MSXML5…Not in This IE

Some of you may have noticed the following goldbar on some websites: MSXML5 Gold Bar in IE7
Our friend Adam on the XML team recently posted on the XML Team’s Blog about MSXML versioning. It’s a great read and thoroughly explains the best practices for using MSXML. As we’ve posted previously, MSXML5 is not pre-approved as there are better options such as MSXML6 and IE’s native XMLHTTP control which you can use on your webpage. Users will need to approve MSXML5 before it can be used on your webpage.

Please help us give users a great experience by moving to the supported versions of MSXML!

sharon cohen
Program Manager

Comments (77)

  1. apostolos.tsakpinis says: has this problem since the early beta versions of IE7. I can’t believe none of these guys have noticed it until now.

    I find it really strange for big sites like not testing their pages with all the primary browsers. Many of these sites have issues that are very easy to fix.

    By the way, they are using the Sarissa library ( ) for handling XML. If it is related, somebody should inform those guys too.

  2. goose says:


    I’m a fan of all things starting with MS! Keep up the good work, Microsoft! Shame on developers for not following your lead!

  3. Fduch says:


    I really like that contrary to what some heretics are saying Microsoft has released the most stable and safe browser in the world. And it didn’t took them long. With all that new Program Managers they are furiously fast. The new IE7 can protect unsuspecting users from awful online scams and sites that try to crash their browser. They can prevent malicious add-ins such as notorious Adobe Flash 9 from exploiting users’ PCs.

    If used with the upcoming Windows Vista it provides even more protection for oyal Microsoft customers. The most important are Parental KonTroll, a feature that ensures that no more than 2% of sites potentially dangerous to children are loaded without timing-out. New "No! to Add-ins" mode will prevent add-ins from infecting user PCs while telling them that "This add-in performed illegal activity and should be killed". Another feature is "History wipe" that protects privacy. When your PC crashes IE7 wipes browsing History to prevent anyone from stealing it.

  4. IEBlog : MSXML5…Not in This IE Some of you may have noticed the following goldbar on some websites: Our friend Adam on the XML team recently posted on the XML Team’s Blog about MSXML versioning. It’s a great read and…

  5. Aedrin says:

    At first you made sense, and has some ideas.

    Then you started foaming at the mouth when you lost your documents.

    Now you’re just pulling bad trolls.

    You can do much better than that, Fduch.

  6. Steve says:


    Seeing that goose’s message of the day was so lame this time around, I wonder if Fduch’s message was actually goose’s?

    I wouldn’t be overly surprized considering the error messages I got today loading this Blog… the XML configuration was all messed up this morning.

  7. Steve says:

    If you right click, on the "go left" and "go right" tabs in IE7 (when there are more than about 6… (yes, thats a dig)… the context menu drops down with options that don’t make sense.

    The refresh doesn’t refresh, the new tab, doesn’t make a new tab, the refresh all, doesn’t refresh any, and closing this or the "other" tabs, doesn’t close any!

    Is there any chance that all these graphical glitches are going to be fixed in an upcomming patch?

    It looks very unpolished ATM.



  8. Aedrin says:


    goose’s messages have been consistent though. So at least he makes some ‘sense’.

  9. I’m getting exceedingly *sarcastic* vibes from comments in this blog, and it’s just getting worse every day. If straight reasoning is not getting ahead, sarcastic one most possibly won’t either.

    Be careful Fduch! You’re showing early symptoms of the terminal disease this goose guy has been suffering from. And don’t "Yeah right" me, no matter how much you see yourself far from the goose guy, if you persist in indulging in sarcasm you’ll get there buddy.

    (And be glad when people are criticizing you of being not on a par with your past. Bring that old-Fduch we knew)


  10. Thought of the day says:

    What makes you think Fduch and Goose aren’t really the same person?  If someone bothers to post rants to the blog every day, why not do it as two different personas?

  11. UnexpectedBill says:

    Well…it is true. You learn something new every day.

    I didn’t know that the information bar could also be referred to as a "goldbar". Quite honestly, the "goldbar" term sounds a lot nicer and is quicker to say. 🙂

  12. Fduch says:

    No, I’m not goose. Cannot prove it, but who cares.

    >You can do much better than that, Fduch.

    The question is WHAT can I do.

    I feel guilty for the state of IE7 as I see it. I’m the part of the mess.

    I was tester. I did everything I could to make it good (different people have different meaning for "good"). And then not so suddenly (Vista coming) it was released.

    I feel that I failed to do the tester’s job and to bring IE7 to the stability and perfomance mark I desired.

    So I’m sad.

  13. Greg says:

    Javascript and Java are probally not safer than MSXML5.  If I’m browsing, why should IE run java or javascript from

  14. random_n says:

    While not running javascripts from third party domains would be a nice feature, I think Microsoft has every reason to not touch a thing with Java… well, it’s only one reason, but it’s a good one learned through an unfortunate experience.

  15. jonh says:

    Explorer 7 doesn’t work with many Hewlett-Packard products such as HP Director which will not open if you have exporer 7 intalled leaving you unable to use scaners or other diveces from your computer. If you have a HP computer or Products i strongly advise you not to intall it it’ll cause far more problem than its worth…

  16. Steve says:

    @Greg,random_n: re: "Javascript and Java"

    I think it is real important, not to mix these two technologies together. Other than the syntax, and the first 4 letters of their names, they are totally different technologies.

    JavaScript (or ECMAScript if you want to be technical) is a language for interacting with the content of your page only.  Scope wise, it knows as much as the browser will tell it (e.g. OS, Browser version, Screen size, Color depth) but nothing else.

    JavaScript does not have access to the end-users file system, nor any dialogs other than alert(), confirm(), prompt()*, find(), print(), and "addBookmark()"**

    *prompt() doesn’t work in IE7 anymore, if not called directly via user action (bug was tracked in Feedback, but Feedback is down now)

    **The naming of this dialog differs across browsers, but they all do the same thing.

    So, technology wise, JavaScript is safe, by design.  There shouldn’t be any danger in using it, other than some goof that thinks an endless loop will be funny.

    The issues in the past with JavaScript, have been with the implementation.  IE allows JavaScript to call Active-X… although I get shivers just thinking about this, the IE team has blogged here many times indicating that they have locked down access to the "higher rights" stuff, so that if your friend trys to launch a nasty Active-X, you, as the end user would get prompted with dialog(s) about such, before it executed.

    That all said, there is one exception that I’m aware of.  IE6 and IE7 will allow the automatic download of unwanted content (read: virus) under some conditions. It won’t execute, but your virus checker will pick it up right away.  I would post the URL (it was in Feedback, on a site "promising M S Office cra cks" (spaced to keep the IE Blog Spam engine away)) but I don’t think it would be "responsible".  Although I do hope that the IE team is working at blocking this kind of security hole.

    There are a significant number of sites these days, that depend on javascript, (Digg, GMail, Windows Live, and any site doing AJAX or client side validation (read: almost every site))  As a result, turning off, or blocking JavaScript would be the demise of the ‘Net as we know it.

    As far as the third party script suggestion? well, that won’t fly from MS Corporate, because that’s how most online ads are run… you insert a snippet of JS that runs on their end, to pull up the appropriate ad.

    If you are *really* conserned about 3rd party JavaScripts, you can install Greasemonkey (or whatever the IE equivelant is), and tell it to block any scripts not originating from this domain.


  17. Steve says:

    @Fduch, re: "I feel guilty for the state of IE7 as I see it. I’m the part of the mess."

    I hear ya.  I too spent hundreds of hours finding, reporting, and verifying dozens and dozens of bugs in IE7 (betas and RC). None were fixed, and I doubt (m)any saw the light of a developers eyes.

    I do trully hope that Feedback (or a much better system) does get resurected soon.  Its need is painfully obvious, and I want to be part of the solution.

    Waiting (im)patiently for Feedback(2)…


  18. AnonL says:

    Pushing developers towards using new things is the first step to deprecate those obsolete code-bases (and eventually getting rid of them in coming versions). IE definitely can use a little housekeeping any day.

    @Fduch : "The question is WHAT can I do?"

    I believe you already know the answer to that question. I’m going to point out some hints for this one:

    What should you *not* to do:

    *Don’t* feel guilty first of all. You should actually feel more like a victim other than anything but it’s a good thing that you don’t. Last thing we need is another *dissatisfied* customer with their sappy "M$ is evil and its rival is from Providence" stuff.

    *Don’t* consider IE7 as the ultimate appeasement for all shortcomings IE6 has brought upon us. IE7 is just a sign that they are back to pick up where they left off five years ago. IE7 is not a finale to conclude all IE versions in browsers history of all times.

    *Don’t* imagine you have to deal with IE7 bugs for another 5 years. If IE7 is as unstable as you described and causing more troubles than its predecessor, they will surely release an update or IE7.5 as soon as humanly possible.

    IE7 is more like a "Hi! We are back!" (And dodge a few angry tomatoes and possibly other sloppy fruits) kinda message. And I think they did a pretty good job of announcing it with this version. (I not quite sure about the dodging part; Last time I checked Chris Wilson weblog he was wiping squashed tomatoes off his comments board with his "What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger" coveralls on. I guess it was inevitable).

    And finally *don’t* give up on IE! Report bugs as much as you’re seeing them not being fixed! (I hope they setup an easier way for bug reports). And now is the most fertile time for new ideas. Personally I kept all my dreams and hopes for IE8 when I saw their badly tight schedule for IE7 month ago.

    I’ve been exhausting my remaining optimism on this IE8 lately. I hope they don’t let me down this time.

    Thank you.

  19. AnonL says:

    Good spirit Steve! Keep it up.

  20. dear  sir, put  back  way  i  had,  for  i  can  compose   messages.  this  is  not  working  the  way  theURL  is. thank -you

  21. Adam says:

    I am using Internet Explorer 7 on Limited

    Account. where can i find the temporary Internet Files folder or where does Internet Explorer 7 store the temporary internet Files Folder. The Temporarily internet files folder is not visible on Limited account at all when looking at Window Explorer. Yes i have show hidden files and folders selected.

    on Limited Account I’ve look on this folder and can not find the temporary internet files for Internet Explorer 7.

    C:Documents and SettingsSAKingsLocal Settings

    C:Documents and SettingsJEAA4Local SettingsTemp

    I can easily see the temporary internet files when log in with Adam which is a Administrator account on this location C:Documents and SettingsAdamLocal SettingsTemp

    which is administrator account.

  22. laura says:

    I am having difficulties downloading The Internet Explorer 7 – I have followed all the steps correctly but when I reach the end, it says "Downloading Updates for Windows Internet Explorer 7" and this little box hes a bright green arrow pointing down. The problem is that it has been "downloading" for the past hour and nothing ever happens. Please help me with this.

  23. Leiam says:

    Why isn’t IE7 being downloaded from an FTP server?

  24. Soum says:

    This is not related to XML parsing, rather IE’s proxy support. Is there any way to store the username/pwd for a proxy that needs one, so that I am not asked on every startup?

  25. Browser user says:

    I used IE7 to go to a website that wanted to install the Flash 9 ActiveX control (actually, I went to several) and then got tired of it asking me to install one when I didn’t want to every time I hit certain web pages, so I looked in help to see how to turn it off.  Now here’s the confusing part:

    Apparently, to disable information bar prompting, you have to *enable* automatic prompting for several different types of prompts in the security settings property sheet.  I tried one, and indeed, I was no longer prompted.  But why do you *enable* automatic prompting to *disable* prompts from the information bar?  This option doesn’t *appear* (so far) to actually enable another form of prompting (and if it did, it would be really annoying – you should just be able to say no once and never be bothered again.  Sites shouldn’t harass you into installing plug-ins you don’t want.

  26. Baowoulf says:

    What’s so bad with Adobe Flash Player 9? I’ve always had the flash player on my computer.

  27. m.h. says:

    Oh, not again, please…..

    Why can’t you guys make it backward-compatible? I’ve heard a lot about MSXML-related problems from my development team before and it seems to me that the nightmare will return soon.

  28. Baowoulf says:

    Will the new browser help with encoding problems like

    Lavasoft Ad-aware Â

    or is this because of Hotmail? Not sure if Live Mail will finally support Unicode (UTF-8). So many times I get email with weird symbols and such.

  29. d77e says:

    i have uninstall IE7 and keep with IE6 and FF 2.0

    i will try IE7 next year. 🙂

  30. says:

    Quick story:

    This weekend I was doing emergency tech support, because extended family members installed IE7 after receiving windows update message*.

    Long story short, IE7 install failed, uninstall failed, plenty of BSOD, and no Internet connectivity.

    Upon inspection, an uninstalled (previously) Norton Anti-virus was present on the system.  As soon as I heard/saw this, the horror stories on this Blog came flooding to mind.

    Since Norton, and HP Director, and ?!?!?! software, interferes CRITICALLY with the install of IE7, can you PLEASE change the install instructions/steps, to _NOT_ "ask", or "suggest", or "recommend" that a user disable said software, but rather, PHYSICALLY BLOCK the install, until this software is disabled (e.g. "REQUIRED")

    My job is _NOT_ tech support, and I don’t plan on spending early November doing Tech Support for everyone I know.

    Unless of course Microsoft is footing the bill, in which case.

    2.5 hours @ $100 USD/hour

    My current total bill: $250 USD.

    Once November is over, I’ll send the revised bill.



    *I’m not entirely sure this is exactly what happened (as I believe IE7 AU hasn’t started yet), but I wouldn’t be surprised considering the situation.  They also had the Yahoo toolbar, which prominantly displays the IE7 update link ("Optimized^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HPre-pwn3d for Yahoo")

  31. says:

    Just a follow up… if for some reason finding some info on the various problems with incompatible software is not known or difficult:

    Norton crashes:

    HP crashes:

    I’d link to the search on this Blog, but as we all know, it doesn’t work. 🙁

  32. says:

    Another UI glitch.

    If you have say, 57+ tabs open, the dropdown list beside the quicktabs tab, only shows a portion of the tabs open. (limits to 24).

    e.g. if I have 53 tabs open, it shows me all of them in the drop down (with scrolling). However, if I have 57 tabs open, I only see 24 of them.

  33. Aedrin says:

    "2.5 hours @ $100 USD/hour"

    That’s a little bit expensive, don’t you think? I don’t know what kind of tech support you do normally. But I wouldn’t mind getting employed there.

    By the way, is it such a horrible experience to help out family members? It is a well known fact that anyone with some technical computer knowledge will be freely used by family members. And I feel that is fine, because the amount of money some of the companies charge is ridiculous. It is a similar situation to car repair. The client doesn’t know much about it so they get charged for every small thing they find.

  34. says:

    Woah! another UI glitch!

    Open a bunch of your favorite websites… maybe your bank, youtube, yahoo, google, msn, msdn, digg, importantsite1, your blog, hotmail, etc.

    now, right click on your current tab and click refresh.

    OK, no problem, refreshes your tab.

    Now, do the right click again, but pretend this time, you weren’t so accurate with your click, and you click the "Close Other Tabs" option.

    Whamo! All your precious edits, sites, gone!

    This action, should be just like the close, on the browser itself with multiple tabs open.  It should prompt with the "Do you want to close all tabs?" options.

    Fairly important since there isn’t an "undo close tabs" option.

  35. Thomas Tallyce says:

    > If you have say, 57+ tabs open

    Oh, come on.. that’s not exactly a highly realistic situation is it..

    Sure, there may be a bug, but surely there are more important things for the IE team to have dealt with than support for 57+ tabs ..

  36. says:


    Well, considering it was a Sunday, on-site, advanced tech support (Dell couldn’t figure it out from their end), yeah, $100USD is bang on.

    As for helping out family members, sure, I have no problem doing it.  Once in a blue moon, as needed.  But the more I do it, and help them with email woes, virus troubles, browser troubles etc. I end up finding the quickest, easiest solution for now, and the future.

    I’ll give you a hint at what solves their browser problems. Its a 7 letter word, starts with "F" and ends with "irefox".

    Oddly enough, with that solution in place, I don’t get the tech support calls.

    Makes you wonder where the "problem" lies, doesn’t it?

    For now, based on the hassle I’ve experienced first hand, my "opinion" if anyone asks… is  don’t install it (yet).  Wait till 2-4 weeks after the smoke has cleared, and the patches are out, then let it install.

    For such an important piece of the PC experience, I find it very strange to have to resort to this type of advice.

    C’est la vie.

  37. says:

    @Thomas Tallyce

    Yes, not exactly a major, major issue, but just one more to add to the list.  Since IE Feedback is down, the only place to track bugs in IE7, is on this Blog.

  38. Aedrin says:

    Another thing about your ‘story’:

    "an uninstalled (previously) Norton Anti-virus was present on the system"

    If it was uninstalled, how did it ‘interfere critically’?

    "email woes, virus troubles, browser troubles"

    I fail to understand how E-mail and Virus problems come from browser choice. Most viruses come from downloading files (hence having an anti-virus program), and e-mail just doesn’t even remotely connect with it.

    "Makes you wonder where the "problem" lies, doesn’t it?"

    I’ve installed IE7’s various betas and the final release with Norton AntiVirus active, and have had 0 problems. So yes, do tell me where the problem lies… (PEBKAC anyone?)

  39. Arieta says:

    speaking of flash and glitches.

    In the past, I had *.swf files associated with IE6. That way, I could watch any saved swf files I had easily. However, in IE7 (from beta 2 upwards to the final release), I get an error for about half of the swf files I have.

    This also happens when I just paste a .swf url into the address bar, one which is hosted on the net natively.

    I have both "allow active content to run from My Computer" options enabled, and I’m using the latest flash plugin from adobe. Half the swfs work fine, but half of them give an error…

  40. Fiery Kitsune says:

    There are plenty of times that IE’s behavior scares the crap out of me…

  41. says:


    I think you’re stringing unrelated items into the same context.

    As per the uninstalled Norton?… yes it was uninstalled, but left some "shared" contents, of which included an exe that was left running on system startup. (logging in as admin, and purging it, did solve most of the issues.

    This is however, not the first issue I have had with Norton, and installing IE7, and as indicated from this Blog, and the various IE Chats, and the IE Feedback site, I’m not the only one.

    My thought on this, was quite simply, if MS knows, that there is a significant potential for issues, with this software running, why subject the user to potential havoc, when you can avoid it.

    Regarding email, spyware and virus woes, these are all typical, of the "tech support" requests, that I (and other technical people) get from friends & family.  When they got their PC, they had no protection, and somewhere between XPSP1, Email, and Internet Explorer, they got infestations.

    Since malware, has only 2 methods of installing on a PC… 1.) Security hole, or 2.) User unknowingly/accidentally granting permission, avoiding the use of Internet Explorer (v6) obviously improved things dramatically.

    Without vectors like Active-X or VB Script, or other "tight" tie-ins to the OS, it is often harder to "get caught" by mischievous software.

    On the PCs where I have installed Firefox, those users haven’t had the problems that they had in the past.  Was it purely the browser, or in combination with education? I don’t know, but it does make you wonder, where the problem lies (hence the comment)

    BKAC? Quite possibly.  But if the importance of security is placed solely on the end user, you are asking an awful lot.

    My big point, in all of this, is that I’m a techy, I can solve these issues… but if Grandma upgrades to IE7, and her (insert potentially incompatible software) is resident, problems may arise.  My personal feeling, is if the developers, can make the "experience" of installing this better, then they should make an effort to do so.

    I’m not trying to troll.  I want the web to be a better, safer place… but if MS doesn’t get any feedback, then they may be in the dark as to the extent of the issues, thats all.

  42. says:

    Okay, hopefully the last one for today, but this one just got me baffled.

    If I right click in the address bar, or the search bar, I get 2 options for which I have no clue what they are about.

    1.) Open IME  (and then Close IME, if you Open it)

    2.) Reconversion

    Now, if this is some cool new feature, I want in!… but I don’t get what it is, or even what it is for.  Nothing "appears" to happen when you open or close the IME?

    Any chance of a Blog Topic? or is this a bug?

  43. says:

    (must stop suggesting this is the last one… there is always one more 😉

    Anyone else notice, that if in your Tab settings, if you set the checkbox to open a new tab, next to the current tab, that it doesn’t work?

    This is the behaviour I prefer for tabs, but yet I can’t get it to work?

    All new tabs get created at the end. (CTRL+T), right-click -> new tab, and clicking the new tab button.

  44. Bob says:

    Anyone notice this new behavior?:

    When you have more than one active tab, left-click on one of them and drag left or right; you can now swap tabs around. This was not possible in any of the pre-release versions I used.  Very cool.  Also hit F11, and wait a few secs. Nice, Eh?  Need it back?  move your mouse to the top of the screen–just like a taskbar.  Want it all fixed in place again?  Hit F11. Sort of dies an end-run around the complaint that the new window design takes up too much space.  It actually takes up NO space at all, if yo merely invoke the EffEleven.

  45. AC says:


    "I’ll give you a hint at what solves their browser problems. Its a 7 letter word, starts with "F" and ends with "irefox"."

    Then why are you complaining about helping out family members here? You’ve already solved their browser problems, and this is a browser blog.

  46. PatriotB says:

    steve_web — The setting regarding tabs affects tabs opened by middle-clicking links on the current page, or right-clicking and choosing Open in New Tab.  It doesn’t affect creating new blank tabs.

    The check box’s wording doesn’t really make this distinction clear.  Makes me miss the context-sensitive help that dialog boxes all used to have, where you could get this kind of extra clarifying information with a right click.

  47. PatriotB says:

    m.h. — this blog posting is specifically about MSXML 5.0 not being usable (by default) in IE.  No web developer (internet or intranet) should ever have built anything on top of MSXML5, since it was 1) only distributed with Office 2003 and 2) not intended for any development outside Office-specific development.

  48. Nathan says:

    This is one of the most retarded things I’ve read today.  You people put out MSXML5, it’s signed by Microsoft, yet just to force people to use MSXML6 you’re going to break pages that use MSXML5 until people specifically allow the control.  

    If I didn’t hate firefox zellots so damn much, boneheaded things like this would push me in that direction.

  49. x2zen says:

    Please…. get rid of the stupid balloon tip when you turn off anti-phishing

    It’s really annoying

    And why does my IE chrash every time I visit ?

  50. PatriotB says:

    Nathan, did you read what I said about MSXML5?  Actually you probably didn’t since it looks like you posted your comment at exactly the same time I did 🙂

    MSXML5 was never released to the general developer community.  For better or worse, it was developed especially for Office 2003 and it’s been made clear that it is not for external use.

    The fact is, MSXML5 offered few features over MSXML4.  Any web pages that use MSXML5 (despite being told not to) aren’t gaining anything.  In fact, most pages should use MSXML 3.0 since it is the most widely-installed version.  (3.0 comes with XP, whereas 4.0 is only a separate download.  6.0 will come with Vista and is also available for separate download.)

  51. says:


    Regarding the new tab options… if the behaviour you describe, is the intended behaviour, then the BUG I would like to submit, is that it doesn’t work if you open the new tab any other way.

    Consistency is very important in an application, and this is one area that needs work.

    In the 3+ years I’ve played with tabs, I’ve always wanted to open the new tab, next to the current. This option should be available, and it should be for all new tabs, regardless of how they were created.

  52. says:

    When invoking print preview, some sites take a looooong time to render… can the hourglass be shown here such that it doesn’t look like the browser has crashed?  I thought the preview was broken on a few pages, until I discovered it just needed another 5-10 seconds.

    Another bug.

    PS I also noticed, that Locking and Unlocking the toolbars (via right click on the chrome) often (like 95%) causes an additional row of empty chrome below the tabs (same height as a tab row)

    Happens with small and large icons.

  53. Fduch says:

    this site is good. It takes 100% of my CPU

  54. Aedrin says:

    "And why does my IE chrash every time I visit ?"

    Try visiting it with FireFox. It might not crash but it eats up the browser’s CPU time. That’s pretty bad. Then again, there are a few thousand validation errors.

  55. says:

    K, next few quirks.


    On a page with a background behind some content (e.g. a div)…

    Right-click > "Copy Background"

    Uhm, yeah, so like what is it supposed to do? It doesn’t copy it to the clipboard…

    #2) As a web developer, one of the most handy tools I have, is right-click > View Image or right-click > View background Image.  Neither of these features are available in IE7.  Is there an extension that will add them?

    #3) right-click > Save Image.  In my settings, since… 1995? I have set windows to ALWAYS show me the file extension, because it is important.  In the dialog above, the file extension is not displayed. (contradicts my settings) This works fine in all other browsers.

    #4) right-click > Email picture.  There is no option to "always" email the original size, or at least "remember" that I do not want to resize it.

    #5) right-click > Email picture.  The options to resize appear, even if the image is an icon (e.g. less that 50×50, thus not needing a resize.)  Can this not be enhanced to better determine the {{possible}} need to scale?

    #6) Set as Background.  There is no confirmation for this action, nor is there options to center, tile, or stretch the image.  The default is stretch, which usually creates the worst image (between center and stretch).

    #7) RSS/Feed discovery.  On pages that have RSS feeds, how come there is no indicator that the site supports RSS, and better yet, gives no simple options to subscribe, or point to my application for RSS?

    e.g. will provide a nice RSS feed, for all digg articles about IE7.  In firefox, you just click in the location bar, and choose what you want to subscribe to.

  56. says:

    Still finding lots of sites that just choke completely in IE7.

    just dies saying it can’t display the page.

    Ditto with __ANY__ page, that has an iframe, where the src of the iframe points to an unknown protocol.

    I think this will cause lots of problems for any site that accidentally generates an invalid  protocol.

    e.g. save this as test.html

    <p>Hello World</p>

    <blockquote>This page will display in any browser, except IE7</blockquote>

    <iframe src="web://"></iframe>

  57. Aedrin says:

    "I think this will cause lots of problems for any site that accidentally generates an invalid  protocol."

    Besides the fact that I think you have a little bit too much time on your hands, I think it needs to be clear that you can’t account for everything.

    There’s 2 groups of people. One group says that IE is bloated with legacy code and that it allows too many inconsistent things.

    The other group says that every website should work, no matter how horrible the source code.

    Now I can see that group #1 has a valid point. Bloated with legacy code slows everyone down and is a bad thing. IE is somewhat in the middle, in that it is slowly getting rid of legacy code but there is still a good amount resident.

    The second group has no valid point at all. When you develop a website, you should ensure that you do not put errors in it. If you do this, even "accidentally" (as you put it), you’re wasting effort and time. And you also ruin the internet.

    If a link/iframe specifies a protocol, that is what should be used. If this one doesn’t exist (no matter how logical it may seem), then this is the problem of the website’s owner.

    …No wonder the web is such a mess.

  58. says:


    The trick is, there is an underlying… security? thought here (not issue, just a, hmmmm)

    If I host a site, and I use (insert 3rd party name here) for advertizing and some revenue, there is a fairly good chance it will be nested in an iframe on my page, often generated via JavaScript.

    Now, if this party, (now we are talking beyond my control), nests an iframe, if *they* mess up the protocol, then *my* site does not display!

    I just think that _NOT_ showing *my* site, because my 3rd party advertiser messed up their code (which was nicely contained in a iframe, that *should* have no XSS capabilities to mess up my site, is not the best approach.

    Other browsers simply:

    a.) ignore the content

    b.) alert the user that protocol abc:// is not valid

    c.) show some sort of page not found, inside the iframe

  59. Baowoulf says:

    IE7 is still coming out to Windows/Microsoft update tomorrow right?

    I know I can download it off but I always get my updates through Microsoft Update so I’ll just wait for that.

  60. AC says:


    "Now, if this party, (now we are talking beyond my control), nests an iframe, if *they* mess up the protocol, then *my* site does not display!"

    Then contact them and have them correct their mistakes. Or opt to not use them because of said mistakes.

  61. Fiery Kitsune says:

    After using IE7 for almost a week now, I can safely say that the IE Team over-hyped the superficial security and web standard changes made from IE6. They however were able to masterfully conceal this with a pretty new interface.

    BTW IE Team, I found it rather easy to do a first-party (no third-party software) interface that enables the IE7 Vista theme for XP. You might want to lock that down.

  62. Fiery Kitsune says:

    I meant to say "interface hack"…

  63. xfile says:

    Why Microsoft choose to shoot itself in head with IE 7 installation?

    Well, it’s not about if IE 7 is a good browser or not, and in many ways, it is.

    And I had no problems for installation on two systems with extra preparations and using it for many common tasks.  

    But I’m puzzled by why MS paid so little attentions to providing people with more accurate installation procedures and preparations.  

    If anyone cares to pay a visit to IE general newsgroup, one would find almost over 50% of problems are associated with installation.  

    And the fact is IE 7’s installation is much more complicated than one would have anticipated, so without proper preparations, one is mostly likely to fail or have conflicts after reboot.

    I’d suggest the following:

    (1)make IE available from Automatic Update but “advice” people to download it to the local folder and perform installation from the local folder

    (2) make it a “headline” for advising people to close ALL applications and shut down anti-virus programs (and stop auto-start option) before installations

    (3)if verification for WGA can be done without connecting to Internet (which seems to be the case), advise people to disconnect from Internet and shut down firewall all together,

    (4)If you have time for modifying installer, better to have it check if any anti-virus programs are still running during the installation.

    If you don’t make those corrections, it is almost certain that this installation process will eventually kill your reputation and you’re actually helping people moving to other browsers.

    Good luck.

  64. Baowoulf says:

    I download IE7 through Microsoft Update and I like it a lot but how the heck do I turn off Cleartype? I don’t like this option and I can’t seem to find an easy way to get back to the same page as when I first installed which asked me about saving my default search engine, cleartype, phishing filter and that microsoft program.

    I have found everything so far except the cleartype thing so any help is appreicated. I want to turn the dang thing off.

  65. Fduch says:

    search this blog and you’ll find the answer

  66. FirstTimeAround says:

    Despite regularly lurking on this blog, and therefore being forewarned, my first encounter with IE has still brought up a few oddities..

    1. I never realised how much I’d miss the menu till I couldn’t see it anymore.  Watching someone less experienced using it is almost painful.  They can’t find any of the old familiar options.  The new "Page" button just confuses them, though they did work out the new "Tools" => "Internet Options" in the end.  It doesn’t help that by default, the "Help" menu seems to be hidden off screen and only accessible by the >> chevrons.

    2. The menus themselves seem to behave inconsistently. On some websites (with shortcut-keys setup I guess?) holding ALT+E doesn’t open the Edit menu.  You have to tap ALT then press E.  Tapping ALT then pressing ALT+E (which I keep on doing – Agh!) closes the menu-bar and doesn’t open anything!  It seems odd that the page is allowed to override browser behaviour!?.

    3. I found the history popup from the back/forward buttons, but there seems to be no way to open one of these pages in a new tab. No amount of middle-clicking, dragging or anything else seemed to do it.

    4. Opening the history sidebar (while still on my quest to open a history-page in a new tab) I accidently middle-clicked the ‘domain’ folder instead of an actual page – this opened 4 new tabs titled "Connecting…" (presumably to load the 4 actual pages), but all these tabs promptly closed themselves down without showing anything – very useful.

    5. Right-clicking on any of the back/forward/refresh buttons opens the title-bar menu (move, resize, etc).  Stranger still, if you choose "Move" from this window, you can only actually move the screen by clicking on the actual title-bar

    6. My home-page is a plain page of links on my own computer.  The first time I clicked "Home", the info bar appeared warning me of scripts/active-x trying to run… There are no scripts/active-x objects on this page at all, it’s just plain HTML!

    When I clicked the bar and allowed the page to use these non-existent scripts/active-x IE presumably added it to a white-list somewhere but I can’t find any record it in the security options (local intranet/restricted/etc) – where is this stored?  Is "My Computer" a (hidden) security level?

    7. I must’ve moved the mouse to the top left a million times already looking for the "Home" and "Refresh" buttons.

    8. I can’t decide if I like ClearType or not.  On some websites it seems fine, on others it’s almost painful to read – The jury is still out.

    9. Some good news, the CSS improvements seem to work pretty well so far, and I’ve only noticed a couple of minor quirks!

  67. Jeremy says:

    Well folks, the IE7 AU Critical Update roll-outs have started!

    I hereby declare this "tech support week!"

    Oh that coffee better be fresh tomorrow.

  68. xfile says:

    One final note knowing you guys won’t appreciate, but just trying to save you for one more time.  

    Below is quoted from your own MVP’s advice, and the original one can be found from here:

    My questions for you to think:

    (1) How many people would know this before they start to install?

    (2) Does it sound more like installing a service pack than a browser?

    (3)Will people be willing to install IE 7 when they’ve been “advised” to read this first?

    (4)Asking people for removing ZA?  Come on, you should provide them with a better approach (such as at least stop the services and auto-start option).

    (5)Potential conflicts are not only from ZA but also from various versions of other firewall.

    Even at this time, your own “experts” still insisting people not to disconnect from Internet, and is it absolutely necessary?

    You guys can keep sitting there arrogantly and doing nothing.  What a nice experience just before the arrival of Vista!

    ————– From the above link –

    Before installing IE7

    Best practice is to:

    The first thing to do is READ THE RELEASE NOTES.   There are known issues and you may save yourself hours of grief if you make sure you are informed before you install IE7.

    Set a restore point (just in case)

    Turn off Automatic Updates (believe me, you’ll thank me later if you’ve already installed an IE7 beta or RC build)

    Disable protect software such as antivirus, antispyware and crash guards.


    Shut down all running programmes – that includes Messenger, Windows Defender, and OneCare – don’t forget to check the systray icons as well.

    If you are running ZoneAlarm 6.5, disconnect from the internet, uninstall ZoneAlarm, make sure Windows Firewall is enabled, reconnect to the internet then install IE7.  This is because ZA stops the IE installer from writing to essential registry keys, causing the installation to fail.

    IE7 Gold’s installer runs various registry permission checks before installation starts to minimise the risk of aborted/damaged installs, but there is no guarantee that the installer will pick up everything. It is best to ensure that problematic software that may block access to the registry be disabled.

    If you still see registry permission problems, please check out the advice here:

    [OPTIONAL]  Go to HKEY_Current_User, Software, Microsoft, InternetExplorer.  Make sure the DWORD InstalledByUser exists and that it is set to 0.  I’ll admit to not being 100% certain about the need for this DWORD to exist.  IE7RC1 installations failed if the DWORD was not there, but the installer also delets the DWORD after installation of RC1 is successfully completed.  You won’t find it on a standard RC1 installation, but at the same time, the existence of the key is not known to cause a problem.  When the missing DWORD has caused an installation failure, all that happens is the install rolls back, you see the failure window, and a shortcut is dumped on your desktop.  So, if you wish, you can try adding the DWORD if you have a mysterious installation failure that you have trouble finding a cause for.

    Install Internet Explorer 7.  Reboot *twice* before running your new Web browser for the first time.

    Don’t forget to re-enable your antivirus, automatic updates and other protective software now that you’re finished.

    Do not reinstall any version of Microsoft Windows in any way after you install Internet Explorer 7. Do not upgrade Windows in place or upgrade to a new edition.  You must uninstall IE7 and reboot twice before attempting to repair, reinstall or upgrade Windows:;en-us;917964

    Note that the uninstall directory is generally at c:windowsie7spunist

    The bug that broke IE6 when a repair install of Windows was completed with IE7 installed has, apparently, been fixed, but it is still strongly recommended that IE7 be uninstalled first.

    —– End Quote

  69. Baowoulf says:

    I just searched the blog. The only thing I came up with was an internet control panel from IE6 not 7.

    I do know in the Multimedia section it has an open to. Always use ClearType for HTML*. This option atm is checked.

    I just don’t like messing with this panel unless I’m totally sure. That is why I asked. Plus it also requires a restart.

  70. Arieta says:

    It only requires a restart of the browser, not your whole system…

  71. rc says:

    Do you know how many of Microsoft staff use IE 7 as their default browser (at home, etc.)? Conclusion is obvious. 🙂

  72. Baowoulf says:

    I never said whole computer. I just don’t like messing around with those options since I never really have before. That’s why I was asking in here if that was the option or not. Why does everyone seem to take such offense at someone asking for help?

    Anyways thankyou for your help.

  73. Aedrin says:


    I believe that post is aimed at professional users in corporate environments. In such cases it benefits everyone if they are given specific information to ensure that the computers do not break down.

    "(2) Does it sound more like installing a service pack than a browser?"

    IE is a part of the OS so you could consider it a service pack actually.

    "from your own MVP"

    I believe this means that they did some kind of certification. It doesn’t mean they are employed at Microsoft.

    MVP = Microsoft Valued Professional

    "(4)Asking people for removing ZA?"

    Isn’t it ridiculous that they have to ask people to remove ZA? Automatically people will look badly upon IE for that requirement. But don’t you think that ZA should be allowing IE to be installed? Maybe the fault is in ZA itself?


    "Why does everyone seem to take such offense at someone asking for help?"

    Because most people come in here and wrongly blame IE for everything. That leaves everyone with a bad taste in their mouth, so when someone asks a question that could be taken as commenting on IE, then you get that kind of answer..

  74. Baowoulf says:

    If they got that impression I’m sorry. I wasn’t trying to badmouth IE. I just didn’t like the option and wanted to know how to turn it off is all.

  75. xfile says:


    I know what is MVP, and know they are no employeed by MS, or did I imply in anyway. But they got "certificate" from MS, and in many ways, people treat them (as they also wish to) as "autorized" source for technical solutions.

    I know it’s part of OS, that’s why I made extra preparations and had no problem.

    Question is – Most people don’t know and don’t even expect a reboot.

    For ZA, keep blaming others, but installer could have a check on that as well?  What about a roll-back feature for installation failure?

    I guess no, since so many people can’t use neither browser.

    You can have "it’s all others’ faults" attitude, let’s see how users will react on that.

    Again, I have no problems for installing and using IE7 and I even kind of like it.

    But I will ban any installation in our office, and have no hesitation to suggest others for doing the same.

    Good luck.

  76. xfile says:


    For many its supporters, you can’t question or even have any doubt about its products, or you are badmouthing the company.

    Don’t you see the pattern already?

  77. wolf friend says:

    ya that clear type thing is quite horrible. thank god we can turn it off.

    by the way, did MS not test clear type text over a PNG image with alpha transparency?  was it meant to look that bad, or was this just not tested?

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