Transcript for October Expert Chat – Best Turnout to Date


Hey all,

The transcript for the October Expert chat is now available. Many thanks to all who attended our final chat for IE7.  We intend to keep this going after IE7 ships so stay tuned 🙂

Cheers,

Uche Enuha
Program Manager

Comments (29)

  1. Anonymous says:

    a bit too vanilla for my taste.

  2. Anonymous says:

    From the chat..

    ‘Dave Massy (Moderator):

    Q: Hi. Do you plan to support the CSS property: opacity from the upcoming CSS3: http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-color/#transparency It is already supported by Firefox and Opera. IE6 uses the propritary filter……Alpha.

    A: It’s something we’ll be looking into for a future release of IE. Your feedback along with scenarios as to why a particular feature is going to be useful will help us prioritise that work.’

    Real simple. Because it is in the spec!  Having to deviate for just IE is a pain, especially when it works just fine, as documented in other browsers.

  3. Anonymous says:

    "Tony Chor [MS] (Expert):

    Q: Follow-up to Q152: Increasing screen real-estate is good… however, with the new layout, I cannot combine the address bar and tool-icons all into a single bar like I currently do with IE6. Also, not having the "standard" menu causes a lot of confusion.

    A: You can turn on classic menus permanently if you like. We know we need to add more customizability to the command area after IE7."

    Woah, woah, woah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Are you serious!?!? Of course we want this, where the *ell is this undocumented feature! We’ve been complaining about this since the very first non-public beta!

  4. Anonymous says:

    Omar: I think you might have misunderstood the answer about showing the menu bar.  

    Simply right-click on the toolbar and place a checkmark next to "Menu bar" to disable the auto-hide behavior.  

    If you’d like to force the menu bar to the top, see the Tweaks section at http://enhanceie.com/ie/tweaks.asp for a registry script that does this.

  5. Anonymous says:

    There were lots of questions posted to the experts during the chat, that were _not_ answered during the chat, and do not appear in the chat transcript.

    Will they be answered before IE7 goes live?

  6. Anonymous says:

    "Uche[MSFT] (Expert):

    Q: Will there be any IE7 launch promo like for IE4? Any MSN live alerts we can subscribe to to be notified when it ships?

    A: you can subscribe to our blog at blogs.msdn.com/ie and we will be posting when IE7 is available on there"

    It made me stop and think why MS wouldn’t spend a little cash on a tv/web/cinema advertising campaign. I’m serious, there are new adverisements for Genuine Windows software, why not IE7? Conisdering how much of an impact this program will have for so called "free software." Many people I deal with as an ISP technical support agent don’t even know what a blog is, let alone an RSS feed.

    "Max Stevens [MSFT] (Expert):

    Q: I understand that I can use Virtual PC to test in IE6 but do I not need another Windows license to be able to install XP in the virtual machine?

    A: Yes, that is the case."

    This may be the most unacceptable answer I have seen on this blog by far. Web designers and developers should not be penalized by forcing to purchase another license (or licenses) just to be able to use what will/has become legacy browsers.

  7. Anonymous says:

    "A: you can subscribe to our blog at blogs.msdn.com/ie and we will be posting when IE7 is available on there""

    I thought we weren’t going to get the option to do stuff like this until IE7?

  8. Anonymous says:

    Nice!!

    – Steven Burda, MBA

    http://www.linkedin.com/in/burda

    e-mail: steven.burda.mba @gmail.com

    Also:

    http://www.homepage.villanova.edu/steven.burda/

  9. Anonymous says:

    "Max Stevens [MSFT] (Expert):

    Q: I understand that I can use Virtual PC to test in IE6 but do I not need another Windows license to be able to install XP in the virtual machine?

    A: Yes, that is the case."

    At last is official: IE7 is the most expensive browser of those available, you need to pay once to use IE6 and another one if you want to properly test in IE7 at the same time.

    Congrats MS.

  10. Anonymous says:

    oooops!!!

    There are many different things in this script compare with the original chatting script.

  11. Anonymous says:

    Really, the transcript differs noticeably from I’ve read during the live chat. Unfortunately, I have not saved the session. 🙁 Does anybody have a REAL transcript?

  12. Anonymous says:

    @rc

    In what way does it differ ?

    And does the difference add anything to the transscript ?

  13. Anonymous says:

    There are many different things in this script from the original chatting script.

    in original chatting,

    1. ie7 will be released 18th October.

    2. The other languages’ edition(except english editiom) will be released at the same time (18th October).

    3. Auto update is scheduled 1st November.

  14. Anonymous says:

    @EricLaw, IE team

    >The CONNECT database will be closing at RTM.

    I do not think it is advisable to turn the connect databse off after RTM. It is likely that there are still bugs or suggestions after the final release that users/developers would like to be able to report (and track) efficiently and free of charge.

    Bug reporting is very essential from a software quality point of view. Please do not make the old MSFT mistake by making bug reporting hard to find, tedious or even worse to charge for it (like for "Product support").

  15. Anonymous says:

    >Is there an addon for IE7, to fix the location of the menubar (not the registry hack), and the command bar, and the stop/reload icons.

    Not directly, but you may try my navigation/search toolbar, Quero:

    http://www.quero.at/

  16. Anonymous says:

    I have a copy of the transcript (unformated) 😉

    I will post a link to it here, if folks are interested, and MSFT does not comment first.

    PS I’ve noticed in the past few days, that trying to do anything, in IE7, with 50+ tabs open causes all kinds of rendering, and execution gliches.  Will this be fixed for final? and if not, can the number of tabs that can be created be capped at 49 until this is solved?

  17. Anonymous says:

    OMG!

    I haven’t installed it, but that screen shot is worth a thousand words! (or bug fixes!)

    http://www.quero.at/

    Back/Forward/Reload/Stop icons – All in the correct place!

    So rediculously simple! yet so frustratingly abscent in all the Betas/RC’s.

    …and built in adblock!… Someone wake me up, cause I have got to be dreaming.

    The 6 month wait is finally over! Congrats Quero! on making this browser useable again!

  18. Anonymous says:

    Oh man, so much praise for this addon… (Quero)

    Finally, double-clicking in the address bar, highlights that piece of text, not the whole address… such a simple thing, but so painful when abscent.

    Reload where it is supposed to go!… A Web Developers dream!

    Man I think I’m going to have to take up smoking… this is too good.

  19. Anonymous says:

    Thanks for the feedback, Steve.

    >Man I think I’m going to have to take up smoking… this is too good.

    LOL, this would be the best user testimonial I have ever heard 😉

  20. Anonymous says:

    I have to agree with Viktor on:

    "@EricLaw, IE team

    >The CONNECT database will be closing at RTM.

    I do not think it is advisable to turn the connect databse off after RTM. "

    I totally agree. I have over 75 bugs (+Counting) that I have submitted, and ~70 of them are still active, and in need of a fix.

    Closing the Connect database, would be a blatent attempt to try and sweep issues under the rug.

    If desired, at RTM, Close, and flag all bugs as "Pending Investigation in future IE7/(IE8 Beta) releases". This way, if an issue is still unresolved and buggy in IE7.x or IE8 Alpha/Beta, we can re-open the applicable bugs.

    I DO NOT want to waste SEVERAL HOURS/DAYS, re-entering KNOWN BUGS in the system, it is totally counter-productive, and will turn off users from assisting with your bug tracking/fixing, if all their hard work is thrown out the window.

    We all know, that the following is horribly broken.  We shouldn’t have to re-enter this in a later build.

    (copy this into a file and save as test.html and load in MSIE6/MSIE7 (yeah, this has been broken for over 5 years)

    <b>Load in other browsers, to see how this SHOULD look</b>

    <br/>

    <input type="button" value="Fine"/>

    <input type="button" value="Perfect"/>

    <input type="button" value="Padding and Rendering is Flawed"/>

  21. Anonymous says:

    "Web designers and developers should not be penalized by…"

    Web designers and developers should not be penalized by people refusing to upgrade. But what can you do?

    Making IE work with multiple versions isn’t as simple as changing a boolean in the code. As is obvious with all the "tricks" out there to run side by side versions, there are a lot of stability issues because IE is part of the OS.

    For all these supposed web developers, they sure seem a lot not like developers. Then again, HTML is not a programming language, it is a markup language. So "developer" is the wrong word. Designer is more like it. Now it all makes sense.

  22. Anonymous says:

    @ sara kim

    > 1. ie7 will be released 18th October.

    > 2. The other languages’ edition(except

    > english editiom) will be released at the

    > same time (18th October).

    > 3. Auto update is scheduled 1st November.

    I’m calling you on that one.  No such thing’s were ever said.  Absolute rubbish.  All through the chat the IE team NEVER commited to an actual release date.

  23. Anonymous says:

    @ Steve

    > Back/Forward/Reload/Stop icons – All in the

    > correct place!

    Correct place?  What is there a piece of international legislation dictating where these buttons go?

    To be honest the reload & stop buttons make perfect sense to be at the end of the address bar – they kind of relate to actions after you have entered an address.

    > Reload where it is supposed to go!… A Web Developers dream!

    Why does it matter to web developers?  I assume it’s so you can easily refresh a page to see your edits?  Perhaps…..  So why not just hit F5?  

  24. Rup says:

    "EricLaw[MSFT] (Expert):

    Q: will IE7 be integrate able in the windows source itself?

    A: I’m not sure I understand the question? Can you elaborate?"

    "Dave Massy (Moderator):

    Q: is it possible to slip stream IE 7 into an xp installation?

    A: IE7 installs on Windows XP. What exactly do you mean by slipstream?"

    I think what they both meant was: will it be possible to modify an XP installation CD image so that computers installed from it will have IE7 already without a separate IE7 installation step?

  25. Anonymous says:

    Interesting chat session. Thanks for posting.

    Regards,

    Keith Knutsson

  26. Anonymous says:

    @MSFT:

    Will security issue: 225925 be fixed for the final?

    @Bert

    Ok, you may not feel that they need to be moved, but I can tell you from the pool of people I’ve talked to about/shown this, all 55+ people have agreed, they are in the wrong spot.

    I also concur, that it is more of a Developer issue, than an end user issue.

    As a developer, you will constantly be reloading, and hard-reloading (shift/ctrl + reload) a page, to ensure that no JavaScript is getting cached by the browser etc.

    As a power user, with a 1600×1200 screen size (or bigger), those reload/stop icons are way off to the right of anything I care about. (e.g. a short url like http://www.digg.com/ )

    As a UI person, I just feel this is wrong.  My navigation for back/foreward is on the left (UI designers will tell you, that top left is the ideal location for this stuff) now, my back(0), forward(0), and !back() and !forward() {pseudo navigation methods} are separated by approximately 17" on my screen. This is just plain awkward.

    Imagine if when you clicked the start button, to stop the menus cascading, you have to click in the upper right corner.  Thats what is currently happening.

    Try going back 2 pages… and accidentally clicking 3 pages back.  Can you press the stop button easily? no.

    As for being at the end… how often do you fill the address bar? most URL’s don’t go that far, so even then, after typing, and pressing enter, they are still not in reach.

    Anyway, I digress.  Now there’s a fix.  (Well, an extension that fixes the issue)

  27. Anonymous says:

    "Making IE work with multiple versions isn’t as simple as changing a boolean in the code. As is obvious with all the "tricks" out there to run side by side versions, there are a lot of stability issues because IE is part of the OS.

    For all these supposed web developers, they sure seem a lot not like developers. Then again, HTML is not a programming language, it is a markup language. So "developer" is the wrong word. Designer is more like it. Now it all makes sense." – Aedrin

    I was expecting an answer from you considering the number of times you have criticized designers for use CSS hacks to make IE perform according to proper standards.

    Sarcasm aside not all web designers (or developers) have access to corporate level funds. You are of course correct that it is not simple to have side by side installs. However a free MS provided emulator would work well. Or perhaps a free standalone Virtual PC that includes all the functionality required for all IE browsers including a locked down OS to prevent additional software installation for example.

    If a seperate OS installation is required for each browser, then a tool needs to be developed instead. One that will run all the browsers in a MS supported manner which allow sites to render correctly without requiring us to use "tricks" that may affect rendering capability. I would even considering purchasing such a tool as a one time fee if a single installation supports all IE browsers.

    "At last is official: IE7 is the most expensive browser of those available, you need to pay once to use IE6 and another one if you want to properly test in IE7 at the same time.

    Congrats MS." – Alfonso

    Otherwise Alfonso is correct.

  28. Anonymous says:

    I love to learn from the EXPERTS! Nice chat!!

  29. Anonymous says:

    @Steve: Calling 225925 a "security issue" requires significant imagination.  

    The Denial of service to the IE process requires that the user be enticed to choose the "Print target" option on a script link, which does not seem to be a very plausible scenario.  The "attacker" has no control.