A Chat about Messenger


Hi, my name is Anav and I work on the Messenger for Mac product in Mac BU. I follow the blog and newsgroup comments out there and I know there are questions on the status of Messenger for Mac, and more specifically the status of Audio/Video (AV) support. It’s been a while since we’ve given you an update on Messenger, so here it goes…


First, let me start by saying, Messenger for Mac is alive and well and we plan to continue investing in the application. In August we released Messenger for Mac 6.0.3, which introduced support for Danish, Finnish, and Norwegian languages. Messenger for Mac 6.0.3 is also the version that will ship with Office 2008. A couple of weeks ago we kicked off a closed beta program of Messenger for Mac 7.0 for corporate customers*, and made great progress in the implementation of AV in Messenger for Mac.


You might recall the Mac Mojo blog post on this topic a while back ("Messenger: haves and hA/Ve nots"), we shared with you some details on the technical challenges involved in delivering AV in Messenger for Mac. Just to recap, Messenger for Mac supports both the Corporate service (Office Communications Server) and Personal service (Windows Live Service). Messenger for Mac is adopting the AV stack (protocol) that is being used by Office Communications Server (OCS). Windows Live Messenger is also currently adopting that same AV stack. This is great for Messenger for Mac since it enables us to adopt one single AV stack to be used in both services, Personal and Corporate.


OK, that’s the short recap of what we shared with you previously (I recommend reading the blog post for the long version), now on to a status of where we are. We have hit the first major milestone toward AV for all by successfully implementing AV for the Corporate service in the Messenger for Mac 7.0 beta. This is a closed beta program offered to organizations deploying OCS 2007 and is aligned with the Unified Communications products launch that took place October 2007. In our previous blog post we mentioned that you will see the AV solution on Corporate service before Personal, and so we are on track with that plan.


The AV solution for the Corporate service is really cool. I’m dogfooding the feature at work and I’m using a video conversation with co-workers using Office Communicator on Windows. Even better, I’m chatting with MacBU co-workers like Akiko (who works in Japan), Eric (who works in Ireland) and Rebecca (who works in Atlanta) -- and finally I see what they look like! ☺. Sorry to be teasing you here, but trust me when I tell you, we can’t wait to deliver AV in both Corporate and Personal Messenger that you can all use as well.


That leads to the next question – "what about AV for the Personal service?"  Since we’ve successfully implemented AV for Corporate service, and the AV stack we are using is being adopted right now by Windows Live Messenger, that means we are that much closer to having an AV solution on Personal service. However, we’re not there yet. To ensure compatibility between Windows Live Messenger and Messenger for Mac, we have to wait until Windows Live Messenger completes their transition to the new AV stack before we can deliver this on our end. This leads us to the topic of why it is we have all these dependencies…


One of the most important goals for product development in Mac BU is making sure that the products we deliver work cross platform. Since Messenger is a real-time communication solution, enabling users to communicate cross-platform is very important. To accomplish this, the protocols used by the Mac and Windows programs have to be the same. Hence, the dependencies… The good news is that Windows Live Messenger has made great progress on the integration of the new AV stack in to their system. Unfortunately, we can’t give you a specific time frame in which you will see a Messenger for Mac release with AV for the Personal service. However, we can say that it is definitely in progress.


So you may be wondering what the Messenger for Mac team is up to in the mean time… well, aside from vacationing on a deserted island (just kidding)… The serious answer is that we are working very hard to complete the AV work for the Corporate service for the next version, as well as helping out the Office for Mac team to deliver Office 2008.


For those of you who are patiently waiting, I just want to say thank you for your patience and bear with us a little longer as the work is in progress and hopefully it will be worth the wait. It will be pretty priceless to see family, friends, and co-workers sending you a real smile through a video conversation in addition to the smiley emoticon through IM…


* Messenger for Mac Corporate beta program is a closed beta and offered to selected enterprise organizations. For more information about this beta program please contact your Microsoft Account Manager.

Comments (99)

  1. Biel says:

    Okay, I understand that we have to wait for the WLM chance their AV stacks to release a messenger with video for mac, but why not release a version NOW with other features, like Winks, or add animated emotions from disk or any of the other features that WLM offers for its windows users?

    If you give us just that, i’m sure we would be more willing to wait until the video/audio feature came…

  2. John says:

    Thanks for at least telling us what is going on. I’m definitely less mad than I was before. Transparency is a good thing!

    If only Apple could do it….

  3. Dustin Reid says:

    I understand that you guys have been working hard to make this a reality, but the fact of the matter is that Windows users have had video chatting for years and we still don’t have anything. I know you love the Mac platform as much as I do, and maybe you’ve noticed something I do nearly every time I switch someone. They log into MSN and the first thing they say is "where’s the webcam button".. You can explain in all technicality you want, but most people just don’t understand. "How can a computer with a webcam not video chat??"

    At this point, I think you’re taking the right action. Focussing on the newest technology is the best road to be on. That said, haven’t we waited long enough? I know cross-platform compatibility is the primary objective here, but I feel like its more crippling than helpful in this case. I’d be satisfied video chatting with only Mac users for the time being, heck, I’d be ecstatic.

  4. Tony says:

    It is ironic to me that one of the most powerful companies in the world cannot instantly change these things to work with one another.  Such a simple problem, but its taken you HOW LONG to fix it, and you still haven’t.  It seems to me like this is more about selling copies of Windows than making a good product for macintosh.  I really do not believe that Microsoft could not have made audio/video work at the same time they made it work on windows.  Now it could be that the Mac BU is underfunded?  I don’t know.  But either way, if this isn’t the issue, this is the message Microsoft is sending to a lot of Mac users.

  5. Andy K says:

    I get bored of the whole A/V wait long since, unfortunately. I found I didn’t need it too much, and Skype beat Messenger for cross-platform video months back. And with the wait involved, installing Skype on friend/family PCs will be quicker than waiting for the the two Messengers to communicate properly..

    I hate to be a downer, but for at least some of us here in the UK this is the reality. We’ve grown past needing it, and waiting on the corporate side just adds to the frustration.

    But what about the other features? Getting the Personal Message field to expand on mouseover, or putting it in the chat-window? Slimming down the UI a little? Maybe even tabbed chat-windows? Other things people have been asking for (or about) since *before* the A/V blog posts – which itself was over a year ago now.

    Third-party apps are catching up, and fast. And it’s not just the A/V, as some can’t even do that yet, but they’re still popular.

  6. Marco says:

    Ok, but will you still update messenger for mac v.6.0.x? I mean, it still does not have basic features like automatically reconnect on disconnection, can’t add custom nickname for buddies, no avatar preview on contact list. I think those are really simple features to add, isn’t it?

  7. Thomas says:

    Biel: I was just about to post the same comment. If the MBU would just keep the Mac-version up to par with WLM, there would be so many satisfied people – especially in Europe. The A/V-part can wait, but a nice GUI-refreshment and the same features as WLM would help a lot. Just a tip, MBU…

  8. Albert says:

    Any plans to add offline messaging in upcoming Mac Messenger release?

  9. Cameron says:

    Calling an excuse a reason doesn’t make it any better. Microsoft Messenger for Mac is 6.0 was released after Windows Live Messenger 8.0 final. Mac users have lacked feature parity for almost two years now.

    All this post does is give another excuse for why Microsoft is treating Mac users like second-class citizens. Should there be any trust left? Should we actually believe that WLM will update the AV stack any time soon, or will they choose another option altogether, leaving us waiting again?

    In the end, the only thing keeping me waiting is that I have no other option. Microsoft monopolizes the WLM protocols, and that’s the software people I instant message use. Let’s be honest, Microsoft wants us all using Windows instead, and this is just another tactic.

  10. Adam says:

    what about nudges, offline messages and msn games.

  11. Charles says:

    If you get this program to do Audio/Video… why not get it to do EXACTLY what the PC version does !

  12. Harris says:

    I use to be on PC and I can’t get internnet Explorer because Mac does not have it.  Please tell me if there is an alltentive.  I need Internet Explorer to play the games withmy friends.  

  13. Joe says:

    Can anyone at all give me any kind of indication why I can’t sign in to Windows Live using Messenger 6.0.3? All I get is a message about my Mac not being connected to the internet, and then nothing. Adium logs in fine so… help? And no, I really don’t want to use Adium…

  14. 60six says:

    Rah Rah Entourage! I love you, you database destroying slow-as-treacle web client!

    Less of the pretty buttons – more on substance with ALL office applications.

  15. yeah but when will you expose its guts so it can work with iChat, the _real_ Mac IM client.

  16. "It will be pretty priceless to see family, friends, and co-workers sending you a real smile through a video conversation in addition to the smiley emoticon through IM…"

    Yeah, we’ve been doing that with iChat for years now. Or with skype for those poor souls who still use PC’s. You guys have a knack for making a completely old idea sound like an innovation when its your turn to finally catch up and release a product… or should I say product announcement.

  17. Jeremy C. says:

    I got our Microsoft PL to get our Microsoft AM to get us into the TAP program (or we were already in it) and I know I missed the deadline (October 26th) but I submitted my survey.  I beg you to get me in; I am the Lead Voice Engineer for our Unified Communications Practice and currently deploy all Cisco UC.

  18. justme says:

    Somehow Yahoo manages to keep up on both Windows and OS X. In fact, their development on OS X is positively fast!

    Are Mac BU coders just inferior to their Yahoo counterparts? I know you guys are talented, but COME ON, Yahoo is way ahead of you; and even the way over priced (what eBay paid) and over-hyped (OMG FREE CALLS TO MARS 4EVA) Skype is just leaps and bounds ahead of Messenger for Mac. SKYPE!

    I think people would take slightly buggy new software at this point instead of the no-progress current.

    Let’s see some real action guys!


  19. Macmies says:

    Nice to hear that you actually are implementing video on Mac-Messenger. That would break barriers between mac and pc-users and this world would again be a little better place to live.

  20. Gabe says:

    I think it’s funny how we have to wait for WLM… i mean, those guys get betas and updates all the time… and we so far got the UB update… and that was it… no improvements…

    And wasn’t just released WLM 8.5 like a week ago??? I mean, come on… now we have to wait until WLM 9??? is that a joke? U’ve been saying that you were gonna improve Messenger for Mac for a long time now.. and so far nothing was done.. no winks, no offline messaging, no games, no nudge, no preview photos in the contact list and the list goes on and on..

    It would be really really appreciated if u released a Messenger for Mac 6.5 with all those features. WE CAN WAIT FOR THE AV STUFF IF U GUYS GIVES US SOMETHING TO PLAY WITH NOW!

  21. Bob says:

    this makes me laugh…. APPLE DEVELOPED LEOPARD while you are still trying to develop this "i doubt it will ever come true" messenger for mac…  i mean, come on.. u been saying that AV is coming for Mac for over a year now…  

    all we can do is laugh so… hahahahhahahahahahha

  22. DK says:

    All of the impatience above amuses me to no end.

    As a counter example, I have been asking Apple to allow users to be able to set ACL permissions on XServe AFP shares through their Get Info GUI for over two years, and they still haven’t done this in Leopard.  Only POSIX perms can be set that way.  They expect Mac users to set ACLS at the UNIX command line or use Server Admin with admin rights!!!  This kind of feature has been available on the Security tab for over ten years in Windows, so what is the excuse for not having it in “the world’s most advanced operating system”???

    Apple fans, please stop bashing Microsoft and look in the mirror sometimes.  This stupid carping should end, and both sides should work together constructively instead of pissing and moaning about which side is “better”.

    Software is complicated stuff; there are always more feature requests than resources to implement them, and there are enough warts to go around on both sides, i.e., the item above is only one of many that I could mention.

  23. Terry says:

    So even beyond January 2008 we’re stuck with Messenger 6.0.3, which features a great set of UI bugs and inconsistencies on Mac OS X Leopard? Not to mention the fair share of stability issues it faces on the new operating system as well.

    It really is beyond believe that the Mac BU is unable to find the time to at least address these issues before shipping Office 2008. I’m willing to bet money on the fact that fixing at least some of the UI inconsistencies (like the font/emoticon buttons) would take less time than what you wasted on creating that banner at the top of this article.

    Like people mentioned earlier Yahoo! manages to come up with a pretty decent client on both Windows and Mac OS X. Is it really that hard to follow suit?

  24. Enterprise Mac User says:

    What about more seamless interoperability between Office for Windows and Office for Mac? I can’t stand having formatting issues between the two.

    And also, can you guys have a Windows/Mac keyboard shortcut features on the Mac Office? I don’t like Apples archaic keyboard shortcut structure and if you do create that feature, its much easier for Windows or Linux users because the keyboard shortcuts are more similar to the Mac.

    Outlook for the Mac would be a reason to remove Windows off my Mac. I hate Safari, and there’s Firefox and Firefox doesn’t work well on my Intel Mac, ever thought of bringing back Internet Explorer for the Mac?

    And please fix the stupid formatting issues that goes with the Mac and Windows platforms, which I am having lots of trouble today.


    Enterprise Mac User

  25. RealityNotExcuses says:

    As usual, MacBU likes to boast it has the biggest development team outside of Apple, but the products it comes up with are drivel – Messenger has not been updated for months, and cross platform compatibility is no excuse for the SUB-STANDARD, ANAEMIC Messenger for Mac. Besides the A/V problems, there are tons of other features missing from that version implemented in the Windows Live Messenger program. Sorry to say that the MacBU is not worth its salt unless it comes up with much better Mac products on a regular basis. Otherwise, just please supply to Windows users and stop the tokenism to Mac users funded by fat profits on Office 2004 and Office 2008.

    P.S. The MacOffice2008.com website’s pixellated flash graphics ain’t pretty and hardly a good advertisement for your premier cash-earning Mac product.

  26. mytwocents says:

    I hope we don’t have to wait for WLM9, ’cause the final versione is due end of ’08, beginning of ’09.

  27. DaveG says:

    Thank you for the very informative low content update! I look forward to your future updates “Cleaners enter the MacBU office whilst we’re on messenger” and how can I NOT want to read: “Messenger runs on computers, so you can take a bath whilst its running!”

    Seriously if your not going to bother updating with any useful information, if you’re just going to rehash old promises (A/V next edition, we promise!) then just don’t post about it at all. I’m liking the look of Mac Office 2008 but seriously “we’re working very hard!” is not what I want to read. Dates, Capabilites are some of the things that most would be happy to read about, but seriously one more “Ok we’re working on it but we wont really tell you much” post and you may as well scrap messenger and let the adium guys develop a real client unhampered.

  28. Dude says:

    Ummm Adium anyone????

  29. Enterprise Mac User says:

    Why are you filtering these posts anyways? By filtering the posts, you are covering up the fact that we can’t trust Office ’08, because there isn’t any real concrete info on crossplatform abilities. If you keep filtering the posts, the more I am not going to trust the Mac BU. Luckily, I have Fusion and XP with Office ’03 so I won’t be complaining that much, although I would like a REAL MS Office for the Mac.

  30. Marco says:

    Why don’t we make a list of features, excluding A/V support, that could be easily developed making Messenger:Mac users a little bit happier than now (maybe with a 6.0.4 release):

    1) Support for offline messages

    2) Emoticons’ preview after you’ve typed them

    3) View avatars in contact list

    4) Adding custom nickname for buddies

    5) Auto reconnection after a disconnection

    6) “Add user to this conversation” should be boxed [sorry, i’ve translated it from the italian version, don’t know if in english it is literally the same]

    7) Growl notifications (come on guys, also yahoo uses them :D)

    8) Fix weird emoticons and text button

  31. Eric T. says:

    What we really need is Entourage to sync notes & tasks and basically work as a full Exchange client.  That is “priceless”, to quote the MasterCard adds.

    The value I put on Messenger?  Exactly zero, free.  Same price as for Skype, which I’ve found to be a remarkable and incredibly useful application that does all of this.

    You guys have a core Exchange franchise to protect here.  I seriously am going to migrate OFF Exchange if we don’t get a full-featured Mac client.

    Meanwhile, I’m enjoying Skype.  You should try it.  It rocks.  Might even help your dev team get an Exchange client to us in time for launch.

  32. Shawn says:

    Guys, I actually look forward to Messenger, despite the cynical comments I’m reading about.

    If you’re also part of the Office team, COMPATIBILITY with the Windows side is so key, I think, to making Office sellable to the Mac crowd.

    Just my 2 cents.

  33. rorybowman says:

    Thanks for the update. Clients are constantly asking me about AV for MSFT and YHOO Messengers so it is good to know why they cannot chat with their Windows friends and grandkids (and to be able to tell them that MSFT at least is working on it). I can appreciate the backend business and that you folks are doing what you can. Have fun!

  34. Adam says:

    make it possible to add nicknames

  35. adriaan van wyk says:

    Come on guys. This post is one of the worst we have seen.

    it seems the Mac BU is always explaining why things don’t get delivered, or not working or is 2nd rate to their windows counterparts.

    other software companies like skype and open source vendors have had voice and video on the mac platform for ever.

    do you want us to buy into the largest software org in the world not being able to pull this off in 2 years?

    yeah right. someone else made a good point in one of the posts that you could have done 6.04, but you wont.

    bottom line: mac is not a priority platform and one excuse after the other is getting old. its the same thing that is stopping us from doing DRM mail, sharepoint integration, PST support in Entourage and so much more, while you expect us to get excited about enterprise features like “out of office”… Really?

    and loose the “just kidding and teasing” attitude. rather get serious and give us software.

  36. Angus Fox says:

    Well its woefully bad not to have feature parity with what used to be msn messenger.

    But you guys are missing the whole ‘live’ thing.

    Are you talking to the Windows Live people? Ive asked before why Entourage cant read my hotmail anymore unless I pay money.

    But on messenger the story is just as bad. I need to be able to configure my family access to ‘windows live’ parental control which appears (surprise, surprise) to only run and be supported on and enforced on Windows…

    So that means that unconsciously Microsoft are saying ‘you can only have parental controlled safe messenger access on a Windows PC’

    This sucks.

    For me it means msn is off limits for my kids and presumably any kids because parental control doesnt work.

    For Microsoft it means the Mac BU is not even scratching the surface of ‘feature parity’ for Windows Live. Try using it on a Mac. Its not satisfactory.

  37. Th says:

    integration with parent control!!?

  38. Mark says:

    This is all very well and good, but stating that you’re waiting for the Windows Live Messenger team to ‘finish’, is very similar to saying that you won’t ever be doing anything.

    WLM v9 Beta invites are allready being sent out – they’re racing away from you, and you’re telling us you have to wait for them!

    I appreciate that the Mac community may not be a priority for Microsoft, but you’re either making Messenger for Mac – and doing it well, or not doing at all – in which case stop breaking compatibility for alternative messenger software!

  39. Biel says:

    Okay… so today was release some of the new features of WLM 9.0.. and here are they:

    New features:

    – Sign-in and messaging in multiple locations up to four at once.

    – Signature sounds.

    – Per contact sounds.

    – SPAM Reporting.

    – Animated Display Pictures – supports animated .gif files as display pictures.

    – Link in Personal Status Message – URLs in Personal Status Messages are hot and clickable in the Messenger contact list.

    So does that mean that since we’re waiting for that to get finish, we’re also going to have all the preview features PLUS these new ones.. or the only new feature on Messenger 7.0 for mac will be the AV stuff?

  40. MacManX says:

    I’m pretty sure most of us understand that you have to wait for the implementation of the new A/V technology in WLM9 – but releasing 6.0.3 with Office 2008 is impossible. It simply cannot be done!

    It is clear that the final version of Messenger 7.0 has to wait for WLM9 – so a 6.1 or even a 6.5 version has to be delivered with the new shiny Office 2008!

    Above mentioned features and bug fixes have to be included. 6.0.3 even has tremendous problems showing display pictures…

  41. Chris says:

    Sorry, I’m not waiting.  I’m setting up our entire extended family to video chat with our grandparents/parents.  We will NOT be using Microsoft Messenger.  I’m on a mac and if I can’t use it, no one will sign up.  You must realize that once we get everyone signed up and working on another application, no one will ever be looking to switch.

    Good luck with your update.

  42. John says:

    Why use messenger?? Its fairly basic…There are other programs that host audio and video.

    If you use a mac…forget about microsoft as it would appear you get treated second rate!

  43. MacManX says:

    Why use Messenger, John?

    Simply because 95% of your friends and work mates use it… most of them on Windows. They won’t switch to Yahoo! or AOL or any other app as nearly noone is using them!

  44. Ed says:

    Guys, no need to bitch about it. They are microsoft after all. Even if the MacBU team wants Messenger to be as good as it can be. The management simply wont allow it.

    They are waiting for A/V before releasing next version. I say why not release version 7 with new clean interface, proper support of emotions and nudge? As well  as other small features before another version for AV?

    Time after time again Microsoft has proven they are still the same. No matter how hard they persuade us that they have changed.

  45. Me. says:

    comeone guys.

    stop complaining.

    after all


    spare me.

  46. deltatux says:

    Until Microsoft Messenger has A/V (audio is my most important one), I will continue to use Skype. Plus, the Windows Live Messenger call quality is horrible. I hope the new A/V stack fixes that. About the customisable winks and emoticons, why don’t we have that either?

    Plus, Microsoft, sync the features from Windows to Mac. We are not only corporate users, eh? A lot of people who use Microsoft Messenger are also students, and kids. All we care on Windows Live is how to have fun! Windows Live Messenger reflects that, so why not Microsoft Messenger? Microsoft Messenger looks like a dull boring business messenging client sometimes.

  47. MacManX says:

    To stop the worst moaning (or at least halt it for a while), Anav, why don’t you post a few shiny screenshots of the Messenger 7 Beta?

    Or, at least, give us a list of the new features that are coming up! 🙂

  48. Biel says:

    So… WLM 9 beta is up and running… WHERE IS THE MESSENGER FOR MAC BETA? Or are u guys waiting for them to finish WLM 9 to start building Messenger for Mac??? And what about other features… are we getting any??

    Here’s some screen shots of WLM 9 in case you haven’t seen it yet



  49. MacManX says:

    Biel… you missed the part above where Anav says "A couple of weeks ago we kicked off a closed beta program of Messenger for Mac 7.0 for corporate customers…"

    We can only hope there will be a public beta soon!

  50. Ed says:

    Yes. And in case no body knows WLM 9.0 is schedule for end of 2008 or Start of 2009.

    That means we have to wait another 1 – 2 years for Mac Messenger 7.0

  51. Greg says:

    its great that you guys are finally working on adding a/v capabilities to msn. It’s good to know that you have programers being paid to work on this.

    However, I want to point out that there is a group of programmers in Public school, with the leader in a Grammar School that have written an alternative that runs your version into the dust.

    So tell me how kids in Grammar School have written an IM program that has nudges, Video Support, avatars, etc., where your programmers have failed?

    I’m sorry, but amsn is a far better effort than what you guys have put out.

  52. graycat says:

    Well, I’m on a mac. I use MSN with my friends, almost all of them on PC. I’m exchanging webcam, animated emoticons, offline messages, snoozes, tabbed chats, voice messages – practically I can do everything with them but audio conference.

    On a Mac.

    On Leopard.

    With third-parts, open-source, freeware applications. Seamlessly interworking with my built-in iSight.

    MSN 6.0.3:mac is as well on my computer. I used it just once, then left it there untouched.

    Dear MacBU guys, I may understand your situation and your points, and the fact that working in a big company means also you have to prioritize your activity based on the company’s directives, not on your own’s.

    But the point is that I don’t need a Microsoft’s made MSN client to have almost all the same features as Windows users have. And if someone asks me what to use on a Mac for MSN, I’ll keep answering "Don’t even download the official Microsoft Mac client, go open source instead".

    So you can take all your time to do your job.

  53. deltatux says:

    @Ed. Where do you get your sources saying WLM 9.0 is for late 2008-early 2009? I would like to know. I haven’t dug up any credible sources saying that it’s planned for that timeframe. I hope that’s not the case.

  54. Biel says:

    MacManX, I know they said that "A couple of weeks ago we kicked off a closed beta program of Messenger for Mac 7.0 for CORPORATE customers…".. but they also said that for the for PERSONAL customers "we have to wait until Windows Live Messenger completes their transition to the new AV stack before we can deliver this on our end." And that’s my point. WLM9 already has a beta floating around the web.. so what are the MacBU waiting to start developing for personal clients?  Shouldn’t they do it together?? or at least collaborating with each other? If the AV stacks weren’t finished, they would not have a BETA out….

  55. mytwocents says:


    Seems pretty clear to me:


    “Life and development at Microsoft”, he spent the hour announcing a new Messenger API – “the Tech Preview will be released during MIX 08 and the Beta 1 will be released when WLMessenger 9 ships in late 08 or early 09”

  56. MacManX says:

    No updates until 2009?

    That is of course totally unacceptable. I would like to hear (or read, rather) what Anav has to say about this…

  57. john says:

    If  95% of your friends use messenger, then use mercury, it will integrate with msn messenger + you get audio and video. not perfect i grant you but better than nothing

    love and peace man


    *******Why use Messenger, John?

    Simply because 95% of your friends and work mates use it… most of them on Windows. They won’t switch to Yahoo! or AOL or any other app as nearly noone is using them! ***********

  58. deltatux says:

    @mytwocents … thnx for the info.

  59. michael bonello says:

    k i’m michael and i noticed that i can’t use webcam and i am pretty pissed off or mircophone my e-mail is bonello_777@hotmail.com contact me when a new verison is coming out

  60. MacManX says:

    John, I tried Mercury, but it was so buggy I had to give it up.

    Currently I’m using aMSN whenever I need video and it works quite well. 🙂

  61. Ed says:

    Would Someone from MacBU have some response? Regarding the Late 08 release date for WLM 9

  62. Mac Pro User says:

    Well kinda hard to figure out that young programmers on the web MADE MSN messengers with the same bells and whistles as WLM, but the creators of it can’t make one! (eg. aMSN) Plus they don’t have the anoying ads!

    I know the guys at MS are just doing what they are told… and they are probably very happy of what they have accomplished, BUT the bottom line is that MS wants to sell the Vista, and mac projects are just not that important to the Cash flow of that corp. Sorry guys, I LOVE MY MAC, and I am not going back to a cheap a** PC just so I can use some little features that only PC have. They are other alternatives to get what WE want as users AND we will get them. If there is a demand someone will make it just to spite MS.

    Basically guys at MS (talking to the big heads here) Just get you S*** together and just do it!

    I know BG want a monopoly but it wont happen!

    And the Mac Programmers at MS push you boss’s to get there noses out of BG A** and do products that users really want and not what they think they want.

    Thats my 2 cents worth!

  63. Santini says:

    MacManX, how do you get/send video with Mac MSN? Thanks…

  64. MacManX says:

    Santini, I’m using the aMSN client for webcam conversations.

  65. kofi says:

    Aite, Everyone whose commented on this blog n news is very right and i think Apple should listen and give credit to them cos i think u guys have taken the piss enough out of us for making working on msn messenger the last thing on your mind.

    Apart from all madness and all the questions i get when ppl ask me where my webcam button is i’m very happy that a new release is being done for us Mac users, who sepend like 1000 pounds n more to purchase your platform (u know, like double the price of a pc, which normally starts from 399 pounds and upwards) aint that a cheat? that we have to spend more n lose out on the best program to get in touch??

    anyway, nough bout all that.. al i want is that it’s released A.S.A.P  before i ditch my mac and find a windows 98 on ebay, which will even give me WLM when updated ^_^

    Thanks folks.

  66. Rachel says:

    I don’t need microsoft Messenger… I use the Mercury messenger in my MAC and I have good video.

  67. While it is a good thing that you posted an update to let people know what’s going on, you’re not telling anyone anything but excuses.

    The Microsoft Tax is apparently alive and well. And personally, I’ve given up on Microsoft delivering a product that clearly puts the consumer first. Based on what you said it appears that your team (like lots of others) put the corporate customer ahead of the general consumer. That’s why more and more people are switching to Mac or Linux. Mac and Linux don’t need to make that distinction between corporate customers and consumers.

    I don’t even use the Messenger for Mac application. I use Adium. Why? Because Adium has never disconnected me or quit unexpectedly. Why did I download and install Adium? Because Messenger for Mac DID. A LOT.

    You guys have a chance to release a truly great product. The problem is – you won’t. What do I base that on? Every other product Microsoft has ever released.

  68. All this tech talk is a poor show at what is ultimately neglect for the mac platform. If Skype can implement video messaging as well as ichat, etc. then why has Microsoft / MSN taken oh sorry, taking, so long?

    Office 2008? The last iteration was 5 years ago!! Pathetic. Absolutely pathetic.

    The rollout of MSN / Microsoft products for mac has been a joke and will further lead to increased Apple market share in software as well as hardware.

    Bitterly disappointing. I used to LOVE Entourage for mac, amazing program but now have shifted to MAIL…a real shame.

  69. Ian Bolton says:

    The leopard version of iChat is brilliant. It does plenty of interesting things and just works. We pay more money for our Macs because we get an all in one package, nice computer, great OS, useful packages etc etc. You pay £399 for a PC and what do you get…? You pay £799 for a state of the art iMac which is at the end of the day a computer that has everything you should ever need.

  70. Jas says:

    I’m sorry but I don’t understand why Microsoft has so much troubles to propose audio and video chat on their Windows Live Messenger. Look at Skype or even aMSN, they succeeded where you’re stucked for months. Audio and video is not so hard to build between a mac and a pc, the only barrier is the economic interest that Microsoft has in keeping a large advance on Apple with their Windows Live Messenger. But in long term, mac users will get bored of waiting and people will use another software.

  71. Jas says:

    Last thing while my last comment is being "moderated". If I dare to say to a client "Sorry, man, it has been so long that I should have finished your work, but well you know, I’m working hard on it!" I will go bankrupt. This is simply the worst excuse ever and you’re really making fools of us.

  72. MacManX says:

    Yes, Ian, but what’s the point of having an application like iChat when there’s noone to talk to? I don’t know about you guys in the UK but afaik not many outside the US is using AIM.

    The rest of us is on MSN… I’ve been on the net since ’94 and I’ve NEVER met anyone using AIM… ever – worldwide.

    Justin, the MacBU could have implemented video long ago, but chose not to because they would need to change the code completely since the A/V protocol is changing for the Windows platform.

    I just hope we won’t have to wait until 2009 to see A/V on the Mac client.

    I really hope that something is done before Office 2008 is released – shipping a brand new product with 6.0.3 which is unbelievably buggy just doesn’t cut it…

  73. Max says:

    I’ve been experiencing really slow transfer speeds when I send files to my friends, like 3kbps or lower. Receiving rates are just as slow. Anyone else also experiencing the same slow file transfers speeds?

    Any plans to improve the transfer speeds in the next installment, which i seriously hope will be much sooner…??

  74. MacManX says:

    Jas, the aMSN team is using the OLD audio/video stack. WLM9 and hopefully the upcoming Mac client will use a NEW technology. The reason it’s taking sp long is that they’re not on entirely in sync – development wise.

    Why the old A/V technology wasn’t implemented in previous Mac versions is anyone’s guess.

    Read Anav’s blog post and you’ll get the picture…

    This thread is brimming with comments and suggestions – I really hope someone from the MacBU will address these questions soon!!

  75. AndyK says:


    That’s true, and its certainly relevant to developers I’d expect.

    However, from a practical standpoint, it’s completely irrelevant. People are using aMSN, or other alternative, or switching to Skype for video like I did.

    Most of the people I chat to use Skype anyway. So if I need voice/video, I fire up Skype.

    Unfortunately, the MacBU has missed the boat here. I know there are reasons. Some technological. Some political. And some ("prioritising the corporate client") are pointless for those of us who use a Mac for home use (surely most of Mac users?). But from a user perspective, I know one thing…

    If I want to do a video chat with my brother before my niece turns 2, I’ll be putting Skype on their computer.

    Because video chat has one aspect that I think many software teams don’t always get. (As I had the same issue with waiting for Skype for Mac to catch up…)

    It can be time critical. "It’s coming when it’s coming" means precisely nothing when you really want to video chat with someone on the Other Platform.

    And unlike when waiting for Skype to play catchup, now there’s a solution that doesn’t require one or the other party buying a whole new computer.

    And this is what they’re going to have to fight against. The next Mac Messenger is going to have to be totally phenomenal, or no-one’ll care.

  76. Today, we’re living in a world where software is playing a big role in day-to-day life.

    As some companies have delivered fast software development for years, we all came custom to that and expect no other. But sometimes it takes time to analyse what have been made, find existing problems and fix these things. Sorry to say on a MSDN site, but where they rewrote a lot of code for leopard to perform better, they should also have done this for Windows Vista. I still have to meet a happy Vista user, but it’s even hard to find a normal Vista user because they all return to XP.

    With the announcement of a new Messenger (like if "Messenger" is patented by Microsoft) I am not happy. Don’t get me wrong, I want to chat with friends on the microsoft-platform. But I don’t like to "install" hundreds of applications because every brand has his own interpretation of how things should look and work.

    As OS X is the best commercial example of how extendable software works, it would be great to see that Microsoft wants to add to that. By writing the "add" word I am getting closer to the my best solution. An "Add-In" or a "Plug-In" for iChat should make our life much easier. We already know how to work with most of the excisting Apple app’s. The look and feel are well known and the level of integration is what we know, like and starts to demand.

    With an add-in for iChat the BU team doesn’t have to write a lot of code for the end-user screens, but can focus on the integration with the MSN protocol.

    I think and hope that most of the Apple users will be very happy to see MSN contact in their iChat software program, sync contact info to Adressbook and use that information in app’s like Pages. That is what Mac:Messenger 7 should be, for me.

    The world of programmers must make a swich to provide software as additional functionality to excisting applications. I know this is already done, but it must grown more!

  77. sherry says:


      im trying to get into windows live messenger,i had norton antivirus put on my computer and since that i cant talk to anyone on line,can you please help.

                    thank you.

  78. Steve says:

    You guys keep working and I find myself less and less Microsoft products and services. If Microsoft is serious about it’s live initiative it better move faster to support the thousands of users switching from windows to Mac like myself.

    I have already in the process of moving from Hotmail to Gmail and from Live Messenger to Gtalk.

    A/V features, offline messages, RTL messaging, give us all the goodies the Windows Messenger got and perhaps we will stay.

  79. Matias says:

    Is nice to hear this great stuff , hope you can finish it soon so we Mac Users can enjoy the power of MSN x)!!..

    Oh!.. what about nudges? or winks? or games? would be them in messenger 7?..

    Thanks , and we hope you make a great product.

  80. Blake says:

    Microsoft get off your ass and comitt to something for once.

  81. Scott says:

    Seems everyone forgets.  Until recently, Apple’s position on releasing Safari on other platforms was if you wanted Safari, buy a Mac.  Safari was considered an OS X flagship app.  With that in mind, what makes anyone think that Microsoft is even *interested* in making UB feature equivalent with WLM?  This is marketing in its most common form.  As a technician, I’ve seen this a lot in electronics, especially during the VCR days.  Matsushita, for example, made VCRs under several brand names for various companies in addition to their own Panasonic brand. They made the OEM (read: non-Panasonic) brands with sub-standard parts in key places so those brands would fail before their own.  I’m sure this translates very well into Microsoft’s plan.  "OK, we’ll port Messenger to Mac, but the current Windows version will always be better."

    Better wait for WLM10 before you start counting on A/V for Mac.

  82. Andy K says:

    I find it quite telling that AV is waiting on the corporate product. It suggests to me that the MacBU doesn’t know (or isn’t being allowed to decide) what it really is.

    Messenger, despite vocal signs from (home) users is being overlooked in favour of corporate functionality. Messenger 5’s only real changes voer 4 was corporate stuff that totally ignored everything missing from the Windows version.

    Then you get Office, primarily Entourage, where it seems like the highly vocal signs from (corporate) users are being totally ignored in favour of things that really don’t interact with Exchange – which is possibly the primary reason people would use Entourage,

    It’s a shame. The MacBU obviously has talent. And, being made up of Mac users, surely it has people who want the same functions that we do. Especially if they use Mac Office in-house to communicate with their Windows Office using colleagues.

    Oh, and in-list Icons and line-wrapping on the Personal Message, please. Personally I’d say they outrank AV on so many levels. That and tabs/drawers for multiple chats in a single window, please.

  83. James says:

    Why can’t you add features like winks and nudges mercury messenger has them so why cant you add them!!

  84. Andreas says:

    I use since a coupple of year the MSN Messanger and it is a great opportunity but I use also a MacBook Pro and a iMac and of the Mac we have a lot differences.

    I would appreciate it if you could discuss internaly a Beta testing with the upcoming version 7 because I mean that you lost a lot of customers right now because .Mac, AIM, Skype & Co. will pickup your customers and the churne rate is verry high at the moment because I get a lot of mails change the CHAT adress to…..

    A good alternative way is to add different features like Animoticons…. on the way to version 7.

    Kind regards


  85. MacManX says:

    Andreas, I’m not sure what you’re trying to say, but custom and animated emoticons already work in version 6 of the Messenger for Mac.

  86. photek says:

    AV in Mac Messenger will be like Vista….

    a dismal, delayed, buggy copy of something you have seen before, lacking in features and incompatible with everything you want it to work with!

    and whilst MS are wasting time everyone will have lost interest and switched…!

    MSN Video Chat ?….. use Skype

    Zune Music Player ?….. use iPods

    MS Office ?…….. use OpenOfficeAqua

    Vista OS ?…….. use OSX

    Don’t get me wrong…. MBU produce some GREAT apps… but for a company with so much money you think they would be….. well….. better.

  87. dennis says:

    I understand the AV feature cannot be realized at this moment, but i’d like to see a new release providing offline messages, winks..etc, that already included in Windows release.

    And i find that there are some delivery issues among Mac release, i often miss the msgs left by my friends when i’m running Messenger for Mac, and abt days after, when i login to windows release, there is the msg showing on my screen! So, i really think that would be a must to release a transition build that fixing up known issues.

  88. Drew says:

    Can’t wait for msn 7.0 to come out for mac. When in Jan will it be available?

  89. MacManX says:

    Drew, if you read between the lines in the blog above that would be January 2009 I’m afraid.

    I just wish it would be released with Office 2008 – but that won’t happen.

  90. Joan says:

    Please, please please release video chat.  My whole family is on Windows Messenger seeing each other, and I can only text chat.  

  91. Jack says:

    Thats all good but what about support for other items such as nudges, handwriting tool, winks and other features currently available for live users on windows?

  92. John says:

    Well, I’m glad to see Messenger is not dead.  I’ve been using Adium for the past several years, as it is better than most other chat programs and can login to multiple clients.  But it doesn’t have video and probably never will.  When Messenger gets video, I may switch to that for awhile to test it out, but I’m fairly certain I’ll probably switch back to Adium eventually.  Most people I know on Winblows use YahooIM.

    If Adium ever implements video chat, all other mac clients will die.  Opening four different chat clients to talk to all my friends would be too annoying.

  93. Guto says:

    I really don’t care about A/V. Nudges, voiceclips, winks and games are sufficient.

    Will you ever offer Portuguese language support? There are "just" 230 million speakers in the world.

  94. Dan says:

    After seeing great UI enhancements in Office ’08, it’s somewhat dissapointing to see Messenger doesn’t seem to be going the same way if the Macworld screens are true.

    Drawers? A huuuuge Aqua button to send a message, what’s with that?  Why should a conversation window and contact list take so many pixels up?

    A/V imrovements are welcome however, hopefully the UI is improved before release.

  95. Nicolaj says:

    Forget about A/V.

    Just get the simple things right first:

    What about nicknames for your contacts?

    Why on eart hasnt messenger included this feature? It’s so so simple, and yet really annoying its not there. I’m really tired of contacts named "Hey there", "dec07899", "tireddog" and so on. I want to be able to rename them, at least locally, to understandable/indetifiable names like "Peter", "Tim", "Judy" and so on. Come on, mac BU. How hard can it be???

  96. art says:

    Does anybody believe this will happen before the end of the year?

    I am really encouraged by the message, yeah… but it’s just a long way off…

  97. Cath says:

    I think its just a bit stupid that I cannot have webcam chats with my friends even though my MacBook has a built in webcam…you would think it would have the facilities to chat on messenger

  98. Tristan says:

    I hate Microsoft, lets get the over first.

    Get on with it ,

    All i have to say


    Thank you

    Get A Mac

  99. Natasha says:

    Just wondering when the new msn for mac will be available for people that use it for personal use. Is a date set yet? Thanks.

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