Transcript for IE Expert Zone Chat


The transcript from the May 11th chat is now available online. The Chat was fun as usual and we had a blast. People seemed very excited with IE7 Beta 2 and were curious about what to expect in Beta 3.

You can find out when the next chat will be at http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/chats/default.mspx . We typically hold the IE chats on the second Thursday of every month.

Cheers
Uche


Comments (65)

  1. Robert says:

    IE 7 is awesome.  

    Is there a way to make folders for my feeds after I subscribe to them?  Kind of like how I can do with my favorites.  

  2. Sogol says:

    Hi, I am having some issues with the beta 2 version. I am experiencing problems with my school’s remote access e-mail (It is run with Microsoft Outlook Web Access). Whenever I am logged in and want to open a message window, the message window freezes up and after a few minutes says that an error occurred. I was wondering what the problem was. Also, whenever I am on facebook.com, there are lots of layout issues. Lists start going diagonally and links don’t match up with the pictures. Is there anything I can do to fix this? Thanks!

  3. ricochet says:

    Uche (Expert):

    Q: I might have deleted my browsing history. but how do I get them back ?

    A: well if u visit the sites you went to then they will come back.

    LOL! :)

  4. Serious Sam says:

    Hey guys,

    Just a couple of other more points.

    1.  Not sure if I’ve mentioned this one before, but I have to say that I’ve been experiencing some almost painfully slow page scrolling.  While this issue seems to be limited to pages that are particularly text and/or image heavy, I know for a fact that there where no similar problems on these pages within IE 6 (eg. some of the blog entries here that contain a lot of posts seem to chug when scolling down in IE 7, when they where perfectly smooth before).  I know that this is a beta and I’m sure you’re still working on stuff like this, but I figured I may as well mention it.

    2.  I also have to say that I’m beginning to get just a little irked as to the positioning of some of IE ‘s option screens.  These include things like the ‘Internet Options’ screen, the ‘open’ and the ‘find’ box etc., which all seem to appear in totally different, random locations on the screen.  For example, I believe the ‘Internet Options’, seem to open up to the left (as do a couple of other things, such as the ‘manage add-ons’), while the ‘find’, facility seems to come in towards the upper right, blocking the inline search box and the ‘open’ seems to appear to the upper left etc.  This is instead of the nice –  and somewhat standard – centralised positioning common in many other programmes (including, I believe, IE 6, not to mention Office).  In fact, the only thing that seems to take up a central position on the screen, is the ‘customer feedback options’ found in the help menu.  Once again, I’m aware that this maybe a reletively small issue to some people, but it’s definetly one of consistancy and retaining – to a certain extent at least – what the user is used to.

    Thanks, hope these things help, keep on blogging (and working on IE 7, of course, lol).

  5. The promised blog entry about CSS 2.1 and the "correct" parsing of rgb() elements is located here:

    http://www.darklock.com/blog/?p=80

    I didn’t actually get to it until the next morning.

  6. Looooooka says:

    this might be unrelated but still…i hate the new menu and address location in ie7.

    And classic look isn’t classic at all.It just moves the menus to where they were supposed to be but the address bar is still on top.

    Which is just way evil because it’s not as accessible as it used to be when u’re clicking on page links…

    the tab selection look needs a lot more work(right now it just screams out BETA BETA BETA).

    So i hope there’s going to be a choise to put the menus and the address bar to where it was in ie6(here u can’t even drag them up and down anymore).

    That’s it…crying over =)

  7. rocky says:

    >Is there a way to make folders for my feeds after I subscribe to them?  Kind of like how I can do with my favorites.  

    Yes, folders can be created by right-clicking on a feed and selecting "Create New Folder".  The "New Folder" can then be renamed and then feeds can be dragged into it.

  8. rochette says:

    No more toolbars!

    Web searches using your favorite search provider can now be entered into a search box within the toolbar. You can easily choose a provider from the dropdown list or add more providers.

    Here’s a list of Search Providers for IE 7.

    http://ieproviders.com/

  9. Derek says:

    Ok… Sorry I missed the chat! I do have one question though… I’d like to know why after installing IE 7 Beta 2 i can no longer access my hotmail account from Outlook, yet if I uninstall IE 7, Hotmail access is restored? From what I gather abot all the new security built into IE 7, is this telling me that the login process for hotmail is not secure? What else could it be? And will it be corrected anytime soon? OK… don’t have a cow! It was more than one question, but you know how it goes…..

  10. hAl says:

    @Serious Sam

    Got a few examples of the slow scrolling pages in IE7 that do scroll fine in IE6 ?

    Also someone have an example of extremly large pictures that gave performance troubles in IE6 whilst other browsers just rendered the visible part en showed that visible part fine.

    I also would like a bit more consistency in the opening of dialog screens (like options).  

  11. SSSS says:

    Hi Guys,

    Great work on IE7, great response to those back yard drug dealers at mozilla, one little thing that has me a little irked though is that when you open a new tab the cursor does automatically appear in the address bar, will we have this function in the final release. Thanks!!

  12. Tim Fletcher says:

    IE team, I really wish someone would come out and tell me why pngs dont support alpha in IE6. I, like everyone else, have a million critisisms regarding IE, but this one just feels so … blatantly achievable that I dont know why you havent done it. I feel like you are trying to make things difficult for a reason.

    PNG specification for use in internet browsers has been around since 1996. IE has taken a lot of heat for not supporting PNGs .

    So why I ask havent you just tossed an intern at a terminal, said "make pngs render right" and released an update to the world. Could it really take more than 5 hours to get working?

    Seriously- it boggles my mind. I dont understand any advantage to not doing it, except to promote IE7.

    Code it. Get it done. Release it. You would make a lot of people happy. Please just spend 5 less minutes eChatting and do something logical.

    And I know this comment will be deleted post haste- but boy would I love it if someone would just come out and give me an excuse.

  13. Jag says:

    You know what??? just use firefox…Definately has more security and lots of wonderful extensions that get added everyday.Unlike IE7, which coppied mozilla’s tabbed browsing and has security holes crawling with viruses and malware..well its your choice..but we, the more knowledgeable people in terms of computing, use opensource software because more people want to fix more security holes on it (if there are any existing) compared to the people who want to exploit it..so take my advice..use opensource, to avoid rootkits, memory hogging antiviruses, and get high quality opensource software ;)

    Cheers!  

  14. Serious Sam says:

    Hi hAL,

    Well, for a start, even this particular blog seems to be just a little juddery (although very, very minor).  An example of a page that seems to scroll, almost horribly slowly for me, would be: http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/07/29/445242.aspx#comments.  Yes, I know it’s an incredibly old blog post, but it’s a good example of how a page with lots of content seems to grind almost to a halt and also becomes a little unresponsive (plus, I remember reading this when it was still open and don’t remember getting quite the snarl-up that I am now).

    Please be aware, that the only reason I’m limiting my examples to posts from this blog, is because I’m feeling really lazy, lol.  In addition, I know that while this might be at the extreme end, in terms of the amount of content it has (500+ responces, I believe), I have had sites that slow up with a lot less.

  15. Serious Sam says:

    Sorry, I’ve just got one last point to my previous post.  I have a laptop, so when I say scrolling, I tend to use that funny touch sensitive thingy, which allows for continuous scrolling down the page.  Not sure if that changes anything, but may as well mention it, just in case it does.

    Thanks

  16. Jean-Michel Rolland says:

    If I install Windows Media Player 11 Beta will it affect the performance or features of Internet Explorer 7 Beta 2? I just want to know so that I know that my computer will be fine after installing WMP11.

    I will be waiting for a reply:)

  17. Ron says:

    @Serious Sam, I have a relatively fast PC and I can see a marginal difference between Firefox’s speed and IE7’s speed when scrolling that page.

    When you scroll quickly using the mouse on the scrollbar, IE7’s scrollbar handle lags behind the cursor, and the text on the page looks like it’s trying to redraw as fast as it can but can’t quite keep up. The effect is not at all painful, but there’s definetly slower performance.

    Firefox scrolls with absolutely no noticable slow down.

    @Jean-Michel Rolland, I haven’t noticed any troubles between the two programs.

  18. Ron says:

    I have a question.

    The IE Team constantly uses the statement "unfortunately we won’t be able to fix so-and-so in this version…", there’s a lot of known bugs and performance issues that won’t be fixed in IE7 final.

    Do you, IE Team, really think it’s worthwile to release a clearly unfinished browser, only to release another version for the sole purpose of finishing off this version?

    We’re going to have at least three popular versions of the same browser floating around (6, 7 and 8), and each one will have wildly different CSS support. In my opinion this will inevitably creat web-chaos and we’ll be back to javascript detection and workarounds etc, I don’t like where the future of IE is headed.

    If only IE7 could be delayed for another 6 or 12 months to get CSS support up to an acceptable level…

  19. Fduch says:

    "If only IE7 could be delayed for another 6 or 12 months to get CSS support up to an acceptable level"

    You are wrong. Tell me when was IE6 released? You think they didn’t have enough time?

    They were just sleeping allthe time.

    I think that IE7 should be released to the public as soon as possible. Because while MS is not listening to testers’ feedback (unlike Office 2007 team), it will listen to CUSTOMERS’ feedback (as if beta-testers weren’t customers…).

  20. cooperpx says:

    @ Ron

    "What if" they changed their behavior and put out another feature update in two quarters?

    They would likely focus on fixing issues and not introduce more features which potentially will have more new bugs… and thus keep replying the way they have.

    If this is the case, then likely lots of pressure would be avoided (from us) to get this absolutely perfect.

    If we’re lucky, that’s what they’ll do. Any Microsoft IE PM want to touch on this?

  21. mgentry says:

    "Q: I’ve noticed that toolbars don’t always play nice with IE7 (location changes or become hidden when opening new tabs or browser windows). How’s this being addressed?

    A: If you encounter any toolbars that behave in strange ways like this in a reproducible fashion, please tell us! Go to our connect site and file the bug…"

    This is amusing since I logged a bug regarding a toolbar that *I* am developing (regarding IInputObject oddities) and the official response was:

    "We recommend users to utilize IE7 without installing any toolbars to get the best performance from IE7. This tutorial you are following might not have been updated for IE7.

    -Thanks

    Filiz Kurban"

    Is there a better developer support channel for things like this?

  22. Hao says:

    After I use IE7, I can not update my photo in msn spaces. How come?

  23. Tricky says:

    If Microsoft is so committed to users being able to secure their browser, how come IE doesnt remember whether I dont want to run Active X on a particular site. When I set IE to "prompt" .. it always prompts on pages even pages that I wish to trust (there is no way to set it to remember that a site or page is OK).

    This encourages people to a) always click "Yes" or b) disable prompting so that when they visit a malicious or suspicious URL they can get caught to a vulnerability.

  24. I tried IE7 beta for two weeks and can’t see what all the fuss is about–except that it must be fun for the engineers to rework something over yet again.  

    I didn’t like it and uninstalled it. Some day I’ll use it grudgingly when I have to just as I have with most of the other "updates" of operating systems and programs that are out there.

    Being drug reluctantly into the 21st century I wish you all the best….

  25. Cory Nelson says:

    Does Microsoft have any plans to distribute the ClearType fonts (Calibri etc) with IE7?  This would be a great boon to web developers wanting to take advantage of them now!

  26. EricLaw [MSFT] says:

    @Cory: At the moment, I don’t think IE will be redistributing any additional fonts.  I’ll ask and get back to you if I’m mistaken.

  27. Anders says:

    Page scrolling is very slow to impossible at "big" pages.

    Try http://tinyurl.com/qvvzs for instance

    ALT-a used to bring up the Favorites menu. Now it brings up the history sidebar. Goes against all logic.

    Accesskey-support is overruled by shortcuts. When I’ve got an element on a page with accesskey="a", ALT-a should give focus to that element. Instead, it brings up the history sidebar (see above)

  28. One Request – Since Print is in the drop down box, and that takes you to the printer dialog, why can’t the button for print be quick print (without the printer dialog)? This would be awesome, I think.

  29. Steve says:

    ************************************

    * Requesting a new OPEN blog post. *

    ************************************

    Subject: "What features/functionality currently missing in the latest IE7 Beta are you most concerned/interested in?"

    This blog is the main forum where we get to discuss development issues with IE7, yet most of the technical questions do not get answered.

    Additionally, the Feedback site set up (much kudos btw), is helpful for sure, and finally allows us to declare the bugs to the IE team, and track their progress, is good, but…

    …There seems to be *very* little activity in terms of a.) recognizing and validating bugs, b.) providing a target build/version for the fix. c.) providing meaningful feedback as to why said bug will take a while, or will not be fixed ATM. d.) actually fixing the bugs!

    I’ll digress on the horrible search, paging, lack of user preferences (e.g. I want to view more than 4 bugs in my watch list at a time!!!!), and lack of bug linking (e.g. this bug, is related/dependant on bug:#12345.

    Otherwise, keep up the good work.  Remember, we would much rather wait till 2007 for a good version of IE7, than release it as it currently stands… there is lots of work to do!

    Thanks,

    Steve

  30. Try this one:

    https://www.fulbright.es/book/view/106

    After you accept to display non secure content… it displays nothing

  31. Omar says:

    WGA system is "FAILING", well I have 2,yes two original license of windows xp, and also have the SP2, and I can’t update any of the files I want by visiting windows update site it says my OS is ilegal and I feel really pissed off, well, I am starting to look at gentoo from now since vanguard saga of heroes can run on linux, guys at here, Ie7 beta 2 so far is the best browser I ver used, but putting things like WGA system and SP2 as requirement is stupid, sofar I know IE7 is the freeware made by microsoft for excellence, is because the life cycle of the other OS that you don’t want to develope it for the other Windows OS?

    And by the way I use the genuine check.exe  and it gives me the validation codes, which means my copy is legal, well I bought at Microsoft Store in Dominican Republic. If that don’t say it all, what will? thanks for listening, developer or  someone at microsoft that can send me a mail, because obiously Mircrosoft DR, knows anything except to giive good support to their customers. thanks.

  32. EricLaw [MSFT] says:

    @Steve: I answer pretty much every technical question I’ve seen on IEBlog.  What questions do you have?

    As for the schedule: IE has a LOT of users, and the vast majority of the feedback we’ve received to date is very positive.  

    I’m intimately familiar with the bugs in IE6, and I want to see the major improvements done for IE7 widely available ASAP.

    @Anders:

    1> We’re working on the scrolling performance issues.

    2> Actually ALT+A brings up the Favorites center, which may be on the History tab if that’s the function you’ve used most recently.  You can hit Alt, A to get to the classic menu.

    3> While I disagree (I don’t think a page should be able to override browser chrome shortcuts; e.g. Wikipedia steals ALT+F) I believe we’re considering a change to revert to past behavior here.

    @Hector: I’ll look into https://www.fulbright.es/book/view/106.

    Thanks, all!

  33. Jun Lin says:

    Suggestion:

    How about JPEG 2000 support for IE 7 (off topic but even better: Windows Vista)

    I like what’s it doing to my monsterous photo album and I’d like to use JPG 2000 on the web too.

  34. Anders says:

    Thanks for your remarks, EricLaw. I’m particularly happy with the Alt, A-tip to get quick access to the classic menu, so I can access my recent CTRL-D-bookmarks immediately with the "arrow up" key.

    I understand your comment about accesskeys. I do hope you’ll revert to the old behaviour though. I’d have a hard time explaining my clients that some accesskeys in their CMS still work but others don’t :)

  35. Tony says:

    Can we expect a newer version of IE7 to be released with SP3 when Avalon is ported over to WinXP at or near Vista launch?

    Will there be better protect of tcp/ip and winsock layers to prevent corruption or deletion? I find a number of invalid IP issues are resolved by repairing these layers. If Windows strictly limited access to these files it may help to avoid the nasty 169 IP.

    And I know you guys probably can’t or won’t answer this, but why can’t we boot Windows from an external hard drive like some distros of Linux and Apple OSX? Especially with the improved drivers database in Vista?

  36. EricLaw [MSFT] says:

    @Hector: The problem with that site is related to CSS; it doesn’t have anything to do with the blocked SSL content.  Visit: http://www.fulbright.es/ to see what I mean.  I’ve asked our compatibility folks to let them know.  Thanks!

    @Tony: IE7 on XP does not ship networking updates below WinINET (which sits on top of Winsock).  On Vista, there are a number of architectural changes to the network stack to improve robustness.

    I’m afraid I have no idea why Vista won’t boot off an external device; you’ll have to ask in a Vista-specific forum.

  37. Serious Sam says:

    Hi,

    Hey guys, got another link for you here: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/blog.asp?blogid=22&postid=546.  Was just wondering if there was any chance of you guys looking through some of the feedback/comments/questions found here, since there does seem to be quite a few, especially concerning IE 7’s page rendering and possible problems in some pages – hopefully some of it will come in useful.

  38. qwerty says:

    just to check if comments work

  39. Fduch says:

    Vista and Office 2007 betas 2 released….

    I still remember your mumbling: bla bla bla, BitTorrent is for taking load from servers. But our servers are fast and reliable. They always work and work fast. bla bla bla

    How many hours it will take for .Net Passport oh, i forgot, LIVE! ID servers to be up again?

  40. hey, is IE going to incorporate support for IRC URLs?

  41. Steve says:

    @Eric Law:

    An example of one of the many long standing bugs in MSIE, for which we have heard NOTHING about, (several years now) in terms of:

    A.) Acknowledging the existance of the bug(s) (setting events, classes, certain attributes)

    B.) A target (date/release). (e.g. will it make IE7? IE8?…)

    C.) A list of other bugs that this fix, may also fix… or unfortunately break.

    Link to the bug on MS IE7 Feedback Site (reqires a login):

    https://connect.microsoft.com/feedback/ViewFeedback.aspx?SiteID=136&FeedbackID=70509

    This applies to setting the class="foo" attribute on any element, as well as something like the for="field_id" attribute on a label element, as well as any on{event} attribute on any element, and many others.

    Note: I wouldn’t normally try and set the events inline, however (grin), the lack of a standard DOM event listener implementation makes this an ideal option.

    PS If you want to contact me directly, I can provide you with several examples of the above bug(s).

  42. Kirkic Ahmet says:

    ich will internet explore haben

  43. Fduch says:

    is IE going to incorporate support for web browsing?

  44. DavidU says:

    The pop up window that shows the Overview Videos for Office 2007 get cut off on the bottom of the page in IE7.

  45. Fduch says:

    microsoft.com, saved to mht looks unstyled around search box and bottom links.

  46. Sachin says:

    Can someone for the love of God tell me how to open links in a existing tab? Dragging & dropping link always opens it in the same tab and by the dragging and dropping the link on the pseudo-tab (the right most tab for opening a new tab) also opens the link in the same tab! Is it a bug or a feature?

  47. hAl says:

    Our new blogfather needs to remove some posts  above I guess. And this one to of course.

  48. Ami says:

    I am not sure where to submit bugs.

    Anyway, There is a bug when retrieving IMarkupServices from an IHTMLDocument2 object. It always retuns NO_INTERFACE.

  49. DMassy says:

    Ami,

    See http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/support/default.mspx for details on how to submit bugs.

    Thanks

    -Dave

  50. Tino Zijdel says:

    EricLaw: "While I disagree (I don’t think a page should be able to override browser chrome shortcuts; e.g. Wikipedia steals ALT+F) I believe we’re considering a change to revert to past behavior here."

    I agree that pages should not be able to override browser chrome shortcuts but only and only when the browser actually allows you to remap or (selectively) disable those chrome shortcuts. The fact that chrome shortcuts differ for localized versions and that it seems that IE7 already occupies a lot of keys for chrome shortcuts makes it very hard for site- and webapplication builders to actually make good use of accesskeys.

    It would also be nice if IE7 would follow the links of anchor-elements that have an accesskey defined instead of just focusing it.

  51. RuleZ023 says:

    I’ve just been staying at home waiting for something to happen, but I don’t care. Basically nothing seems worth thinking about. I can’t be bothered with anything recently.

  52. Serious Sam says:

    Hi,

    I’ve just got a bit of a question about the phishing filter.  Now, I’ve put it onto the automatic setting, but my understanding of how it worked (from reading the previous blog posts here), was that it came with some come of an initial list of ‘safe’ sites, that wouldn’t need to be checked if you visited them and after that it would only check sites, that hadn’t previously visited.  Now, I fully accept that I may have got the wrong end of the stick with that description but, if you go by that funny indictator thing at the bottom of the screen, the filter seems to check and re-check abosolutely every singly webpage you’ve ever visited, even within the same browser session, when using the ‘back’/’foward’/’refresh’ functions.  Like I say, it’s probably just my understanding that’s the issue here, so I’d appreciate any clarification.  Thanks.

    P.S Rulz, not to sound unsympathetic here (and not sure if this’ll get my comment deleted), but unless you couldn’t tell by the previous posts here, this is a microsoft blog, dealing specifically with IE and therefore not a councilling service.  If you are feeling lonely – and you clearly have some access to the internet – then maybe you should join and online dating service, or something.

  53. EricLaw [MSFT] says:

    @Sam: The Phishing Filter runs on all pages & navigations, but that doesn’t mean that the webservice is being contacted.  On the latest builds, you can actually use Fiddler to watch when the webservice is contacted (Queries go to https://urs.microsoft.com)

  54. RuleZ023 says:

    retty much nothing seems worth thinking about. My life’s been completely dull , not that it matters. I’ve just been staying at home waiting for something to happen.

  55. RuleZ023 says:

    retty much nothing seems worth thinking about. My life’s been completely dull , not that it matters. I’ve just been staying at home waiting for something to happen.

  56. RuleZ023 says:

    Basically nothing noteworthy happening right now, but eh. Today was a complete loss. I haven’t been up to much recently. I’ve pretty much been doing nothing worth mentioning.

  57. RuleZ023 says:

    I haven’t gotten anything done today. I feel like a fog, but what can I say? I’ve just been letting everything wash over me lately, not that it matters. Shrug.

  58. RuleZ023 says:

    I’ve just been hanging out not getting anything done. What can I say? I’ve basically been doing nothing worth mentioning, but pfft. Not that it matters. Pretty much nothing exciting happening to speak of. I haven’t been up to much these days.

  59. RuleZ023 says:

    I’ve just been staying at home waiting for something to happen. Whatever. Not much on my mind lately. I guess it doesn’t bother me.

  60. 247Blogging says:

    The transcript from the May 11 th chat is now available online . The Chat was fun as usual and we had a blast. People seemed very excited with IE7 Beta 2 and were curious about what to expect in Beta 3. You can find out when the next chat will be at http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/chats/default.msp

  61. Dating says:

    The transcript from the May 11 th chat is now available online . The Chat was fun as usual and we had a blast. People seemed very excited with IE7 Beta 2 and were curious about what to expect in Beta 3. You can find out when the next chat will be at http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/chats/default.msp

  62. Weddings says:

    The transcript from the May 11 th chat is now available online . The Chat was fun as usual and we had a blast. People seemed very excited with IE7 Beta 2 and were curious about what to expect in Beta 3. You can find out when the next chat will be at http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/chats/default.msp