June Chat with IE team


Members of the IE team will be online for an Expert Zone chat this coming Thursday June 8th at 10.00AM PST. These chats are a great opportunity to have your questions answered and hear from members of the IE product team. A transcript will be published after the chat and transcripts of other recent chats are available.

These chats are a lot of fun and we hope you will join us for the chat if you can.

Cheers
 – Uche

Comments (56)

  1. What!? A chat! Why don’t we have a teleconference instead!?

    Sorry… just kidding. I just wanted to be the first to whine about it this time.

    Can’t make it to the chat, but I’ll enjoy the transcript. Keep up the good work, IETeam!

  2. microzila says:

    its always great to read the transcripts …i will be looking forward to it

  3. darrenstraight says:

    I’ll see if I can make it! :)

  4. PAPAVB says:

    short and to the point:

    WHERE IS THE DOWNLOAD MANAGER I’VE BEEN LOOKING FOR. IT GETS MORE DIFFICULT TO ARGUE THAT IE IS THE BEST WHEN YOU HAVE NO FRIGGIN DOWNLOAD MANAGER.

    I BEG OF YOU GIVE ME A GOOD DOWNLOAD MANAGER

  5. AS says:

    Can you add the following simple feature: ctrl-L should do the same thing as F6. The reason is that ctrl-L works in every other browser, and will make it easier for me to transition from Firefox to IE7.

  6. Soum says:

    Please give some visual indication, like highlighting or glowing the fav-center button, when there is new feeds content.

  7. Banners says:

    I can make it either, but do have a question! How in IE7 can I change the default download location – under a user profile in Vista we now have a Downloads folder, it would be good if IE7 would be capable of a GUI control to allow or remember the last folder used….

  8. Martijn says:

    I have win XP 64 running and after installation of IE7 I was no longer able to start my MS Money 2006 ; got a out-of-memory error, despite nothing else was running and I have 2 Gb RAM /w AMD64 (FX57).

    reboot, etc. did not resolve.

    After uninstall of IE7 and reboot everything fine again so seems something is screwed up /w IE7 and Money2006

  9. Marcus says:

    I have a question you can answer right now 😉

    Or you can save it for the transcript.

    Several posts back, you told us that we were to use the "Feedback" link/site, to pass on bug reports, and feature requests to the IE team.

    Since then, many of us have signed up (requires passport), and submitted bugs, only to see that there is no activity on them, or there is just a 1 liner "thanks, we’ll look into this"

    The whole Feedback thing, came out of the fact that IE was SERIOUSLY missing a public bug tracking system.  We congradulated you on providing the "Feedback" site, even though it is fairly lack-lustre, and not user (or developer) friendly in the slightest.

    We understand that you have commitments to a ship date, etc. but it really bothers us, that you state you are going to do things by the book, follow the specs, and stop diverting from the web standards, and then when we point out all the flaws in the product, it falls on deaf ears.

    A simple "confirmation" of a bug, being a bug would be nice.

    Better yet, a "confirmation", and a target release/date, or a comment as to why the bug fix will be delayed.

    i.e. "We want to fix the bug with <_option_/> rendering, but it relies on a fix for the <_select_/> element z-index bug. Bug:# 1234567 (where the number is a hyperlink to the other bug)"

    These are such tiny things, that would make a world of difference.  As such, I have given up on entering bugs in "Feedback" until this issue is resolved.  I will not waste my time entering bug reports, if you have no intention of reading them, and participating in fixing this browser."

    (yes, I am ticked)

  10. Alfonso says:

    That feedback thing is just a joke. As soon as I saw how they close all the bugs saying that this behavior is present in previous versions and can’t be fixed for the IE7 release date I understood that they didn’t at all about fixing bugs, just wanted to show that they also have kind of bug tracker system.

    If they really cared about bugs they would mark all those bugs as "future", "for IE 7.5" or something like that, but not closing them without any distintion from a non-existing bugs, there’s no way someone can use that bug tracking system to try to find if the bug that he is suffering is a known one or something that is new.

    They just cared about tabs and moving everything around so no one can find it.

  11. tom says:

    IE needs to be downgraded, IE7 is aweful, not very user friendly, I know thin kthis article could have been written by me:

    http://www.arcon5.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=268

    I do hope this is true:

    http://www.arcon5.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=270

  12. tom says:

    IE7 should be downgraded to IE6, not very user friendly!

  13. Brian Mulconrey says:

    I’ve only had a few day’s experience with IE7 but I’m already getting kicked off websites that think I have an older version of IE. I had to download Netscape this morning so that I could access 2 websites that I’ve been unable to access (one of them is a fairly popular site http://www.wellsfargo.com/wf/browser/denied_browser).

  14. EricLaw [MSFT] says:

    Brian: You can spoof annoying sites that block you by using a simple registry key.  See http://www.fiddlertool.com/useragent.aspx for a quick fix.

    We’re working with site owners to get their sites updated to support IE7.

  15. EricLaw [MSFT] says:

    @AS: F6 toggles between frames and the chrome.  Your best bet to jump directly to the address box is ALT+D.

  16. Adam says:

    Why don’t you just suck it up and tell everyone that Beta 3 isn’t going to be released until August and the full version until Christmas time.  This is unbelievable.  A Beta 3, and in August!  I would expect this from 2 IT guys working in a basement but this is friggin’ Microsoft.  You guys really need to get a CLUE!

    A software company that isn’t publishing software.

    Oh the world we live in.

  17. Maurits says:

    Re: Wells Fargo — it looks like this is intentional behavior:

    http://www.wellsfargo.com/wf/help/wfonline/browser_supported?_requestid=8840

    "Wells Fargo does not support beta versions of browsers."

    I’m actually with WF on this one.  They’re (potentinally) leaving themselves pretty wide open from a liability POV if they support IE7 Beta N.

    Of course, if you spoof the User-Agent header, then you assume the liability, so there’s no problem.

  18. Marcus: we’re working on the feedback site. Only recently was it even possible to allow for anonymous feedback and we’re considering how and when to enable that feature. Opening the feedback was the first of many steps so please be patient as we ramp up our presence there. In the meantime, we’ve spent most of our time filtering the feedback (getting rid of duplicates, etc). We put a comment in every issue that we touch.

    Thanks,

    -Christopher

  19. Joe hthtG says:

    I wanted to know why there is no option to open my home page in a new tab like it is in the windows 2003 IE7 beta. Also why havn’t you guys figured out to put an intergrated download manager with resume option. Nothing more painful then downloading a file and losing connection and having to start all over. I don’t like having to install 3rd party programs like getright to do this. Please integrate it into IE. I think that would win a lot of users over to stay or move to IE7.

  20. Marcus says:

    @Christopher Vaughan:

    Glad to hear that something is happening, even if at a glacial pace.

    What urks us the most, is that you asked for feedback, to fix all the bugs, but then it appears that you aren’t actually getting to them.

    We hear "layout complete" and go "huh? are you serious?, there is still a ton of bugs in there, not to mention many (like circa 2000) missing features"

    I want IE out, as much as the next guy, but it is nowhere near ready.

    CTRL + scroll wheel makes IE7’s chrome go to !@#$

    Dbl-clicking the print preview window title doesn’t resize it (PS it is also missing minimize/maximize controls)

    The focus box (dotted lines) on the current tab… what’s with that? no padding!, half missing!, just plain ugly.

    in print preview, choose 6up view, then change the scale… where did all the pages go?

    in print preview, click the prev/next page buttons on a multi-page preview… how come only half the mouse clicks are registered?

    the delete history dialog is dreadfully laid out, and un-intuitive

    unifiy the chrome look and feel please!!! blue buttons for back / left / search… but green for refresh (not aquafied), and the stop is gray? what gives?

    loading local png’s sometimes gives the "script warning bar" (very anoying for devs)

    DOM methods: (when are these going to be in?, these were out in 1998/2000!!!!!!!!)

    .setAttribute()

    .addEventListener()

    .removeEventListener()

    Lets get serious, we want to see a post on here, that says, we are working on this, but don’t expect a final in 2006. Maybe Q2 2007.

    Marcus

  21. Yaroslav says:

    OK, here is mine, I really miss the fact that i can’t open FTP sites from the browser anymore. It just says that the page can’t be displayed. It was pretty usefull feature for me.

    User interface is another issue; it may be straighforward for some novice, but for people that worked with windows applications for years – it is pretty anoying not to find any menu area or anything that looks like normal windows interface

  22. PatriotB says:

    Adam: Where are you getting "August" from?  I haven’t seen an official announcement here on the blog or anywhere else.

    Could someone from the team confirm this?  (I don’t expect you guys to give us a date, but at least confirm to us that August has *not* been announced…)

  23. PatriotB says:

    Marcus:

    I’ve seen some IE people try to explain it, and it’s a bit confusing, but the reason that so many rendering bugs are not being treated as "bugs", is because the team didn’t intend to fix the issue this release in the first place.  There’s a lot of CSS things that the team has simply said, we aren’t going to do this in IE7.  Is it a bug?  Overall, yes.  But for IE7, no.

    Remember, if they wait to release it until there are no more of those "overall" bugs, they will never release.  At some point, they have to draw a line and give what they have to their customers.  IE7 is a substantial step forward, even if there are many steps following it.

  24. Mike says:

    After IE6.0.x for about 5 years, do we have to be satisfied with a new version that doesn’t fix the CSS problems? Doesn’t add the download manager? Removes FTP support?

    Microsoft is one the biggest software companies in the world, but you can’t tell, judging by IE7’s development speed.

  25. Will says:

    The FTP issue is just a bug; it’s in the database, quit whining.

    Most of the UI niggles are easy to fix and it’s silly to complain about them until RC1 at least.

    No one from Microsoft has said anything about August… those "news" sites are just quoting each other and they seem surprised about there being a beta-3 despite the fact that beta-3 was announced when beta 2 shipped.

  26. Fduch says:

    When I first saw IE7 in Longhorn it had DOWNLOAD MANAGER. And where is it now??

  27. hi every one !

    I’d like to congratulate you for the work accomplished, ie7 beta2 is far from being perfect but perfection isn’t on this world …

    so keep going you are on the good Way ….

    please a little CSS integration ….

    May the force be With you …

  28. anphanax says:

    I use the classic start menu (well, not really, I don’t use the start menu for much of anything, besides the RUN command). I’ve noticed after installing this new beta, my icons for the start menu keep vanishing (the top level ones, doesn’t effect listings from the programs sub-menu). Is this an IE7 problem, an Explorer.exe problem, or both?

  29. Steve says:

    My vote/comment is for the following 2 bugs to be sorted out for IE7:

    setAttribute()

    addEventListener()

    It is insane, that in IE, you can’t do:

    foo.setAttribute(‘onclick’, ‘funcA(this);funcB();’);

    Oh sure, you can try, but the events don’t get registered.

    So, you go to do it properly:

    addEventListener(foo, ‘click’, true);

    barf! addEventListener is not defined.

    Worse, is the setAttribute() is so horribly broken it isn’t funny.  It should work, on all attributes, no exceptions*.

    *If by some freak of nature, it will not support a given attribute, PUBLICLY DECLARE this somewhere, so we don’t pull our hair out trying to find out why it won’t work.

    Steve

  30. Steve says:

    Oh, one more thing.

    Regarding virtual machines (VMWare)

    If I have XP, running VMWare, can I have a VMWare image of XP, that can "install" IE7?

    (I’m in the boat, of developers that can’t install IE7 on my primary box, as I need to support the "latest" official browsers.)

    Better yet, can MS provide a torrent, for the above VMWare images, such that we as developers can test (each iteration of) the new browser?

    (again, rendering mostly… (X)HTML, CSS, ECMAScript)

    I don’t care if the image is locked down, so that you can’t install any other programs, or ?

  31. Adam says:

    <<Microsoft is one the biggest software companies in the world, but you can’t tell, judging by IE7’s development speed.>>

    This is exactly my point.  This speed of work is similar to two guys struggling in a basement trying to get their software out.  This isn’t Microsoft.  This is pathetic!

    <<<No one from Microsoft has said anything about August…>>>

    Really?  No one from Microsoft is denying it so far!

  32. Kaat says:

    Please fix form buttons so that they’re not distorted when they contain more than 15-18 characters.

    See http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/forms/imagebutton.html for example

  33. EricLaw [MSFT] says:

    The download manager was removed from IE7 some time ago for scheduling reasons. It’s on our feature list for a future version.  There are lots of addons that take advantage of IE’s Download Manager API (http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/browser/ext/reference/ifaces/idownloadmanager/idownloadmanager.asp) to provide a download management experience.

    @Adam: We don’t comment on every rumor that some "news" site dreams up; this would take forever.

    @Kaat: This is a known issue that we hope to get to in a future release.  It turns out that it’s a pretty tricky bug to fix.

  34. Adam says:

    @Adam: We don’t comment on every rumor that some "news" site dreams up; this would take forever.

    Well you really haven’t commented on much at all.  Except, "it’s not ready, it’s not ready."

    We will see come August I guess for Beta 3. The fact that you need a 3rd beta anyways(excuse me 4th beta there was a pre-beta release also) proves Microsoft has no idea what it’s doing.

  35. Dave says:

    "proves Microsoft has no idea what it’s doing"

    Pointless Microsoft-bashing on the IEBlog is a waste of bandwidth.  

    Most of us *like* the betas and seeing how much better IE gets with each one.

  36. Fduch says:

    @Eric: I remember you (or maybe someone else) said that IE can resume downloads. But the server should support it, the file should still be in cache, and it should be at the same path. Then IE will resume it.

    I have seen it with may own eyes few times.

    But only few. I think somethin can still be done to make it work more often. I think that it’s some problem with cache (I don’t mean  post/pre checks).

    Can you comment it?

    P.S. Where should I report FTM bugs?

  37. EricLaw [MSFT] says:

    Yes, IE resumes downloads, if the file is cacheable, the server responded with an Accept-Ranges: bytes header, and there are proper headers on the response (e.g. an ETAG) that permit a conditional HTTP range request.

    The primary problem with resumption is that IE7 will not resume the download an infinite number of times; if it doesn’t successfully get at least some bytes each time it tries to resume, it starts over from scratch.  This is one of the issues that a future download manager will likely resolve.

  38. Jim Brun says:

    I am not to unpleased with IE 7. I don’t like all of the security features and I am learning to shut off what I don’t like. Overall though it is good.

  39. Hugo says:

    http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47301

    The Nokia N80’s web browser renders the Acid2 test better than IE7. Yes folks, a CELLULAR PHONE can comply with standards better than the best efforts of Microsoft.

    Surely the IE development team should consider that to be a bit embarassing?

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  42. BioBuzz says:

    Hi All,

    I’ve just loaded vista beta2 it took ages and several attempts!!! but now it’s running and I must say well done to microsoft it seems stable although (not as stable as mac or as fast!) when working with folders with large amounts of photos it seemed very slow?

    I will keep with it and report any problems

    Cheers

    BioBuzz

  43. Roger says:

    It’s hard to say as every time I open IE7 in Vista Beta2 every page scrolls to the bottom and refuses to go back up. Doh!

  44. PatriotB says:

    Hugo — "better" on Acid2 isn’t as simple as it seems.  Yes, the phone browser image more closely resembles the real thing, but they are both quite a ways off.  And the phone’s rendering looking better than IE might mean that it has one or two additional fixes that IE doesn’t have; it says nothing about the fixes that IE has that the phone doesn’t.

    Nor does it say anything about how it translates into real-world web sites.  I’d say IE7 renders most web sites better than a cell phone.

  45. Hugo says:

    Both the Nokia browser and IE7 are a way off, yes, but at the end of the day, the Nokia browser is closer (e.g. it doesn’t go ‘mental’ towards the bottom like IE7 does). Is that not embarassment enough for Microsoft?

    "I’d say IE7 renders most web sites better than a cell phone."

    Wrong. That’s what I assumed before I bought this phone, but it couldn’t be further from the truth! Every site I’ve visited on the phone comes up exactly as Firefox/Opera would display it. I’ve tried several pages that IE7 chokes on, and the Nokia browser has no problems with them. It’s difficult to prove it to you — I suggest you go to a phone store and test drive the N80 for yourself.

    I think this has a lot to do with the fact that Nokia incorporated technology from Safari, the Apple browser which passed Acid2 some time ago. If after a year’s work they still can’t make the Trident engine standards compliant, Maybe Microsoft should admit that Trident is dead, and possibly licence out someone else’s engine that actually works?

  46. Doug says:

    If a "standard" works in 10% of the deployed population of browsers, and not in the browsers that 90% of users are using, isn’t it sorta disingenuous to call it the "standard"?  

    Does this mean that I can invent a new language, write a few papers, get a few people to start speaking it, and then say English is "wrong" because it doesn’t meet my "standard"?  

    I don’t see the Esperanto folks getting away with this type of sophistry.

  47. lray801 says:

    I love all the complaining about the problems with IE 7 and Vista (to some extent).  I suppose that these people didn’t notice the fact that it says BETA in the title (although some DO mention that in their posts).  Definition of BETA: WORK IN PROGRESS.  IE: Expect bugs.  Expect issues.  Expect to get so irritated that you want to pick up your computer and throw it across the room.  Hello folks.  Welcome to BETA.  That’s what it’s all about.  You don’t like it? UNINSTALL.  Wait for the official release.  REINSTALL.  Stop the freakin Microsoft bashing.  You REALLY think they care?  Keep it constructive and to the point.  If you don’t like it, DON’T USE IT.

    *Steps off soap box*

    Now, I do have just a few bugs that I would like to report:

    When clicking a hyperlink that opens in a new window, the page stays white with the hourglass next to the pointer and the page won’t load.  However, if I stop the loading, then refresh, the page loads correctly.

    Also, IE seems to chew a lot of my processor.  Sends it up to 100% every time I navigate around a page, or from one site to another.

    Thanks, IE team, for taking the time to read these posts, and respond to some.  I have been beta testing many products recently, and surprisingly *knock on wood* I have not yet had to do a clean installation of my OS.  Thank God.  Keep up the good work.

    Luke

    lray801@hotmail.com

  48. EricLaw [MSFT] says:

    @lray801: High CPU usage may be due to a bug in the Beta-2 phishing filter’s local heuristics.  If you select "Disable" in Tools | Internet Options | Advanced | Phishing Filter, does the CPU usage go down?

  49. lray801 says:

    @EricLaw:

    Turning off the Phishing filter helps some.  However, IE still seems to run my CPU up, particularly right after the page has loaded.

    Thanks for the help.

  50. chln1970 says:

    I love the look. It’s sort of like unix for give me. I liked the way you took the best from there and windows. I’d like my "My Documents" icon back on my desktop. The little problems I’ve had seting up were minor. The Creative Sound Blaster Live sound card I tried to use created blue screen errors, So I used the realtek on the motherboard. No more problem. Great OS. Thanks.

  51. Chad says:

    A Good Download Manager or Even Pre-Starting the download as the user chooses where the file will be saved.  (Like in Firefox and Opera)  Would be a great time saving feature.

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