IE July Chat Transcript Online

The transcript from the July 13th chat is now available online. The response to Beta 3 has been great and people are overall happy with the recent improvements. There were a bunch of us and we enjoyed answering the stream of questions as they poured in.

You can find our chat schedule at . We typically hold the IE chats on the second Thursday of every month. Keep sending us your feedback and see you at the next chat!

Uche Enuha
Program Manager

Comments (43)

  1. Steve says:

    Funny, the first question about everyones favorite memory leak… the URL apparently didn’t work?

    works fine for me:

  2. Steve says:

    I missed the chat unfortunately, but wanted to ask:

    Will the final / next beta of IE7, fix the rendering of the file dialog, and the quick tabs to _NOT_ use the Windows 95 GUI?

    It may seem like a cheesy point, but it makes IE7 look like an old application, when it hasn’t even gone final yet.

    (and yeah, like always, these bugs are in Feedback… have been there for weeks or months)

  3. Rick says:

    Re: (From the chat…)

    "Q: I have Ubuntu downloaded as an iso image to my desktop and want to be able to install it on virtual pc, i think i have the virtual machine set up, but i dont know how to install Ubuntu from the iso image

    A: what is Ubuntu?"

    You’re joking right?… the user is using Windows for his dev environment, but wants to test on Ubuntu (a popular Linux disto… if you seriously don’t know)

    Since installing IE7 is tied to the OS… I think questions around VM’s are _very_ important.  While supporting IE6, there is no way that many of us can install IE7 until it has gone public, been tested, and has a track record that IT dept’s will accept.

    Anyway, when talking about IE, we are often talking about the web, and development of web based sites, and applications.

    I think the tone, of the IE team, needs to be a bit more supportive of the fact that MAC users use the Internet too, as do UNIX and LINUX users… and that although IE holds the largest market share of users… it is an open playground and everyone is allowed to participate.

    same goes for all the comments in the chat, where users are directed to submit a feedback item… thats cool, but if the users just notified _YOU_ of the issue, _YOU_ should take some responsibility to track it yourself first, since your team(s) will have much more knowledge of where the issue resides, whose responsible for it, and if it is an easy/hard/critical issue… and any of the dependencies.

    Getting tired of the games.

  4. Someone says:

    Yeah, it’s like asking about potatoes in a math class, no? 🙂

  5. mors says:

    I don’t understand why everyone is so concerned with the tabs, when IE7 CSS and DOM support is still minimal… !

    This forces developer to spend double their time developing applications, one using standards, another coded for IE !

    Now with IE7, IE will recover again a bit of its market share, and IE will be forgotten for another 5 years, because it makes MS no revenue. !

  6. Derek says:

    @ Someone

    I think you are missing the point. Yes the comment may have been slightly off topic, but one of two things was shown by the response.

    A. ) MS is so seriously navel gazing that they don’t know about other OS’s and browsers.


    B. ) MS is trying to play silly, and ignore anything non MS out there. (eG linux, firefox, yada yada)

    So the question is, which is it?

    Is MS:

    A. ) Extremely Naive, and behind the times.


    B. ) So childish, that they have to play games rather than answer the questions.

    like mors said. Enough with the tiny tweaks in the chrome, fix the browser rendering engine, that’s the piece thats broken, that is driving us mad.  We cant innovate until MS catches up.


    Sr. Design Lead

  7. Jim says:

    Looking for some commitment dates.


    We keep hearing about "this feature will be in a future release" we will look into "abc" in the future.

    Can you please do a blog post, on when (roadmap) you plan to implement all the missing features and fix the major bugs we keep bringing up, that you keep telling us, will _NOT_ be in, or fixed in IE7.

    1] A proper, built in, JavaScript console.

    2] Find as you type, in page searching.

    3] Bookmark organizing support.

    4] All CSS features/selectors that are not currently supported

    5] Printing fixes

    6] Multiple selection private data clearing (e.g. cookies, cache, saved passwords… Clear)

    7] Toolbars for IE browser, to not show in Exploring (e.g. MSN toolbar)

    8] Full support for PNG (e.g the correct colors)

    9] JavaScript 1.5, 1.6, 1.7, ???

    10] Full W3C DOM Event handling support

    11] Full W3C DOM Mutation support

    12] Full W3C DOM getElementById() support (e.g. *not* matching on name attributes)

    13] The INFAMOUS BUTTON ELEMENT!!! value attribute is what *should always* be submitted

    14] JavaScript dialogs.  All look very imature.

    15] A browser built in option to set what editor opens when doing a view-source.  Its obvious now, that IE has no plans to do something nice with this, just dumping it to notepad.  At least make it easy for all of us to bounce this to our favorite text editor, so the code can be easily viewed, and syntax highlighted

    16] DOM attribute namespaces (proper support, not concatination)

    17] SVG (native)

    18] The other Button bug! [-S-T-R-E-T-C-H-]. Surely this just makes IE look like an eternal Beta program.  If IE was open source, I would bet this would have been fixed within a day of the first visual occurance of the glitch.

    19] Scrollbars, on things that don’t need em. Every other browser manages to do just fine with this. When is IE going to wake up and remove them when not needed (on textareas, select-multiples, frames, windows, etc.)



  8. EricLaw [MSFT] says:

    @Steve: Sorry– The scrollbar in quicktabs was fixed, but it’s unlikely that we will update the file upload dialog to be themed on XP.  (It’s already themed on Vista). The vast majority of users don’t see this dialog even once a day, and would prefer that we concentrate on higher visibility UI.

    @Rick & Derek: I think it’s safe to say that visiting an IE chat and asking for help with Virtual PC isn’t guaranteed to get you the answer you need.

    Everyone’s got their interests and areas of expertise.  IE has lots of different folks who have experience on probably every OS & browser combo in existence, but that’s not to say that every IE team member personally knows every competitor to every product that Microsoft makes.

  9. EricLaw [MSFT] says:

    @Jim: I’m not sure I understand your issue #7?  

    Are you saying that you see the MSN Toolbar in Windows Explorer, and you don’t want to?  Is there a reason that you don’t just turn it off in Windows Explorer and leave it on in IE?

    As for #15, you can set the View Source editor using a single registry key– and many popular editors like EditPadPro already set it.  See for more info.

  10. Drew says:

    When one clicks the new "read mail" button, it opens hotmail/live mail/whatever in a new window.

    I tried setting it so all windows open in tabs, but it still opens a new window. I don’t like having all windows open in tabs anyway, but it would be nice if when I’m wanting to check my e-mail I don’t have to have a brand new windows just for that.

  11. Luca says:

    Download URL display: please add full selectable ( means select and copy ) URL of the download file. This is useful as one can select the File URL and use some other download manager in case of bigger files.

  12. Greetings again,

    My concern is still about memory usage.

    Just check it out how "Maxthon" uses memory with 12 tabs on IE7 beta 3 engine, just using 10 mb’s of RAM while IE7 beta 3, with their own engine, using 70 mb’s in 1 tab. Just curious where is this 60 mb’s being used in IE7.

  13. wesley says:


    This may have already been reported so apologies if I am repeating it.

    When the browser is in full screen mode (F11) and one tries to access the address bar (using CTRL+d), although one is able to type in a URL and have it loaded, focus is not given to the bar at all (so you don’t know what you are typing).

    Is this intentional?

  14. LOL @ "What is Ubuntu"

    There seems to be a race-to-answer-the-question.  That doesn’t lead to meaningful answers.  Ubuntu is a very searchable word.

  15. PH says:

    Its just not going to work for me until they fix the broken drag&drop on the favorites menu, and that silly expanded folder tree when adding new ones.

  16. hAl says:

    See here for a nice first head tot head comparison of



    Opera 9.0


    IE7 show itself to be a reasonably competative browser in this comparison with Opera edging out both IE7 and FF.

    Because you are possibly still performencetuning the performancepart of the test is also fairly interesting where IE7 seems decent but not really great in its performance.,1697,1990855,00.asp

  17. marc says:


    >>Wednesday, July 19, 2006 11:35 PM

    >>by EricLaw >>[MSFT]

    >>@Jim: I’m not sure I understand your issue #7? …  

    do you understand the 17 remaining items?

    can you tell us something about them ?

  18. EricLaw [MSFT] says:

    @Drew: Unfortunately, due to how the Hotmail integration works with the Read Mail button, it’s not clear that we’ll be able to make it work in a new tab.  I’ll look into this and get back to you.

    @Luca: Can’t you right-click the link and choose Copy Shortcut?

    @Wesley: The fact that ALT+D works in fullscreen mode without showing the bar is a bug, although many full-screen "power users" consider it a feature.  I don’t think there are any plans to fix this for IE7.

    @Maurits: Yes, there is a bit of a race to answer questions.  Remember, it’s a chat, not a blog or another forum where there’s the expectation of a delay between question and answer.

  19. steve c says:

    @marc, @jim, @eric

    #7 is likely the bug, whereby many of the add on toolbars, don’t flag themselves as a "web toolbar" verses an "exploring" toolbar, thus, we end up with toolbars like the MSN toolbar (at least in IE6 that I recall), showing up when I browse my "C:Drive".  I’m guessing that 99% of it, isn’t relivant to using Exploring, thus it shouldn’t even be visible there (by default)

    As marc said though… what about all the other bugs?… when will we see/hear the roadmap of when these will get fixed?

    @eric (re open dialog)

    I have to admit, this is sad.  Can we at least get an explanation as to why it doesn’t call the internal "Windows" core file dialog?  It already drives us nuts, that MS Office doesn’t use the default one (esp. since there was _NO_ gain what-so-ever from diverting)

    Oh, and since the Vista one does work… is it the real OS dialog? or a mutation again?

    And if you have any pull, with the OS folks, can you tell them that we want to be able to add "places" to the places bar. (yeah, we all have TweakUI, but I’m talking about adding my top 10 development directories… not _just_ 5 locations.

    Hate to admit this one, but the Linux folks got this one right… you right click on the "places" bar, and you can add/delete places to your hearts content… and then EVERY application re-uses the same dialog, or extends from it.

    Oh, and for my top bugs, in Jims list:

    PNG colors fixed? will this be in IE8?

    JS console? IE8?

    and for no. 15, yes, a registry key is all very good, but hardly user-friendly. It should be an option in the options dialog.

  20. Mike G says:

    Still a very clunky browser – very sad that you chose not to offer the patch/program ($NtUninstallie7beta2$) to help out those who had (accidentally) or otherwise deleted it and had no way back to 6… thoughtless really, but then we should have guessed that from you guys. Especially when you made us download WGA as critical (hidden) update without telling us (er.. illegal in any language I think)- but us Brits have some sense, a number of court cases are coming your way – one customer is already suing for “fraudulent misrepresentation, offences under the Computer Misuse Act, and criminal damage”

    We can still see though the hokum ; hey ho back to Mac OSX and Firefox


    I’m still watching

  21. Drew says:

    geez, mike? a bit harsh?

  22. Fduch says:

    My PC sometimes crashes while woeking (or because of blackouts).

    After rebooting:

    -Word: I saved copy of your document. Want me to restore it?

    -Visual Studio: Fortunately we autosaved your solution. Here it is.

    -Maxthon (browser): You were browsing these sites. I can open all of them all or you can select only those you need.

    -IE7: I trashed your session. Enjoy.

  23. PatriotB says:

    Fduch — Maxthon’s approach is nice, as long as it asks you before opening them.  The last thing that you want is to be at some malicious site that crashes your browser (or add-on), and for that site to automatically be started when you re-open IE.

  24. PatriotB says:

    Steve c — about that Open dialog box…

    It seems that if you open a fresh IE, with a single tab, then it will show the XP themes properly.  If you then open a second tab and invoke that dialog via that tab, it won’t be themed.  It would be nice if they would fix it, but I agree that it is less important than the other things they’re probably working on.

    It is *not* using a custom Open dialog box like Office.  It is calling the standard open box.  The only difference is that it’s not being themed; it’s still the same code.  It’s probably an issue with activation contexts.

    Re: Vista… The Vista file dialogs are quite customizable; I heard somewhere that one of the requirements of the dialogs were that they had to be able to fit the needs of Office.  Indeed, on Vista, Office 2007 uses the Windows file dialogs.  (Yay!)

    I believe that the Places bar on Vista can be customized across the board as well.

  25. PatriotB says:

    "Hate to admit this one, but the Linux folks got this one right… you right click on the "places" bar, and you can add/delete places to your hearts content… and then EVERY application re-uses the same dialog, or extends from it."

    Well… as long as EVERY application uses that particular widget/UI library.  I highly doubt that the Linux kernel includes, and mandates the use of, a file dialog box.

  26. EricLaw [MSFT] says:

    @steve c: As PatriotB noted, XP is showing the system file open dialog, but the theming flag isn’t set correctly.  It’s a pretty trivial issue.  It sounds like you must be doing lots of file uploads, which makes me wonder if you have other suggestions (a la your "Places" one) on how to make this scenario better.

    @Drew: Re: Hotmail issue.  I’m afraid that we won’t be able to get the Hotmail button to open in a new tab rather than a new window.  It’s unfortunate, but it’s a limitation in the legacy Hotmail library that we didn’t really touch this time around.  Have you had a chance to try the new Windows Live Mail Desktop beta?

    @Fduch: I agree– there’s definitely an opportunity to have a cool "recover my session" feature.  I’m planning to write one as a sample extension.

  27. steve c says:

    @PatriotB (and the MS Office team)

    I have a round of free cold beers (or hot coffee for the non drinkers) dedicated to the developer(s) that fixed the MS Office File dialog box, and the Places Bar!!!

    Thank you V-E-E-E-E-E-E-R-R-R-R-R-R-Y much!

    Now, _THAT_ is innovation!… taking something that sucked royally, and making it useful!

    @Eric Law…

    I guess my point is, is that if it is (as you said) "A trivial issue" that the flag isn’t being set, then I think a 30 second code fix and check-in is in order… heck, it can probably be done 1 handed while sipping coffee.

    As for making it better?… all I know, is that the dialog, is for users to pick a file.  It should be as _SIMPLE_ as possible.

    Do I store my files in the "My Documents" directory? No. Like most, I have a data structure, where files are stored (or a dev environment (for us techies)).

    So for me, I want to pick a file, from one of 4 locations typically.

    1.) My "Data" directory, e.g. "D:Data"

    2.) My "Dev" directory, e.g. "C:dev"

    3.) My "App" directory, e.g. "C:Program Files"

    4.) My "downloads" directory, e.g. "D:DataDownlaods"

    All I want, is a universal way of quickly getting into those locations. (and if the Vista dialog fixes this, with editable places, then hats off! problem solved)

    The next issue, with this dialog, is an odd one.

    The "look in" drop down, *would* be very handy, if it actually worked properly.

    If you open up this dialog, and choose "recent" from the drop down, you effectively "hang" the dialog (and the launching application), while the dialog attempts to retrieve the content.

    Now, if the dialog, pressented a message… "collecting recent files…" and added them to the dialog, as soon as each one is found, then this wouldn’t be an issue.

    Likewise, if you pick the "A:" drive (std. 3.5" floppy), you will halt the system for 5 seconds, while it tries to find the disk. This is fine if one is actually wanting this, but it is very easy to accidentally pick this, when trying to pick the "C:" drive (e.g. if you pick a few pixels too high, when trying to reach the C drive.

    Can the OS, not do a "very" quick check, for the presence of a disk first, then, and only then, attempt to scan/read from it?

    This may be a moot point in the future, since I don’t expect my new PC’s from here in, to have a floppy.

    That said, ditto goes to CD & DVD drives… if there is no disk, return in an instant, rather than grind away…

    The last thing, is for all options in the dialog.  There needs to be more "hooks", in the checking process, to "listen" for cancelation, or change requests…

    E.g. If I click on "my network" by mistake, and I try to click somewhere else, I can’t because the system is trying to scan the network.  If the hook was there, on a say… 100 – 250ms cycle, to listen for a cancel action (or another selection), then I could bail out of it.

    I’ve linked to an image here (IE6, but i think IE7 has the same issues on XP)

    Anyway, I’m rambling now… thanks for the work thus far!

  28. steve c says:


    another screenshot… which shows the uber cool… XP themes in the open dialog, in a non-XP themed dialog.

    looks very strange when you type in your file path…

  29. steve c says:

    oh, and the losing label thing… only happens in IE, not in any other app, that uses the "real" dialog.

    Thus, I’m not convinced that it is "just a theme issue".

  30. Luca says:

    @ EricLaw [MSFT]

    Right click of a link is not good always because the link url may be different by effective file download url (example: the files on Microsoft Download center).

    So it’s very important that the effective download url can be selected/copied from the download window.

  31. Bruce says:

    In the transcript the experts refer to specific questions (i.e.)

    RE: Q67 — So to confirm…

    Maybe you could number the questions so you don’t have to count them?

  32. Fduch says:


    Funny, the first question about everyones favorite memory leak… the URL apparently didn’t work?

    works fine for me:


    Just after chat the /strangely started working for them/

    And they closed that bug with "by Design".

    So we all now  have clear ansewer: "Yes IE7 is designed to make your all system unstable and crash other apps."

    URL for the closed bug:

  33. Fletch says:


    "All your base are belong to us!" huh… oh well.

    All I know right now, is that Beta3 is not stable enough for deployment at all.  I’m not sure how much of it they can fix before the next/final? release, but I certainly hope they start squashing these bugs.

  34. great site with good look and information…i like it

  35. tester says:

    have used it few weeks


    1. when view in tabs, loading big pages(lot’s of pic download), then click other tabs…the odds to hanging is HIGH!

    2. the go button often replace by refresh button, then click it , the address reset to last successful connected addresss. its a chaos to ie6 users.

    3. some compatible issues.

    4. tabs mode performance is not as good as other browser

    5. why not make add-on manager a command button?it shoud save a lot

    i am bit dissapoint as long time ie user

  36. Wing says:

    Is it possible to drag a tab from a window to another window? Or drag a tab to an empty area to open a new window? Sometimes it is really handy to have a side by side view of web pages.

  37. CliveP says:

    Not sure how to post this as the original thread is closed for comments, but I have solved the issue with installation hanging at Installing Core Components… and never completing.

    This happens if the installer is trying to unregister a DLL that is not properly registered. In my case it was an iTunes related .ocx file that was to be deregistered. But the iTunes.msi file had been deleted and the unregister failed. The IE 7 Beta 3 Installer hangs when this happens.

    I found this by looking at the IE7Beta3_main.log file. The last entry in the log (before the hang) was:

    121.297: Starting process:  C:WINDOWSsystem32regsvr32.exe /u /s C:WINDOWSsystem32proctexe.oxc

    Then nothing.

    I tried executing the above from a CMD prompt manually, omitting the /s option. This gave me the error dialog saying that iTunes.msi could not be found and was required to deregister the file.

    I solved the issue by redownloading and installing iTunes, then IE7 Beta 3 installed cleanly.

  38. Jonathan Hoersch [MSFT] says:

    @CliveP: Thanks for reporting this issue.  Proctexe.ocx is a component that was distributed with older versions of Windows and Internet Explorer, and so I’m unsure how iTunes got pulled into the picture.  I’ll check whether we have any other reports of this issue, and will try to figure out what’s going on here.

    You say that you solved the issue by redownloading & installing iTunes, presumably the latest available version (6.0.5)?  Is this the same version of iTunes that you had installed prior to trying to install IE7?

    The unregistration of proctexe.ocx was one of the first things I have contributed as a new member of the IE development team, so I’ll make sure we get this issue resolved. 🙂

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