Beta to RC Changes – Turning Windows Features On or Off


The theme of “choice and control” has been applied in many aspects of how we have designed Windows 7. We’ve certainly received lots of positive feedback about the theme and about the choices we’ve made in the design, and we’ve also received a few suggestions for how we might continue to implement this theme in the future. We’ve received feedback for features that should be even more customizable (such as Explorer or the logon screen) or features that should be added to Windows (such as a PDF format reader, security tools, or disk utilities). And we’ve received feedback that some users might prefer to run Windows without certain features. This post is about a point of choice and control in the Windows 7 control panel called “Windows Features” which is where you can choose to turn various features of Windows on or off. This continues our discussion of changes we have made based on feedback from the Beta as we progress to the Release Candidate. This post is by Jack Mayo who is the group program manager for our Documents and Printing team and also worked on Internet Explorer 8. –Steven


“Turning Windows Features On or Off” has a long history in Windows, going back to the earliest days of the 32-bit code base. We’ve received a lot of suggestions about features that you would like to turn on or off using your own criteria for choice. For Windows 7 we’ve engineered a more significant list of features and worked to balance that list in light of the needs of the broad Windows platform as well. We want to provide choice while also making sure we do not compromise on compatibility by removing APIs provided for developers. We also want to strike the right balance for consumers in providing choice and balancing compatibility with applications and providing a consistent Windows experience.


We know many have specific ideas of what constitutes a “feature” or a “program” in Windows and what constitutes an identifiable “part” of the operating system, and yet we also know different people can have different points of view, often strongly held. Some might take an end-user approach and identify a feature based on a window or start menu shortcut. Some might take an approach based on one perspective of architectural subsystems, such as storage or security. Some might take an approach based on what to some are alternate choices to some similar functionality. All of these are valid in some context, but would not result in consistently identifying “features” considering these varied points of view. As engineers we know that no software system can be decomposed into an arbitrary set of layers or parts and any decomposition is likely to change over time.


We don’t want the discussion about this feature or these choices to digress into a philosophical discussion about the definition of an operating system, which is ultimately a challenging exercise (judging by the revision history on the community page), but we do want to improve a feature centered on helping to meet the feedback expressed by some over the summer when this blog started.


In the Release Candidate for Windows 7 we have extended the control panel called “Windows Features” which is available from the standard “Programs and Features” control panel (we often call this ARP, for the original name of Add/Remove Programs). This location is unchanged from Vista and XP, though the wording has been clarified. In Windows 7 if you bring up the Windows Features control panel by clicking on “Turn Windows Features on or off” (or just typing “Windows features” in the start menu) you will see the following in the Release Candidate (by default the hierarchy is not fully expanded, but in this screen shot I’ve expanded some elements for additional information):


Windows Features control panel


For those familiar with the Vista version or the Beta version of this dialog you will notice the list has grown. Let’s talk about what we’ve added and briefly how it works.



If a feature is deselected, it is not available for use.  This means the files (binaries and data) are not loaded by the operating system (for security-conscious customers) and not available to users on the computer. These same files are staged so that the features can easily be added back to the running OS without additional media. This staging is important feedback we have received from customers who definitely do not like to dig up the installation DVD.


For any of the features listed you can change the state to enable it or disable it. The Vista and Windows 7 beta control panel lists a wide range of features. Some are targeted towards Developers working on a client workstation (IIS, MSMQ, etc.), others are utilities for network administrators and enthusiasts (RSM, SNMP, Telnet, etc.), and some are features customers have asked us to make optional (Games, Fax and Scan, Tablet PC components).


In Windows 7 we are expanding the number of features you have control over in this regard, giving customers more control, flexibility and choice in managing the features available in this version of Windows.  In addition to the features that were already available to turn on or off in Windows Vista, we’ve added the following features to the list in Windows 7:



  • Windows Media Player

  • Windows Media Center

  • Windows DVD Maker

  • Internet Explorer 8

  • Windows Search

  • Handwriting Recognition (through the Tablet PC Components option)

  • Windows Gadget Platform

  • Fax and Scan

  • XPS Viewer and Services (including the Virtual Print Driver)

It is worth describing the details of “remove” since this too is a place where there are engineering and customer decisions to be made. We’ve already seen one decision which is to make sure we keep the features staged for future use so that a DVD is not required. A second decision is that we also continue to support the APIs available for features where these APIs are necessary to the functionality of Windows or where there are APIs that are used by developers that can be viewed as independent of the component. As many of you know these are often referred to as “dependencies” and with Windows the dependencies can run both internal to Windows and external for ISVs.


It should be no surprise, but when we develop new features in Windows we tend to use the underlying infrastructure and associated APIs rather than duplicate code which would create extra working set, slow performance, and increase the surface area that needs to be secured, etc. We all know code reuse is a good engineering practice. As a platform, Windows tends to emphasize the creation of APIs for many systems, even when those subsystems are viewed as part of a larger system. When we have APIs that are used, we faced the choice of breaking software that just expected those APIs to be there or to continue to support the API. When we continued to support the API our approach was to remove a feature by making sure that an end-user could not invoke the feature via traditional end-user mechanisms. These are often difficult decisions as we work to balance the expectations of developers, the shared desire to deliver a robust release of Windows 7, and to maintain the goals set out by the feature “Turn Windows Features On or Off”. Because there are so many combinations of dependencies just represented in this list, selecting some options might provide you with some explanation as to the challenges in selecting a combination (for example Windows Media Player and Windows Media Center share a lot of code so turning one off might introduce a pretty complex situation for the average end-user).


Finally, we know some have suggested that this set of choices be a “setup option”. Some operating systems do provide this type of setup experience. As we balanced feedback, the vast majority of feedback we have received was to streamline setup and to reduce the amount of potential complexity in getting a PC running. We chose to focus this feature on the post-setup experience for Windows 7.


–Jack

Comments (133)

  1. dovella says:

    I do not know if I have to be happy or unhappy

  2. dovella says:

    Now is Happy EU ?

    Opera Team ?

    Firefox Team ?

    even if I do not like the latest version of IE RC. the Internet Explorer icon will never disappear from any of my computers

  3. AndyC says:

    What I’d really like to see is Group Policy management of enabling/disabling these features. That would be so much more convienient than having to script the addition/removal of features on a large network.

  4. Nehemoth says:

    To me this is a bless, maybe cause I like to tweak or even cause I just like to have "an option".

    Well this is the first time since a became a beta tester since windows Me (yes for me worked like a charm) that I fill that Microsoft listened his customer.

    That’s why I firmly believe that Windows 7 will be the best MS OS until the date and that everyone will *or should want to) migrate to Windows 7.

    Thank you Steve.

  5. mdaria510@gmail.com says:

    Its great that I can "turn off" DVD maker on my netbook, but it doesnt really help me squeeze Win7 into the small SSD if it’s still "staged".

    99% of the time, if someone is trying to turn something off, it’s because they didnt want it.  They dont want to keep it around just in case.

    Personally, I’m fine with using a tool like vLite to not install the extras in the first place, I was just hoping we’d get something like that supported.

    We dont want to hide the stuff we dont want.  We dont want to install it in the first place.

  6. wolrah says:

    I agree that there needs to also be a "I never ever ever want this feature, do not even put it on my hard drive" option for all of the truly removable features.  Obviously for the ones with dependencies you have to keep at least parts of them around, but for example anything Tablet PC related is useless to the vast majority of users.  Fax and Scan as well, especially if Fax can be separated (I don’t pretend to know) since again the vast majority of new computers don’t even have a modem installed and never will.

    On the other hand, I’m glad I’ll finally be able to say goodbye to IE once and for all (yes I realize it’ll still be there due to the dependency issue, but having it never launch for any reason is good enough).  You guys had your chance to make a decent browser during the years between IE6 and 7, and once again with 8, but even after all that development time Firefox, Chrome, and Safari still destroy IE.  I can not believe Domenico is serious, why would anyone actually desire IE?  As a part-time web designer, it makes my life a living hell if I want to do anything interesting.

  7. briantist says:

    Just from looking at the list, please can you make it consistent for the poor users.

    When you use an acronym it would be best to always spell it out and put the acronym itself in brackets.

    So that would be:

    File Transfer Protocol (FTP) server

    Services for Network File System (NFS)

    Trivial File Transfer Protocol (TFTP) client

    Also, can you not capitalise words that don’t need them like

    Internet games

    More games

    Web management tools

    and so on.

  8. Mr. Dee says:

    In the past Microsoft has required Internet Explorer for Windows Update to download updates for OS, has this policy changed? Is Internet Explorer really removed or is it just remove its .exe?

  9. What is .NET Framework 3.5.1? It is 3.5 with SP1?

  10. bananaman says:

    @wolrah I would think that the web designers are the key people to *keep* IE installed.  I actually have both IE6 and IE7 on my machine, not because I use them to browse, but because I need to test things in IE.  Ideally proofing something in a standards compliant browser would be sufficient, but you should be checking your output in IE as well since the majority of your users will be using it.

    As for this blog post, it was good to see.  I don’t see staging as a problem if they’ve been able to reduce the footprint further since the beta.  It’s hard to justify even 6 gigs of space to an OS when my last version of Windows only took about 1 gig, and the most "loaded up" Linux distro I’ve ever installed took 2.  Netbooks will continue to get bigger SSDs, making people less weary of this issue over time.  Meanwhile however a 16GB SSD might give only 10GB storage to a Windows user while a Linux netbook might leave 15.  Glad to see the team is considering footprint and impressed by their willingness to tackle the dependency jungle!

  11. mdaria510@gmail.com says:

    But it doesnt seem like they have reduced the footprint.  This whole "staging" thing is like the digital equivalent of sweeping the bits under the rug.  I’m assuming it gets compressed to save some space, but I still dont want those bits on the drive.  Any time I’ve ever used the add/remove programs tool, I cant say I’ve ever actually added anything back.

    Anyway, the real problem is that microsoft software is just completely disrespectful of the fact that you might have limited disk space.

    Lets add up all the waste:

    3.2GB for hiberfil.sys – I have hybrid sleep off, and its set to never hibernate.  Why does this file still exist?

    4.7GB pagefile.sys – This is what happens when you let the system manage the pagefile – I can say with absolute certainly I’ve never needed 4.7gb of swap space, let alone probably even 1GB.

    The infamous Winsxs – of course explorer cant calculate this right, so it’s just say it’s 1GB instead of 6gb.

    Another 1GB in the "installer" folder in the Windows folder – which I understand to be rollbacks for windows updates.  Something I’ve never done, nor ever imagine having to do.

    Theres also the MSOCache – I’ve installed all of Office 2007 that I’ve ever wanted to, but I still apparently need to waste another 528mb in case I ever want to add something, despite the fact the disc is sitting right next to me.  

    All this is irrelevant with a hard drive, but its ridiculous for a SSD.  And this staging thing just rubs me the wrong way.  I dont understand the point of it as it is.  

    How is this really any different in practice than just deleting the shortcut from the start menu?  

  12. PeterFnet says:

    In response to briantist:

    do not spell out TFTP. If someone doesn’t know what it is, they aren’t going to need to use it!

    @MSFTJack

    Very cool to see a TFTP client. I’ll have to see if that’s in build 7000

  13. dovella says:

    @Microsoft

    now we have reached the end of the development and windows 7 has all it takes to be ROCK.

    Micorosoft offers thousands of free services to all ,

    but there is a necessary service that must be offered to the public..

    Yesterday I replaced my motherboard and CPU in my Main PC having Vista RTM

    I had to reinstall

    Vista SP1

    all Update and Fix  (without considering the drivers)

    I spent about 4 hours to finish these operations.

    Microsoft may make available every 6 months a new ISO of Windows including all FIX and download with your Key ? Also pay 3 or 4 euro for the service

    If we consider also the people who often want to reinstall the Vista or Windows 7 on laptops where many manufacturers do not release DVD cleaner of Microsoft OS.

    This is my final feedback, I look forward to the Windows 7 RC.

    Thanks

    -Domenico

  14. cfxm says:

    There is only one version of IE installed, so omit it or add version numbers for all services and programs.

  15. steven_sinofsky says:

    @mdaria510 — I don’t think things are quite as negative as you say.  We’ve talked about disk footprint quite a bit in the blog and the design goals and where the footprint goes.  This earlier post describes our engineering goals and some facts around disk space consumption http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/archive/2008/11/19/disk-space.aspx.  

    Hiberfil won’t exist if you run the diskcleanup wizard and choose to remove it (or use powercfg -hibernate off from an elevated prompt).  The file remains because even with hibernate off, should you be in standby and drop below 10% of battery remaining we will force a hibernate.

    pagefile — we’ve explained the algorithm used to determine the size and we think Windows will do the best job for this.  But as you note you can manually set the size to whatever you would prefer.  While it is possible to run without a pagefile, we do not recommend that.  Here is Mark’s blog on the topic http://blogs.technet.com/markrussinovich/archive/2008/11/17/3155406.aspx.

    Winsxs — we’ve talked about this as well.  It is less than half of what you are saying.

    Regarding staging and uninstall, we receive quite a lot of feedback about having these around because the ability to rollback or to find features of Windows that you might not have wanted is very important relative to the disk space or requiring a DVD.  We carefully balanced this against low footprint installations and that is why you’ll see Windows 7 take significantly less space on install than Windows Vista.

  16. Andre says:

    "We dont want to hide the stuff we dont want.  We dont want to install it in the first place."

    Couldn’t agree more. I do not want any of these features installed on my HD. Apps can use the default web browser for displaying pages, so there is no reason to keep even IE8.

    I’ll *never* use DVD Maker or MediaCenter, so I don’t want this bits on my HD.

    And the talking about dependencies and APIs just shows how poor designed Windows is, there is always E_NOINTERFACE.

    Tried the Win7 Beta1 yesterday, the new "Explorer" is the biggest piece of crap I’ve seen in my life!

  17. dovella says:

    @Andre

    New Explorer?

    You Joke?

  18. wolferey says:

    This is definitly a step in the right direction.. The more options I have to customize my installation, the better.. too bad you do this post-setup thought, I’d really like to setup this as I install, and be done with it afterwards instead of having to tweak it post-setup.

  19. Andre says:

    @Domenico: By "new" I meant the one that came with XP compared with the one that comes with Win7. I know that most changes already came with Vista.

    @steven_sinofsky: Please put the whole Shell to the list so that I can turn it off, I’d rather use my DOS 5.0 command prompt.

    And when we are talking about dependencies, why can’t I run my XP explorer.exe on Vista? Because User32 the Shell and IE is a complete mess?

  20. PsironTech says:

    How about an install options screen ala Office?

    Run from computer, Run from DVD (Install upon first use), Not Installed.

    Allow us to select, immediately after HD selection, whether we want "Express" or "Custom" installation.  Express would install as it does not, Custom would give us the dialog above with the Office "use it, maybe, or leave it" options.

    Seems like something that would pretty simple to implement, not confuse the majority of users, and would cover a great many of the gripes us "control freaks" have with the install process.

    Please give it some serious thought.  This is one of the easiest, BEST things you could do between Beta/RC to get some seriously "yummy" PR with no impact on performance or usability.

  21. dovella says:

    personally i think the new Explorer is unique and sensational.

    there is no other OS something more comfortable and complete.

    then everything is reduced to matters of habit and taste

    the Crap  term whether to keep him because you can not speak for all

  22. mdaria510@gmail.com says:

    @Steven

    Disk cleanup does deal with some of the mess, but not all of it.

    We get the option to hide it, but not to really remove it. Why can’t we have the same flexibilty to choose whether or not we need the disc?  Anyone going this deep into configuration in the first place is almost certainly prepared to make that decision.

    I could have sworn that removing these things like the office disk cache used to be part of disk cleanup, but no longer are.

    My issue here is the inconsistency.  You can configure some things, others are just decided for you based on the user feedback of someone else. And focus certainly should be placed on the most likely scenario, typical user perspective. But options should exist for the rest of us. That’s how you really please everyone. Start with a good default, but let us change it.

    So this is a step in the right direction, but it’s a half step, and I still just don’t really get how this is truely different (for applications like wmp and ie) than just deleting the shortcuts and compressing the files.  Remove should mean remove, not hide.  

  23. piaqt says:

    Who do I have to kill to update beta1 to rc1?

  24. dovella says:

    @piaqt

    Were is RC1 ? Your dream?

    you talk about 7048 torrent?

    7048 for you is RC1 ?

  25. manicmarc says:

    I assume this just removes the UI EXE file, not the underlying DLLs. As you say with dependencies it’s hard to know what exactly needs to be removed.

    For example a lot of developers assume IE is installed. I have written a podcasting aggregator that uses Internet Explorer’s MSHTML rendering engine to display the HTML descriptions included inside RSS feeds. In the past I’ve used the Media Player Active X control. Does this mean we will need to check that IE is installed, and will there be a way to call up a screen that installs it for the user, much like Office can install items as they are required?

    Going forward I really think Windows needs to move to a repository based system. One of the things that makes Linux usable these days is the fact that you can easily install stuff, and the package manager works out what dependencies are needed. Some sort of Windows Application Store would be great. I’m sure the EU would moan about it however, but if it was optional and Microsoft didn’t change a lot to be listed in it then I think it would be great.

  26. martin_mine@hotmail.com says:

    Great that you added more programs in this function, I have really been missing it! ^^,

    But can’t you guys redo the functions UI? It’s kinda getting old (hasn’t been chacnging for many years). It would also be good if you could improove the time it takes to activate/deactivate the functions =)

    Have a nice weekend! ^^

    Martin

    @mdaria510:

    I totally agree with you!

  27. piaqt says:

    @domenico: Yes, I meant 7048, if that’s the latest build. Is there any way to install it as an update, rather than the long upGRADE install?

  28. mog0 says:

    I agree with many others on this blog that it would be good if it were possible to reclaim the disk space used by some of the features that are disabled.

    I have a relatively small disk (80GB) and many times I have found myself needing even a few hundred MB more disk space. If it were possible to make a trade off between having to reinstall features using the DVD and freeing a little more disk space versus easy reinstallation then many times the extra disk space would win.

  29. Tihiy says:

    I wish there was a supported way to completely remove/uninstall those features from offline image. It’s not so hard, right? Home versions are occupying more than Pro?

    And yeah: thousands of megabytes of fonts! And no way to remove them. They could be nice if i got sum Japanese friend, but now i like my national 1/500 part of Unicode.

    Still, situation is quite improved in Win7!

    If vLite author returns to development, it’ll be even better! =)

  30. dovella says:

    @piaqt

    the 7048 can not be the RC

  31. Jack_Mayo says:

    Some folks have asked about other places to manage the settings in this list.  For enterprises, our group policy and setup and imaging tools, make these choices just as straight forward as other choices in creating your image.  Group policy permits control of this user interface and the setup and imaging tools allow the creation and imaging of Windows however you prefer.  

    Many have asked about developers that rely on MSHTML and the browser control in IE, codecs and media APIs in media player, and other APIs such as winsock and networking elements of the system and how those relate to this feature.  As we said, maintaining the APIs both from a compatibility perspective and from a desire to continue to offer APIs at many levels of the OS, not just the user interface level, is a core tenet of Windows and so these will continue to remain even if you check the remove option.  This applies to components that have such APIs, as we described in the post.

  32. marcinw says:

    @Steven,

    Windows 7 in various places is example of very good engineer job, but numbers are numbers, facts are facts and they show, that in some areas there are MANY places for improvements.

    Creating posts with explanations will not resolve some things/issues and will not make some things less controversial.

    I was writing a lot about separating applications/decentralizing Registry and similar things. You should really think about it for Windows 8 – currently system seems to have mix of everything with everything. Looking into build 7000 (system with antivirus, FireFox, Flash Player):

    winsxs – with sandboxing each application can have own copy of DLL in own real directory and it would be not required…

    windows directory – if we have windowslog directory, what does windowsupdate.log make inside windows directory ? why not move twain into system32 ? (and why not allow user to resign from it)

    windowsweb – IE missed files

    windowsoffline web pages – why it isn’t inside user files directory ?

    system32 – too many files: files from MS-DOS could be moved to separate directory, national files could be moved to separate directory

    windowsen-us – if there is subdirectories with national files inside system32, what does this one make here ? and if there are so many national files for all national languages in many directories, isn’t possible to move not used into some cab and unpack them, if necessary ?

    system32macromedflash – uninstalls for Flash Player. in my opinion system shouldn’t allow to put uninstallers here (and please don’t blame "wrong" developers)

    system32setup – once again national files, en-us directory inside empty

    windowsprefetch – are you deleting files from it, when exe/com file is removed ?

    windowsmodemlogs – sic, created even without modem in system

    windowsaddins – one file connected with fax…

    windowsassemblytemp and tmp directories – what for, if we have windowstemp ?

    windowssystem32tasks – we have windowstasks

    etc. etc. Of course it’s possible to say, that it’s because of compatibility, but…system could be much smaller and faster, when it will be cleaned (but really cleaned). Add some proposed things and you will get much bigger security…

    Shortly: it can be much better…

  33. marcinw says:

    @Jack_Mayo,

    if user want to remove something from his own HDD, he should have such ability – this is his HDD. If you’re afraid of removing some APIs (which could be used by other user apps), you can always make this way:

    in Windows features (almost) each option will have two states: uinstalled, available after first use, installed. Something like in the Office, nobody will blame you, people will only like more you.

    For example: user doesn’t want help engine ? This is his choice.

  34. marcinw says:

    I wanted to write three states of course 😉

  35. marcinw says:

    I wanted to write "one of three states" of course 😉

  36. mdaria510@gmail.com says:

    I just want to be clear on a few things.  

    I dont mean to sound as if I think these changes are useless.  Allowing us to lower the memory footprint by disabling features that are not needed is certainly a huge step in the right direction, and should be applauded.  I hope this functionality is even further extended from where it is now.

    I’ve always been against the common enthusiast practice of disabling services to lower the memory footprint, as it tends to inevitably break something that a program expects to find.  Allowing us to do this through an approved tool where the APIs are left intact is the right way to go about this, and when it’s flexible to the point that will satisfy most enthusiasts (as I believe it most is at present), they’ll be less likely to "break" the previously inflexible system.  

    I also think the decision to "stage" the files is a good idea, and should be the default.  My only gripe is that its not optional.  Even if 16GB is the minimum, which is a reasonable amount, every bit counts on a small SSD.

    Even if it isnt a matter of cramming into a small place, or performance issues, I believe a lot of users just want this kind of thing under their control.  A clean PC is like a clean house.  It just feels….right.      

    On some more specific requests for items that should be removable from this UI:

    The sample media files that are installed by default.

    Lesser used fonts.  I dont speak or read arabic, japanese or chinese, and don’t plan on doing so any time soon.

    Backup and restore center, defender, firewall, defrag, etc as many of us have our own maintenance and security suites.  

    Ease of access tools – fortunately, most of us are not disabled.

    Applets such as wordpad and paint, and well…just about every applet.  

    I think you’re dead on with your approach of starting large and paring down from there.  It’s very important not to make it difficult from the start for everyone.  

    I still hold to belief that for the majority of users for which any of this discussion is even relevant, that theyre most likely up to the task of making these decisions for themselves, and that they should be limited to the least possible degree.  

    As long as the defaults are sane and the configuration is relatively hidden from the less experienced users, then you dont need to agonize over balancing feedback from various groups with various needs.  The right solution would remind me of the two tiers of control panel access – simplified on top, but you havent taken away the "real" CP applets underneath.  

  37. mattflaschen says:

    "We all know code reuse is a good engineering practice. As a platform, Windows tends to emphasize the creation of APIs for many systems, even when those subsystems are viewed as part of a larger system."

    A reasonable solution is to break off the parts that are used externally into independent libraries.  Just as Konqueror made KTHML and KJS separate libraries, Internet Explorer can break off Trident into a independent library.

  38. Hairs says:

    Anyone prepared to "switch off" windows features is probably doing so in the knowledge that they won’t use them.

    As he states, I see no benefit to me to "switch off" a feature I never wanted in the first place if it’s still sitting there hogging disk space on the off chance I’ll change my mind.

    nLite/vLite, you are a wonderful wonderful tool.

  39. mvadu says:

    People asking for removing the stuff which has been turned off have not developed any software (or people are developing only web enabled stuff now a days). As Jack mentioned windows API’s dlls are used by numerous softwares, tools. There might be lot of softwares out there which instead of writing there own HTML rendering engine, used web browser control to render html pages in there software. Similarly there might be 100’s of softwares tools which create web browser object internally which maps to IE objects irrespective of your "default web browser". They use it because IE supports automation to a level which firefox or other can only dream. IE is not just a browser for the end user, but rather it is a collection of UI controls, APIs which can enable any software (i mean desktop applications, not web based ones)to be able to communicate with web.

    So if might not want IE for the day to day browsing but all fire fox users out there you guys are still using IE one way or the other.

  40. dovella says:

    I hope only that this great effort of Microsoft does not increase Bloatware from manufacturers OEM.

    See for Example Google toolbar in DELL Notebook replaced by Windows Sidebar .

    I know the bloatware also serves to lower the cost of a PC , But OEM manufacturers have already ruined the image of VISTA with this method intrusive

  41. marcinw says:

    @mvadu,

    "Install after first use" is resolving this issue – if application is searching for mshtml.dll (or other parts), display for user info, whether he want or not installing IE rendering engine.

    This is very simple, works quite good with Office and info about broken apps is a little excuse for me (of course CHM files and some other are using IE engine, but there are users, who haven’t opened any of them since long time…)

  42. dovella says:

    Hey Windows 7 Magnifer is AMAZING with 6 Monitor 🙂

    http://tinyurl.com/cu6rnw

    http://tinyurl.com/bkr3mf

  43. marcinw says:

    BTW, about disabling features in 7000:

    1. set UAC to highest level

    2. set "Application Information" service to Disabled

    3. restart system

    You can’t do any UAC action, can’t install software, etc. etc.

  44. locolorenzo says:

    Oh drats I had hope that this wouldn’t happen…Now the OEM’s are going to screw up the best OS that I have ever used.

        1. Shades of Real Player

        2. I gots the Opera Blues…

        3. Da Skype just connected me to Ek-Bay!

    Come On what I really want is Internet Exporer for Unix!

    Firefox really doesn’t do it for me.

  45. Hairs says:

    Essentially, your argument in this case is:

    "Some developers can’t be bothered to write their own code so they re-use inappropriate code from Windows that doesn’t need to be there to save time."

    This isn’t an argument that wins a lot of support from me.

    It’s certainly strange that before IE, developers were perfectly capable of writing high quality, robust code to display different types of content, or interface with the internet, without the need for automated hand holding, or the install of bloated apps like WMP for DLL support. I have yet to use a desktop app that uses IE processes that left me thinking "Hmm, there’s clearly no other way they could have designed that", or "Oh what a high quality, speedy, well developed app." I’m not having a go at Microsoft here, but I have never in my many decades with computers seen any benefit to the end user from lowering the intellectual cost of entry to new developers who aren’t prepared to put some effort into their code, or are desperate for the "good for me, screw the End User" shortcut which things like this promote.

    IE is one of the major infection vectors out there and there is really no reason for a developer to use it in a desktop app when the OS has more than enough ways of helping you display and organise content already. Even assuming there WAS a need to use the code, there’s no reason why ALL end users should have to bend over and tailor their systems to suit a developer that needs a specific bit of code for a specific app that the user might not ever want, need, or find a viable alternative for. It’s another example of Microsoft designing something that suits developers and OEMs, not the end user.

    And the final nail in the coffin is this:

    Microsoft is already forced to sell versions of Windows that have IE and WMP removed. So the argument that they are "required" for compatibility purposes is void.

  46. marcinw says:

    @Domenico,

    As long as win32 architecture won’t be improved (system should care about full uninstalling applications, not 3rd party developers), there is possibility, that OEM manufacturers will ruin image of EACH new Windows version. "Designed for Windows 7" will not change anything here.

    @Hairs,

    If I remember correctly, N versions also had WMP and IE only partially removed.

    In my opinion not compatibility/developer problems make, that they’re still in the system, but rather "political" reasons.

  47. Jalf says:

    What, so it’s not possible to *remove* Spider Solitaire? Not at install-time, and not afterwards. And this is what you call what was it, "The theme of “choice and control”"?

    The theme of choice and control that "Microsoft will throw as much as at all possible into one monolithic folder (windows), and if by some strange quirk of fate a MS application does qualify to be placed there, it definitely must be placed on the same partition. Because that’s how we give users the "choice and control" to actually use the disk space they have. Everything must be on C:, no matter how big it is, or how many other partitions you have. Even the most pointless optional Windows feature like Spider Solitaire must be there. Along with all the installers I’ll never use again, but which grows my windows folder by several gigabytes.

    Oh please.

    Along with my pet peeve that some nonessential files in program files are apparently magically untouchable, even though you can move them to another location where Windows will never see them, they’re still "special".

    The only theme of choice and control is that it’s a downhill slope. I actually liked using Win7 a month ago. Now I’m pretty convinced I’ll go back to XP when the beta version expires.

    You’ve made some huge improvements to the presentation. Win7 actually looks and feel nice, unlike Vista. But it’s still a pain to use because of the completely insane design decisions inherited from Vista and the ones added since.

    And no, this rant wasn’t just triggered by this blog post. It helps that just today I tried to install a game, but it failed because:

    – Installers still can’t understand junction points, and mispredict the amount of free space I have.

    – My Windows partition has grown by 3GB since last I checked, because of all the junk that accumulates in it because of your policy that "there’s a theoretical chance that at some point in the future, I may need it, so we’d better put it smack in the windows folder".

    A few days before this I attempted to install Win7 on a second computer where I ran into the aforementioned problem that all the files Windows puts in program files is magical. I could rename the program files folder without a problem. And then create a new program files with the contents I wanted (or make a junction point in the original program files location pointing to a different partition. I just can’t *delete* the original program files. This doesn’t contribute to security (I can replace the files just fine), but Windows *chose* to control it anyway. Because some MS engineer at some point in the development of Vista or 7, decided arbitrarily that it’d be a good idea.

    As long as the theme is "Microsoft chooses to control" my computer I’m not impressed. There are aspects it makes sense for Windows to control (enforcing security permissions, for example), but the completely arbitrary areas where you *choose* to control my entire system are just ridiculous.

  48. dovella says:

    I do not know why I remember Jim Carrey in Bruce Almighty .

  49. georgy2089 says:

    Yeah i read lots of the above comment , saying that we are happy to see new feature of windows 7 OS. Thats really good thing of it.

    Windows 7 is easy to use.

  50. d_e says:

    I think it’s a great decision to have the files around on the disk for uninstalled features. And (IMHO) the right features are installed by default.

    While I agree that Win7 shouldn’t need 10 GB in theory – In practice I couldn’t care less.

    You did the right thing!

  51. matthewgmooney@gmail.com says:

    frankly, i don’t really see how this is any different than the old "Add/Remove Windows Components" from XP.  you aren’t REALLY removing anything, just simply turning it off.  On top of that you are STILL hogging up the disk space from those programs by "staging" it.

    Sorry, not an improvement.  Nice try though.

    Frankly, what I would like to see is what the other users have said.  THREE choices.  Use, Deactivate (IE: remove and stage) and Uninstall (IE: completely remove all configs and binaries).  No reason to MAKE people keep the staging data.  Otherwise people will simply figure out where the staging data is and MANUALLY delete it.  Why make them go through that?

    Also, including some of the more controversial UI features in this dialog would be nice as well.  Perhaps in a separate subsection (Windows UI).  This would include Aero, the Quick Launch bar, the Menu bars for IE and Explorer, the Classic menu, and various other features that people may or may not want.

    IF the theme REALLY IS "control and customization"  you have to let people change it to the way they want.  That includes "Legacy" styles and settings as well.  Some people just don’t LIKE Microsoft’s concept of the the "future UI" and like the old style.  Microsoft needs to respect these people and give them the option to revert to the old style.

  52. manicmarc says:

    Hairs  – the strength of Windows (and the reason it became so popular) is because it is easy to develop for.

    Take a look at this: http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/DisplayWebContent/Concepts/WhyWebKit.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/20002023-CJBEJBHH

    You’ll see Apple also provide "lazy" developers with a way to use Safari in their applications.

    Can you imagine if every program had to reimplement the wheel? More security bugs, more disk footprint, less programs (because they’d take longer and cost more), all so 1 in 100 users can save a few megabytes of space.

    Marc

  53. toonnyc says:

    Thank you for letting us turn off IE, at least a little bit.  I still think someone deserves to go to jail for forcing that security hazard on us, but now I can make sure no one I know accidently runs it.

  54. marcinw says:

    @manicmarc,

    1. if somebody want to have uninstalled something, this is his choice.

    2. IT IS possible to implement "install after first use" feature

    3. interesting, that you’re speaking about security bugs. How many of them were found in IE engine for example ?

    Whatever we will write and say, there are two possibilities (that we can’t uninstall something):

    1. "political" reasons

    2. MS doesn’t have good enough programmers

    I will opt for first one.

  55. Mantvydas says:

    I would really want to see one checkmark somewhere: keep Windows DVD files for future use (for easy adding/removing features, languages, etc.), or not to keep Windows DVD files for future use. And default should be: keep.

  56. Hairs says:

    Your post doesn’t refute my point at all – it re-inforces it – that this whole issue is about Microsoft *forcing* unecessary, bloated apps on end users *to suit some developers*. Pointing out that Apple are using the same model doesn’t refute the argument either – only that bad practice is spreading. I should never have to justify to either MS or some 3rd party Dev whose apps I don’t even use *why* I want to remove some inconsequential add on to the OS, or why I want to make that change. I own the computer, not them. If they won’t give me what I need from the platform, I’ll go elsewhere, or use some other company’s software.

    Complaining that "developers will have to do more work", as I already pointed out, falls on deaf ears with me. Devs are there to make an app that they then need to convince *me* to use. A good dev won’t shirk the hard work to do something right. A bad dev will give up – and good riddance to him!

    EG: why would anyone use Azureus/Vuze with its massive codebase (on top of the massive Java install) when they could use uTorrent instead.

    350kilobytes vs. ~150 Megs, and they both do the same job. One was coded by one man in a few days, the other has a massive team of devs all over the world who still can’t write quality code over the course of several years.

    The "few hundreds megabytes" argument is also counter-productive to your cause – as the posts regarding PerfTrack and boot times pointed out, making a large number of small improvements all add up to big gains in speed, footprint, and code quality. In the general scheme of things, 100 megs is peanuts on a 1TB drive. But 100 megs of unnecessary code that potentially introduces more bugs, holes, dependencies and legacy hassles into an OS is NEVER a good thing.

    Windows is ubiquitous because it has the power of a huge install base. At this point in its development, it needs to maintain *quality* to the end user so they don’t migrate. Screwing over the User to suit a developer who’s still relying on the IE6 engine to display content in a desktop app helps *nobody* in the windows ecosystem.

  57. PsironTech says:

    A lot of people are talking about dependencies. and how removing programs as opposed to staging them would break these.

    A lot of people have apparently all but forgotten Microsoft’s efforts to *increase* the modularity of their OS (Server Core, anyone?)

    All we ask is that by Win8, we get to the point that this is possible.  That Windows be modular enough to include or not include the built-in functionality.  No staging necessary.

  58. tryon says:

    I think there really is 2 scenario to consider here:

    1- netbook and notebook, around 8-16gb ssd.

    I personally have a 16gb partition to run win7 and it became quite full just by installing office 2007 and a few very small apps (FF, live mesh, etc.). I definatly would like to be able to remove all these setup files completly on my 16gb partition. Consider the new buyers of netbook … many come with these SSD and I almost bought one and then remembered "I won’t be able to install w7 and have the experience I want on it", it’s sad that 8gb is not enough to install an OS in 2009 an even 16gb is barely enough.

    2 – desktop pc, comes with 250gb or higher HD, not a problem at all, keeping every setup files by default would be great. Allowing them to be deleted through the cleanup utility like in XP is also a good idea.

    If you do not want a custom choice on the basic DVD installation, support unattended version of your installation disk so we can slipstream/remove what we want/dont want with our own DIY disk.

    The idea of putting a new .ISO up every few months on microsoft website for people with a legit key would be great cause all the hotfix adds an extra ~1 hour of work everytime we do a fresh install. I can confirm that it is a pain in the … to do every update every time (even though with w7 and the windows update during feature during the installation it might be less helpfull, we’ll have to see with w7 sp3 and all hotfixes like there are for XP ;))

  59. yllusion says:

    First of all, I think all Windows features/services should be changeable during the OS installation. It doesn’t make sense in having to install a bunch of things that are going to be disabled right afterward. And disabling them is different of removing them. Removing should be always an option.

    If the user doesn’t want certain programs/features to be installed, even if they’re not running, he should be able to do that, easily. If the user only wants to run Windows’ basic function, he should be able to do that. He should be able to install a naked Windows if he wanted to do so.

    That’s the problem, Windows is far from customizable. It’s far from transparent. It should be somewhat like MS Office. You can either install everything of almost nothing.

    I hate Internet Explorer 7 and I probably won’t like Internet Explorer 8 either, since it maintains the same awful user interface. But here with Windows XP I can’t uninstall IE7 because the damn Windows Update requires IE7. This kind of things should never happen. If I prefer my good Firefox 3, then Windows should recognize it as the system’s default browser and let everything work with it, even Windows Update, even Visual Studio, everything.

    It’s because of all this and a lot of other things that I’ll jump to Linux sooner or later.

    About the Windows user interface, why don’t you stop running around the problem and face it once and for all? User interface is never going to satisfy everybody. There should always be different options for UIs and different ways for displaying things, reaching things and doing things. Windows should work like Winamp. There should be an Interface Engine/API that could run different "skins" and themes, where even the position, location and dimension of objects could be changed. Develop that concept and we’ll never have problems with interface anymore. I would be able to use the same theme for all subsequent versions of windows. Make full use of today’s graphic effects, light and 3d effects but don’t waste resources and make everything optional. With today’s technology, we should be seeing User Interfaces much similar to those seen in games. But, if the user still prefers the bare classic windows theme, it should be there (maybe a little bit more pleasant to the eye, with round corners, smooth edges and a subtle shade, but still simple and light).

  60. yllusion says:

    … It has nothing to do with this post but, since it’s the first time I’m using a MSDN blog, I have to say this: why doesn’t it work already with our Live accounts, like everything else? It doesn’t make sense… I had to create another account only to post a reply. What a shame.

  61. mvadu says:

    Hairs,

    don’t you think you are claiming code re-use is a lazy thing? so basically if every one follow your thought process, we will never have any shared libraries. Every one will code 100% of the functionality of their softwares from scratch. Don’t you think that kind of scenario would have been worst nightmare for all users? e.g. how about each software dealing with any type of files showing you a different file open dialog, instead of Standard Windows file dialog (I know File Open dialog is from core component comdlg32 which is not part of the scope of this blog post). Similarly each program writing there own HTML rendering would have messed up every thing, (just ask any web developer who have to test/tweak their code to work similar on handful of major browsers) with each showing the content in different ways.

    You are basically asking/questioning the way how software development works in today. Nobody has time or money to reinvent the wheels every single day. You are asking down the street bike builder to cast each part of the bike he is building from scratch. that is not how it works, he goes out, buy a motor, two wheels, design his won body and assemble and sell. hope this analogy will help you understand.

  62. davidtan says:

    That sounds like a change from Microsoft. I somehow agree that unneeded features shouldn’t be installed at the first place, but also realize the dependencies challenges. Would be interesting to see how users react to this in the future.

  63. cigraphics says:

    It’s not fair that EU says to remove IE, Windows Media Player and others because Mac’s came’s with Safari and other tools why doesn’t EU sues Apple ?

  64. cigraphics says:

    This feature remids me of Windows 98/95 :))

    And good job with Win7 i’ve been impressed on how great it works

  65. texxs says:

    I once saw a sign in the dressing room for the servers at a restaurant.  It said the way to provide the best customer service in the world was to "Just be kind."

    Why can’t MS do that instead of all this BS?

    "It’s not unfair that EU says to unbundle Windows"

    When you do things like refusing to sell windows to OEM’s if they install other browsers, pretends you can’t remove WMP and IE, buys other browsers and software and OS’s just to shut them down and eliminate competition etc. etc,. etc… there are prices to pay.  MS is lucky Bush is evil and stopped the US lawsuit against them.

    Of course Bush isn’t in office any more is he?  Maybe it’ll come back.

    mvadu (and others):  instead, if you were kind, you was make HTML rendering part of the OS and the browser a separate program that used that, duh, not the MS way of the other way around.  They went through a lot of extra work to make it so that it could be called part of the operating system.  and they did it on purpose.

    I’ve had enough, just being on this blog makes me feel dirty.

  66. Rob Scott says:

    Sometimes it feels like Microsoft is pushing some of us out of the platform. Not having the ability to not install or delete things like IE is a shame. I am 100% sure that I will never use IE, WMP, the useless games that come with Windows and many other things that I hate about Windows.

    I DO NOT WANT IE or WMP or the useless paint applet in my computer, I do no want them to hog even 1 byte of space. There are better programs than what you at Microsoft provide, it is not 1995, wake up. FF is a far better browser than IE, even Safari kicks IE to the touchline; I prefer iTunes to WMP by a wide margin. I do not like any of your games. I never and will never use the Paint App and other useless things like that. All which I do not want, I want to be able to not install or be able to permanently delete.

    Why not provide the rendering engine to developers while giving us a choice to permanently delete IE?

    I do no buy these excuses from Microsoft anymore!!!

    While I will buy a new system soon and it will be Windows (Vista or W7), because I need to run a Point of Sale system and it happens to be Windows only, for personal use I am considering OSX or Ubuntu. I am tired of Microsoft’s childish games and excuses!

    I cannot wait for computer software to go fully online and be centralized like it has been done by Apple for the iPhone (and hopefully developers respond and create great Apps for other platforms/OSes), because if that happens I will have fewer and fewer reasons on why I must continue using Windows.

    Time is running out, daft decisions like this do not help.

  67. Rob Scott says:

    Such is Microsoft’s power: I am forced to use IE6 at work and other sorry Apps from Microsoft.

    I guess with that kind of power, why bother giving customers TRUE control of their systems.

    This blog I visit it most of the time using IE6, and I am sure Microsoft is happy about that, but I am not! So much for 90% market share the boss always talks about…

    Do you people ever consider the possibility that most of the 90% you keep qouting is not happy with your work and what your are producing and in some funny way you still "force us" to use it through huge coporations we work for?

    Rob Scott – South Africa

  68. Hairs says:

    You’re still avoiding the core of my argument:

    The "Open file" dialog box is valid code re-use. It’s a core part of the OS. It’s part of the functionality of an Operating System.

    WMP is not.

    IE is not.

    .NEt is not.

    Solitaire is not.

    Etc etc etc.

    These are all apps, or dll systems which have either valid competitors (far superior competitors in the case of IE and WMP), or have valid alternative codebases *within windows* which will provide the same functionality. You are constantly going on about the "need" to have a HTML rendering engine in Windows. Firstly, this is utter nonsense as Windows has more than enough *core* functionality to display all sorts of content, if the developer is prepared to use it. Secondly, *if* there was a need for a desktop app to display HTML, there is *no* reason to assume that it has to be displayed in IE. The app could simply generate the content and then look for a browser to display it. The only reason to *need* IE is if the dev is using non-standard compliant code, in which case he deserves not to be supported for not adhering to W3 standards. The only reason Web page authors "need" to run multiple browser tests is because so many authors don’t bother to write compliant code, and companies like MS and Apple do their best to encourage this behaviour in order to lock everyone into a certain platform (IE or iTunes). Neither the developer or the Platform maker deserves my support, my money, or my time in these cases.

    As has been pointed out, Windows supports millions of developers. So the following scenario is what we have:

    Say there is a market for an application.

    1000 developers work on projects to fill that market.

    85% of those developers are lazy script junkies who don’t write quality code, don’t put in the effort, and rely on Microsoft’s massive "default install" of various functionalities to get the job done, slap their own frontend on it (probably using HTML rendering in IE), and call it saleable.

       — These people do not deserve our money or

          patronage, and they won’t get it.

    10% of developers will put in some effort and create some functionality over and above the default MS install, but will still assume that the "legacy" code will still be there.

      — These people may be putting in some effort but

         again, I have a choice of 1000 projects. Why

         should I go for "run of the mill"?

    4.5% of developers will think about what needs to be done, work out the cleanest and most efficient method of doing it, and will take the time to make checks that the code they need is actually installed, and offer to install it if needed.

      — These people deserve the money or patronage

         they ask for, but:

    0.5% of developers will be like the guy that coded uTorrent, and write a clean, quick, quality, small, application with no needless dependencies, no "additional" code, concentrated on what the USER needs — and will get MY patronage and 90% of the market, once word gets out, because they wrote a high quality app that did exactly what it needs to do, in the minimum space, and respects the user.

    According to you, EVERY user of the OS should have their time, resources, and effort wasted, just so that the 95% of developers who can’t be bothered writing quality code can continue to try and shove substandard, lazy products on us. My attitude is this:

    Why should I have *MY* time wasted in order to save *YOUR* development time?

    I see no reasons why users should have to justify why they want to save disk space. It’s none of MS or the development community’s business what I am using my HD for, or what I want to install on it. It’s mine, not theirs. If they want to claim more of my computing resources, they can come and ask me for them. Maybe I’ll hand them over, maybe I won’t. But the decision should be mine, and since there are thousands of developers, I’ll pick the one that suits me, thank you very much.

  69. hitman721 says:

    Wow. All I can say is wow.

    It is just an OS. Important yes. However, some of the comments here border on completely ungreatfulness and ignorance. I just can’t stand some of the folks coming in here with such hatred. Microsoft isn’t a saint, but every company with an OS does what it has to do.

    If you don’t like Windows, its okay. Use something else. However, don’t come in here with false outrage and BS, to demonize Microsoft. If they didn’t do it, I’m sure Apple, IBM, Cannonical, or someone else would have.

    This has been a great beta and a great rebuilding of an OS. But if you’re so mad at Microsoft that you "feel dirty" being on this blog? Get a life! Use something else.

    Windows 7 is a nice departure from a lot of the hangups of previous Windows versions. Its not what everyone wants, but no OS is perfect. Windows has always been a great compromise from the tight rigid control of Apple to the everyone can get the blueprints vulnerability of the Linux OSes.

    However, the problem with both Linux and Apple is that they are both less secure than Windows. Don’t believe me?

    http://www-935.ibm.com/services/us/iss/xforce/trendreports/

    http://blogs.technet.com/security/attachment/3140955.ashx

    http://blogs.technet.com/security/archive/2008/05/15/q1-2008-client-os-vulnerability-scorecard.aspx

    At least Microsoft doesn’t leave you vulnerable on average for 72 days like Ubuntu. Apple leaves you vulnerable on average for 97.95 days. Red Hat Enterprise left you vulnerable for an average of 105 days.

    Microsoft’s average days of risk? 24.2 days.

    The source of all this information? IBM, Security Researcher Secunia, Apple Support Website, Ubuntu’s Security Notice’s website, and many others. Also, the National Vulnerability Database(NVD) run by the U.S Computer Emergency Response Team(CERT) and the National Institute of Standard’s and Technology(NiST).

    All the NVD information is based on 1st quarter 2008 vulnerability information. The information at the IBM website is based upon 1st half of 2008.

    Who are the top 2 most vulnerable OSes for the past 3 years?

    Apple OS-X and the Linux Kernel of every Linux variant on the web. The facts are the facts, ladies and gentlemen.

    If you really think Windows is so bad, then switch to something else. Just quit the false outrage. Its sad and pathetic. You aren’t going to change anyone’s mind if they like it. Its not like IBM has any love for Apple, Microsoft, or any other player. Its report was fair and accurate to every other I’ve read concerning security.

    Windows 7 will be even more secure. Do you really want to gamble with your machine? You put your hard earned cash into your machine.

    I’m greatful for what Sinofsky and his team has done with Windows 7. Its not perfect, but you don’t always get what you want. Hopefully, some changes will make it to the next version of Windows. However, Windows has always been about getting everyone involved. Computing shouldn’t be a domain of the rich and well off or just the technically gifted. Everyone can be apart of Windows.

    Steven and the Windows 7 team, don’t listen to these hater’s. Useful criticism is fine but some of this is worthless. You guys are doing a great job. I for one will be glad to buy my next copy of Windows when its done. Thanks so much!

  70. cigraphics says:

    @Domenico YOU ARE RIGHT !!!

    Why would i pay 1200 – 3000 $ for a mac ?

    When i can make a great pc with less than 1000$ and maybe it is better than a 1500$ mac

  71. steven_sinofsky says:

    Hey there folks,  let’s work to improve the dialog and conversation.  I know we deal with many topics that have strong feelings about design choices associated with them, but we should all be sure to express views in a constructive and factual manner, and to be contributing to a mutually respectful dialog.

    –Steven

  72. dovella says:

    @cigraphics

    Perhaps with that money is included wig, lipstick, nail polish

    😉

  73. marcinw says:

    I’m looking into this blog entry and wanted to add some things:

    Some people will naturally defend Microsoft, some not. But the truth is, that main task of operating system (in more classic meaning) is providing environment (functions for managing filesystem, memory, devices, etc.) for running some processes. Nothing more. Current operating systems are providing services on higher level too – file explorers, HTML browsers & libraries, codecs, etc.

    Microsoft mixed it a lot – in system directory you have everything and this is very wrong for example from security point of view. Additionally Seven is not saving HDD space – it’s putting files in various languages (not compressed), etc. etc. (see my post above). This is very wrong.

    With Seven:

    1. please note, that leaving some libraries in system directory look a little strange for me. My questions: how will be detected, that application X is requiring for example IE6 or IE7 ? Or will installing new IE will (potentially) break compatibility with applications using IE engine ? If yes, what is sense of leaving it on the HDD ?

    2. wasn’t it possible to make modular system similar to Server editions ? it would close similar "discussions"

    Windows 8 should be a little different. There should be clean rules defined and internal MS developers should respect them – one directory for logs, one directory for drivers, etc. etc.

    So, how to resolve problem of compatibility then ?

    For example (I was writing a little earlier about it, I will repeat some part of it):

    1. You’re trying to run some exe file

    2. Windows is detecting it (using SHA or other checksum)

    3. WIndows is asking for application name (or this step is not necessary – system will create some ID instead of it)

    4. Windows is creating "Program FIlesApplication Name" directory with Windows and "Program FIles" and "Application Data" inside (when run application will want to read content of Windows, will receive content or real directories + files from these one, when will want to add something, will add to these "virtual" directories; when run application will want to read content of Program Files, Application Data, will receive empty directories)

    5. Windows is creating Registry files for this application (when application will want to register Explorer extension, will do it on real Registry; when will want to change something else will do it on this virtual file)

    Applications are very separated (sandboxied) and this is default behaviour (you can move without any problems "installed" software for example to other partition). When you will select special UAC option and will give admin user/pass, you will be able to run software in "old" mode with access to real Registry and system directories (this would be required, when you will use file manager for example). Such software should have differently looking windows (which could be sign for user, that they have more privileges).

    Each user account should have 2 options:

    1. allow running/installing new applications (steps 1-5 above)

    2. allow running only installed applications

    What with UAC ?

    1. for installing new applications (giving application name – step 3 above)

    2. for installing new driver

    and few other things.

    This is only draft, but the true is, that such system should have few components:

    1. core + drivers (there should be tool for removing some drivers to save space)

    2. ms-dos subsystem

    3. win32 subsystem with old libraries

    4. .net subsystem

    5. directx

    6. IE

    7. games, ….

    Each of them (excluding core) should be removable.

    Additionally there should be one place, where you should be able to disable ALL startup processes (setup in Registry, files, etc. etc.).

    I understand, that deep changes need more hard work than work required for improving old solutions (NT line), but I have feeling, that many people (not only me) are expecting something more from Windows than is provided now.

    Will we see something like that ?

    Vista wasn’t received good by market, MS is proposing Seven now. Some answers are still unanswered: for example what are details of DRM implementation ? What is sense of putting it, when Seven will not have native Blue-Ray play support ? (I’m not sure, if 3rd party players will use Protected Path) What will MS do, when this will be not received good enough by the market ?

    These are doubts from customer (and programer and tester), not flames. I really wish everything the best to Microsoft and would like to change XP in some tasks to something new, but…

    And once again: I had to write this, because Windows is affecting us in many places. I don’t want flame here, decrease meaning of MS teams work, I wanted to make loud thinking about future only.

    If you don’t have constructive comments about it, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE not comment.

  74. mdaria510@gmail.com says:

    The enthusiast population, the people essentially having this discussion, make up a *very* small percent of that total population.

    But without sounding too self-important, I believe that the enthusiast population is to be catered to far more than their numbers suggest. Case in point: Vista.

    Vista was the most stable and secure version of windows ever.  But changes under the hood led to incompatibilities that frustrated the common user.  It was also the biggest in terms of memory and HDD footprint – that led to reduced performance, and frustrated enthusiasts even more the the compatibility.  Both sides had reason to be unhappy.  

    Regular users spread their discontent person to person, which is quite damaging.  But enthusiasts – their spread their discontent far and wide through the internet echo chamber, and through the tech media.  This was far more damaging IMO.  

    Now I personally think Vista in it’s current state is very good.  Amongst my real life friends and family, I’m the ONLY person who thinks so, because they only ever heard bad things.

    But by and large, it seems like the enthusiasts are on board for Windows 7.  Thats great for microsoft.  Recently, a non-techie coworker was telling ME how great windows 7 was going to be.  Why?  Cause he read good things about it from a tech site.  He’s a mac user now after a bad Vista experience.  And he wants to switch back to windows cause of what he’s heard the tech media say about Windows 7.  

    So here we are.  The enthusiasts here are almost entirely unanimous on what they want MS to do – allow them to *COMPLETELY* remove *ALL* the stuff they dont want.  

    And the PC world is so different now – there are netbooks, HTPCs, Home servers, things that hardly existed not too long ago.  Not only do different users have different needs, but a user may have different needs for each of their systems.  I dont need paint and wordpad on my HTPC, and I dont need DVD maker on my netbook, and I hardly need *anything* on my server.

    Make it so only an enthusiast can do it.  We can handle it.  Put out a non-supported powertoy like Tweak UI, perhaps.  Lets not forget the existence of vLite and nLite.  I was very happy with my vLited Vista install, having no compatibility problems, until it came time to install SP1.  

    I always wished I didnt have to resort to such a dirty hack in order to make windows work my way.  You dont need to get silly and remove APIs and backends to save a few KB, but its simply just not configurable enough yet.

    If you make us like it, we’ll make them like it.  It should be obvious what a great job in that regard we’re already doing.  You’re on the right track.  Dont stop when you’re almost there.  

  75. Anonymuos says:

    @Jack_Mayo and Steven,

    Can you take the effort to make the window larger/full-screen by default? When 1024 x 768 is the minimum resolution, I see no reason why users should require: Expand, then scroll, expand/resize again, scroll again. Also, during deployment using tools like DISM, can these be customized before setup?

    I tried turning off Media Center and Media Player. It asked me for a reboot. Then I turned them on again without rebooting. It again turned them on and then asked me for a reboot. Now if I visit ARP again without rebooting, it doesn’t show them as Turned on. Is this a "bug or feature by design"?

    I’m disappointed that the user doesn’t have a choice of keeping everything on the installation media and off the hard disk. You made this decision probably for support cost reasons besides developers. Sure this won’t prevent me from upgrading to Windows 7. Then again, this whole Component-based servicing system is broken by design. There have been more complaints about this CBS architecture than positive responses. It still makes me wait at logoff and logon and shows "Configuring features" and "Configuring updates". This should be done in the background using low priority I/O and if the user initiates a shutdown/restart while it’s going on, only then should the logoff be kept pending till it is configured to prevent improper component configuration. As a user (and many others I’ve discussed this with), I don’t expect to use an OS which makes me wait for configuring whatever updates or features at logon or logoff when its previous iteration didn’t. That should keep me from upgrading to Windows 7. Now it’s too late but perhaps by Windows 7 service pack 1, you can make this "feature" not interupt logon and logoff.

    Windows since Vista has started compromising features, choice and control for power users in favor of less experienced users. Less experienced users indeed have all the choice and control.

  76. anony.muos says:

    Microsoft, you have come a long way. Now you only need to add these to the Add/Remove list:

    1. Accessories (similar to Games) – we’ve had this in some many earlier versions of Windows

    2. BitLocker Drive Encryption components. I’d rather prefer to have them included in lower SKUs yet have the option to remove them

    3. Windows Defender (this is super-critical). I don’t need Windows Defender.

    4. P2P Networking Components like XP allowed

    5. Does "Tablet PC Components" include Speech components? I’d prefer to remove anything speech and accessibility related.

    6. Optical Platform

    7. System Tools, the actual Backup utility and PowerShell

  77. sadyc says:

    Windows 2008 allows the user to completely uninstall windows components (get rid of all media APIs, codecs, etc). It even allows you to wipe the Vista-style GUI-beautification.

    Even more, it actually allows you, not to install them at all in the first place.

    Isn’t it the same Microsoft that makes Windows 7?

    Why doesn’t Microsoft want to allow its users control over their Windows?

    Why is Microsoft trying to fool people by invoking all kind of technical issues and writing endless articles about the difficulties they face?

  78. sadyc says:

    By Windows 2008 I mean Windows Server 2008…

  79. smartpatrol says:

    rant:Personally i have very little use for these types of features and feel that its sad that Microsoft has to build a tool to cripple valuable functionality/applications(often times superior to other applications of similiar types) just to accomidate the Euro Whiners. /rant

  80. burgesjl says:

    Once again, this shows that in many ways MS just does not ‘get it’.

    Its been said many time on this blog already. There’s a right way to do this, and MS aren’t doing it.

    1. Include options during the setup. Yes, you’ve got to do this.

    2. You’ve got a right mishmash of ‘features’ here, and they need to be split into (a) End User things and (b) Developer/Infrastructure things. Media player goes into bucket (a) and TFTP or .Net framework into bucket (b).

    3. You rely on having an Internet connection to do things like validation of licenses and download updates, especially service packs, but you still find the need to have other code ‘staged’. How dumb are you?????

    4. There are at least 3 ‘statuses’ for code. (i) loaded and active (available) (ii) staged locally (iii) not installed. Office has this distinction. And it works perfectly well with ‘install on first use’. Windows should work the same way.

    5. That UI is about as old as Windows itself, its ugly, and doesn’t fit the purpose for which its being used, it gives no information, it doesn’t display dependencies etc. etc. etc. etc.

    Get back to us all when you’ve fixed this…. its half a job as usual.

  81. aaron@aarondm.com says:

    "I tried turning off Media Center and Media Player. It asked me for a reboot. Then I turned them on again without rebooting. It again turned them on and then asked me for a reboot. Now if I visit ARP again without rebooting, it doesn’t show them as Turned on. Is this a "bug or feature by design"?" –Anonymous

    This may be unrelated to the topic but after reading this post I was wondering. Why on earth did you guys make it so that for practically every update/change – the computer needs to be restarted?

    Okay its not much of an issue with home users, but I have a server running Windows Server 2003 – and wow, honestly every single Windows Update requires a reboot of the server, making it highly inefficient for good up times, and you can’t just ignore a security update on Windows!

    Why not make it so that, like in Linux/Unix we can do updates that DO NOT require non-stop system reboots? Heck, if not for home users (would still love that though) at least, AT LEAST for your server releases?

  82. JoeWoodbury says:

    I’m all for making windows smaller, though this can be done as much through better and more efficient coding than anything else. I don’t think many critics here understand the ramifications of removing features entirely or even what that means. As has been pointed out, many developers depend on the IE rendering engine being available (I’ve even used the DVD burner component programatically.) But let’s say you remove WMP entirely; does this include the CODECs?

  83. sokolum says:

    I am so definitely agree with:

    PLEASE stop using capitals where it’s not needed!

    ===========================================

    re: Beta to RC Changes – Turning Windows Features On or Off

    Just from looking at the list, please can you make it consistent for the poor users.

    When you use an acronym it would be best to always spell it out and put the acronym itself in brackets.

    So that would be:

    File Transfer Protocol (FTP) server

    Services for Network File System (NFS)

    Trivial File Transfer Protocol (TFTP) client

    Also, can you not capitalise words that don’t need them like

    Internet games

    More games

    Web management tools

    and so on.

  84. Andre says:

    "I don’t think many critics here understand the ramifications of removing features entirely or even what that means. As has been pointed out, many developers depend on the IE rendering engine being available"

    Sure I do, one of my own apps depends on IE. If the user chooses not to install IE my app won’t run, where is the problem. Windows could also figure out the dependency of an uninstalled feature (either reference or LoadLibrary) and then instead of a "DLL missing" dialog could prompt with a dialog asking whether the missing feature should be installed. You can even hook the LoadLibrary call and block the calling app until the feature is installed.

    The problem is that Windows is not designed by engineers but by bureaucrats. Why does Microsoft always have to choose the worst option?

    But the good thing is that we, the users, have the option to use Win7 or Linux/MacOS and run WinXP in a virtual machine.

  85. ShakaUVM says:

    All I want to see as far as customizing Windows 7 goes is:

    The ability to disable the hideous breadcrumb folder navigation system (which is bad from a UI design standpoint for a lot of reasons) and use the old up-arrow button and backspace for moving up a directory again.

    I’ve been using Vista since it came out, and it STILL pisses me off every time I need to navigate up a level. There’s no way to disable it, either.

  86. Andre says:

    "The ability to disable the hideous breadcrumb folder navigation system (which is bad from a UI design standpoint for a lot of reasons) and use the old up-arrow button and backspace for moving up a directory again.

    I’ve been using Vista since it came out, and it STILL pisses me off every time I need to navigate up a level. There’s no way to disable it, either."

    Totally agree, I want my old Explorer back.

    Why can’t I run my XP explorer.exe on Vista/Win7? Why does a File Manager has so many dependencies? Even the old Win 3.1 fileman.exe runs on never Windows versions.

  87. marypcb says:

    Where people are asking to remove features/components to save disk space rather than simply to turn them off, I could see a control panel that gave you the option (turn this off so you can turn it on later without needing to use the DVD/turn this off and delete it so that you must have the DVD to turn it on again). But there are probably a limited number of features that could be turned off without impact (maybe an app uses something from Paint but not many apps rely on Spider). Would it feel confusing to have the turn off/delete option if delete wasn’t available for every feature/component?

  88. trouwjurk kiezen says:

    I don’t get it. PC’s have so much disk space nowadays, how can you complain about it..

  89. dfenn says:

    I would love to turn speech off and uninstall the language pack as well

  90. Asesh says:

    You guys should add Windows Defender to that list too

  91. Hairs says:

    I appear to have got rather more heated than I intended there.

    This is an issue that gets my goat for a simple reason that it goes to the core of what I as an engaged user of the OS experience – Call us enthusiasts, or power users, but everyday Joe Soap users experience similar frustrations albeit from different causes.

    Comments that state things like "Addon X is needed, don’t let them remove it because it breaks my app" or "Disk space is cheap" have some validity, but I greatly disagree with their intent. Firstly, while MS has an obligation to its devs not to sacrifice codebases that people have relied on (and have been encouraged to rely on), it also has an obligation to its end users not to take up their time unnecessarily. I’ve said before that the reason I think Vista uptake was slow and some press commentary was bad, was because not enough focus was put on what the End User was going to get from the OS for their money. The boot animation blog actually exposed that somewhat unwittingly when it revealed that the Vista startup process essentially sat around wasting the End User’s time for a large period (in computing terms) just so that it could show off a fancy animation (that wasn’t even very impressive). Windows 7 has seen this and changed it – this is a fundamental change of ethos that can only be good for the OS as a whole, if it is applied all over.

    Yes, allowing users to actually delete IE/.Net/WMP is going to break some apps – in some cases quite a few apps. But:

    1: The majority of users aren’t going to go to the trouble of doing this because they don’t feel the need to, or wouldn’t be comfortable (we’ve all got our own User Support base at home that we know balk at doing the simplest OS maintenance tasks)

    2: The people who want to remove this know what they want and are prepared to deal with the consequences.

    3: Just because it breaks your app, doesn’t mean that’s a problem for the user. There are other apps to use. And it won’t affect an app’s market share significantly, because the number of users doing this is limited. What affects market share is user familiarity, compatibility and code quality, above all others.

    4: Will it increase support costs? No it won’t. This is something that can be added to an FAQ – or better yet, a *well coded* app could look for the dependencies it expects and warn the user they’re not installed. (A good example of a valid OS API that could be re-used by all apps!)

    Space and footprint:

    1: This blog itself has pointed out that every extra line of code, every extra millisecond spent, every extra byte of memory used comes with a cost, and that cost might be tiny in respect of the individual process, but it all adds up to big numbers.

    2: More code = more bugs, more testing, more interdependencies, more work, longer development time and more problems for all concerned. The more MS adds in to the OS, the more time it takes them to test, fix, and release – and the less resources are available for cleaning up long-term issues or looking at valid architectural change.

  92. ThomMck says:

    In the introduction of this blog you mention some customers requested a native "PDF format reader"? Is this in the pipeline?

    As a systems engineer I can really see a benefit to this. Customers wouldn’t need to maintain other PDF readers, security patches etc. unless they needed advance features. It could be managed by a built-in reader updated by Windows Update

  93. dzandkamp@hotmail.com says:

    @hairs

    "Yes, allowing users to actually delete IE/.Net/WMP is going to break some apps – in some cases quite a few apps. But:

    1: The majority of users aren’t going to go to the trouble of doing this because they don’t feel the need to, or wouldn’t be comfortable (we’ve all got our own User Support base at home that we know balk at doing the simplest OS maintenance tasks)"

    > which leads the question down to a numbers game.

    If you want the abovementioned changes, someone else’s propositions take the back seat.

    "2: The people who want to remove this know what they want and are prepared to deal with the consequences."

    > Strangely enough, when these people screw up, they still blame everyone but themselves  for it 😉

  94. ventsyv says:

    You most definitely need to add a complete removal option. Also add a prompt warning the user that by removing the selected features they can cause depending software to stop working correctly.

    Services have dependency tab, you can add the same functionality to features and be able to inform the user what is it that they could potentially break if they remove the particular module.

    Ultimately it is the users decision, you can’t make it for them.

  95. tommarnk says:

    Removing Windows Media Player also removes EVR 🙁

    so players that uses EVR wont work correctly

  96. zxrg says:

    Hi, i cannot find the internet explorer 8 and media features options on the feature list to turn off or on.

    my windows 7 versioon is build 7000.

    Help, Developers!

  97. alexanderhowell says:

    I managed to disable IE7 in XP.

    Well actually, it disabled itself.

    Has some crazy bug where IE wont even run, terminates itself on startup.

  98. berfie@hotmail.com says:

    trouwjurk kiezen : Unfortunately I’m still using a 40GB HDD, and some netbooks in the market now are even less than 20GB, thus we need as much free space as possible for other programmes.

    Well, if a programmer requires any files that MS Windows has, and was not installed originally, why not just prompt the user to insert back the installation disc to obtain it, instead of leaving any footprint in the harddisk itself? What we want is a simple, small OS which doesn’t takes up much space, add/remove as we deem fit (not leaving a single trace of it’s existance). If a programme developed by an external developer needs a library already available, just get a prompt to install it in the shared library. Upon removal, the registry should be have contained a list of programmes still needing the library. If there is, then leave it untouched, else remove it.

    My network sharing is broken, I can’t even create new one (after i had removed the very 1 and only sharing I attempted to create – after following help guide).

    IE8? Huge huge bad experience for me, I don’t use FF, Safari, not even opera, but little Maxthon. Customisable, light, fast. Small footprint. Why can’t IE be like that? Attempt with tabbed browsing in IE is horrible (to the extend of crashing), used up precious real-estate on my small screen. Fonts? I hardly even use beyond 10 different fonts. Why should I even need over 100 different fonts to be preinstalled? There should be default the most basic number of fonts installed for displaying the windows (if I need it, I’ll install it, just prompt me when I’m attempting to use it).

    Why can’t the spacing between the icons on the taskbar be adjustable? Mac gives me smaller or bigger icons when I want to, but not Win7. Why can’t the backups be removed? Shouldn’t updates be working and fully compatible? You means those posted ain’t safe that I shouldn’t even update in the first place?

    As for those typos, I guess MS should start hiring proof-readers to check for slipups.

  99. berfie@hotmail.com says:

    Oh forgetting about pagefile. When I add more ram(memory) into my system, shouldn’t it mean I have more memory to store in the ram? How is it that the pagefile must be larger then? Isn’t it when 1 becomes larger, the other becomes smaller?

    On Windows XP service packs. Why must it be unpacked onto the system’s harddisk and not whichever medium I want? I can’t even update it on my laptop which have only 2gb left. This is really not ideal.

  100. Remiko says:

    I just wonder why there is no option to remove input methods (NOT keyboards) build in the system. Even I never use Korean, also the stupid Chinese (Traditional) ones.

    Instead, I have hacked the Registry. Make the MS Pinyin IME 2007 which really just categories in Chinese (PRC) acts like the one of Chinese (Taiwan). I could do this easily in XP, but difficult in Vista or 7, unless I install MS Pinyin IME 2007 separately.

    Also, there are a lot people from Hong Kong or Taiwan installing XP-like input methods. And there are also people in mainland China installing others.

    Moreover, why there is no option to remove Accessories such as Paint, Sound Recorder, System Information, Disk Defragmente else?

    I believe that MS dev-group had considered dependency problems due to removing core components. But, as like ventsyv said, end users should have rights to make the decision and also face the risks of any problems due to removing components. There should be no reason opposed this.

    This is the core value of existence such tools, like XPlite (post-install), nLite/vLite (pre-install).

  101. honzon says:

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  102. Thesis says:

    I want to, but not Win7. Why can’t the backups be removed? Shouldn’t updates be working and fully compatible? You means those posted ain’t safe that I shouldn’t even update in the first place?

  103. Dissertation Writing says:

    Mac gives me smaller or bigger icons when I want to, but not Win7. Why can’t the backups be removed? Shouldn’t updates be working and fully compatible? You means those posted ain’t safe that I shouldn’t even update in the first place?

  104. Anonymous says:

    longer development time and more problems for all concerned. The more MS adds in to the OS, the more time it takes them to test, fix, and release – and the less resources are available for cleaning up long-term issues or looking at valid architectural change.

  105. Coursework Help says:

    This should be done in the background using low priority I/O and if the user initiates a shutdown/restart while it’s going on, only then should the logoff be kept pending till it is configured to prevent improper component configuration. As a user (and many others I’ve discussed this with), I don’t expect to use an OS which makes me wait for configuring whatever updates or features at logon or logoff when its previous iteration didn’t. That should keep me from upgrading to Windows 7. Now it’s too late but perhaps by Windows 7 service pack 1, you can make this "feature" not interupt logon and logoff.

  106. Web Design Mumbai says:

    This shouldn’t be given much priority, cos it aint too important imo.

  107. GarryWert says:

    The boot animation blog actually exposed that somewhat unwittingly when it revealed that the Vista startup process essentially sat around wasting the End User’s time for a large period (in computing terms) just so that it could show off a fancy animation (that wasn’t even very impressive). Windows 7 has seen this and changed it – this is a fundamental change of ethos that can only be good for the OS as a whole, if it is applied all over.

  108. web developer says:

    For someone it might not be important but i find it very useful post because i like to chose which features i like to to keep and which i like to turn off. Not everything is for everyone. So before giving your opinion think benefits of others as well.

  109. Tolgacan says:

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  111. valterchaves says:

    I just wonder why there is no option to remove input methods (NOT keyboards) build in the system. Even I never use Korean, also the stupid Chinese (Traditional) ones.

    Instead, I have hacked the Registry. Make the MS Pinyin IME 2007 which really just categories in Chinese (PRC) acts like the one of Chinese (Taiwan). I could do this easily in XP, but difficult in Vista or 7, unless I install MS Pinyin IME 2007 separately.

  112. cirurgia plastica says:

    You most definitely need to add a complete removal option. Also add a prompt warning the user that by removing the selected features they can cause depending software to stop working correctly.

    Services have dependency tab, you can add the same functionality to features and be able to inform the user what is it that they could potentially break if they remove the particular module.

  113. star7 says:

    Thank you for letting us turn off IE, at least a little bit.  I still think someone deserves to go to jail for forcing that security hazard on us, but now I can make sure no one I know accidently runs it.

  114. MMOGamer says:

    This is a ridiculously GOOD feature. I can’t believe Microsoft didn’t include this in Vista. Letting people turn off features they don’t use is a great way to save CPU resources

  115. vikojhons says:

    Interesting post. I normally comment AFTER reading the posts I visit. If I am ona interesting blog, but, do not like the post, or do not find it worthy to comment on, I refrain from doing so. Thanks for sharing.

  116. sports betting says:

    I’m very excited for Windows 7, hope (and doubt) they put this kind of TLC into Windows Mobile 7 (or crazier yet, make Windows Mobile 7 a version of Windows 7, so all your big boy apps still work).

  117. GarryWert says:

    I just wonder why there is no option to remove input methods (NOT keyboards) build in the system. Even I never use Korean, also the stupid Chinese (Traditional) ones.

    Instead, I have hacked the Registry. Make the MS Pinyin IME 2007 which really just categories in Chinese (PRC) acts like the one of Chinese (Taiwan). I could do this easily in XP, but difficult in Vista or 7, unless I install MS Pinyin IME 2007 separately.

  118. Puroclean says:

    Although you can if you really want to, you should not turn off Windows Firewall unless you have another firewall enabled.

  119. Windows 7 now ships with UAC configured to hide prompts when users change Windows settings. While this mode still ensures normal applications can’t overwrite your entire registry hive, Microsoft made a boo-boo in allowing users to change any Windows setting without any prompts. Yes, you can even change UAC settings, allow applications free reign in elevated mode (after the required restart).

  120. elvissenthil says:

    The point is not merely that these features take up space … (Although that is a valid issue for some people ) .

    The point is, it is my computer and I should have the choice whether to have a program installed or not . I am forced to use windows because there are lots of programs that run only in windows (Eg: almost all games) .

    It’s like since I need windows , I also have to tolerate a whole lot of other "applets" and "features" on my computer .

    The security , performance and modularity aside what about ethics ???

    I say don’t decide things for me .

    Some ppl b4 me have argued that this is justified becoz some lazy developers choose to cut corners …. I don’t think that needs a counter-arguement.

    And I do agree with the need for simplicity of end-users (Some of whom need help to find "help" in windows). But there is no reason for choice to be sacrificed for the sake of simplicity . Maybe give dumbed-down versions for end-users and power-user versions.(same cost but more choice)

    I know a lot of noobs downloading stripped down versions of Xp and Vista on torrents just so they can get more performance .

    But great work on win 7 guys … It’s miles above vista . I love the revamped UAC . But I would’ve liked a more powerful control panel .

    One thing I would like to see in win 8 is a  Visual automation system somewhat like autoit or silkuli .But with more support and functionality added.

  121. Ot all depends on your PC. If you have a new and fast one. You probably let everything. If it is slower, you should put them off

  122. If its performance can be improved,then turning Windows Features On .

  123. daiye881219 says:

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  124. hidrolipo says:

    personally i think the new internet Explorer is unique and sensational.there is no other OS something more comfortable and complete. its just perfect as it is

  125. Gab says:

    I think finally Microsoft got it right… this is a proper windows… solid, attractive, easy to use. Kudos for the developers

  126. Vaibhav Maheshwari says:

    I use windows 7 ultimate N and and installed ii6 via setup   NOT  add or remove windows components .

    I received the error :

    Unable to connect

    Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at localhost.

    I deleted intpub folder but recieved an error. Some files got deleted and some did'nt. I installed iis6 manager using add or remove windows components.

    I get the error on running the localhost via Mozilla Firefox :

    Unable to connect

    Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at localhost.

    Secondly visual studio 2010 says you need that —  To access iis you need iis metabase iis configuration toolkit .

    Do I need reinstall WINDOWS 7 Again . SOMEBODY HELP!!!!!!!!!

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  130. Jessi says:

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