July Chat with the IE Team on Thursday


Join members of the Internet Explorer team for an Expert Zone chat next Thursday, July 17th  at 10.00 PDT/17.00 UTC. These chats are a great opportunity to have your questions answered by members of the IE product team. Thank you to all who have attended the chats to date!

If you can’t join us online, all chat transcripts are published here. Allow approximately 7-10 days following a chat for the transcript to go live.

Hope you can join us on Thursday!

Kristen Kibble
Program Manager

P.S. Upcoming IE chat dates are posted here.

Comments (62)

  1. Anonymous says:

    Hi,

    I got 2 questions, when is MS going to implement the fit to width feature? And what about instant back/forward? Both of these features are found in Opera. Thanks.

  2. Anonymous says:

    question when are they going to enable microsoft Transfer Manager for the vpc image download page? especially for the 3 part vista vpc image. also are we going to canvas object support?

  3. Anonymous says:

    Erbitte Ihre Mitteilungen in  Deutscher Sprache

    sonst kann ich damit nichts anfangen. Danke

  4. Anonymous says:

    Senden Sie mir Ihre mitteilungen in Deutsch bitte . Danke

  5. Anonymous says:

    pseudo-translated to German for Schelsky

    ========================================

    Join Mitglieder des Internet-Explorer-Team bei einem Experten-Chat am kommenden Donnerstag, dem 17. Juli um 10.00 Uhr UTC PDT/17.00. Diese Chats sind eine großartige Gelegenheit, alle Ihre Fragen beantwortet von den Mitgliedern der IE-Produkt-Team. Vielen Dank an alle, haben an den Chats-to-date!

    Wenn Sie sich nicht bei uns online, alle Chat-Transkripte sind hier veröffentlicht. Lassen Sie ca. 7-10 Tage nach einem Chat-Transkript für die zu leben.

    Hoffe, Sie können bei uns am Donnerstag!

    Kristen Kibble

    Programm-Manager

    P.S. Kommende IE Chat-Termine werden hier gepostet.

  6. Anonymous says:

    Please support DOM Level 2 Events and canvas. All the other browsers support this.

  7. Anonymous says:

    Note that "DOM Level 2 Events" is a W3C recommendation since 13 November 2000…

  8. Anonymous says:

    If you didn’t remember: tomorrow is IE 8 (beta) chat time : "Please join experts from the Internet

  9. larutan says:

    Any chance in Microsoft just putting a wrapper around either Firefox, Opera or Safari and calling it IE 8?  I think the world would greatly benefit from it.

  10. Anonymous says:

    @larutan: No.  The world would not benefit.

  11. larutan says:

    Maybe not the WHOLE world … just those people that use IE as a browser and those that have to develop web sites for those same users. 🙂

  12. Anonymous says:

    @laurtan: spoken like someone who has very little idea what he/she is talking about.  The reality is that competition is good for the industry, and if FF et. all were really as good as you’d like to think, they’d have more than 20% marketshare.  

  13. Anonymous says:

    Ted is a trolling IE fanboy, don’t feed him.

    Whatever the IE team does, they’re right, are the best and all that.

  14. Anonymous says:

    larutan – FF 3 is not all its cut out to be.  

    People are sometimes too fast to jump on the FF bandwagon.

  15. Anonymous says:

    Larutan didn’t specifically mention Firefox 3, but personally, I like it a lot (and I think its release was much less rushed / much more stable than the one of Opera 9.5). And Fx3.1, due out soon enough, will bring some nice CSS things for developers to mess with (CSS3 selectors, text-shadow, box-shadow…).

  16. Anonymous says:

    @Dave – FF may not be the best thing ever, but it is currently the best Web Browser ever.  Opera and Safari fight for second, Konqueror takes forth, with IE7 taking 5th (IE6 we’ll just try to forget)

    IE8 does look like it is heading in the right direction, but the tight-lip on IE8 Beta 2 features makes it very hard to tell.

    There’s still lots of DOM issues in Beta 1, and the CSS is better, but still far shy of what all the other browsers offer.

    My biggest fear is the IE continued departure from standards again.  We are already seeing signs of this with the activities/slices… and the global storage/session storage doesn’t seem to match up.

  17. Anonymous says:

    @Dave

    You are right on that, but I am afraid I can’t resist the power of Firefox. Basically FF is highly customizable by its configurations, layout and appearance. Once customized, I felt sense of ownership—something I could not experience with IE.

  18. Anonymous says:

    Please add thumbnail like previews of tabs when you place the mouse cursor over them. Like the one in Opera (Previews with size like the WebSlice ones)

    Please do make IE8 the fastest browser available (Faster than Firefox, Safari, Opera)

  19. Anonymous says:

    I like all five or six of the major browsers, however there are some things that I like about IE a lot, which are:

    1. Bookmarks stored as 1kb shortcuts for easy manipulation from file browser

    2. Scroll bar scrolls at faster rate with arrow keys

    3. Does not freeze or shutdown as often as Firefox

    4. Looks like a Windows program, fits in with Windows environment best

    5. Minimizes memory usage when minimized

    6. Isn’t free. They pay the developers, unlike Mozilla which profits through Google and donations.

    7. Otherwise is basically the same as every other browser. I can never really figure out what the fuss is about them all. As long as you can see the webpage okay and basic things like typing in inline text boxes and stuff work…

    And I don’t necessarily find it slower. Sometimes FF and Opera are faster, sometimes they aren’t. Actually Opera is usually faster, but it has other annoyances.

    8. IE’s rendering engine, which Maxthon also uses. Not a big deal, but sometimes it’s noticeable (the way a page loads, what comes first, second, third, etc).

    9. Even with IE1-6, you had a tab bar. It’s called the START BAR!!! Just because it’s at the bottom of the screen doesn’t mean….

    10. Has the "tab list" button, which is nice. I use that more than "quick tabs," which I think Opera started.

    11. A few other things that are hard to describe, that seem to be mostly invisible or intangile, which improve user experience. There’s probably some other things, but mostly the browsers are all the same and you can pick any of them and have a good time.  

  20. Anonymous says:

    Actually maybe it doesn’t minimize memory usage when minimized. The program MemUse v0.4 doesn’t show a drop, and in Task Manager (XP) it shows the memory slowly climb back up.

  21. Anonymous says:

    @Matthew

    You are clearly not a developer as this is where IE really comes into its own.

    It is possible to develop even a simple page in FF, go on to test it in the other browsers and it will appear pretty much the same. Apart from IE as something will be messed up and require extra time to fix.

    Try and start developing a web application and it becomes even more difficult (different event mode, no Range support etc) or downright impossible (SVG, Canvas, MathML not supported).

    Now it is true that to many users it does not make a great deal of difference which browser they are using and in fact many don’t even realise they are using a browser. I still believe that Microsoft should be doing much better.

    Unfortunately I get the impression that a lot more cash has been put into creating a competitor to flash than into making a better web browser.

  22. Anonymous says:

    It was a good chat session, thanks to the MS Experts.  Here are some of the AJAX related Q/A during the chat for those that missed it.

    EricLaw [MSFT] (Expert)[13:13]:

    Q: [20] Can you talk a little bit more about this new "Improved Protected Mode" in IE8. What are the differences to IE 7 in this respect?

    A: As noted in the blog post (http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/07/02/ie8-security-part-v-comprehensive-protection.aspx) the improvements primarily consist of APIs that make it easier for add-ons and internal applications to interact with Protected Mode instances. There’s documentation on MSDN covering the full set of new APIs.

    EricLaw [MSFT] (Expert)[13:15]:

    Q: [21] 18: What I mean is, do we just say, for example ‘createNavPoint()’ and then a new entry shows up in their history that will restore the state of the app at the time the nav point was created?

    A: This isn’t something that would happen automatically. If you check out the blogs linked from http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/07/14/ie8-ajax-navigation.aspx, you’ll see how you can use the AJAXNav improvement to build a "createNavPoint()" type function that reconstitutes your application’s prior state out of the fragment data. Their example shows how to do this with Silverlight + Javascript, but you can of course do this with Javascript alone.

    Chris Wilson [MS] (Expert)[13:16]:

    Q: [25] In developing this AJAX navigation in IE8, are you (Microsoft) working with any outside stanrdard groups to make the API standard or consistent to prevent each browser implementing it in a different way?

    A: Ah. No – it’s not an automatic "state restore" for the entire web application platform engine (e.g. it doesn’t roll back Javascript variables, etc.) – it gives the web app (the HTML page) the ability to put checkpoints into the nav stack, and gives the app a notification when the user wants to go "back" -so the web app still has to do some work to support it.

    Chris Wilson [MS] (Expert)[13:18]:

    Q: [31] Are there any improvements about memory leak?

    A: One of the significant causes of memory leaks was the use of Javascript closures. This functionality essentially pins an object in memory across the scope of any function. In IE7 we made some improvements in circumventing leaks caused by closures, but we are continuing in this effort in IE8. There are a number of relevant articles about our tools ( http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2007/11/29/tools-for-detecting-memory-leaks.aspx ) and some information to help developers understand how these problems are caused (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb250448.aspx).

    EricLaw [MSFT] (Expert)[13:44]:

    Q: [51] when we do a xmlhttp request to server and assign the contant to a frame and do it again to a different web page and repeat these operation, if the memory of ie in task manager is noticed it will be keep on growing every time, any solutions?

    A: You must ensure that you’re properly clearing the event handlers to prevent closures. There are a number of articles you can find that describe how to do this; search for Reusing XMLHTTPRequest leak for some more info.

  23. Anonymous says:

    There’s an error your transcript; Q25’s answer was intended for Q21.  

    The answer to Q25 ("Is Microsoft working with standards on AJAXnav") the answer is yes, this behavior is a part of HTML5.

  24. Anonymous says:

    Well, if thats the case, then the answer itself was wrong since I simply copy/pasted this directly from the chat window itself.  

    So someone answered the question wrong….

  25. Anonymous says:

    You’re right, I’m not a developer. That is why my opinion matters more, because I am an end-user who actually uses the product for what it’s intended to do, and I will be honest unlike most people and say that I cannot tell much difference between IE, Maxthon, Opera, Firefox, Safari or Konquerer. They have, for instance, similar or identical keyboard shortcuts, they have similar menus, their buttons are often in the same place (except for IE7 which happily broke with this tradition)…. if you go back in time in terms of softwares out there, such as by comparing word processors in the 80s, you see a more substantial difference between their features and controls, and how efficient they are. Likewise, even today, with image editors and FTP programs and other programs in which there are many competitors, there are a lot of different aspects between them. With web browsers they are all the same to the user, the person they are made for. Web developers are "behind the curtain," just as browser-developers. I don’t care if my opinion sounds arrogant, or if you respond with "well then what are you doing here, at ieblog, if you’re not a developer?" I have to put up with crap all the time on the internet about people saying how we should switch to FF or if you haven’t made the switch yet then you’re a Neandertal, and then inevitably some guy chimes in with "I’ve been using Opera for 7 years and it’s always been better than FF" and blah blah blah. Well folks they’re pretty much all the same. More flavor differences between Pepsi and Coke, honestly.

  26. Anonymous says:

    i have only one question… how come Eric Lawrence is so good looking!!

  27. Anonymous says:

    @Matthew

    The key difference between the browsers is what functionality they support — the quality of web pages is limited by what common features are supported by browsers. Since IE supports the least amount of desirable functionality and is the slowest, any web page designed can use only this functionality, often having to ignore the enhancements in other browsers.

    It’s users like you that won’t move away from browsers like IE when you’ve been told over and over again to do so that slows down visible progress.

  28. Anonymous says:

    Why should I move away from IE? All the other browsers offer the same experience.

    I used FireFox for two years and Opera for 1. I’ve recently tried all the most recently released versions of the five or six major browsers (okay maybe not Konquerer or Safari. I’ve used them before, but not a lot). They’re all very boring. They’re all essentially the same as like IE4 and Netscape 3 or something. I mean, it’s the year 2008. I thought by now it would be like that scene in Johnny Mnemonic where he has the glasses on and the Powerglove and he’s like swerving around through wireframe space.

    Actually for a while I was using Slackware Linux and I was typing "links google.com" at the console before starting x. "Links" is like "Lynx," the text-only browser, except I found it easier to use. I was surprised at how many websites were still just as easy to read and navigate and enjoy this way. Now that I am on a laptop and I have an LCD screen I don’t mind all the whiteness. On LCD screens, black text on white space looks better than black text on white.

    But, let me make myself even clearer. For ethical reasons I will now continue to use either IE or Maxthon over other browsers just to spite people like orzage. The same with Windows. I’ve heard the same Jehovas Witness-like evangelism from Linux-lovers and I tried it and I realized it was vastly inferior and so now I’m back to good old Microsoft which only cost $200.

    I also recently sent an angry email to Richard Stallman after he wrote that BBC piece and he responded with absolutely nothing that was relavent to what I said. He didn’t have any rebuttals. It was LAME. I felt even worse when I google image searched his name and saw that he was using the same computer as me in one of them, in apparently a home-like setting of some kind, using my Thinkpad X31. That pissed me off. Now I have to sell this thing.

  29. larutan says:

    @Ted

    Seriously, I know a way Microsoft could really start rolling in the dough.  Have a convention once a year and invite all the web developers from around the world to come.  Tell them that for X-billion dollars Microsoft will pretend to have their own browser but really it will just be Firefox in disguise (like Flock).  Then just pass a few baskets down the aisles and wait for the money to start pouring in!  The best part is that your end users would never know the difference!  See the reason so many people use IE ISN’T because it’s better, it’s just because they don’t know any better.  They think that if it’s made by Microsoft then it MUST be good (ie. Sharepoint).    

  30. larutan says:

    @Dave

    I edited a few typos you had in your last post.  No thanks is needed!

    —— What Dave meant to say ——

    IE 7 is not all its cut out to be.  

    People are sometimes too SLOW to jump OFF the MS bandwagon.

  31. larutan says:

    Please disregard Mike’s request to make IE8 the fastest browser available (not that you’re capable of doing it anyways).  I had several classic ASP sites that were crippled by your last efforts to make IE 7 faster.  It seems to be related to the way IE attempts to handle caching urls with query strings (ex: http://www.microsoft.com?ie7=joke).  The bug ends up hanging the browser and forces you to kill the process.  It doesn’t happen in IE6 or in any non-IE browser (except in FF if you choose to run as IE).

  32. Anonymous says:

    @larutan: I’m not aware of ANY caching regressions in IE7.  Please feel free to grab a capture (www.fiddlercap.com) and email it to me for analysis.  I’d love to have a look.

  33. Anonymous says:

    Matthew: rendering aside, security and bugs are some key differences between IE and its competitors. Some of these IE bugs (how it wouldn’t ask to save passwords anymore, the lack of ability to manage these passwords, the infamous "Untitled.bmp" bug, and so on) as well as security problems (home page changed or desktop background changed simply by visiting a site, and other JScript goodness) just ended up getting on my nerves, and made me switch to Firefox over 3 years ago.

  34. Anonymous says:

    @Mathew

    No offence but if you are not a web developer I think you have a very unhealthy obsession with web browsers.

  35. Anonymous says:

    – Two UI bugs found:

    1) The search box. When the right side of the window is hidden from the screen, and I type some words in the box, the lower pop up "auto complete(?)" box will shift left.

    2) There is a horizontal line next to the "Favorites Star" button when using "Show Only Icons"

    Screenshot:

    http://xs329.xs.to/xs329/08295/clipboard01682.png

    – A suggestion on the top menu bar, it is possible to accept clicking the favorites link with middle button (which will open as a new tab)? Currently this can be done on the left side panel’s favorites only.

  36. Anonymous says:

    Stifu– Clearly, you haven’t used IE in a while.  The security threats you’ve listed haven’t been a problem since XPSP2, released in 2004.

    wai– #1 That sounds like it’s an intentional feature, not a bug.

    #2 The line you are reporting is a vertical line, not a horizontal line.  It disappears if you turn off cleartype, which suggests this is part of a letter; perhaps the button title?

  37. Anonymous says:

    Ted: funny, because the last such incident I encountered was in 2005, on a fully patched IE6 on XP SP2.

    I got a nice porn desktop background I didn’t ask for, along with some big scrolling text, among other things. But maybe I took things the wrong way, and it was actually an IE feature to try and please me.

  38. Anonymous says:

    Stfu: Sounds like maybe somebody was visiting naughty websites and wasn’t running up-to-date plugins.  

  39. Anonymous says:

    lol… So it’s still not IE’s fault, but mine for going to a dangerous site, and my supposedly outdated plugins (doubt that has any connection, really, not to mention I tend to keep my stuff up to date).

    Don’t you think browsers could and should handle such issues properly, rather than trying to pin the blame on something else?

  40. Anonymous says:

    Gee, maybe there should be some sort of browser sandbox to protect you from buggy add-ons.  Hrm… Maybe they could call it "Protected Mode" and ship it as a part of a new OS that ensured that the protection goes all the way down to the kernel.  

    Oh, wait… they already did that for IE7 on Vista.  Oops.

    No other browser offers such protections.

  41. Anonymous says:

    Yeah, that totally makes IE7 the most secure browser out there, as serious studies show.

    And let me remind you you’re the one who decided my problem was plugin related. To me, it just sounded like yet another JavaScript (oh, sorry, "JScript") vulnerability.

  42. larutan says:

    @Ted

    Did you just tout how great IE7 is on Vista?  Who runs Vista?  This is exactly why Microsoft doesn’t belong in the browser business.  They gear EVERYTHING towards other MS crap for you to buy.  They don’t program to industry STANDARDS, they program to their own.  What Microsoft needs to understand is that GOOD web developers build sites so that they are as consistent as possible across the various browsers/OSs a user may be using.  REAL web developers don’t care what bells and whistles IE has if the other browsers don’t do the same.  If you really want to stop pissing developers off then stop making their lives a living hell.

  43. Anonymous says:

    Larutan asks…

    Q: "Who runs Vista?"

    A: 180 million people.  For those keeping score, that’s more than the combined marketshare of all non-IE browsers, combined.

    Food for thought.

  44. larutan says:

    @Ted

    I asked WHO runs Vista (which was really a rhetorical question anyways) not HOW MANY run Vista.  The correct answer was "Joe Public".  The consumer that buys whatever the store salesman tells them to. Since all new systems sold to the uninformed public are infected with Vista you get a lot of people with Vista.  

    I mean George W. Bush had the majority of people in his corner (in the second election).  Does that somehow imply that he is awesome?  Couldn’t it instead be true that the majority of Americans are uneducated idiots that didn’t understand what they were getting into?

    If you really want to know how awesome Vista is, then go ask system admins what version of Windows they have installed on workstations and why.

  45. larutan says:

    @EricLaw

    What’s your email so I can send you more info on my IE7 problem.

  46. Anonymous says:

    @Larutan: Send it to my alias at microsoft.com.  Thanks!

  47. Anonymous says:

    im tierd of having to install java features that all never use like additional languages how do i not install that option? any cmd install options for latest win ver. to not include this feature?

  48. Anonymous says:

    When will IE comply with the HTTP standard and identify the product as MSIE/7.0 and not Mozilla/4.0?

  49. Anonymous says:

    "180 million people.  For those keeping score, that’s more than the combined marketshare of all non-IE browsers, combined."

    No, that would be 180 million Vista licenses sold, which allows you to install XP instead. And since you can’t really buy an XP license anymore this is the only way to get XP.

    I’ve met very few people who actually used Vista and who didn’t go back to XP or switched to a Mac. The ones I’ve met who still use Vista got it with their PC and are the kind of people who really don’t care what OS they are running as long as they can read their e-mail.

    As for IE8, why doesn’t MS just give up and issue a patch that removes IE from the OS completely and replaces it with Firefox. IE is holding back the web, as far as I can tell from the limited information given by the IE team IE8 will be too litte, too late. Another pointless release and another incompatible browser for us to develop workarounds for.

    So instead of building a separate version for IE6 and IE7. We will now have to build separate versions for IE6,7 and 8.

  50. Anonymous says:

    A.M.: The "HTTP Standard" makes no such requirement.  As discussed here ad nauseum, making compatibility-breaking changes just for the sake of change is the stupid path toward irrelevance.  

  51. Anonymous says:

    @Aaargh: Exactly what percentage of that 180M have you "met"?  0.00005%?

    Only a tiny percentage of those with Vista licenses have installed XP, seeing as how a Vista license costs slightly more than an XP license.

  52. Anonymous says:

    Must be mentioned many times:

    1) Keep the push on security. That’s the top concern when using the past IEs.

    2) Add a spell checker to edit controls.

    3) Make the history as easy to use as FF, e.g. I can quickly get back the tab that I accidently close in FF. Bring those features to IE8, please.

    4) FF curbs its memory leak problems and has good memory footprint. IE8 should match that.

    5) A flash blocker would be handy.

    Those are my top 5. I’ll come back if I can think of more.

  53. sonicdoommario says:

    @Argh

    For one, there’s more to browsing the web than making everything perfect for developers. Maybe people like me wanna just….browse the web.

    Besides, there are some people who have never heard of Firefox. So what if someone installs the patch and finds out IE is missing? What if they are not computer intelligent as you may be?

    Honestly, I hate FF fanboys like you.

  54. Anonymous says:

    Ted: "Only a tiny percentage of those with Vista licenses have installed XP"

    Man, your credibility decreases with each of your posts. MS has great troubles pushing Vista, and everyone and their grand mother know that. I know you’re trying to defend Microsoft, but really… lighten up.

    sonicdoommario: you don’t need to be "computer intelligent" to use Firefox, average Joe can just do everything he’s used to do on IE with it. And if Firefox was actually the default browser on Windows, who cares if some people never heard about it? Everyone would simply use it whether they’ve heard of it or not, that’s really not a problem.

  55. Anonymous says:

    I installed IE8 beta and then uninstalled it. IE 7 does not work the same anymore. Even the Microsoft Live site refuses me because it thinks I’m using an unapproved browser. Windows update thinks my PC is a Mac now. Now I can’t even uninstall IE 7. I’m using Windows XP SP2. Please help.

  56. Anonymous says:

    Joe Mack: sounds like a user agent problem.

    Check what this tells you: http://www.useragent.org/

  57. Anonymous says:

    More and more these days, searching for a word on a website is becoming harder and harder to perform because you cannot even find where the "found text" selection is.

    Can we please have the search feature like in Safari?

    That would be an amazing must-have feature for all of us.

  58. Anonymous says:

    "As for IE8, why doesn’t MS just give up and issue a patch that removes IE from the OS completely and replaces it with Firefox."

    Because it’s a really dumb idea that would require a crap-load of work and appease a small number of users (and it would still break tons of software e.g. anything that uses WININET for instance)? If you don’t know the platform, don’t make suggestions and how things get developed on it. Your clearly over-reaching with your limited set of knowledge.

  59. larutan says:

    @Les

    "Removing IE would break anything that uses WININET"

    Not quite.  The only thing removing IE would break in WinINet is support for SOCKS type proxies.  Without IE, WinINet still recognizes CERN type proxies (HTTP) and TIS FTP proxies (FTP).  

    Besides, if Windows really couldn’t survive without IE then you could still keep it on the system but just hide it from the user.  Then just create a wrapper around Opera, FF or Safari, and slap an IE icon on it.

  60. Anonymous says:

    @larutan: I’m not sure exactly what led you to the conclusion that WinINET’s only dependency on IE is for SOCKS proxies, but you are mistaken.  WinINET has no particular dependency on other IE dlls for SOCKS proxies, but does have dependencies on other IE dlls for other reasons.

  61. Anonymous says:

    Stifu:

    "And if Firefox was actually the default browser on Windows,"

    Then it would have as many exploits as IE6. The reason IE6 and XP had so many exploits was because they had 90+ % usage share. If Firefox would have a 90% usage share, it would get exploits on a daily basis.

    IE7/8 is actually pretty good considering

    1) the amount of exploits it fixed/will fix

    2) the amount of rendering bugs it fixed/will fix

    3) doing both of the above without breaking compatibility with the x billion sites already on the net.

    Firefox and all other browsers are exempt from these, because

    1) no one writes exploits to a browser with a low market share

    2) no one cares about rendering bugs, since "lol IE" is the perfect scapegoat (even if its not the fault of IE).

    Firefox (and Opera for the matter) users are most of the time ridiculous fanboys as well, so the developers can shove down everything on their throats. They can just label it as "innovation" or "new feature", even if its batshit ridiculous (I heard they were trying to change the bookmark system into an SQL database).

    IE on the other hand will always fall short of expectations, because it has the bar way way way higher then any other browser.