Happy New Year!

Two champagne glasses toasting.

The IE Team

Comments (84)

  1. Daniel says:

    Happy new Year (still 5,5h for me) 🙂

  2. Stefan says:

    Happy new year! I’ll hope you do a great IE8 release in the following year ;)!

    Still, ~5:19 h for me 😛

  3. Esben says:

    Happy New Year to all your guys. Looking forward to IE8 🙂

  4. anas says:

    Happy new year! I’ll hope you do a great IE8 release in the following year

  5. Brian LePore says:

    You know… it’s a sad state that I saw the headline and thought "oh no, they didn’t release IE8 to the world today with the new year, did they?"

    Jumping the gun much on my part? :-p Happy new year all!

  6. Espen Liland says:

    Happy new year! And may it be the year web developers stopped hating IE 🙂

  7. William says:

    Thanks, and to you guys too! IE8 is shaping up nicely, and i look forward to exciting things to come! Keep in there – loads of us still use IE!

  8. JAB Creations says:

    Keep up the good work! Hope you all have a happy new year and an enjoyable and productive 2009.

  9. VPC says:


    "This VPC image will expire in April, 2009."

    Looks like IE8 Final will be released in April, just in time for Windows 7 RC or Final.

  10. marty says:

    Happy New year! here’s to hoping that the IE team can fix up the last critical and major bugs in IE so that they can ship in Q1 of 2009.

    Its still a long way from a strong release (PR1v2) but it is getting much better.

    While we’re at it, can we learn some Web skills when posting on the blog?

    The image above is:


    a 788px x 1040px picture, scaled in HTML!!!!! to a height of 550px (ALMOST 50% SMALLER!)

    Which means that the image is actually 300% BIGGGER than it needs to be… a 389KB image!

    Since it isn’t a photo, scale it to the size you want to publish, then save it as a PNG or even a GIF, then save it, and upload it for use on the site.

    If you can’t get the image to 39KB, (10x less) you are not even trying.

    – – – – – –

    When you can publish content on the web, on this blog – you are "supposed" to be the "experts" in web browsers yet the IE Team fails over and over at the very basics of web development.

    Its high time the IE Team lead by example, not by showcasing the "how not to do things" way.


  11. JB says:

    post a decent IE you lazy peeps!

  12. LiveMirrorr says:

    Happy new year!

    Wish you all the best and joy and wonderful things to become true this year!

    It’s 2009!

  13. billybob says:

    Happy new year!

    What is the new years resolution for the IE team?

  14. Richard Fink says:

    A happy, healthy, and bug-free year to all.

  15. EricLaw [MSFT] says:

    @Marty: Happy new years to you.

    @VPC: The vpc images have expired on a rolling basis since we started releasing them.  It would be a mistake to try to infer anything about IE8’s release date from them.

  16. Someone who wants to love you back says:

    marty: The correct way of publishing that kind of image is using a vectorial image format. That way it’d look perfect even when resized/zoomed or printed, it’d consume less bandwidth, and you could transform it and make it interactive.

    If only all major browsers supported some common vectorial image format…

  17. gabe says:

    all browsers do support vectorial image format well cept for internet explorer

  18. emerald says:

    @Someone/@gabe – Hmm, I wonder some sort of Scalable Vector Graphics format? or something that would open up a Canvas to draw on.

    I vote we call it SVG or Canvas.

    Woot! Everyone is on board!

    oh, wait, IE still doesn’t play the standards game – I wonder if the new year of 2009 will produce a statement from Microsoft to the tune of:

    "Microsoft Internet Explorer will natively support SVG in release ____"

    Heck! I’d be happy to get that in my Christmas stocking next year.

  19. Lenard Less says:

    Happy New Year!

    "IE still doesn’t play the standards game"

    They appear to have made steps in the right direction that say otherwise. Just because they didn’t implement what you want doesn’t mean they’re not playing the standards game.

    It might be a happier 2009 if IE 8 were to ship with non-critical enhancements like Canvas, SVG, proper XHTML, full defineS|Getter/lookupS|Getter, and the W3 event model. That said, it still looks like a great upgrade for IE 7 users (see past blog entries).

  20. luc says:


    WPF and Silverlight supports vectorial images

  21. luc says:


    WPF and Silverlight for IE support vectorial images

  22. Stifu says:

    luc: yeah, because relying on a plugin just to display mere static images is the way to go…?

    Any Silverlight criticism aside, and from an objective point of view, that kind of plugin is clearly better suited for relatively complex stuff (at the very least an animated banner or a throbber, although an animated GIF is often more suitable for the latter).

  23. suc says:

    Is it possible to ignore an attempt to install a specific ActiveX control when you visit a web site? I don’t want to install the Flash 10 plug-in because it causes IE to freeze, but when I visit the web sites I continuosly receive a lot of attempts to install it, and this is very annoying. Why there’s not an option to disable this installation request for a specific activex?

  24. Ted says:

    The whining here would be much less annoying if you guys had any idea what you were talking about.

    The image above is obviously from a vector file; you can see it here: http://www.istockphoto.com/file_closeup.php?id=4876181

    However, you neglect to mention that IE has supported vector images FOREVER.  Windows WMF/EMF files are vector images and have rendered inside IE for over a decade.

  25. - says:

    Ted: Well, IE is alone in that, as every other browser supports SVG instead. Hence, it’s not very useful: the only "use" it ever got was a pretty big security vulnerability. Also, how good is the support? I haven’t tested it, but are they treated as real vectorial things or just rasterized to a bitmap? Do they look good even when zooming?

    In any case, WMF/EMF is not the solution. As much as SVG might be suboptimal, at least you can govern it with JS to animate it and/or enable interactivity (or even create it from scratch). WMF/EMF is just a resizable static image, represented by a GDI command list (hardly a "neutral" thing, even if alternative implementations exist).

    This is just another version of EOT vs TTF. IE might have supported EOT since forever, but nobody ever used it.

  26. Ted the EPIC FAIL says:

    Ted, ever the EPIC FAIL. You forgot about the WMF vulnerability? Or the recent zero-day vulnerability last month that required an out-of-band patch?


    Again, god knows how many of these legacy code crap still active in IE8 that pose a significant threat vector and extremely enticing to malware attacks.

    WMF is not a standard supported by W3C and neither is it cross platform as it doesn’t work on Macs or Linux or mobile devices, so your epic failness again shows.

  27. SVG says:


    "Tim Berners-Lee, the British-born inventor of the World Wide Web"

    "Berners-Lee, director of the standard-setting World Wide Web Consortium, or W3C, said in an interview this week that Internet Explorer is falling behind other browsers in the way it handles an important graphics feature for Web pages."

    "A Web image that is encoded as a scalable vector graphic, or SVG, can be resized to fit the computer screen or zoomed into without becoming blocky and losing sharpness, as happens with images encoded as the more traditional "bitmaps." Maps are one popular use of SVG."

    "If you look around at browsers, you’ll find that most of them support scalable vector graphics," Berners-Lee said. "I’ll let you figure out which one has been slow in supporting SVG."

  28. I am having trouble getting  the internet

  29. Ted says:

    yolandsa, you’re on the internet now.  good job!!!

    As for EMF/WMF not working on Mac or Linux, who cares?  The vast vast majority of the world uses Windows.

    "are they treated as real vectorial things or just rasterized to a bitmap?"

    Unless you understand why that statement doesn’t make any sense, you don’t understand the basic principles of graphics.  

    Vector graphics are **always** rasterized to bitmaps, because that’s what graphics cards know how to render on your monitor.

  30. Ted the EPIC FAIL says:

    Way to EPIC FAIL more, Ted the EPIC FAIL. WMF/EMF is not used on the web at all, while SVG is used, for example Google Maps uses SVG on SVG supporting browsers, so keep on failing epicly. Your troll-fu skills are weak as usual.

  31. Daniel says:

    I don’t know why we all have to start arguing in a simple "Happy new year" post.. Beats me.

    And I even participate >.<

    Hey Ted, the vast vast majority of the world has good eyes, surely there’s no need for glasses. The vast vast majority of the world also suffers from huger and thirst. Surely you don’t eat and drink very much as well, do you?

  32. Say NO to Internet Exploder says:



    Just say NO to Internet Exploder 6/7.

  33. slow blog says:

    Why does this blog load so slowly? is it because of the images the other commenters have mentioned?

    If so can you please fix it soon.

    As for the latest version of IE8 I don’t find that it renders things like other browsers or even like IE7 did. (I’m aware of the whole standards changes but it still looks really un-finished)

    This isn’t the version that will be released soon to the public is it?

  34. Bruce says:

    In IE8 I find that many of my hyperlinks with a CSS dotted border do not show the top portion of the border until I hover over them.

    They work fine in any other browser though.

    Is this a known bug?

  35. milton says:

    I have result tables with the CSS







    If my table is any more than 3-5 rows (normally it is 25-50), moving the mouse vertically up and down over the table should very quickly highlight each row moused over.

    In IE8 only the last row shows the highlight. it is as if IE8 is struggling to keep up with the mouse events.

    Does IE8 have a major bug where one CSS :hover event trumps a previous CSS :hover event?

    I don’t want to resort to adding event handlers just to fix a simple table row highlight feature but this should be snappy.



  36. don says:

    Can you remove the tooltip on the RSS/Feed/WebSlice button on the Command Bar?

    It always pops up under the list that drops down when you click the arrow to choose which RSS/Slice you want to track.

  37. don says:

    The view source option on right-click of any page is much improved, but the cursor/caret thing is all messed up, in renders EXACTLY half way through each character, not before or after each character.

    Worse yet, when you click on the page, it actually picks a spot about 1" to the left of where you actually clicked.

  38. don says:

    It also has the "copy" option when nothing is selected. (in the view source window)

    It prints "about:blank" on printed pages.

    CTRL+F (Find) is a themed dialog, but not an inline find.

    CTRL+G (Goto) is a Windows 95 dialog.

    And the save formatted HTML source… OMG! is that not the worst HTML markup I’ve ever seen!

    Whats with all the UPPER CASE TAGS and the use of INPUT elements to show code markup?

    No Doctype, No html tag, no head tag, no title tag… the whole page renders in IE5 quirks mode!

    [ [ [ Shudder ] ] ]

  39. yaşam deyerlidir aheng vericidir internet ortamıyla….

  40. Eghost says:

    Been away, Happy New Year to all.  Even Ted

  41. Critic says:

    Cut the crap. Give us a solid IE. We can party after that

  42. its official says:

    You know its official that your browser ain’t up to par when Google slags it and recommends switching to one of the browsers that is twice as fast or better:


    There’s fine print about waiting for IE8, but as @Ree pointed out,


    IE8 is 10x slower than the other modern browsers in development.

  43. Damian Shaw says:

    @ its official

    I’m not sticking up for IE8, but I’d like to see you define faster.

    Say a shop sell bread at £0.50 and sells a T.V at £400

    Say another shop sells bread at £1.50 but sells the same T.V at £300

    Is the second show £99 cheaper or does it depend how often you buy bread? Browsers are like that except you can’t go to 1 browser to render one part of the page and the other browser to render another part.

    Saying IE8 is 10x slower is a very subjective statement.

  44. @its official

    Seeing as Google is trying to promote their own browser, it’s not saying much for them at axe IE. Actually, I’d say it’s a pretty sneaky move and possibly viable as an anti-trust suit, seeing as IE6 is still a very prevalent browser.

    @IE Team

    Keep up the good work! Someday I hope to be able to argue decisively against my friends who continually brag about FireFox.

  45. TR says:


    Try this:

    tr td {



    tr:hover td {



  46. bramar says:

    @TR – No! that is NOT a good idea!

    If milton wants the WHOLE row to alternate color on hover, then changing the TD would be goofy. (e.g. changing ‘n’ elements background (the table cells) vs. changing ‘1’ elements background (the table row))

    I’ve actually tried this myself. If you think the rendering is slow for the row toggle, the td toggle across an entire row is even slower and actually gets worse because some of the cells get so delayed that you’ll start highlighting row 7 before row 6 has finished resulting in a broken wave pattern.

    I suspect milton’s guess at the bug is likely an accurate one.

    @Damian – I believe the stats are pretty clear.  For pure JS processing speed, IE comes in last every time.  With deep ties to the OS and several pre-loaded resources the IE browser loads fast and the rendering of pure HTML is pretty quick. If IE doesn’t pick up the pace with JS processing and apps continue to maximize the use of JS IE will only fall further and further behind in the browser usage stats.

    (IE has already fallen below 69% and Firefox is up over 21%)


  47. Mobile says:


    MS must sure hate standards compliant web developers to even release this garbage.

  48. Stifu says:

    @Wraith Daquell

    "Seeing as Google is trying to promote their own browser, it’s not saying much for them at axe IE."

    Except they’re also promoting Firefox, so it’s not just about killing competition, but about pushing the web forward.

    In case you didn’t bother visiting the page, check it out: http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?&answer=107906&hl=en

  49. anyone's reckoning says:

    The alt text for the image in this post is not suitable.  "Two champagne glasses toasting" sounds like a caption, and thus is suitable *title* text but not suitable alt text.

    Good alt text usually consists of a complete sentence or sentences chosen so that the no-images user wouldn’t even be aware that they were "missing" anything — which they shouldn’t be anyway, as good alt text provides an *equivalent* (not necessarily identical) experience to the image as far as is practically reasonable.

    In this particular case, good alt text would be "Cheers from the IE Team".

  50. can someone fix the image already says:

    can someone fix the image already? its been wrong for over 4 days now! yeesh!

  51. Sterling says:

    ¡Feliz Año Nuevo, IE Team!

    I’m really enjoying using IE8.

    Here’s to a great 2009 and a great IE8 release.

  52. @Stifu

    They have to continue to promote Firefox to keep up the PR image. How would it look for the "Don’t be evil" company to backstab someone they pretended to support for years? But even the Mozilla team says that things are strained.


  53. @Milton, @bramar

    Over here


    with my modest system resources and when using IE 8 pre-RC1 Partner Build 18344, I do not notice slow or poor performance in background-color change: the background-color changes in less than 0.2 sec.


    You need to provide a testcase, provide useful details, helpful specifics, accurate measurements, parameters, quantitative data as much as possible, helping reproducing of the problem:

    – is the webpage declaring a doctype? is it triggering standards mode.. or compatibility view rendering mode? etc.

    – is the HTML document using entirely valid markup code?

    – is the HTML document using entirely valid CSS code?

    – is the table using border-collapse: collapse model or border-collapse: separate model?

    – how many table rows are there?

    – how many table columns?

    – are the table cells holding/rendering tabular data? or nested tables? multimedia content? how much content?

    – which version of IE 8 are you using?

    – how fast (time duration) is "very quickly", "snappy"? "very quickly", "snappy" are somewhat subjective descriptions …

    – what is your PC performance-related system resources (Cpu, RAM, video card)?

    – are there any other applications running in the background when you execute the :hover-ing?

    – etc,etc,…

    Regards, Gérard

  54. Windows 7 beta could corrupt your MP3s says:


    Code quality at MS sure is bad these days. Where’s the QA/QC people and why are they missing all of these major bugs? Windows Mojave, I mean 7 is turning out to be another turd like Vista.

  55. Tomas says:

    @Windows 7 beta could corrupt your MP3s

    Omigods, bugz in beta, we’ll all die. LOLz.

  56. Fredie M says:


    **  M I C R O S O F T   C A L L   T O   A C T I O N  **


    Its now the first full working week of 2009 and IE8 is due to go RTM this quarter (e.g. within 90 days)

    IE8 PR1 is currently NOT anywhere ready for a production release and developers are starting to worry about how dedicated Microsoft is to fixing IE8 before it ships.

    IE8 is a monumental milestone in the move towards IE supporting standards and will have to be supported by developers for AT LEAST A DECADE after it is released (e.g. 2019!)

    Since this release is more significant than the IE7 release ever was it is utterly important that developers are kept in the loop as to WHAT will and WHAT won’t be fixed in IE8 so that we aren’t sideswiped with an RTM that needs weeks of testing before we can even determine what route to take with OUR production code.

    Therefore the following questions ABSOLUTELY REQUIRE an answer before IE8 RTM ships.

    1.) Will IE8 Feedback on Connect be kept up to date with internal fixes WHEN they happen – and not be mass-updated (often incorrectly) when IE8 goes RTM.

    2.) Will this blog identify beforehand with at least a few days notice of when IE8 RTM will ship so that we can prepare for it.

    3.) Will Microsoft be shipping another RC (Release Candidate) release before the IE8 RTM is shipped (as noted, IE8 PR1 is currently NOT acceptable as a final version (read: FAILS the RC tests)

    Thank you very much, and best of luck and success in 2009.


    All Web Application/Site Developers & Designers


    **  M I C R O S O F T   C A L L   T O   A C T I O N  **


  57. Daniel says:

    @Fredie M:

    The Partner Build available to beta testers is just a build that shows some improvements to Beta 2. But you can hardly say it’s representative.

    The IE Team already announced that there’ll be at least one Release Candidate public build before RTM.

    It’t this RC build that is expected this quarter. It’s not yet known when RTM will be released.

    If you find bugs, report them over at Connect. Anything else is simply annoying.

  58. David says:

    your image url, http://ieblog.members.winisp.net/images/cheers.jpg , returns a "500 – Internal server error."


  59. steve says:

    @Daniel – Where did you hear ***OFFICIAL*** word from Microsoft that the Partner Build was ***NOT*** the Release Candidate build indicated due for Q1-2009?

    I agree with @Fredie M that the current Partner Build is hardly better than Beta 2 and that neither are ready for production but a wall of silence from the IE Team doesn’t help ease our minds when we are waiting for the ball to drop.

    If anything 2009 should be the year that the IE Team focuses on transparency.

    We haven’t even dealt with the old issues yet and new features are being pushed.  My tests thus far with slices, accelerators and local storage all indicate bugs – but I don’t even have time to report them as I’m too busy trying to determine if I can even support IE8 if it ships before fixing all the regression bugs.

  60. EricLaw [MSFT] says:

    @Steve, I’ve stated it in the past, and I’m happy to restate it: The December partner build was NOT the release candidate build which will be released in the first quarter of this year.

    I don’t know where you’re getting this "wall of silence" idea from, as we’ve been discussing issues on the blog extensively over the last few months.

  61. steve says:

    @EricLaw [MSFT]: I agree that you personally have been quite active in responding to questions and comments on this blog (and it is much appreciated).

    The "wall of silence" comment is the one that stems from the time that Dave left onwards. Even when Dave was around, the "Public Relations" spin on much of the posts was so thick and ambiguous that not much info could be reliably extracted.

    Re: RC Date – Thanks, its good to hear that there will be an RC build in Q1, 2009 and that it is not the Partner Release that came out late last year (the build naming was mis-leading)

    As for questions that do not have transparent answers at the moment I’d like to repeat a few that have been asked several times before with no answer.

    1.) Will there be any sort of changelog/fix list published (before or after) IE8 RTM is shipped such that developers that don’t check this site daily can quickly get up to speed.

    2.) Will a permanent public bug tracking site be setup for after the IE8 RTM release so that developers can contribute to it without fear of completely wasting their time by populating it.

    3.) Will (above) and the existing IE Feedback site get more regular status updates than the historic:

    "We’ve just released a new build – Mark all open bugs as fixed and let the developers re-test everything and re-open it"


    4.) Will there ever be a roadmap for IE development? Not having any clue what direction IE is going in is a very hard model to develop against. (as always – we aren’t holding you to this – we just want to have an idea of what you are even considering)

    5.) IE for mobile devices… is currently stuck promoting IE6 technology which the rest of the web is trying desperately to get rid of.  Is there a roadmap for when Windows mobile devices will have an IE7 or IE8 based integrated browser?

    There’s many other concerns but I suspect all would be met with "maybe in a future release".


    Oh, btw, when the Partner Release came out, it would have been much better if the release post indicated that it was not the anticipated RC that developers were expecting.

  62. @steve

    You listed some 27 problems starting here:


    You were asked about providing a testcase for each/all of these problems:


    I’m not able to reproduce most of the "regressions" you’ve reported.  It would be very helpful if you linked to relevant test cases.


    Without a testcase, there is very little to go on here.

    The only reasonable, constructive thing to do until RC1 is released is to test thoroughly IE8 pre-RC1 Partner build 18344 and to report bugs/problems at IE beta feedback with a [preferably] reduced testcase.

    Regards, Gérard

  63. @steve

    1.) (…) changelog/fix list published (before or after) IE8 RTM is shipped

    The support list is already accessible, available:

    What changed in IE 8?


    HTML and CSS Support


    HTML Enhancements in Internet Explorer 8


    CSS improvements in  Internet Explorer 8


    CSS Compatibility and Internet Explorer


    To a large extent, the info you request is already available in those webpages.

    The bug fix list can be very long, very time consuming to do (over 2000 bugs affecting a wide range of modules may be fixed when IE8 RTM). My guess is that there will be one but not a carefully detailed one with explicit explanations. What would be wrong with a

    "Float/clearance model implementation: 13 bugs identified with specific testcases have been fixed"


    2.) permanent public bug tracking site after the IE8 RTM release so that developers can contribute to it without fear of completely wasting their time by populating it.

    I personally would be against that, at least, against bug report contributions from so-called "developers" who haved not demonstrated they can create useful, terse, reduced testcases, who have not searched for DUPlicated bugs, whose bug title/description/summary are general, vague, etc..

    3.) Will (above) and the existing IE Feedback site get more regular status updates than the historic:

    "We’ve just released a new build – Mark all open bugs as fixed and let the developers re-test everything and re-open it"


    The bug reporter also has a responsibility to close the bug lifecycle by stating+confirming that his/her bug, as explained, as specified and as testcase-ed, has been fixed, therefore closing the loop of feedback. That is why bugzilla.mozilla.org, bugs.kde.org, bugs.webkit.org, etc.. and other public accessible bug reporting systems have and use the VERIFIED status separated, distinct from the RESOLUTION field.

    4.) Will there ever be a roadmap for IE development? Not having any clue what direction IE is going in is a very hard model to develop against. (as always – we aren’t holding you to this – we just want to have an idea of what you are even considering)

    Roadmaps in other browser vendors are quite lax, flexible, general. Anyway, right now is not the time to state in rigid commitments what to do/will happen with SVG, some CR CSS3 modules, application/xhtml+xml MIME type, MathML, etc…

    And there is a major economic crisis going on worldwide (definitely affecting IT corporations) and it will be a long one too according to lots of experts. BTW, persistent rumors indicate that Microsoft is expected to cut back and do lots of layoff (15,000) this coming january 15th 2009.

    Regards, Gérard

  64. Daniel says:


    I don’t fanc that solution, but if you’re under serious time constraints, *please* use <meta http-equiv="x-ua-compatible" content="IE=7"> or the EmulateIE7 flag.

    This will buy you as much time as you need.

    Please consider this: If you write a testcase now, it may give the dev the ability to fix the bug. in this case you won’t have to deal with it for the next decae (as you’d like to put it).

    Making websites compatible to a "inofficial" partner build is wasted time. Don’t test before RC. Please wirte tests, as many as possible. And report them over Connect, that’s simply the best thing we can do now.

    We all want IE 8 to become a best as possible release, but that requires testing *now*, and *not* after the release, when it’s too late.

  65. Daniel says:

    @EricLaw [MSFT]

    Eric, I noticed that I made a mistake in this bug report:


    I gave the wrong code examples (well, invalid ones).

    I added a comment with the correct code where Line Two is either an anonymous box or an floated/absolutely positioned element.

    Is this comment read by you/the devs? I just wondered if IE8’s rendering is correct in this case. I noticed that Opera renders them the same, so I won’t reopen the bug, but I want to be sure everything works as expected. Thanks.

  66. Rajeev says:

    Can you people come up with a user friendly simple browser in 2009. Ease of use is important for accessibility.

  67. steve says:

    @Gérard Talbot

    Indeed I was asked to provide test cases for the 27 bugs I listed.

    I also responded after that indicating that I don’t have time to build one for each and every bug I listed, EricLaw indicated that they couldn’t repro most of them, thus please indicate which ones they could – so that I wouldn’t waste time creating test cases for those ones.

    (see here)


    But that clarification never came.

    I have a day job too.  I have contributed and filed almost 200 bug reports and test cases in IE Feedback (between IE7 and IE8) and only a handful were ever acknowledged, and even fewer were fixed.

    I am a team player (don’t get me wrong) but without 2-way communication on the bug front it all falls apart.

    As for the table row highlighting test case you added, I’m happy to state that that one works fine for me in IE8 PR1.  I need to extract the simple test case from 1 of the two private apps I have that exhibit the bug but I might not be able to provide that until later this week. (I’ll file it in Connect when I do)

    On a side note, to Gérard, John A. Bilicki III, stifu, Richard Fink, etc. (and even Ted!)

    Does anyone want to start a proper public bug tracking site for IE with hierarchies, dependencies, test cases etc. (e.g. using bugzilla, trac, or similar)

    I’d be happy to participate in a project like this that I know won’t vanish when the next IE is released, and if/when connect is re-opened for IE9 links to the public DB could be easily dropped in.

    I can’t contribute much financially but I’m sure if we all chipped in hosting a site would be quite doable.


  68. Johnny Awkward says:

    It certainly would be a happy new year if you end of lined IE6.

  69. EricLaw [MSFT] says:

    @Johnny– Microsoft’s support lifecycle for IE6 is posted here: http://support.microsoft.com/gp/lifesupsps/#Internet_Explorer

    We encourage customers to update to the latest available version of IE for many reasons.  Regardless of their support status, customers use Microsoft products as they choose.

  70. @EricLaw [MSFT]

    Initial condition


    Make sure you have

    Tools/Internet Options/Advanced tab/Browsing category/Recover automatically from page layout errors with Compatibility View

    checkbox checked when using IE 8 pre-RC1 Partner Build 6001.18344. This setting is activated by default; the checkbox is checked by default.

    Steps to reproduce


    1- Load


    in pre-RC1 PB 18344 under XP Pro SP3

    2- Hover the mouse cursor over the link "connect’s IE beta feedback as bug 365927"

    Actual result


    A balloon will pop up saying


    Compatibility View

    A problem displaying gtalbot.org caused Internet Explorer to refresh the webpage using Compatibility View


    and the webpage automatically switches into non-standards rendering mode.

    This behavior is also reproducible 100% with some other links in the page and at


    Important note


    The user then may not be aware that rendering mode (documentMode) will remain in Compatibility view as long as the user remains (browses, surfs to new webpages) in the *_same domain_*. This may not be easily noticeable.

    Regards, Gérard

  71. @Steve

    >Indeed I was asked to provide test cases for the 27 bugs I listed.

    6 people overall have invited you, have suggested to you or have formally asked you to provide testcase(s) and/or report these problems/regressions/bugs to Connect’s IE beta feedback. Most of them some 25 days ago. 3 of them (EricLaw, Dan, SylvainG) being [MSFT] people.

    > I also responded after that indicating that I don’t have time to build one for each and every bug I listed, EricLaw indicated that they couldn’t repro most of them, thus please indicate which ones they could – so that I wouldn’t waste time creating test cases for those ones.

    Maybe you misunderstood him. EricLaw said

    "I’m not able to reproduce most of the ‘regressions’ you’ve reported.  It would be very helpful if you linked to relevant test cases.  Thanks!"

    as he most likely meant all of the 27 mentioned problems/bugs/regressions. This is how I understood his

    "’regressions’ you’ve reported"

    figure of speech-reply. There is no way one would know for sure what could be the precise markup code and CSS code causing/triggering most of those 27 mentioned problems/bugs/regressions just by reading your 27 short, limited descriptions.

    > But that clarification never came.

    > I have a day job too.  I have contributed and filed almost 200 bug reports and test cases in IE Feedback (between IE7 and IE8) and only a handful were ever acknowledged, and even fewer were fixed.

    > I am a team player (don’t get me wrong) but without 2-way communication on the bug front it all falls apart.

    This is an exchange you had with Dan:

    December 11, 2008

    @Steve: I trust you filed all the bugs in the bug database you have access to?


    December 11, 2008

    @Dan – No I haven’t filed any of these bugs in Connect yet.

    I want confirmation of where this build sits in the roadmap first. (…)

    If any filed bugs in connect are going to get shut down again by an RC release in 30 days or so then I won’t waste any of my time filing them (beyond the public "filing" above).


    You and I don’t control the IE team agenda, policies, roadmap, to-do list, bugs-to-fix list, postpond-bugs list, hierarchies, requirements, etc. Microsoft is a private business, driven by profits, aimed at keeping share holders happy, etc. It’s not a free-drinks-in-open-bar where democracy rules, where your demands/wishes are their orders, etc. Even in open-source projects, not everyone is consulted, not every meeting is accessible, not everything is consultable, documented or transparent or logical/coherent/consequent or resolved/managed as fast as a snap of fingers.

    I’m not going to deny that they have done a few fumbles here, turnovers there, bad calls, counter-productive planning, incoherent decisions, etc… regarding IE beta feedback bug database management/design/configurability, some bug reports, etc… Regarding IE beta feedback bug database, I have suggested several improvements which have been supported also by others in IE Blog and so far they declined or ignored them. Ultimately, it’s their decision, not mine, not yours.

    A very wide majority of web developers would want IE 8 to be as best and W3C-web-standards-compliant (in particular HTML 4 and CSS 2.1) as possible release, but that requires testing *now* and proper bug reporting when needed/justified, and *not* testing+reporting after the release, when it’s way too late for IE8 and way too early for IE9 (… in 2010?).

    Regards, Gérard

  72. IE 8 is a poor product. I dumped it and installed Mozilla. I was sick of correcting the 125 percent zoom. Almost every web page visited had to be manually corrected. This takes my staff far too long. We Goggled the heck out of this and could not find a solution, so, Good Bye!

  73. steve says:

    @Gérard Talbot: I’m not trying to start a fight here but I will sum up with the following statements. (this is more for the IE team than anything else)

    1.) From my limited testing, IE8 PR1 is not any better than IE8 B2 – in fact *I* find it in many ways worse.

    2.) I will add bug reports and test cases as best I can, when I can. Sometimes they may be a simple comment on this blog, other times a full blown report in Connect. However sometimes just commenting about a bug is enough. Especially when another reader can indicate that they too are experiencing an issue. It helps verify a bug before even writing a test case.

    3.) I personally am NOT HAPPY AT ALL with Connect, its lack of features, its lack of a permanent up time status, the way it is managed, the horrid DHTML flyovers that don’t work, and the fact that users can not download or view test cases, or upload test cases to another users report.  There are many better, and often free alternatives… pick one, host it… and lets move on.

    4.) 2-Way communication.  This still needs to be solved. For starters, there should be an FAQ link for each release/build mentioned on this blog so that users can read the up-to-date status on all things IE.

    5.) Status of bugs fixed (internally) should be pushed out sooner rather than later.  Waiting until the next Beta/RC release for these updates is frustrating, especially when bug reports are neglected. Whatever system is used, a proper triage status is required, and one of those states needs to be "Acknowledged" or "Verified".  Waiting 2-3 months for the IE Team to fix something, only to get a "Closed – we think this is fixed now – please retest" (when no effort to fix the bug was ever made) is extremely annoying and rude… and not the way to treat your worldwide (free as in beer) QA team.

    6.) I seriously, seriously want IE8 to be a big success, and ideally move as many users as possible off of IE6 and IE7.  I just want IE8 to be a worthy browser to move up to.  The biggest bug for me has been the lack of a working window.resize event firing on iframe elements.


    I have been waiting since: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:25 PM for this issue to be fixed (it was reported by many that month)


    Even trying to test the rest of my applications with this bug not being fixed is a royal pain.

    I appreciate that "part" of this regression was fixed (for the top window) but (in my case) that didn’t help me at all.

    7.) I can only hope that the RC due out this quarter is fit and polished to be fully testable and ready for release. I really do not want to force an IE7 rendering mode unless I absolutely have to.  Upon the RC release I will be testing extensively and filing/updating bug reports ASAP.



  74. @steve

    > IE8 PR1 is not any better than IE8 B2 – in fact *I* find it in many ways worse.

    Assuming you meant IE8 (pre-RC1) PB18344, then I do not arrive to your conclusion. I think IE8 PB18344 is better than Beta2, a clear step forward in the right direction. "Your mileage may vary"

    2) Discussion on a short bug description can not and will not go very far without a concrete specific testcase highlighting/reproducing the issue. A single line of code or a difference of order of 1 line of code or a validation markup error can (and often do) make a decisive difference when layout is the issue.

    Milton’s and bramar’s post on a presumed bug is a good demonstration that, without a testcase, we can’t be sure of anything, one way or another.

    3) I fully, entirely agree with your sentiments regarding Connect’s IE beta feedback bug database management/configurability/design. More components (eg form submission, table layout, DOM HTML, view source, etc) should be added, more types of bug reports (eg enhancement request) should be added, introduction of keywords (eg hasReduction, NeedReduction, clean-report, testcase, verifyme, need-info, etc), more types of resolution (eg incomplete).

    Others have also asked that the horrid DHTML flyovers be removed for countless (and excellent!) reasons.

    5) Bugs reports neglected does not necessarly imply that bugs are neglected or that they are not being fixed or that development/debugging work, efforts are not deployed.

    Regards, Gérard

  75. Harel M. Williams [MSFT] says:

    @Norman Reynolds

    I am assuming you were annoyed because your system is set in High DPI mode and IE kept defaulting back to 125% zoom? First, we have decided to change the design so that IE remembers the last zoom setting you set. So, if you set it to 100%, it will remain at 100% for all opened pages until you change it. This default behavior will be set in IE8 RC, which is due out soon.

    In order to get this behavior in IE8 beta 2 or earlier, this is what you need to do:

    In IE8 Beta 2:

    1. Go to Tools->Internet Options

    2. Click on the Advanced Tab

    3. Uncheck the setting ‘Reset zoom level for new windows and tabs’

    4. Click ‘Ok’ button

  76. John says:

    PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, for those of us who use WSUS release a version of IE8 that will deploy silently!! PLEASE!!

  77. stanley says:

    whats with the image on this post? why does it take almost a full minute to load? did someone mess up the dimensions or something and if so why has it not been fixed already?

  78. Rajeev says:

    When will be the Browser compatibility issues will be resolved?.

    Do Microsoft has anything in their mind for IE future releases.?

    There should be a common standard followed by all the browsers so that, there shouldn’t be any time consumed for fixing the browser compatibility issues.

    Microsoft please take initiative for this.

  79. Pension says:

    your image url, http://ieblog.members.winisp.net/images/cheers.jpg , returns a "500 – Internal server error."

    Greets Pension

  80. Donald says:


     How many days does it take the IE Team to change an image hosted on the IE Blog?


     We don’t know, we’re still waiting.

     Maybe they think we like huge file downloads?

     Maybe they don’t know about this new fangled PNG image format yet?

     Or maybe, just maybe, they have the Create permission, but not the Update permission on the Blog?

    Maybe one day they will figure out how to edit images – I hear you can do that, but maybe it is only on a Mac? 😉

  81. Marc says:

    Has anyone else noticed that this is the last post that shows up in the Windows Vista sidebar headline gadget?  There haven’t been any new articles showing up from any of the Microsoft feeds since New Years.

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