IE Chat Transcript online


I just wanted to thank everyone who attended the IE Expert Zone chat earlier this month and point out that the official transcript is now available online. The chat was a lot of fun and included eating donuts as we typed answers furiously to keep pace with the questions. There is still some debate around the question that someone asked “Who is the nerdiest of the IE team ?” 🙂

We do plan to hold these chats regularly on the second Thursday of every month so please join us on March 9th for the next one. The full schedule of Expert Zone chats can be found at http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/chats/default.mspx.

Thanks

 – Dave

Comments (36)

  1. Bill M. says:

    I found the chat very informative and look forward to participating in the next round.

    A few comments regarding some of the replies I was wondering if I could get more information on.

    There were several questions regarding upcoming launch dates for future versions of IE,

    i.e. How often versions and feature updates will be rolled out?

    The responses pointed to faster releases but really do not lay out a time-frame. Is it possible to get this version road-map for the IE team released?

    I have repeatedly read about the teams decision not to do a side-by-side or support multiple installations of older versions of IE.

    I really think a developer edition of IE should be developed that emulates the rendering engine of the older versions so we can ensure our customers, no matter where they are or what version of IE they are using, are getting the best web experience possible.

    DEVIE would be of great benefit to developers all around. It would be much more time and resource effective if you could simply click a button with drop menu on an existing page and have it re-render emulating the older browser.

    Throw in JScript, VBScript, CSS debugger and syntax highlighter with reference capability (onboard or linked to MSDN) and you got yourself a winner!

    Overall, great progress and I thank you all for a job well done! 🙂 Keep up the great work!

  2. Eduardo Valencia says:

    please please!

    Add this feature : Merge separate IE windows into tabs!,i want it please!

  3. JoeM says:

    I chat was alot of fun.  We were able to give you some suggestions, etc.  and everyone was able to get an answer.  Alot of fun an very informative.

  4. game kid says:

    "Q: A request, please make Ctrl + Scroll change the font size and not Page Zoom."

    Oh, God, NO.  Please ignore that comment.

    The font-size feature is ancient.  Leave the ancient stuff behind and let’s zoom correctly, like all the better browsers out there.  (Firefox doesn’t zoom images correctly, but that’s another bag o’chips.)  Better yet, make the CTRL+wheel thing customizable, to either font-size or zoom.  That’d be sweet.

  5. game kid says:

    "Q: Could you build in a google ad blocker? ;)"

    Why a Google ad-blocker?!?  Those are among the SAFEST ads I’ve seen.  Others tend to install or exploit holes silently and automatically on the side.

  6. game kid says:

    (I didn’t mean that Font Size itself was ancient, just that thinking it suffices as a zoom feature is.)

    Side note:  When I type in a URL that doesn’t exist, say, [ http://www.9317yrhio4h2f8742.com/ ], I get, instead of a standard page-cannot-be-displayed page, a page such as [ http://www.netidentity.com/FileNotFound.aspx?d=www.9317yrhio4h2f8742.com&mp=404 ].  This occurs in all browsers, and no anti-spy/adware app I’ve use so far (Windows Defender) seems to see anything wrong.  There’s little info online about it, and it seems to have existed since 2004, but I fear someone wants to mine the domains that get delivered in the URL by this hijacked error page.

  7. game kid says:

    "Q: Currently, Feed Discovery is non-functional. Can you share any information on how you plan to get IE to notify users of newly discovered content?"

    Odd.  The feed on my page gets discovered and works (though the one found on http://www.nytimes.com/ only shows an XML parse tree instead of the stylish feed look).

  8. Gary Schroeder says:

    I can’t figure out how to sort Favorites. In IE 6, you can right click and sort, why can’t you do that in IE 7?

    There is nothing in the Help file about sorting.

  9. game kid says:

    How about making the "Restore Last Tab Group" option another tab (the size of the "New Tab" tab, but with an arrow-( or "Open"-)type icon to distinguish it)?  That’d make it easier to see, should IE crash on us.

  10. redxii says:

    What about the Eolas patent lawsuit? What sort of negative change are we to expect from that? Did Eolas just want the money or what? I take it that Microsoft is the only browser developer expected to play by the new rules while other browser developers get off scott-free.

  11. I noticed many typos… which has got to be embarrasing, given that it took almost three weeks to get the thing up.

    There was a better transcript on Channel9 ten minutes after the event.

    As an example of a typo, do a "find" for the string "Linda:"

    Notice the final "a:" has been capitalized and bolded.  I’m betting someone did a find/replace for:

    Find: A:

    Replace with: <b>A:</b>

    and instead of going answer-by-answer they just hit "Replace All."

    Compare yours

    http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/chats/transcripts/06_0209_ez_ie.mspx

    with Manip’s:

    http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=161771#161771

  12. hAl says:

    I was there and it was quite an ok chat session from the IE devolopment team. Not much news but I wasn’t expecting that.

    I am happy you guys still have some debate over that question I asked though.

    Hope you guys find some time left to inform us about the possibilities of adding add-on/plugins to IE and the documentation about that possibilities.

  13. Will says:

    Who cares about the typos… they have better things to do.

    To block ads, put the target domain in the restricted zone.  in IE7, this blocks script and the ads go away.  cool.

  14. Kellan says:

    "Side note:  When I type in a URL that doesn’t exist, say, [ http://www.9317yrhio4h2f8742.com/ ], I get, instead of a standard page-cannot-be-displayed page, a page such as [ http://www.netidentity.com/FileNotFound.aspx?d=www.9317yrhio4h2f8742.com&mp=404 ].  This occurs in all browsers, and no anti-spy/adware app I’ve use so far (Windows Defender) seems to see anything wrong.  There’s little info online about it, and it seems to have existed since 2004, but I fear someone wants to mine the domains that get delivered in the URL by this hijacked error page."

    Hijackthis.

    http://www.hijackthis.de

  15. game kid says:

    "Hijackthis.

    http://www.hijackthis.de "

    Thanks kellan, though I tried that and couldn’t find netidentity anywhere.

    Maybe it’s a router virus or something.  I turned my router off and back on, and [ http://www.9317yrhio4h2f8742.com/ ] no longer redirects there.  I tried another URL to make sure, and that doesn’t get redirected either.

    So, with no other nasties either, I’m hijack-free for now.

  16. Xepol says:

    Will -> great tip, that should help with the REALLY frustrating pop under ads on comics.com/dilbert.com site (which link into the mouse events so that if you click anything, the first mouse click fails to do what it should, but launches an ad instead)

  17. Simp's says:

    Q: [48] will IE7 final support CSS2 generated content?

    A: Sadly no. We concentrated in IE7 in fixing several CSS issues and add support for fixed positioning, selectors etc. A good summary is here: http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2006/02/02/523679.aspx

    One issue here: we won’t be able to clear floats using xyz:after {content: ‘.’; clear: both …} (as explained on pie: http://www.positioniseverything.net/easyclearing.html). If the IE7 box model renders correctly we won’t be able to feed it the {height: 1%} hack ? The how do we go about clearing the float without extra HTML markup ?

  18. ALXM says:

    Could it be possible to pre-download all content of a webpage at one time. For example buttons first download theirs "onmouse"-event pictures after the user hovered the mouse over the them. Therefor there is a delay, and sometimes the user didn’t see the picture at all – resulting in a "nothing" where the picture should be, until the picture is downloaded. Downloading the pictures with the website could improve the visual apperiance of the website.

    Sorry for bad English.

  19. Interesting read, thanks guys. Something I’ve not seen posted about so far (not sure of the reason) is the fieldset tag, which might be used more if it looked better. Check out (for example) http://cms.designbynight.com/ (try IE6/7 and FFX). I find it useful for user interfaces, but doesn’t look too great in IE6, possibly worse in 7. Real shame it isn’t used more, but understandable considering the huge difference in rendering in current browsers.

    Also, I changed the colors of my Windows theme and the Back/Forward buttons and tab colors look silly in IE7 now. Any chance you can generate the style of the buttons/tabs from a system color or make them user configurable?

    Please don’t say "Change your colors back".

  20. ALXM – you can already do this with a bit of javascript. Not sure if this works in all browsers but it seems to in IE6.

    <script>

    Image i = new Image();

    i.src = "image.jpg";

    </script>

    All the images set as src are downloaded, and next time they’re referenced (like in mouse over) they get pulled from your disk cache instead of the net.

  21. Frank. says:

    Total Garbage!

    "PeterG [MSFT] (Expert):

    A: Thanks for the feedback on ClearType. We have more data now that shows that Cleartype enhances the reading experience even on CRTs. Plus now that LCDs have more market penetration, we well it is the right time to bring this great technology to our customers"

    Fine. Your data is wrong, but fine.

    Put the checkbox in the installer, if you want to gain friends in the market. If you want to continue to annoy the daylights out of them, leave it out.

    Those of us that know, and those of us that have damn good CRT’s, know that ClearType is the biggest waste of PC resources going.

    I do not want cleartype (talk about an oxymoron!) ever.  Not today, not tomorrow, not ever.  Of course, if you had an open bug tracking system, you would see that I’m one of thousands that feel this way.  Multiply that by the population that uses the browser, but doens’t provide feedback, and you can *clearly* tell, that this is a huge mistake in the making.  IE7 will live in user’s mindstate for a long time.  I wouldn’t want to have this mistake attached to my user’s (read paying customers) memories 2,3,5 years down the road.

    Frank.

  22. Malvin says:

    hi .. this is unrelat, but why the standart font looks a little bit different (fuzzier) than in ie6?

    I wanna go back to 6 just because of it.

    Malvin

  23. Lordmike says:

    @Malvin–

    Check out http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2006/02/03/524367.aspx

    Where it states:

    "We do realize and have received feedback that not everyone is using an LCD and that some people may not like ClearType text rendering. So it is important to us that we provide a way of disabling ClearType. If you do not like ClearType text rendering on your monitor, you just need to use the option in the Internet Control Panel to turn it off. Simply uncheck the box."

  24. Malvin says:

    thanks.

    I can appreciate a quick response. I have a fairly new laptop and clear type font seems somehow harder to read. Maybe it’s just a personal preference.

    What is the appropriate forum to post my suggestions/questions about various topics?

    Thanks again.

    Malvin

    P.S.

    For ex. I am annoyed by button location. back/forward stop/home and option menu.

    I would like them to be similar places than in ie6. Can I adjust that?

  25. Malvin says:

    one more

    is it possible to blog adds on webpages as in Firefox?

  26. Xepol says:

    Malvin -> for some reason, MS has decided to spin research to justify cleartype as a desirable option.  I have no idea why, and overwhelming feedback is that it is the single most hated feature in IE7.

    I’ve seen 2 people speak in favour of it, and endless bitching about the fuzziness, mainly from people who invest serious money in their displays and HAVE the LCDs cleartype was supposedly designed for.

    Frankly, I wonder what the heck MS is thinking when it claims that not turning cleartype on by default in XP was a mistake.  Well, since it would bump the turning the "click" noise on navigation from the #1 option immediately disabled by most users, I suppose that it makes a twisted sort of sense.

    Mind you, this is from the same people who brought us that same annoying "click" noise that we all turn off whenever we install a system or update IE.  And lo, and behold, it is an IE feature.

    I gotta say, there are a LOT of nice new features in IE7, but cleartype is the second serious goose-egg the IE team has come up with (the click noise being the first).  I can’t actually think of any other feature in windows that inspires such broadspread annoyance, hate and contempt than the click noise.  No wait, if they turn on cleartype, there will definitely be a new #1 to take the throne of most hated feature.

    Uh, MS team, are you listening? Getting the point here?  Clippy from the office team wasn’t this freaking annoying (at least he was easy to get rid of, instead of having to dig through system settings in weird places)

    And hey, if you look back, I have a very pro-ms and pro-IE stance.  Seriously, throw out the paid for "research" and take the feedback in this blog to heart.  Most of us HATE cleartype, and we are your early adopters.  Turn it on by default?  Why would you want to turn off your early adopters by default?!? What are you thinking!

  27. Lordmike says:

    Regarding the cleartype issue… just a guess though!

    What if Microsoft has got feedback from companies like E.ON, GE, Flextronics, Orange, Vodafone and many other large companies that they want cleartype to be on as default in IE 7.

    Then we got companies who represent almost a million users which is a lot of money fo´r MS.

    So the people who complain are a minority and the people who wants this will just shut up in public, because they don’t care about people who don’t want it.

    Once again, this is just a guess. =)

    I don’t care if it’s on or not, because I don’t see a problem with cleartype as some flamers do. Yes, I have tested it on all pages I visit daily and didn’t notice much difference except that it was more clear on one of my monitors and blurry on another.

  28. Malvin says:

    this might sound trivial given the underlying politics, but have can I turn off the "clack" sound?

    😉

  29. __hAl__ says:

    "is it possible to blog adds on webpages as in Firefox? "

    FF does not block ads. (I presume that is what you ment)

    The blocking is done by FF extenstions like Addblock.

    IE7 wil not block ads just the same as firefox doesn’t

    In IE7 you might be able to use an add-on/plugin to block ads simular to the adblock extension in FF. However someone would need to create that plugin for IE7. At the moment however the IE team isn’t all that informative about the possibilities for plugins in IE7.

     

  30. Malvin says:

    guys,

    how can I suppress the "clack" sound?

  31. > how can I suppress the "clack" sound?

    It’s in the Sounds control panel.  I forget the exact setting though.

  32. Peregrine says:

    Changing, and/or suppressing sounds for IE is done through the windows control panel in the "Sounds and Audio Devices" app. Go to the sounds tab and scroll down to the Windows Explorer section.

  33. Malvin says:

    Thanks. One more.

    I am annoyed by button location. back/forward stop/home and option menu.

    I would like them to be similar places than in ie6. Can I adjust that?

  34. Peregrine says:

    There isn’t a way to do that in this build. However, I hope they do allow repositioning in a future build because I also am very annoyed by having the refresh/stop buttons ungrouped from the back/forward buttons.

    I’d love to know when the history is going to be fixed as it’s really annoying to me to not be able to look at any history older than the current day.