the patients to understand anything. Give Me A Break!

  45. tzagotta says:

    a.c., I think you are saying that you prefer big comprehensive examples, if I understand correctly.

    But I disagree – I like smaller code snippets that just show the topic at hand. If the snippet is in the "right" programming language, then I can copy-and-paste to my test application to try it out directly. I might even start with a snippet and morph that into "my" final code.

    Tom, I think we C# programmers might have to boycott MSDN if there are mostly VB examples.

    Just kidding.

  46. VBMan says:

    Yyou’re right. That IS good Basic (pun intended) business sense; took long enough to figure out! If you’re wondering when .NET will take off like VB.x did, it’ll be when the VB "Classic" devs commit to VB.NET. And you’re right, I don’t think they’ll be going to C#, or put up with having to read C# ONLY.

    Nice to see VB.NET getting the proper respect it deserves. After all, sounds like that’s what’s paying the Bill(s).

  47. P.H. says:

    Im learning vb 6 at the mo, moving on to .net and java next year, the course in my college doesn’t seem to be touching c++ or c# and i don’t understand why, especially as it has fairly good links with MS. I coded in Vc++ age 14-15 and found it to be a better stronger language. I have not coded in c#, but it has been recommended to me numerous times.

    It now seems like C derivative programmers are being left behind. And if it was the other way round, vb programmers would be in that situation, even if they do make up the majority. In fact, they would be in the situation they were in until the .net framework introduced further OOP elements. (As you can tell, I’m not new to the concepts behind this)

    So a simple solution, which really couldn’t be too hard, especially for developers as skilled as those working on this new technology. Print code in both.

    Interestingly enough, to the person who made the point about java, our course next year consists of VB.Net and Java, which i thought was a bit strange 🙂

  48. kdou says:

    After reading all this stuff i understood some things that i’d like to express. Firstly, Mr Archer says that Microsoft decided to provide the public with vb samples, cause from what it seems it’s the top of our interestings list. After that, he exactly says, after mr tzagotta’s first complains, that : "we are working on 1) Getting authors to submit samples in both VB and C#". It seems to me that something changed here. You firstly say that what you do right now is because of the people interests and that is the right thing to do at the moment and then you seem like to admit your mistake and try to correct it. Am i wrong? i really would like to hear your "final" conclusion on what "you" (meaning microsoft of course) are going to do about it. Finally i want to add that i am a VB programmer and i’ve never worked on c++ or c# but when something seems to me wrong i must add my opinion on it. After all, i believe that’s the purpose of this thread and to be fair the greatest thing you are doing right now is listening to the public’s opinion what most other corporations don’t do.

    My regards,


    P.S. forgive me for my english. 🙂

  49. Holly says:

    You got it, man. When I started – with pure VB .NET – I didn’t even think of looking at C stuff. I switched to C# and guess what: I read articles with code in VB, C, C++, C#, Java, … And yes, I even buy books in any of those languages to go on with C#. I think you hit the nail on the head – and so did Microsoft.

  50. Michael says:

    I’m generally of the opinion that if I can spend one hour doing something to save a hundred other people ten minutes each, then it’s definately worth doing, because that’s a saving of over 15 hours overall. In this case it’s a matter of the authors spending 1 hour to save thousands of people 1 hour each and really they are just being rude by not doing it.

  51. I’m currently using C#, but I can clearly get your points. I think it’s a true fact and a neutral point of view.

    I encountered the same problem with people around me using VB.NET. I don’t know, but in my personal opinion, those typical (just like Tom said, not to mention all) VB.NET developers are just too WEAK. With the ease of its specific language features, they’re just too stuck with the OVER simplification of those stuffs. As you said, I think VB.NET developers should be accustomed too to the base class libraries as well in order to understand overall meaning of source codes, rather than get stuck to specific VB.NET language construct.

    Though I’m currently using C#, it won’t be too hard to read and understand VB.NET (not mentioned VB) source codes. If currently, you have limited resources so that you can only provide sample in a .NET language, I think it’s a good decision to provide the sample in VB.NET. And by the time you have more resources later, I think you can (or must :)) provide another sample in C#, C++, and whatever .NET languages Microsoft supports.

    Out of topic, but now (despite whatever language I read), I found that it’s hard to understand generic samples, especially those LINQ-related source codes :).

    Cheers people!

  52. Schneider says:

    If it’s such a big deal then one of you convert it and send it back so they can publish it.

    Just need MS to have a place to submit it….


  53. Brian E says:

    All this debate about what? I have used both VB.net and C#. Personally I use VB.Net. The comment "those typical (just like Tom said, not to mention all) VB.NET developers are just too WEAK" is wrong.

    I can follow C# code as well as VB.NET. I was always taught (especially with programming languages) the minute you know something -something new is out.

    So regardless of what language the "Code Snippet" is in, as a programmer you should be able to follow along and make your necessary changes.

    Or better still figure it out on your own. Then you can write it in the language you prefer.

    How about “Thanks Microsoft for giving us a place where we can go to get examples when we get stuck”

  54. Bob says:

    The fact that you are getting complaints from C# developers that are almost identical to those you got from VB.NET developers when there were few examples in VB.NET seems to be a strong indication that you should allocate sufficient resources to produce examples in both C# and VB.NET.

    That will also have the benefit of introducing those that only know one of the two languages to the other language.

  55. jimmyc says:

    This whole debate kills me. Im mostly use VB, but have used C#, and am one of the best DBA’s in my company,and btw the lead developer on almost every project I have ever been on. But I guess since I prefer VB im a WEAK programmer, I guess thats why I get paid the big bucks. If anyone wants I’ll bring the cheese to go along with the whine.

    For years I heard the same thing out of other VB programmers about all the examples being in C#. pfhttt. Having to read C# code made me a better programmer because I had to understand both languages. I even took C# code translated it into VB and sent it back to the author to post along with the C#. Why, because I could, because it helped me learn. Does it take me longer to understand something in C# than VB, a little, C++ on the other hand is close to greek, but I struggle through to LEARN. Its a lazy programmer who wont read an article because of the language the examples are in. 🙂

    Quit the stupid language wars, its the Framework stupid. Learn it and when you understand it, the rest will just be duh.

  56. tzagotta says:

    jimmyc, it’s not about the language, or the framework, or about being lazy. It’s about productivity, stupid. Given your success, I’m sure your time is in great demand, and I would expect you to understand this already.

    We had a software release today, another tomorrow, we’re releasing another next week – all different products. We are BUSY. The less time I have to spend decoding a foreign programming language, the more time I can spend getting real work done.

  57. cman says:

    Funny.. I used to be a VB developer, but noticed that there’s way more published in C# for 2.0 than for VB… so I learned C#, and there’s no going back.

  58. Michael says:

    C# is just so much closer to C++ and Java than VB is. I would imagine that C++, C#, and Java programmers combined outnumber the VB programmers. Sure, I can read a VB example, but in order to make it useful I have to convert it to C++ or C#, and most of the time I simply won’t bother — I can google for something similar in a language that doesn’t suck. C/C++ has been around for ages – I would argue that more code has been released in C++ than in any other language. Similarly, Java is the language of choice on Source-Forge — more projects use Java than anything else (and C++ is the number 2 language).

    Let’s appeal to the multiplatform languages out there so you can reach the larger audience.

  59. Kurt says:

    Where are all of these active VB programmers? The moon? India?

    This trend is very sad. I have only recently come back to the Microsoft platforms after avoiding them for a few years because it seemed that in fact the VB empire was beginning to crumble. There is money to be made writing in C# where we once would have used C++ or Java. I am so happy that I can set the language filter on my documentation to C# and JScript and see almost nothing but those languages that yesterday I was debating writing a modified search page for google that would in the background go through the first page of each results link and zap that item if it appears to only have references to languages other than the C related.

    I don’t see this heard of VB programmers out there anymore to tell you the truth. They are not on any of the asp.net boards, freelance sites or even the microsoft forum like they used to be. Everybody seems to have picked up C# around here.

    I would like to say "a really good programmer doesn’t need to" stuff about language choices, a software architecct and programmer is in fact someone who does need to choose his languages carefully. I hire a lot of programmers who do both C++ and C#. I hire them because the basic patterns mix nicely and I do a type of software that has very very tight timelines. I don’t hire them because "they are smarter and more experienced as a while than VB programmers and can easily translate documentation from other programming languages". We’re supposed to be doing cutting edge stuff here with these bleeding edge tools we’re paying you so much for. We should be able to read about the patterns of that cutting edge stuff written in our current language.

    I mean, I don’t remember anybody writing the VB manuals in COBOL when I was a kid…

  60. Sebastian Lucas says:

    If you want delete it but send me an email at delsilucas@gmail.com with your answer.

    Hi, i just wanna know if is true that OpenGL it’s no longer supported (if it’s layered with d3d it’s like not supported to me).

    Why you guys do this? i like microsoft (that’s the true), and what users will be use the new aeroglass experience? only employees of microsoft.

    Please… take care of OpenGL.

  61. One of the more interoperable languages that compile to the (XML)Extensive Language Markup the Universal Language for Data Exchange!

  62. EgyDeveloper says:

    First it is clear that the readability of Visual Basic syntax incredible over the syntax of Visual C#, which make the VB code more understandable by most developers.

    Second, if you are VB guy or C# guy, all of you is a .NET guys, working with the same BCL (Base Class Library).

    So I think it is right for examples to be in VB as a general trend, and everyone will be able to enjoy the article and code!

  63. Steve says:

    "First it is clear that the readability of Visual Basic syntax incredible over the syntax of Visual C#, which make the VB code more understandable by most developers. "

    That is a farce – VB is a pain to read, C# is much much cleaner.

  64. tzagotta says:

    Readability is a function of the reader – what they are used to. A native French speaker would find text in French more readable than a native English speaker. The same is true for programming languages.

  65. cer says:

    What I don’t understand is this: Microsoft tells us that there is very little difference in the languages, which being a developer of c++, c#, JAVA, J#, and vb solutions, I believe is true. However, as my hobby, I develop video games in VB.net. If you search the Dec. 2005 DirectX SDK for "*.vb" you will find one file, so needless to say, I am used to converting my samples, but would like to see a fully coded sample, for best implementation, and sometimes copy and paste functionality. As far as most samples, I would just as soon see discriptive pseudocode.

  66. MR T says:

    Efficiency in the language of choice is an issue. If there are differences between programming identical code in different languages people would like to know the reasons why. Do you need to perform additional steps in C# or VB ? What is the best or correct way to do something for robustness ?

    This is not an issue of readability but one of poor documentation. If all languages are going to be nearly identical in implementation then there should be polymorphic examples derived from the same source where someone would just request an example in the language of their choice.

  67. Mike Gale says:

    I’ve seen web articles translated by bands of contented readers into Russian, Greek, French…

    Maybe there’s an opportunity here. Volunteer translators who rework an article into JScript.NET and all the others.

    In some cases the write-up is going to be different, in others the article can have the control which says look at the code in … F# …

    Then you can introduce the the MVT designation for the great translators!!!

  68. Greg Young says:

    It would seem to me that there are numerous language->CodeDom parsers and numerous CodeDom->language converters …

    Given there are some things which do not fly with the CodeDOM but 99% of the code being discussed does.

  69. Ed says:

    Personally, I learn a great deal more by doing the conversion to C# manually, vs. cutting/pasting the code.

    While it’s nice when examples in multiple languages are given, if the resources are not there to do so, VB does seem to be the language that makes most sense.

  70. Jony says:

    I think that regardless of the language, "coded" help should be understood by logical content and not by the language specification. Anyway, that’s my opinion, thanks.

  71. Andrew says:

    The one disadvantage I can see with using VB instead of C# is that C# is, in my mind, a little bit more syntactically formal. I am slightly concerned that new code samples will be written with certain of VB’s "productivity shortcuts" in mind.

    As long as the article editors encourage explicitness in the sample code, I’m cool with it…

  72. Jon says:

    I’d really prefer samples in C#. It has been my understanding that C#/C++ have features that aren’t supported in VB.NET. I remember having to convert GDI+ JPEG compression code I found in VB.NET to C#. It was not fun. I am not a C#-head (having to work in PHP and occasionally Java) but as a web dev I sure appreciate being able to work in something syntactically closer to javascript.

  73. Will says:

    Another reason for starting with Visual Basic examples is that VB reads closer to pseudocode or natural language than C#.

    I think that is one reason others are more likely to translate vb to their language of choice.

  74. Shaun says:

    I’d like to see those numbers. I can tell you that when I search the Internet for .NET code, it is almost always in C#.

    Microsoft.com is really the only place where a find a plethora of VB code.

  75. enki says:

    There is one problem in your statement. In early ears of .net framework, there was most documentation and exams in C#, so I moved from VB6 directly to C#.

    Now you betraying some of your developers which made same switch and which want to see examples in their new language.

    Personally, I don’t read examples in vb.net. I like nice and clean code (for example IBS Portal), because I can find some new technique there.

    What I am trying to say is that there aren’t only copy&paste beginners. I would like to see examples only to read them, even if they are totally unuseable for me.

  76. ben says:

    who really cares? the point was made that c# developers can understand both languages more easily than vb developers. stop gripping & start writing code so that you can start you own company & do whatever you please.

  77. tzagotta says:

    ben, based on the number of comments to this blog post, I would say a lot of people care.

    I think the take-away point of many of the comments is that MS customers expect MS to provide examples in the primary .NET supported languages. Some folks don’t mind looking at other languages, while other folks do mind it.

  78. Ty Babcox says:

    My favorite examples have the code in vb and c#.

  79. Language Neutral Observer says:

    There are several interesting observations here. Firstly, the change in trend MS from showing predominantly C# code to predominantly VB.Net code. I believe that the initial stance from MS was to entice the C/C++/Java community to .Net so C# was the logical choice.

    Now the trends show that the majority of VB6 programmers have stayed put and not migrated to VB.Net. Add to that the years of complaints about the lack of VB.Net samples and MS finds that it’s in their best interests to encourage these guys to ".Net land". Hence, the change to VB.Net samples. Although, I believe the resistance to moving to .Net is mostly because of legacy apps having to be maintained rather than the availability of VB.Net code samples.

    The second point is that MS already do code swapping on their sister site http://www.gotdotnet.com where you can check out/copy/paste the solutions in VB, C#, J# and C++ by the click of a button. NB. User provided solutions, however, are not editted by MS and so appear in the language of choice for the developer.

  80. BillB says:

    Whenever you post sample code, it should be authoratative. Developers using the code should have a reasonable assurance that it functions as advertised and represents an (if not the) approved way of accomplishing a given task. It should also give some assurance that if Microsoft makes changes to the underlying technologies that result in the given code sample breaking, then there would be a consistant and approved workaround for developers who relied on it.

    When you provide code in just one language, here are at least some of the resulting problems:

    1) Every developer interested in using the code but in a different language must ‘translate’ it. That’s horribly inefficient as it represents thousands of unnecessary development hours.

    2) The translations will most certainly be inconsistant and prone to introducing errors.

    3) The work-arounds for future broken code will have to be translated too and may not work.

    4) Calls to tech support and Microsoft Developer Support increase. These latter are some of the most expensive to Microsoft, and cut deeply into company profits.

    All of that leads to irregular performance of applications, a potential for data loss?), and everyone — our mutual customers and developers — having a less-than-stellar Windows experience. End-users will continue to view Windows with caution (if not disdain). Developers in particular are less likely to view the .NET platform, and Vista as programming paradigms they want to tackle or work with. Surely Microsoft has to consider those major problems.

    So here’s a suggestion. When you create sample code in one .NET language, get someone who is competent to create parallel samples in the other languages. Then post them where everyone who wants to can access consistant code they can Trust.


  81. If you have #develop, there is a conversion utility built into it that allows you to quickly convert from one language to another. Youc an use this to quickly copy and paste the vb.nET example to C#. I highly suggest it. However it boggles my mind that MSDN can’t do the same thing automatically, its easy to convert VB.NET to C# but occasionally you get some issues on indexors. Pick up a copy of #develop. Its great and the conversion tool is worthwhile. If MS made their samples in C# it woudl be easier to convert internally to VB.NET than the other way around. Also, they want to retain their VB.NET sheep but this also makes Java, Python etc developers less apt to try to convert it to C# as well. They are missing out on NEW developers to .NET the more they focus on VB.NET.

  82. iGNOSaurus says:

    Prefering VB.NET over C# is a bad idea. The number of actively used languages in the "C"-family (that is, curly-braces, common looping-constructs, branching) outnumber the number of languages in the "BASIC"-family easily. The number of developers shouldn’t be of any concern; it will be a long time before VB-derivatives will be considered "enterprise".

    MS, don’t put all your eggs in one basket. By preferring only VB.NET you are facilitating migration for existing VB-users, but you are making migration harder for enterprise-developers currently using Java, which is probably a more interesting target demographic anyway.

    In my carreer as a software developer, I’ve coded 20+ languages, including popular choices such as C++ and PHP. I also started out doing BASIC with linenumbers. I still find VB.NET hard to read. It’s just way to verbose. To me, it’s a deal-breaker; I just won’t buy books that use VB.NET as the example language. I will probably shy away from sites that exclusively use VB.NET as their example language too.

    If .NET is to become synonymous with VB-development, this will be a major blow for the enterprise-developers. VB is still "tainted" among many developers as a hackish language unsuitable for large applications. By prefering VB.NET over C# in MSDN you are seriously alienating the market you should be most concerned with conquering.

    My 2 cents.

  83. John says:

    Sorry for the late comment, just ran across this.

    Code examples should be in at least three languages – C#, C++, and VB.Net – if not more (e.g. JScript.Net, J#, IronPython). It’s a matter of spending the money or not, and it should be spent.

    Documentation is key to an educated developer base, and deserves the resources it requires to do it well and completely. Any argument not to do so is a cop-out.

  84. R J Gibson says:

    As a C, C++ programmer/lecturer I understand completely that Visual Basic has much broader support. It’s just easier to get along with..and it’s where Bill and Microsoft really started with Microcomputers, not DOS and PCs as popularly believed by the media hypos.

  85. Jon Rista says:

    While I can say I fully understand the reasons behind the decision to produce the majority of tutorials in VB.NET, it also sounds like that means "only" a VB.NET example.

    I’m not afriad of converting between languages, as most are fundamentally the same. As a long time programmer of 18 years, having started out in Pascal, and progressing through C++ and now C#, I do have issues with VB as a language in general. As a result, I avoid it like the plauge, and avoid including any developers on my team who only have experience with VB.

    Granted, VB is what made Microsoft what it is. As a large developer base is key to an operating systems success, VB was a wise business move. But I think I’m correct in understanding that this move to VB tutorials means the situations where a guy like myself would need an example, will also be the situations that now have VB rather than C# examples. I can’t stand reading VB, even just to get the gyst of something, which now pretty much kills off my primary source of example code.

    My hope is that for significant articles that present significant or complex examples, you’ll put in the effort to produce both VB.NET and C# examples.

  86. Luddite says:

    The comment of 3:1 VB to C# is that 2 of 3 VBers are still using VB6.

  87. Joseph says:

    I know how Microsoft can resolve the dilemma that C# developers (like myself) face when presented with example source code in Visual Basic .NET only – the beta of the MSDN site.

    Since you can customize the "look & feel" of the beta MSDN site via your .NET Passport login (for example, Change country/region), have a personalized setting that would allow you to view example source code anywhere on the beta MSDN site after you login in the CLR-compliant language of your choice (Visual Basic .NET, Visual C# .NET, Visual C++ .NET, Visual J# .NET, etc.)

  88. Eric says:

    VB programer are just more dummy!! ;o)

  89. Mani says:

    Hi tomarcher.. I am not suppose agree your point.

    Really I hate to programm in VB.NET, and love to do it with C#..

    Where is the Language Chooser Tab …

    Basically converting the code from C# to VB is simple and easy but from VB.NET C# bit complicated..

    We need to track all the variable declartion to find weather the statement is array or function and etc…

  90. BAStark says:

    Save a Tree – Drop vb!!!

    AddHandler/AddressOf, Inherits/Implements, Must Inherit/Not Inhertible, Dim, (Hijacked) As. . . and the notorious "shared" (someone please explain that to me!)

    What the %$%# is all that???

    VB promotes poor programming practice!

    The language is backwards.

    Force the VBers to learn C# . . . It will do them good! And maybe my workload might lighten up!

  91. Who can dispute the mastery of web development demands a mastery of client-side development as well as server-side development?


    Who can dispute that client-side web development does not require a mastery of the legacy C syntax and grammar?


    Thus, all code snippets for web development should be in C# because the syntax and grammar of C# coincides with that of client-side script. No need to fork the cognitive well-being of the web developer when reading code published as a sample.

    All code snippets for Windows Applications should be in VB.NET. No need to fork the cognitive well-being of the Windows application developer when reading code published as a sample.

    Publish web development code samples in C#.

    Publish Windows application code samples in VB.NET.

    This is a logical solution to the forked Microsoft programming language dilemma.

  92. Jon Rista says:

    Someone already put forth this idea, but it was summarily rejected (and for good reason).

    What about the option of having a built-in code translator, similar to that in the wonderful Reflector application created by Lutz Roeder, but have that be the backup option. The code generated by Reflector from CIL is certainly understandable enough.

    In situations where Microsoft couldn’t devote resources to writing examples in multiple languages, an auto-translator could generate source from the CIL behind the VB examples. At the very least, it would provide a functional C# example that was very similar to the original, even if it was lacking the neccesary C#-explicit language and style nuances.

    As I mentioned before, a guy with thourough programming knowledge and background is going to be less likely to concern himself with more entry-level examples, and will be most concerned about examples for advanced techniques that are probably new. While I would hope that Microsoft would develop native examples for the key languages, in situations where they did not, an auto-translator would certainly help.

  93. Logic says:

    What seems to be going on here is that VS2005 has attracted a lot of Php and Java coders who are now using the tool. So they need the samples.

    I have long been complaining that MS is devoting way TOO MUCH of the samples to C#. From what I see, there are more C# samples than VB. I complained about this http://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/archive/2006/01/07/434787.aspx#FeedBack for the second time.

    Thanks for taking a stand.

  94. tzagotta says:

    Here is a MSDN Magazine article describing an add-in that automatically converts C# code to VB:


  95. chriss says:


    Why not get rid of VB.NET and C#?

    You can program in EIFFEL.NET:


    and you get other advantages, such as multiple inheritance!

    Seriously, I have to program in both C# and VB.NET. I just can’t see any practical difference between the two.

    I have to code SQL, javascript, vbscript, WSE and also understand operating systems and networking when working as a security consultant. When you have to get your head around all this, what difference does a colon and a curly brace make?

  96. apettit says:

    why is MS risking angering/alienating any group(C#,VB, C++) by limiting to just 1 and telling the rest to figure it out?

    I don’t belive its VB programmers who are lazy, it seems to be Microsoft!

  97. Duckers says:

    Firstly I would imagine Mr Archers problem to be time, writing and testing examples in 3 languages takes 3 times as long, do you want a vastly improved product 3 years late just so you can have your hand held throughout the learning process?

    As well as this the internet is awash with excellent non-MS help, sites devoted solely to C++, C#, VB .Net all with blogs/forums and MS most likely know this.

    I always wonder if, like me, most programmers find the main problem is not syntax but library knowledge, especially in something as large as the FCL, therefore I appreciate what help is available in any programming language.

    I think too much emphasis has been placed on language syntax here, the .Net FCL is consistent across C#, VB.Net, C++ .Net and the first 2 are almost syntactically identical; its much easier for people to pick up all 3 languages as opposed to developing in VB 6 and trying to use examples in MFC or vice versa.

    What do I want? stable operating systems, better database management, and cheaper licencing. Can we have some of that please?

  98. DFox says:

    I’m glad to see an emphasis on VB examples. I’ve wasted hours trying to figure out how to re-write some C++ stuff in VB. The syntax of VB is understandable to newcomers at my company. I suppose that many developers are not primarily that. They are engineers of one sort or another, using VB to get results in their disciplines.

    What Tom’s answer might have included is that business that need to run "lean" can do it better with VB. Losing the learning curve equals dollars in the pocket.

    C++ programmers are typically of the "super soldier" type and are used to being "able to do more" in their language. So much for that. Will Microsoft let that continue with the largest number of developers using a "weak" lanuage develop lame or slow applications? I remember a day when the C programmers developed tight, well tested code. Now that they seem to be developing memory and power hungry code too, why not level the playing field a little bit?

    Bravo and thanks, Microsoft for easing the frustration of VB programmers.

  99. sourabh kumar says:

    to start off it is annoying that there are more code exampples in VB than in C#, but over the years of programming C# i have been able to understand most of the examples written in VB and implement then.

  100. Jamie Swindall says:

    Thanks for all the examples. Whatever language they are in!

  101. Jamie Swindall says:

    Thanks for all the examples. Whatever language they are in!

  102. jhouston says:

    Anything to make vb stand out more is good; very good. so much has happended since Feb2002 that we(vb coders) have lost identity. i am so tired of changing my toolset because the vendor did. I have vb.net, vb, vba, asp, asp.net,sql skills that have made me a wonderful living for 10+ years.

    C# is nothing more than something employers/recruiters can ask for thinking they’ll get better coders. Just like XML I get recruiters saying they see javascript skills and want me to code java?!?!?!

    Whats most important is if the code is readable, runs, and follows best practices….regardless of the language.

    i have rewritten so much crappy C# code into VB because some coder or offshore company snowed my employers into thinking it was the way to go.

    Long live good coders…what ever language they write in.

  103. Chuck Knight says:

    I would like to know too. If C# really is the next big thing at Microsoft, then pandering to a legacy language doesn’t make sense.

    We all understand the pain of shifting languages C/C++/Java/etc. sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and keep up to date on your craft.

  104. can't resist says:

    I have a better idea. Why don’t we come up with a new language. It seems like we don’t quite have enough options.

    How about "smashbrain" or "SB". Let’s make sure it’s so easy to understand that my grandmother can figure it out, after having 3 strokes. Let’s make sure that she can successfully use the language to impress her boss by writing a program to tell his secretary to come in with coffee every 15 minutes so he doesn’t have to. Never mind that it takes her only 5 minutes to write while it take 10 hours to execute, and takes 2 years to upgrade to SB.NEXT. This would be the new super language, can’t you get my vision?. This way we could hire bums off the street to start writing code and simultaneously solve the homeless problem. Drunk bums? Even better!

    But don’t bother posting examples in c# or c++. They won’t get it. I’m telling you now so you don’t make that mistake.

    And don’t stop there! We don’t need a good solid language with good solid capabilities and vendor support with a minimum of interference. What we need is more languages! More choices to muddy up the water! The more the better baby, keep ’em coming. Just make sure that each one caters to an increasingly less capable crowd and before you know it, monkeys will be writing code for us and all the world’s problems will be solved. There are LOTS of unemployed monkeys out there just waiting to spin out the SB equivalent of Hamlet.

    Please help with this Microsoft! It’s a good plan for world domination and I’m sure you guys could help! You’re so good at stuff like this!

    Now, bad jokes and offensive sarcasm aside — I am very confused as to why vendors keep coming up with more filler and less substance. There are plenty of ways to make a safe and usable C++. Every bit of productivity that was gained from a simple language like VB could have been accomplished through the inherent abstraction available in existing languages. Why not build frameworks and toolsets that make life in C++ as simple as it is in C#? Yeah you were on the right track with VB. Borland was closer though. At least they chose to take the most powerful language and make it usable, instead of making up some new language, ensuring that it wasn’t powerful, and then proceeding to make it somewhat usable. Ok so you’re not Sun and you didn’t think of Java. I know that hurts. Ok so C++ CAN be dangerous in the wrong hands. OK so there ARE some jobs that are probably better left to the in house IT guy. So you decide to come up with C#. Ok fine. And you decide to build a very capable set of platform libraries. About time.

    But why do you create yet another problem for an already problem-laced world of software development by imposing the new problem of "preference" into this world? Why does coding in your "preferred" language in your mind mean more productivity? Do we really need more obstacles? Do we really need to be bombarded with 6 ways to do the same thing? It would be bad enough if it really didn’t matter, if it were just preference. But on top of that, there are 6 ways to do most things, and yet some things you find that you just can’t do, unless you change your freakin’ "preference". All of this only costs more money and makes it harder to train people to do the DIFFICULT job that coding is.

    I think you’ve lost your marbles. Go look under the refrigerator. You might find a couple more languages under there while you’re at it. But watch out for the monkey with the steelie.

  105. Bill McClenny says:

    There are some sites that offer software to convert the source code from one language to another.

    Surely Microsoft has the resources to make such a translator to translate examples from one language to another.

    Why not build it?

  106. Why not just support them all without actually doing it yourself – follow the example of a site like wikipedia and allow viewers to post it, if you look at open source sites on the net people will often post conversions up after they are done, just make it simple enough to do and it won’t matter too much what language you put it in because for anything good it will be translated within a few weeks.

  107. Tony says:

    I’m a C++/C# programmer and if I see an article with only VB examples, I skip it – not worth the hassle to do the mental translation.

  108. Eric says:

    Providing less samples in C# is a disappointment, regardless of anything else Microsoft does. Moreover, since I (and not only me) do not have Visual Studio but only C# Standard I would say it would be sane to include both C# and VB.NET in *each* and *every* single product shipping with the VS IDE. That way at least we can compile those friggin VB.NET samples and maybe even use them.

    This will also show Microsofts’ commitment to VB *and* C# as first grade languages for .NET.

    As to the ‘3:1’ argument mentioned, did you also investigate how serious those VB developers are? Isn’t it so most casual developers will use it even after being warned twice? I agree with most arguments against this argument mentioned in this thread.

    Maybe you should rename VB/VBA to be Verbose Boundless (Antonym). That will maybe make sure new programmers will think twice before they pickup on it. And yes, C# *is* easier IMHO, regardless of my preference.

    Now on MSDN::: (20 jan 2005)


    Paste As Visual Basic: A Visual Studio Add-In That Converts C# Code To Visual Basic


    Hmm, I guess this can be done the other way round then, too, isn’t it?

  109. Jordan says:

    Something I learned from my college professors…how to be a programmer.

    Something to learn from the humble…what is the meaning?

    Something I learned from the wise…to use the right tool for the job.

    A true developer needs only algorithms and reference, not syntax.

  110. tzagotta says:

    Something I learned from my boss…how to work quickly and efficiently.

    The point is not whether I have the ability to convert VB examples to C#; it is whether I have the time and whether that is the best use of my time.

    A true developer is concerned with total effectiveness, not with busy-work like converting example programs from one language to another in order to understand a programming concept or API. This should be done already in the documentation.

  111. jhouston says:

    Why do the compsci/enterprise/c types say "you don’t need an IDE, just textpad"? I need my auto formatting, statement completion, intellisense!!! The IDE is everything to me.

    I get paid to write programs, not libraries, and they need to work; as soon as possible, as good as possible.

    One thing I have noticed. Nobody talks about how huge the framework is (12K types). Are you insane??? I can’t even learn another language besides english.

    Vb is dead then I will go into real estate. My passion is programming. Not being a snob.

    Is it just me or is every post on this column saying nothing new???? Maybe VB is for industries that new programs and not rocket science. Maybe its because America was built on small enterprise and VB coders serve them.

    Fortune companies like ENRON, AUTHOR ANDERSON, and WORLDCOM need the compsci/enterprise/c types who get 1/5 the work done, need 3x the developers to make the QA, UAT, SCC thing work for the compliance SOX types.

    Get my jist??? You can’t change what this country was built on. Until you make .NET as productive as VB6 the small enterprise will not come to the party. Go ahead and say stay away(hehehe)… that just what we expected.

    You can have the curly braces, textpad, etc. You must like it for the pain. That what I have kids for. Its one lifetime you get…use it or lose it.

    Answer me this… does Gates do C, are 7mm coders wrong, will you please fix the IDE so I can use whatever language you want me to without needing resharper or some other crutch to remain productive?

  112. CG says:

    We all know what the end result of seeing many VB articles will be…VB developers, if they don’t climb the learning curve will always remain lousy VB programmers, please no offense, this is what the article surmised.

  113. Ryan Steckler says:

    You could always allow the community to solve the problem for you by placing a link on each article that has examples only in VB.NET. The link would allow a community member to login and provide equivalent example text in C#/C++. Once the code was reviewed by 5 members or 1 employee it would become the standard example text for that article.

  114. Blah says:

    All I can say is that VB coders don’t know how to program. You even basically argued it yourself since C# and C++ people can convert VB into thier respective languages. I think this a real pity though. If MS wants the quality of applications to increase then why not make people learn a better programming language rather than catering for all the people which are still using a language which is way past it’s used by date. All MS is doing now is annoying people who have taken the time and effort to try and write better programs with a better language and probably making them wonder why they didn’t stay with VB. There’s a difference between just giving the consumer what they want and empowering them to want and use something better.

  115. chriss says:

    Could we move the dicussion to something more positive, rather than going around in circles?

    It does seem that the impetus behind the original decision is to move VB programmers from VB6 to using .Net. I made this transition when working on a very large enterprise project during the beta phase. I found that (at the time) most of the information available was in C#. So, after reading books with code examples in C# and having no problem at all with the syntax of curly brackets and colons, I transitioned to C#.

    It was easy to move to the new language, and the reason I did so was to take advantage of what the .Net framework could do.

    Because of this, if we want to encourage VB6 people to move to .Net, shouldn’t we be accentuating what the .Net can do over COM?

    A very clear advantage is the difference in security. Have a look at:


    The paper:

    Security Solutions Offered by Visual Studio .Net 2005 (Whidbey)

    demonstrates how far applications can move forward from a security perspective both within each application and within the enterprise.

    Wouldn’t more of this encourage the transition? I think this is what is required, rather than making allowances for familiarisation of syntax (ie. letting VB6 people know they can still use the Dim statement).

  116. Steve says:

    This thread is an embarsement to microsoft developers.

    Funny how Microsoft promotes C# as the language of choice for .NET but then caters everything to VB programmers.

    Most contracters I see that use VB also have very poor software design skills.

  117. blih says:

    Although I program in all of those languages in my contracting work, I find that most employees I see that try to use C# have dreadfully appalling software design skills.

  118. Manuel says:

    Let’s face it folks…VB is sloppy, sloppy, sloppy. VB promotes extremely poor development practice. BASIC was great for what it was intended to do originally: teach the basics f machine language and organization. Unforunately, through Microsft’s insistence, it has morphed into a sloppy, dreadful Frankenstein of a language.

    I started as a Pascal programmer. Now that was a well organized, thoughtful language for teaching more advanced, higher-level programming principals. I migrated to C in my professional career, then C++ and now C#. I simply will not buy books written by Visual Basic developers, nor will I read articles where examples are written only in VB. I have found such books and articles generally to be sloppy, poorly written or of the "follow these steps exactly" type. I don’t want exact steps to follow to achieve a result, I want the theory general overview of how to solve a particular problem. Unfortunately, MOST VB programmers don’t want to do the EXTREMELY important task of actually understanding what it is that a particular piece of code is doing – they just want cut and paste examples. Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy. Not to mention horribly ineffecient.

  119. manny says:

    Now that you mention you it… Either your spelling or your typing is sloppy:

    Check these out:

    Unforunately -> Unfortunately

    Microsft’s -> Microsoft’s

    principals -> principles

    ineffecient -> Inefficient

    How about grabbing a spelling book instead on your next trip to the bookstore. This makes me wonder if your code is just as sloppy… and stop dissin’ VB.NET programmers until you can spell right.

  120. Pete Montgomery says:

    This is unfortunate. Four points to make:

    1. C# is the de facto .NET language, and not having MSDN examples in it is broadly ridiculous.

    2. For the purposes of demonstration, the differences between code written in the core .NET languages are mostly syntactical and usually trivial.

    3. Even if the reader can translate himself, it is likely to be a bad use of his time.

    4. The idea of community translation has recurred throughout these comments. What a fantastic idea for Microsoft – you could build a whole community of translators with some kind of self-correcting/validating mechanism. A cross between wikipedia and experts-exchange… Think of the developer loyalty it would breed. There could be Microsoft certifications to be earned!

  121. DD says:

    Who else but Microsoft. By providing more VB examples they just discourage C/C++, JAVA, PHP developers to seriously consider moving to/using C#, especially when C# is trying to gain a larger based among developer (still a new language), and beside why even care about the VB6 folks, it’s not like they gonna switch to JAVA (Hah) they don’t know anything but VB, so they will eventually have to move away from VB6 (win32), because of the lack of support in the future Operating Systems (Vista is probably going to be the last OS (even through Vista might not provide support out of box) that will support VB runtime out of the box), and when that happens, VB6 will be done for the most part.

    (MSDN2 == VB) ? JAVA : C#

  122. Bo says:

    It amazes me that people seem to think that "because you use VB you are a bad programmer." Get real people! What makes a person a bad programmer is their knowledge (or lack thereof) in software design. I know plenty of C# programmers that are bad programmers. Same is true for VB programmers, C++, Java, Delphi, Cobol, Pascal, etc., etc.

    Good programmers know how to –

    *perform a good thorough analysis of the project

    *turn the results of the analysis into an object model

    *use efficient coding techniques and patterns

    *separate presentation logic from business logic

    *modularize your code

    *use good coding standards and naming conventions

    *etc, etc.

    And all this can be done (or not done) irregardless of what language you are using. The problem with bad programmers is that they do none of the above points. We have schools churning out programmers who have only been taught the "language" and not "software design". Look at the majority of the books being released. Every book out there will tell you, "2005 has generics this is how you code it.". No one is saying "this is generics, use generics when you need to….don’t use generics when you need to ….when using generics always do…..never do….". We need more "best practices and guidelines" books than we do "how to" books. We could get rid of VB altogether and guess what, we would still have bad programmers. As long as this "how to" trend continues you can expect bad programmers to be around for a while. If your focus is "I use this language so I’m a good programmer", then IMHO, you are probably a bad programmer, LOL!

  123. Mark says:

    VB is more prominent simply because it’s easier to train in initially and is therefore being taught in a more widespread manner than C#, at least in my experience (undergraduate CIS student), and at an earlier stage in a software developer’s training. Perhaps training in C# would be easier if Microsoft focused more on C# than on VB. Overall, there would be an increase in C# coders and less VB coders. There would also probably be less coders between the two; but, the average quality of software developed will likely increase because fewer undedicated, sloppy programmers would be tempted to get into coding.

    I mean, just the idea of programming in VB is less intimidating than programming in C#, so potentially sloppy VB coders will lose interest if the number of clients who request C# coding increases. I’m not saying VB coders are sloppy. I’m saying that, because VB is easier to comprehend than C#, more amateurs will develop using VB than C#.

    I’m talking about actual coding, not slapping a bunch of text and picture boxes together and calling it a program. In that case, VB and C# are about equal to each other. Also, code is only as sloppy as a coder makes it. However, there are more opportunities for lazy programming in VB than in C#.

    By having Microsoft promote professional programming practices more than just producing applications quickly, more consumers will be pleased with their applications and will operate more efficiently using them. This will hopefully lead to better business in IT and, potentially, a much more smoothly-running economy. It’s the quality over quantity argument.

  124. I definitely prefer C# over VB.NET, except for the VB.NET webcasts I presented , where it would have been awkward to have used C#. I generally use C#, I can express my examples better, there’s less chance of error, and you’re much more likely to get the content in a timely manner 😉

    The one issue I would raise is that there are language features in C# that do not map easily to VB, and I see many dual-code examples where the C# code is simply a lieral translation of the VB. I’ve seen many C# examples that didn’t employ the using(…){} syntax — apparently because it didn’t match the adjacent VB code (or maybe the author was more familiar with VB). I would definitely prefer that examples in any language leverage the language rather than being presented in some weird common subset. Frankly, I’d be happy with examples in F# if it illustrated a better approach to solving the problem at hand.

    And I’d definitely like to see some Eiffel examples.

  125. Tom Archer posts about MSDN preferring (or not) one language over another (link from Brian Loesgen):http://blogs.msdn.com/tomarcher/archive/2005/11/21/495282.aspx

  126. Steve Muise @ Neudesic says:

    While I believe the sheer number of VB programmers may in fact be greater (though that number may be skewed – since I would bet more C# programmers know VB than VB programmers know C#), my gut says that the whole story isn’t being told.

    What is the statistical make-up of the readers of the article? – It seems that a large number of VB programmers wear a couple of hats, thus having limited time to spend reading general programming articles, whereas C# programmers seem to be mostly Programmers and seem to treat their profession as a science to be studied.

    Then based on the number of article readers – what is the break down (percentage-wise) of readers actually copying and pasting code (or downloading) in one language or another?

    There are a host of additional questions – but the point being – just because there are statisically more people that know a particular language doesn’t mean you have gained the statistical advantage by catering to that language. There are host of questions around audience, sociological interactions, user perceptions, user response, value percieved/gained by the audience – and MS should tread carefully focusing on a particular audience based on world numbers.

  127. JB says:

    Some seem to be arguing that VB encourages sloppy programming because the user-friendly nature of the language encourages amateurs to take up programming. The more non-professionals programming in a language, the more "sloppy programming" will exist in that language. Is user-friendliness a defect in VB? I would say it’s a strength.

    Don’t be afraid of the amateurs; they are not a threat, they have a right to exist, and their inferior programming makes yours look better, which is a good thing, isn’t it? I for one applaud Microsoft for bringing power to the people.

    I’m sick of seeing this racist argument "VB is inferior because look at the people who use it". No, silly, look at the language. And the language is neither superior nor inferior to C#; it’s just more wordy, which some people prefer (if they can touch-type).

    Which language is easier to be understood, not in an absolute sense but by users of the *other* language?  I would guess that VB’s verboseness is less of a problem for C# people to read than C#’s lack of wording is a problem for VB people to read. Conclusion: although providing the code in both languages is best, if it must be one or the other, choose VB.NET.

  128. Richard in H-Town says:

    Can’t we all just get along?

    Just pick your language of choice and go back to your hole.  Just like everything else in this world…the choice of language is just that…a choice.  I have the right to choose whatever language I want to work with on a project.  Just because I choose to use one language over another doen’t mean I don’t know what I am doing.  Don’t dump on me because you don’t approve of the language I choose to use on MY project.

    I applaud MS for doing what they are doing.

  129. Victor says:

    if you want vb to C# for you to copy and paste just use reflector…that’s what I do..hehehehe

  130. Kolg says:

    Windows Stinks, Use Linux.

  131. Mattias says:

    It does not matter what language it is, if you are a programmer working on the Microsoft platform you should have a good understanding of VB, C# and C++. I prefer C#, but it is not that hard to read VB or C++. Honestly, if you can’t understand the syntax and you are too lazy to work it out, maybe it’s time to go back to your old job at KFC or change industry.

  132. I demand that all examples be written in Assembler.NET.  

    Also, I am Dutch.  I want all of the program code comments written in broken English so that they are more easy for me to understand.

    Very much thank you.

  133. sugar 10 says:

    C++ programmers have a choice between a wide variety of compilers and development environments.

    C# programmers have at least the option of switching to Borland or Mono.

    But people who choose to program in VB are pretty much stuck with a single vendor.

    So isn’t that a good enough reason for MS to encourage VB?

  134. nathaniel says:

    i think it’s because there Visual Basic.net Programming is getting more powerful by the minute. Think about it. when VB 6 came out it was at an ok speed, while compiling. but  Vb.net is easier to understand say than C++ or C# but it was not as powerful. now its getting more powerful and is getting eaiser to understand. i use to do most of my programming in VB.net but know i do it in C# because C# is simular. so i learn’t but i think C++ is history know i think Vb is the future.

  135. Warren Bullock says:

    I really like the community contribution idea is a winner. There seems to be enough passionate people out there to take part in writing translations for code samples.

    Here’s a quick view of the benefits:

    1. Microsoft gets to keep VB first policy and can churn out more articles quicker.

    2. The usual 15 minutes of fame for the really passionate writers and enthusiasts.

    3. Peer review would preserve the quality of all the conversions.

    4. Nearly 100% audience coverage (i.e. many languages)

    5. .NET Development gets a tremendous boost by having the most accessible code samples – unrivalled compared with any other platform on the planet, wins by sheer mass of volume (and quality).

    Adding a small financial incentive for successful and accurate contributions wouldn’t be all that difficult, and would further drive participation and promote best practices.

    Microsoft is fantastic for bringing technology to the common man, so finding the sweet-spot-multipliers is a good thing. Imagine being able to search for a ‘how-to’ and find a perfect example and article, in the language you prefer, every time?

    Go, you good thing.

  136. Patrick says:

    Thanks for mentioning about many examples in Visual Basic.  I frequently looked for help via Internet (Microsoft) and it mostly gave an example based on Visual Basic.

    I have no question about it because it is very understandable that Bill Gates wanted this! I believe that is favorite computer language and he had a right to tell Microsoft to write examples in Visual Basic.

    About me, I currently write code in C# and Java. I used to use VB 6.0 for 2 years and it was a good language, but I believe it has a lack of object-oriented programming as C# or Java.

  137. SteveR says:

    Just a quick point:

    doesnt matter what language its in really, we are just looking for a "How do we do this" most of the time anyway… Its the gist of the article, not the exact syntax, that matters. If you dont know the language well enough to work out the exact syntax in ten minutes, you arent going to understand the sample anyway 🙂 We really just need to know that this sample does this and this is the namespace that deals with it.

    And out of curiousity, why do people say that c# is the basis of .NET? I though MS released it all at once… having used both, its really only the readability and syntax that change??

  138. Dr_Sam says:

    I have been programming for about 23 years now, and even teach Windows and microcontroller/embedded systems programming in University level engineering courses… I have used and developed applications with just about every major language that has come out.  This topic seems to be another debate about which is the better language and you will never get a "correct" answer.  Convincing a Mexican that English is superior to Spanish is as hopeless as convincing a British pom that Spanish should be the the international language simply because more people speak Spanish than British.

    Advantages of VB over C#:

    VB generally is easier to learn, teach and use, because it looks closer to "English" than any other high level language around… it’s simplicity and similarity to "English" makes it closer to the language most "English-speakers" tend to think in… eg. "IF condition true THEN do this…"  and VB tends to flow well as a shopping "checklist", or a procedural "to do" list, much like a linear story being told.

    VB uses fewer cryptic symbols and trivial syntax used

    (far fewer rules & easier to learn than C# & C++)


    None, except for some translation effort required by C++/C# coders.

    VB.NET is now fully object oriented and can do everything that  C#.NET can do… and just as well in terms of performance speeds – especially with Managed DirectX and Direct 3D graphics – which can now run at about 95-98% as fast as "unmanaged" Direct3D applications created with old C++ , so now, VB coders can participate in developing advanced high performance 3D graphics applications which could only be developed by C++ programmers over the past 10 years… performance and features will always get better and faster over time…

    More VB.NET samples are being released so that Windows programming can be made easy for a larger number of programmers.  Developing Windows applications is not the exclusive patented right of C++ and C# programmers!  Who cares if developers write what appears to be "sloppy" code that you cannot easily understand!  If it works, it works!  And if development is done in a quicker and easier manner, with less learning effort and less debugging time, isn’t that a smarter way to develop?

    C# is a powerful, simplified version of C++, and has many things in common with VB.NET, but it is still not as easy or quick to learn as VB.NET… so Microsoft should show all their code examples in both VB and C# developers.

    In my opinion, C++ and C# are fancier versions of the original BASIC and FORTRAN, which came out first because they were easy to use… but they place more emphasis on external code libraries and classes.  The VB tradition has been mainly focused around procedural or linear  programming, which is simple and easy for most people to follow, because that is how we think and talk to each other.  VB should be promoted more because it saves much learning and debugging time and can help programmers focus more on the application tasks and functionality of the software, rather than trivial programming language details and syntax.

    The less that programmers have to worry about, the better and more productive they can be!  Just look at how long it took to get stable versions of Windows released.  eg. Windows 2000 and Windows XP SP2.  Why?  Because of all the bugs and errors associated with mostly C++ and cryptic code!

  139. r@jiv says:

    Its ok, I love both VB and C#, and I love converting VB samples to C#, but there should be some hints for C# and developers for other languages.

  140. Jarrod says:

    More VB developers than C++ or C#…… maybe, but are these VB developers creating anything useful, I doubt it (I’ve never seen anything writing in VB that isn’t smoked by an algorithm written in another language like oh I don’t know C perhaps……)

    I don’t use VB or C# because I want something that’s close to the language everyone uses and that language is called "C".  C++ code is mixed with C on a daily basis and to tell me that there are more VB developers than C++ makes me laugh because every **USEFUL** developer I know sticks to C.  If they stick to C that means when they go outside of the realms of C they use C++ (I know this, you know this, this topic makes no sense at all!)

    I too agree that MSDN does not have enought C++ examples (I don’t care about C++ since I use C, but VB or C# is completely useless to me and I’m 100% sure I’m the majority here)

  141. Mitchell says:

    By limiting the examples to VB you limit the future growth of programmers to only VB.  As a result you will continue to have a large number of VB programmers over C++.  Doing this only increases that gap.  

    As someone who has a desire to move toward C++ without code examples I ultimately will be lost at times because I wouldnt know where to begin with code conversion.  Granted most syntax can be easily recognized and converted but many  methods are not done easily by the entry level developer.  There would definately be a decrease in clean code development without examples by those who are forced to convert code in thier own creative and most inefficient ways as opposed to seeing how a professional coder would write a specific routine.  

    I would also say the number one reason for me not learning C++ is the current lack of good training materials and examples.  I prefer visual training first then book training to reinforce my understanding with code examples.  This really limits the learning potential for aspiring developers.

  142. Sam says:

    "Real" developers don’t need any documentation.

  143. Dallas says:

    Lets face it, VB programmers need their hands held a lot more than any other programmers – so lets let the baby programmers have their time with mummy.

    P.S. And to Kolg – I’d be happy to use Linux if it didn’t have some many bugs in it. Maybe MS can bring out a GUI less, royalty-free version of Windows for remote servers and single tasking embedded devices.

  144. Jean-Daniel says:

    Probably if you show C# code, the VB programmers would convert to C#. We all know that C# is a better language and it’s probably time that VB programmers make the step to C#.

  145. tzagotta says:

    Saying C# is better than VB, is like saying that the French language is better than the German language. In other words, it is illogical.

    To a C# programmer, C# is a better language.

    To a VB programmer, VB is a better language.

    There are probably very few programmers choosing to work in a language that they do not consider to be the "best."

  146. JHouston says:

    What about gamers versus business programmers?

    What about web programming versus desktop?

    What about library programmers versus ClientServer versus Ntier, remoting, and dcom programmers?

    Do you think I am not a worthy contemporary? Can you guess which languages I write in? Can I work for non fortune 100 companies and still be respectable.

    How are you with requirements, collaboration, class, and sequence diagrams? Have you read CodeComplete, PeopleWare, and the Mythical Man Month?

    Are you studying the history of your craft so as to not make the mistakes of your predecessors?

    I have done all of that, am self taught, not certified, and never taken a compsci class in my life.  Now can you guess???

    Either language is fine, as long as you don’t already know one and switch to the other to become someone else. Learn the other language to be better in the one you love.

    If you don’t love what you do you are in the wrong business.  This stuff is hard and it not getting any easier.

  147. XMVP says:

    I really can’t put up with this anymore.  I think I’ll just retire.  

  148. HAKAN says:

    My Name İs Hakan

  149. WHOCARES says:

    Why don’t Microsoft just invent, or re-invent and pretend they invented, another language that’s new to everyone and use that for their samples, then nobody (or everybody) can complain.

    On a serious note, why not just present samples that are not dependent on any particular language feature in a general pseudo code, understandable by everyone.

    I’m thinking mainly of the samples given for how to use the .NET framework and similar code.

  150. simco says:

    Why so many questions about the examples being in VB.NET

    Live with it 🙂 !!!

  151. andymc says:

    I’m sure Microsofts estimated proportion of VB to C# coders out there is grossly wrong. At least in the UK.

    www_jobserve_com – the UK’s largest source of IT vacancies.

    London – the UK’s largest city.

    Search "c# and london" 1212 vacancies

    Search "vb and london" 657 vacancies

    Exactly how does your bias towards VB examples help the majority of serious commercial coders?

  152. Gavin Lawrence says:

    Andy MC,

    You are talking about the number of ‘vacancies’ not coders.

    One could argue that your example proves the point that there are more coders in VB than C# and thus that the VB vacancies are filled already!

  153. Darren Mart says:


    I agree with much of your post except two points:

    "Who cares if developers write what appears to be "sloppy" code that you cannot easily understand!  If it works, it works!  And if development is done in a quicker and easier manner, with less learning effort and less debugging time, isn’t that a smarter way to develop?"

    If you’ve been programming for 23 years I can’t understand how you can ask that question. Have you never been asked to maintain (or build on top of) someone else’s code? The initial release of ANY code is not the end of the story as you well know — sloppy code, whether it initially works or not, will almost always result in more headaches, costs, and delays when more than one developer is asked to deal with it.

    The other statement was that Managed DirectX runs at 95-98% the speed of its unmanaged counterpart. I suppose for some apps that’s negligible, but for any serious gamer or game developer, it’s not an acceptable compromise. Not to mention the fact that even the smallest MDX apps have the added dependency of the .NET framework.



  154. tomarcherWhereDYouGo? says:

    I love this debate and the fact that it has been raging on with these comments shows I’m not the only one…

    I’m not here to take sides, though I have my own side, I’m here to ask where tomarcher went…  He bowed out rather ungracefully in my opinion back in November, namely the same day he posted the article.  

    If he ever chooses to comment on this matter again (because I know he’s still reading), I just have one question … does Microsoft have a plan to remedy this problem, or do they not even see it as a problem?

    tomarcher…. come back!

  155. Yogesh says:

    Interesting question !!. Microsoft is showing that not everything easy as we think. MS is just giving us an idea behind any system. We should uderstand it and keep using examples in VB.NET to develop C#.NET application

  156. Schatten says:

    Well I might be prejudiced but I have never ever consindered any code written in VB as anything worthwhile reading. So I simply skip anything in VB.

    I am mostly programming  in C++ and when some project really really needs it in Java or C#.  

    But knowing the true power C++ can give you, I find VB way too simplistic and insufficient.

  157. ANIL MAHADEV says:

    While readin through the entire section, I find no matter what language u use, as long as you are able to get the job done in the fastest time.

    In other words , VB.NET Rocks !!!

    And referring to the last comment, who says VB is insufficient, who gave the world GUI Programming, was it C,C++ or C#, it was VB first, dont forget the root, as to where MS is today , thanks to VB :).

    VB.NET , go get em :).!!!


  158. Gareth Hopkins says:

    Just use a VB.Net to C# Convertor…It’s simple.

    I program in VB.Net and if i find a code sample in C/C++ i convert it using on eof the many convertors that there are scattered around the internet.

  159. Biju Samuel says:

    I feel that even after Microsoft releasing the .NET platform, people think that VB.NET is not so powerful because of their understanding of VB 6 or below.

    As a result many non VB programmers ignorantly say that VB is not powerfull. It is my suggestion that they remove this mind set for Vb.NET because Vb.NET is now just as powerful and the number of developers are increasing for Vb.NET.

    I am very happy to see a lot more codes in VB.NET.  I can easily convert from VB.NET to C# if I need to.

  160. whogivesa says:

    Let’s just dump VB and be done with it. The quarter of the vb crowd that has more than one brain cell will be able to adapt to a real language and the rest can get a nice job at mac D

  161. Hey whogivesa, you need help but we understand.  

    By the way, who is "Lets". Are you running anything??? Get back to work before some offshore company takes your job.

    Isn’t it cool how the offshore crowd dispises vb as much as you do and write bad C code that local vb developers get to rewrite when employers learn what RAD really is????

    See you at MacD. Just don’t burn my burger like you do your bridges.

  162. PleaseHelp says:

    does anyone know how to do IsNumeric, IsDate, and use  a WITH statement in C#?

    i am trying to convert some IsNaN in javascript classic asp to c# and I think I need VB.

    if C# is not capable of this I will use VB.NET because I know that works.

    thanks in advance. I don’t care which language, I have lots of time I think C# because people say it is easy to learn. I am a javascript programmer

  163. anon says:

    C# does not have WITH, ISNUMERIC, or ISDATE.

    you can use any .Net language just set reference and using directive to point to Microsoft.VisualBasic.Information

    or your alternatives are regex, try-catch on int.parse(value), int.TryParse, or char loop to test each ascii in number range, etc

    hope that helps.

  164. CBWoodsr says:

    What makes this whole discussion a moot? point is the fact that VB has evolved from a VB (BASIC) development environment to one that allows one to use different language segments with in the overall code.

    ie (VB.Net; Java, J#,C#,VB,C++,inline code,etc…)

    Discussion as to which one is ‘best’ are just futile exercises as in which ‘religion’ is best.

    Each one has its good points and bad points. Just utilize the one you know best and ‘please’ try to use other examples (as in VBers trying C#) to enhance your ‘worth’ to employers. I have in my past as a VBer had to also write scripts for PROCOMM as that was what was needed at the time. Be versatile…




  165. john says:

    According to Bruce Lee:

    I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.

  166. ChasMan says:

    c# developers, let me guess, these are Java guys that have to code .net now because their boss had it with the Java cash drain and now they bring all that Java baggage like Struts and MVC’s… Then they belittle the VBers because the syntax actually reads left to right and doesn’t have semicolons? Gimmie a freaking break.

  167. Cor Ligthert says:

    Your article seems for me in the same category as where once in Calfornia was statical proven that kids come from cabbage.  (A large investigation on a minor school had proven that).

    I am active in C# and in VB.Net newsgroups. My expirience is that VB.Net developpers can more easy read C# samples than visa versa.

    Don’t forget that VB.Net is more extended than C# and can therefore be less easy to read for C# developpers. The same reason as that it is easier to convert C# to VB.Net than visa versa.

    What I hate are those direct from C# with a tool converted samples on MSDN showed as VBNet however wich miss all points of VB.Net. Because of what I wrote above you see those often. Converting real VB.Net to C# is much more work. Maybe is that the real reason.

  168. David says:

    You can’t call your self a programmer is you use Visual Basic.

    Any "language" that doesn’t have pointers isn’t a language.

    C++ is the most efficient and most powerful of the 3 languages discussed in this forum, so why not lean it. If you are not smart enough to learn C++, DONT PROGRAM COMPUTERS. Infact, you might need to get a breathing machine because you are so stupid and might forget to breath on your own.

  169. serpico says:

    sub {

    VB loves C#

    End Sub }

  170. TheMG says:


    How could someone get so stupid and misguided? 1 Pointers are not that useful (useful but only in certain situations). 2 VB has an alternative, Peek Poke Varptr Varseg etc.

    @the topic:

    I think this is good. I am a BASIC programmer at heart, recently began VBing and am very glad that examples will be in VB. VB code can be easily converted, whereas C/++ can often get very messy and tangled up. You should also give in Java as there are so many programmers of it.

  171. Derrick says:


    Please don’t try to be arrogant. I hate arrogant people.

  172. van says:

    thanks to providing free materials. but i couldn’t open that free materials.how can i that free materials? please send me these material site or url links

  173. van says:

    thanks to providing free materials. but i couldn’t open that free materials.how can i that free materials? please send me these material site or url links.

  174. van says:

    i wnat to access free materilas from this site. how can i do it ?

  175. jhouston says:


    You are a moron.  Bet you don’t even use a keyboard, probably just RS232 straight from your ego to IO console.

    And who needs monitors and a cpu, you probably do all of it in your head.

    Quick hide, I think I see an assembler programmer coming to do to you what you did to us…

    Do you really think you can keep up with a VB coder???

    I make more $$$ and work less ### than you do!!! So who needs the breathing machine???

    The examples are in VB, C#, C++ in that order!!!

    By the way, can you program MsAccess, MsExcel, MsPowerpoint, MsVisio, MsMapPoint, MsSharePoint, MsOutlook, Msetc…. THESE ARE ALL VBA. Not even the C# folks can beat the VbCoder.

  176. DD says:

    It’s about time!! Thanks for moving towards VB samples. Don’t just settle on the simple examples though – give us the good stuff, even if you have to P/Invoke. Same for Windows Mobile examples – if it weren’t for "native code", nobody would be able to write anything decent in WM. Give us the good stuff – how to vibrate a smartphone from VB. How to monitor for an incoming call in TAPI. That stuff. All in VB.

    What has taken you so long? That’s why there are still a lot of VB6 folks out there. Get this right and I’ll never complain again.

    @David: "Retarded" in Chinese is "Ruo Zhi Ren". "Bai Chi" is "Idiot". Go program that in C++.

  177. Asdrubal Chirinos says:

    Keep it simple, we just want to check the example out and see if it really works for us, please code examples in C#, we don’t have time to do a babies to adult progamming conversion (vb.net–>C#)

    and.. they can be more vb.net programmers, but 80% of then dont’ have a clue about what we are dealing with here, and the left 20% have already move to C#, so quit the vb.net coding…


  178. @David says:

    Asdrubal Chirinos nobody cares what you have time for. Your value to the programming community is nothing.

    if you want to continue calling vb coders baby and foolishly believe C# will dominate you are sadly mistaken.

    and your point about not supporting the 80% you think don’t have a clue is counter intuitive. I think what you meant to say is you are clueless and need the examples in C# because your too scared you will not be able to keep a job without the examples.

  179. Asdrubal Chirinos says:

    Yes I am sorry to have offended anyone.


  180. jhouston says:

    ASD and @David,

    You said baby and need simple examples in same post???

    when all around you is against you…maybe its you

    Vb coders are not lepers. They compliment the industry. Just because every vb programmer doesn’t try to reach for standards docs and design patterns before they write the first lines of code doesn’t make them inept.

    I actually prefer VB to C# for productivity. I am a single developer supporting 20 projects and its a piece of cake. All the apps use starter kits and patterns and practices blocks.

    Nothing is enterprise grade but they do handle 100,000 transactions a day.

    Do you all know REGEX and XML???

    Do you all know SQL and ORACLE???

    Do you all know sockets and the protocol stack???

    Can you all program to mobile devices???

    Can you program telephony???

    Show me why I should do these things in C#. Please I am begging to where the benefit is.

    By the way, I am not offended by your rhetoric. I know that C# will come to me before I have to go to it. It will be VB with semi-colons like Mr. Hollis said.

  181. scott says:

    As someone who was in on the original BASIC with John Kemeny and Tom Kurtz, a young boy doing punch cards for them while my father worked on the implementation of DTSS.  He was one of John’s  protege’s back then in 1964, and I, along with John, jr–my future classmate at Dartmouth, became examples of how easy it was to do BASIC programming.  Don’t forget why BASIC was developed.  Remember this is VB and though there isn’t a whole lot of the original left, it is still BASIC.   Made to be easy to understand and used.  Like with foreign languages, master one and the rest just get easier, as grammar patterns become easier to recognize, so to with computer languages.  Master VB and the rest begin sliding into place ever more easily.  Perhaps it’s just the years of experience, but I see the patterns, to other programming languages, from which ever base language I’m using.  I’ve learned to mentally chunk VB, which is not nearly as OO’ed as say C++ (since everyone is using it as th example) and rearrange it as it begin to rewrite my program in C++.  I can do it in reverse, although it takes longer.  I like to look at learning each language or operating system as a challenge, like dunking over the 7′ center in a full court game on the playground, feeling the adrenaline rush.  Staying up days at a time until I’ve mastered the object of my interest.  Programming is an artform.  Everyone has their own style.  Never let it not be fun and never fall into the snivel and whine when you encounter a challenge.  Attack!  Beat it into submission. Au revoir.

  182. tadanderson says:

    Just another thing for us to ignore from MS when trying to do what they do, and not what they say to do.

    This blog from Feb I wrote touches on the VB.NET & C# mess discussed here, plus some other things to ignore from MS.

    DNA, SOA, Software Architecture, VB.NET, CMMI, Agile Development – Doing what Microsoft does, not what they say to do…


    We will just need to keep turning to third party authors on how to use MS tools, like we always have.  

    The Marketing Machine Marches on:


  183. Paul says:

    C# is part of the new .Net environment. That’s all fine and dandy for those who want to go use a new language, but let’s remember that VB is the long-time anchor and therefore should be the focus of all examples. Whe we needed a new language is beyond me anyway, since .Net was originally VB7! VB should be the flagship language for examples due to the customer base.

    having said all that, there is one easy solution. Microsoft has a bzillion employees doing everything imaginable. Why on earth are they not providing BOTH versions of code examples in everything the put out? Seems like an easy solution.

  184. mark says:

    my take on it is that C# was a mistake to make to begin with. Microsofts approach should have not been to create yet another proprietary language just to win the hearts of the oo crowd (of which i am a proud member).

    as visual basic has been extended before and as it has been with the advent of .Net, i believe the best move would have been to truley overhaul the language and its syntax truley keeping it simple and make it more powerfull – end of story.

    either that or everyone say their farewells to vb, accept change, move to C# and MS include a syntax conversion tool in the IDE.

    i’ve been programming in c++ and vb for years, and i see distinct uses for each. c++ for hardcore apps that need better performance and vb for rapid application development (RAD). i’ve often used vb to facilitate my c++ projects for which it is indispensible, but the reverse is rarely true.

    i can also only imagine an unemployed vb programmers contempt for MS when realizing they are only ‘qualified’ for a percentage of the .Net jobs available. so many project managers out there who shield themselves from technology take a ‘magazine front cover’ approach to hiring. the latest buzz is their new development strategy even though they have no idea what it’s all about. what you have then are fully competent programmers who can’t work for a company because of their limited exposure to a particular language syntax.

    Interviewer: "Have you been programming in XX language for 4 years?"

    Interviewee: "Well, not really, I mostly…"

    Interviewer: "I’m sorry, but you’re just not qualified for this position. We need solid XX professionals to develop our web-based loan calculators."

    The interviewee could hold a degree in advanced mathematics, write particle effect algorithms in his sleep (oh and the loan calculators as well), but because of the segregated culture that has resulted due to the release of C#, he’ll have to hold out for an opening ‘better suited’ for him.

    In summary, neither VB.Net or C#.Net are bad, but they just weren’t meant to coexist.

  185. tzagotta says:

    Mark, you have missed the point of C#. C# gives you a good language syntax (best of C/C++/Java), good performance, and rapid development. It is the best of both worlds.

    VB and C# are not redundant. C# is necessary because many past C/C++/Java programmers will NOT use VB. But we still want the benefits of VB.

    Since switching from C++ to C# (we were VERY hard-core C++ users), we’ve seen productivity improvements and also small application performance improvements relative to C++. So we’re happy with it.

  186. mark says:

    hi tzagotta,

    perhaps i have missed the point.

    you said C# gives developers good performance and rapid development, and it’s the best of both worlds. you make a strong argument for using C#, but since vb’s main goal is RAD, and now you have C# which provides that and offers better performance, to me that says vb, was in fact, made redundant.

  187. tzagotta says:

    Mark, VB is valuable to developers already proficient in VB.

    To summarize, C# was developed to attract C/C++/Java programmers to .NET, and VB is carried forward for the millions of active VB programmers.

  188. Christian says:

    So funny…

    We are in 2006 and we are still fighting between C#@!++ and VB.

    People who code C# want to code C# because it sound cool more than anything else.  As they said, there’s more VB.NET programmers, so people like to claim that they are different, that they are "Hard core" programmers because they program in C#.

    The same thing about the OS…  people want to put "Unix" and "Linux" in their resume because they want to look cool.

    Just be yourself, program in the language that you prefer, choose the OS that you prefer, and if you want to be the minority in the statistics, THEN BE IT!  Assume your choice and stop bothering people!

    What microsoft said is that there’s more VB.NET programmers than C#… so it’s normal that samples founds are mostly in VB.  And i would not like to have a "babelfish like" translation from a programming language to another one… i used babelfish a lot, but i know very much that the result is too messy.

    And please, DAVID:  GROW UP!

    If you were half as good as you claim to be, you would produce code as much efficient in VB.NET than in C#.  You are just not experienced at all in VB.NET… face it!

    If you like getting this kind of messages, then keep posting this way…  you are not better than anyone, and people doesn’t have to stand at your feet.  Treat them as shit, and they will treat you the same way.

  189. bond says:

    The only reason why VB.NET will never be publicly recognized as the best programming language in the world is that it is an easy language to follow. Once something is as clearly easy to learn as VB.NET, people generally snub it. Coupled with the fact that VB has a non-OOP background, it isn´t surprising that it has become the most bullshitted language in the programming world. People who can´t do "Hallo World" in C++ or C# will nevertheless claim to be better than VB programmers, merely because they associate themselves with C++ or Java etc. Even the name BASIC plays against the language VB.NET, suggesting that it is some toyish thing not worth a fart. Even if VB.NET were further developed into the most rock-solid development system in the world, it would take a very very long time before most of the arrogantly bloated "hardcore" C/Java/#  programmers come to terms with the fact. They think that the notorious ordeal of going through a hurricane of braces ({}) and semicolons makes them "cooler" than everyone else.

  190. Nigel says:

    Wow, a lot of passionate people about sample code!  I don’t think it is worth getting abusive over.  Relax, this is about sample code…….

    I code in both but prefer C# for a couple of reasons.

    Firstly I find the code a lot easier to read/write because it is no where near as verbose as VB.  

    Secondly there are more job opportunites.  I am surprised by Tom’s statement about VB being used by the majority of programmers.   I would have thought the job opportunites would have been a good indicator of the industry preference.  Obviously not.

    Personally I would prefer to see the C# examples because it does save time in re-writes.  However, so long as there are examples I don’t really care what language they’re written in.

  191. James McManus says:

    I haven’t read every comment yet, so I hope this hasn’t been mentioned already.  I would prefer all samples written in VB and here’s why:

    Far more people use VB than C#, but apparently more employers are looking for C# developers than for VB.  Supply and demand!  Keeping C# developers in short supply means they can command better salaries than otherwise.  I am learning C# with the hope of eventually doing it professionally, and I know when to count my blessings.  Please, keep the samples coming in VB.

  192. Heidari says:

    What language is the best of other languages on the visual studio.net 2005

    C#.net or VB.Net ?

  193. David George says:

    Why use C++, C#, or VB?  Write the examples in assembly or machine language.  I would like to see an assembly.NET.

  194. tadanderson says:

    It would appear from this thread none of the C# developers care, they are to proud to admit they care, or are to slow to realize the impact.

    After 2 pages of crap for feedback, I’d say MS has it right.  If the VB guys are smart enough ask for MS releases of tools in VB first, then they deserve to have them.


  195. Coatl says:

    Yeez. I think this whole discussion is a moot. Yes, there are people who prefer VB Samples, there are people who prefer C# Samples. People who think VB.NET rocks and people who think the De Facto standard for .NET is C#.

    So what? This it’s called DIVERSITY.

    Microsoft, if this what you tried to prove, your point has been made.

    However, back to the original source of the problem:

    "basic business sense would indicate that – since it’s not economically efficient to produce examples in all languages"

    Wow!, back to the drawing board: Basic business sense for me is to support all your customers. Period.

    You want to be "economically efficient"? Then you must think twice before creating new languages. Remember when your spech was (I suppose this still remains):

    "You can use any language you like: C#, VB.NET, C++. We don’t force you to use only one supported language (Java). So we are not like SUN, we are different."

    Ok, so be different and invest some of the Zillion Dollars you have in the bank to create samples for all the technologies you are trying we developers adopt (Vista, WWF, WCF, WPF, Office 12, CAB, GAT, etc …) We currently have enough problems  trying to find the time to learn all this new technologies and create applications that deliver business value to our customers.

    Thank you.

  196. Derek Hanson says:

    I very excited to see main examples in VB.Net. My company and our vendors all code in VB.Net. When I am looking for a solution, I won’t even stop and look if it is in anything but VB. I admire those that write in C# and C++, however coding is like electricity, corporations need to follow the path of least resistence. In this case being VB.Net.

  197. сергей says:

    хер вам всем в жопу сраные америкосы

  198. секс says:

    нигеры сраные в жопу вас ебать надо

  199. Iani says:

    seems that the 3:1 ratio of vb programmers to c# is nonsense as the majority of responders to your article above come from a c# background.

    Check the stats above for yourself, you may want to reconsider your data sources.

    Sort your crap out and support c# as a standard instead of muddying the waters with all these other languages.

    examples in vb?…isn’t that going against your whole c# ethics in the first place??…as you bragged about MS office being wholey written in c#…was that all marketing hype bull?

    This isn’t good news to anyone new to programming lookinf for a language to learn!

  200. tadanderson says:

    It should be interesting to see what Tom’s response to this is


    as the letter from the forum monitor says he is going to.

  201. tadanderson says:

    Microsoft decided to not explain what happened to the team that so far has done a great job supplying samples and toolkits, or what will happen to them if Tom Archer’s blog is fact.

    They just asked us to stop discussing it.

    I am starting to think Tom’s blog was fiction to please the masses. I have not seen any lack of C# examples or toolkits.

    So for now I guess there is no real answer as to what the effect Tom’s Blog describes will be, or even if it was anything more than a message to please the masses.

  202. ASM/C++/.NET developer says:

    what it all boils down to is that VB developers are lame (real life experience simply proves the statement), while C++/C# developers can at least find their way around.

    As for anyone out there who states you can do something in a language and cannot do it in another – you will automatically be assigned to the VB developers’ category (read the above paragraph).


  203. jude says:

    Why do some C# people think they’re so good when they can’t translate to simple VB.NET?

    Some people can translate between about 15-20 programming and non-programming languages and they’re not as arrogant as these C# wannabes.

  204. Peter says:

    I object to the notion that all VB developers are challenged as it relates to object orientation. VB 6 had classes albiet COM classes and it supported interface inheritance so any VB developer that was able to master these concepts probably had no problem with the transition to VB.NET.

    I would point out that most of the C# developers came from a C++ background and swithched to C# because it offered the productivity of VB with a syntax that they are familiar with.

    I can read and write C# as well as VB but like any language switch you need to retrain your brain to think in a different way.

    The bottom line is that it about the technology. The sample should illustrate how to implement a technology and the language should be irrelevant.

  205. tadanderson says:

    Not ALL VB.NET programmers are challenged as it relates to object orientation.  But it is the VB 6 developers that moved into VB.NET that are the dangerous ones.  Many continue to program VB 6 using VB.NET, which makes for a horrible mess.

    It is not their fault.  MS is to blame for not properly explaining that NO VB 6 skills translate over to VB.NET.  By adding ways for the VB 6 developer to continue to develop like they were still using VB 6 was a horrible mistake on Microsoft’s part.  Not marketing wise, that is why they did it.  But it was a mistake because it gave the VB 6 developer a false sense of security.

    I find coding in VB.NET twice as hard, because I always need to double check that I am not using one of the VB 6 syntaxes supplied to make life easy for the VB 6/Now VB.NET coder.    It’s harder to write good code because you have to figure out what parts of the library is good to use, and which part of it has been put in place to make life easier for the VB 6 guy going to .NET.

    I think all VB 6 programmers should spend a minimum of one year using only C# before going to VB.NET.  They have as much to unlearn, as they need to learn.  By eliminating all the junk MS put in VB.NET to make life easier by using C#, you would get to writing quality code much faster.



  206. tadanderson says:

    Thanks Tom, for responding to this thread…


  207. iehjsucker says:

    as for me, VB would apeal to most of the people. reasons may include, a lot of newbie’s would preffer vb as their stepping stone because it is BASIC and it is easy to understand and to related with.

    The fact that more C++ apps are released rather than vb, in bigger markets. but how about to small players? Remember that VB is a RAD. And I think lot of programmers out there making their things to their clients would like to do jobs faster, and consider vb is somewhat, for me, is the most compatible language for Windows, especially when working with their office. VB is very popular since most programs being developed out there are not for really big releases, but for small and medium scale business.

  208. ASM/C++/.NET developer says:

    My name is ASM and I am C++ maggot

    Read my post above to my exude

  209. Iani says:

    My name is Iani and I believe the entire excel calculation engine was rewritten in C# b/c slower managed code is better than C++. Who cares whats practical, I need to be trendy here.

    Where is my MsAccess.Net??? You said it would be here!!! I am waiting…

  210. GoodLookingGeeK says:

    I just lost my samples, girlfriend, job, and self-respect to a C# programmer.

    I am going to write a country music song.

    They tell me I have two versions to live, I will need a transfusion.  MY choices are hard as hell, and aint worth the trouble.  Too bad C# doesnt have MY guess I will have to learn perl

  211. iehjsucker says:

    much much karma here guys….

    gone thru many vb apps before, continued to .Net and landed into a weird language, in which I didn’t expect and am not feeling right and suited, COBOL. This makes me sick a lot, considering that I can not practice real programming.

  212. jsmith says:

    you should provide samples in vb, c#, and c++

    no excuses.

    particularly c++ where there are subtle syntax issues

    and where is the c++ .net documentation??

    Do you want people to use managed c++ or not??

    why build a product/library if you won’t document it

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  214. jrogers says:

    You know what? How about thanking the developers who wrote all of these samples in the first place? Regardless of which language it was written in. MS could’ve easly said, ok guys, here’s the APIs and the explanation, now have a nice day. The explanation of why VB over C# is valid. Though I would like more samples in C#, I’d rather have some of something rather than all of nothing.

  215. TatMing says:

    I come from Asia, First i think that that is a interest topic, but after Read to the End , the discussion is change to ( C# vs VB.NET ) more then (Why so many examples in Visual Basic)….well, on my opinion, Different of C# & VB.NET, just syntax .

    I have a VB6 Background and now is VB.NET , i always go PScode, Sourceforge , Code-project Site etc.. i don’t think VB.NET sample is more then C#, maybe inside microsoft.com only, with the partner site, ww.asp.net , gotdotnet.com, it still have vb.net or C# sample for selection.

  216. Adler F says:

    The greatest language is norwegian. That settles it.

  217. Jerry G says:

    Samples – all supported languages required.

    C++ vs C# vs VB.Net

    I have to do this! Depends on what you want to do.


    + Speed

    + Smaller memory footprint

    + Concise code

    + Compatable/supported with kernel (drivers, system DLLs)

    + Direct hardware level access

    + History – proven professional expertise and prestige

    + Fewer runtime dependencies

    + Platform source code portability (incl. backward compat)

    + Difficult to learn (barrier to non pros)

    – Difficult to master

    – Difficult to understand (figure out what someone did)


    + Similar to C,C++ and Java in syntax

    + More object oriented than C++ or VB (purer)

    + Concise code

    + History – inherits from C/C++ – prestige

    + Managed code

    + Difficult to learn (barrier to non pros)

    – Difficult to master

    – Difficult to understand (figure out what someone did)

    – Not compatable/supported with kernel (drivers, system DLLs)


    + Managed code

    + Easier to master

    + Faster development cycles

    + Similar to VB in syntax

    – Easy to learn – allows non pros to dev code

    – History – inherits from VB – negative

    – Not compatable/supported with kernel (drivers, system DLLs)

    – Allows certain poor programming practices

  218. Horst Klein says:

    As a VB.net "User" i prefer the VB Samples!

    I can’t understand the "C#"- and "VB"-Code "war" I always thinking .net is .net.

    And as a vb.Net Developer I also take a look into C# samples to solve my problems 😉

  219. Curt says:

    As a VB6 programmer, I understand why so many examples. They have bastardized VB so bad, it does not even resemble basic anymore. It looks like that ©rap. They are trying to get us poor VB programmers to see how to do stuff that we use to do in 1 line of code and now it takes 45 lines of BS

  220. Dan says:

    VB? C#?  What about VFP?

    I’d settle for more contextual help files.

  221. wouldjacouldja says:

    I would like as many languages as the author of the article proficiently knows.  I would like to have the examples, many as can be done, at the end of the article and/or someway to "transform" the exmaples in the page between the languages I want.  When the article content allows.  I understand some code snippets in the article explanations would be specific and hard to dymanically switch, but hey YOU ARE Microsoft.  You can do anything.  My choice is more C#, if it matters, and (Iron) Python.

  222. Chingo Bling says:

    Settle down and get back to work!

  223. Bob SPencer says:

    I am really pleased to see more examples in VB.NET.  I am allergic to brackets and semi colons.  As soon as I see them my mind starts to drift.  Give me those friendly, happy VB codes thank you Microsoft!

  224. notebook says:

    I think VB is easy than other ones.

    It doesn’t like C or C++.

  225. notebook says:

    I come back..

    Vb use iron

    so more and more people study  VB and not need message like C.

  226. notebook says:

    VB use iron so more and more people study it more easy and more people use Vb to fishion they work.

  227. Do not forget about VBA developers.  VBA Developers will understand VB NET .

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  233. umair says:

    vb examples are good for me

  234. Ian Hughes says:

    I came from heavy VBA development as an analyst to VB5 as an early developer. Then 6, then .NET, and finally for over a year now C#. Why the jump across?

    Well, primarily because C# developers flat out get paid more in general (might be because there are less of them, I dunno). Yet, once you get beyond that, I think its important to look past the fact that they compile into the same CLR, but how you get to that point.

    While, yes, it is still a preference debate, I think the C# development environment in VS lends itself to better to programming cleaner applications than VB.NET. VB is a very verbose language in some ways and in the VS environment has worse commenting capabilities over its C# counter part. And face it, all joking aside, if youre working with anyone but yourself (and even then) commenting is HUGE in an application’s lifecylce.

    I also found, the greater my understand of OOP was, the less inclined I was to using VB.NET because it actually seemed more difficult to get done what I wanted to accomplish.

  235. ... says:

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  236. ... says:

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  239. C# lover says:

    C# and VB.net examples are both listed in http://www.java2s.com