More on my Alaska Airlines Situation

I've spoken with several people from Alaska Airlines. What I've learned, the person on the front lines (the main reservation number) can generally get you in touch with the right person...eventually. So I had to make a call to "customer care" and "central baggage' first. Linda in Boise was sympathetic (and very nice...someone give her a raise) and told me to document what I remember of the the incident. I called Customer Care the next day and spoke with Laurie who seemed totally shocked by the situation and sent me off to "Central Baggage". In "Central Baggage" I talked to a guy who couldn't have cared less, at least that was my impression. He pretty much just wanted me to fax the note over to him and get off the phone. But I had to remind myself that he's not in a customer facing job so I suspect he was wondering why the heck anyone sent me to him in the first place. I got 2 more voice mails at work (see, they figured out where I worked without me telling them) and 4 more at home with personal cell-phone numbers, etc. I called Ray, the Director of Customer Care back on Friday night. He told me they had already started an investigation (that's good) and would do something for me from a customer standpoint when we get through all this and he said he knew I was a frequent flier and good customer. I know I had another message from someone else in "Central Baggage" and I believe another one from ops. Anyway, Ray told me I would be dealing with him and their ops VP. At the VERY least, they are taking this thing seriously.

Today I e-mailed over a scanned copy of the offending note to Ray as well as my description of everything I remember. There's every indication that the guy is going to get fired when they figure out who he is. Ray seemed to think that the guy was doing it to set someone else up (with the phone number) and said that they had tried reverse directory. I really hope they can figure out who did this and that there's some accountability.

Anyway, I'll let you all know what happens. I think that either this is going to be a good story about how Alaska makes things right or it's just going to be a creepy story that I tell people when I am sitting on a plane from another airlines. Seriously, I'm all for giving Alaska the benefit of the doubt because they do seem intent on correcting this situation and they seemed genuinely concerned. If their follow-through lives up to my expectations, I'll be considering that this is all about one creepy guy who their contractor hired and how a company ensured customer loyalty under really bad circumstances. We'll see.


Comments (48)

  1. A-Nonymous says:

    Sounds like they will find the person. Also places like Alaska Airlines and other airlines keep files on all their employees. So if you write a letter in support of an employee who did a good job, they get recognition. The companies like hearing about people who went over and above.

  2. heaths says:

    Would that be the same accountability they showed when they had Menzies fire the guy that caused depressurization at 26,000 feet and *didn’t tell anyone*? Wait – they didn’t. I wrote a letter to Alaska regarding that issue and they gave me some quick reply back about how they’re getting 25 security expert from Menzies to watch over things. Great – I feel better now that Menzies in charge of themselves for once!

    Good luck. I hope justice is done in your case.

  3. asdf says:

    I doubt you’ll get very far when dealing with airlines:

  4. Hello? says:

    A guy tells you you have a nice butt and you’re all for getting him fired? Wow!

    Interesting perspective.

  5. Charlie says:

    You assume that the person behind your unpleasant experience is a male.

    Do you base your assumption on hand-writing analyisis? Stereo-typing?

  6. Nicholas says:

    There are forensic handwriting analysts that could probably tell who the writer of the note was (given a sample), even if the creep were trying to conceal his writing. Just in case it’s a set-up and the phone number is unreliable.

  7. HeatherLeigh says:

    A-non-good to know. My experience so far on Alaska has been good other than this one incident.

    Heath-I have to give them the benefit of the doubt when I have a them on the phone with me telling me what they are going todo. Either they do it or they don’t…we’ll definitely see.

    Hello?- in a service industry, you don’t do that to customers. Frankly, I am shocked that I have to explain that to some people. Not every woman is flattered by that (and like I said, I don’t think this is about my butt or sex). If you would like to have someone enter your luggage and leave a creepy note, that’s great. The folks at Alaska corporate seem to be pretty morified by the whole thing so I’m guessing you might be the exception.

    Charlie, I answered you on the other string. I saw the guy. Please stop trolling. It’s getting old.

  8. Jay says:

    Oh please hello?

    There are less offensive ways to tell someone you think they are attractive and would like to go out….

    Oh yeah he doesn’t want to go out he just wants sex.

    This guy definately stepped over the line and considering he could go through personal items and do who knows what with them he has no right to be in that position

  9. HeatherLeigh says:

    Update…got an e-mail from a SVP at Alaska apologizing for the situation and asking me to re-fax the note (for some reason it wasn’t readable). Again, they seem to be taking this seriously.

  10. Matt says:

    I think what most people miss is the marketing and customer service impact this has. Remember the old customer service adage that goes something like this? "One upset customer will tell ten other people who will tell ten other people who will…" (I know that’s not the exact phrasing. Don’t go there! If you have been through any basic Sales / Cust. Serv training, you have heard it and know what it means.). Already Heather has told um… maybe a couple of thousand "other people". ( Hey Troll! Back Off! She has a right to. It’s her blog and it was her privacy that was invaded! ). And how do you handle this kinda attention if it gets to the mainstream press. Change directions in advertising? Market to single, sex starved flyers and hope that that will pickup all the lost revenue from the business and vacation flyers who went with a another airline?

  11. JenK says:

    Hello? – The perp opened her suitcase. The perp could have screwed with medications, electronics, you name it. That is very very creepy.

    A compliment could have been delivered in person. This is not appropriate.

  12. Jon Bright says:

    Alaska recently outsourced their ramp services (including baggage handling). This isn’t the only problem since. See

  13. HeatherLeigh says:

    Matt-extemely well said! Thanks for your support! I’ll definitely let you know how Alaska fixes this thing. Wasn’t necessarily just trying to complain. I thikn they have a real opportunity here to fix this and I’ll tell you all about it if they do. Like I said, I’m encouraged to believe that they will.


  14. anon says:

    This might be why people get private airplanes. If you keep blogging, you may get mobbed for autographs.

  15. Neal says:

    Worst part about crappy things like this is that they have the potential to completely distract, at least me, from my original goals. I’m sure you’re going about all the other things you were working on before this – but I’m sure this has an impact. At least your Seahawks made it to the SuperBowl??

  16. HeatherLeigh says:

    Anon- interesting idea…it’s not in my budget ; ) If anyone asked for my autograoh ever, I’d have a hard time not laughing.

    Neal-not really affecting my work. Updating my blog, even the personal stuff, is part of my job, so just part of my normal day. Also, I don’t have a 8-5 type job so I do what I need to do. Other than having to fax copies of the note, there’s nothing that’s distracted from my job (the calls with folks from Alaska have not been from work anyway). And trust me, my chain of command told me to make sure I follow up on the issue so I don’t think they’d be surprised that I took 5 minutes to fax over a copy of the note. I have the kind of job where there are so many things going on at once that I kind of get good at focusing on one thing for blocks of time.

    Now I have to admit that I am not really a pro football fan so I’m happy for people here that are happy that the Seahawks are going to to the Superbowl, but it’s not as interesting to me personally. In fact, my mon’s n town and she’s a Panthers fan and went to the game. She had a great time except for the outcome ; )

  17. Neal ( a different one ) says:

    I think the point being made about it not being a man is legitimate… doubtful that’s the case.. but possible. You assume, rightfully so, that the baggage man who you said hi to was the one who placed the note. It’s not impossible that it was the (or one of) the flight attendants though. Suppose one of them disliked the guy, perhaps dates or dated him, and saw you say hi and him maybe turn to check you out as you boarded… a little get even time!? Again, it’s not that I think this is the case, but it is possible.

  18. HeatherLeigh says:

    My impression, based on my conversations with the Alaska folks, is that the flight attendants wouldn’t handle the tags on pet carriers. I suspect that once the carriers leave the check-in area, they aren’t touched by flight attendants. I really don’t know if there are females on the baggage crew. I’ve never seen any, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t. The Alaska people I’ve spoken with obviously have access to that info and they have been referring to the person who did this as a "he". If that changes, I’ll let you guys know.

    I’m not big on conspiracy theories though. If the person who did this ends up to be a female, you all will be the first to know.

  19. Purvin says:

    I agree that AA needs to do an above and beyond effort to resolve this issue. Not just from a "eww, that’s creepy that handlers go through your bags", but more from a marketing nightmare standpoint. Seems like customer service and marketing should be working together on this. Customer service stands on the frontlines in quelling potential marketing nightmares. And in the case of the lovely (yes I said it nicely) Heather, one would think that with her audience reach…a negative or less than satisfactory result in rectifying this would be relayed to her loyal readers. Not to say that she would be doing a blackball like scenerio; but really, AA has already had bad press on other issues. They have a loyal customer who probably had no real issues with AA and even maybe have evangelized AA to an extent. If I was AA marketing, I would be listening for anything out of customer service after a bad press event. Word of mouth marketing is often overlooked. And the impact of losing a loyal customer in that scenerio would be like losing 10s or 100s or even 1000s of return business.

    I have been a loyal Delta flyer and often relate to other flyers on how they have gone beyond the call of duty to make my experiences better, and I don’t really sweat paying a bit more for that. Loyalty exists in every aspect of marketing. And companies often don’t realize that your loyal customers are paramount in gaining more business.

    Heather – Hope you get some sort of resolution from this.

  20. JohnCKirk says:

    (In case you’re interested, I came here via The Old New Thing.)

    Heather, you have my sympathies regarding this entire situation (including the clueless comments from some other people).

    If it was just the note in your bag, then there might be a case for saying "Ok, he just did the equivalent of sticking a note under your door, and he didn’t nose through your stuff". But if he’s been contacting you since then, that’s rather more worrying, and I would certainly feel that my privacy had been violated.

    I also think that you’re doing the right thing by complaining to the airline; they can’t fix the problem unless they know about it, and I think it’s fair to say that this guy doesn’t belong in his current job.

  21. Andy says:

    Well I’m glad it was only a note they placed when they screwed around with your stuff. It is creepy as h3ll to have had that happen to you. I’m sure when it’s all over and done with you’ll crack jokes about it. I hope they find the guy and do whatever they can to make his life h3ll.

  22. Ryan says:

    So heather, I’m trying to figure out how know it’s a male. Because well that’s realy relevent. 😉

  23. kim says:

    Hi Heather:

    Long time reader, first time commenter, but as a female business traveler too, I felt so compelled after reading this…

    Not only appalled by the incident itself, but completely outraged at a few of the comments suggesting you shrug this off. Unbelievable!

    I appreciate your approach to this as an AA customer service issue. (Although I don’t think it should take several days to check work records given the heightened security measures, but will give them the benefit of the doubt).

    Important issue for me is your perosnal safety. Agree w/ Matt that the guy could have deeper problems. "I want to have sex with you" is not your typical, innocent, secret admirer note.

    Not to freak you out further, but I hope your luggage tags didn’t have your home address or personal phone number??

    OK, I’ll get off my paranoid soapbox now (probably been watching too much TV!!)

    I’m sure it will net out as simply poor judgement/stupid stunt! In any case, I hope they find the guy, fire him AND notify the legal authorities, just in case.

    Good luck. Take care.

  24. Scott says:

    I’m still working on why you haven’t filed a police report? Or have you?

  25. HeatherLeigh says:

    John C. Kirk- yeah, the thing is there’s an invasion of privacy and it’s scary to be a single female and have that happen to you. I don’t know how I could describe it to someone that isn’t, but in life, as a female (not saying that some males wouldn’t feel the same), there are safety considerations when you travel; which is why some hotels have female only floors. If I can’t make people understand how it feels, that is fine. I don’t expect everyone to know how it feels. But I get your point…thanks for commenting ; )

    Andy-thanks for understanding. I hope for the same.

    Ryan-I already addressed that.

    Kim-thanks for what you wrote. Unfortunately, it did have my address on the bag. When I realized that my stomach dropped (don’t worry, I realized it when I was in Vegas, not when reading your comment ; )). All the more reason that I want them to do something ASAP. I agree that it’s probably a "stupid stunt" case but it’s just scary. Thanks for jumping in as a fellow female business traveler. I also think the "shrug it off" stuff is ridiculous.

  26. HeatherLeigh says:

    Scott-I am not clear on whether a crime has been committed and I think it’s a port authority jurisdiction versus police. When I hear back from Alaska, I will find out what reporting requirements they have. I havne’t spoken to them in person since Friday.

  27. Scott says:

    I’m not sure it’s up to you to determine if a crime has been committed. It certainly isn’t up to AA. The police can tell you if any crime has been committed and what charges you can file.

    If the bag had your address on it, you should call the police for sure. What will you do if the notes start showing up in your mail or on your door?

    It’s better to file a report now and lay the groundwork JUST IN CASE this person surfaces again. Maybe he has done it to a lot of other women and the police are watching him?

    If you call the police, they will tell you whether or not you should call the PA. You haven’t heard back from them since Friday? It’s not up to AA to determine what you should do when one of their employees, or a federal employee, leaves a note in your bag telling you what physical action he wants to take with you. Jeez.

  28. anon says:

    This also might be why some people get jobs that do not require flying. Some great, high-quality people have an aversion to flying.

    Traveling a lot is glamorous and sounds fun. And it is fun to have a dynamic job that requires activities in different parts of the country. It also says something about a person who works in such a job – strong, adventurous, confident, ambitious.

    But sometimes a plain-old job with no airplanes is kind of nice. Road trips can also be fun.

  29. MG says:

    [found via Raymond Chen’s blog]

    Wow. I’m shocked that this would happen. Heather, have any of the local news channels picked up on this? Yet _another_ black eye for Alaska Air.

    Six months ago I would have given Alaska Air an "A+" for their service, but this, all the Menzies problems, and a nightmare experience which my family had over Thanksgiving week has earned Alaska Airlines a "D" grade. I’m going to start looking elsewhere for my flight needs.

  30. Coleman says:


    A few things come to mind here.

    1) When traveling, I always place my business card (with the *business* address) in my luggage tag. There are many tales of people’s homes being invaded due to home addresses being on luggage tag. This is a tip I learned a long time ago, and I follow it every time I travel, business or otherwise. So, a lost bag gets returned to your office instead of your home. I’d rather face that than a ransacked home when I get back from my trip.

    2) It’s irrelevant if it’s a male or female. It’s irrelevant that the note said you "have a nice butt." Someone invaded your privacy. They could just have easily have stolen something from your bag or damaged something in your bag. I wonder, would that cause a different reaction from folks like Charlie?

    3) You should really inform the TSA about this as well. This is really a security breach as well as a privacy issue.

    While it will be interesting to see how Alaska Air responds to this, I for one will never, ever fly on that airline for just this reason. Yes, it’s "one bad seed", but you never know.

    I hope that everything is resolved to your satisfaction, though.

  31. HeatherLeigh says:

    Scott-the note didn’t threaten me. I don’t think that being creepy is against the law. If breaking into someone’s luggage is, I still believe it’s the Port Authority that hold jurisdiction in airports…someone might know better than I.

    anon-I hear wha tyou are saying and I know people that don’t like to travel. I definitely see my situation as an isolated incident. Never before has anything like this happened to me in all my business travels.

    MG-not yet, but on TV last night the Channel 5 news was playing up how Alaska Air is "in the black" now from having laid off their baggage handlers and contracting with Menzies, despite a few mishaps (or however they put it) and customer complaints. It was ironic, at the very least.

    Colman- One blogger even posted on his blog that I should "get over it Lady" because I’m not "that HOT" (of course this same person was posting my blog posts in their entirety until I told him to knock it off). I think the angry people honestly don’t get the real issue. You are right Coleman, it’s not about my butt; it’s the privacy invasion and the security risk.

    I’m going to really try to get on the phone with Alaska today and find out about whether they reported it and to whom.

    I really appreciate all the support here!

  32. Scott says:

    "Scott-the note didn’t threaten me. I don’t think that being creepy is against the law. If breaking into someone’s luggage is, I still believe it’s the Port Authority that hold jurisdiction in airports…someone might know better than I. "


    "You are right Coleman, it’s not about my butt; it’s the privacy invasion and the security risk."

    What security risk? What privacy invasion. Hey, if being creepy isn’t against the law, then there’s no security risk right? Is invasion of privacy against the law? Could he come and look in your bedroom window? That’s just creepy right? He could follow you around a mall right? I mean, no harm done. He’s just creepy. He could call your house or drop by right? That’s just creepy.

    I can’t believe I have to even try to convince you that you should contact some kind of police authority and not just trust AA to handle the matter.

    Have you heard back from AA yet?

  33. HeatherLeigh says:

    That would be baggage security. Totally different than being creepy.

    Privacy invasion means entering my luggage. It’s my personal property and he had no right to enter it. Looking into my bedroom window would be a crime, I believe. Stalking would be a crime. He hasn’t done any of those things. I should call the police because he *might* do one of those things? I don’t know. I just see it differently. I’m not trusting AA to handle the matter, which is why I want them to tell me what their requirements are for reporting it. But I still want to give them the opportunity to handle it. If they don’t then I will. I’m not dismissing the issue of my personal safety. I just don’t think I have recourse inthat regard unless/until something more happens. If you have an idea of an actual crime against me he comitted (versus breaking a regulation imposed by the government, please share). It’s not like this has ever happened to me before…I’m no expert.

    I am supposed to call the SVP at AA today. I’ve been on other calls this AM but will be talking to them today and will update the blog on that.

  34. Tosh Hida says:

    I don’t suppose you tried a "revere phone number lookup"? You could try it on . Still, there’s only a slim chance you’d get a match. But there are companies out there that are more reliable.

    You must be somewhat curious as to who this person is.

  35. Coleman says:

    Scott – The last I checked, invasion of privacy is against the law. "Peeping toms" are arrested and charged with a crime. People who plant "toilet cams" get busted if they didn’t get proper permission, etc. Invasion of privacy is the crime and the "harm" committed here. Yes, they could "follow her around the mall", but as soon as she is touched, that’s a crime. And, guess what? There’s tons of harm done there.

    The security risk is that someone not TSA opened the bag *after* it had been through the security check points. That’s a HUGE security risk. That’s the whole reason you’re asked if anyone else has handled your bags (or whatever the correct wording to that security question is) when you check your luggage.

    And, how would you feel if you got to your destination only to realize your laptop or other valuable had been stolen or damaged in someway by the "creepy person" handling your bags. I promise you’d be pretty angry, and be screaming for justice. Somehow, "get over it" just wouldn’t cut it would it?

    Heather, when you speak to the SVP I would certainly mention that you’re considering contacting the TSA about this situation. Whether AA "handles it" internally or not, TSA should look into this and see if it’s ever happened before.

  36. HeatherLeigh says:

    Tosh-AA tried that right off the bat. I’m actually not curious. I don’t care who it is as long as the person doesn’t get to have that job. Getting an actual name of someone won’t really do much to make me feel any better.

    Coleman-I totally agree with you and I definitely will take your advice and pursue the TSA thing. It’s actually been really helpful to me to have you all to talk to about this (even though I don’t really know many of you folks personally). It’s made me think about things that I wouldn’t ordinarily think about because it’s hard to be objective when you are just plain old weirded out. I mean, the people who tell me to "get over it" or "be flattered" or whatever are relatively easy to disregard. But the people, like yourself, that are offering insight and advice are helping a LOT. Thank you!

  37. Matt S says:

    x2 on the TSA comments

    From my experience TSA has left notices on my bags if they are ever inspected, including for a bag that only had zippers. They will break the locks on your bag if they need to get in to inspect, but they will leave you a note telling you they inspected. TSA should care that this guy was inside your bag.

  38. Purvin says:

    I started to think more about this. Just think prior to 9/11 as to maybe how much more frequently/easily this could have happened. And I must agree if this handler represents the "last hands touching baggage before it enters an airplane", I just got a real bad feeling. If someone with that much unprofessionalism is hired to represent that position, then who else can qualify for that job?

    This goes back to a horrible marketing nightmare that this can stir up. From a very unfortunate incident, we have all commented in some fashion on it. That’s 37 posts (including Heather’s feedback). One person whose one experience (negative being) with AA has possibly made 20 odd people think twice about maybe flying AA. And those 20 odd people have friends. And the more creepy the story (and it is), the more it can be relayed around.

  39. HeatherLeigh says:

    Purvin…I actually did think twice about blogging about this too, but I almost felt like I had to or at least that I should. I mean, I couldn’t think of a good reason why I shouldn’t. It’s a powerful medium. I’m not telling anyone not to fly Alaska. Just sharing my experience and they can decide as an educated consumer.

    Well, I’ve left 2 voicemails for the SVP that asked me to call him today and no returned call yet. One week later and no resolution. As time goes on, I don’t start to feel better about their interest in fixing the situation. But I guess we’ll see.

  40. HeatherLeigh says:

    OK, just spoke with Glenn, their SVP. Nice guy. Evidently, the gal I spoke with in reservations sent an e-amil to the President imediately after taking my first call (good for her…wish she worked here). My understanding is that they took statements from the baggage handlers and the person that gate checked my bag said he remembered my bag and he didn’t do it. They are checking handwriting against the contractors’ files. Their security department is doing some more work (beyond reverse directory) to investigate the phone number. Tomorrow, their head of security is going to give me a call so we can discuss filing a report of some kind with the port authority. Also, they are giving me a free round trip. Who knows when I’d have time to use it but the gesture is important.

    So it was a good conversation and I am starting to feel better and I expressed how important it is for me to actually know they have fired the person that did this and that we create some documentation with a legal authority since this person had access to my address (especially if the person is fired).

    So that is where it stands right now.

  41. Matt says:

    I hope that the TSA does do a internal investigation on this matter. Like my earlier post, I feel this would be a good opportunity for the TSA in your airport. I don’t fly often but when I do, don’t mind the extra time for extra security measures. I would feel a bit more safer flying out of any airport that shows they are serious about the public’s safety. "Hey! Flying public! Here’s what we do and how we handle these matters when things like this happen. Be it a joke, prank or just Joe Freako who works out on the ramp getting his jollies." My family’s, friend’s, fellow coworker’s lives and safety are of the utmost importance! So step up Seattle TSA and give all other TSA locations the challenge. I will be damn happy to wait while the best TSA location does their job and ensures all of our safety!

  42. Fly Girl says:

    Glad to see that the situation is resolving, even if not completed yet.

    I think it’s important for people to realize that an investigation must take place. That is, there are lots of people from whom statements and evidence must be taken. It’s part of our concept of "due process" and also ensures that the correct person is disciplined. Sounds like that is happening.

    Invasion of privacy is not a crime. "Peeping Toms" are not charged with invasion of privacy, nor are stalkers. It is most likely criminal trespass, assault (or attempted assault), or some sort of intimidation charge. Laws may be different, depending on the jurisdiction.

    It also is not up to an individual whether or not charges are filed against someone. That is totally within the perogative of the district attorney’s office. The police department will collect information and forward it to the district attorney for a decision about what to do. Although an individual can make telephone calls urging a particular action, it is us to the attorney’s office.

    Heather, I think you are taking all reasonable and rational steps to resolve a VERY creepy and unsettling occurrence. It also sounds like the involved parties are responding in a like fashion. I hope you’ll have a new blog post when resolution is finally achieved.

  43. Ewwww, yuck! I’m creeped out for you.

    I’d be seriously upset that someone was in my bag other than the TSA. There’s an Australian gal ( serving 20 years in a Bali prison for trafficking pot. She claims innocence, and that baggage handlers placed the pot in her bag at one end, with their contact at the other end supposed to get it out.

    I don’t like to play the "what if" game, but that could have been more than just a creepy note.

  44. Tim says:

    Just catching up on your posts. Wow, Heather, that is infinitely creepy. Even by LA standards. Yes, that person really needs to find another place to work. Try to remember that there are thousands of nice people for every creep. The numbers are on our side.

  45. me says:

    Ugh! Good luck in getting this resolved.

    And ya might want to check the IP addresses of some of your detractors … when that guy posted about his experinece on the Alaska Airlines flight that decompressed, some of his trolls were using Alaska Airlines IP addresses.

  46. HeatherLeigh says:

    MAtt- it totally agree. Though I have found the odd link to my post with refernce to my overreacting. Whatever. Anyway, I’m with you…I’m very patient with the security measures but with someone going to to my bag uninvited…,not so much.

    Check out Fly Girl with all the answers. I love it! FG, are you in the industry or is that your screen name because you are cool? Maybe both? ; )

    Richard Dudley-that’s scary!


    "me" (as opposed to me…hee!)- I saw that too and I wondered where some of those detractors came from and why they cared. This might shock you because I am a Microsoft employee but I have no idea how to check an IP address. I am monitoring inbound links and ther are some coming from some very interesting places though.

  47. One Louder says:

    I got an mass e-mail yesterday from Alaska Airlines. I guess I get these because I have a frequent flyer

  48. Ex Alaska employee says:

    Hi.. I use to work for Alaska Airlines as one of those laid off baggage handlers that was replaced by menzies.. HELLO! What did people expect when Alaska decided to hire the LOW end of the barrel work force for 8 bucks an hour? You are going to get the worst..  Get use to it when ya fly Alaska..  Fly for cheap and ya get what ya pay for!

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