February Chat with the Internet Explorer team on Thursday


Join members of the Internet Explorer team for an Expert Zone chat this Thursday, February 19th at 10.00 PST/18.00 UTC. These chats are a great opportunity to have your questions answered by members of the IE product team. Thank you to all who have attended our previous chats! 

If you can’t join us live, the transcript for all chats are available here.  Other upcoming Expert Zone chat dates can be found here

Sharon Cohen
Program Manager

Comments (35)

  1. William J. Edney says:

    Sharon -

    Thanks for pointing out the chat time & date.

    It’d be great to get the transcript from January’s chat put into the archive :-).

    Thanks!

    Cheers,

    - Bill

  2. Richard Fink says:

    What is the difference between an Alpha, a Beta, and a Release Candidate and in what way does RC1 qualify to be called a Release Candidate?

    Would love an answer to that.

    Beta2 was supposedly feature-complete but new features cropped up in RC1.

    My BS alarm is going off – detecting Orwellian newspeak emanating from somewhere nearby.

    I’m feeling a taxonomical shift; a terminological slide; a sense of designations moved dizzyingly through sleight of hand like a game of Three-Card Monte.

    Where’s the Ace now?

    Beta1 was an Alpha, Beta 2 was Beta 1, and RC1 is Beta2. IMHO.

    See ya at the chat and happy President’s Day!

  3. DT says:

    > What is the difference between an Alpha, a

    > Beta, and a Release Candidate

    I’m not entirely certain that this holds for IE, but it’s an interesting read anyway:

    http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/2008.03.windowsconfidential.aspx

  4. sonicdoommario says:

    Hey IE team: How come the transcript from January hasn’t been posted yet? I’ve been looking forward to see it.

  5. Konstantin says:

    I wonder, will Internet Explorer team fix problem with View Source in version 8 or do I wait till version 9?

    View Source in IE6 only worked if page did not have HTML errors. Well, as a web developer I do not need to see source unless I have errors on a page. There were fixes in the internet (like add something to registry, do something with notepad, etc), but they did not really help.

    So I was forced to use Opera or Firefox to fix my web pages.

    I was eager to get IE7. Unfortunately, IE7 had the same problems. I know, I need to download and try IE8, but i’m AFRAID to – I realy afraid to loose trust in Microsoft IE team abilities.

    Did I try to notify Microsoft? Yes, multile times. Sometimes Microsoft web site told me that bug reporting on Internet Explorer is temporaly suspended, sometimes – that I have to be a part of Internet Explorer testing team to report bugs (may be I must be a part of that team just to use it?). So I posted similar message in IE forums and blogs like this one (mostly, 2-3 years ago) – nobody cares. I did not do much of web programming for a few years, but Yesterday I did, and I’ve got the same View Source problem again in my IE7 with all the patches.

  6. Dan says:

    Konstantin: I’ve NEVER see the problem you’re talking about (in IE6 or IE7 or IE8).  How about you post an example page that demonstrates the problem?  

  7. Richard Fink says:

    @DT

    As I suspected, Watson. It’s a game of expectations.

    thanks for the link

  8. vasko_dinkov says:

    I have one question for you guys:

    Would you consider the possibility to release at least one more major bug-fixing build (RC2?) before the final release because I get the impression that Trident is still very buggy in RC1?

    I believe it’s much more important to release a (as much as possible) bug-free final build and finally get the credits you really deserve from the development community rather than releasing another major IE version that features plenty of annoying bugs and seed more IE frustration.

  9. boen_robot says:

    @vasko_dinkov (and everyone else who, like me, wants to see RC2), vote here:

    https://connect.microsoft.com/IE/feedback/ViewFeedback.aspx?FeedbackID=415158

    And to the MSIE team, please, fix the reported bugs on RC1, and release RC2 before releasing RTM. We web developers would really want this release to be as bug free as possible. It’s already a great leap forward that we appreciate (some less than others, but still), but if new bugs creep out (or worse – a lot of regressions are left out as is), it won’t be remembered as "the first release passing Acid2", but rather as "the release that introduced many new things, including new bugs". Releasing RC2 before RTM would mean that you’ll get some additional "wild" testing after the RC1 bugs are fixed + a verification that they are indeed fixed. Hopefully, no additional bugs and regressions would appear between RC2 and RTM, and if they do, you’ll at least have some time to fix those too. We’ve waited long enough for CSS 2.1 support – don’t let it go unnoticed or under appreciated because of the bugs.

    Like Richard Fink, I too feel that each IE8 release so far has been one release behind what was announced (Beta1 => Alpha, Beta2 => Beta1, RC1 => Beta2). Don’t let RTM be RC1.

  10. Bob says:

    You think Microsoft is going to change the shipdate for a product with hundreds of millions of users simply based on the votes of a few webdevs?  Not likely.

    If they did an RC2, you’d be back here in a few weeks begging for an RC3.

    Test on RC1 now, and file every bug you find!

  11. ivan says:

    @Bob – we did test on RC1 and we found it very buggy.  Supposedly things are fixed, but we have no idea.  We filed tons of bugs, and they’re all marked "Active", with no indication if they are fixed internally or even read or addressed by Microsoft.

    As far as we’re concerned, IE8 RC1 is not ready, and since so many of the bugs in IE8 RC1 make full testing very difficult (oh so many alignment issues) we respectfully ask that a real "Release Candidate" be sent out so that we can Test it, and modify our code if required to handle the "fixes" in IE8.

    If IE8 goes RTM without another realistic RC I suspect most developers will simply have to force an IE7 rendering mode – and the Web will no longer advance because IE can’t keep up.

  12. jonas says:

    @bob – "You think Microsoft is going to change the shipdate for a product…" – What are you on? MSFT has not stated a shipdate yet.  They indicated that in "Early Q1" an RC would be released (and it was), and that "after that" the final version would be released.

    They never said there would only be 1 RC, or that the RTM would be out within 2 weeks of RC1.

    If IE8 RC1 isn’t up to par (it isn’t), then RC2 is the next logical move. (2,3,4,5 RC’s is perfectly fine!)  Only after an RC is deemed to be "ready to ship", should the thoughts of RTM even come to mind.

    This is the way REAL software works. I don’t care if IE8 doesn’t make it out until November, I want a solid release – not the buggy thing we have now.

  13. boen_robot says:

    I forgot to metion one more thing in my previous post, but it’s worth to mention non the less… jonas pretty much said it:

    RC2 doesn’t have to come soon (I too don’t care if IE8 comes out at Q4 or heck, even later). Take your time. Just say that there will be RC2 at SOME point, and when it does come out, make sure it fixes all (or at least most) reported regressions and new rendering/scripting/whatever engine bugs at Connect. Developers will make extensive testing and verifications either way.

  14. Allison [MSFT] says:

    @sonicdoommario

    Unfortunately we had technical difficulties at the end of the January Chat which caused the transcript to be lost.

  15. Olivier says:

    @Konstantin : I don’t understand what you are saying… I’ve always been able to see source code with IE (4, 5, 5.5, 6, 7 and 8), even if the page is full of error.

    And what are those registry tricks you are mentioning ? I’ve never heard of such problems.

    Are your IEs configured to edit source code with Notepad ? or another editor ?

  16. steve_web says:

    @Allison – If the January IE Chat was truly "lost", let me know – I have a copy of it (un-moderated of course)

    ;-)

  17. Allison [MSFT] says:

    @steve_web – Great! Please send the copy of the transcript to ieso@microsoft.com.  Thanks Steve!

  18. Konstantin says:

    Dan and boen_robot,  

    >>Konstantin: I’ve NEVER see the problem you’re talking about (in IE6 or IE7 or IE8).  How about you post an example page that demonstrates the problem?  

    Please take a look. I would HIGLY appreciate if Microsoft IE Explorer team will take a look too.

    I can see it in IE7 on XP and Vista (just tested on my PC and laptop)

    Start IE7

    Go to

    http://espros.overtrace.com/7.php

    right click on CLICK HERE, open in the new window

    in that window (8.php) right click on CLICK HERE and open in the new window.

    Now you have 3 pages on your screen

    7.php, 8.php, 7.php

    In the first window (the one you opened first) right click and choose "View Source"

    On my PCs nothing happen (notepad does not start, and I cannot view source).

    There are much more similar problems I have, but they are not stable (meaning, sometoimes they let me view source, sometimes not.) Most of them happen when there are errors in HTML code.

    This one is stable. Enjoy!

  19. EricLaw [MSFT] says:

    @Konstantin: I’m not able to reproduce the View Source problem you’re describing.

  20. Konstantin says:

    Weird. I tried on my daugher’s PC – it’s Win2000 & IE6 – same problem.

    I open these 3 windows, in 2nd and 3rd one I can see source, in the first one I cannot.

    So far I have tried 3 PCs – XP, Vista and 2000 – with the same result. I’ll try at work tomorrow – I have 2 PCs and laptop, all with WinXP.

    Let me repeat, I CAN SEE PROBLEM ON ALL 3 computers I have!

  21. Michael Ens [MSFT] says:

    @Konstantin:

    Could you link the website or tell us what file you are navigating to that causes this problem?

    I suspect (like Olivier suggested) that you have set a different editor from the default, which itself has difficulty with malformed content.

    The default source viewer in IE8 is a new custom viewer, but you can set it to notepad or something else using the Developer Tools.  The default source viewer in IE7 and before was notepad, and could also be customized.

    To change Source Viewers in IE8:

    1.  Hit F12

    2.  In the Developer Tools menu:

    File->Customize Internet Explorer View Source->[Default, or Notepad, or Other…]

  22. KS says:

    Konstantin: there are no general problems with viewing source in IE6, 7 or 8. And I don’t have problems with your example. Are you sure that you haven’t simply run out of GDI ressources? If the problem happens persistently on more than one PC then the most obvious reason is some common software you have installed on all of them.

    I *do* know of one page of my own that won’t open the view source editor. I didn’t test it with IE8 yet. Thanks for reminding, I will do now. But that’s really the only page I ever encountered that created this problem.

  23. Olivier says:

    @Konstantin : I’ve just tried with IE7 installed on a Windows XP SP3 and I can view the source without any problem.

  24. Olivier says:

    @Konstantin : I’ve now tried on IE8 RC1 (win XP SP3), and also IE8 on Windows 7 (build 7000) and I still can’t reproduce your problem.

  25. Konstantin says:

    I’ve tried two more computers.

    I CAN view source with laptop – no problem (IE 7 on XP) but cannot see it from desktop (IE 6, XP)

    So, my statistics so far:

    WinXP IE7 – PROBLEM

    Vista IE7 – PROBLEM

    2000 IE6 – PROBLEM

    WinXP IE7 – Ok

    WinXP IE6 – PROBLEM

    again – problem happen only for the first window, in the second and the third, view source works fine.

    No, I do not change viewer – I use notepad. And it works for all windows except for this one. I mean, it is not configuration problem, it is BUG IN IE.

    I’m very surprized only few people are aware of the problem with View Source. When I made living doing web programming, I saw some kind of View Source problem at least once a day (well, I did library programming and saw lots of HTML syntax errors and debug info in random places)

    I will try to find some other stable example of the problem tonight.

  26. steve_web says:

    just an update for @sonicdoommario, the raw chat transcript was found and delivered to Allison – so hopefully it will be available to you/everyone soon.

  27. Konstantin says:

    Let me clarify the end of my last message – I mean, I saw the View Source problem very often when I was working on server-side libraries, where HTML code and client-side JavaScript was often messed up and some debuggind or error messages was printed in the random places of HTML document, or there was an error in the middle of a document, and error message and no closing tags.

  28. Olivier says:

    @Konstantin : I’ve just tested gain on another computer with XP SP3 IE7 and I still can’t reproduce your problem.

    I code websites in PHP or Java and I had a lot of invalid html but I’ve never seen anything like that.

    I’ve no idea if it can be related to your problem, but which language is your OS ?

    I’ve tested on English and French versions (and also one XP with MUI).

  29. Konstantin says:

    Oliver,

    That could be the answer! All PCs where I can see the problem have Russian locale installed. I do not have it installed on one laptop at work, and I do not see the problem there! Now I’m getting a clue why I see it all over the place, but nobody else can see it!

    Thank you very much!

    I hope, Internet Explorer team read this blog, install Russian locale on their test PC, and open pages I mentioned above. I hope, they will be able to reproduce the problem and fix it.

  30. EricLaw [MSFT] says:

    @Konstantin: Thanks for the additional info!  Does your login username contain any non-ASCII characters?

  31. Matthias Walther says:

    There is one annoying bug that is still present in RC1:

    When you drop down the favorites from the menu bar and you click "Sort by name" on any folder in your favorites, the favorites menu disappears and you have pull it down again to continue. In IE7, the sorting was done but you were not thrown out the favorites. I’d love to see this fixed in the final version.

    Regards, Matthias

  32. Radeldudel says:

    I think InPrivate browsing is great, but I’d love to be able to change the internet security settings for InPrivate sessions without affecting my normal browsing experience.

    For example I’d like to disable addons, gif animations, scripts and other active content for InPrivate browsing, is this possible?

  33. steve_web says:

    Is there some technical issue with the chat today? We’re all logged in, but there is no action yet (10min in)

  34. EricLaw [MSFT] says:

    Radeldudel: Starting IE InPrivate with Addons disabled (-private -extoff) gets you part of the way there, but not fully there.  

    You could temporarily slide the zone slider on the Internet Zone up to HIGH if you want to disable more content in the browsing session.  Of course, disabling script will cause many websites not to work.

  35. steve_web says:

    From Chris Wilson’s Twitter…

    "IE team expect zone chat cancelled for today – chat tool broken. :( Will reschedule."