Messenger: haves and hA/Ve nots


By now, some of you have heard the news.  Today we launched Messenger for Mac 6.0, our first Universal application!  It includes some exciting things, like federation with Yahoo, the ability to show “what I’m listening to” on my iTunes and a spell checker (yea!) as well as features that have been long standing requests like support for animated and custom emoticons.  However, I know a number of you are bound to ask: “Where is A/V in Messenger for Mac!?!”


I said in my first blog entry that I’d try to shed light on how feature decisions get made, give you some examples, and address why A/V isn’t in this release.


The short version:  we are working on it.


Right now, Windows Live Messenger (WLM) and Live Communications Server (LCS), are not quite in sync on their audio and video technologies. But, they are on a path to join up and move to a shared protocol in upcoming releases.  Rather than write two sets of code only to have to throw one away in the coming months, we’re writing that common protocol for the Mac, and as we all converge we’ll have A/V in Messenger for Mac*.


For those of you who want to know more about the background of the quest for Messenger A/V, read on.


 As we do our product planning, there are a bunch of sometimes conflicting things that we need to consider.  Things like:



  • The mission of the MacBU – how does the proposed work support our mission of creating the most compatible productivity software for our customers

  • Microsoft corporate strategies and where and how we support them

  • Customer research that gives us data to helps us prioritize where we focus

  • The technology situation – what opportunities and limitations do we face in trying to do particular types of features

Here are two quick examples of how these have applied to Messenger for Mac. Then we’ll get on to the A/V specifics.


Supporting the MacBU mission – great productivity software


One example is the work we did to have your Messenger buddies in the track changes balloons in Word if they’re logged in to Messenger.  It’s easier (aka you can be more productive) to be able to click on the icon and start a chat so that you can clarify the changes or input someone made on your document rather than having to send an email and wait for a response, or put your own comments in and send it for review and wait for an answer, or worse yet, make changes in the document only to find out when you re-send it for review that you completely misunderstood the feedback. (Admit it – we’ve all done that at least a time or two!)


Supporting Microsoft strategies


The work we did to support LCS is another example.  More and more companies are concerned about how work information gets sent via IM. Their concerns could be about security during file transfer, or the desire to be able to centrally log and audit what’s being sent. Some just want one easy way to manage both internal and external IM-ing in one application, which LCS provides.  For their Mac users, having Messenger provide LCS functionality makes it easy for them to address these concerns.


Getting down to A/V


When it comes to adding A/V to Messenger, the biggest hurdle we face is technology integration.  Working against us are the facts that WLM and LCS aren’t completely synced on the audio and video technologies in their RTC stacks (the protocols for audio and video transmission), the fact that we have to do significant work to the RTC stacks in order to have them work on the Mac OS, and the reality that the time it would take to write two versions of the stacks makes it nearly impossible to keep up with the WLM and LCS release cycles.  It’s a bit like trying to create a new cell phone that uses analog technology knowing that by the time you’re ready, the service provides will be switching to digital networks. It doesn’t make a lot of sense. (OK, I haven’t hit on the perfect analogy, but you get the idea.)


The good news is that since WLM and LCS are now on track to sync up their protocols,  we think we have enough time before they get there to write it for the Mac OS.  The upside to not trying to shoehorn A/V into 6.0 is that we could get some really good features, like Yahoo federation, spelling, our first universal binary, and custom and animated emoticon support.  And at the same time, we don’t spend a year or more writing protocols that we have to rip out and re-write.  Of course there are always trade-offs, which in this case include releasing Messenger 6.0 without A/V support, and the possibility that when we do get to A/V, we may see it on the LCS side slightly before we see it on the WLM side. (I know, I know, some of you don’t like that order.  Hopefully all three team’s schedules will align at the same time but that isn’t a certainty.)


But there is light at the end of the tunnel.  Our dev team has made good progress on the audio and video protocol work already, and at this point we feel confident that we’ll be able to stay in sync with the LCS and WLM transitions. And then, yes then, we’ll happily announce a version of Messenger for Mac, with A/V support!


*The mouse type I have to include since we’re talking about features that haven’t shipped yet: 


Features and timing are a MacBU estimation based on information provided by other Microsoft teams. This information relates to pre-release software product, which may be substantially modified before its first commercial release. Accordingly, the information may not accurately describe or reflect the software product or timing when first commercially released. This post is provided for informational purposes only, and Microsoft makes no warranties, express or implied, with respect to this post or the information contained in it. And there you have it.



 

Comments (91)

  1. Marcos Detry says:

    thank you for the explanation. It makes waiting so much pleasent!

  2. dc says:

    The explanation would be a lot more believable if Messenger for Mac hadn’t been lacking AV chats for the last four years (I believe that’s how long Messenger for PC has supported AV–might be only 3). And every release, everyone who uses Messenger says "AV chat yet? Oh, no, of course not." (And then they go back to using Adium, or some other chat program that doesn’t need 60% of your screen real-estate for a buddy list and a single chat.) Sorry for the slightly unkind words.

  3. Jesper says:

    The explanation makes perfect sense, and I’m happy to have Messenger as a Universal app with support for custom smileys (no, I’m not gonna use the "e"-word).

    One thing is confounding me, however, and that is the continued distribution of separate language versions in different downloads. As a developer that’s also involved in providing some localization services I’m constantly changing between English and Swedish – back and forth all week long. Shipping separate language versions completely destroys the usefulness of being able to drag a language in a list and have it take effect on all apps the next time they’re started.

    I have faith in the Mac BU to do the Mac thing in these decisions, but I’ve been constantly disappointed on a very basic feature – below the bar when you have localization all worked out already – that seems so easy. What’s eatin’ ya, team? Why can’t we do this?

    (Yes, I also appreciate that the files are heavy and that people don’t want to move more MBs over the network than they like, but that’s no reason to not also offer a multilingual version.)

  4. don williams says:

    Interesting that big’old Microst can’t include A/V with Messenger when Mercury Messenger, a MSN replacemant offers it.

    I tried it with my friend in Taiwan and it worked great.

    What gives, that’s what I want to know?

  5. Chris says:

    Guys & Gals of the Mac BU,

    Thank you so much! Messenger is so much snappier now, and I’ve missed the iTunes now playing thing since I moved to the Mac platform.

    I have one small suggestion, but its not really essential. On Windows the song information is displayed in the contact list and in the conversation window, in v 6 of the OS X version, I can only see it in the contact list. It would be awesome to have it in the conversation window too, or at least an option.

    Other than that, fabulous. Thanks for sorting Messenger and our IM addiction 😉 !

    Chris.

  6. Rosyna says:

    I’ve noticed this on most of the Mactopia pages, but if you click on the link at the bottom of the Mac Messanger page that says "Looking for the Windows version of Microsoft Messenger?" and click on the link, it just opens a new window with the Mac messanger page. It doesn’t actually go to the windows Live Messanger page dealie.

  7. Gonzie says:

    ok just installed version 6, and i have to say good work. thanks for the spellcheck and the proper keyboard controls (apple + left start of line etc) iTunes support (along with own custom message when no song is playing, good thinking) and custom smilies. here’s a few suggestions/niggles i have for you

    1: needs an applications alias in the volume mount with a nice little graphic showing you how to install it.

    2: why have the dock process restart when messenger first run/install when the use deselects keep icon in dock

    3: takes a long time for the upgrade of the conversation history, i know i should delete some of it now and again but still

    4: feels a little slugish (i’m on a 2Ghz G5 iMac with 1GB of ram) in use, very slugish while using anything else while in the background

    5: can we have an option to choose what is said or how much is said in the "To:" bar of a chat window a chat window (think how mail.app displays data in the columns of the main window) i know quite a few people with rather large names and then you have to have the their email address after that, just takes up rather a lot or space

    http://residentfury.spymac.com/screenshot5.jpeg

    6: do we have to have the full name repeated again just because of his status? with point 5 that takes a huge amount of space. "this user my not respond because their status is set to away" would be great in the example below

    http://residentfury.spymac.com/screenshot6.jpeg

    7: why does having the preferences open disable use of the program? i know plenty of programs that can do both at the same time

    8: no voice clips still? is that going with the a/v for later?

    9: where is the ichat/aol/aim support? nothing about it in the documentation

    10: where is the documentation?

    11: file sending needs improving, it’s not very quick, and can’t we have the speed it’s sending at and how much has been sent/recieved in figures as text (option in preferances of course). "transfer time is (insert time here) minutes with a 28.8 modem rather outdated, i don’t know anyone that still uses one of those, mac’s come with a 56k modem either installed or as an optional add on these days

    12: can we have the changing dock icon coordinated with your presence status back like in messenger 4 (?)

    13: branding, windows live? microsoft messenger? which is it? just microsoft messenger please

  8. Peeks says:

    Hey do you MS Mac people find it funny that 3rd party applications are more advanced than your version?

    If that was me I’d be embarrased.

  9. Bob says:

    ok now get on with a universal remote desktop client 🙂

  10. revs says:

    Thanks. Nice to know it is actually being worked on. Just dont give us any excuses with version 7 🙂

  11. Elliot says:

    And here we see the problem with proprietary communication networks…  All my friends are on MSN chat, so I have to use it, but then I’ve got to wait for a hulking dinosaur of a company to move 3 development teams through the motions to get a decent software upgrade.  I’ve got no problem with Microsoft making a chat app, that’s fine.  The problem is when companies use (relatively) closed standards for the infrastructure, forcing me to use your app or suffer a loss of features.

  12. Ross says:

    Thanks you. Just acknowledgement of the A/V thing, and mention that you are working on it made my week – thanks guys 🙂

  13. AndyW says:

    One thing i think would be nice, is if MSN Messenger 6 didn’t have the brused metal interface. Any chance you could loose this and go with the unified look?

  14. Are you folks using the Distributed Notifications built into iTunes, or polling?

    With GrowlTunes we listen for track changes via Distributed Notifications built into iTunes 4.7+, and for 4.6 and below you have to use polling to do the dirty work.

    Take a look here (it’s modified BSD if you’re curious): http://trac.growl.info/browser/tags/growl-0.7.4/Extras/GrowlTunes

    Specifically take a look at this method: http://trac.growl.info/browser/tags/growl-0.7.4/Extras/GrowlTunes/GrowlTunesController.m#L112

    If you’re using polling full time on it, hope this helps. 🙂

  15. nadyne says:

    Rosyna – Our webpage is directing you to the right page.  However, the Windows Live Messenger site is detecting that you’re on a Mac, so they’re redirecting you back to the Mac page.  They’re doing it in the hopes of avoiding people downloading the incorrect version.  I’ll ask our web people if we should consider removing our link if the WLM guys don’t want to change their site.

  16. Jeremy says:

    You cant expect mac users to take microsoft seriously when they release handicapped software like this.  Mercury, Yahoo & Skype all offer A/V.  come on your biggest software company in the world

  17. Mary Starman says:

    Gonzie – great ideas and suggestions. For iChat/AIM federation, that is currently only available via the Live Communications Server.  If/when the Windows Live team does federation with AOL we’ll be able to pick that up on the "personal" side. Federation agreements aren’t done by our team, but we do pick up the feature when the other teams make the agreements.

    Video clips would come when we get the A/V infrastructure in.

    And branding:  We’re "just" Messenger for Mac. We used to be branded "MSN Messenger for Mac" until we introduced the support for LCS – then it just didn’t make sense.  We put the Window Live Messenger icon in the UI so that it is clear to people whether they are in the "personal" or "corporate" part of our app, and to show which service your buddies are using.

    Bob – a universal RDC is in the works – we announced last month at WWDC that we’re reving that.  We saw some of the proposed UI and feature work today, and I think you’re going to like it!

  18. Nate says:

    Congratulations, Mary and the whole Mac Messenger team! As a corporate user I really appreciate the roadmap information that you are giving us in these posts.

  19. Phil says:

    Great to hear an explanation about the A/V thing and the new features are tempting me to give this version a good test run, but one thing stops me, the lack of a tabbed chat window.  I hate having lots of windows flying around, would be so much easier if the chat window was tabbed at the bottom (like adium).

    Unless anyone knows of a way to create a plugin, like Chax, to provide this!

  20. Viktor says:

    I really just need to know one thing: When will file transfers support direct connection? This is a feature I bet even more people would like to see than A/V chatting. Until then, there are better alternatives out there.

  21. Jeremy, Yahoo’s A/V is pretty much garbage, and if that’s the best Microsoft can do, then I’ve no idea why you’d want it.

  22. Asam Bashir says:

    Stick it back where it came from, it ain’t coming anywhere near my machine – I USE iChat 😛

  23. Johnny K says:

    It is certainly an improvement over v5.1.1. And the irony of people complaining so self-righteously over a piece of free software Microsoft provides for their COMPETITOR’s OS is rich. But still, I shall complain anyway.

    -I want the Unified interface. Brushed metal is so 5 minutes ago

    -I want those wacky little animations (no, not just the emoticons) that MSN for Windows has

    And really, if these Windows Live! logos everywhere don’t go away, I’ll just talk to MSN people from the Yahoo side of the interoperability fence. I’m not using Windows and I’m happier not being reminded that Windows exists. It’s like being reminded that George Bush is president.

    Overall, it’s a step in the right direction, as is talking to us through the Blog instaed of releasing a steaming mound of poo and then stonewalling us. But it’s too small a step.

  24. SteveP says:

    Even more frustrating that since there will be no support for the older protocols, there is no talking to people on older systems that will not be able to run the latest Windows version. <sigh>

  25. Julie says:

    Big thumbs up for the iTunes, custom emoticons and personal messages…

    But there are some serious GUI flaws:

    1- Is it REALLY necessary to have a gigantic send button?

    2- Brushed metal is really ugly

    3- Font size too big on the top bar (where nickname and personal messages are)

    4- The message windows are way too big! It’s kinda chubby. My 13" Macbook feels cluttered with only 2 chat windows opened, it takes most of my workspace. I think I’m switching back to adium…

    5- Tabbed windows anyone?

    6- The avatar tray is not really necessary, it could be integrated to the message window

  26. Graham McLuhan says:

    One other feature that I love in Mercury that lacks in your client is tab chatting! Please add that for us!

  27. Gordo says:

    Good to hear you guy’s are working on A/V support for mac users! aMSN and Mercury are really ugly and slow apllications. I only wish the Messenger contact window could have been a little bit compacter by centering my contacts to the far right

  28. Joel says:

    There is one, and only one feature that I’ve been hanging out for the last few months. That’s Sharing Folders. The one good thing they did in the Windows version of Messenger.

  29. tib51 says:

    Please, could you stop the developpment of messenger and just accept its integration right in iChat?????

    Obviously, you don’t succeed in making a good chat system on mac….

    Can you imagine that it’s 3 years since Apple propose a chat application with A/V AND with the possibility of a audio conversation between 10 people and a video conversation between 4 people!!!!! And all for free!!!!

    Apple announced a few years ago that they were ready to integrate MSN into iChat, which work perfectly and is splendid to use!

    Now almost ALL new macs have an iSight and you still propose a chat client without video??????

    So please, stop your work and just give Apple the possibility of including your protocol into their application.

    Thank you.

  30. Markus says:

    You are kidding, right? No A/V? Honestly, you have access to the original source code. Yet the biggest Mac software developer outside Apple is not able to integrate A/V while a few unpaid open source developers have no access to those sources and still manage it to add A/V support to their app.

    Once again you have proven that open source software is superior. WebKit (Safari) and Gecko (Camino, Firefox) made your IE look like poo. There is an Intel version of NeoOffice 2. NeoOffice can understand at least some degree of VBA while MS Office 12 won’t. NeoOffice can read and write OpenDocument formats. Mercury Messenger has A/V support – MS Messenger 6 not. Is there anything that Messenger 6 offers what Adium X doesn’t have for years? Where’s Jabber integration?

  31. aurora7795 says:

    Thanks for the explanation – I do look forward to A/V access but am glad to see MSN Messenger 6.0 all the same. Some nice changes have been made – great stuff.

  32. AnotherOne says:

    I can’t understand why you can’t make mac messenger an exact copy of windows messenger. And  please don’t tell: "technology situation". You can do it if you want. Today is possible to do same program for different OSes. You are in the same company and have access to the same technology, protocols, information…

  33. Matthew Traynor says:

    Thank you for that explanation. As much as I would love Messenger to have AV features, they really are more of a novelty than anything else – Messenger 6, as you said, focused on more important things such as being a Universal Binary. You’re all doing a really good job with Messenger, and although it may not be completely on-par with the Windows side, it’s good enough. Plus us Mac users aren’t subject to those awful ads that Windows users have to put up with; that alone is enough for me to be over the moon with Messenger.

    And by the way, congratulations on your first Universal application. As far as I can tell, there are no bugs or problems in v6, so well done.

  34. 0v1s says:

    Hi

    it’s nice that you released it finally! However, I have 2 issues with this version:

    1. I cannot login anymore. I can do it only from a windows client but not from mac messenger. There is no error message, just refuses to connect.

    2. How can I disabled the automatic spell checking? If one writes in a languages which is not supported, this is annyoing!

  35. Wow, what is the chance that my last two blog entries would be about the Mac client.&amp;nbsp;Install location…

  36. Rebecca says:

    This is in regard to Jesper’s comment on the localized language builds. Messenger has all the localized languages built into the application bundle. When you switch your OS language and relaunch Messenger the application will pick up on the changes for all supported languages. Our download page gives the impression that you have to download a different build, based on past user feedback that users couldn’t find their language! We’ll have to see what we can do to make this more clear to all our users. Thanks for the feedback.

  37. SpaDaRiO says:

    Another thing that Messenger misses is the avatar changing system used into Adium or Apple iChat, with the possibility to zoom a specific part of the image.

    It could be very useful…and I guess it’s open source.

  38. Messenger for Mac version 6 is out, and it’s Universal.

  39. Gonzie says:

    did people actually read this blog entry, the reason why version 6 doesn’t have a/v is because the system is going to change soon. and precisely why i hardly touched on it in my first post

    write the code once write it right. I’d sooner have an a/v system that took longer but actually works than some thing that was rushed and was going to change in the next revision

    have patience

  40. Tim says:

    Where is BUZZ?

    Where is Drawing?

    Where is voice clips?

    Other than that, thank God the releases have started again, good work so far.  Looking forward to future releases, don’t listen to the retards above.

  41. Rosyna says:

    It seems people just don’t have much faith in Microsoft making Mac software nowdays. They purchase cross platform software (iView, Expressions) make it Windows only. They drop support for Windows Media, Virtual PC, and VBA. In fact, it seems like the only thing Microsoft is working on are things that make the MacBU the division with the largest profit margin in all of Microsoft. But that is what happens when you only work on things that have a huge cost compared to the amount of work that goes into it. Well, that’s the definition of profit margin.

    Then again, brush metal is dead.

  42. Eric Bartels says:

    This is the most ridiculous explanation I have ever read. The big Microsoft can’t put A/V in Messenger for Mac. It is a blatant ly and everone knows it. The only reason why AV isn’t in Messenger for Mac is a pure strategic one: lets keep the chat community as long as possible to ourselves.

    This makes anyone sick.

  43. JD on EP says:

    MS Mac video: Mary Starman, of Microsoft’s Macintosh business unit, explains why audio and video are not available in the Mac client of Windows Live Messenger: &quot;When it comes to adding A/V to Messenger, the biggest hurdle we face is technology integration.

  44. Johnnie says:

    Why does it take 32 seconds for the "change display pictures" to open? 32 seconds is far too long.

  45. Kenny says:

    …why is it so hard for MSN to make a descent messenger client for mac… everyone else seems to be able to get it right (aMSN, Mercury Mess., Adium), yet all we get is excuses for this subpar client that microsoft throws our way every now and again. I’m not even asking for A/V, i would never be so bold, but is simple features like tabbed chatting or Growl support too much to ask?! I mean how hard is it to just take a look at a few of the other Mac clients that are already out there and get a few ideas. I mean the least they can do is copy a few ideas from the other clients seeing that they dont intend to ever put any real effort in producing a quality client for Mac. If all these other software apps are available, why then is it soooo hard for the all powerfull Microsft to get it right and give us something that is at least descent.  

  46. Ross says:

    …quit wasting your precious time trying to make a descent MSn messenger for Mac and just allow iChat to connect to MSN … the Mac users will love u for it.. TRUST ME! I’ve downloaded your latest version of messenger for Mac, and its obvious that u guys really not up to this challenge.. if u dont believe me, just go check out the latest version of Adium or Mercury messenger and see how they put you to shame..lol! the fact that you dont even have basic features such as tabbed chat or growl support shows how much effort went into this thing.. good grief!! Stick to Windows.. let Apple handle the mac side of this with MSN iChat integration, and save everyone alot of stress and misery… I’ll be signing back in on Adium in a sec!!

  47. Aram says:

    One strange thing about MS Messenger is that it does not work with MS’s own proxy server that requires authentification. When I select "HTTP proxy" (and I have to at work), I am not allowed to provide user name and password. Which is really pity.

    I have a workaround for that (having installed another proxy locally on my Mac), but that makes the whole construction pretty shacky and makes for messages not being delivered time to time and me being logged out due to lost connection.

    If MacBU team is supporting corporate customers (and Messenger supports LCS), then there should be a quality HTTP proxy support which is something most Mac users has to default in MS-only corporate environment.

  48. opensourcefan says:

    OK. Questions.

    What is federation with Yahoo? what does it mean to me? Is this some sort of breakdown in the Yahoo-Microsoft anti-Mac locked-2-step to deny up-to-date web services to non-PC-Windows users?

    What is Windows Live Messenger (WLM) and Live Communications Server (LCS) and why do I, a Mac user, care about it? It sounds like some kind of hideous PC security hole?

    Why should I give up my free open-source multi-client chat software in favor of your messenger client? what will it do for me that other clients won’t?

    Thanks.

  49. Irina says:

    I appreciate the explanation of why we don’t have A/V support in the new version of Messenger for Mac, however, I absolutely agree with all the posters that said that Microsoft should just allow Apple to make iChat capable of connecting to the MSN & Yahoo networks instead of attempting to make a Microsoft chat application for the Macintosh which is never quite as good as iChat or even Adium and Proteus. Please let Apple handle this as iChat is a great application and is going to be even better in the next release.

    Dropping development for Internet Explorer and Windows Media Player for the Macintosh were some of your smartest moves since those applications were not up to par with what was available from Apple. I know some users hated you for that because it showed a lack of commitment for the Mac OS, but after a while most realized that it was for the best as now they were able to use Flip4Mac to play Windows Media Player files in Apple’s Quicktime (which is so far beyond anything WMP could ever be).

    Right now the only applications from Microsoft for the Mac that you need to concentrate on is Office and Remote Desktop. Those are great applications and I only hope that Office 2007 for Mac will not lag so far behind it’s Windows counterpart on features. Right now MS Word 2003 has great diagrams and flow charts which are not available in Word 2004 for Mac.

    If you use your resources wisely I think you have the opportunity/ability to make great applications for the Macintosh that may show the users you are truly committed to the platform. Unless, you can make a chat application that is far superior to iChat in its features, ease of use, and integration with the Mac OS, it’s best you let Apple handle that market.

    Until then, I will be using iChat as my primary chat client and perhaps Adium when I need to talk to someone on MSN.

  50. nadyne says:

    Let’s try to answer some of these questions …

    Federation with Yahoo! Instant Messenger means that you can have Y!IM contacts in your Microsoft Messenger list, and vice versa.  

    Windows Live Messenger is the Windows version of Messenger.  They’ve changed around their naming scheme, so this doesn’t really impact you.

    Live Communications Server is a server that is used by many businesses for internal instant messaging, so that they don’t have to rely on an outside network.  If you’re not working for a business that uses this, you probably don’t directly care.  Enterprise Mac users who are in a mixed Windows/Mac environment really do care, though.  This means that they can use IM with their colleagues seamlessly.  If you really want to know the details about LCS, you can visit the following site:

    http://www.microsoft.com/office/livecomm/prodinfo/

    As to what you should use, well, that’s up to you.  🙂  We’re proud of what we’ve got out there.  We know that we don’t have all of the features that some users might like us to have, but we’re getting there, and v6 is an important step in the right direction.  

  51. Gabe says:

    i think it’s funny how it’s taking MS years and a lot of excuses to put out a nice messenger for the mac people. Think this way, Apple rewrote their entire system in less than a year.

    Now, i don’t understand how come the option of adding animated emotios is not avaliable. Why just normal ones? And what about being able to see the avaltar in the contact list?

  52. Kyho says:

    Thanks for the update.

    Is very appreciated.

  53. Mac Mojo says:

    So the big news from MacBU this week was the release of Messenger for

    Mac 6. This was an important release…

  54. opensourcefan says:

    Thanks for the answers on federation, Windows Live Messenger (WLM) and Live Communications Server. The original post didn’t make sense without the definitions.

  55. opensourcefan says:

    Oh, forgot something. Mac Mojo, maybe it’s in a later post that’s up on this blog now, but it sounds like the new version of Messenger doesn’t really add much over the other clients.

    I use a multi-chat client called Fire. It has emoticons, actually lets me transfer files (which YIM and Messenger don’t), let’s me use status messages, uses tabs, etc. It has a small footprint on resources. It’s updated often.

    Fire’s nice because I can have one app open and do YIM, AIM, MSN messenger, Jabber (i.e. Google talk), ICQ, IRC, and Rendezvous/Bonjour all at the same time. I think that convenience is hard for you (or Yahoo or Apple) to beat in a single app but iChat’s getting there.

    I have access to an old pc, and have used the PC version of messenger and find it’s UI extremely busy (and ugly!).

    The only thing I need from a chat client that Fire doesn’t do is A/V.

  56. David Palmer says:

    well another messenger and ?

    what the heck do we need spelling for ? you are having a laugh arnt you ?

    need something that uses piccys – perhaps 35mm microsoft or semaphore will re emerge ?

    spelluing is gud but you cannnot c me

    dave

  57. Tom Parker says:

    Loving the new 6.0 and i’ll been waiting for AV support cant wait!

  58. Skype for mac has A/V !

  59. yubi says:

    i was just wondering if MSN6 was unicode, like the MSN5.

    I just can’t seem to type in Japanese anymore…

    Is there a solution to this?

    Thanks

  60. Francis says:

    This is nonsense…Mercury messenger supports video, I use it and can have video with other MS Messenger users, this is just an example of MS poor regard for mac.

  61. mccm says:

    “I cannot login anymore. I can do it only from a windows client but not from mac messenger. There is no error message, just refuses to connect.”

    this also happns to me, any ideas??? and it’s just one email out of the 3 emails we try, BUT it is MINE please help.

  62. Jon says:

    “i think it’s funny how it’s taking MS years and a lot of excuses to put out a nice messenger for the mac people. Think this way, Apple rewrote their entire system in less than a year.”

    Are you talking about the Intel version of Mac OS X, which Apple revealed it had been running in the lab since 2000?

    I think that means it took them not a year…but half a decade.

  63. Messenger for Mac version 6 is out, and it’s Universal.

  64. Useless says:

    please, please…just allow iChat to take over MSN messenger project, i think that is the best solution, that way you can complete your back out of all useless apple software (IE, virtual PC) along with your msn messenger.  iChat rules…

    nice attempt though…but i’m sticking with my adium and ichat

  65. EcleKticO says:

    One thing….if you have problems with the a/v protocols betweeen WLM and LCS, why don’t you just release a WLM only client with A/V support and another release with WLM and LCS support but no A/V???

    Most of the people have Messenger for personal use…and if you consider that your market have both platforms (WLM & LCS) then we (the users) can have both apps…why dont give us the choice?

    and please, don’t tell me you can’t make to versions of Messenger!…your are going to release 4 versions of Vista!!!!

  66. David Chang says:

    I’d like to know if offline messenging for Mac Messenger is going to supported?  In the windows version we could shoot a messege over to the person even if he/she is offline, the person would be able to see the msg next time they get online.

    Mac version is lacking this function, this should be a small update i think.

  67. Rodrigo Rogerio says:

    why you guys don’t support videochat on Mac Messenger !!! this is a pain. It wouldn’t take to long to get it going ! just do it !!!

  68. hongbo says:

    How long shall we wait for the audio/vedio function for MSN Mac?

  69. KarynJ says:

    What is wrong with the brushed metal look?  I think it is beautiful – it’s a big part of what makes everything Mac look so sharp.  I wouldn’t want it to change – it wouldn’t match. I am very happy to hear about the A/V issue at least being worked on. I hope we won’t have to wait long. I am a fairly new Mac user and this has been the biggest drawback. Actually, I’d like to see ALL functions for Mac available – I had fun with nudges and drawing.  I also really miss the tabbed chatting. Ideally, putting MSN in iChat would be fantastic. I have never even used my iChat because everyone I know uses MSN on their PCs. It would be great not to let such a good program (from what I hear) go to waste. Thank you for the update.

  70. karen says:

    I hope you guys don’t take too long with the AV features on msn, I love IM specially on msn because of all the fun things it has to offer. I am fairly new to Mac so I really miss a lot of the features Window users have, it is so not fair that they get a lot more than we mac users do given that I think we should all be able to have the same features. Anyways, glad to hear you guys will soon come out with a AV msn messenger, by the way how long do you think we will have to wait?

  71. Johnny James says:

    Please please PLEASE could MacBU add a feature into MS Messenger for Mac whereby, when the user’s internet connection drops for whatever reason (such as unreliable wireless connection or random network problems) the last active account signs back in after a set period automatically. The Windows version does this no problem, while our version merely pops up an annoying box. This is probably my NUMBER 1 feature request for the program currently.

  72. Ed says:

    what about nudge?

    I mean Mac dont even have basic options for grouping conversation within the same minutes.

    Emoticons dont appear in your typing window

    No Drawing and no Voice Clip ( All not part of LCS ? )

  73. Mac Mojo says:

    Hi, my name is Anav and I work on the Messenger for Mac product in Mac BU. I follow the blog and newsgroup

  74. Hi, my name is Anav and I work on the Messenger for Mac product in Mac BU. I follow the blog and newsgroup