May Chat with the IE Team on Thursday

Join members of the Internet Explorer team for an Expert Zone chat this Thursday, May 15th  at 10.00 PDT/17.00 UTC. These chats are a great opportunity to have your questions answered by members of the IE product team.

If you can’t join us online, all chat transcripts are published here. Allow approximately 7-10 days following a chat for the transcript to go live.

Hope you can join us on Thursday!

Kristen Kibble
Program Manager

Comments (42)

  1. We are still waiting for a clear, transparent answer says:

    From the chat:

    EricLaw [MSFT] (Expert):

    Q: The most voted for features is Opacity, but yet you closed it saying that you are not planning until a future version. Are you re-considering this, and what are your current thoughts on how to implement opacity? (filter or CSS3.0)

    A: Thanks for the feedback. Unfortunately, resolutions can be a bit misleading, you shouldn’t take them as a sign of our future plans. We don’t have anything to announce at this time, but stay tuned.

    yes, it is *VERY* misleading because there is no "fixed", "going to be fixed" or similar status… all issues appear to be closed with "by design"

    Read: completely and utterly useless status for anyone reading the IE Feedback Bug list.

    Now, what’s the story? is Opacity going to be in or out of IE8? – And if it is out, is the 0% opacity bug going to be fixed!?

    – Signed *EVERY* Web Developer

  2. DD says:

    I hope someone asks about the "operation aborted" browser bug, and demands it’s fixed on IE6, IE7 and IE8. By fixed, I mean dealt with PROPERLY, the same way Firefox does, by buffering the element add request.

  3. chaz says:

    I’m sure everyone is waiting for the question below to get answer. IE user has been waiting for IE updated for more than 6 months now.

    What’s the current target for l IE 8.0 general availability?

  4. gabe says:

    can we have an idea on when we will see a new ie8 build

    id like to get one that maybe ahs a few fixes nothing major (just a few regrsion fixes)would be nice

  5. Mike says:

    Q: Stop saying "we’re not ready to talk about features for upcoming releases" all the time and be more open about what you are considering to do.

    A: Hey Opaque, sorry for the frustration. We generally have a policy about commenting on features that are not built, tested and ready for release. Suppose that we did comment on a feature that was important to you, but then had to cut it because quality or some other blocking factor. If you had made business plans around that feature – I imagine that you would be pretty frustrated. Our policy gives our customers more predictability in their planning

    Does this make any sense to anyone ? Seems to me the current policy allows for no planning at all, as nothing is announced at all until it’s completely ready (i.e. acid 2 support). I just don’t see how can that possibly be better for anyone than giving advance notice of features, even with a caveat that some might not make it in. It must be possible to know fairly early in the development lifecycle which features are definite and which are just "maybes", why can’t we be told that ? Even other parts of Microsoft when faced with the same issue don’t seem half as secretive as the IE team. For instance the WinFS in Vista issue; it might be annoying that it was dropped in the end, but knowing what was going on was surely a lot better for everyone than if Microsoft had been entirely silent about Vista for the 6 years after the XP release. And WinFS is much more major issue for MS than, say, the state of opacity or SVG support in IE, yet it’s only the IE issues that have this opaqueness around them.

    The reason given above by MS just smacks of being an excuse to be secretive to me, and it makes these chats with the IE team seem kind of pointless. All the questions you might want answered are just fobbed off with "Thanks for the suggestion" or "Can’t comment on that at this time"

  6. Gary says:

    I totally agree with Mike.

    I would much rather have everything slapped with a maybe rather than a Closed By Design.

    Even if all the "maybe"s turn out to be "not enough time, sorry" at least they weren’t dropped right off the drawing board.

    As for the opacity issue.  Please just indicate that you will either (fix the current 0% opacity bug, or reinstate the alpha filter, or add CSS3 opacity)

    YOU DONT HAVE TO INDICATE WHICH!, just indicate that you don’t plan to leave it worse than un-implemented.

  7. Jeria says:

    Just looked at the last chat transcript from April 17. I guess you could sum up all question like this:

    Question: <insert your favorite question here>

    Which will result in either:

    . "We’ve definitely received requests for this! I’ll let the PM who works in this area know of your additional request 🙂 Thanks for the feedback!"


    . "We’re not ready to talk about features in upcoming releases of IE8 but we appreciate the feedback"

  8. Jeria says:

    This one has to be my favorite though:

    Q: Based on support for official Windows versions, when do you currently project full support for IE6 to stop?

    A: bye!


  9. Aaargh! says:

    "I guess you could sum up all question like this"

    Indeed, these chat sessions are completely useless if you are not planning to actually answer questions.

    "Allow approximately 7-10 days following a chat for the transcript to go live."

    Or, in reality, wait almost a month for them to show up.

    I probably won’t be able to join the chat due to the time etc (btw, does the chat even work on Safari/Mac ?) so here is my question:

    Q: How is the IE-team’s current rate of progress, since you are so enormously behind the other browser makers in terms of standards support, are you actually closing the distance and at what rate ? Do you ever see yourself catching up with the Gecko/Opera/WebKit teams and if not, what is the point of continuing development on Trident ?

    Q2: Did you ever consider using one of the other available engines (Gecko/WebKit) for IE instead of trying to drag Trident into the 21st century ?

  10. Ted says:

    Aaargh sez: "I’m a flamebait troll.  Why isn’t Microsoft paying any attention to people like me?"

    Maybe they’re building a web browser or something?

  11. fr says:

    Aarghs questions seem pefectly legitimate and interesting to me, especially the first.  Based on the first beta and the info we have, compared to the exisitng and beta releases from other browsers, it looks like IE is not really catching up at all.

  12. Aaargh! says:

    > "Maybe they’re building a web browser or something?"

    Based on the info they choose to share with the community (which is not a lot) they aren’t even trying.

    The other browsers got ACID3 compliance in less time than it took MS to post the chat transcripts of last months chat. I’d like nothing better than for IE to become a proper browser, I had to build my current employer’s website a while back, it wasn’t any fun thanks to IE.

    Currently MS is holding back the web because IE is so outdated. Microsoft being the biggest, most powerful software company in the world having the most resources at it’s disposal, I can’t decide the reason for holding back the web is malice or just too much bureaucracy. (I’m leaning towards the latter, given the whole 3-weeks-to-post-a-chat-transcript incident).

    If something that should take 10 seconds at most (go to chat client, press CTRL-A, CTRL-C, go to website CMS, press CTRL-V) takes 3 weeks, something is seriously wrong.

    So either Microsoft/IE-team is dying of manageritis or they intentionally keep IE so crappy because MS is afraid to loose their desktop OS monopoly if webapps become too powerful.

  13. Shaun says:

    I demand the IE team bring me cheese to go with this w(h)ine!!

  14. Vasil Dinkov says:

    I second Aaargh’s questions. Seriously.

  15. sonicdoommario says:

    Well, at this rate, IE6 will be dropped completely when XP exits extended support in 2014. 🙁

    I read the scripts too. Why didn’t we hear about any of these features until the Beta 1 was released? Before Beta 1 was released, all we found out was that Acid2 passed. Weren’t they more social about this with IE7 though?

  16. scandib says:

    So, I installed IE8 Beta. Now I’m trying to install a later version, but it won’t install unless I "remove the previous version", or so the message box says. But IE8 doesn’t show up in the Programs/Features list and I don’t see an Uninstall.exe in the folder. Any other options available?

  17. hAl says:

    Full support for IE6 in XP would likely disappear in 2009 as then full support for XP stops. Only extended support will last till 2014 including security patches.

  18. Derek Kent says:

    I’ll throw some more support behind Aaargh!’s questions, but add on to them a bit:

    Q: Did you ever consider simply using a wrapper to default to the old Trident engine in IE6/7 if the web site has an old/malformed/missing DOCTYPE (or opts in to using Trident), and just use a more modern engine like WebKit otherwise?

    Q2: What would be your arguments against this approach?

    Put your resources to better use, make a huge leap in advancement, and help out everyone else at the same time.

  19. Zero Day says:

    New zero-day security vulnerability for IE7/IE8b1 on XP. Unpatched.

    "As I said in a previous post, most of the local resources in Internet Explorer are now running in Internet Zone. Unfortunately, the printing local resource script is running in Local Machine Zone, which means that any injected script can execute arbitrary code on the user’s machine."

  20. Geld Lenen says:

    Good initiative. It’s a pity that I have to go now 🙁

  21. Mikro says:

    I asked about a refresh build IE 8 beta 2 will be out some time this year.

    Yep that helped huh.  

  22. Matt S. says:

    They’ve already said many times that Beta 2 will be out in June sometime.

  23. greg says:

    i guess i missed the chat.



    make the HTMLobject.prototype usable and useful.  Can you imagine how much cool stuff you could do with that?!

    also, the ability to define getter and setter functions.  (I realize you guys have this implemented in some fashion but frankly, its cumbersome and it sucks)

    firefox has a method that is STUPID SIMPLE:

    object.__defineGetter__("value", function(){return value;});

  24. Frank says:

    "They’ve already said many times that Beta 2 will be out in June sometime"

    No one from Microsoft has said that. Are you confused, or trolling?

  25. jiangsheng says:

    It seems the SoftwareUpdateMessageBox is not property displayed for some reason. Modal dialog boxes need to block interaction with the user. But before I close my IE I did not see the SoftwareUpdateMessageBox. Luckly I was debugging my BHO so here you go

    Debug output

    First-chance exception at 0x77e4bee7 (kernel32.dll) in iexplore.exe: 0x80010108: The object invoked has disconnected from its clients.

    First-chance exception at 0x77e4bee7 (kernel32.dll) in iexplore.exe: 0x80010108: The object invoked has disconnected from its clients.

    Unhandled exception at 0x77e4bee7 (kernel32.dll) in iexplore.exe: 0x80010108: The object invoked has disconnected from its clients.

    call stack

    > kernel32.dll!RaiseException()  + 0x3c bytes

    [Frames below may be incorrect and/or missing, no symbols loaded for kernel32.dll]

    ieframe.dll!OpenURL()  + 0x5d3f5 bytes

    ieframe.dll!SetQueryNetSessionCount()  + 0x23c3f bytes

    ieframe.dll!SoftwareUpdateMessageBox()  + 0x33d78 bytes

    ieframe.dll!SoftwareUpdateMessageBox()  + 0x33f7d bytes

    ieframe.dll!SoftwareUpdateMessageBox()  + 0x33eb6 bytes

    kernel32.dll!GetModuleHandleA()  + 0xdf bytes

    The debug dump is only 55k and I am not sure it  is useful or not. You can contact me at my blog  if you want the dump file.

  26. chrisdenman says:

    Hey, that was SHORT notice! I would have loved to attend the chat but 2 days in advice notification isn’t enough! Still, I look forward to seeing the transcript. How about posting it within the 7 days you promised this time, instead of waiting several weeks?

  27. Fake Bill Gates says:


    Thanks for your feedback, we might consider to think about your request in the future.

  28. Ted says:

    Zero Day: Protected mode mitigates the attack, and frankly, who’s going to visit an untrusted sites and go into the advanced print options and choose "print table of links"?

  29. Markus says:

    I completely agree with the opacity issue.

    If IE8 ships without some sort of opacity (ideally the CSS 3 version), that’ll break many sites unneccesaryly.

    While not perfect, opacity became a important part for the web and is one of the few CSS 3 items I highly recommend to implement and use.

  30. Fake Bill Gates says:


    We heard this request before, but can’t comment on future releases. Thank you for your feedback.

  31. elena says:

    this is much better than Mozilla 3 years ago.  However, I don’t know whether this is due to Mozilla implementing some of IE’s quirks, or the increasing amount of webdesigners adhereing to standards.

  32. Anphanax says:

    "also, the ability to define getter and setter functions.  (I realize you guys have this implemented in some fashion but frankly, its cumbersome and it sucks)"

    JScript supports defining getters and setters?

    "firefox has a method that is STUPID SIMPLE"

    If an object has properties to begin with, use the get/set keywords supported in object initializers ( Avoid the uglyness of unnecessary underscores. Or better yet, avoid proper properties altogether if IE doesn’t support them :).

  33. shilpa says:

    Yep Prior to Firefox 3.0, getter and setter are not supported for DOM Elements. Older versions of Firefox silently fail. If exceptions are needed for those, changing the prototype of HTMLElement (HTMLElement.prototype.__define[SG]etter__) and throwing an exception is a workaround.

    With Firefox 3.0, defining getter or setter on an already-defined property will throw an exception. The property has to be deleted beforehand, what is not the case for older versions of Firefox.

  34. WooHoo says:

    Only 3 days until the filtered and censored chat transcripts are posted! maybe?

    I missed the chat – Did they comment on Opacity, Prototyping, or possible ship dates of other Betas?

    All other content is of no interest to anyone.

  35. antonp says:

    Why on earth was this chat only advertised two days prior to the event?  It would be courteous to give a week’s notice.

  36. Kiwi says:

    Is there a link somewhere to the chat transcript? I cannot seem to find it!

  37. Since you guys are working on GUI improvements (improvements as in the hope that they will contain XP/IE6 customization and functionality) I would consider moving to Vista if Windows Explorer reverted back to XP. It’s 90% of the reason I will not upgrade to Vista as frankly it’s a downgrade.

    In XP Explorer I have back, forward, up, |, folders, search, |, cut, copy, paste, delete buttons all with text labels (you know, so I know what I’m clicking on) with the address bar just below (and of course the file menu at the top). In Vista I have to click on an organize menu…wait no cut/copy/paste/delete? Second action: physically move the mouse while holding the button down. Third action: let the mouse button go while hovering over cut. Fourth action: realize that achieved nothing and click a *second* time to cut. Four actions to cut via GUI in Vista to XP’s single click!

    If you guys fix Vista’s Windows Explorer then the last thing keeping me from upgrading to Vista is the My Documents folder. Seriously, why would I want to manually change every frigin folder in Vista (Music, Pictures, Videos, etc) when in XP I go to the my docs properties and change the entire location there! I *never* keep my personal files on the same drive as Windows.

    UAC and prefetech are two issues that *can* be dealt with. I’ve spent time looking at third party file managers and none of them can replicate the simplicity and usefulness of XP’s Explorer. Newer isn’t always better so please show me you guys can revert back to what works and *then* build upon it.

  38. Ted says:

    Off topic: "windows explorer related"

    As a developer I use the best power tools available for everything I do.  In my case I’m using Tortoise SVN for my file repository, which shows me an extra column in my details view (the one that everyone uses) in my Windows XP files view.

    Last time I checked, Vista decided to botch the whole file view with a per-file properties view at the bottom of the screen wasting tons of space.

    It doesn’t make me want to "upgrade" in the slightest to the "Vista Blues"… but it sure is shiny! 😉

    Too bad I don’t want shiny, cause if I did I would pay for a Vista upgrade. However since I need functionality over fluff, I’ll just have to hope that Windows 7 fixes this mess.

  39. Chris says:

    Just a heads up that the chat transcript has been uploaded:

  40. Mohit says:

    why alaexa toolbar is everywhere in explorer (when you open a folder or explore a folder) it should be only in internet explorer… is this a bug?


    Interessting that there’s no annocement or the like to be found here in the IE blog though.


    Freu"I wonder if a final of IE8 will be released before April 2009, the end of ‘normal’ support for Windows XP"di

  42. SiSL says:

    If that’s whats final IE8 to be like on rendering, I hope they better not release it…

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