Search in IE7 (Part 2)


I posted previously that in IE7, the user is in control of search, and that changing the default search provider (as well as modifying the list of search engines in IE7’s list) is easy. In this post I’ll describe some of the specifics and recap feedback we’ve gotten from users.

The short version: the search box in IE7 is not Microsoft’s. It belongs to the user. Our guiding principle for the search box in IE7 is that the user is in control. Read on for details.

The Default. The typical default when users install IE7 on their Windows XP machines will most likely be their usual search engine. Despite claims from some people around the web, MSN is not “The Default.” The search box in IE7 uses IE6’s AutoSearch setting because we think this setting is the best indication IE has of the user’s preference. I do web searches every day to find feedback about IE7, and have read some positive feedback to date on this. IE6’s AutoSearch setting today reflects the other software (e.g. Yahoo, Google, or Windows Live toolbar) that the user has installed. Of course, if you buy a new machine from an OEM after we release the final IE7, that OEM can (and will probably) choose a search engine for you.

Consumer Choice and Changing the Default. The user is in control of the search box. If users want to change what IE7 or the OEM set the search engine to initially, they have several ways to do it:

  1. If the search provider is already on IE’s list, all the user has to do is select “Change Search Defaults” from the search box’s drop down menu.
  2. The user can visit a web page and click an OpenSearch link for that search provider. The user will get a prompt and can set the provider as the default. (Unlike other browsers, IE7 supports OpenSearch, an open standard, to make it easy for companies to offer their search technology to users.)
  3. The user can visit a web page that supports search discovery. The search box’s drop down menu button lights up, and the menu includes an item that functions just like the OpenSearch link described above.

Of course, the user can also run a program from a site to accomplish this result.

I should mention that Windows has technology that allows corporations to administer machines remotely, including adjusting settings and preventing users from changing those settings. In a corporate environment, the IT department could choose and deploy a default search engine for all its users.

Feedback so far. The short version is that of all the feedback we’ve received on the product, changing the default search provider is just not an issue for typical end users. Neither, for that matter, is adding or removing search providers from IE’s list. I say this because our users are not reporting problems with this task.

We’ve released a lot of builds publicly over the last year. We have over 24,000 testers involved in the TechBeta program who receive external builds of Windows Vista with IE7 when they become available, and to date we have received no comments about ease of use issues changing search providers while web browsing. The bugs reported in this area were all technical issues… the product not behaving as specified in this blog post or the previous one. We have a wide net — Windows Vista CTPs go out to over 500,000 sites — to find problems. Reviewers (who, while technically savvy, do a great job speaking out on behalf of typical users) haven’t called this out. Neither have end users in our beta programs or bloggers using publicly available releases. If you’ve installed IE7 Beta 2, please post a comment below and tell me what you think.

Dean

Comments (152)

  1. Jayson Blair says:

    Why don’t Firefox, Opera, and Safari support OpenSearch? Why don’t those browsers prompt me the first time I run them so I can choose someone OTHER than Google (like wikipedia!) as the default search?

  2. lsproc says:

    It would be a nice idea if you can change the default one in firstrun. I forgot to set my search to Google once and I got really annoyed when I couldn’t find what I wanted. Probably it is hard to see the text in the box so it would be nice to have it in firstrun.

    WHOA! IE beating other browsers in internet standards. Am I seeing things? That is just AMAZING!

  3. Alain Stucki says:

    I’ve got a great idea for you: Put a search engine option "all search engines" in IE7. So that a user can type in his text he would like to search and IE7 will open the result of each search engine in a seperate tab.

  4. Ron says:

    You should read pages 5 and 6 of this thread for some ideas in the future.

    http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PageIndex=5&PostID=185159#185159

  5. Quick question about the search box: Under what circumstances would it not show the default provider in gray text?

    On my work PC I have Google as the default. It’s bold in the menu and has "(Default)" after it. But the search box itself is empty. At home, it has "Google" in gray text whenever there’s no text in there.

    What could cause IE7 to not show me the default provider?

  6. rekire says:

    I think so there is already one standard to add a search engine, I mean that src files from Mozilla. Why must have every browser their own ideas to include this function?

    May be that the w3c will have the same idea…

    So long.. Is it a bad idea to include a src support?

  7. aapje says:

    I think the label ‘Change Search Defaults’ should be changed to something like ‘Change Search Providers’. The label should be descriptive so users know you can also remove search providers from that menu option, not only change the default provider.

    Also, in some screenshots I see in gray the name of the search provider that you are currently using in the searchbox when no text has been entered. SHould I see this, because I don’t.

  8. Benoit says:

    > Why don’t Firefox, Opera, and Safari support OpenSearch?

    I don’t know for Opera and Safari but the next version of Firefox (which should be out before IE7 final) will.

  9. Don says:

    I have found the search box to have everything I need in the Beta 2 final build.  The issue where Ctrl E wouldn’t select the search box when the address bar was in edit mode has been fixed (thanks!).  I have not encountered the issue where the greyed out name of the service provider is missing.

    It was obvious how to set up my prefered search provider and it all "just worked". I had not even thought it comment-worthy.

  10. Gabor says:

    I have a little problem with IE7:

    When I’m using it, and I would like to open a new page instead of actual page:

    I push F4 and I try to write the new http://www….

    But in IE7 I lookd the cursor cursor is jumped into the page adress but it didnt’t select the text… The cursor is flashing after the text…  I have to select maunally the all text and after i can write a new adress… It’s slowest than IE6. 🙁

    Is it a solvable thing?

  11. Xepol says:

    Yet another mislabeled feature.  Go into Tools|Internet options and you’ll see a label "add or remove search options"

    More like "remove search options" because there is STILL zero ways in that dialog to add a search option.

    Zero. Zip, zilch.

    Not the first time you’ve been told.

    Hey, its the second beta, it might actually be time to label things right huh?  If we aren’t expecting any new features, take out the references to them huh?  

    There is nothing resembling ADD there at all.

    NADA.

    Zip.

    Zero.

    NOTHING.

    Which isn’t to say that we wouldn’t all prefer something there that would let us add search providers rather than having to hack our registry.

    Still tho, without the ability to POST as well as GET, it is still only half a feature really.  There are plenty more site searchs I would add if only they were supported by IE, but it can only do query parameters.  

    Anyways, either add the add feature or drop the word "add" entirely as it confusing and misleading otherwise (another brick wall marked exit)

  12. The biggest immediate threat to Google’s dominance over web search – and hence the online advertising money machine – is Microsoft’s control over the PC desktop. It’s been clear for some time that Google deeply fears that Microsoft will use the rollout

  13. game kid says:

    An article about this was posted on a newspaper’s site.

    Google’s complaint is a non-starter, especially when they push the Google Toolbar and its default on us.

    I might just switch back to MSN to spite them.

  14. game kid says:

    …but yes, the "Add or" part of "Add or remove search providers" is nowhere to be found, as Xepol said.

  15. game kid says:

    "Why don’t Firefox, Opera, and Safari support OpenSearch? Why don’t those browsers prompt me the first time I run them so I can choose someone OTHER than Google (like wikipedia!) as the default search?"

    Quoted for emphasis.

  16. Jon says:

    Can you add international search engines like Google UK. Thanks.

  17. Steve says:

    I just want to confirm something here.

    Adding a site, to the search box, *requires* user interaction, and authorization, correct?

    E.g. I want to make sure, that unlike bookmarks in IE6, that the user must physically click or choose something, in order to "request" the search engine addition, _AND_ that the user must confirm this selection before being added.

    I’m pretty sure that most users would be highly offended to find (a) sites *auto* presenting the confirmation dialog… and (b) sites *auto* inserting their search engine of choice.

    I’ve seen many PC’s (IE6 and before), that were plagued by random bookmark and homepage insertions for pr0n, w@rez, spam and the like.

    As a user, I’m all for free-speech on the Internet, etc. but as a parent, my mind boggles at the lack of security in this department in the past, and I hope that this has been implemented with the new security options in IE7.

    E.g.

    The following *better* not be possible:

    window.onload=window.external.AddSearchProvider(‘pr0n_site_url’);

  18. bex says:

    F6 does this…

    "I have a little problem with IE7:

    When I’m using it, and I would like to open a new page instead of actual page:

    I push F4 and I try to write the new http://www….

    But in IE7 I lookd the cursor cursor is jumped into the page adress but it didnt’t select the text… The cursor is flashing after the text…  I have to select maunally the all text and after i can write a new adress… It’s slowest than IE6. 🙁

    Is it a solvable thing?"

  19. Stephen says:

    Two suggestions:

    1) Right-click search (using default search provider) on selected text.

    2) Option to open search results page in a new tab instead of overwriting the currently displayed page.

    Please consider these enhancements. In my opinion they would make IE7 a much better browser.

  20. I am finding my bugs with this than anyother browser. I just downloaded it and went to check my work, which is identical in Firefox and IE6, but with this some of it is screwed. I have not developed with it yet, so can’t elaborate with the difficulties; but will say that I hope this is not the final version; it appears you guys are not implementing all of CSS2 and or all of XHTML 1+.

  21. ajo says:

    I really like Alain Stucki’s idea of using the multi search providers on different pages.

  22. Dean says:

    Xepol: nice catch. Earlier beta used to have Add in that dialog. I just sent mail about changing the text in the Tools/Options dialog to match the menu item from the search box.

    Steve: yes, clicking on an OpenSearch link requires user confirmation for exactly that concern. When the user visits web pages, those web pages should be able to just add search providers and "spam" the page.

  23. Jason Cox says:

    I like the current implementation of the search box. It does infact give the user control over their searches and is simple to change. Google’s complain is without warrant, they really need to read IEBlog and even Channel 9 more before unleashing the lawyers.

    I do still find it funny that both Google and Yahoo! are using an exe still to change the default provider instead of OpenSearch.

  24. Steve says:

    @Dean:

    I pressume that was a _typo_!!!

    "…those web pages should be able to just add search providers and "spam" the page."

    I pressume that was meant to be "shouldn’t".

    Likewise, I want to confirm that the approach is 2-pronged.

    1.) Confirmation is required.

    2.) (Even more important!) User interaction is required to request the confirmation.

    E.g. The addSearchProvider() function can not be called from:

    onload, onfocus, onblur, onmouseover, onbeforeunload, etc.

    that it can only be called on:

    onclick, onsubmit, or as the direct result of clicking on a hyperlink, or form button etc.

  25. Knagis says:

    just wanted to answer a question about search results in new tab: the magic is Alt+Enter. It is the same for address bar and search box.

    Also the site could request the addsearchprovider() in onload in the beta 2 preview (http://knagis.miga.lv/imdb.html). seems that it can not any more…

  26. Mark says:

    "The search box in IE7 uses IE6’s AutoSearch setting because we think this setting is the best indication IE has of the user’s preference."

    I don’t think IE6’s AutoSearch is a good indication of user preference. A lot of people don’t use AutoSearch and even if they do they probably wouldn’t know how to alter the settings to use their preferred search engine.

    As someone mentioned earlier the easiest way to get an indication of search engine preference from a user is to ask the user (e.g. when they install the browser).

    If the user buys a new machine from an OEM you could have a "Lets sort out your IE settings" homepage with links to change the search engine and a link to change your homepage.

    What do you think guys?

  27. Dan Culley says:

    I have to say that Google’s complaint is a little petty, given that FF’s search box defaults to Google…

    That being said, when IE7 is first launched (at least when I first launched it), the user is taken to a page where they select their language settings. I see no reason why "search engine" (or "search box") could not be another setting on this page, with a drop down box that has the major engines (it could even have a "More Search Engines…" link next to it, if we’re worried about leaving some out).

    If the first one on the list was MSN, most people would just click through anyway, so I really don’t see why avoiding this relatively simple solution is worth the antitrust headache, especially while you guys are going through appeals in the EU.

  28. Jayson Blair: "Why don’t those browsers [Firefox, Opera, Safari] prompt me the first time I run them so I can choose someone OTHER than Google (like wikipedia!) as the default search?"

    Google is the default search engine in Firefox, because Mozilla is getting paid by Google for its ad revenue generated by the free browser. Additionally, one of the chief developers, Ben Goodger, is on the payroll of Google. And do not forget, both corporations are located in Mountain View, California. It is as easy as that.

    See also: http://www.scroogle.org/mozilla.html

  29. Jeff Handley says:

    I have been quite happy with the IE7 search, but I have a few suggestions.

    1. Ability to custom search providers, bypassing OpenSearch.  I have long used the IE 5+ tool for QuickSearch.exe to set up keywords for the address bar.  I’d like to be able to replicate that functionality in the search box, but rather than typing in the keyword followed by search criteria, select from the dropdown which provider to search with.

    2. I have always loved the ability to do <ctrl>+<enter> to wrap what I’ve typed in the address bar with http://www.[address].com.  But this always takes over the current tab.  Using <alt>+<ctrl>+<enter> to use the same functionality but into a new tab would be great.

    I would also like to add that I was very pleased that IE7 doesn’t appear to go through http://auto.search.msn.com or whatever it was, before applying the default search engine.  IE6 did this and it always frustrated me.  Pretty regularly, the response from the msn.com redirect would be blank, and I’d need to hit refresh once or twice to actually get my search results.  I’m really glad that I don’t have that problem with IE7.

  30. Sometimes companies do things that just leave you baffled. There’s lots of commentary out there that…

  31. dalmuti509 says:

    I believe that some of the reasons you haven’t gotten a lot of feedback regarding the search difficulties is that:

    1.  IE7 is not out yet and no other browser has supported open search up to this point so there isn’t anything to compare against.

    2.  Because browsers with open search aren’t out yet, hackers and advertisers haven’t released the exploitations of the new technology yet, but i am sure there will be some.

    3.  Most of the users in the beta program have some level of expertise with technology or they wouldn’t be in the beta program.  You won’t get real frustrations until a user who barely knows how to use a browser has added every search engine known to man to the browser and doesn’t understand why search always takes them to "Am I hot or not?".

    4.  Because IE7 is not installed on production environments administrators haven’t had the support issues with users adding whatever search engine they choose to the browser.  Hopefully you have made it possible to add/restrict search providers via group policies.  

    5.  Parents haven’t complained that their teen has added 15 different porn searches to their shared account, which they can’t figure out how to remove or stop them from doing.

  32. Adam says:

    I’m trying to figure out how to add.  Google.co.jp

    Google.ru

    Google.cn to my search providers how do I do this?

  33. Steve – Damn straight. We have no intention of letting malicious sites hijack this setting through script. The example you list is not possible. The only thing a site can do is make a search provider available to the user, who can choose to click on it and install it.

    On top of that, a site can’t even default to making their provider the default – only the user can do that.

    Finally, yes, Dean’s comment has a typo. He meant "those web pages should NOT be able to just add search providers and "spam" the page"

  34. Wendy says:

    "The search box in IE7 uses IE6’s AutoSearch setting because we think this setting is the best indication IE has of the user’s preference."

    BWAHAHAHAHAAHAHA!

    You guys crack me right the hell up.

  35. EricLaw [MSFT] says:

    @Xepol: "Still tho, without the ability to POST as well as GET"

    Xepol: Can you please provide a list of the sites you’re having problems with?  HTTP2616 RFC requirements for POST idempotency make it a less suitable verb than GET for this use.

  36. Marc Brooks says:

    Worrying about getting which default search engines NOW is rediculous.

    Concentrate on keeping IE from crashing ALL windows when one window has an issue.

    Fix the fact that merely allowing Google Desktop Search (which worked fine in IE6) to index browsing history will cause IE7 to crash (which takes out all windows–see above).

    Fix the seemingly random nature of when a link opens in a new window verses a new tab.

    Give me a way to DELETE Add-ins.

    Default search is irrelevant if the underlying browser is unstable and unfixable.

  37. Jon – yes we’ll have locale-specific search engines on our ‘add search providers’ page around the time we launch (I can’t speak to the exact timing only because I don’t personally know). For instance, folks in Germany will have German-specific search engines available to them on the main page, etc. And of course any user can add any search engine for any locale, but by default, we won’t offer, say, a Brazilian search engine to users in Canada.

    The beauty of OpenSearch however is that there’s nothing stopping anyone from customizing their search provider the way they want to. And anyone can author their own OpenSearch blob easily (just look at the instructions in our previous posts about it). So if you want to add google.co.uk, you can do it fairly easily. We don’t expect that only companies will author new OpenSearch providers. Lots of customers/enthusiasts will do it too.

  38. ieblog says:

    Marc,

    We can’t fix the fact the allowing Google Desktop Search to index browsing history causes a crash. We changed the format of the files and Google needs to fix their own bug. This isn’t caused by a code error in IE but within Google’s application. I don’t have an ETA on when they are fixing it but you should feel free to ask them. 🙂

    – Al Billings [MSFT]

  39. Adam says:

    <<<The beauty of OpenSearch however is that there’s nothing stopping anyone from customizing their search provider the way they want to.>>>

    Um yes there is.  I can’t just add google.co.jp. I have to know code.  The average consumer is not going to be able to add their own search engines.  And you know this.

    A japanese or chinese person living in the states wanting to search the co.jp or .cn will never be able to add them on their own.

  40. Shane Perran says:

    I think Microsoft should make google their default search engine after all Google does have Search MSN in a drop down on google.com.

    No Wait …

  41. Paul Redman says:

    I thought this was a good post and I like the approach Microsoft is taking here.  You guys are making the right choices in this regard and you should be commended for it.  So when I read a post in the business2blog today making incorrect allegations that MSN Search is the "default" I was a bit put off.

    See the post here, http://business2.blogs.com/business2blog/2006/05/the_browser_war.html#comment-16768383

  42. Adam – maybe your and my definition of "code" is different. See this link. It’s all you have to do to author an OpenSearch entry: http://download.microsoft.com/download/2/2/D/22DF8396-B420-4F75-9B20-04AD4AD9B5ED/MSNSearch.xml

    It’s XML. No compiler required. It’s NOT something that we expect average users to do, but the point it, it only takes one enthusiast or search owner to author something like this for their search scope and then everyone else can find & use it. If you have an idea for how to do this more easily, I’d love to hear it!

  43. Aaron D. Campbell says:

    It seems to me like you should take the default search engine from the current default browser…NOT from IE 6.  I know that would mean that you have to acknowledge that FireFox, Opera, etc exist, but it would be nice.

  44. Do AOL users get to decide the source of their searches?

    I don’t think so.

    Whenever an AOL user searches from the box incorporated in the AOL browser, he-she gets the results from only one source.

  45. Mike says:

    "We’ve released a lot of builds publicly over the last year. We have over 24,000 testers involved in the TechBeta program… "

    So let me get this, you are implying that normal users should get it because techies get it !?

    Wow, normal users will never change it because 1) they don’t know what a "default search engine" means, nor should they know 2) they have no clue how to make that change even if you tell them : just see how they deal with OK/Cancel dialogs.

  46. samfind says:

    What coding do you use in the HTML (PHP) to create a link on a webpage that will open the link in a new tab in IE7?

    You obviously have the functionality to open a link to a new window, and now that you have tabs, it only makes sense to make it so the developer can control the opening of a tab.  I know about the ability of the user to adjust the Tools, Internet Options, Tab Settings, so that a Pop Up will open in the new Tab.  That is not what I am asking about – I am looking for developer control for a webpage that requires functionality in multiple tabs.

    Furthermore, if there is a way to control whether the tab opens in front of the active tab that you have open or behind that tab, please advise.

    Lastly, if there is a way to control which tab will be opened, that would be very helpful.  First tab, the tab between the first and second tab, the last tab, etc.

  47. ieblog says:

    Samfind,

    There is no code to specifically open a link in a new tab. We made a design decision to not do this. Opening a new window and opening a new tab are the same action depending on the settings that a user has chosen in their Internet Options. There is no way to differentiate the action through code.

    If there was a way to open a new tab in front by means of code, it opens things up to the potential of sites spamming users with tabs (just like popups but within your IE window). We chose the current design to not make another avenue for spamming people available to people with bad intentions.

    – Al Billings [MSFT]

  48. Samfind: no as a web page owner you cannot control or target tabs. It’s up to the user how/where web pages open (in tabs, in pop-ups, in new windows). We are not allowing web pages to target specific tabs or else we’d have to ship a tab blocker too! Please read the other blog posts here about tabs for more information.

  49. Old School says:

    The search field is pretty broken. Familiar keystrokes like Ctrl-A (as in select all so I can retype the entire search term at once) and Ctrl-Backspace (erase word) don’t work. Ctrl-Backspace inserts the ugly block character! How many different types of text input control do we need at once?

    Overall it’s hard to use – Why do I have to seek out a directory of search engines, choose one from the somewhat limited selection, then confirm with yet another dialog to read and understand before clicking? It’s not hard to follow or explain to someone, but it is needlessly cumbersome.

    Just include a few popular search engines by default, and it will immediately be more user-friendly for all users and have "advanced features" for power users.

  50. ieblog says:

    Old School,

    If we include "a few popular search engines" by default, which ones would they be? Who determines it? If you own a search engine and don’t get included, will you sue Microsoft because of it?

    You don’t need to seek out a directory of search engines. People, including your favorite search engine, whomever it is, can have a link on their site that will load the search engine into IE as long as you agree to add it. It isn’t hard to do at all (which is why we created one to search the IEBlog at one point, for example).

    – Al Billings [MSFT]

  51. Molly says:

    Viktor Krammer: "Google is the default search engine in Firefox, because Mozilla is getting paid by Google for its ad revenue generated by the free browser. Additionally, one of the chief developers, Ben Goodger, is on the payroll of Google. And do not forget, both corporations are located in Mountain View, California. It is as easy as that."

    Can you explain why Apple’s Safari not only defaults to Google, but lacks any ability to add any other search engines (let alone change the default)?

  52. William says:

    If a webpage has three iframes in it, how do you control the back, forward, refresh and closing of the iframe independently for each iframe using PHP?  

    For example, if you have http://microsoft.com, http://yahoo.com, and http://wellsfargo.com in three iframes in one browser window and you

    i.   click a link in the iframe that Microsoft is in and then you

    ii.  click a link in the iframe that Yahoo is in and then you

    iii. click a link in the iframe that Microsoft is in

    we have not been able to make a back button on the web page that would control the iframes independently.  Currently pressing back after you clicked the Microsoft link the second time would control the Microsoft iframe and the back again would control the Yahoo iframe and then back again would control the Microsoft iframe.  

    What we are trying to do is make an iframe the active iframe and then make the back, forward, refresh and close buttons control that iframe independently of the other iframes in the browser window.  I understand that there is one history for each browser window, but each iframe has a name and id, but that does not seem to help in implementing independent back, forward, refresh and close buttons.

    Furthermore, some websites, Microsoft excluded, do not behave well in iframes, Yahoo and Wells Fargo for example.  How do we contain these websites in an iframe unless the user right clicks and opens in a new window or tab?

  53. Mike: no, that’s not what we’re implying.

  54. SurrealLogic says:

    Changing and managing the search providers is extremely trivial. I’ve already changed my default to Google and often use Wikipedia and MSN search too. I do find it funny that everytime I go to http://www.google.com they still put a little popup in the upper-right corner of my screen with an arrow pointing to the search box with a link to set it to them. If It was so hard for the user or competitors, would they be able to add a single link to set themselves as search provider? Puh-lease.

  55. game kid says:

    "I do find it funny that everytime I go to http://www.google.com they still put a little popup in the upper-right corner of my screen with an arrow pointing to the search box with a link to set it to them."

    They can determine the browser in use (to the extent it is not "lying" or "spoofing") but cannot determine the search engine in use.

    I’d say it’s a good thing; I don’t need to see "Google sucks.  Try Yahoo! as the default instead!" should Yahoo! notice.

  56. Adam says:

    <<If you have an idea for how to do this more easily, I’d love to hear it!>>  

    I understand what you are trying to do.  But this is just not that simple for the average user.  

    A page similar to http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/searchguide/default_new.mspx  but with the ability for users to add more search engines easily on it. They shouldn’t have to search google to find them or go through a site that they will never understand.  Everything should be in one place.  And saying opensearch is that beast is a lie.

    The way you are doing it is saying that the average user is just to dumb to know what search engine they should want to surf so make it as hard as possible to get them when it should be as simple as adding say google.co.jp to the list.

    This is WAY more complicated then it should be.

  57. Aaron:

    "It seems to me like you should take the default search engine from the current default browser…NOT from IE 6.  I know that would mean that you have to acknowledge that FireFox, Opera, etc exist, but it would be nice."

    How do you determine what search engine the default browser uses? Some use registry entries, some use files located in a specific location, others use another possible method.

    I’ll put it more simply: No one else in their right mind working on ONE SINGLE product would do the research necessary on EVERY COMPETING product to offer this. Currently to provide what you’re asking you’d have to know the location of each competitor’s search provider. You could try asking them nicely but most likely you’re left with installing the browser and figuring it out yourself. If you were a Microsoft employee do you think they would pay you for the time spent on that research? Should they be able to provided the company is owned by shareholders and not the CEO?

    I think it’s a great idea in CONCEPT. Implementation is a whole other can of worms. I would not like to code against x number of moving targets that don’t have ANY standard shared across them for this sort of thing. The likelyhood that these browsers will make significant changes in this area are low but you’re introducing something into a system that could potentially fail easily. That would mean that any time this feature breaks, a patch coupled with HUGE amounts of testing would have to be done for even the most trivial change. If IE were just a browser and not a platform then MS could justify this type of behavior but since the platform is embedded into their OS, they have to reduce anything that has a heavy reliance on external dependencies otherwise they’re making constant updates to something that shipped a long time ago. That’s fine for security reasons but changing the design mid-application would be foolish.

  58. John says:

    Qoute" The main difference between the IE7 search box and the Firefox and Opera search boxes is that the IE7 search box comes preloaded with only one search provider: MSN. Firefox and Opera both include a half-dozen or so providers when you install them. (You can add additional search engines in all three.)

    Well, that, and Firefox doesn’t have a setting for a "default" provider. It "defaults" to the last one you used, which can be helpful if, say, you use Google most of the time and want to do a bunch of IMDB lookups in a row. (Yes, you can add IMDB as a search engine.) Of course, if you’ve never used the box before, it starts out with Google…"

    i have tested ie7 and i think it it is time for  ie to drop opensearch. i also noticed that they have prety much coppied firefox in layout and functionability.

  59. Adam: Ok I see what you’re saying. We do want to make it easy for regular users to discover and add search providers. Don’t expect that what you see today will be the ultimate experience when we ship. Also, it sounds one of us made a statement that led you to believe that there’s something inherent in OpenSearch that will make it easy for users to discover/add providers (hence your comment "And saying opensearch is that beast is a lie."). That’s not what we meant: what we mean is it’s a great & easy way to allow extensibility in the search space. Discoverability is a separate issue and is something that we’ll work on over time.

  60. Rob says:

    Since appearances do matter, please consider making the last possible action that you could do, in other words aks the users to choose a default search engine when they first launch their browser. After all, there is no reason not to do that and since users have to set up their Internet connection at the beginning anyway and their proxy etc, why not their default search providor? At least give a very good reason why you won’t let a user choose their default search engine at first launch? To my mind, even though Google might be overdoing it, the IE team should still show their good intentions in practice and allow the user the choice of search engine at first user of IE7. If you don’t do that then you continue to run the risk to be accused of taking advantage of your strong market share to push MSN onto users. There is no reason why you should not allow the user the choice if as you say you want the user to be in control. In addition, one extra step at first launch will not incovenience users but will do a lot to show you intentions of not taking advantage of your market share to push MSN. If you don’t allow this then Google’s accusations will continue to have at least some footing. Why should you argue about it? Allow the user to choose at first run. Easy!

  61. RAD Moose says:

    I was able to change the search engine on day one.  I then visited Google and saw a "popup" that told me to click to change my default to Google.  I did it just to see it work.  However, instead of finding the Google that was already there, it added "Search Google".  I used that for awhile, but once I saw A9/Amazon change to Windows Live, I wanted it instead of Google or even MSN.

    But it wasn’t available on the pull down nor on the find more… page.  I thought hope was lost, so I went over to A9 just to see what was happening… and then over to WindowsLive… I have to say I was impressed with the autodiscovery feature.

    Now, WindowsLive Search is my default search engine on IE7b2

  62. RAD Moose says:

    I was able to change the search engine on day one.  I then visited Google and saw a "popup" that told me to click to change my default to Google.  I did it just to see it work.  However, instead of finding the Google that was already there, it added "Search Google".  I used that for awhile, but once I saw A9/Amazon change to Windows Live, I wanted it instead of Google or even MSN.

    But it wasn’t available on the pull down nor on the find more… page.  I thought hope was lost, so I went over to A9 just to see what was happening… and then over to WindowsLive… I have to say I was impressed with the autodiscovery feature.

    Now, WindowsLive Search is my default search engine on IE7b2

  63. /cry says:

    Google is complaining about the search box in IE7 that appears to default to MSN Search for searching,…

  64. Andrew Calvo says:

    Go IE7 team! You folks are leading the way in allowing the end user to have complete customization over their search defaults, in addition, supporting Open Search & allowing the user to easily change it when they visit a search engine is great!

    Anything that Google might say about IE7 has no merit in this situation.

  65. Timothy McClanahan says:

    Typical end users do not change any defaults. It’s comments like this that indicate that there is NO change in MS behavior when it comes to the new version of IE, and certainly ignoring the system setting for ClearType is not ’empowering’ users. Removing features from previous versions doesn’t, either (though I’m willing to give you the benefit of the doubt on this one since you’re still in beta).

    Fortunately for MS, the only people using IE are ones that don’t know Firefox is out there. To them, *any* improvement will give you your needed "the users love it!" response.

    "Sucks less than before" shouldn’t be a design goal. You’ve made significant strides in CSS support, which is great, though you’re still pretty far from the ideal. However, you’ve completely ruined the UI, especially in the area of customizability. Hopefully this is just an incomplete part of the beta.

    Saying that your CSS support will "improve in future releases" shows the utter contempt for the web development community you so obviously have, and shows a complete lack of understanding that we have to SUPPORT this ‘temporary’ version for YEARS afterwards, no matter how much you improve it in versions beyond 7.

    Removing the * hack? More contempt for the web development community, making it harder for us to route around any CSS issues in IE7.

    Honestly – IE6 UI with tabs, and spend all the rest of your time on CSS and security would’ve been just FINE. THIS UI, as represented by IE7 beta 2, is just sad. If you continue to piss off the web developers, it just makes it that much more likely that we’ll refuse to work around your browsers faults in the future. I’ve certainly done so already with all the sites I create.

    Good luck with that.

  66. Scott says:

    "[FUD-ALERT]Unlike other browsers, IE7 supports OpenSearch, an open standard[/FUD-ALERT], to make it easy for companies to offer their search technology to users."

    FACT1:  The search function in FF is called Mycroft and is based on an older standard called Sherlock.  Mycroft is also an open standard.  FYI, Mycroft is Sherlock Holmes’ brother.

    FACT2:  It is true that Mycroft is limited.  My croft does not provide an easy means of notifying you that a search plugin exists.

    FACT3:  OpenSearch 1.1 is not actually an ‘open’ standard.  It is in fact controlled by Amazon.

    From the FF development forums:

    "cbeard: OpenSearch 1.1 isn’t actually open, it’s available for other people to use, but it’s controlled by Amazon. So we aim to be compatible and extensible with any other emerging standards.

    ben: the implementation will be similar to OpenSearch, but the namespace might be different to allow us to extend it as required. We’re leaving ourselves open to wherever this ecosystem moves."

    FACT4:  The next version of FF will support OpenSearch (as the above quote mentions).  FF 2.0 will be released before IE7, and therefore will support OpenSearch *before* IE7.

  67. Riva says:

    "I do find it funny that everytime I go to http://www.google.com they still put a little popup in the upper-right corner of my screen with an arrow pointing to the search box with a link to set it to them."

    I never even noticed that! It’s not available on their localized sites. It also seems that Google completely missed the point of OpenSearch since clicking it links to an executable which doesn’t exactly inspire me to run it, even if it’s from a trusted source.

    That said, I still use the prefix feature to do searches since that makes it a non-issue to easily pick which search engine I want to use. In fact, I’d be happy if there was a way to simply get rid of the search box because I don’t ever intend to use it.

  68. EricLaw [MSFT] says:

    In response to the question about building more search providers, without code, I’ve thrown together a quick little page that can help you get started by turning a simple search results URL into a new search provider.

    http://www.fiddlertool.com/ie7/searchbuilder.asp

  69. phuguet says:

    Please please, please!! change the search text box to a combo box:

    Why don’t you let the user see his last 10 searches? like Google search toobar, you could drop down and select one of the last searches you made.

    This feature is so useful in the google toolbar that I am sure if you don’t put it there users will still download the google toobar and use it instead of your search box. Provider or not!

  70. Craig says:

    How about allowing users to create aliases so they could, for example, type one letter in the Address field and launch a mapped Web site. So I could type "m" and http://www.microsoft.com/ would open. Yes, I know this is possible through the registry. Why not BUILD IT INTO THE BROWSER?

    Same could be said for allowing the user to set up customized quick searches, so I could type "g microsoft" and would receive Google search results for the search term "microsoft"?

    If you want more good ideas, install NetCaptor. I’ve been using it for years and years with great results.

  71. Aston Stephen says:

    Google is just afraid because they have not innovated since 1996, when their search was developed. Google has done ZERO innovation since then.

  72. EricLaw [MSFT] says:

    @Adam: You’re very welcome.

    @Craig: It runs outside of the browser, but SlickRun (http://www.bayden.com/slickrun) works really well with IE for this purpose.

    @Phuget: In the search box, hit the up or down arrow keys to see the list of your previously used search terms.

  73. Defaults are an interesting strategy says:

    Microsoft surely knows by now that most of it’s casual customers don’t bother to change defaults, or any other settings for that matter. The only reason you’d implement a "default" feature is so people think it’s the safest thing to use.

    Really what’s the reason for a "default" search engine? Who’s smart idea was that?

  74. PatriotB says:

    Being able to search from within in IE is nothing new.  IE 4 came with a Search pane explorer bar, which probably had a default of some sort: probably a MS-owned property.  This bar could be customized as well to use other providers.  I don’t remember anyone crying foul back in 1997, so why should they be now?

  75. Will says:

    > "Really what’s the reason for a "default" search engine? Who’s smart idea was that?"

    Um…every browser does this.  It would be pretty stupid to have a box that doesn’t do anything when you type in it.

  76. Craig – IE already supports those shortcuts (and has since IE4). See our blog post on this topic at http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2004/07/26/197754.aspx

  77. Nektar says:

    You still do not answer the question why you do not allow the user to choose their default search engine either during installation or from the web-based search guide when they run the browser for the first time. Or, just leave the default search engine blank as other commentors have indicated and the users could be asked to choose when they perform their first search from the search box or address bar. Or, if you don’t like the above because they might not be so user-friendly, I am sure you could come up with many scenarios that would allow the user to choose their default search engine and also be user friendly. If you don’t then Google might at least have a point. Also, avoiding this subject and not answering the question does not help you. The problem of which search engines should be shown to the user for him/her to choose the default, is also not a problem since your web search guide page has already chosen to show some popular search engines and has inevitably left some out. So, if you at last come around to answer the question, at least don’t try to find any excuses by saying that: A) The experience for choosing a default search engine at install or at first run or at first search from the search/address bar, would be poor. It will not be since IE already asks for some settings at first run and besides users have been setting up their Internet + e-mail through the Internet Setup wizard without this making the "default" experience poor. and B) Do not say that choosing which search engines should be presented to users from which to choose the default is an issue because it is not. You have already taken such choices while producing the search guide webpage.

  78. Greg says:

    Does anyone else find it… curious… that Google isn’t taking advantage of the MANY ways that the IE7 browser provides to enable a site to offer a search provider?

    Methinks something sinister is afoot… They’re paying Firefox >70$million a year to be the default search provider for Firefox, but they won’t write the one line of HTML to offer to become the default for IE7?  Strange.

  79. I just cant believe they are screwing with you guys over this.  They pay big money to Opera and Mozilla to put their search engines as the default in those browsers.  As I told Larry Osterman over on Channel9.  Personally I would do like they do.  When Windows Live or MSN detect the Firefox or Opera browser, offer a script to change the search provider in Firefox and Opera to MSN search.  I am willing to bet they would start witching, moaning and complaining within a week if you guys did that.

  80. Oh and Dean, your boys have done a fantastic job with IE7.  When IE reaches the final release it will be my default browser again.

  81. Richard Kuo says:

    With all due respect, if you go through with this, MSFT deserves to get clobbered by the DOJ for billions.  

    Leveraging your OS monopoly into a browser monopoly and then using the browser monopoly to clobber search revenue is completely anti-competitive.  Like it or not, you are a monopoly and you are held to a different standard as a result of it.

    Google certainly has no way of flipping a switch and automatically becoming the default search provider on nearly every desktop.  No other company has that power right now.  And you think it’s *FAIR* for Microsoft to do it?

  82. KJK::Hyperion says:

    Opera 9 lets you right-click a search field (any search field) and choose "Create search…". That’s probably as good as it can get

  83. KJK::Hyperion says:

    Opera 9 lets you right-click a search field (any search field) and choose "Create search…". That’s probably as good as it can get

  84. Google say they’re not happy that MSN is the default search engine for the IE7 search pane, but when we look at the facts, we see that MS is actually FAIRER than Google when it comes to the Search Pane.

  85. Darcey says:

    I can’t believe how hostile some of the comments are on here.  Why can’t you all just give you’re feedback in a civil manner? Despite what you guys might think MS are not criminals (they don’t really kill puppies), they are just trying to do the best job they can. I dont think they deserve the amount of abuse they get from you guys.

    Personally I think the IE7 team have done a pretty good job overall and have been more than fair with the various search providers. I really don’t have a problem with a company using one of their products to push another (as long as they don’t go over the top) it makes good business sense to me. Do you think if google made a browser or if mozilla had their own search engine the defaults would be anything other than google/mozilla seach? Would you expect them to set MSN as default? BTW up until recently MSN search wasn’t even listed with the main list of search engines when you chose ‘add engines’ in firefox, I had to go searching for it. That’s now changed but I never heard anyone complaining about it at the time.

    What I do have a problem with is the way google constantly tries to get me to use their stuff. Like every time i’m installing some app having to untick half a dozen boxes asking me if I would like to install the google toolbar or google desktop search or switch my homepage to google.com or switch my default search provider to google.  It’s the same tactics spyware uses to get onto your machine. Why don’t I ever hear people complaining about that?

  86. Adam says:

    <<Leveraging your OS monopoly into a browser monopoly>>

    It’s not a monopoly when you have choices!  I don’t have to get a computer with windows.  I don’t have to use interent explorer.  You can’t blame a company for being successful.

    Google proves to come out as the biggest babies. This is Microsoft’s product, they can chose who or what they include in it. I may end up using MSN over this.  Only if Microsoft could get idn to display properly in their search.

    Congrats guys you really do have the best browser out now.  Now let’s get it out to the masses!

  87. Samuel says:

    My IE7 Beta 2 defaulted to Google because I had the Google Toolbar installed on IE6, which I used previously.

    I don’t know why Google is having a cow – I was surprised that I wasn’t even notified about the possibility of switching to MSN Search – my search menu shows Google –  Default, and has options to search for other providers, etc. – but only Google is listed and is default, and with no user intervention on my part since installing IE7.

    By the way, I’m finding that sometimes, sine links do not have Open in New Tab, only Open in New Window.

  88. EricLaw [MSFT] says:

    @Samuel: The "Open in new tab" being missing from the context menu is caused by a bug in the Google Toolbar.  I believe they plan to fix this in a later version of the toolbar.

  89. sykopath says:

    As a new user to IE7 Beta 2 I have had no problem with selecting my favourite search engine albeit mine was set on MSN by default from V6. The selection process was easy to set up ASK, Google and Yahoo search, these being my current ones on V6.

    Only problem with the search that I have come across is an instance of feedback being in all languages, with only a few in English, very confusing.

  90. Andrew says:

    I have just a few comments.

    It would be really nice to be able to remove the search bar completely. I personally use a search toolbar addon due to its increased functionality (mainly highlighting of search terms on the page and search history/suggestions in the search box), and so the built in search bar just takes up wasted space (granted, functionality to be able to move buttons up there from the ‘toolbar’ would be required to use up the vacant space of that search bar).

    From a cosmetic point of view though, if I was to use your search bar, it would make much more sense to me if it was located on the left of the screen, not the right. Personally, I read from the left to right, and so the left side of the screen is where my eyes default to. I’m sure you realize basically every search toolbar addon places their search box to the very left of whatever pane they are found in. That said, I’m guessing it is on the right side due to screen real estate. Even an option to move it would be nice in that case if a user simply doesn’t care about eeking out the last pixel of screen real estate.

    On a broader scope, I’m very happy with the browser. You’ve been very professional in not stooping to the level of Firefox/Google (and its vocal supporters), and the maturity counts for a lot with some people. 🙂

    Ultimately, the only way to keep the children’s whining down to a murmer would be to also have the search box determine if it was the first time being used when a person used it. If it was, then instead of bringing up the search results, it would send the user to: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/searchguide/default_new.mspx#

    Keep up the good work.

  91. PROGAME says:

    i still think you should add SHIFT+ENTER/CTRL+ENTER/CTRL+SHIFT+ENTER support to the search box

    and add an option to change the default (ENTER) action from one of the above

  92. Hans says:

    Christopher – [quote]We have no intention of letting malicious sites hijack this setting through script. The example you list is not possible. The only thing a site can do is make a search provider available to the user, who can choose to click on it and install it.[/quote]

    But Google is already trying to hijack my IE7!!!!!!!

    I don’t have google in my searchbar and when i go to Google.com there trying to let me download some stuped browser hijack!!

    Something like : document.location=’http://www.google.com/options/setie7defaultsearch.exe

    So they do not use the normal opensearch way but try to hijack my browser!

    Can you please remove the feature in the next IE build so google can’t see that i don’t have there engine in IE7 Searchbar? Because now it’s only Google but what about the warez and porn sites?

  93. Sagar says:

    Every one wanted to earn. Even Microsoft wants. To do this they will fight with each other to get a bite. This has just made a stir in the tech world.

    Both Google and Microsoft wants to succeed.

  94. Maurits says:

    > please remove the feature in the next IE build so google can’t see that i don’t have there engine in IE7 Searchbar?

    Google can’t see what engines you have in your search bar.  They’re just assuming that you don’t have Google there.

  95. Hans says:

    > Google can’t see what engines you have in your search bar.  They’re just assuming that you don’t have Google there.

    That’s not true.. When i add Google to my searchbar te big picture on Google is gone… When i remove it (like I want to) the stupid thing is coming back again…

  96. Maurits says:

    That little .exe must do more than just change the search box, then.  It must change the behavior of the browser somehow.  Shame, Google, shame.

  97. Maurits says:

    Hans (or anybody) could you:

    1) install Fiddler:

    http://www.fiddlertool.com/fiddler/

    2) Capture a request to Google WITHOUT the setie7defaultsearch.exe installed

    3) Capture a request to Google WITH the setie7defaultsearch.exe installed

    4) Post the results?

  98. 我一直认为,互联网公司对用户桌面的争夺,并不真的是看重桌面本身,最重要的原因在于,桌面控制着通向互联网的默认路径。微软和Google的战争,现在可能刚刚开始。

  99. EricLaw [MSFT] says:

    I believe Google uses a cookie to track whether or not their executable has run. If you delete browsing history, they start offering their tool again.

    I’m not sure why Google isn’t using the documented search discovery feature rather than this downloadable executable.

  100. hAl says:

    "I’m not sure why Google isn’t using the documented search discovery feature rather than this downloadable executable."

    Mayby the Google executable makes google the default search provider which is something the search discovery feature does not. For Google being the default provider means everything.

    @EricLaw

    "That’s not true.. When i add Google to my searchbar te big picture on Google is gone… When i remove it (like I want to) the stupid thing is coming back again…"

    "I believe Google uses a cookie to track whether or not their executable has run. If you delete browsing history, they start offering their tool again."  

    A cookie would not detect that someone removes the Google search option again. Somehow they must detect the browsers search settings. That is rather anoying because Google should not be able to see which search engine I prefer when I visit their site.

  101. I guess&amp;nbsp;people who worked for Microsoft a few years ago must have some idea what it’s like to…

  102. Derek says:

    I have no problem with the search bar or selecting my search providers. Like it said in the tour press alt and enter for the search to open a new tab. The only problem I have is IE7 freezes for a few seconds whena new tab is open. Keep up with the good work!

  103. Ashley says:

    The search bar works great! however IE7 Beta 2 wont download the picuters unless I have that tab showing. I always have to right click in the picuter spot and click show picture for it to download. Is there a setting I need to change?

  104. Fiery Kitsune says:

    Why can’t there be a "default search engine selection" prompt during the IE7 installation or "run once" routine?

  105. PROGAME says:

    he seems to be right about the google thing

    interesting….

    http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=57562

  106. Maurits says:

    > Google uses a cookie to track whether or not their executable has run

    This appears to be at least partially true.  I’ve made manual HTTP requests for Google’s home page that differ only in the cookie value — the one with no cookie returned the "set your default search" HTML, and the one with a cookie did not.

    However this doesn’t explain how Google knows they’re no longer the default search engine.  Nor does it explain how the cookie gets set in the first place — the download page does not set a cookie.

  107. PatriotB says:

    "Why can’t there be a "default search engine selection" prompt during the IE7 installation or "run once" routine?"

    What is the "magic line" for what you should prompt for during install?  How about default view-source editor?  I don’t see text editor vendors complaining that Notepad is the default.

    Remember that most users click through the Setup defaults as well, so you still have to have a default somewhere.

  108. EricLaw [MSFT] says:

    @Maurits: They’re using a cookie.  Run their tool, then click Delete Browsing History.  Delete All.  Restart IE and go back to google.com.  Result: They offer the .exe again.

    The download page doesn’t set the cookie, the .EXE does.  Executables can set cookies using the WinINET API.  See InternetSetCookie in the WinINET API.

    Google doesn’t (and cannot) detect if they’re the default search.  Try it out and you’ll see that changing your provider doesn’t cause them to offer the .exe until you delete your cookies.

  109. Nektar says:

    "Most users just click through the defaults." yes. But still if you get prompted then Microsoft would have done everything possible to be fair with the competition and not leave a major complaint area.

    Also, if users just click through the setup defaults then why don’t you adopt the other suggestion of leaving the search providor blank and prompting the user to choose one from a web guide (recommended since it could be easily updated and localized) or from a list box showing the most popular ones, when they perform a search from the search bar or address bar for the first time. In this way they will be forced to choose. And if you want then you could leave MSN to be the first one, thus the most likely one to be chosen by unexperienced users to be the default.

    I guess that we have talked a lot about this issue and we got no answer to the above proposals. This issue is too simple to solve if there is the willingness from the IE Team and yet … we just talk and talk.

  110. Will says:

    Am I the only one who’s sick of having to configure junk on startup?  

    I just got a new Dell PC.  I have a huge pile of applications on it that beg to be configured on first use… most of which also try to upsell me to something else.  Know why?  Because Dell gets paid by Quicken and McAfee and AOL etc etc to put their applications on my computer.  Guess what– Google pays PC makers to make them the default search provider on new PCs, and MSN probably does the same.

    As long as I can change/remove the default easily, and don’t have to configure it if I don’t want to (just try ignoring McAfee’s demand for first run setup!), frankly I don’t care what the default is.

    Why should MS make their product harder to use to feature Google, when Google can become the default provider in like 2 clicks… ~if the user wants~?

  111. Al Billings [MSFT] says:

    Nektar,

    It isn’t that simple. Does Microsoft have to list every search provider in the world and ask the user which one they want? That obviously wouldn’t work. So, what does Microsoft have to list? Who makes that determination? If someone is left out, what do they do?

    Leaving all that aside, does that experience make the product more confusing for users instead of less? Do they simply want search to "just work" and be done with it?

    OpenSearch provides very simple and easy ways to choose providers via a bit of xml and a link. You don’t even need to run an .exe on the user’s system like Google does today. IE7 leaves your existing autosearch provider in place. If you’ve already changed it to Google (by installing the Google Toolbar, for example, or by having a computer from an OEM that Google has a deal with), it is still Google when you upgrade to IE7.

    We have to balance technical requirements, usability (or ease of use), and simplicity along with any other requirements people can think of. We’ve chosen the solution that we think works best. We support a standard that anyone else can use as well, a standard not created by Microsoft.

  112. Al Billings [MSFT], Christopher Vaughan [MSFT]: There is no code to specifically open a link in a new tab.

    I hope that there will be code for the IE platform and add-on developers to manage tabs and open pages in new tabs programmatically. Please do not forget the developers, developers, developers 😉

  113. Maurits says:

    > Executables can set cookies

    I didn’t know that… good to know. Makes sense.

    It seems the .exe doesn’t set the cookie directly.  Instead, it launches this URL in IE (even if another browser is the default)

    http://toolbar.google.com/tbredir?r=defaultsearchset&l=en

    This in turn redirects to

    http://www.google.com/url?sa=p&pref=ds&pval=1&q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Egoogle%2Ecom%2Foptions%2Fdefaultset%2Ehtml

    (note the pref=ds and the pval=1 — I’m guessing DS stands for Default Search.)

    This sets Google’s PREF cookie to have a :DS=1: section as follows:

    Set-Cookie: PREF=ID=(…):TM=(…):LM=(…):DS=1:S=(…); expires=Sun, 17-Jan-2038 19:14:07 GMT; path=/; domain=.google.com

    and then redirects to

    Location: http://www.google.com/options/defaultset.html

    So if you don’t want to see the widget, modifying your google PREF cookie to have a :DS=1: section will hide it, even if Google isn’t your default search, and even if you haven’t ever run the executable.

    On the other hand, if you do want to see the widget, modify your google PREF cookie to have :DS=0: instead, or take the DS=# section out altogether.

  114. Fiery Kitsune says:

    "Remember that most users click through the Setup defaults as well, so you still have to have a default somewhere."

    Prompt buttons can be displayed with a null selection

  115. Hi Dean,

    Firstly, I love IE7. Tabbing and RSS support is great, along with he new menu set up.

    My comment (and Im sure I’m repeating that f other people) is, the Search in IE7 (along with RSS) is the feature I have probally used the most.

    I have all my fav web sites set up in the drop down list and I must say it has changed the way I surf the web. Most of the sites in my list don’t advertise support for Open Search but seem to use the common ‘+’ approach. At the moment I have to set these Search Providers using Regedit, will there be an interface for custome Providers in he final realease?

    Rich

  116. Mike says:

    I’ve been having problems with Firefox freezing ever since I downloaded and started using IE7 beta 2. Coincidence?

  117. EricLaw [MSFT] says:

    @Maurits: Very interesting, thanks.

    @Viktor: No, this is not permitted, by design.  The user should be in control of their tabs, not the web page.  Just look at how popups almost ruined the web.  

    @Fiery: That would be pretty annoying.

    @Richard: What do you mean when you say the "common + approach"?  

    For sites that don’t offer a provider, you can easily build your own.  See http://www.fiddlertool.com/ie7/searchbuilder.asp

  118. AsparaGus says:

    I found it picked up my default preference to use Google so I found the whole issue being written about a bit of a tempest in a teapot.

  119. EricLaw,

    I imagine there is a better description, but the use of a plus sign instead of a space.

    The link you provided was very useful.

    Rich

  120. Mike mason says:

    two big problems with the IE 7 search/ For one I would like my search results to open in a new Tab or window.

    And also I should have the option to remove the search from IE 7 if I want. Like you can with the links bar and other things.

    Microsoft please add this.

  121. Nektar says:

    "Does Microsoft have to list every search provider in the world and ask the user which one they want?"

    Of course not. Do you list every search providor in your search guide? No. You see, you have already made such a decision when building the Search Guide. You have already answer that question in the options you give your users when they want to Add a new providor in IE7. After all, let’s be honest: how many general web search providors are there? Only 4 search databases. There you have it.

    "So, what does Microsoft have to list?"

    The same list as you already produced, and thus decided upon, but also updatable. The Search Guide.

    "If someone is left out, what do they do?"

    If you give users the ability to choose the default search providor then who will complaint? We are talking about 3-4 major players here? I am talking about general web search remember, so do not tell me about others who are more customized search engines.

    "Leaving all that aside, does that experience make the product more confusing for users instead of less? Do they simply want search to "just work" and be done with it?"

    Come on. It is only an extra dialog with no default choice selected or with one selected if you would think that such a decision would improve the experience. In any case, do users find it confusing when they set up their Internet Service Providor or their e-mail providor. Why don’t you pre-select Hotmail as a default e-mail providor to make things less "confusing". In any case, you could mix the search engine choice together with other choices eg. the language ones so as not to add an extra screen and make the "experience" slower as you say.

  122. EricLaw [MSFT] says:

    @Mike: To have search results open in a new window, hit ALT+Enter.  (Alt+Enter also works from the address bar, by the way).

    I’m sorry, at the moment, there are no plans to offer a mechanism to remove the search box.

    @Nektar: Have you had any problems changing your search provider?  What have you tried that you had trouble with?

  123. dhigha says:

    Can you guys put the search box in the left hand side of hte browser in the golden triagle..

    It is very very inconveniet to go all way to the right esp in my 24" inch monitor

    thanks..

  124. The Jakester says:

    Frankly, open search in IE7 couldn’t be easier or fairer. When I upgraded from 6, the browser installed Google, which was my default search engine. It also reinstalled Google search bar. I appreciate that. Adding new providers was a snap. Thanks, guys!

  125. Nektar says:

    "Nektar: Have you had any problems changing your search provider?  What have you tried that you had trouble with?"

    No I had no problems with the search experience. As you can see, my comments were purely on the well-publisized issue of the default search providor choice in IE7 which was braught up as a complaint by the competition. My suggestion was that Microsoft could potentially resolve all and any such complaints once and for all, by asking the user to choose a default search providor from a list of the 3-4 major general web search engines during setup or first time a user opens up IE7, much like currently users set up their e-mail providors and dial-up settings the first time they run IE via the Internet Connection Wizard. I have also commented on why the obstacles put forward by your team which would prevent the implementation of such a scheme were, in my opinion, unfounded.

    This is my opinion which the IE Team can agree with or disagree. However, as a user of IE, I am still not convinst that your decision of following the IE6 defaults concerning the search providor which is MSN by default and not asking the user has no competitive reasons behind it. This is because in my opinion your reasons for not asking the user are mere excuses that could have easily been bypassed. After all, there are examples of Microsoft solving much more difficult user experience issues than a simple question and the choice of what will be placed in a list.

    In any case, thanks for providing such an open place for us to voice our opinions and I hope that my comments are seriously considered as my intentions are purely constructive.

    Thanks.

  126. James says:

    I just installed IE7 Beta 2 a couple days ago and have been impressed.  I found changing search providers to be very easy.  I don’t see a problem.

  127. Perusing my Daring Fireball Linked List subscription, I saw this story at the Times. Before I go on any further, let me say that this is MacStansbury, not PCStansbury, or WindowsStansbury. I hate Microsoft with a hatred and passion of…

  128. In particular klingelt�ne siemens advance cash loan online

  129. Indeed advance cash day loan pay payday advance advance america cash