Why is it a bad idea to put script objects in Session scope?


a web site will have a series of related pages requested one after the other by the
same user.  As a convenience for the site
developers, the ASP object model provides a Session object to store server-side state
for a current user.  It also has a global
"Application" object which stores state for an entire virtual root. 


so often some ASP coder out there tries to put a JScript or VBScript object into the
Session (or Application) object.  Things
usually start going horribly wrong shortly thereafter -- either terrible performance
ensues or things just break outright.


like Groucho says, if it hurts when you do that, don't do that!  Understanding
why this is a bad idea will take us yet deeper into the land of threading models.




mentioned earlier that when you have an apartment threaded object, you need to be
in the right apartment (thread) if you want to talk to its occupants (object instances).  But
what if you are not?  What if you are
running some code in thread Alpha that really needs to call a method on an
object running in thread Beta?  Fortunately,
COM provides a mechanism called cross-thread
to achieve this. 


behind-the-scenes details are not particularly important to our discussion; suffice
to say that windows messages are involved.  The
important thing to know is that when you marshal a call across threads the
calling thread pauses until the called thread responds
That seems reasonable -- after all, when you call an ordinary function you sort of
"pause" until the function returns. 


threads are usually busy doing something.  I
f the called
thread is not responding to messages because it is busy doing work of its own then
the calling thread waits, and waits, and waits...


continue with our previous apartment threading analogy, it is rather like each apartment
has a mailbox.  If you're in apartment
Beta and you need someone in apartment Alpha to do something for you, you write up
a request and hand it to the mailman who in turn sticks it in Alpha's mailslot.  Alpha's
occupants might be busy doing work and ignoring their mail, or they may have a huge
stack of mail to get through, or they might get right on it.  You,
over in apartment Beta, can't do anything but wait for the mailman to deliver their


of course, even if the callee thread is completely responsive and ready to service
your request, obviously calling across threads is orders of magnitude more expensive
than calling in-thread.  An in-thread
call requires some arguments to be put on the stack and maybe stash a few values in
registers.  A cross-thread call gets the
operating system involved in a comparatively deep and complex way.




you have enough information to figure out why putting script objects in Session scope
is a bad idea as far as performance is concerned. 


ASP page is running on its own thread from the thread pool.  The
thread that reads the object from session state will likely not be the thread that
put the object there, but the script object is apartment threaded.  That
means that essentially any page that accesses that session object must wait its turn
for all other pages using that session object to finish up, because the marshaling
code blocks the calling thread until the callee is available.
end up with a whole lot of blocking threads, and blocking threads are not fast. 


scope is even worse -- if you put a script object in Application scope then every
page in the entire vroot that accesses the Application object must wait its turn
the original thread to be free.  You've
effectively single-threaded your web server.


Engine Of The Living Dead


it gets worse.  Remember, when the page
is done being served up, the engine is torn down.  The
compiled state remains, but the runtime state is thrown away.  So
suppose you have a JScript object sitting in the Session object, and the page that
put it there was destroyed a few microseconds ago and the engine put back into the
engine pool.  Now on another page in the
same session you try to fetch the JScript object and call a method on it.  Where's
the runtime state associated with that object?  It's
gone, dude. 


the script engine is torn down after the original page is served, the teardown code
detects that there are existing objects that are owned by external callers.  The
script engine can't destroy these objects, otherwise the caller would crash when the
caller tried to destroy them later.  That's
a fundamental rule of COM -- you can't destroy an object to which someone holds a


we know that the object is going to be useless, so what we do is tell the object "the
engine you require for life is going away.  Throw
away everything you own and become a zombie." 


zombie objects look like script objects, but when you actually try to do something
to them -- call a method, fetch a property, whatever -- they don't actually do anything.  They
can't -- all the infrastructure they need to live is gone, but they can't die.  Basically
they wander the night in ghostly torment until they are freed by whatever code is
holding the reference.


not only are those script objects sitting in Session state wrecking your performance,
they're not even useful for anything once the original page goes away.


Windows Script Components each have their own engine which stays alive as long as
they do, so WSC's are not affected by the zombie issue.  They
are still apartment threaded though.


Are Almost As Bad


arrays are objects, so everything said above applies to them.  VBScript
arrays are not objects (more on the differences between these two kinds of arrays
later) but even still, you shouldn't put them in Session scope either.  Though
they do not suffer from the threading problems or the lifetime problems mentioned
above, arrays are stored into and passed out of Session scope using our old friend
copy-in-copy-out semantics.  That means
that every
single time
you index into an array in Session scope, a
copy of the array is made first
.  If
that array is big, that's a big performance problem. 


do we do copy-in-copy-out?  Because arrays
are not marshaled!  We return to the fundamental
problem: what if two pages tried to read and write the array in the Session object
at the same time?  The memory could be
corrupted.  We really don't have any good
way to synchronize access to the array, so instead we simply make a complete copy
of it every time someone tries to read or write it.  This
is extremely expensive, but it keeps the server heap from being corrupted.  A
corrupted web server heap can ruin your whole day.


advice is to not even go there.  Don’t
put information into Session scope unless you absolutely have to.
you must, put in strings.  There are lots
of ways to store arrays or objects as strings and reconstitute them as needed.


Comments (7)

  1. Blake says:

    Ah yes, on a related note, back in the era of the NT4 Option Pack I wrote a lot of code that involved stashing Scripting.Dictionary objects in both session and application scope. These are normal COM objects and don’t require a script engine, but fraught with their one problems. I forget now which version of the runtime changed the threading model they were registered with and broke everything for me.

  2. Eric Lippert says:

    Uh, yeah, that was my fault. Sorry about that. Everything you just read about ASP and threading is what I learned the day I marked the Scripting.Dictionary object as "Both" instead of "Apartment". I was young and foolish. There were a number of lessons we learned that day, some of which I may post about later.

  3. David Boccabella says:

    I have been reading that the threading capabilities of the Dictionary object has been improved in IIS5 and thus it might be used as an Application variable.

    I am trying to speed up performace by caching results from recordsset into HTML snippets so to reduce database hits


  4. Eric Lippert says:

    You heard wrong then. No one has made a change to the Scripting.Dictionary object for many years now.

  5. Josh Painter says:

    What about stashing a MSXML2.FreeThreadedDOMDocument.3.0 in a Session or Application variable? Is it safer to do this since it is free-threaded? If so, caching the XMLDOM object seems like a better alternative to parsing an XML page on each web page hit, correct? Thanks for your great posts!

  6. Eric Lippert says:

    Free threaded objects are safe in session or application scope and do not introduce the performance penalty associated with marshaling.

    Of course, they might introduce a performance penalty associated with excessive lock contention — without actually trying it out, it’s hard to say.

    Basically what I’m saying is "that should work, but you should try it and see for yourself". Armchair performance analysis is generally worth what you pay for it.

  7. Bill Wilkinson says:

    I have to ask…

    You suggest that if you must use Session "variables" (boy, I hate that name–your "Session Scope" is much cleaner, thanks), you should use strings.

    But consider: The overhead in VBS of doing

    Session("whatever") = Join(someArray,"##")

    and then later doing

    someArray = Split( Session("whatever"), "##" )

    *surely* is worse than the needed copy-in-copy-out for an array? Join may not be terribly "expensive", but Split certainly is. At least when you copy an array you already know how many elements are needed, what the size of each is, etc.

    On top of that, if you are actually working with a 2D array (e.g., the result of ADODB.RecordSet.GetRows), the process of converting that to a string has to be long and painfully slow VBS string concatenation, no?

    So the one exception I’ve always made to "don’t store stuff in session scope" has always been 2D arrays. I just can’t think of a better storage mechanism (well, except maybe moving them to JS arrays on the client, but that’s another topic). [I won’t argue if you want to tell me to go re-query the DB, but there *are* times where that’s not very convenient and/or the performance may suck.]

    Naturally, I *always* use a single "copy in" at the start of the ASP page and a single "copy out" at the end of the page. And then always work with VBS’s local copy.


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