Windows Vista & IE7 Beta 1 Available


The information published in this post is now out-of-date and one or more links are invalid.

—IEBlog Editor, 21 August 2012

Beta versions of both Windows Vista (formerly codenamed “Longhorn”) and IE7
for Windows XP are now available. Back in
February we committed to releasing betas this summer. I’m sure it
surprises some people, but we did what we said we’d do.

How interested you are in actually running pre-release software should
depend on who you are. For example, I think that running pre-release
MSN Virtual Earth or the
Windows Antispyware Beta is interesting for everyone. I think
NetScan is less interesting for broad audiences.

The beta versions of
Windows Vista and
IE7 that have just released should be interesting to developers and IT
professionals. For this reason, the beta is available to MSDN subscribers
and a pretty small set of pre-enrolled beta test participants. Our goal is
to get feedback from this group, do a bunch more work around quality
(performance, security, reliability, etc.) and some features (e.g.
additional standards support beyond what’s in
beta 1, additional functionality around tabs and RSS, etc.), and release
Beta 2 much more broadly.

With Beta 1 done, you can expect much more active posting about technical
details on the features that are now public. We’ve posted an
IE7 Technology Overview,
What’s New in Internet Explorer 7 for Developers, and an
 Anti-Phishing Whitepaper. Based on questions and feedback from the
beta, we’ll blog and post more.

– Dean

Comments (296)

  1. Anonymous says:

    Get ready for a VERY ANGRY Slashdotting…

  2. Maurits says:

    My MSDN subscription is library-only

  3. Maurits says:

    The technical overview – a word document – doesn’t require downloading a .exe! Good to see that’s fixed. Kudos to the Microsoft Download team.

  4. Anonymous says:

    I’m not happy about this at all, for months and months and months we were told this would be public. It feels like we’ve been stabbed in the back to be quite honest. I am extremely dissapointed by this move. Microsoft and the users would have been greatly benefited if this was made more widely available.

    You think Vista and IE7 are just interesting to developers and IT Professionals? Are you kidding me? Have you been to any of these huge forums (I won’t name the names but one has over 120K members)?

  5. Anonymous says:

    Dean, this really should have been more widely avaliable. Not all web developers have MSDN subscriptions, but making things better suit them (by giving them access to the IE7 beta) will better suit everyone using IE as you will have feedback on what the issues with IE7 are sooner.

  6. Anonymous says:

    Currently IE7 for XP doesn’t seem to be available on MSDN. Has it been posted yet?

  7. Anonymous says:

    I agree with Shining Arcane. I really like IE, and it would have been great to give your long-time users the opportunity to test out IE without having to spend a lot for the MSDN subscription 🙂

  8. Anonymous says:

    MS doesn’t follow industry practice in that alphas can get new features and betas have the feature set locked, correct?

  9. Anonymous says:

    The Technical Overview made very interesting reading I look forward to reading more about the new features on this blog.

    I have to admit though, I did burst out laughing when I read: "Web developers have expressed some frustration with certain peculiarities in the behavior of Internet Explorer 6, especially in the areas of standards support."

    Nice bit of humour there 🙂

  10. Anonymous says:

    Why don’t the devs this beta is restricted to have the FRIGGIN’ CHANGELOG. They have no idea of the details of each change.

    You say you’ve improved CSS standard support. PROVE IT. WHERE’S THE DOCUMENTATION OF THE CHANGES?

  11. Anonymous says:

    very terrible choice to restrict this to msdn and beta testers. a lot of people were looking forward to the promise made of a public beta. as usual microsoft fails to deliver on its promises.

  12. Anonymous says:

    I can’t wait for Dean Edwards to post his reaction.

  13. Anonymous says:

    I’m sure Dean was invited into the Beta.

  14. Anonymous says:

    what happened to the IDN’s support?

    we’ve been waiting for more than 5 years for the release of IE7 and in the end Microsoft failed to deliver as always.

    I don’t have the smallest bit of faith on Microsoft anymore.

    hasta la vista windows

    gustavo

  15. Anonymous says:

    Microsoft is just asking for an illegaly leaked version of IE 7 B1 floating around. Yes, I’m really disapointed in this decision. But as soon as I saw "IE 7 B1 Released" headline, I knew it was too good to be true.

  16. Anonymous says:

    I don’t see it in the list of downloadable products in my MSDN list either. Is it a separate download, or is it only part of Vista?

  17. Anonymous says:

    Man, what a bunch of CRY BABIES!!

    Of course the MSDN subscribers get their hands on the beta first – THEY PAID FOR IT!

    I just confirmed that I’ll be getting beta 1 of Vista and, I assume, IE7 in my TechNet Plus subscription this September.

    It makes sense to start small with a first beta distribution. If MS released the beta to everyone, 99% of all the feed back would be slashdotters who are looking for yet another excuse to flame (read: most of you).

    You want your initial round of feedback to come from SERIOUS users of the product (read: almost none of you).

    James

  18. Anonymous says:

    I can tell you that you don’t need small feedback from 100,000 participants for you to realize that IE7 desperately needs to fully support CSS 2.0 at the very least

  19. Anonymous says:

    I eagerly await my copy. 🙂

  20. Anonymous says:

    And then you wonder why Microsoft are frequently slammed. It is a perfect example of why Microsoft are clueless as to how to listen and talk to customers. Widely reported as going to be a public beta, they limit it to a small subset of developers and MSDN subscribers who in all probability are MS fans to begin with.

    So the exercise then is to attempt to control the feedback as opposed to exposing the beta to a wide range of people who will critique the beta from all perspectives?

  21. Anonymous says:

    Well, I am glad to see that something is moving along, even though I still am disapointed in it being not public.

  22. Anonymous says:

    According to numerous reports… THE IE7 BETA IS CORRUPTED!

  23. Anonymous says:

    When on MSDN Subscriptions is it? I have Universal, but don’t see it…

    Thanks

  24. Anonymous says:

    Microsoft just made two big mistakes:

    Promising a public beta but only delivering a restricted beta, and not providing enough documentation.

    A restricted beta is a great way to test a product, but if Microsoft wants to improve its, when it comes to IE, dirty image, it had better keep its promises, and we got a promise for a public beta during the summer. It’s not about being a "crybaby", like James suggested above – it’s about delivering on your promises!

    Second of all, and I’d think Microsoft would nail this regarding the amazing size of the MSDN Library and other documentation, the "Improved handling of CSS" genre of writing your revision history is not a good way to go. It’s insanely important that rendering bugs such as the guillotine are fixed (since they shouldn’t have been in there to begin with), but for a company that promised harder work on CSS, there’s not really any details on what’s been added or even what’s been fixed, not even a hint in the general direction of the changes.

    I can’t help ending this comment with the note that the Technical Overview is a Word document. Doesn’t Microsoft trust its own browser to render that correctly?

  25. Anonymous says:

    wow, here I was thinking MS were trying to be helpful.

    I don’t remember seeing anything that said we had to subscribe to try the beta. Not to mention that you have to PAY to subscribe!

    Can I just ask WHY you haven’t release the beta publicly?

    I was expecting to be able to download it before (the US) summer was over, but I guess the vast majority of us can’t.

    You decieved us, where’s the trust?

  26. Anonymous says:

    Um, they say the beta build of IE7 on connect was corrupt anyways!

  27. Anonymous says:

    Scale-to-fit printing is an excellent idea. A related feature that Acrobat has had for years that would be exceeding useful: reverse printing. A lot of users with bubble jet printers that print face-up would benefit from this.

    A public beta would have been nice though.

  28. Anonymous says:

    LOL! The Acid2 rendering looks even worse in IE7…

  29. Anonymous says:

    I’m looking at past blog entries to find who said "public beta" when. I think we all assumed it was a public beta. I can’t find a place where a Microsoft person said "It is a completely wide open public beta for everyone."

  30. Anonymous says:

    I see Vista on the MSDN downloads, but nothing for IE7. I have seen different press releases here and elsewhere but no IE7 on MSDN. Someone says wait until aug 3, but this post indicates its available now? what gives?

  31. Anonymous says:

    As compared to FF 1.0.1, 1.0.2, 1.0.3, 1.0.4, 1.0.5, 1.0.6…?

  32. Anonymous says:

    Some of you claiming "Well MSFT didn’t say it wasn’t a public beta" are not thinking this through. The point is that we, as users, were *decieved*. When people claimed "Can’t wait for the Beta," no IE dev bothered to mention "Oh yeah, it won’t be public." They didn’t even say that it was a possibility. That’s a very dirty marketting trick, and from the reviews I’m reading, IE7 doesn’t look very impressive anyway. At all.

  33. Anonymous says:

    thanks microsoft, i’ll be getting my copy from a p2p client since you BS’d the public yet again.

  34. Anonymous says:

    Just because Microsoft have released a non-public beta doesn’t mean they can’t still release a public beta.

  35. Anonymous says:

    More testers always mean more errors will likely be found. Restricted version won’t be going anywhere.

    Remember XP when it is first released. Why don’t the MSDN testers find all the security holes before it is released? It is the general consumers reporting XP crash and spyware attack help us having a stable XP like it is today.

    Most likely no thing wil change if things keep going this way. Sign! Microsoft, you will never learn…

  36. Anonymous says:

    Simon is correct. If they said they’ll release a public beta this summer, they still might release the next beta publicly before summer is over.

    That being said however, I’m normally a MS fanboi, but I’m pretty disappointed by what I’ve seen so far in the screenshots of IE7. The weakness in IE6 for me is *NOT* the interface (tabs maybe, but I consider it a minor issue), and it’s not security (again, for me, as I don’t install ActiveX as readily as your average idiot user). The weakness in IE6 for me is the underlying rendering engine, which they better have improved upon by IE7 beta 2 or I’m so going to give Firefox a try.

  37. Anonymous says:

    And to top it off, the RSS feed was fubar again with this blog entry.

  38. ieblog says:

    Tom,

    I’m looking at the RSS feed in several different aggregators. Which one are you using and what problem are you seeing with it?

    Al Billings [MSFT]

  39. Anonymous says:

    Hey this new browser is awesome. Just one request for now. Saveing session state. Like when i close the browser it gives the option to save last opened tabs and open them back up.

    Oh also maybe be able to have personal settings for the browser itself saved to like an XML file so that people can share preferences.

  40. Anonymous says:

    hasta la vista windows

    gustavo

    Microsoft will sorely miss Gustavo

    *wah*

  41. Anonymous says:

    Who do I have to "upgrade" to beta test for Microsoft. I’ve signed up for all the appropriate sites. I’m a full blown "bithead" and I’m jonesing for my beta software. I’m also a desktop tech who desperately wants to know this software backwards and forwards so that I can market myself for that.

  42. Anonymous says:

    Awesome check this out

    http://mywallop.com/wc2%5C878649_per%5Cpic%5C13211356.jpg

    and microsoft fix the css support.

  43. Anonymous says:

    The betas may not have been intended to be public… But I’m sure warez groups and crackers are going to have a field day with all the stuff that came out today.

    With that out of my system, I’d like to comment on the beta from 5 minutes of use: This "beta" feels more like a "pre-alpha", Microsoft Update and Windows Update are now rendered "wrong" (With MS standards, you can never tell)…

  44. Anonymous says:

    guys, I just downloaded it, it’s crap

    It keeps crashing trillian

    God, this is worse than netscape 8, I’mm ditching it straight away, and have advised everyone I know with the link to it to stick with opera and firefox

    IE team, what the hell have you been doing,t his is awful

  45. Anonymous says:

    Great work on IE7. I’m really liking the minimal interface, and this release has ensured that less-stellar, foxy 3rd party software on my PC has been uninstalled.

    For a beta, this is impressive. Can’t wait till Beta 2 🙂

  46. Anonymous says:

    Where on MSDN Universal? I see Vista, but no IE7 download is listed.

  47. Anonymous says:

    Can I install IE7beta as a separate application on a production-system without breaking IE6?

    And people, remember it’s a beta before being to hard against MS. Also the "real public beta" might arive later in the summer.

  48. Anonymous says:

    I’m confused. I thought this version was supposed to improve upon the standards support. I guess that was supposed to be NEXT version, because as far as I can tell, all that was changed was a few bug fixes in the already supported features. This isn’t a new version of a browser, it’s a new shell for the same browser.

    I have to say, if you honestly think that you’re answering the wishes of the web development community, you are dead wrong. You have completely betrayed us, and I’m sick of it. The web development community will continue to strongly promote Firefox, Opera, Safari, and other alternative browsers until you finally decide to quit doing the bare minimum for the public and start doing it right for developers.

    The following is a list of bare minimum features that must be fully supported by the time IE 7 is released. If you don’t at least meet this basic list, then you have proven that you simply don’t care about developers.

    Proper HTML object fallback model, abbr element, q element, properly handle the application/xhtml+xml mime type, CSS "inherit", CSS child selector, adjacent selector, all four attribute selectors, active and hover pseudoclasses for all applicable elements, first-child pseudoclass, before and after pseudoelements and content property for strings and urls, table display values, max/min height/width, position:fixed, right and bottom, reasonable support for the standard DOM event model, and gamma correction in PNGs.

    I don’t care how long it takes, I just don’t want to see IE 7 until at least this list is met. You say you are listening to the developers? Well, here it is. Nothing here is unreasonable; most other major browsers have supported everything here for quite a while now. Support for all of this would put Internet Explorer near halfway to the level that the competition is at. Please, for once, impress me.

  49. Anonymous says:

    1. REFRESH button missing (can right-click instead)

    2. Toolbars don’t stay locked (Google, Canon Easy-WebPrint, & Pluck being used)

    3. Cannot move tabs bar from beneath Address bar. Top or bottom of browser window would be reasonable.

    4. Need more options on where and when to open new tabs versus new window.

    5. How do I import RSS feeds from OPML file?

    Allen

  50. Anonymous says:

    I am a developer, but not an msdn subscriber. It is distressing that I cannot try out IE7. I really need to see if any changes have an impact on my work.

  51. Anonymous says:

    I hope Beta 2 will be a public beta like Whidby. I just want to wipe out my semi-useless Linux system (cant get onto the net) and stick something good on. Explorer.NET. Sounds cool!

  52. Anonymous says:

    (THE REFRESH BUTTON IS POORLY PLACED TO THE RIGHT OF THE ADDRESS BAR, IT TRIPLES AS THE GO/REFRESH/STOP BUTTON!)

    BTW, did I say this beta blows hard?

    Trust me, I gave it a chance… 15 minutes to impress me. What I saw on my screen was a 15 month leap sideways…

    What I have noticed so far regarding standards:

    PNG Alpha Transparency is not fixed completely.

    The transparency disappears if you highlight the image. The transparency is supposed to remain even when highlighted.

  53. Anonymous says:

    All What i want to say is that ie7 is very diappointting. Pls study the Firefox carefully!

    i dont like firefox, but it is better than ie7.

    At current time, i use Maxthon based on ie kernal.

    ie7 is ugly and very ugly!

  54. Anonymous says:

    Could someone, who had the chance to play around with the IE 7.0, kindly confirm that new IE supports IDN (Internationalized Domain Names)?

    Best Regards

  55. Anonymous says:

    I was hoping for at least better JavaScript debugging information – none of that "error on line 3" (of what file?) "character 4" (what??).

    For some reason, IE7 refuses to display my site (http://verens.com/) – it’s not like there are any HTML errors or anything, so what’s up?

    The empty gray tab… couldn’t you at least put an icon or something in it, to hint that it might do something?

    I just had a look through http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/complexspiral/demo.html – IE still doesn’t render them correctly.

    I’m definitely not impressed.

  56. Anonymous says:

    Can someone point out where in the MSDN subscriber downloads this is? I’ve downloaded Vista but can’t see IE7 at all.

  57. Anonymous says:

    Anyone found out where the download link is on MSDN? I found IE6 in the operating systems menu (?!?) and Vista also but no IE7. I may be being thick but a nice "download here" link wouldn’t go amis…

  58. Anonymous says:

    …Microsoft posted the IE7 beta to MSDN. It’s under "Operating Systems|Internet Explorer".

    Now all…

  59. Anonymous says:

    Hello,

    I have used IE7 really it’s great, the best thing is when we meddle click on a link it opens in a new TAB, Great :), like that can you guys make this in IE7, when we double click on a TAB it should Close that TAB. Please reply on this. Thank you 🙂 .

  60. Anonymous says:

    Matt — I heard that IDN plumbing is mostly done; it’s not exposed in the product yet.

  61. Anonymous says:

    I am developing a next generation tabbed browser(currently based on IE engine, firefox engine will be next year, Pro version may have a little price). No kidding, what is the next generation of tabbed browser? You will see, not just the user interface and ergonomic features, but also include easy and natural way of storing, organizing and retrieving information. Now Google, Yahoo, MSN compete compete fiercely on the search market, the fire can be found on desktop as well. Search the internet is right, because it is uncharted territory,but the emphasis is wrong on desktop. This is your computer, you already touched the document, why you can not find it easily? Do we search or fumble a lot in our daily life? No! Don’t blame the explosion of information, don’t blame yourself not organizable. There must be something wrong,or haven’t developed properly. Our new browser will give you a critical part which is missing in the information chain for you browser experience.

    BTW, Should I release it before IE7 launch or after it launch?

    mikexml2002(at)yahoo.co.uk

  62. Anonymous says:

    Presumably if you install IE7 beta it will replace IE6 and do all sorts of dodgy OS type stuff? Is there a way to install it side-by-side?

    I find it quite bizarre that a web browser comes under "Operating Systems" in MSDN..!!!

    Also, will the finished version supported Windows 2003?

  63. Anonymous says:

    Why not open a new TAB when click a site in Favourite?

  64. Anonymous says:

    Dear Microsoft,

    I don’t want to spend over $1000 to test a beta.

    Regards

    p.s. Why do you make it so difficult for us?

  65. Anonymous says:

    I AM SO FRUSTRATED, MAD that sometimes when I type a LONG post, and then ACCIDENTALLY I hit some keys on my keyboard, and BAM my post is ALL GONE!!!

    And, YES, it just happened again when I was posting in another forum!!!

    I could hit F5 by Accident, or I could click on a link by accident, or I could be using a different browser during my posting, and by clicking in that browser, it uses the browser that I am typing in (Without my permission).

    ALL these has happened to me, before! And, if I were lucky, text were saved, but a lot of times, Hell NO, Text were ALL gone and pisses me off after!!!

    Microsoft, please Please please Come up with a save-what-I-am-typing method, so I don’t Lose my text again!

    Accidents DO happen, but what can you do to prevent it" should be the NEW slogan for Internet Explorer 8 or 7.5…

    Save what I write every Second, and when I press F5, or click a link or cause any other accidents…. texts will not disappear!

    Can you do it, Microsoft?

  66. hAl says:

    There is already a small review of IE 7 within Vista with some nice screen pics here:

    http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista_beta1_03.asp

  67. Anonymous says:

    IE7 fixes TWO CSS bugs?! TWO?!! And this is some big advancement?

  68. Anonymous says:

    After playing around with IE 7 for a while, I can only say that I am truly disappointed.

    First thing I did was to test it with some of Eric Meyers CSS edge demos. And to my surprise (well, not really) none of them that didn’t work in IE 6 worked fine in IE 7.

    Not even

    http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/complexspiral/demo.html !!!

    This means that IE 7 still doesn’t have full CSS1 support. Year 2005.

    I also tested out CSS2 selectors with no luck, :hover for example, still only works on links. This means no CSS menus in IE. I also tested other irritating bugs, such as:

    <div style="float:left; margin-left:100px;">this will have a margin-left of 200px instead of 100px</div>

    And again, bug was still there. So actually, what was really fixed in this release? I read about 2 CSS bugs being fixed. Wow, you work on this browser for years and you fix 2 CSS bugs? I don’t know if I should laugh or cry.

    IE 7 feels like IE 6 but with a new GUI. While the tabs are nice (welcome to the new millennium IE), this beta is nothing more than a big disappointment. Actually this even beats the Netscape 6 disappointment, and I would never imagine that could be beaten.

    Internet Explorer, R.I.P

  69. Anonymous says:

    "I’m confused. I thought this version was supposed to improve upon the standards support."

    I’m afraid you’re mistaken. IE7 is only a desperate attempt to stem the flood of people switching to Firefox. Improved web standards aren’t part of the deal, since the user can’t see them. They only see the tabs and the search box. Guess why these features have been implemented, while only two or three CSS bug-fixes have made the cut…

    > http://mywallop.com/wc2%5C878649_per%5Cpic%5C13211356.jpg

    I’m not surprised that IE7 doesn’t improve on standards really. MS obviously woke up far to late, and didn’t have time to make any real improvements: "Hey guys, we need a new IE with something new, something cool. You guys could whip up some tabs and a search box couldn’t you? Let me know when you think you could have it finished."

    "IE7 fixes TWO CSS bugs?! TWO?!! And this is some big advancement?"

    It’s obviously quite enought to bump the version number a notch anyway.

    "This means that IE 7 still doesn’t have full CSS1 support. Year 2005.

    I also tested out CSS2 selectors with no luck, :hover for example, still only works on links."

    That’s sad. Let’s just hope for a version 8 with some real improvements.

  70. Anonymous says:

    This is in regard to a post made earlier where someone stated that "of course MSDN subs got it first, they paid for it".

    We’ve paid for XP (and more), we’ve used IE6 and MSN, we’ve bought many many programs that run on Windows.

    Is that not enough? Guess not.

  71. Anonymous says:

    On the part of CSS support does this release represent what we (webdevelopers) may expect of "improvements"!?

  72. Anonymous says:

    Nice job on IE7 B1; I am very pleased so far. Couple of bugs however; where should they be posted?

    Thanks,

    Chad

  73. Anonymous says:

    Beta versions of both Windows Vista (formerly codenamed &amp;ldquo;Longhorn&amp;rdquo;) and IE7 for Windows XP…

  74. Anonymous says:

    Well I think the developers have certianly attacked the right areas, but we’ll just have to wait and see how good the standards support really is.

    I like the fact that they will finally be supporting other search engines, lets hope they sypport the same plugin standard as mozilla – the last thing we want is another set of competing standards.

  75. Anonymous says:

    The browser looks good – not bad at all for a first beta. My comments would be;

    1) As already mentioned, complete and reliable CSS 2 support is absolutely essential (although obviously not expected in this initial beta).

    2) The interface really needs some work – the tabs / menu / address bar mix up all feels extremely clunky at the moment. Especially when using ‘Windows Classic’ style. I really hope there will be some improvements in this area before the next beta – take a good look at Safari because it does such a good job with the interface.

    3) I managed to get it to crash completly by double clicking a Favorites folder. Although I can’t seem to make it do it again!

  76. Anonymous says:

    > when we double click on a TAB it should Close that TAB

    I kept trying to do this as well! Not sure why, but it feels like a really intuitive way to close a tab. An alternative might be a little ‘x’ to the right hand side of the open tab.

    The ‘x’ on the right doesn’t really do much for me, and it just makes it look like a FF clone! 😉

  77. Anonymous says:

    I have a couple of questions.

    > Internet Explorer 7 is prioritizing compliance to CSS standards by first implementing the features that developers have said are most important to them.

    Now, fixing two bugs isn’t a feature, so presumably there are at least *some* additions to Internet Explorer’s CSS support. So what are they?

    Do you plan on fully complying with the CSS 1.0 specification in the final release of Internet Explorer 7.0?

    > The final release of Internet Explorer 7 will focus on improving the developer experience by reducing the time needed for developing and testing on different browsers.

    Will Internet Explorer 6.0 and 7.0 installed alongside one another be a supported configuration?

  78. Anonymous says:

    Will the colleges who have the "Microsoft Alliance" (I think that’s what it’s called) get this beta? Email please.

    tcoulter at acm dot org

  79. Anonymous says:

    Jim: Where did you get that second quote from? That’s quite a promise really. But it means there is loads of work for them still to do, and it must be done before Beta 2 (unless they’re completetly crazy of course).

  80. UnexpectedBill says:

    (First off, what in the world is a Fiery Kitsune?)

    It looks like so far IE7 is out to mixed reviews. I’ve looked at screenshots and don’t know that I like what I see on the visual front. The design doesn’t seem well laid out or finished, but I guess that’s to be expected. Maybe I just need to warm up to it.

    Now some have raised concerns about the need to have an MSDN subscription to get this beta…I don’t know for sure, but I’m inclined to think that Microsoft did mention a public beta… I guess I have high hopes that either this will be reconsidered or there will be one later on. It’s so very hard to wait.

    I sure can’t afford such a subscription (at least not when I priced them) but I would really like the opportunity to put IE7 through its paces. If that means that I need to commit to telling Microsoft of my every experience in some way, then that is fine with me. That’s what I want to do–I want to really hammer on the product and (assuming you guys and gals on the IE team are really listening) relay the information I gather while using it. I’m not just looking to play around with IE7 and tell nobody of what happened.

    Anyway, I hope there will be some thought given to a controlled-but much less restricted-release of the first IE7 beta.

  81. Anonymous says:

    David: I got it from the Microsoft Word document (why on earth can’t we get this stuff as HTML?) linked to above as "IE7 Technology Overview".

    http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=718E9B3A-64FE-4A4C-9DDF-57AF0472EAD2&displaylang=en

  82. Anonymous says:

    Lot’s of people complaining about the availability. My experience says this is normal and historical in regards to OS’s at MS. You don’t typically see these things publically until they reach the RC (Release Candidate) stage.

  83. Anonymous says:

    I installed IE7, rebooted; when Windows came back up IE7 now crashes.

  84. Anonymous says:

    I rather like the new interface, I’ve just started using it, so I really haven’t tried anything special with it.

    Some points:

    1. Everytime I open a new tab, the same unneeded icon buttons pop open. A new tab should have the same buttons as the old tab, unless a user decides to change it.

    2. Opening a new tab should have the option of going to the home page, not a blank page.

    3. Tabs from other IE windows should be able to be dragged into another IE window, to consolidate the tabs from a popup (say, hotmail) into one IE window.

  85. Anonymous says:

    Thanks for the notification! Downloading now through MSDN! Feedback is surely to come. Can’t wait for full CSS2.0 support (HELLO WORLD! 🙂

  86. Anonymous says:

    What proportion of web developers (i.e. the people interested in IE7) have MSDN subscriptions?

    I’ve also heard that running the installer *itself* requires ‘Windows Validation’ (not just the download page) – seems overkill to me, but there you go.

    As for the ‘Phishing filter’ – who wants *any* details of their browsing history transmitted to MS for checking of suspect sites?

  87. Anonymous says:

    As a developer, I’m disgusted by what I’ve read so far with regards to the CSS ‘improvements’. I know Microsoft is a business; but seriously – think about what you’re doing. You’re turning your back on what is possibly the most important step forward in website development.

    I’ve lost hope now. It’s clear you’re not going to get even CSS2 support implemented properly for the final release if this is where the program starts. From a developer’s point of view – this is HIGHLY frustrating. From a business point of view – this is utterly foolish.

  88. Anonymous says:

    If I were a suspicious type, I would find it interesting that webstandards.org triggers a suspect site warning. MS Policy or just a bug?

  89. Anonymous says:

    Wow – so many complainers. "I gave it 15 minutes and gave up". LOL! Are you married? I bet not… If so, good thing she/he said yes when you popped the question… cause if she/he had said… "let me think about it" you would have responded "you have 15 minutes".

    Seriously, it only makes sense to release it on MSDN first. Do any of you people complaining not realize that this is the general process MS follows?!?

    Oh and regarding the bugs… It is a BETA people!!!!! And for that matter, it is beta *1*!!!

    Ok, now that I am past my rant, I wanted to make a couple comments. First off, it is available on MSDN download under "Operating Systems" and is only 10MB for the download. I love that part of it – it is small!!!

    Second comment – overall, stability seems decent with one exception that I have found this far. Amazingly, Windows Update page no longer works. That is annoying for obvious reasons.

    Another comment regarding the refresh button… Once I found it, I was semi-ok, but I do miss it. It would be nice to at least have the option of putting the refresh button on the menu where I like it. IMO. Which brings up another suggestion… it would also be nice to be able to customize the toolbars and their locations better. I don’t think this is too much to ask.

    On a side note – I love how compact everything is at the top. Very nice if you ask me. And another awesome improvement… THANK YOU FOR TAKING AWAY THE MENU AT THE TOP IN FULL SCREEN MODE!!!!

    Overall, for a beta release, I would give this a A-/B+ rating. And for you complainers… go download firefox and stop spamming here. 😛

  90. Anonymous says:

    Holy crap! I’ve never seen so many whienrs in my life.

    Did any of you whiners even read the documentation listed in Dean’s post? Beta 1 is a restricted beta. Beta 2 will be a public beta.

    Grow up. And learn to read.

  91. Anonymous says:

    A review by me, a web developer, can be found here:

    http://www.robertnyman.com/2005/07/28/ie-7-beta-1-a-first-glance/

  92. Anonymous says:

    Okay, the download is back in Operating Systems, it was missing for a while this morning.

    Feedback:

    1. tabs should be below menu bars not above- File,Edit etc. have alway sbeen top left of program. Why not now? Is that just my install, can I change it? Given that the UI layout is a firefox clone (and why not, that’s not criticism – it works!), this should have been kept the same.

    2. See comment above Re: Acid2 test. I mean really… I know it’s beta 1 and all but did you think you’d get away with it and not anger a LOT of people?

    3. NICE rss reader, saw the demo on channel 9 and it’s fairly good. Is a ‘live bookmarks’ or similar feature in there? I can’t see it so far and I use this all the time in FF to monitor read rss feeds ‘on the side’

    That’s all for now, this feedback is for XP sp2 version, not seen vista yet. Are the two (IE versions) exactly the same? I assume not.

    Anyway. a LOT more to do (esp. re: CSS 2.1 etc. you gus know more than anyone how important it is to do this or risk killing the IE brand forever as a browser) but it’s nice that you’re willing to show some progress is being made.

  93. Anonymous says:

    Two CSS bugs fixed ??? I’m disgusted…

  94. Anonymous says:

    "Both the peekaboo and guillotine bugs have been addressed, and work on other issues is under way to provide web developers with reliable and robust CSS functionality. "

    I guess a lot of people don’t read anything at all. Clearly MS states that more issues with CSS will be dealt with. Clearly they weren’t finished with it in time for this beta 1 release. So why not wait for that then, in beta 2 or the final beta/release candidate before complaining so much about the CSS.

  95. Anonymous says:

    Because it’s so vague, there’s no mention that IE7 will support CSS2 fully, which – I feel should be a paramount specification. The fact that only 2 CSS bugs have been dealt with thus far doesn’t leave me with much confidence at all.

  96. Anonymous says:

    And the fact that they’re releasing Beta 1 to DEVELOPERS makes this fact even more poignant, as they should have dealt with DEVLOPER ISSUES before the GUI.

  97. Anonymous says:

    Yes hAl that is true but Fen is right. There is no mention of other CSS2 issues. They should have made mention of this. Probably would have alleviated some of the bad press they are getting from developers.

    I personally am a bit concerned that many of outstanding CSS issues were not fixed in beta 1. ACID2 test should have been better.

    Lets just hope that BETA 2 follows very soon. Microsoft needs to step it up. Remember the Firefox betas were much more robust in execution than IE 7.

    Personal opionion, "I agree with much that has been said and unfortunately a little underwhelmed by the continued CSS issues"

    Keep working IE Team, I look forward to the next release.

  98. Anonymous says:

    > I guess a lot of people don’t read anything at all. Clearly MS states that more issues with CSS will be dealt with.

    And at the rate of one CSS bug fix every two years *, we can expect Internet Explorer to get CSS support on par with the rest of today’s web browsers in the year 5000 or so.

    * Peekaboo and Guillotine bugfixes since Internet Explorer’s release four years ago. Any more to add to the list, or is one bugfix every two years about right?

  99. Anonymous says:

    I’ve written down my thoughts on the release:

    http://kurafire.net/log/archive/2005/07/28/ie7-beta-1-release

    I must say, first feeling was of disappointment, but you can see from that post that I turned around on that somewhat.

  100. Anonymous says:

    For goodness’ sake – this is a FIRST BETA. It’s way off production. I loathe IE6’s CSS support as much as anyone else, but read what it says. It’s NOT a finished product!

    "CSS Updates – Internet Explorer 7 includes fixes for issues with the Cascading Style Sheets (CSS) feature. Both the peekaboo and guillotine bugs have been addressed, and WORK ON OTHER ISSUES IS UNDER WAY to provide web developers with reliable and robust CSS functionality."

    "Please give us feedback on all of the features and changes in Internet Explorer 7 Beta 1; MANY OF THEM, including the User Interface, ARE PRELIMINARY AND UNDER DEVELOPMENT and your feedback is important in perfecting Internet Explorer 7 for shipment to all of our customers."

    http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/workshop/essentials/whatsnew/whatsnew_70_sdk.asp

  101. Anonymous says:

    Not trying to add to the bashing going on here (really come on guys this IS a beta!) but can you uninstall IE7 after installing? IE7 broke MSN support in Trillian and I have to say I’d rather have Trillian than IE7.

    Help?

  102. Anonymous says:

    Seems the background:fixed has been _half_ fixed… Look at the "CSS X-Ray" page ( http://www.biocandy.dk/test.php ) : it doesn’t work propely – i didn’t expected it – but on my PC (3gHz) it takes 70% of the CPU power ! A single animated gif can’t do that…

  103. Anonymous says:

    Is it in BETA 1? Will it be forthcoming in BETA 2? It seems the answer to the former is no, so I’ll emphatically assert that it must be in BETA 2.

    I think the danger here that most see and some don’t see is that early beta’s have a habit of becoming final products when schedules slip. Since BETA 1 didn’t pass ACID2 those of us prone to worry question the IE team’s commitment to passing the test and fear the probability of failure that might ensue from a marginal commitment.

  104. Anonymous says:

    Crybabies!

    Windows Vista beta 1 is lookig good to me (I’m a developer). I expect beta 2 to be more complete visually.

  105. Anonymous says:

    Due to te cash made by Microsoft, you are not credible, Dean. That’s all.

  106. Anonymous says:

    I’m sure anyone stopping by here has already read that IE7 Beta 1 &amp; Windows Vista Beta 1 have been released to MSDN. Nifty for me, I have an MSDN subscription so I’ve downloaded both. Vista is a 2.4gig download (and obviously is an ISO for a bootable DV

  107. Anonymous says:

    Wow!

    I love the user interface. I’ve been using IE7 for about 2-3 hours now and am beginning to wonder how I lived without it. I cannot understand why people dislike it. Everything appears to be in the right place (even the File.. Edit.. menus)

    I must admit that the refresh button is awquad to get to, but I NEVER use the refresh button (F5).. so not a problem for me.

    I’m somewhat dissapointed with the continuous lack of CSS support. Common guys.. you need to get this fixed! acid2 still looks like a traincrash. Only two of these: http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer.html have been fixed.

    Overall I adore IE7.. its sooo fricken speedy and the UI is great. But it’s time for IE to catch up with technology and get standards SORTED!

  108. Anonymous says:

    well MS are just isolating themselves even more from the browser market, with firefox continuing to clean up it serves them right really.

    Still stacks of CSS bugs and typical proprietary shite

  109. Anonymous says:

    "hasta la vista windows

    gustavo

    Microsoft will sorely miss Gustavo

    *wah*

    C"

    you don’t get it C, it’s not about me, it’s about miillions of people who don’t speak english as their first language and have been waiting for the this release of IE for so long.

    dig it?

  110. Maurits says:

    Probably because the IE menu changes depending on what you’re looking at… if you have a .doc loaded you get Word’s menu bar, for example.

  111. Anonymous says:

    There&amp;#8217;s timing. Microsoft has released the first IE7 beta, and Opera has released a security update. (The latest Firefox update was last week.)
    Reaction to the IE7 beta has been&amp;#8230; less than enthusiastic. I can&amp;#8217;t install it at work…

  112. Anonymous says:

    Come on people… Let’s all wait for Beta 2. As with Windows, Microsoft always keeps new features at bay until the second beta. I believe the CSS rendering could be undergoing major improvements and might just not be ready for a Beta 1 release. We might still get a really nice surprise for that latter beta…

    I really hope MS will follow up on this. You guys put up with a lot of bashing here, I really thank you to keep this blog going as-is.

    But I do have one question for the MS IE team. My question is : why don’t you communicate more on these features people are waiting for ? I believe you realize more than anyone here the importance of some of them, for developers notably (CSS2 is just an example). But your silence makes me think : is it you guys not willing to answer, or is it Microsoft policy that forbids you to be anything but vague ? I’m not asking you to answer anything (though there are questions that I’d love an answer to), I’m just questioning the origins of this (deliberate?) lack of communication.

  113. Anonymous says:

    I hope that divs having style="height:100%;overflow:auto;" will continue to display scrollbars as they did before, whitout forcing scrollbars on the containing body.

  114. DrPizza says:

    Throw backwards compatibility away. Put the menu bar and toolbar and links bar outside each tab. They do not belong there. The concept is fundamentally flawed.

  115. Anonymous says:

    Al Billings [MSFT] wrote:

    "I’m looking at the RSS feed in several different aggregators. Which one are you using and what problem are you seeing with it?"

    Thunderbird

  116. Anonymous says:

    Is there plan to make XMLHTTPRequest a javascript object like what firefox, opera and safari are, so i don’t need to create an ActiveX control? ActiveX control is not allowed in some corporate environment.

    thanks

  117. Jeff Parker says:

    Well I figure I would try to give you guys some good feedback on the beta. What I mean by good feedback is hopefully feedback your looking for other than some argumentative complaints. This was on a windows XP sp2 in a Virtual PC. I figure I would do that to play with IE while Vista was downloading. You guys really need to do something also like VS and the lab to report bugs and log bugs to for IE. Other than here in the blogs. You say things in the documents linked above like send feedback and based one questions and feedback but no place do you tell us where to put the feedback.

    First off the install went surprisingly well. Of course rebooting it comes up and initializes settings and stuff. For some reason though now every time that I start that VPC image like from shutting it down properly and starting like a normal computer I see that initializing settings for IE 7, setting up outlook express 6 etc. This is at least the last 3 times I have booted that VPC it also doesn’t seem to want to hold that proxy username and password even though I keep checking save the username and password, this could be from the going through setup again every time I reboot. So for some reason there appears to be a bug in there somewhere where it isn’t holding the settings. I am also behind a proxy server. I have automatically get proxy settings turned off and the use automatic configuration script set with the fully qualified url to my proxy server in there. i.e. http://proxy02.mydomain.com/ This proxy server is off on a different subnet and everything all together. Well after the upgrade the url in there changed to http://172.XXX.XXX.XXX (replace the X with an IP address.) The ip address that was in there was a local IP address to me in a private subnet. I think it was the IP address to a domain controller which is also DNS and WINS I do not remember for sure I changed it right away because I wanted to use it to surf.

    Ok I was a little disappointed with the interface at first, it reminded me a lot of Firefox but well I had really hoped to have some MS usability guru in there designing something unique and different you know something revolutionary. However I gave it a test drive anyway. So first thing I didn’t like the interface some so I figured I would try to change it. The top bar is the url forward and back button and search. I would much prefer that to be the bottom bar. Also the main menu is the bottom bar I would really prefer that to be on the top like other windows apps. You can’t resize the url bar and get rid of the search bar and put your buttons up there anymore. I mean I really do not care for the search bar in there. I will never use it and it just frustrates me. I don’t like it in firefox either. I realize you think your making things easier for me to search but it is just taking up space I could use for something else. Now days there are 8 button mice and keyboards with tons of buttons you can set one of them to open a search engine at the click of a button. So really having it up there to me is just wasting valuable space, but some people may like it, so please let us customize it and remove it. I have tried like heck to change this, dragging, customizing basically everything you can do in IE 6 to customize the top of IE to your liking you either can not do, or I can not figure out how to do it. I would also, since there are tabs, prefer those to be somewhere else as well. Like below the url bar but above the browser window. The XML button doesn’t work I can click it and click it and click it and nothing. To be implemented later? If it is a Longhorn only feature why does it even exist on the XP version as an enabled button anyway. Also the printer button is between the XML and the rss viewing option. At least on my setup it is. I have no idea how many times I hit that @#$(*@ printer button with trying to work with the RSS stuff. Now I can remove that sucker and did but I thought that was extremely bad placement for the button by default I mean I so rarely print out a web page, sometimes a map or something but I have never removed the printer button from prior versions of IE even though I normally go up and hit File > Print and choose print selected so I do not print off all the adds and crap people put on some web pages. Also the refresh button I would really prefer you give me back the refresh button like it was before and put the Go button on the end of the url input box, I realize the go button comes back if you are typing but now you can’t refresh if you change your mind unless you hit F5. This whole interface is rather clunky to use, it reminds me of firefox, firefox’s interface is why I do not use it because lets face it, firefox does support CSS and web standards properly. And honestly if your going to look like firefox I might as well use firefox I have an RSS reader I really like. One of IE’s strongest features from a usability standpoint has been the ability to custom the UI. So please bring that back.

    Now the full screen mode, very, very, very nice, thank you for fixing this, no more windows start bar popping up and well this is just awesome, it works very good I am very pleased with this fix this is a great improvement.. However, again the menu part that comes down when you move your mouse to the top I would like to be able to customize I really prefer to have the main menu up there in full screen mode and again no search. Now one more thing though I would have you fix on this full screen mode as with all Microsoft products that have a full screen mode Multi monitor support we keep hearing yeah we will improve multi monitor support., well why not fix this in IE now, I mean is there no better time than the present. If you hit full screen it stretches across all 3 monitors. I really do not want that. I have suggested maybe making a full view mode where everything drops away but doesn’t maximize and stays right where I have it resized to be. Another thing would be nice is If I could maybe in a setting somewhere specify when I hit full screen it goes over to a specific monitor, and maximizes there I would have to tell you where that monitor is and what the resolution is because with Multi monitors you guys probably won’t know.

    As far as anything else. You guys are fully aware of our complaints about css support. And it has been screamed above as well no need for me to repeat it, we all are still hoping you are working on the engine for IE because well yeah the IE changes and putting in tabs are ok it the engine that counts.

  118. Anonymous says:

    Oh. My. God. Have the IE team gone completely mad? Address bar at the top, unmovable, and unresizable? Menu and toolbars below the tabs? (There’s a screenshot here — http://dashslot.co.uk/media/wtf.png — so you can see for yourselves.) Customize the toolbar on one tab, switch to another and the changes don’t propagate? Windows Update just hangs on "Checking for updates"?

    This is, quite frankly, a HUGE disappointment. I sincerely hope that this is more alpha than beta, because if the finished product is anywhere near this awful then you’re going to get laughed into oblivion.

  119. Anonymous says:

    In the spirit of Jeff’s post I’ll also try to hit the high points of my initial use of the beta.

    First I may as well get off my chest that as a developer no real css improvements to check out is a huge letdown. Great that you fixed one or two bugs that have been around for years. That can’t really be the extent of the css work in a new release can it? Most of us won’t be interested in this thing until you give us some development improvements to test out. Why release it to an MSDN audience (technical, or at least corporate, I would assume) if you have nothing to show us?

    Alright that said I also agree with Jeff that I hate the address bar changes. I had IE6 set up with everything on a single row and found the maximized usable space invaluable. Now with the fixed back/forward (why are the buttons not scaling when you shrink the toolbar icon size) address bar, the tab row (also not customizable), and the file and icon toolbars I’ve lost 2+ rows of screen real estate. This has to be fixed before the final release. I’ve only been stuck with it for an hour or so and I already want my IE6 layout back.

    Personally I could take or leave the tabbed browsing and the rss reader. The reader is flaky and I couldn’t get it to register the feeds at any of my regularly travelled sites. Is it even supposed to work in this release or is it a placeholder?

    Finally let me just say a word about documentation, announcements, and feedback. This was a pretty poor rollout even to those of us who have MSDN access. Internally we had no realy notice of what to expect, the little word doc is not a technical overview in any real sense, and there really is no official way to log bugs, requests for enhancements/changes, inquire about future beta functionality so we’re not complaining about things that may get fixed. MS just sort of tossed it over the wall and we were supposed to hunt and peck to find the install files, figure out whta’s new, and look for an "official’ place like this blog to drop comments off. Pretty shaky if that’s the best we can hope for going forward.

    Anyway I’m probably going to revert my system to IE6 until there’s a reason to upgrade. I’ll be looking forward to someone from the IE team etting us know what the gameplan is going forward but past experience says that information will be few and far between.

  120. Anonymous says:

    Why not release Vista beta 1 to the public now? Is it that much more work to sift through the Watson bug reports?

  121. Anonymous says:

    One more additional comment that is really a bug report. I have an IBM T40 using a second monitor as a dual display.

    With the browser on the laptops main display I can flip to full view and back and everything is fine.

    If I move the browser over to the secondary monitor and hit full view the browser completely disappears. No menu, no viewport, no nothing except the taskbar placeholder that doesn’t respond when clicked on and doesn’t display a right click option menu.

    Had to shut it down using the task manager. Hopefully this feature will be cleaned up before the next beta.

  122. Anonymous says:

    To those of you that have access to the beta of IE7 – does it have a decent download manager (that allows pausing and resuming of downloads and whatnot)? I think IE6’s greatest failing (UI wise) is lack of a decent download manager. All other browsers have one (and even Mac IE had one for years).

  123. erik233@hotmail.com says:

    Come on people, you’re a bunch of hypocrites and whiners.

    First, you whine and whine and whine that it isn’t released yet. Then when it is, you whine and whine and whine that it’s not perfect or complete yet.

    First Beta’s are never complete, and they often have major features or support missing from them. Usually, because the feature wasn’t stable enough to be in a wide beta.

    As far as the beta not being public. IT *IS* public. A closed beta is one that requires an invitation. Anyone can get this beta, just by being an MSDN subscriber. That’s a public beta, even if you can’t just download it for free. You don’t have to sign any non-disclosure to get the beta, and most likely you will soon be able to order it from MS for the cost of shipping.

    It’s a public beta, people!

    Just because it’s not available to everyone for free doesn’t mean it’s not.

    Finally… SO WHAT?!!! Give Microsoft your feedback, but for crying out loud… whining that the beta is incomplete so you’re going to go to firefox or something else is just plain stupid.

  124. Anonymous says:

    First: Kudos to the IE team for a great Beta 1.

    My first thoughts:

    – Thanks for improving the Organize Favorites dialog box! However, the dialog box should remember its size and include a size box (gripper) in the lower right corner so that people become aware that you can enlarge the dialog box.

    – The size box is now missing in the main IE status bar. This makes enlarging a browser window harder.

    – New full screen mode: Beautifully done!

    – No 1 issue: The menu bar MUST return to the top of the browser window, at least under Windows XP. It is absolute Windows XP standard that menu bars ALWAYS are located at the top of a window. (This has even always been true for MDI apps). Moving a menu bar in the middle of a window is a #1 violation of Windows standards and will confuse most users, especially mainstream users. I understand that the Tools menu can be extended by add-ons and therefore is dependent of each tab, but in the user’s mind, this won’t count. Ordinary users simply excpect the menu bar to be on top.

    – The first time the Feed button gets active, a balloon ToolTip should make the user aware of it.

    – An option to hide the Search box would be nice.

    Thank you for a tremendous job so far!

    Roland

  125. Anonymous says:

    My windows XP SP2 language is portuguese. When I try to install the package, it tells me I can’t install because of this. Follows the error message:

    "Setup cannot update your Internet Explorer 7 Beta 1 files because the language installed on your system is different from the update language."

    Is there a workaround for this? Or only users of windows in english are able to test this beta release?

  126. Anonymous says:

    The mainstream press is just beginning to comment about Windows Vista ("Longhorn") playing catch-up to Mac OS X 10.4 ("Tiger"), but after reading the comments about IE7, it looks like Microsoft will also be playing catch-up with Safari. And it won’t be in the way you might expect.

    Apple made a brilliant move in providing anonymous CVS access to WebKit and providing developers a mechanism to report bugs through http://bugzilla.opendarwin.org/. Technically, the WebCore piece of WebKit was already open source since it was forked off the KHTML project, and Apple provided–some might say "dumped"–patches for it on major releases. But by opening access to the entire framework, they now have effectively doubled (if not tripled–or more) the size of their team working on the code base. Most importantly, they essentially did it for free other than the cost of patch review and bug triage (which is also handled by volunteers). In fact, I predict that the next major release of Safari may be as standards-compliant as Firefox, if not better.

    Why should this concern Microsoft? Because there is absolutely nothing stopping anyone from building their own web browser using the WebKit engine…on Windows. Suddenly, there may be two free, open source browser engines available for Windows, both of which render content better than Internet Explorer.

    Good luck on IE7 Beta 2. 🙂

    Dave

  127. Anonymous says:

    I did find one bug. It seems frames dont work as they should. If you go to Microsoft update and try to detect updates you see the green progress bar in the center as it should. but when it is finished it loads the result on the left side, not in the middle as it should. I tried this on 2 different PC’s same result

    Also one comment. what is the print option "Print Background colors and images" still doing in the advanced options? that should be in the normal print dialog and the print preview.

  128. Anonymous says:

    Why is everyone so surprised that they can’t use MSIE 6 and 7 Beta 1 at the same time? Don’t you remember that Microsoft made MSIE a part of the Windows operating system during the 1990s Browser War to justify distributing it with every copy of Windows? Do you really expect to be able to install two copies of Windows at the same time? Well, okay, VMware or Xen non-withstanding, it just can’t be done.

    It’s kind of funny, though. If you have Mac OS X 10.4 installed and then you download and build a version of WebKit from anonymous CVS, you can start Safari using the newly built WebKit, including your local changes! How powerful is that for debugging and testing fixes? And there’s absolutely nothing to install or uninstall to do it (other than standard developer tools). I guess there’s something to be said about using an open architecture in your operating system.

    Dave

  129. Anonymous says:

    "If you go to Microsoft update and try to detect updates you see the green progress bar in the center as it should. but when it is finished it loads the result on the left side, not in the middle as it should."

    Count yourself lucky. I’ve had the green progress bar sat there for about an hour so far… I guess I’ll try removing the WU ActiveX component and trying again!

  130. Anonymous says:

    My Complaints:

    1. CSS – like everybody else, I believe that lack of CSS standards support is mind-boggling.

    2. The "File,Edit,View…" menu bar. If you’re gonna let me move it, let me move it above the URL bar. In fact, let me move the URL bar. Let me move all of them.

    3. Flash doesn’t install. Didn’t expect it to, but the browser just hangs, with no indication of what it’s doing.

    4. The blank mini-tab to create a new tab is a terrible UI component. A plus sign (like on MSN search bar), or some other indication of its purpose.

    5. Ctrl-Pg. Up and Ctrl-Pg.Down do not scroll through the tabs forward and backward, like they do in the tabs in all of the Windows XP tabs, or Firefox.

  131. Anonymous says:

    Oh, and PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE get me a "Find Next" keyboard shortcut. You got rid of F3. In Microsoft Word you can use Ctrl-Pg Up and Ctrl Pg. Down. In Notepad/Wordpad you can use F3. If you could add something, anything to IE it would be a most joyous day.

  132. Anonymous says:

    Oh yeah, one more. When opening more tabs than can fit across the screen width, there is no way to click on the tabs that scroll off the screen. You have to click on a tab that is close to the edge, and then click on the desired tab. Can you make a widget on the tab bar that allows me to scroll through the tabs, without clicking off of the tab I am currently looking at?

  133. Anonymous says:

    Hey Microsoft,

    got IE7. Acid2 test doesn’t work (you know this already I’m sure)

    It seems like just getting stuff like

    data:image/png;base64 to work would fix a lot of this. You’re not going to leave that out of IE7 final are you? (or data:image/gif:base64, etc. etc.)

  134. Anonymous says:

    Well, according to the IEBlog, a beta of both Vista and IE7 has been posted. Hey Robert, any chance of me getting in on this?…

  135. Anonymous says:

    It can be done by :

    – decompacting the .exe

    – creating a blank file named iexplore.exe.local

    – lauching iexplore.exe

    http://www.pyrat.net/Tester-IE7-sur-un-WindowsXP-non.html

  136. Anonymous says:

    People, anyone see if the most important think was fixed? It´s de Garbage Collector!!! The problem when you use a lot of memory (some .js in page…) IE came slow and slow…is this fixed? Fire Fox don´t do that…

    Thanks…

    Thyago Liberalli

  137. Anonymous says:

    Microsoft I hope you are prepared for a lot of Minidumps heading your way, because I am clicking the crap out of the [Send Error Report] button. This product is crashing so much it should be a pre-alpha release and not a Beta.

    It would be great if you could get me a switch that I could set to "Always send error reports to Microsoft".

    If I run into problems uninstalling I will let you know. Otherwise I won’t be here until Beta 2.

  138. Anonymous says:

    …and as far as the garbage collector…

    Every time IE crashes iexplorer doesn’t get cleaned up. So I have to kill the process manually every time. That’s time I don’t have.

  139. Anonymous says:

    Shouldn’t this be an Alpha Release?

    And thats with the toolbar? I can’t move it back up to the top, it annoys me where it is…

  140. Anonymous says:

    From Microsoft’s IE7 Page:

    "Platform enhancements for developers to improve compatibility and manageability, including improved support for Cascading Style Sheets (CSS) as well as transparent PNG support."

    If the finished IE7 still doesn’t support CSS2 with at least the functionality Firefox provides (especially type selectors and the many useful psuedo-classes, e.g. :first-child, etc.), then the W3C-supportive web design community (i.e. everyone who is irritated by IE, is a web developer, and runs Firefox/other standardized browser) should take huge combined action now to stomp out IE.

    Now for some shouting.

    START DEVELOPING YOUR PAGES IN FULL CSS2 COMPLIANCY! USE ALL THE EFFICIENT TOOLS W3C SUPPORTS BY CSS2 LISTED HERE:

    http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/

    USE THE STANDARD-COMPLIANT IE7 HACK TO ENABLE CSS2 (and more) FOR IE!

    http://dean.edwards.name/IE7/

    TELL YOUR VISITORS AND SITE MEMBERS TO USE OPEN SOURCE MOZILLA FIREFOX! EDWARDS IE7 HACK ISN’T FLAWLESS, AND IE USERS MAY COMPLAIN ABOUT GLITCHYNESS! SO TELL THEM IT’S BECAUSE IE DOES NOT SUPPORT THE NEW INTERNET STANDARDS OF THIS GENERATION, AND ARE STILL WAY BEHIND. SUGGEST THEM TO USE FIREFOX IF THEY WANT A FLAWLESS EXPERIENCE!

    Really, installing Firefox is a sinch. If a user is determined to visit a site for its service/content yet doesn’t want a glitchy experience, they’ll have to depart IE. I don’t understand why the web design community feels they should hold back. CSS2 could save us hundreds of hours on our webpage, but we never use the features because we always put IE as first priority. Yeah, IE has much of the market share, but isn’t that obvious because we keep developing for it as #1 priority, a nonstandardized browser?

    Let’s move ahead people!

  141. Anonymous says:

    Does anyone know if IE7 supports authentication to RSS feeds? Opera does this, I believe Firefox does not. This would be incredibly useful for our company if supported in IE.

  142. Anonymous says:

    Didn’t take me much time to get my hands on IE7 Beta1. Yes, I am a TechNet Plus DVD subscriber, but I didn’t really plan waiting for September. 🙂 Neither I planned to go to Engineering Dept. who *are* MSDN subscribers and may already have access. Was easier just to find on the Net.

    Some welcome things that I have found in IE7B1, include:

    1) control keys made compatible with the already-established tabbed browsers: Ctrl+T, Ctrl+W, Ctrl+LClick, Shift+LClick, MClick and MClick on a Tab for example.

    2) Anti-phishing features.

    3) RSS ability.

    4) Font used on Tabs headings — very compressed.

    5) Favourites organise dialogs.

    6) HISTORY near address bar with Check near current place. (I’d put radio or Bold font though).

    7) New extended address bar features: Search bar, Refresh/Go/Stop button, back/forward/history cluster.

    Now for some wishes and what I didn’t like too much. Please treat this as constructive criticism, not insults.

    0) I am not a developer, but an IT middle manager. Also, a user of many kinds of browsers built on IE. So CSS and "standards" bother myself less than developers and wouldn’t be mentioned here. I also won’t repeat obvious things reported above: Windows Update cock-up for example.

    Down to business now. Treat this as power user rants.

    1) The New Tab "empty tab" is useless because New Tab item is on all tab context menus, and looks rather ugly. Should go.

    2) LINKS panel became equidistant, and looks like Tabs are too. That is wasting valuable links panel/tab space 🙁 MSN Toolbar version doesn’t have this.

    3) MSN Toolbar on one machine was detected and tabbing there was properly disabled. On another though, there were two sets of tabs! should do better detection. The difference is, detected Toolbar version was EN-GB version, and non-detected was EN-US one at work.

    Here as well, should really allow user only select one version of: tabbing, popup blocking etc. — MSN or IE, in case of IE7 I’d say let’s override MSN ones as IE7 will be newer.

    4) Immovable "extended" address bar with buttons is a shame. The ext. address bar features are cool, Back/Fwd, Refresh and Search, but it can’t remain immovable. In fact I always had it below all other bars, and menu on top. It’s important that this gets fixed.

    5) Lock/Unlock Toolbars will reorganise them sometimes, … not the best thing to have.

    6) Icons on Tabs, in Favourites and in Address bar should be paid attention to, looks like there are more formats.

    7) Very Important for multi-language keyboard users. Alt+Shift combo switching the keyboard layouts unfortunately has STOPPED working. And I had to resort to Ctrl+Shift+1 and Ctrl+Shift+2. Ctrl+Shift+AccentGrave (backquote `) on my UK keyboard didn’t work either. In fact this fact will regretfully drive me back to IE6 SP2 with MSN Toolbar installed after tests are over :((( I type in two languages and have to switch quickly.

    Here as well: I have a *suspicion* (can’t prove it!) that some letters during fast typing may be not reacted to — could in fact be my keyboard, but it’s rather new and never exposed this effect before IE7B1 installation).

    8) I sincerely hope something like MSN Toolbar Form Filler will make it to next Beta — the feature is desperately needed to chase away threat from alternative browsers, and programs like RoboForm (which I honestly love). MSN Toolbar version is not as cool, but useable. Lack of this will once again cause idle talks about dreaded Firefox and not-so-dreaded Opera…

    9) Didn’t figure out how to customise the Search Bar. I guess in Beta 1 with registry only. There are clear indications that customisations will be available (Reset to Default button). Documentation will need to be present in future betas.

    Here as well: once again, MSN Toolbar feature will conflict with Search bar, nice to only have active ONE of them.

    10) Some add-ons don’t function like one of my FAVOURITES: Mouse Gestures for IE (http://www.ysgyfarnog.co.uk/utilities/MouseGestures/) — this is reason #2 why I wouldnt stay on Beta 1 for long and would return to IE6 (screw the skeletal Firefox!)

    Here as well: If I were IE team, I would contact the plugin author, Ralph Hare (his article and development story are here: http://www.codeproject.com/atl/MouseGestures.asp), and just discuss if he can add his efforts. Not many third-party plug-ins I would recommend to be included to main-stream IE browser — this is one well made and working like a charm.

    This would really boost useability of IE7.

    11) A funny issue: when installing IE7B1, my MS Antispyware started screaming murder and detected the installation as CoolWebSearch (for those who have already met it, it’s a REALLY nasty spyware). I in fact bailed out first time — then reviewed results and realised that Antispyware was wrong this time — uninstalled and installed again. Digital Signature on file really has helped with verifying the file authenticity.

    However Microsoft may want to look at this issue — others may well be scared into crapping their pants by CWS…

    That’s it for now, my thanks to the IE team, as a Corporate mid-range admin-manager or manager-admin I can’t wait for new IE 🙂

    (and bollocks to the whiners :))

  143. Anonymous says:

    as a web site developer, this is hugely disappointing.

    my job just got even harder…

    as they say on the Eurovision Song Contents, nil points.

  144. Anonymous says:

    > 0) I am not a developer, but an IT middle manager. Also, a user

    > of many kinds of browsers built on IE. So CSS and "standards"

    > bother myself less than developers and wouldn’t be mentioned

    > here. I also won’t repeat obvious things reported above: Windows > Update cock-up for example.

    You’re an IT manager and you you don’t care about standards…? Sorry to mention it but you’re probably incompetent…

    I’m a web developer and do worry about standards. They save me and countless others money. Microsoft don’t and if IE7 doesn’t then this is going to be the beginning of the end of MS. MS doesn’t cre about standards…? Then MS doesn’t care about the little people.

  145. Anonymous says:

    Downloaded this earlier at work. Just impressed that this is progress on IE after five years. In five years Mozilla got rewritten from a bloated mess to Firefox.

    Sorry MS but you’re not cutting it anymore.

  146. Anonymous says:

    Sorry mate but you’re reading what’s not written.

    "So CSS and "standards" bother myself _less than_ developers"

    Meaning exactly this: developers should be more concerned about standards, IT people – about usability and functionality.

    Where in this sentence did you find "you don’t care about standards…?" Since when "less than" means "zero"?…

    Chill down mate, have a drink. This’ll help to relax.

  147. Anonymous says:

    Is there a URL to report bugs? I’ve noticed if I have something in the address bar highlighted and hit Alt-E, C instead of Ctrl-C, the Alt-E takes away focus from the address bar and nothing I’m intending to copy gets put into the clipboard. Not a huge issues, but an annoyance, no doubt.

  148. Anonymous says:

    Dave: After the initial Eolas patent ruling, Microsoft started working on a modified IE that disabled the functionality that that ruled in violation of the patent. They released a beta version for developers which *could* be run side-by-side with a standard IE. By looking at the way this alternate IE was called, someone figured out how to run alternate versions of Internet Explorer without replacing the system copy, making it possible to install IE 5.0 and IE 5.5 on a box running IE 6, thus simplifying website testing immensely. Search for "multiple ie" and you’ll find more information.

    In other words, there is some precedent for (a) stand-alone IE betas and (b) running multiple versions of IE on the same system without triple-booting or virtualization.

  149. Anonymous says:

    i can see this being a headache for IT managers as well.

    the lack of support for standards means more phone calls to IT asking why IE7 is botching pages coded to web standards in one way or another.

    frankly, as a developer, i know that we who create web content are going to tell clients and our bosses how crap this update is (if the rendering engine is now final).

    we’re not going to stop coding to web standards, and we’re going to find hacks to work around IE7’s failings, but at the end of the day users of Safari, Firefox and Opera are going to get a better experience.

    Microsoft is shooting itself in the foot rushing out a so-called update.

    Frankly, I’m not too impressed by the implementation of tabbing either, but I guess this might change in the final version.

    I hope it does. I hope the Vista isn’t such a botched job as this. Frankly this is pathetic.

  150. Anonymous says:

    Trying to be constructive here…

    Good work cleaning up the UI. I fully agree that it got ‘bloated’ especially upon the addition of 3rd party toolbars. Looks much better here (I always try to minimize IE6 UI and this defaults to a very small screen-real-estate footprint). Kudos.

    Good work on the tabs. Fairly solid implementation. I do think they get a little clunky when you’ve got a bunch open (20+). Could you allow the user some kind of ‘grouping’ functionality or the ability to scroll (left and right arrows) between them (like in vs.net2003)?

    Wow! The rendering engine seems a lot faster! I’m super-impresssed but maybe I’ve just been used to the slow-down introduced by msn search toolbar’s tabs? who knows.

    Thank you for allowing the user to choose the preferred search engine in search bar. It would be nice as a user to be able to move it like the other items on the IE toolbar (links pane et. all).

    Am I missing something? Where’s the RSS aggregator built-in? (XP SP2). Does it require WinVi? I guess I’m expecting sage-like functionality. I’ll try to find some documentation for this.

    Please keep working on css bugs. As you can see here, there are many folks who think this is muy-importante!

    Could you please include a text-search funcitonality like firefox that resides on the browser window itself instead of covering up the html? Ctrl-F has never been satisfying for me in IE.

    Along the same lines – when a user hits Ctrl-O or Ctrl-L for changing the url of the page could you highlight and put the focus in the address bar instead of opening that silly pop-up location window?

    Could you include ‘Adblock’ functionality that uses regular expressions (or just wildcards) for blocking undesired ads?

    I realize that most/all of this is too-little, too-late as the feature set is almost certainly locked and nothing more is going to get dumped into this release.

    Thanks for your hard work! Keep it up!

    -Eric

  151. Xepol says:

    Yes, it looks very pretty, kudos, but sorry, it is actually a step BACKWARDS.

    1. Rss, yes, you use a style sheet to render CSS feeds, so what? IE 6 could have done this in under 10 minutes of development time.

    2. YOU SCREWED UP MY LINKS. Suddenly, everything is fixed width, now I get 6 links on my screen and LOT of links in the >> menu. Thanks, no thanks.

    3. I REALLY REALLY hate the new layout. I really hate that the address bar is in a fixed location now instead of a toolbar.

    4. I don’t need YOUR search bar (set to google) – I use the google toolbar, it WORKS BETTER.

    5. Check out the MSN toolbar’s approach to tabbed browsing, things like tab-sets are a world ahead of what you have (incidently, IE 7 breaks the MSN Toolbar’s tabbed browsing feature, way to go on sabotaging yer own co-workers!) – Admittedly, their tabbed browsing only offers 1 set, it would be nice to have MULTIPLE sets (1 for my news, 1 for my comics, 1 for my administrative pages etc etc etc)

    6. Full screen is nice, very nice, but when I pop to the top of the screen, GIVE ME ALL MY TOOLBARS!!!!! If I have to keep coming out of fullscreen to do things, I won’t keep going back into fullscreen.

    And finally, seriously, CSS is heading into 3.0 territory, I would think that full 1.0 compliance should not be too much to ask. After all, a bunch of amateurs working in a loosely affiliated group with volunteer, unpaid leadership managed it.

    If MS still wants IE to be our browser of choice and a fundamental part of the OS, there is going to have to be a serious investment made into it. Like the old days when Netscape was still the leader. IE needs to FULLY comply to the standards and then add whizbangs above and beyond. Whizbangs and partial standards simply are not enough anymore for IE to be a leader. If the standards compliance doesn’t improve, Firefox will position itself as the predominent leader (when was the last time you saw a webpage sporting the IE button? Now, when was the last time you saw a site sporting the firefox button??)

    No, unless Microsoft wants IE to become a barely maintained OS component suitable only for viewing folders, it is time for SERIOUS investment. Serious effort into the standards support, serious effort into new functionality.

    Until then, I have to say, IE 7 beta 1 is definitely a disappointment.

    The poor feedback process makes one wonder if MS was expecting it and just doesn’t want to hear it (Hey, how about a REAL feedback option under the help menu that takes me to a webpage that lets me fill in, <gasp> FEEDBACK!!!!???)

  152. Anonymous says:

    Has anyone been able to run IE 7 without installing it and having it not crash at startup? I can’t get it to work.

  153. Anonymous says:

    Found the rss aggregator stuff…fairly intuitive though not as flashy as sage (left ‘history’ sidebar thing is pretty slick). R-click-link –> add to favorites –> drop in rss folder of your choosing. (Later) choose said favorite and a very nice way of viewing rss feed data displays (though simple I agree w/ Xepol). I think I actually prefer it to the awkward boxes of sage/firefox. Is the css/format configurable? Can I determine what colors/font-families/text-sizes I want to use? Grouping would be nice (news,gossip,sports,weather). I guess I can do that already through the favorites functionality, though. Is there a way to show simply titles and no excerpts? You could get more feed data on one page and then maybe view multiple feeds?

    Grouping of tabs in some form or fashion would be cool, though.

    Again, thanks for your hard work.

    -Eric

  154. Anonymous says:

    OH Brother: Is there a technical blog where we can read and interact without the CHILDREN whining and bitching?

    The issue with http://ca.msn.com and the sympatico site is not an IE issue… It is a SYMPATICO issue. check out http://www.msn.com

  155. Anonymous says:

    "Microsoft is just asking for an illegaly leaked version of IE 7 B1 floating around."

    Yeah, it happened.

  156. Anonymous says:

    IE 7.0??? Looking at what has been changed (and what hasn’t – standards support for instance) I’d say 6.1 should be a better version number…

  157. Anonymous says:

    "Internet Explorer 7: Now in beta testing for developers" — Ludicrous statement. I am a developer, I am NOT an MSDN or TechNet subscriber. What web sites are being tested? Almost NONE. It took five and a half months to go from announcement to closed, private beta, and this is without precedent in IE history. By the time December comes, WHO CARES if there is a Beta 2 — no interest!

  158. Anonymous says:

    Exactly Jonathan Edwards. This made me lose interest in IE 7. It will probably make a lot of others lose interest. Especially since the rendering engine is 98% same, will beta 2 get to 97%? The developers are now counting on upgrades that won’t make IE good enough to scrap the ie hacks. We’re disapointed and I think we wasted our time. However, I will admit that some good features have been added to IE 7, I didn’t take a lot of time to notice them, because (1) I wanted to test the rendering engine and (2) The thing kept crashing and was barely running. I don’t know if I really want the beta 2 that bad anymore. However, maybe if I hear good stuff about beta 2, I’ll check it out.

  159. Anonymous says:

    Since installing IE7B1 I can’t get Windows Update to work. It keeps "looking" and never stops. Is Windows Update broke with this beta installed?

    I know the UI will change, possibly drastically in later versions, but whoever thought up the Beta 1 UI must like ugly. It is absolutely terrible. The address bar stuck at the top??? Come on…

  160. Anonymous says:

    Well I just have to say thanks for bitTorrent. 😉

    My first impressions are: What’s changed?

    seriously, it’s the same! (apart from tabs and some re-arrangement.

    still wondering why I’m testing it…

  161. Anonymous says:

    Gosh will people stop whining just because they don’t have a MSDN subscription and thus can’t get the Beta 1?

    You got to ask yourself how much you value your work. If it’s so important to you or your company enough to have Beta 1, why haven’t you go ahead and buy MSDN subscription yet? If it’s just curiousity, why don’t you wait for the public beta later?

    Shut up when you think you are important and yet you or your company can’t even afford MSDN subscription. You are not.

    Then step back and think, ok, if I’m not so important, I’ll wait for the Public beta to come a bit later. (Which is exactly what I’m planning to do).

    Damn the internet with all these people with and their self inflated pride.

    When GMail first started beta (even now), it’s public beta but it was never everyone’s invited. And no-one every pointed fingers and say that it was all a lie. There was nothing wrong with that.

  162. Anonymous says:

    I have some feedback, even though it’s been around since the old days.

    1. Don’t force padding and borders around submit buttons.

    2. Fix the glitch that occurs when using CSS for rollover images. For example – http://browsehappy.com/

    3. Allow heading elements to actually have no margin when "margin:0;" is specified for the heading element. At the moment it seems to add a hefty bottom margin even when it’s set to "0".

    4. Fix the line-height bug.

    5. Whatever the ‘Has layout’ thing is, I don’t want anymore of it. Just make things render how they’re told to.

    6. Make "margin:0 auto 0 auto;" actually center an element on the page, without requireing "text-align:center" on the containing block.

    That’s all I want to say for now, thanks for your time.

  163. Anonymous says:

    John Lui, the beta is leaked and is now FREE FOR ANYONE who wants to test/bash it.

    As much as you want to deny it, that is the truth.

  164. Anonymous says:

    OK, start with the positive. Thank you, Microsoft, for finally bringing your archaic browser into the 90’s. Hopefully, by 2010, web developers can take full advantage of the CSS 2 spec from 12 years earlier. Sorry. I couldn’t resist.

    Kudos to Microsoft for going with the generic name "Web Feeds" to cover the syndication feature [RSS]. MS’s typical practice is to commandeer the long-standing names of technologies and turn them into something goofy and proprietary, perhaps in an effort to stake claim to them. Remember "channels" and "push technology"? I assume they went with a generic name as to stay language-agnostic, because we know there are additional syndication formats beyond RSS [Atom, etc.] "Web Feeds" works for me.

    The section "CSS Improvements" should be listed first in the document, not on page 15 and, along with Security, should be the prime focus of this release.

    Another thing that worries me is that the term "standards" is mentioned only briefly and vaguely on page 14 and 15, but there is no mention of what "popular standards" will be supported. W3C standards? FDA standards? Microsoft’s standards?

    I strongly believe that any talk of standards in publically released material is merely acedemic marketing attempts to win the votes of the standards-advocates in the dev community. Why in the world would Microsoft have any motivation to release a browser that renders standards-compliant XHTML pages exactly the same as the competition? Would you do such as thing if you owned the company? Shoot yourself in the foot by intentionally levelling the playing field? Of course not. No smart business person would. You’d want web pages to look like hell in every other browser except yours. Now that Microsoft will be bundling the browser with their OS and obliterating any healthy progressive competition from collectively improving the web as a whole, they are in the perfect position to riddle their browser with as many insane prioprietary technologies as they wish.

  165. Anonymous says:

    Hey we will only let IT pro’s and a select few look at IE7 first. What a joke!!. Hey Microsoft what is so special about IE7 that IT pros need to see it first. Opera and Mozilla users get to see the betas right when they get released. Not just a select few!. Keep your IE7!. Mozilla Firefox and Opers are light years ahead. And this is thanks to common people. Not a select few!!.

  166. Anonymous says:

    PLEASE make it standards compliant. No more hacks, PLEASE!?

    Well, here’s a hope from Brazil.

  167. Anonymous says:

    It seems IE7 doesn’t actually block pop-ups all the time: http://www.cracks.am

    Try that link in Firefox and IE7. Firefox gets no pop-ups, IE7 gets 1.

    wtf?

  168. Anonymous says:

    OK so folks, IE7 is:

    * in BETA.

    * ugly,

    * non-skinable,

    * with buggy pop-up blocker

    * and messy IHM

    * a trap to get more searches on MSN search.

    BUT I DON T CARE ABOUT THESE. ALL I WANT(*) IS CORRECT CSS RENDERING. Please fix bugs that are listed in this short review:

    http://www.mezzoblue.com/archives/2005/07/28/ie7_css_upda/index.php or http://tinyurl.com/96bcs

    I’m not asking for perfect rendering. I’m asking you to get at least as good rendering as Firefox has. Having what Opera has would be heaven. BUT PLEASE MAKE IE7 A MODERN BROWSER, not just IE6 remixed with tabs and MSN search!

    the don-t-you-understand-that-we-need-you-to-fix-css-rendering-? department

    PS: Yeah it is important enought to be capslocked.

  169. Anonymous says:

    <….plumbing is mostly done; it’s not exposed

    <in the product yet.

    <Secret Agent

    Thank you Secret Agent. I appreciate your input.

  170. Xepol says:

    You know what would REALLY help my system security?

    My kids have access to my machine. It would help me considerably if they could not download anything or install ActiveX controls, or change settings without a password.

    That way, they kids could be locked out of the inevitable stupidities they commit, and I could still be able to do everything. I can also imagine a serious benefit to network administrators and company security.

    Something like this :

    1. You can only change settings if the password is diabled OR if you have the password OR you have administrator rights

    2. You can ONLY change or disable the password in the settings dialog.

    3. You can ONLY download files if the password is diabled OR you have the password.

    4. You can ONLY download and install ActiveX, fonts etc if the password is disabled OR you have the password.

    5. you could not UPLOAD files unless the password was disabled or you have the password (via post)

    6. In the case of a domain, let the network administrator use a policy (such as must be part of the downloaders group etc)

    If this option was available, my kid’s machines would be significantly more secure, my life would be easier, even office networks could be more secure.

    And its a feature that isn’t in Firefox yet.

  171. Anonymous says:

    Firefox and Opera have evolved beyond the need for ActiveX…

  172. Anonymous says:

    Some people never even read the documentation first. Christ almighty!

    http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/workshop/essentials/whatsnew/whatsnew_70_sdk.asp

    CSS Updates – Internet Explorer 7 includes fixes for issues with the Cascading Style Sheets (CSS) feature. Both the peekaboo and guillotine bugs have been addressed, *and work on other issues is under way to provide web developers with reliable and robust CSS functionality.*

  173. Anonymous says:

    firstly, im LOVING ie7… apart from one fairly major flaw in my opinion…

    pngs arent supported on a dual monitor setup! at best they load then disapear…

    u can see this perfectly at

    http://www.profilenation.com/djboo

    works fine on 1 monitor, enable extended desktop, and nope…at best the images load then instantly disapear… tested it out on a few machines. all ati of various flavours (one was 9800 and matrox g200, all others were dual head atis)

    been pulling my hair out for 7 hours now, couldt work out why all my machines failed but everyone else i know with ie7 managed to have no issues…was going throo everything these machines had in common… even tried an OS reinstall. on a hunch, disabled extended desktop…instantly works (after a restart of IE7 – which makes me think its not a gfx driver issue)

  174. Anonymous says:

    [Via the IE Blog] The IE team has made Internet Explorer 7 available for beta testing. Check out the…

  175. Anonymous says:

    Well, I gave a try to IE 7 B1. IE 6.1 would be a better version number…

    No surprise as Dean Edwards wrote in march: http://dean.edwards.name/weblog/2005/03/the-reason/

    I know it’s a beta, but for most other browsers the rendering engine is frozen in beta so don’t wait for major improvements in beta 2…

    So sad, except for few bugs corrections we’re still in 1999.

    At least you’ve done the work correctly since hacks are still working and we just need to replace in the conditional comment "IE6" by "IE7". Are we going to wait again for 5 years to have a correct CSS 2.1 support, I don’t think so…

  176. Anonymous says:

    Seriously…

    **** THE DOCUMENTATION…

    WE WANT TECHNICAL DETAILS OF WHAT HAS CHANGED IN BETA 1, NOT VAGUE PROMISES OF STANDARDS FOR BETA 2.

  177. Anonymous says:

    BTW, is the Dean Edwards running VERY slow for everyone?

  178. Anonymous says:

    From what I´ve seen it´s a bloody joke to call this a beta of IE7. It´s maybe a beta of IE6.1.

    Compared to what other browsers offer as a "BETA", there´s almost no improvement besides UI. That security feature have been added is not a new feature, it´s a must because of the state IE6 is in.

    Compared to MyIE or any other alternative IE UI there is even less reason to rejoice.

    Guys, what are you working on? Compatibility testing 90%? Is there a real IE7 TEAM or is this another joke like: Well, we´ll call it a team, so that everyone thinks there are improvements coming.

    It´s really disappointing that MS is exactly behaving the way you expect a monopolist to behave. Of course IE4 was better than Netscape 4, IE 5 and 6 where improvements, especially concerning DOM. But why is Microsoft so unable to put the smallest effort into improving their browser further? Why is it so unwilling to hear it´s customers´ pledges?

  179. Anonymous says:

    Any chance of fixing the issue which only allows 1 version of IE to be installed at any one time – it’s a really pain for developers / designers who don’t want to go to the hastle of having to re-partition parts of their hard drive just to accommodate Microsoft.

  180. Anonymous says:

    >When GMail first started beta (even now), it’s

    > public beta but it was never everyone’s

    > invited. And no-one every pointed fingers and

    >say that it was all a lie. There was nothing

    > wrong with that.

    I believe the GMail was more a viral marketing plan than anything else. "I can’t have a GMail account? Why not. Please let me have one, they must be GREAT!"

    How mch attention has this drawn to the product releasing it in a ‘private’ public beta. For those of you without an MSDN subscription you all want a look.

    It’s just a shame they we’re so quick to launch without the things that a lot of the people who can take a look care about. I care about security but as a web developer rather than a user (hence the MSDN sub.) I wanted to see standards support first. Sure pressure was on them to show Vista and so they were required to show IE7 but as has been said before All you need to do is TELL US what standards will be supported in beta2 to let us know we’re not wasting our time even coming here.

  181. Anonymous says:

    " Some people never even read the documentation first. Christ almighty! "

    It’s a matter of years (!) experience what microsoft means with fixing. The time that they have needed to fix 2 CSS bugs, if I scale that to all the quircks that IE has met CSS… . And talking as a webdeveloper, years of frustration. So much frustration that I really think about doing something else. I had high hopes but now i’m really disapointed. It’s seem that Microsoft does not have any respect for us webdevelopers. Really which (web)developer cares about tabs, popupblocker anyway?

    I’m sick of tired to read that we are whinning, bashing of secretly advocating Firefox. For the matter of fact I don’t care about the fact that Firefox becomes the number one browser. I care about my work. I care about the barrier that IE is for my creativity. I care about the fact that I have spended tremendous hours fixing and creating workaround to IE bugs and quircks.

    It’s so frustrating when you writing logical markup to see that all other browsers are interpreting it correct and that IE renders the page totally wrong. IE seems to have a mind of is own, sometimes doing work A brakes work B. As a matter of fact, sometimes i’m just guessing because I really don’t know how IE will handle it. It’s trial and error and allot of refreshing. For hell sake for doing some simple tasks correct I must exploit IE CSS Aural bugs with the most cryptic markup!

  182. Anonymous says:

    ‘ BTW, is the Dean Edwards running VERY slow for everyone?’

    I think that this signals that allot of webdevelopers are now fed up with microsoft and are searching for a sollution to make their job easier. Can’t blame them.

  183. Anonymous says:

    Three things I so far Hate about the new IE7 most. Other things, not much big deal yet.

    These COULD be considered BUGs, or just very annoying things that I would like to be fixed by Microsoft!

    1. There a big gap for every site in the links. That’s what I don’t like…

    http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/9749/in…rer7beta3wq.jpg

    See the BIG space between NASA and movies? That is UGLY as hell!

    2. When you click the close button (top right), All the windows will close WITHOUT Warning

    Microsoft need to make sure when people click on that close button, confirm with users that users would like to close down ALL tabs.

    Cuz, I KNOW people would make mistakes and sometimes click on it by accident, and they didn’t want to close all the tabs!

    Right?

    3. There is just something weird with Menu not at the Topmost. I tried, and couldn’t move it to the top.

    Oh man, I gotta get used to NOT Alt-Tab anymore… I am still doing it alot LOL

    And my wishlist for update/next version…

    GOTTA GOTTA GOTTA support "Remember what you type" functionality!

    http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=350355

  184. Anonymous says:

    Looks ok so far –

    So many funny – angry – frustrated – people –

    My God –no wonder they don’t make a public BETA 1 –

    Simple Example – I seen several posts – requesting help to uninstall – because of problems – Well it took me a bit to figure it out – I just had to read what it told me to do LOL – when I tried to reinstall it – thinking I had a bad install-

    TURN ON – "SHOW UPDATES" – There it was – uninstalled the IE 7.0 Beta update – and back to IE 6.0 – no problems.

    *************

    Saying that – all the litle bugs – have already been mentioned – I’m sure it will become better – over time.

    One thing –

    UNLESS I NEED TO READ SOME MORE ** LOL **

    Openning with multiple tabs – would be great.

  185. Anonymous says:

    How can – anyone – write like – this. Constantly – inserting these – darned dashes in places – where they – shouldn’t be.

  186. Anonymous says:

    Just installed IE7 beta and quickly found one missing feature in tabbed browsing. The Close button should be on each tab (at least this should be an option). I’ve used this feature with Opera and in my opinion this would make IE almost perfect 🙂 Little things make a good product the best product.

  187. Anonymous says:

    Rolling on the floor, laughing my ass off.I think some one needs to be grading their classes english papers rather than posting here.Sorry about the dashes though.

    Every one pushed,complained, cried for IE 7.0.

    So when anyone suggests an idea, and another makes a negative statement and references some other piece of software, why is that.

    Consider this , is it not possible that maybe, just maybe, we all wanted to see IE 7.0 , because of all the new ideas we were seeing out there, and just maybe we thought it would be nice to see some of that technology in a product we were already using faithfully. If that is not the case , I think we are wasting our time and others being at this post. Enough said.

    Oh by the way I hope I get an "A" from my english professor on this, I took all the dash keys off my keyboard.

    Thanks ,

    Keep up the hard work Microsoft.

  188. Anonymous says:

    @ tester

    I have a better idea – middle-mouse click on all your tabs. This works better in my opinion.

    btw, the RSS feeds in IE are a joke, either that or they’re just not finsihed yet. Here’s hoping…

  189. Anonymous says:

    Arrogant MS. Forget the beta if they don’t want public to see it. Use Fx; %20 market share now 90% market share this time next year.

  190. Anonymous says:

    with my Logitech MX1000 wheel this is VERY uncomfortable.

  191. Anonymous says:

    Perhaps it’s a good thing that MS didn’t release this beta publicly, there’s really not much to see here. Still, full credit to the IE team for doing some work. I will continue to look forward to when IE supports CSS 2.1.

    I think that use of CSS such as position:fixed (not supported in IE yet), and position:absolute with box offsets (left and right or top and bottom) are highly fundamental for web page layout. This is just my opinion, based on a wealth of experience. Currently IE will shrink wrap contents instead of using box offsets.

    As for users of Win98 etc., will they never get an upgrade that supports CSS2.1? Poor souls…!

  192. Anonymous says:

    Oh my gawd, IE7 causes Trillian (3.1) to crash! The program immediately bombs out with an error when loading.

    I see that I’m not the only one experiencing this either based on the comments here.

    I don’t understand how a simple web browser can cause unrelated applications to stop working?? Ah well, nothing surprises me anymore.

  193. Anonymous says:

    Microsoft:

    Thanks for all the hard work! Things are really looking up with your browser. I like how it looks and can’t wait to get it in my hands. My primary concern deals with standards compliance. I know this is an early beta but in the end, the more compliance, the better.

    As a budding developer, I think Microsoft should set the standard and make it easier for me to develop apps with at least standards compliance with the W3.

    Thanks again Microsoft and I can’t wait to get it in my hands!

  194. Anonymous says:

    Since you apperently failed in fully implementing the :hover pseudoselector, wouldn’t you guys be interested in adopting a brand new selector into your app? Something like :ImDesperateAndAngry. It could be applied only on HTML tag and it would cause formating C drive when the mentioned element is hovered.

  195. Anonymous says:

    To the trillian ppl:

    Just remove the msn.dll from your Trillianplugins folder and it works again. Seems like IE7 breaks only MSN support.

  196. Anonymous says:

    I think it looks very good, and as long as you fix more CSS bugs in the next build lots of people will be happy!

    Keep up the good work! 😀

  197. Anonymous says:

    It seems that IE 7 Beta 1 has been released.&amp;nbsp; I no longer have my MSDN subscription, so I haven’t…

  198. Anonymous says:

    Hey IE7 guys… you might wanna fix the Outlook Express problem…

    After installing IE7, all links in Outlook Express emails take me to "C:Documents and Settings<username>"… not the website linked…

    I have IE7, and FireFox installed, and set IE7 to default, and it didn’t work, then set FireFox to default, and still didn’t work…

    This will be a major issue for many people…

  199. ieblog says:

    Testerdude,

    Please e-mail us with the contact form with more information on your system. I’m running IE7 with OE right now (and have on a variety of machines over the development cycle) and I cannot reproduce the problem that you describe.

    Al Billings [MSFT]

  200. Anonymous says:

    Today Microsoft released beta copies of the next version of Windows and IE7! It’s actually not all that exciting. Well, not all that exciting for we Apple users. 🙂 A new Apple Store opening is much more exciting! My first…

  201. Anonymous says:

    Fanatastic… IE7 doesn’t work when trying to use the windows update site!!! also IE7 Beta 1 is available, if your bit torrent sites.

  202. Anonymous says:

    Yahoo’s Mail looks terrible in IE7. Someone needs to contact them to tell them to update their site to reconize the IE7 user agent, it is simply terrible!!!!!

  203. Anonymous says:

    Becasue of tabbed browsing I have been using FireFox for a few months now, but I really want to go back to Internet Explorer. Most of what I have seen so far looks good, but I have a couple of things I would like to see added.

    1. Give us a button/icon verses that little mini-tab, or at least give the mini-tab and icon.

    2. Make IE 7 so that you can open the program and have it display multiple tabs. Example: In fire fox I have 6 tabs, one for email, one for cnn, 2 for forums, one for ebay and one for new egg.

    3. I like the way the functions like home, back, forward, ect look better on IE 6

    These are rather small suggestions, but I think they would make the product much easier to use.

  204. Anonymous says:

    Another one for you to fix:

    1. Wrapping a <table> in an <a> element results in the link not firing when you click on it. It should work correctly as per the spec and as per EVERY other browser out there that I tested.

  205. Anonymous says:

    James, which spec are you talking about? You cannot have <table> elements as children of <a> elements according to any HTML specification I know of. The correct parsing of such code is to assume the <a> element ends when the <table> element begins. If Internet Explorer behaves as you describe, then Internet Explorer is working correctly.

    Although it is an error condition to miss out the required closing </a> tag, in which case *any* rendering is technically correct, the sensible thing for a parser to do is to assume there is an implied closing tag, since the content model of <a> elements forbids <table> child elements. The other alternative is to do something that is definitely non-compliant and can involve scanning in the character stream to see if there’s a matching closing </a> tag after the <table> element. That’s not sensible.

    Complying with the specification doesn’t mean making it work in Mozilla, or Opera, or any other browser. It means following the rules described in the specification. Usually, that’s the same thing, but *very* occasionally, Internet Explorer gets it right when other browsers get it wrong, so you shouldn’t automatically assume any particular browser’s rendering is correct without checking with the specification first.

  206. Anonymous says:

    Now that I got over my disapointment I can say that well, MS did make some improvements. The thing I noticed most was that the history seemed to work faster on my pc. I’m hoping beta 1 is only a beta of the ui and not the rendering engine, because most people know betas as close to the real thing, but containing bugs. If the rendering engine isn’t going to be improved, I’m sure IE will use a lot of users. I think what disapointed most users is MS gave the "select few" an alpha quality browser and called it a non-public beta 1. I think that’s the main MS mistake here.

  207. Anonymous says:

    I obtained IE7 Beta 1 and have installed it…

    I was impressed by the clean layout, although somewhat surprised that not much has changed, more later I’m sure.

    I love the idea of Tabs, and enjoy using them. I see from some of the constuctive posts here that there is some work to be done to improve the functionality of them, but hey, it is Beta 1 or have most of you forgotten this already?

    I have found the issue with the Windows Update site hanging on ‘Checking for the latest updates for your computer…’ with the Left panel showing ‘Review and install updates’ which, when selected, shows no updates regardless. Which is what brought me here in the first place.

    Now that I am here and have read almost all the posts I have a fuller understanding of why Microsoft released IE7 as an MSDN Beta…From all the posts contained in this Blog very few have actually got ANYTHING reasonable or constructive to say, it seems apparent to me that most are just bitching about not being able to get it, bitching about how it doesn’t work perfectly, bitching about how Mozilla Firefox is better anyways even though they can’t compare it with IE7 Beta 1 as they can’t get it!?!?…Generally there’s plenty of bitching going on!!! Sad, Sad, Sad…

    What would be nice is if people would firstly read Dean’s interesting and informative (If actually READ and UNDERSTOOD) opening statement where he clearly lays down the reasoning behind the chosen release path and also states that in time Beta 2 will be released to a wider audience.

    Reading the posts that follow lead me to believe that Microsoft have chosen the correct path here, MSDN subscribers have paid for the privelage to Beta software early. why? Because the software in question is used within their business needs and as a direct result will benefit them greatly if they can give feedback as to the functionality, stability and usability of the software. Because of this, and also because these people will more likely be proffesionals, the feedback gathered will be of a concise nature, stating facts and possibly concerning workarounds and/or fixes.

    In this time I feel that the QUALITY of this feedback alone will make up for the lack of QUANTITY gathered from a completely Public Beta program.

    If you have any real doubts to the validity of this argument then simply read the posts above. From the quantity of posts there are only a very small number which actually contain any relevant information and even some that do seem to ignore the FACT that this is IE7 BETA 1, not 2, not ALPHA, not FINAL RELEASE but simply the first major BETA of the software to be widely available.

    All I can say is please stop bitching, be patient, and above all else remember that this is still early code from which the final product will be based on. From my experience most, if not all, Betas are released with many features disabled or missing and the final code that is released is generally far superior to the first Public Beta.

    I do hope that at least some people will take note from this post and that the quality of the posts to follow will be of a more positive and constructive nature and not simply following the old and tired MSBashing formula.

    If you really don’t like it that much then simply change your brand and be done with it but stop bitching about it!!!

  208. Anonymous says:

    Easy on the language, JKay. I’m sure most of the bad posts were either from MS haters or people who were socked to find the rendering engine too close to IE 6. But I’d say MS did do a bad job of explaining a few minor details that led to some of the misunderstanding.

  209. Anonymous says:

    JKay6969: As far as we web developers go, simply changing our brand won’t fix the real problem. Internet Explorer costs us more time and effort than any other factor in web development. In most cases, if I spend about an hour or so on a page that works perfectly on Firefox, Opera, Safari, Konqueror, and ELinks, it then takes three hours just to make the darn thing work in Internet Explorer, and it often requires reducing the functionality of the webpage in some respect.

    Internet Explorer is costing us time and money, and Microsoft continues to not deliver on their promises. We aren’t just asking them to fix some "CSS bugs", we want the dozens and dozens of extremely useful and time-saving features that every major browser but Internet Explorer has supported for years.

    The problem is that we can’t reasonably do ANYTHING about this problem except sit here and wait for Microsoft to get their act together, or hope that other browsers stomp out IE’s market share so that we don’t have to worry as much about it. But right now, we’re stuck in the dark ages, and Internet Explorer is the sole reason.

    You say to wait and see what the final version offers. Here’s how I see it: This beta release was clearly aimed at developers. It wasn’t released to the public, just to MSDN subscribers, and they mentioned that this release is partly so web developers can test their sites in it and report any problems. But if this release was supposed to focus on developers, then why were no significant changes made that would be interesting to developers? Fixing two CSS bugs is not interesting. I’d expect that kind of progress from Firefox in a week. If Microsoft thinks that we would consider these changes remotely significant, then I have serious doubts about what the final version will bring. If Microsoft turns around and releases a quality product that solves all of our woes, I’ll have to eat my words, but given everything surrounding this release, I seriously doubt that this could be anything half decent.

    http://nanobox.chipx86.com/browser_support.php#summary

    Bring that CSS percentage up to 70% and I’ll be impressed.

  210. Anonymous says:

    Very true, Nanobot. I’m a web designer too and IE quirks are the worst part of web design, IMO.

  211. Anonymous says:

    This would be a great time to fix another IE bug. If you use css to apply a background image to an [A] (link), IE downloads the background image each time you hover over it.

    It becomes really apparent in IE7b1 because the favicon in the tab and the reload button flash constantly during the mouse over.

  212. Anonymous says:

    I didn’t see mention of supporting window.XMLHttpRequest like Mozilla and Safari have done. Would be nice to not require ActiveX be enabled to use XMLHttpRequest! This can’t be very difficult to support (XML islands already do not require ActiveX be enabled).

  213. Anonymous says:

    At last, Internet Explorer 7 Beta 1 and Windows Vista are out and about. An MSDN subscription or invitation is required to play, and I am a grateful recipient of the latter. Now what? How about &quot;Attack of the…

  214. Anonymous says:

    Tom,

    > I’m looking at the RSS feed in several

    > different aggregators. Which one are you

    > using and what problem are you seeing with

    > it?

    >

    >Al Billings [MSFT]

    Hi,

    I am using feeddemon and i don’t have access to the latests items (3 or 4).

    Regards

  215. Anonymous says:

    Thanks for the response Nanobot,

    Some very interesting points Nano, and clearly explained.

    For your first point of developing for IEX and the relating problems this definitely seem to be a systematic problem on Microsoft’s part in the development of the IE Browser as a standard. Sadly through the long development cycle of IEX Microsoft have, time and time again abused its clear advantage over its competitors. With IEX shipped with each and every copy of Windows and with any update very easily obtained by the masses it SHOULD be the premier Web Browser on the market today, the fact that it clearly isn’t is a reflection of Microsoft’s complacency and reliance on the fact that the majority of consumers will blindly accept what is offered to them, unless a significant, and easily obtained alternative is offered.

    Now, the fact that there are superior alternatives available and the masses are currently not readily adopting them gives Microsoft the easy ride so to speak. While the main competitors are continuously updating thier offerings features, stability and usability in order to gain market share, Microsoft have taken a back seat and have obviously let development slide. This is their big chance to show the world what they are capable of. Are they going to hold the torch high or simply raise it a little? Only time will tell.

    Microsoft is clearly in a Monopoly type situation which makes it increasingly difficult for the smaller but more innovative browser developers to make an impact on the market. David V’s Goliath certainly springs to mind here. But I would like to believe that with the right feedback and pressure from the customers, developers AND end users (I’m not talking about Bitching here ;-).) then they may be forced into spending more development time, money and effort into developing IEX into the premier Web Browser for the masses.

    And yes I am a dreamer 😉

    I understand that for the smaller Browser Developers it is becoming increasingly difficult to gain widespread acceptance in the current controlled market and I believe this is the major problem. A problem that is far from easy to resolve.

    Even if more Web Developers were to give preference to the competing, superior, Web Browsers they would ultimately suffer in at least the short to medium term as the majority of the visitors to thier sites expect the site to look perfect on whatever browser that is used to view them especially as most would be in fact using IEX. Couple that with the lack of understanding of the situation by the majority of the customers who at the end of the day are not really interested in changing their Web Browsers. A fact that Microsoft capitalizes on.

    I also take your point that there is a significant lack of truly innovative features apparent in this Beta Release if IE7 and on hindsight would openly agree with you that it is somewhat worrying that some of the major expected changes have not thus far been implemented, or even seem to be planned to be implemented. Is IE7 more of a small update to IE6 than a fully blown new version. Where are all the bells and whistles? Perhaps Beta 2? Perhaps not…

    I would strongly like to see Microsoft take the chalice with both hands and truly show what they can do. They have almost unlimited resources compared with their nearest competitors and so SHOULD be capable of turning out something really special…The big question is…Will they?

  216. Anonymous says:

    The big news of the week is, of course, that Windows Vista Beta 1 has been released. In addition, IE7 Beta 1 was released as well. While I haven’t installed either yet, this is definitely good news on the road…

  217. Anonymous says:

    Feedback + suggestions:

    Using a low footprint UI is a good idea but this approach is terrible. On default settings, the icons are too small, and the RSS icon gives the user no idea as to what it really does. The "new tab" mini-tab is unintuitive. It’s also a bit ugly. Also, the tab bar takes space even when there are no tabs. As for the favorites menu, make it an option to switch on scrolling menus. Overall the UI is very unintuitive.

    The anti-phishing filter is a good idea though it could be smarter. It checks web pages that don’t even have fields. The filter could scan for key words by input forms. Phishers must identify fields like credit card number, password, id, etc. for a victim to input. An additional security measure would be to check for encryption.

    The Delete Browsing History option is too simple. It could be more customizable. Speaking of which, Firefox has the right idea in keeping privacy related information all in one place. IE could take note. I’ve always felt that that the Internet Options window was just slapped together and anything that didn’t fit went to the Advanced tab.

    Other:

    Organizing favorites is time consuming. A simple explorer window is all that is necessary. The current implementation is no good. An improvement would be to use large icon view with bookmark order being left to top and top to bottom like explorer.

    The export function can be improved. It could include all internet explorer settings, browser history, privacy list, restricted sites, etc or whatever the user wants. At the very least I’d like to see bookmarks kept in order when exported. They’re always alphabetized.

    Now for the true nitpicks. The new IE icon camouflages itself on the quick launch bar. The old IE6 icon was the best as it stood out. I guess this depends on background color mostly so dynamic icons could be an innovation. This probably doesn’t apply to the IE team though.

  218. Anonymous says:

    Beta 1 is more than a little bit rpoey – but no less ropey than I expected. I bet it has taken a while for the IE team to get themselves familiar with the code.

    I hold out plenty of hope that things are going to improve a lot before Beta 2 appears.

    I’ll leave the rest of my comments to the ms beta newsgroups.

  219. Anonymous says:

    Things I like:

    1) The tab visual look and feel is great! It’s very easy to use and way better than the MSN Toolbar approach. I especially like the small “I want a new tab” that’s always on the far right.

    2) I like the fact that the top of the window just contains the address & search controls, and the menu and small toolbar icons. It makes much better use of space for the web page. In fact, I disabled all my toolbars because I felt they took up space that could be used for my web page. I only really use the toolbars for searches which you now include in the top right corner anyway. Cool!

    3) I like the context-based button on the right-side of the address bar. If you’re going to a page, it has an “X”. When you have loaded the page, it turns to a “refresh” button. I like it.

    4) I like the new security padlock on the right of the address bar.

    5) I like the new printing changes.

    Things I don’t like or could be improved on:

    1) The search control in the top right corner should have a “clear search history” menu option.

    2) I found IE7 crashed a lot when using the “Links” toolbar favorites. I have loads of links in that folder and choosing just about any of the links can cause IE7 to crash (about 40% of the time).

    3) I’d like a better and more official Microsoft IE7 feedback site.

  220. Anonymous says:

    Is the bug fixed in IE7 where the favicon becomes only visible when you first bookmarked the page ?

  221. Anonymous says:

    I notice that IE7b1 breaks document.domain security. That is, if I have two separate window/frames both setting document.domain=’example.com’, code from subdomain1.example.com can’t access example.com or subdomain2.example.com. I get an ‘access denied’ error.

  222. Anonymous says:

    I tried to install IE 7 on Windows XP SP2 but I get the following error during "backup the registry":

    "the data area passed to the system call is too small."

    Any help.

    Thanks

    Ivan (iloreti@gmail.com)

  223. Anonymous says:

    I know this has been requested many times already, but I would like to add my voice to the list:

    Please consider releasing IE7 for Windows 2000, even if it does not have all the security improvements that IE7 for WinXP would. A lot of corporate computers use Win2K, and it would be very nice to have the CSS fixes, tabbed browsing, and printing improvements.

    I realize that a release takes a lot of time and effort, but if you don’t do this, many users will switch to Firefox or some other browser.

  224. Anonymous says:

    Beta version is released, but how can ordinary people get it??

  225. ieblog says:

    Vishnu,

    Beta 1 is a limited beta. People not within that group will have to wait for Beta 2.

    Al Billings [MSFT]

  226. Anonymous says:

    I’ve noticed that if I have the Auto Select encoding option turned off, RSS feeds display as XML.

  227. Anonymous says:

    Y a pas photo | Si IE7 n’est pas public, c’est qu’ils ont honte.

    "Our goal is to get feedback from this group, do a bunch more work around quality"

  228. Anonymous says:

    Hello,

    I’d like a new blank tab to open to say msn.com or google.com instead of a totally blank page.

    Thanks,

    Bob

  229. Anonymous says:

    Is it better to leave the Tools – Internet Options – Security Tab settings set to "custom" as when IE is installed or set them to actual "default" on this screen?

    I’ve wondered this for a long time,

    Thanks!

    Bob

    PS. IE 7 looks good so far. Will be anxious to see Beta 2 though.

  230. Anonymous says:

    Cette periode est particulirement active en ce qui concerne le dveloppement du futur navigateur internet de Microsoft. Une premire version Beta a t distribue quelques dveloppeurs le 28 juillet.

    Ds le lendemain, Chris Wilson, chef de

  231. Anonymous says:

    The "goto" button in the address bar is totally unacceptable. it is not visible, the default appears to be "refresh" unless you type something into the address bar. This is usless. People copy and paste a url into the address bar and there is no other way now to go there unless you hit enter. I tend to surf with just the mouse I don’t want to have to lean forward and hit the keyboard for this. And in order to get the "arrow" or goto button, you again have to touch the keyboard and write something in the address bar.

    Try to fix this please it is very irritating, have the thing understand when you paste a url into the address bar, the arrow or goto button should be displayed.

    thanks!

  232. Anonymous says:

    What’s with the Favorites?? It opens three panes wide and you cannot scroll anywhere to the rest of your favorites. Any remedy for this??

  233. Anonymous says:

    I am a web developer, and I have a very real interest in how the new version of IE will impact, well, my job. I’m also interested in how the new version of IE will impact the organizations I work with.

    The organizations I work with are not-for-profits, and an MSDN subscription would be a poor use of funds for any one of them. I’m not against the idea of a limited beta release, and I’m not against Microsoft making piles of money. I’ll just not be recommending that my organizations send Microsoft money for this particular subscription. However, I am interested in the opinions of those who have the beta. I am interested in what impact the new release will have on the websites I create and on the way that others in the organization use the web.

    To those of you who are attempting to provide fair, clear reviews of what IE7 is, thank you.

    As I sit here, I think it would be true to say that as a developer, I will be most impacted by changes in how IE renders pages, probably. My opinions on what IE should be or could be are not terribly relavent. I know that I will need to support IE7 when it launches whatever it is. I would like to know what IE7 is (or what it will be). What kinds of tags or css properties will be rendered differently? What kinds of pages will be rendered differently? I don’t necessarily care about better or worse. I’ll need to support IE6 and Firefox and Safari and IE7 (when it comes out). So what will I need to do differently to support IE7?

    From the comments above, it sounds like there are two CSS changes, and that most everything else stayed the same. To me this sounds like IE7 is mostly like IE6, and I shouldn’t worry much about whether any particular page will render differently in IE7. If that is the case, so be it. I would welcome comments on this point from those of you who have the beta available to you.

    Changes in the UI are worth noting, but it doesn’t sound like they will affect me as a web developer. However, it sounds like changes in the UI may affect training, tutorials and user documentation.

    So, if I have followed the comments correctly, pages will be rendered in a similar fashion to IE6, but an explanation of how to get to the page will be different (different buttons, different menu position, etc). Is this correct?

    If this is the case, it would be helpful to be able to at least get a specific list of changes to the UI before IE7 is released through windows update for XP, if it is ever released in this way.

    Why? Have you ever done a mail merge in Word XP? There was a wizard added to the process with the XP version. It was a change from Word 2000. The wizard was clearer for new users, but I had the experience of retraining several secretaries who had happily and successfully used Word 2000’s version. The change from one to the other was drastic and jarring. Several needed assistance to continue doing what they were doing before. I say this because it sounds like the changes in the UI are, well, drastic.

    Is this the case? Will user documentation and tutorials will need to be looked at with a careful eye given to how IE7 works? I would also welcome comments on this point.

    As for whether I will like or dislike it, well, I’ll make that determination in due course. However, I know that it will be with me for years to come in either case. Screaming for joy or screaming out of frustation will just get me worked up over something I can’t change.

    Thanks again.

  234. Anonymous says:

    dot org webber, we’ll have to wait untill beta 2 for the rendering engine testing.

    Anyway, I wanted to say that I don’t like when I make a new tab, it’s not focused right away, and when I focus it, it takes a while to load.

    Thanks.

    God Bless.

  235. Anonymous says:

    >>>>Is it better to leave the Tools – Internet Options – Security Tab settings set to "custom" as when IE is installed or set them to actual "default" on this screen?

    I’ve wondered this for a long time,

    <<<<<

    its the the same thing, if you hit default, you come across a form or something and a prompt asking if you want to redirect or soemething, a trivial warning which is checked if you wan’t to not see that warning every again, which you accept, bumps it down to ‘custom’.

    Can’t remember exactly but believe it is a small warning when using forms only.

  236. Anonymous says:

    I tried out the IE7 Beta and would like to report an issue. Though I would like to state that I am not part of the beta program – I got the beta off a torrent site.

    The problem is this, when I install IE7 – Windows Explorer loses the double click behavior. Items can no longer be opened with double click instead it defaults to editing the name. They can be still opened by right clicking and selecting open. The OS I am using is Windows XP SP2

  237. Anonymous says:

    "Taking life one instantiable class at a time" ? Yeah, right. Get a life. I mean, seriously. No flaming. And you know all about that.

  238. Anonymous says:

    Wish list for IE7

    – A version for Win 2000, I have no plans on upgrading to windows xp, ever. I will be upgrading to Vista whenever it does come out (lets just hope it’s not another WinME all over again). So many people and corporate environments do use 2000, as it is, IMHO, the most stable and (power) user friendly (windows) OS out there.

    – Min/max height and width, specifically

    – Just come out of the dark ages and support (fully and properly) css 2.0/2.1, and while you’re at, lets try for a little future compatibility and throw in a little 3.0.

    – Maybe consider scrapping trident & go for a quick release of 7.5 (or 8), and build a better browser from the ground up. There is no use trying to fix a dead horse.

    – try looking at your competition. Firefox it eating up your market share at a decent rate, and although I have switched to Firefox (and have no plans of returning to you), as a developer I do have to live with and code for your product, you may want to take a look at what they are doing, and why they are doing it, and it will give you a decent benchmark to hit and it is something tangible to beat.

    – remove integration from the os. Frankly, it is excessive, and if you are not going to build a fully standards compliant product, allow home users a choice, and allow developer to install multiple versions easily (so at least we only need to work on one machine to fix our sites to work with your products)

    Thanks

  239. Anonymous says:

    Stick with Firefox and you will be happy. IE7 Beta 1 let me down… and every other web developer on earth. IE makes my life harder because it does not render CSS 2 to the W3C’s standards. It does not even render all of CSS1!

    Microsoft needs to say out of web browsers… they just slow the development of the web!

  240. Anonymous says:

    *** LOL! The Acid2 rendering looks even worse in IE7… ***

    Yeah – looks like crap in Nutscrape and Firefox too…your point?

    Anyways, who cares. Someone will stick it out in a torrent link soon enough.

  241. Anonymous says:

    I just installed Vista Beta and expected the boot up to be faster then XP! No, it was slower. Aero might be nice but the version that comes with Beta, black taskbar! cannot distinguish anything! The new WMP 10 is not what I expected, in library view the left pannel cuts the titles!! Management console looks and feel just like in XP! Disk management is crappy. IE7 does not support CSS 2 and CSS 1 does not work properly, what is the problem with Microsoft?. File indexing is slow and uses a lot of memory! No virus scanner could be installed on Vista Beta, the OS just freezes! I will now uninstall Vista and install Novel Suze LINUX 10 instead. I hope Microsoft is going to do a better job by the time Vista is due or they will loose me to LINUX.

  242. Anonymous says:

    Why are you forcing people to pay $99 or more to get their hands on something that should be free? Many web developers, like me, are young college students (some are even high school students) and can’t afford to blow $99 on a beta version of IE7. Next time you want feedback from web developers, make it free. I’m not going to waste my money on something like this. Until I see a free version of IE7 Beta, I’m going to continue using Firefox.

  243. Anonymous says:

    One of the things I think IE has over all other browsers is that it is already mostly loaded if you use Windows Explorer like I do.

    Getting IE up from Windows Explorer is very fast, far far faster than Firefox.

    Once IE releases v7 with tabs, I will uninstall Firefox.

    Mark.

  244. Anonymous says:

    sorry mark, but you can’t compare two products which have not the same level of finition. one can bet that ie7 will become far far far slower when it will have reach the same stability and security level of firefox 😉

  245. Anonymous says:

    sorry mark, but you can’t compare two products which have not the same level of finition. one can bet that ie7 will become far far far slower when it will have reach the same stability and security level of firefox 😉

  246. Anonymous says:

    Finally you accepted PNGs, but why can’t we have better support for CSS2. What about us poor webdesigners who have to cater for Internet Explorer Users make our lives easier, fix CSS 2 Support I beg you.

    Some sites which you should visit are postitioniseverything.com

    add favicons, Allow users to be able to block everything on the site from images, cookies, javascript, java, popups and flash.

    Please just fix up CSS2 problems, is it just to hard to do?

  247. Anonymous says:

    FOUND THE REFRESH BUTTON!!!

    I did it by accident too. It’s between the address window list dropdown button and the search window towards the top right.

    Kind of like it there, but really feel it should be down with the other buttons where we’re most familiar, or at the least, an option to have it there.

  248. Anonymous says:

    Well, I downloaded and used IE 7.0 and so far I am disapointed at the functionality, performance is ok, but overall functionality leaves much, much to be desired, especially the tabs capability.

    I am also surprise at the number of sites that no longer work after the move to disable scriptlet support and replace it with behaviors.

    Overall I think it is an OK product, it is unfortunate that it has not lived up to its promises.

    I hope that beta 2 brings some improvements.

    For now, is back to the IE6.

  249. Anonymous says:

    Hello.

    There are still major dev. still going on.

    Still, it is good to find so many users interested in IE 7.

    It rocks.

    DSL users will enjoy the new integrated tweaks.

    Wait a while. Let us present our reports first.

    Best regards,

    Shah.M.Fadil Auckburaully

    VB/ASP.NET Programmer

  250. Anonymous says:

    It’s Beta 1. It’s in Beta. Everybody grow up pro or con. If you are testing it, be constructive (otherwise why are you even in the Beta program). If you aren’t then get over it.

    Beta is part of the development life cycle to make a better product. It’s not for all the little whiny kids to get their hands on so they can play with a new toy.

  251. Anonymous says:

    Microsoft is under so much presure from clients that bought software assurance that they have to push Windows Vista as much as they can even do microsoft XP works lovely! why are we going to upgrade to Vista is it worth it for a company to upgrade from XP to Vista? unless you have software assurance contrat? I think they should release more features for Xp. Even that they know that 40% of the companies are still using !!old windows 2000. OH well!!! we will have to migrate to vista buy the OS, and also upgrade the hardware as well, and upgrade the software that we use… and retrain, and of course forget MS-DOS and learn the new interactive shell codenamed Monad (MSH). Uffff that is a lot of money and resources… but Bill says we have to so i suppose we do…

  252. Anonymous says:

    I think there is nothing great abt internet explorer 7 . You people still havent developed it enough to support W3C CSS.2 .. Its still the old stuff with no much improvments what the big deal with desiging new interface with tabs and logos if you guys cant fix the major issues. check out the review internet explorer has got in

    http://www.mezzoblue.com/archives/2005/07/28/ie7_css_upda/

    Personally i feel microsost doesnt give a damn about the W3C standards since 80% of the people world wide use it.

    Its nothing but a headache for webdevelopers and designer.

  253. Anonymous says:

    Really Simple what?… or is it.. Rich Site something? Hands up those of you who’ve had a bit of evangelism to the uninitiated about the wonders of RSS Feeds thrown off course by a pointless explanation about what the letters…

  254. Anonymous says:

    When I paste a URl into the address bar, I should be able to click the "Go" button. For example, I right click in the address bar and hit paste to put my url in. Yet the Go button is still the refresh button. Can you please fix this?

    Thanks,

    Bob

  255. Anonymous says:

    I’ve had some layout issues using MediaWiki’s wiki implementation. The edit page seems to go crazy. Bank of America’s page doesn’t look right in IE7.

    And I got a hard crash while trying to checkout on the family GE website. It’s a javascript link. the checkout page appears, but I get the following error when I click the link and when I acknowledge the error, the browser closes and I can’t complete my checkout:

    Runtime Error!

    Program C:Program FilesInternet Exploreriexplore.exe

    R6025

    – pure virtual function call

  256. Anonymous says:

    can i just ask how many people actually use Microsoft windows today and is there a website which show the stats of all operating systems. i no this has nothing to do with this topic but would appreciate help thanks

    billi1

  257. Anonymous says:

    I have been playing around with Vista, I REALLY miss the Add remove windows components. I notice a lot of sites I go to have java and IE7 does not display them correctly. I feel a lot has to be fixed and if something doesn’t happen soon the 2006 deadline will not happen!!!

  258. Anonymous says:

    hey, i’ve been playing around with IE 7

    You need to keep everything the same as previous browsers, such as the toolbar being up the top etc.

    also there needs to be a refresh button in there! i know you can right-click but the average user wont know that!!

    and also another problem is when you close the browser it closes all TABS that are open. there needs to be a second layer of protection because everyone will be used to closing the browser etc.

    i reckon if everything looks the same as IE 6 + the tabbed browsing it will be a good browser and i would use IE over Firefox

    cheers

  259. Anonymous says:

    first of all: i like win os and ie 7 since they are easy to use and i’m expecting ie 7 beta x (x>=2).

    every improvement,even if the smallest,is to be appreciated.

    i’ve tried 3 times the installation of sp2 + ie 7.0 beta and got this trouble: ie 7.0 beta 1 handicaps Babylon pro, which is a electronic dictionary.

    how i got this is that: babylon runs quiet well in sp2 but after the installtion of ie 7.0 beta 1, babylon can’t find any already installed glossary and gives no explanation.

    i don’t think the interference of IE 7.0 beta 1 into the functioning of babylon is through a complicated mechanism, though i’ve only the faintest idea of how an electronic dictionary functions in win 32 platform.

    i’m not a developer 🙁

    if anyone here have some idea on how to fix or circumvent this. please help me out by posting the reply here.

    thanks!

  260. Anonymous says:

    When releasing browsers, especially beta versions, can you please not make them replace the previous version?

    IE7 does not support all sites that are supported by IE6, so I am unable to reach many sites (most of which are internal tools for my company and therefore highly necessary). Just let it install in separate unqique place instead of auto-upgrading the old stable accepted version.

  261. Anonymous says:

    Today we released Internet Explorer 7 for Windows XP. I encourage everyone to download the final version