What are the VBScript reference semantics for object members?

in order for VBScript to support variable referencing there has to be a variable to
reference.  "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />Consider
our earlier example:


Sub Change(ByRef

= 5

End Sub


ABC = 123

Change ABC


that had been 
based on what you know from two posts ago, you’d know that this passes
ABC byval,
not byref.  So the assignment to
XYZ would
NOT change
ABC in
this case.


the rule is pretty simple -- if you want to pass a variable by reference, you've got
to pass the variable, period. 


series of posts was inspired by an intrepid scripter who was trying to combine our
previous two examples.  He had a program
that looked something like this:



Class Foo


End Class

Sub Change(ByRef

= 5

End Sub

Dim Blah

Set Blah
= New Foo

= 123

Change Blah.Bar


in fact does not change the value.  This
passes the value of
not a reference to


scripter asked me "why does this not work the way I expect?"  Here's
my Socratic dialog reply to him:


Q: Why
does this not work the way I expect?


Because your expectations are inconsistent with the real universe.  Adjust your
expectations and they'll start being met!


Q: That
is remarkably unhelpful. Let me rephrase: What underlying design principle did the
VBScript developers use to justify this decision to pass by value, not reference?


The fundamental principle that governs this case was "do not be unnecessarily different
from VB6."  VB6 does the same thing.  (Try it if you don't believe me!)


Q: You
are begging the question.  Why does VB6 do that?


Probably for backwards compatibility with VB5, 4, 3, 2 and 1, which incidentally was
called "Object Basic".  Ah, the halcyon days of my youth.


Q: More
question begging!  What was the initial justification on the day that by-reference
calling was added to VB?


That is lost in the mists of time.  That was like ten years ago, dude! 
There are not very many of the original design team left.  I was an intern at
the time and they weren't exactly consulting me on these sorts of decisions on a regular
basis.  It wasn't so much "Eric, what do you think about these by reference semantics?"
as "Eric, the OLE Automation build machine needs more memory, here's a screwdriver."


you're in luck.  I seem to recall back in the dim mists of time someone telling
me something about wanting to avoid copy-in-copy-out semantics on COM objects. 
Suppose for example you said:


Frob = CreateObject("BitBucket.Frobnicator")



so now what happens?  This isn't a VB class, this is some third party COM object.  COM
objects do not have property slots, they have getter/setter accessor functions.
is no way to pass the value of
Frob.Rezrov by
reference because VB does not have psychic powers which tell it where in memory the
implementers of
BitBucket.Frobnicator happened
to store the value of the
Rezrov property. 


that, how could you implement byref semantics?  You could implement copy-in-copy-out
semantics!  VB would have to create a memory location, fill it with the value
returned by
pass the address of that location to
and then upon
SetToFive's return,
it would have to call
Frob::set_Rezrov with
the new value put into the buffer. 


right?  Well, it gets weird once you start thinking about non-trivial functions. 
Consider the case where
SetToFive does
NOT change the value of the by-ref value.  That call to
set_Rezrov may
have side effects -- do we really want to call it if nothing changed?  It seems
like that could potentially cause badness, and certainly cause poor performance. 
In a "realio-trulio byref" system we'd expect zero sets if there was no change but
in copy-in-copy-out we end up with one call to the setter regardless.  How could
we avoid that unwanted call? 


we could create yet another temporary storage to keep the original value around and
do a comparison when
SetToFive returns.
 (Note that I've just waved my hands there; I'm assuming that the two values
can sensibly be compared.  Comparing two
things for equality is non-trivial, but that's another posting.)


what if the temporary storage variable changed during the execution of
SetToFive and
then changed back?  In that case we'd expect two calls to the setter, but actually
end up with no calls!


naïve copy-in-copy-out doesn't provide particularly good fidelity with true byref
addressing. The original designers of VB decided that it was simply not worth
the trouble to do it at all.   It is much easier to simply say that members
of COM objects do not get copy-in-copy-out semantics, and therefore they cannot be
passed by reference.  If you're going to make that restriction for some COM objects,
it seems perverse to say "we'll do this for third party COM objects but not for VB
class objects."  Thus, VBScript does not support passing object properties by

Comments (10)

  1. Matthew says:

    You state:

    A: Probably for backwards compatibility with VB5, 4, 3, 2 and 1, which incidentally was called "Object Basic". Ah, the halcyon days of my youth.

    I think from memory if you have a public member variable in an earlier version of VB (maybe VB 4?) it does actually let you pass it Byref. It was changed in later versions (I can’t find the actual MS article discussing it though).

  2. Eric Lippert says:

    You may well be right. Like I said, it was years and years ago that this decision was made, and I wasn’t exactly heavily consulted at the time. If you happen to find a reference, I’d be amused to see it. Or, perhaps in my copious spare time I’ll look through the VBA source code logs — I have them around here somewhere…

  3. Blake says:

    VB 1 wasn’t called Object Basic the way I remember it. That was just called Thunder. I’m pretty sure the Object Basic moniker came when VB 2 was in the works. There were to be several flavors, Ruby, Silver and something, which eventually became VB, VBA & VBScript.

    Or am I just getting senile?

  4. Eric Lippert says:

    I don’t recall if Object Basic was VB1 or VB2 — that was before my time, as I did not start interning on the VB team until VB3 was underway. But I do remember that we had a big banner in the hallway that said "OBJECT BASIC: Everything BASIC evolves!"

    Indeed, Silver was the code name for VBA3 and Ruby was the code name for VB3. VBScript didn’t come along until many years later, and it never really had a code name.

  5. Ziv Caspi says:

    Rezrov? Frob?

    Nice to see someone still remembers ye good olde Infocom days…

  6. Stephen Sulzer says:

    My memory tells me, from being an intern on VB3 too, way back when, that:

    "Object Basic" (OB) was the code name for VBA. It was a rewrite of the Basic language engine for VB4, to include built-in support for OLE Automation. VBA of course was also embedded into the Office products. I thought "Silver" was another original codename for the OB/VBA engine. OB was developed in parallel with VB3. VB 1 thru 3 used the old "EB" (Embedded Basic) language engine.

    "Thunder" was the code name for VB1 (and maybe VB2 and 3 too). "Ruby" was the codename of the VB forms engine component, which lived up thru VB6.

  7. I was talking about reference types vs. by-reference variables a while back. Recall that both JScript and VBScript have reference types (ie, objects) but JScript does not have by-reference variables. COM supports passing variable references around, but unfortunately the intersection of early-bound COM and late-bound IDispatch is a little bit goofy.

  8. It occurs to me that there may be some confusion about what exactly

  9. 2003/09/12 What’s Up With Hungarian Notation? 2003/09/12 Eric’s Complete Guide To BSTR Semantics 2003/09/12…

Skip to main content