Icons: It’s still orange


My last post shared some of our conceptual designs of the feed icon and expressed some of the criteria that we are using to select the right icon.  Several of the comments liked icon #4 simply because it looked liked the Firefox icon, and many (like this one) suggested that we work with the Firefox team to standardize on an icon.


This seemed like a very good idea, so in November, Amar and I took a visit down to Silicon Valley to meet with John Lilly and Chris Beard from Mozilla to get their thoughts on it.  We all agreed that it’s in the user’s best interest to have one common icon to represent RSS and RSS-related features in a browser.  And the winner is…


  


I’m excited to announce that we’re adopting the icon used in Firefox. John and Chris were very enthusiastic about allowing us (and anyone in the community) to use their icon. This isn’t the first time that we’ve worked with the Mozilla team to exchange ideas and encourage consistency between browsers, and we’re sure it won’t be the last.


We’ll be using the icon in the IE7 command bar whenever a page has a feed associated with it, and we’ll also use it in other places in the browser whenever we need a visual to represent RSS and feeds. Look for more details on the look and feel of IE7 when we post the public pre-release build next year.


Thanks again to the Mozilla team for making the icon available and helping us do the right thing for all browser users.   Many thanks to everyone who gave feedback on our earlier post; your comments and thoughts were very valuable!


– Jane


Update 12/15: The Outlook 12 team has announced they’ll be using the same icon. Great news!


Comments (206)

  1. Super Techie says:

    I think this is very exciting to see collaboration between IE and Mozilla. Hopefully with this consistent approach, RSS will become an everyday technology just like email has become. Keep up the good work, I look forward to IE7.

  2. That’s very cool, anything that can be done to make the UI and contextual pieces of RSS easier for everyone to understand is a great thing.

  3. Funbug says:

    Very nice. Work together more often!

  4. SchizoDuckie says:

    Very good to see!

    Another question, one i haven’t seen posted anywhere.

    Will you be supporting different versions of javascript (1.2+ – 1.5) in IE 7? Or even bring support for these languages to IE5.5+?

    Now that AJAX applications are becoming more and more important it forces us programmers to use ugly solutions for problems ( http://www.contentwithstyle.co.uk/Articles/38/fixing-the-back-button-and-enabling-bookmarking-for-ajax-apps/ )that wouldn’t be there if there were support for things like .watch(), .unwatch(), getters and setters, etc.

    For example: It’s quite simple to hook .watch to document.location.href, and monitor if a new anchor is being called.

    For IE, there is no support to track different propertychanges, and we need to create ugly iframe-based solutions to get pages in the history.

    For as far as i’ve seen, it’s not even possible to fix this using .htc files, so this is like IE4/NS4 all over again.

    As MicroSoft has been developing AJAX based applications too, you guys must have had to work around this too.

    It’d be nice to see MicroSoft’s opinion on the whole AJAX and usabily issues, and other untouched but really important things for the web 2.0 (or even 3.0) like the Canvas element (currently supported by Firefox, and the guys at Opera are working on it too)

    In the end, you could say that MicroSoft, as the largest player in the market could make or break these standards, so please give us webdevelopers some clarification on that 🙂

  5. Josef Dunne says:

    Nice, i have liked the increasing collaborative efforts between the browser vendors in the last few weeks, with the security colour coding. And now this. Im respecting IE more and more everyday……if you keep it up you may well take back some of that market firefox has munched at.

    Good work.

  6. Patrik says:

    I think that this kind of collaboration is what RSS need to get more "mainstream". Hopefully with IE7, people will start to understand what RSS is all about.

  7. That’s great to see and beneficial for everyone in the long term. That will almost set in stone the icon that represents RSS to the masses.

    Well done.

  8. David Naylor says:

    Respect! (To Mozilla, for leading the way, and to IE/RSS team for doing the good thing.)

    Who would have thought we would see the day?

  9. Adam Plocher says:

    Great news. Keep up the great work. Although I’m an avid Firefox user, I am excited to see how IE7 turns out.

  10. Mike says:

    Oh my god, Microsoft you copying a-holes. You guys can’t make ANYTHING for yourselves! When you do, you take for freaking ever–Take that new UI font for Vista. IT TOOK THREE FRICKIN’ YEARS!

    GO LINUX!

  11. Masked and Anonymous says:

    Normally I would criticize anything good Microsoft does as an underhanded, backstabbing PR move, but even I can tell this is an honest attempt to create a standard Web interface for everyone, no matter what browser they want to use. Good work!

  12. Jeff says:

    Kudos 🙂 the sooner IE users get IE7 the better!

    And to Mike, grow up. I am also a Linux (and Mac! and Windows!) fan, but that is just unnecessary.

  13. urban says:

    That’s great! But how are you going to fit in the windows logo? 😉

  14. Maurits says:

    The icon is nice, but why the focus on RSS? Are you going to support ATOM feeds too?

  15. rss says:

    Yup. We support all feed formats: Atom, RSS (2.0, 1.0 and the 0.9x formats). In most cases, when we use "RSS" in this general way, we’re talking about syndication technologies in general.

  16. trex says:

    Seeing this brought a smile to my face.

    For so long I’ve stayed away from web development due to browser inconsitencies. Maybe this is a sign of better things to come in the world of web development?

  17. John Chang says:

    I’m glad you guys are cooperating with Mozilla, Opera, etc on certain issues like this and security.

    This icon, though – I never liked it in Mozilla. Every time I see it, I think "wireless". I _know_ what it’s supposed to mean, but by now it’s practically ingrained in my head that little waves means "wireless."

    Plus, feeds aren’t "broadcasted" anyway; as you know, they’re client-pull.

    Pretty please reconsider this decision…

  18. Bryan Ford says:

    This is great news! I think this will improve RSS adoption. I hope Microsoft and Mozilla will cooperate more in the future.

  19. wpSlider says:

    Hang on!

    "Amar and I took a visit down to Silicon Valley to meet with John Lilly and Chris Beard from Mozilla to get their thoughts on it."

    Wasn’t this how the Apple Mac GUI interface got ripped off? I hope the Mozilla guys kept a good eye on you!

    It’s funny how IE development slowed to a grinding halt once the competitor became irrelevant. I suppose there was no need to "innovate" anymore. Now that FireFox makes even a slight threat of becoming popular off you go again. I love MS stuff, I use Windows everyday and I couldn’t ever use Linux or the Mac cause the apps I use – and live-by everyday – just aren’t there but for the sake of innovation I hope you guys fail to crush the competition this time.

    This time though, the whole MS backwards compatability mentality that used to exist up to a few years ago is now out the window and I hope this only comes back to bite you in the bum!

  20. P.J. Onori says:

    Awesome decision. Seriously, in terms of principle, this is huge. Good for you guys. 🙂

  21. I’m extremely impressed by this. Interoperability of this level (i.e. petty enough that cooperation could easily be sidestepped were that desired) is very much appreciated by all camps. Cheers guys.

    – Chris

  22. This is great to hear, but I’m not that enthusiastic about the cross compatibility between icons. Will there be the same compatibility with standards support then?

    How much time, as a business decision, did it take for this to clear through; when that time could’ve best been spent to fix the CSS issues we know will still be outstanding come IE 7 launch, or so you noted?

    A blog post about icon compatibility, while nice, seems to shed light on your priorities. If it takes this long to clear out a more basic decision, I can see why delivery of your updated browser takes 5+ years.

    Not meant to be a stab, but you guys left yourself open for this. You’ll have to do better than posting up notes like above.

  23. Great move, and a welcome change of pace from the browser wars. Of course, I have to ask: are aggregator developers free to use this same icon in their products?

  24. AC says:

    Good choice! Nice to see you guys work together with the Mozilla folks to bring some cohesiveness to browsing.

  25. Jasp says:

    Good to see, although it shouldn’t have to take something as big as Firefox’s popularity to impliment RSS support in IE.

    I personally like your RSS icon better than the one in Firefox’s default theme. Is the icon you have in this post free for anyone to use, or owned by MS and licensed under the EULA?

  26. Andy says:

    Good news, maybe it will actually get Joe Average User interested in using feeds.

  27. Edge says:

    "I personally like your RSS icon better than the one in Firefox’s default theme."

    Er, it is the same icon used in Firefox 1.5 (go to a page with an RSS feed and you should see the icon appear in the address bar as the button to create a "Live Bookmark"). The one above is a higher resolution though.

    In any event, definitely glad Microsoft is going for consistancy between browsers! =)

  28. Diego Barros says:

    This is excellent to see! Not only the collaboration but the fact that RSS and XML orange icons aren’t used is also a plus.

    The orange XML icon was especially inappropriate. To me, it had no connection with RSS, other than it was something that Dave Winer invented. The chosen icon is more generic, does not mention RSS or XML, and just represents feeds, whether they be RSS, Atom or whatever.

  29. Tom says:

    It was the right thing to do, Well done!

  30. nbx909 says:

    adopt== steal

    you are horrible

    you know just screw ie and go with firefox! dump ie all together allow an open source app in windows!!! you could make a skin for windows for it to ship with or something, but then again if it’s adopted by ms it will cause firefox to become a noobs browser.

  31. Court Kizer says:

    It’s too bad that from a User’s point of view the icon is devoid of meaning. I’m glad that MS decided to work with Mozilla on this one, however the icon is absolutely meanless.

    It’s another hieroglyphic for the user to decode. Shame on both camps for employing terrible user interface designers.

    The only icon that has it right is safari’s its’ a beautiful tiny button (nearly the same size as that one) but says "RSS" and is easily understandable by everyone.

  32. Rob says:

    If you guys are so excited about an orange logo then I’m sure you’ll be excited if IE ever gets HTML/CSS correct which they haven’t since 1998!

  33. Ben says:

    I’m so glad to see that Microsoft is finally getting smarter. See, all you have to do now is copy the rest of Firefox.

    Geez, can’t come up with anything yourselves anymore, can you? Apparently, MS hasn’t got the memo that Google + Firefox is the way of the future.

  34. Adam A Flynn says:

    While I understand the position of those people who are bashing the waste of time for dealing with an icon, I think it’s a step forward.

    I’ll admit I’m a Linux user myself and am a supporter of FireFox, but the fact that Microsoft is cooperating with Mozilla is a good thing. I’m a web developer and nothing irritates me more than JavaScript and working with IE/FF differences. I’m happy to see that the key browser builders are working together to make things more consistent throughout all of the browsers.

    Nicely done guys, you’re up a few points in my books.

  35. Bryan Peters says:

    Is command bar another name for address bar?

  36. Jay says:

    This is all fine and good…. but will IE7 Support PNG’s properly? Will it render CSS better?

    That is what is important for semless browsing experience…. not some silly rss buttion.

  37. Jacob says:

    Hey, while you’re at it, why don’t you adobt Mozilla’s rendering engine, too — that’ll really be "in the user’s best interest," and "encourage consistency between browsers!"

    Just trying to help you "do the right thing for all browser users."

  38. Fran McKeagney says:

    That is great! Nice one.

  39. Hmm, cool.

    Why don’t you adopt Firefox mode of using about:config for some advanced configurations?

    I won’t mind that please..

  40. Xepol says:

    Works for me. Does this mean yer also gonna drop the ill advised idea of trying to create a new name too?

    The suggestion for about:config… Its an interesting idea, and certainly easier than hacking the registry… If they don’t write it, anyone else who wanted to create their own custom protocol handler could.

  41. TBO says:

    >The only icon that has it right is safari’s its’ a

    >beautiful tiny button (nearly the same size as that

    >one) but says "RSS" and is easily understandable by

    >everyone.

    You don’t suppose that your average user knows or cares about what "RSS" means? And what about Atom? Acronyms suck. A good symbol (one can argue if the current icon is a good one though) is better than any acronym. Considering that there are windows users in other countries who are not that familiar with latin characters abbreviating english-named formats. Additionally, nobody really knows what RSS means. (rich site summary? really simple syndication? …)

    If you want to educate the non-geeks about RSS, you need more understandable symbols and metaphors.

  42. CLG says:

    > when we use "RSS" in this general way, we’re

    > talking about syndication technologies in

    > general.

    Sorry, but RSS is a file format. Using your reasoning you should call IE an "HTML browser" and say "when we use ‘HTML’ in this general way, we’re talking about web technologies in general." No wonder normal users are confused.

    The general term for "syndication technologies" is "feeds". There are RSS feeds and Atom feeds. You can’t use "RSS" to mean all kinds of feed any more than you can use "tuba" to mean all kinds of musical instrument.

    This whole "let’s pretend all feeds are RSS" nonsense sounds suspiciously like kowtowing to <a href="http://www.scripting.com/2005/12/09.html#googleSucksThereISaidIt">a particular crackpot’s ramblings</a>. If you’re going to do that you might as well follow <a href="http://www.scripting.com/2005/10/08.html#When:4:23:06PM">his suggestion to standardize on a button that says "XML"</a>. I’m sure everyone’s grandmother will be able to figure that one out.

  43. klevo says:

    Congratulations!

    That`s the way to go. Looking forward to IE7.

  44. RichB says:

    I hope you allow Mozilla to use your icons and other resources if they so wish in the future.

  45. egon says:

    one step forward. but what about ‘new’ web standards. e.g. what about standard svg support?

  46. Nicole Simon says:

    I think it is a great idea to have this shared recognizable icon.

    And to be honest: Who really cares what format it is as long as it is readable by my reader and does the things I want?

    Maybe some geeks, but to every one else this is just "little orange thing = feed for me".

  47. Darkelve says:

    Wow… sorry for being so blunt, but you guys are actually doing something useful now, instead of the tricks learned in the Netscape vs. IE time and the following Browser Cold War.

    It’s really nice not having to guess which icon will be CSS. I don’t care if it’s the Firefox icon or not, although this *is* a very nice icon.

    Important thing is that both browser developers are actually working together for the good of the user now.

    My hat is off to you this time.

    Darkelve

  48. Sorcerer says:

    OMG! Microsoft is stealing the ideas of the open source company. And I swear you that they will give Mozilla an a**-kick after they stole the idea. SHAME ON YOU M$! Create you own ideas.

  49. Name: required says:

    seineew era sremmarggorp tfosorciM

  50. d4ft says:

    good to see microsoft brings a BIT of redemption. but i’ll stick with my kubuntu (kubuntu.org)

  51. as says:

    Respect!

    (for the cooperation with the mozilla group)

  52. quack says:

    This is very good news. It’s nice to see that competitors _can_ work together for the common good.

  53. Javock says:

    Embrace and extend anyone?

  54. andreas says:

    let this be one of the steps to create a standardisation of the web browsing experience. My proposal for the next step: SVG (with all the experience of the SVGextension XAML – I know it’s a bit more than SVG – this one should be easy for you guys 😉 ). Ups, i started dreaming… guess eaven the "new MS" would not go that far … or..?!?

  55. Max says:

    cool – please consider to work together more often especially in handling css

  56. Heiko says:

    Hi people of Microsoft!

    I am glad to read that you at microsoft change your minds a little bit in that direction to work together with people from the OSS department.

    🙂

    My name is Heiko and i am a Linux user.I think it is time to stop the "war" between Microsoft and Linux.

    Microsoft should accept that Linux is there and won’t disappear anymore.There could be some peaceful teamwork in the interest of users from both sides …

    Life got harder for Microsoft (since Linux came up), but I think Microsoft won’t ever loose it’s domination

    in most IT business fields.For most people Windows will be a good choice as an easy to use operating system.

    The competition between Linux and Windows was a benefit for both OS:

    If the Desktop of Windows wouldn’t be the standard to measure with, then Linux or other OSS OS would still have it’s inconsistent icons, Windowmanagers and so on.

    Windows improved a lot in terms of stability and shows

    that there is a rethinking that being secure is more import as being comfortable …

    To Bill Gates, Steve Ballmer and the leaders of MS:

    We (Linux, *BSD, Unix people) don’t wan’t world domination or the fall of MS !

    We want fair standards for interoperable documents or protocols, because we (Linux etc. people) want to share documents, with our friends, co-workers that use

    MS Windows 🙂

    If people at MS open their minds and show that MS can be fair, stand other OS beside Windows and care about their customers wishes and problems, MS customers won’t run over to Linux – believe it !

    In using that icon of firefox for your browser you gave a sign that there can be hope.

    Hope that MS and OSS can live happily together in peace.

    Best regards,

    Heiko

  57. John says:

    <rant>That’s nice. Go IE? Lol, sort out your CSS support before choosing an icon. Please please please please. As someone who does web programming IE really needs the CSS support, not the RSS icon. The good kind of non-buggy css support. Otherwise remove IE from windows and do us all a favour eh? </rant>

  58. Ben says:

    Hi Jane,

    Is this icon available for others to use? Are there licensing terms that go along with it? It would be great to see everyone allowed to standardize on this icon.

    Thanks!

  59. Swiss Guy says:

    Microsoft did a nice move towards the firefox community but unfortunately this icon is horrible. A RSS icon would have been much better for everybody!!

  60. ryan says:

    Good first step, Now, go integrate Gecko as your layout engine, and my life will be much easier!

  61. Jeff Wilkinson says:

    I’m glad you and the mozilla team are aiming for a common icon for this, though I’m not convinced this one makes the most sense.

    What symbolism is it reaching to convey?

    To me it’s far too much like the ones typically used for sound or volume. Why won’t people assume it means that’s a link to a sound file of some sort?

  62. XPSP3_Zelot says:

    If microsoft would have made IE7 years ago, with the features people NEEDED, Firefox wouldnt have been that successful now.

    Instead, we have a bunch of fanboys running around yelling Firefox RULEZ. Firefox isnt all that great of a browser. Its not a fast as people proclaim it to be. Ive been running IE7 b1 forever and its a great thing. I cant wait for the new build. IE7 is good stuff. Deploying right away on my network when the final is released.

  63. Thomas de Hoog says:

    Why doesnt Microsoft entirely adopt mozilla? Firefox is still waaaay better then IE. So is Thunderbird compared with Outlook express.

    I think it wouldnt be a bad bargain for MS.

  64. Sven says:

    Good work. Do not care about politics. Just find the best solution for the users.

  65. Brady Joslin says:

    Great choice!

    Web site owners would be wise to exclusively use this button to represent web feeds and immediately cease the use of XML, RSS, and other similar approaches. This will greatly improve the awareness and understanding of subscription based services via web feeds for the masses.

  66. Jose Daniel says:

    Excellent! great choice, and it’s good to see some collaboration here 😉

  67. Vipul says:

    Why do we need IE7 anyway? Unless, you make it open source, uninstallable and bug-free, I don’t see a need for this browser.

  68. Vipul says:

    Why do we need IE7 anyway? Unless, you make it open source, uninstallable and bug-free, I don’t see a need for this browser.

  69. Mike says:

    Collaboration is great, but the most amazing thing about this whole letter is that they took a trip to Silicon Valley just to decide on one icon. I’m not sure how far away she was, but I can only imagine how much they spent just to decide on one icon. Unreal!!!

  70. nathan says:

    As much as I like the icon, I’m more impressed with the colaboration. I’d written MS off a while ago and have switched to mostly non-MS products. I can’t believe it, but I’m actually going to check out IE 7 and maybe hold off on my desktop OS switch.

    Kudos to the MS and Mozilla teams for collaborating on this.

  71. rss says:

    First, thanks for the positive comments.

    Second, we know as well as you do that this is a very small part of the overall product. Believe me, we haven’t been sitting around just doing icons for the past few months. 🙂 We’ve also been working hard on improving the product in many of the ways that people have asked for.

    That said, the icon decision was one that we felt might be useful to get feedback on from the community on, and one that people might find interesting, which is why we posted about in the first place.

    We also felt very strongly that consistency was important, particularly for a technology that will be new to a lot of users.

    One final point: Jane and Amar were already in the valley for other reasons, so a visit to Mozilla was a easy trip. 🙂

  72. ryan says:

    Is this icon free for anyone to use?

  73. VeryNice says:

    An orange RSS icon not going to redeem IE just yet.

  74. Lawrence Tureaud says:

    That’s great… I’m still not using IE though…

  75. Micky Mouse says:

    Nar nar nar… firefox teach you lesson!

  76. vivek says:

    Very nice! I’m glade to see this kind of collaboration, at the end of day it will be win-win situation for both vendor and end users!

  77. wmd says:

    The icon says "sound" to me at first glance – I’ve never seen it before this minute.

  78. olePigeon says:

    Awesome! Now all we have to do is agree to NOT use ActiveX to keep our webpages crossbrowser and crossplatform compatible.

  79. Roger says:

    Excellent! Keep on working for consistency.

  80. smith288 says:

    No comment about the rss icon…just the lame nerds who think posting "FF RuLeZ!" and other retarded jargon are really sorta pathetic and certainly not going to positively urge anyone at MS to move toward your frame of mind.

    In fact, it just reveals how utterly pathetic a loud (but small minority) the Firefox crowd has.

  81. Electric Zombie says:

    You flew 800 miles to look at a 28×28 pixel icon?

    In other news: Microsoft engineers hard at work innovating a new blue "E" for their browser.

  82. Jonathan Hart says:

    Party on Wayne.

    Party on Garth.

    Excellent

  83. Jordan Moore says:

    First of all, I would like to say how happy I am that two competitors are working together to provide a consistent UI for users; however, I can’t say I’m pleased with the icon itself.

    The use of any acronyms on an international icon is a bad idea, so good job Mozilla on that part. My problem with the icon is that the "broadcast" has no resemblance to feeds or syndication. Unfortunately, it’s probably too late to change the icon now that both camps have accepted it.

  84. Eil says:

    I’m glad (elated, actually) to see that you are attempting to collaborate with the developers of other web browsers.

    It seems to me that Microsoft actually trying to take IE7 in the direction of a really decent web browser rather than just another tool to monopolize the desktop. If the result of this cooperation is that IE7 becomes a halfway decent browser, I might not be quite so adamant that all my friends and family use Firefox exclusively in the future.

    The one thing I’m still waiting to hear on is real web standards compliance. That would be a deal-maker for myself and a lot of my fellow developers.

  85. I like to see the same color, the same icon and consistency for better understanding in the future.

  86. Mark Czubin says:

    Nice one! I wish microsoft stopped developing it’s own standards of everything.

    –linux abuser– 😉

  87. Stewart says:

    Wow, microsoft co-operating with *other* browsers.

    This can only be a good thing, next to stop the poliforation ( spelling) of RSS implementations.

  88. Travis says:

    What is with everyone lambasting this?

    Hell, I’ll admit, i use ArchLinux 95% of my time on my machine. I do not use many Microsoft products, but you people are claiming microsoft stole yet another firefox idea — come on. Can you not comprehend why this was done?

    Standards.

    At least we can hopfully have SOME standards developing.

    Grow up, kudos to Mozilla and IE for their collaboration.

  89. M Brockman says:

    Looks like a sound toggle to me, good luck describing this to anyone in the real world over the phone.

  90. TheMaskedWonder says:

    This cooperation should be a general model for the Future.

  91. Manfred Mann II says:

    <i>In fact, it just reveals how utterly pathetic a loud (but small minority) the Firefox crowd has.</i>

    Please, do you actually think the ‘lolz0rz! Micro$oft stlo teh icon!!1!!!’ crowd represents all Firefox users? Let me take a guess – you use Opera, right?

    Back on topic, I say that I can fully respect both Mozilla and Microsoft for this decision. I’s nice to hear work being done on maintainting consistent interfaces making browser choice easier no matter what browser you choose.

    -A proud Firefox user, Opera liker, and Opera community disliker

    P.S. Sorry if this double-posts. Stupid net connection.

  92. Chris Jones says:

    I sure hope that the visit MS made to Mozilla was not just about using some stupid icon.

    How about work together so the damn browser renders look the same and the developers of web sites don’t have to program in broswer checkers so their code works properly.

  93. Hard to believe they went for the RSS icon designed by the Firefox team. Good job!

  94. Jesse says:

    This collab with the firefox team is one of the most competent things I’ve heard of microsoft doing. You know what would really pull me back into the market for at least some microsoft software? Linux Compatibility. I know, I know. Free analogs, and all that. I’m jsut saying, I’d buy a heck of a lot more microsoft software if I could use it on all of my boxes, and interoperability were less of an issue. Just my two cents.

  95. MikeFM says:

    Great. I for one wouldn’t mind if you borrowed more from Firefox. Use of the Gecko engine would be a great start. Let users have a highbred of the current IE and Firefox interfaces with the fantastic security, rendering, and standards support of Mozilla. As a web developer I’m really tired of designs working well in Firefox, Safari, and usually Opera but totally not working in IE. PLEASE FIX THAT! I’m tired of IE users getting a crappy looking site while only 15% of my users get all the features and looks of the full thing. Borrow more from Mozilla!

  96. annonymous says:

    I liked the IE7 icon better :<

  97. Excellent news. I’m very glad to hear that. Any move towards consistency and collaboration between the browser kings is very welcome indeed.

  98. annonymous says:

    I mean, the RSS written one

  99. Peter says:

    Hmm, just a question – which i already mentioned one year ago on a mozilla blog. The logo for rss feeds looks from the colors and design like the icon made almost 4 years ago for the http://www.dvbviewer.com/.

    I’m sure it might be a coincidence, but i’m a bit unsure.

  100. Vince P says:

    I love how these egomaniacs posting comments (especially the ones who dont run windows) think that anyone cares that they will continue to not use Windows or IE.

    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    Are you guys this insufferable in person too?

    -Vince p

  101. Steve says:

    It’s good to see browser teams collaborating. It’d be great to have a consistant interface whatever your browsing preference.

  102. Pete says:

    OK, a graphic standard is good.

    However, what about the (alternative) text that describes the icon? Shouldn’t that be standardized as well, so that folks using assistive technology like screen readers can easily locate RSS feeds on a web page?

    If a true standard is your goal, don’t forget about users with disabilities, and how they will use this information!

  103. Ronald Poi says:

    I hate Microsoft but this is by far, one of the best things i’ve read about IE7… keep making everything user-friendly and the world will be happy.

  104. Ricardo says:

    I’d rather use Firefox anyway…

  105. Good ! Next step : porting of IE7 on *nix platform !

    😉

  106. Erik Weibust says:

    Awesome! Collaboration and cooperation is wonderful!

    Erik Weibust

  107. rob says:

    Dance with the devil … Microsoft are masters at making friends when it suits them. Just like banks …

    In the future, RSS will become more bi-directional, hence this icon will be visually wrong.

  108. Steve Doria says:

    This is great, but being able to use CSS to format a page and have it render consistently on both browsers would be awesome. OTOH, this is definitely a good move toward consistency and standardization on the Internet.

  109. bo says:

    just nice – keep on!

  110. Bob Archer says:

    I agree with two comments made here…

    1. Great idea/job that both browers will have the same icon for a RSS/Atom fee.

    2. The icon looks like wireless or sound related.

    I personally like Newsgators Icon that is put on the IE toolbar when you install Newsgator Outlook. All browsers should adopt it, or similar.

    BOb

  111. Wonderful! Really!

    Now, please, will you copy CSS and XHTML parsing too from Gecko? And PNG correct support, please…

    Maybe junking MSHTML and integrating Gecko once and for all, just to show that you RESPECT deveopers as you say in all Dev Meetings…

    Please, focus on making Exploder something a litle more in standard… For the sake of a nicer web.

    For us all…

    Thanx.

  112. LinWinOverlord says:

    I am a Linux user as well as a Windows user… Speaking for myself and others, I am glad that we are finally standardizing the icons for all this stuff… Maybe they might compete by offering the Internet Explorer program for Linux that works like Galeon and Konqueror…

  113. 王小虎 says:

    只要是符合用户要求的,我们就支持!

  114. macewan says:

    Does this mean msnspace will hammer out an agreement with Ubuntu over they’re logo?

    http://www.macewan.org/copy.png

  115. josepht says:

    how about standardizing all the other icons:

    Back, Forward, Refresh, Stop, Home, Find, Bookmarks.

    and call them Bookmarks instead of Favorites for christ sake! not all web pages in my bookmarks are my favorites. the proper term is Bookmark! or ‘Webmark’ 🙂

  116. Jasp says:

    "Er, it is the same icon used in Firefox 1.5 (go to a page with an RSS feed and you should see the icon appear in the address bar as the button to create a "Live Bookmark")."

    They’re very similar, but slightly different.

  117. Play says:

    Now you just have to stop using ActiveX. 🙂

  118. rss says:

    Many of you have asked if you can use the icon. The Mozilla team told us that anyone can use it.

  119. Heywood Jablowme says:

    OMFG!!!

    IT’S AN ICON!!!

    I’VE GOT A HUGE FVCKING CHUB!!!

    I’M GOING TO CREAM ALL OVER THE KEYBOAAASDLKFJ

    OOPS, TOO LATE!!!

    THIS IS THE BEST EVAR

  120. Adam says:

    Yeh yeh yeh Firefox the best i never come back to IE :p

  121. Webdroid says:

    Way to go! It simply was the only choice! Give us even more compatibily please. Presently. To often I have to switch from one browser to the other depending on which pages I am visiting. Yes. Ultimately. It is up to the designers of these sites to get it staight. Ultimately, standards are the only way to make a developers life simpler, not to mention lowering the costs and frustration of any company wanting to make teir presence known on the world wide web and beyound!

    Thanks for a small, but great decision.

    Keep up the good work.

  122. Florian says:

    Kudos for doing the right thing and getting together with the Mozilla people to decide on a common icon to use. Who’d have thought that of all the product teams in Microsoft the IE7 team would be the one to really open up to the OSS "competition" and even collaborate? Someone in hell must surely feel chilly these days!

    Even though I am very unlikely to be using IE7 (because I never found IE to be a usable browser) I am extremely delighted to see you guys working together with the other browser developers, including the OSS ones, to create a common browsing experience for all users. I sure hope you’ll keep that up in other, even more important areas, too.

    As for the icon: of all available choices it certainly is the best one. But it still sucks as an icon to represent feeds, bearing too much resemblence with icons used for wireless and audio. I’d be hesistant to put it on my website as the linking icon for an RSS feed. So I’m all for you spending more bucks on arranging another get-together with the other browser developers, including Opera and Konqueror, and have as one topic the creation of a new icon for RSS/Atom feeds that really fits its meaning and that everyone then uses.

  123. Michal says:

    microsoft sucks so much… It’s pathetic that they are copying even icons from open source’s world. There was TCP/IP stack from FreeBSD, now MPI clustering, fireox icon and who knows rest?

  124. Prediction here – MS is planning on buying Mozilla/Firefox. This icon thing is a deception.

  125. Tim says:

    I especially like the fact that it’s not the same (no sarcasm).

    It’s good to make it recognizable for everyone, but I like the fact that you didn’t *copy* it. For example, the direction of the highlight appears to be different.

    Same symbol as Firefox, but it should still be Microsoft, and it is. ^_^

  126. Arlan says:

    Man ive used FireFox since it came out and never even noticed the icon. Frankly I dont think many users will notice it let alone care that its there. Ohh well, your trying, thats all that counts.

  127. Jeremy says:

    Quote: «I hope you allow Mozilla to use your icons and other resources if they so wish in the future.»

    That’s an interesting idea.

    But nevermind, this is a great idea

  128. exonie says:

    Well, an icon is a.. well it’s a start 🙂

    But yet users like me will be much more happier if you standardize bookmarks for example. Say, an XML standard. This way one could store all his bookmarks in one place and use them from any browser. Hmm.. and not just browsers.

    I think THAT would be a real collaboration. And much more appreciated!

  129. Jonathan Rockway says:

    Now that you have decided on an icon, all you need to do is rewrite the HTML-rendering engine to be somewhat standards compliant. Great first step though. *cough*.

  130. Happy Icon User says:

    # using the icon

    Many of you have asked if you can use the icon. The Mozilla team told us that anyone can use it.

    Thursday, December 15, 2005 10:04 PM by Team RSS @ Microsoft

    ————————–

    Thanks

  131. ph says:

    You had to travel to decide to do something good for the user? Sad…

    Oh, and as others have said, the icon is not that great. Sound, wireless, radio, space signals, almost any broadcast, yes. Pulling information, no.

  132. Johnny says:

    I love to see IE with more advanced features like tabbed browsing and extensions integration and more secure browser. I hope IE 7 will have all these features. my blogs http://blog-magic.blogspot.com and http://cheap-laptop-review.blogspot.com

  133. Zach says:

    "Why do we need IE7 anyway? Unless, you make it open source, uninstallable and bug-free, I don’t see a need for this browser.

    Thursday, December 15, 2005 12:25 PM by Vipul "

    This is about an icon – and a quarter of you still freak out. Funny.

    Why do we need IE7?

    Tell ya what buddy – you come up with the billons of dollars it would cost to convert all existing intranets, from local in home ones – to fortune 500 companies – and then you can ask that question. Oh, while you are at it – you need to find something that can do the same exact thing fully as ActiveX – find some more billions to re-write all those components that are used in intranets, virus scanners, etc.

  134. Zach says:

    ..oh yea – you would need a some more billions to rewrite all the software that uses the Webbrowser control…also have a lot of software/tools that are HTAs, and an uncountable older websites that have very useful info on them, are not maintained anymore, and only work in IE – you need to rewrite all those also.

  135. C.R. Hinners says:

    I hope the icon will appear on a toolbar button, rather than Firefox’s non-standard GUI metaphor of placing a clickable icon /inside/ a drop-down list box…

  136. matthew says:

    Its god to see MS attempting to follow standards, or at least creating them with someone else, but like many others I dont think its a particularly good icon for RSS/ATOM et al.

    Worrying about RSS being different form ATOM is a tad pedantic, I think RSS can encompass ATOM quite happily.

    RE <i>"Tell ya what buddy – you come up with the billons of dollars it would cost to convert all existing intranets, from local in home ones – to fortune 500 companies – and then you can ask that question. Oh, while you are at it – you need to find something that can do the same exact thing fully as ActiveX – find some more billions to re-write all those components that are used in intranets, virus scanners, etc."</i>

    Well you know, if people who use Firefox or whatever and visit those sites, can use them properly, then complain to the relevant companies then maybe those self same companies will fix their ways.

    We only have those problems because of MS and its attempt to take over the browser world in the past (whilst forgetting to support same technologies on the Mac). They need to seriously change their ways and NOT implement these proprietary technologies in their browser however fancy schmancy they might be. Remember, the user is king, NOT the technology.

    ..A non MS using Mac user.

  137. Marc says:

    It’s nice to see that Mozzila is so forthcoming when it comes to sharing resources, perhaps there is something to learn here. Kudos for taking the initiative though, it’s a nice effort to simplify things for the end user, I hope to see more.

  138. John Chang says:

    <p><img alt="80211b_Airport_Logo.gif" src="http://jrc.freality.org/blog/archives/80211b_Airport_Logo.gif&quot; width="36" height="46" /><br>

    Apple AirPort wireless technology (circa 2000).</p>

    ‘Nuff said.

  139. Martin N says:

    Good news, but what happened to principle #2 – that it be a rectangle? I definitely prefer this outcome, I just thought those were hard rules.

  140. Mike says:

    The BEST IE would be no IE at all in windows.

    who needs this crap anyway?

  141. Albert says:

    You took a trip to Silicon Valley to talk about an icon?

  142. fred says:

    Hmm… funny a familiar Firefox icon seems like such a big deal. FF is my default browser, except for MS update websites and other "broken" websites.

    Most folks just want a browser to work as safely on their computer as a toaster does in the kitchen. And as a computer clean-up guy, I’d like MS to make a browser as easily invulnerable to hijacking as FF. But even FF requires a bit of sophistication to know why IE has been bad and FF is better the last few years. (More general computer knowledge required than knowing how to use a toaster with general kitchen knowledge.) A general use computer is no longer the sole domain of "geeks" in modern culture.

    Y’all keep pressuring MS to do better for home and corporate PCs. Sadly, MS will probably never really get it because MS, as a world monopoly, can be mediocre on everything with immunity. Even the simple Japanese apple grower or chicken egg producer has personal pride in each product because of the culture of individual pride in perfection. Most musicians around the world have a similar mindset towards achieving perfection. Such a mindset hasn’t yet been adopted by MS B-flat programming community yet. (Maybe there’s a problem with writing programs for Windows, always having to kludge problems?) The problem with MS the company is it suffers from the pressure of international profit motive, no matter how much good works Bill and Melinda do privately these days (and for which I thank them, privately).

    MS is no longer a US entity, its a world monopoly, so suck it up and deal with it until you’ve made your furtune on MS problems and can retire from the workforce, and let the new troops carry on. The US tried to limit MS’s monopoly, but didn’t have worldwide support back then. Stuff happens.

    fred

  143. r_y_a_n says:

    Looks like crap, it’s a direct rip off of Apple’s Airport icon. Lame, come up with something original for once. 🙁

  144. Bob says:

    Just use Mozilla and be done with it. You’d all be better off.

    Heck, you want a rock solid browser, more secure than anything else on the market? Konqueror’s your ticket.

  145. A says:

    Browser Consistency? Isn’t IE the sole cause of browser inconsistancy? How about the complete lack of regard for standards and implementing useless and pointless attributes onto HTML tags that have no need for them. Why are there "marginheight" attributes on the body tag anyway? isn’t that what the style attribute and CSS style sheets are ment to do?

    If you want browser consistancy then you should follow W3C standards TO THE LETTER, that way no matter which of my browsers I use my web pages will look the same.

    Atleast with IE7 I will be able to fix my install of IE, damn thing REFUSES to allow me to uninstall/reinstall IE to fix a problem because its an intergral part of the OS (hmm apparently solitare and minesweeper are also integrel parts of windows lol).

    Maybe we could see people following standarss and making browsers better by adding features to the browser itself instead of tampering with rendering to try and "lock" users onto a browser. Or as is common users have to use multipule browsers. I have 2, Firefox because IE reliable crashes if a homepage is set (which annoys me) and IE to access a few pages which don’t work right or sites that use poor user agent sniffing (Firefox is NOT an old version of Netscape!).

    Having said this common UI is very important. Can we get a consencious on where ‘options’ should be and what it should be called. One of the biggest annoyances is that although most other menu options are in pretty much the same place, I have seen options called preferances, options, settings and many more and seen them under menu items such as file, edit, view, tools, help.

  146. Bramus! says:

    Omg, all those people whining about Microsoft this and Microsoft that.

    Guys, praise yourselves lucky that we, the user, have to choice to choose the software we want to use.

    Praise yourselves lucky that there will be a uniform way to identify something (RSS in this case).

    Praise yourselves lucky that Microsoft is making IE7 which will be huge improvement for the regular user.

    No need to b*tch around about "ripoff", "i hate ms", and other brainless-like issues.

    Think Positive: It’s good to "encourage consistency between browsers". A user will then very easily make the switch from one browser to another (e.g. when surfing on an other pc where FX is the default browser, an IE user will find its way around too).

    Best regards.

  147. vinphill says:

    OTL..

    Well done.

  148. Jim says:

    <a href="http://www.mascpecialist.org">mascpecialist.org</a&gt; has created an installer to replace your safari icons with the new industry standard set. The installer can be <a href="http://www.macspecialist.org/content/articles/lets_hold_hands/">found here</a>

  149. Mark Kenny says:

    You know, I used to be one of those people who hated Microsoft. It’s weird, isn’t it, how a small annoyance about a piece of software can turn into a full blown hatred for a company…

    But your work on IE 7 has completely changed my outlook. I’m now proud to be a Windows user, well done!

  150. Aaron says:

    HEY – wpSlider – grow up. Apple and M$ BOTH stole the GUI from Xerox PARC – and it wasn’t really stealing since PARC labs was shut down anyway. All they did was poach their (ex)people.

    Guys, keep up the great work. I would love to see even more collaboration between the IE and Firefox teams – but then, I’d like to see an ActiveX/.NET equivalent that ran on any platform, and I probably won’t.

    As for all you Linux and Mac geeks out there – resistance is futile. Join the dark side now and avoid the rush (like when your platforms die due to lack of user support – can you say Slackware?). Windows XP just works, and it works better than anything you boys have. Bear in mind that I deal with all 3 major platforms, plus Solaris, all day every day, and my KVM toggles between 4 different OSes. Frankly, Microsoft has outdone itself with XP and Vista is going to be even better. The new development attitude in the place is showing with products like IE7. This stuff is brilliant.

    4 years ago, I would never have believed that I am about to say this. But here it is…. Go Microsoft go!

  151. drawkbox says:

    Humans are so silly. Firefox, Microsoft and Google are all the same company. You are falling for it. 🙂

  152. Az1Nj says:

    The best IE7 is NO IE 7 Just use Firefox or Opera or any Linux Distro With Firefox an Icon isnt a world changing event I havent used IE for months esp with the IE tab and such extensions in Firefox (even works with Windows update)

  153. Phroggy says:

    Aaron – if you think Slackware is dead due to lack of user support, you’re sadly mistaken; not only is the user base still fanatical (in a non-confrontational way), but the distribution is still actively developed and maintained. 10.2 is significantly improved over 10.1 (e.g. saslauthd is now included, which would have saved me a lot of time on a mail server I set up before 10.2 was released; PHP is now configured in a way that works with Horde, which would have saved me even more time). Slackware isn’t right for everyone (if you have no interest in learning anything, Slackware isn’t for you) but it’s very much alive; please don’t spread FUD to the contrary. 🙂

    I agree with most of the sentiment here: the fact that Microsoft is cooperating with Mozilla on this is AWESOME, and has significantly improved my impression of the company.

    At the same time, the icon sucks and somebody should come up with a new one for everybody to standardize on (but this time get Apple and Opera and the Konqueror team involved too!). No, Safari’s blue RSS icon is an even worse choice, as TBO explained.

    For everyone who’s whining about priorities and fixing IE’s broken CSS support before worrying about icons, you’re forgetting that the people who can fix the CSS support are not the same people who design the browser UI (nor should they be), and not getting this icon figured out wouldn’t make CSS development go any faster. IE7 has <b>better</b> CSS support than IE6, as well as good PNG support. IE isn’t going away no matter how much you wish it would, so whining that it’s not perfect isn’t constructive.

    When Microsoft does something right, they should be commended, not flamed. This is, unquestionably, one of those times.

  154. How may I "encourage" the IE development team to work day and night if required to implement support for "sidebars" which we IE users and developers must fake with a cheap HTML attribute hack?

    The usefullness of target="_search" can not be understated. However the confusing user interface which comes with the hack is a significant usability problem.

    It seems to me that "other" browsers — those which we want to encourage consistency with — do in fact support implementations which allow for the development and use of the sidebar.

    The fact that the IE development team has over-looked this opportunity eventually compromising and implementing the target hack suggested a hopeful future, a future when the IE development team building the next release of IE would do the right thing for the right reasons.

    I hope you don’t let me down.

  155. Have you seen http://www.feedicons.com yet? Matt Brett (mattbrett.com) heard about this and set up a "care package" of RSS-icons-templates for all o’ us to use on our sites — you know, to help increase mass acceptance even more.

  156. Buster Neece says:

    As both a web designer and developer, it doesn’t matter to me how trivial this little post about some little icon really is.

    This post speaks volumes to me, because it’s the kind of statement that makes me slowly but surely shift my view of Microsoft, from the soulless corporation whose only responsibility is to generate profit to a group of dedicated real people with aspirations of a user-friendly Internet.

    Sure, the news could be revealed tomorrow that this was exactly the intent, that it was all a plot to rally support for the blue E, and to make the everyday end-user with IE7 preinstalled wonder, "What’s the difference?", but I no longer see a use for that kind of mentality.

    Since there is no looming (or even imagined) threat of Firefox becoming its own standalone operating system (like there was with its predecessor), the jobs of the IE team no longer ride on their ability to dominate, but to integrate fluidly with their standardized peers so that one day, we may not need to ever type the words "This page looks best in" again.

    RSS is a technology I use and love, and while I could talk all day about the time we developers have waited for IE to adopt the idea, it’s just nice to see it finally happening.

    With Firefox, necessity was the mother of invention. Now that the invention has started again, it’s time for the team at IE to stop the bleeding of their popularity, place themselves at the cutting edge, and return the smiles to the faces of web developers everywhere by holding hands with their fellow browsers and just getting along.

  157. Eleos says:

    Same sh*t again and again…. stupid kids without knowledge parroting the "FX Rulez" (and linux rulez) and feel like their doing a revolution.

    You dont even know that you it’s FX and not FF (check the mozilla site for this) and you’ve writing tones of junk b*llshits for a f*cking ICON! Mercy !!!!!

    Thanks god some folks ask about CSS rendering, Javascript, compartibility, security etc…

  158. Bob says:

    doesn’t matter what icon they use, IE will still suck @ss.

    Go Safari!!!

  159. Bob again says:

    from what I’ve read, and beta testers have told me, IE7 doesn’t pass the ACID2 test. Putting sprinkles on a cowpie doesn’t change the fact that it is still shit.

    Safari Rocks!!!!

  160. Bob again says:

    from what I’ve read, and beta testers have told me, IE7 doesn’t pass the ACID2 test. Putting sprinkles on a cowpie doesn’t change the fact that it is still sh*t.

    Safari Rocks!!!!

  161. Graham says:

    It’s a good decision. Surprising that whoever came up with RSS didn’t have an ID (Icon) for it.

  162. Graham again says:

    I think – Bob again – has missed the point. This is about the standardization of the RSS Icon, and not whether Safari, IE, Mozzie or at the Opera is better.

    Anyway Apple will never be more than a flea because it has always been overpriced. It is creative designed hardware though.

  163. Chris says:

    Are these icons any site?

  164. Chris says:

    Is this new icon legal to use on any website?

  165. Great, you have a 16 pixels square icon. Why not accept slightly more important standards, like CSS (which IE still doesn’t support properly nearly a decade after it was introduced) and PNG (which anyone who doesn’t like being sued needs to use as their web graphics format)

  166. Well done Microsoft, this is excellent news. As a Windows user who develops themes for serendipity blog I’m really happy to see you guys working with Mozilla, even if it is only a small step.

    Those people who want to know about using this on the website should check out http://www.feedicons.com/ where you can download the source for this icon to use in your designs.

    Carl

  167. Bill says:

    designers and developers, should not provide support for IE at all. purposely make it appear broken in IE. then everyone will realize what a crappy browser IE is.

    please stop allowing automatic install of plugins and programs.

  168. Team RSS.

    Keep up the great work that you are doing. I made a blog entry about how this RSS Icon is really way to go and this will help the user experience become cleaner.

    You can read the post here

    http://blog.podblaze.com/public/item/112964

    I also Author 6 blogs about RSS, Podcasting, RSS Business uses, RSS Communication uses, RSS marketing uses etc. That are all focused around RSS and where this great technology is moving user experiences.

    I also agree that the enclosure should be used for multiple file types such as PPT, calenders, lists, PDF, photos, etc. and not just Audio. This is referencing the channel 9 interview with robert from right before gnomedex.

    Keep up the excellent work!

    Rodney Rumford

    Founder: http://podblaze.com

  169. bioxide says:

    MS have stolen every open source idea since they started. As simple as this is, MS still didnt create this icon by themselves. A HUGE step for IE 7 would be to remove ActiveX and for god sakes, can MS PLEASE add better functionality for HTML and CSS. Not to mention i think that MS Update should work with firefox!

  170. adarro says:

    We may be ‘1 teams’ yet.

    It’s nice to see the big boys playing together 🙂

  171. SebastianV says:

    Great.

    Now I’m wondering if there’ll be an animated standard version of the icon.

    Kind regards,

    Seb

  172. Jim says:

    That is a bunch of crap! When firefox wants to encourage consistancy between browers aka using something from IE, Microsoft gets pissy. But it’s okay for Microsoft to borrow Fx stuff.

  173. David says:

    Thanks 🙂

    To all of you going on about "FX RuLeZ" and all that crap, please stop (yes, both sides of the argument). As well, Microsoft isn’t stealing from anyone. Mozilla agreed that the icon may be used by them.

    Thanks again

    … I like standards 🙂

  174. Petit says:

    I fully agree that a universal icon traversing language barriers and knowledge barriers is what we should have. Words are language dependent, and for most end users RSS and its interpretations lacks meaning.

    The proposed icon, which I support, may in a sense resemble icons for sound or any other radiation, but when we have one special symbol for all feeds, we’ll learn the meaning. ( Imagination would even suggest that feed are a kind of radiation :).

    <a href="http://petitpub.com/blog/2006/02/11/feed-icon-debate/">Read my post</a> for my views and some debating links!

  175. Micro IE7 Hater says:

    Maybe team Micro cant beat the good Team Mozilla and found out that the only way to achieve a good browser is to copy the succeful one YEAH way to go Bil gates just like what you did to MAC TEAM..:P

  176. john says:

    I’m really glad this happened. I read the original post and even being a Microsoft fan, felt that it was a shame that another set of visual cues were going to be put in place. Working with the Moz guys was a great idea!

  177. Well, looks like I’ll need to add another icon to my page until everyone gets used to the new icon. 🙂

  178. Alex McKee says:

    Well done for working with Mozilla and creating a new standard.

  179. dwk says:

    firefox is an ugly rip-off of (mainly) Opera and (partly) IE.

    Anyone want to know what really happened to Netscape? People didn’t stop using it because they were somehow ‘forced’ to. THEY STOPPED USING IT BECAUSE THEY SUDDENLY HAD AN ALTERNATIVE TO THAT ROTTEN JUNK.

    If Mozilla (not MS) had majority share, then all the angry crazy fanatical lunatics would be crucifying mozilla instead. Just look at how buggy mozilla composer is! I don’t know another program that actively ignores user commands as well as Composer does).

    People who think it should be illegal to dominate the market like MS does; are crazy socialistic imbeciles. If they had their way (e.g. N Korea, Cuba) then no-one would be _allowed_ to dream or aspire to anything other than mediocrity.

  180. wumpscut.org says:

    embrace, extend, extinguish anyone?

  181. wam says:

    come on, stop developping web browsers, the open community can do it for you.

    I don’t catch the point developping a new IE7 to steal the icon, the tabbed browsing and the google search field.

    It’s a waste of money, you can sell your OS the same price!

  182. ZYV says:

    dwk you’re drunken.

    I don’t know if this opinion has already been expressed, but I think it would be nice to adopt the rest of Mozilla (Gecko, ..) as well.

    P.S. And as a long-term experience, think about replacing this legendary (un)stable NT 5.2 with the BSD kernel just like Apple did.

  183. The best IE7 is NO IE 7 Just use Firefox or Opera or any Linux Distro With Firefox an Icon isnt a world changing event I havent used IE for months esp with the IE tab and such extensions in Firefox (even works with Windows update)

  184. kira says:

    Just use Mozilla and be done with it. You’d all be better off.

    Heck, you want a rock solid browser, more secure than anything else on the market? Konqueror’s your ticket.

    http://sexechatfr.en.wanadoo.es

  185. Ashley says:

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    It’s good to see browser teams collaborating. It’d be great to have a consistant interface whatever your browsing preference

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  186. Ashley says:

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    It’s good to see browser teams collaborating. It’d be great to have a consistant interface whatever your browsing preference

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  187. Raman B.V. says:

    Exemplary gesture from MSDN team. Kudos!!

  188. Ray says:

    drugs man the icon sux

  189. gaga says:

    yes i agree with you http://praca.owi.pl

  190. alan says:

    Tweak Window is a handy window enhancement utility with a wealth of options. You can set your own transparency options, hide, minimize, roll up, place window on top of all others, make it "ghost" or even change window icon/title. All of this can be done via hotkeys, though window’s system menu or by adding appropriate buttons to the window itself. Now no one will be able to see what windows you have open.

    http://www.yaodownload.com/utilites/desktop-enhancements/tweakwindow/

  191. HappySpaceInvdr says:

    Not sure where people get off complaining that Microsoft have ripped off OSX Tiger’s GUI for Windows Vista.

    There may be some features in Windows Vista beta 2 that bear a superficial resemblance to Widgets, Spotlight & 2D/3D Window handling, but they are all so poorly implemented that it would be doing a disserive to Apple to call them rip-offs.

  192. Jagadeesh says:

    Hi, how to capture the unload event in safari browser, i tried with different ways, but i failed to capture that event, so please help me on this, before closing of the window i need to do something. That is onUnload=function(); is not working. There is any way to capture or not. Thanx.