Going behind the scenes building Windows 8


As we start to talk about some more of the details of the Consumer Preview release and some of the changes, or just features we haven’t had a chance to blog about yet, we wanted to take a step back and re-introduce the team a bit–a reminder of the people behind the features we talk about. Building Windows 8 is a pretty significant undertaking and involves a team with diverse backgrounds and experiences. We’re proud of the fact that the diversity on our own team reflects the diversity of the customers using Windows around the world. Last release, one of the members of the team, Larry Osterman, wrote about working on Windows 7 compared to previous releases. In this post, Larry reflects on the Windows 8 project through two other members of the team. 
–Steven


Three years ago, I wrote a post on the Engineering Windows 7 blog about the Windows 7 development process.  For this go-round, we thought we’d let you hear from some of the newer members of the team, by doing an informal Q&A session with two members of our Windows Runtime Experience team, both of whom started in Windows just before we started planning Windows 8 (so, Windows 8 is their first experience with developing Windows from start to finish).

Tell me a bit about yourself.  Where do you come from and how long have you been at Microsoft?

Chris: Hi, my name is Chris Edmonds. A native Oregonian, I attended school at Oregon State University (Go, Beavers!) and have had internships at NASA and Garmin. During these experiences I worked on projects ranging from robotics to avionics and did research on high speed routing for many-core processors. Microsoft recruited me from Oregon State, and I arrived on the Windows team roughly two and a half years ago.

Mohammad: Hello, My name is Mohammad Almalkawi. I am a software design engineer in the Windows division at Microsoft. I have also been at Microsoft for about two and a half years. I graduated from the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign (Go, Illini!) where I was working on fault-tolerance and real-time systems integration research.

What do you work on for Windows 8?

Chris: I started working with the Windows team a few months before Windows 7 was released to manufacturing. Shortly thereafter, I joined the newly created Windows Runtime Experience team. The Runtime Experience team builds many pieces of the Windows Runtime (WinRT) infrastructure. During Windows 8 development I had the opportunity to work across many parts of the WinRT.

In the first milestone (of three), I worked to define core patterns of the WinRT system. We break the project into three milestones and divide the architecture and implementation across these milestones to get us from a whiteboard sketch to a finished product. We have to include all the work it takes to coordinate the different technologies across Windows 8. In first milestone (M1), we designed patterns for events, object construction, asynchronous methods, and method overloading. It was important to define strong patterns for these basic concepts in order to allow each programming language that interoperates with the WinRT to expose these concepts in natural and familiar way for their developers.

In the second milestone, I had the opportunity to build part of our deployment story for Metro style applications. Specifically, I worked on registering Metro style applications with the WinRT so that they can be launched and can interact with contracts.

The third milestone included lots of cross-group collaboration, which I learned is crucial to a project as deep and as broad as Windows 8. I worked with a team to define and implement core pieces of the application model for Metro style applications. This work ensured that Metro style apps written in different languages and on different UI platforms behave in a consistent manner in regards to contracts and application lifetime.

Mohammad: I had the opportunity to participate in Windows 8 since the very beginning. We had three major feature milestones (M1, M2, and M3) to realize the goals of Windows 8. Each of these milestones consisted of:

  • Specification and design phase to tease out requirements through feature crew meeting and active engagement with partner teams in Windows and across the company. A feature crew is made up of the developers, testers, and program managers who work on a specific feature—usually 4 or 5 people. The outcome of this phase was a set of specification documents—functional (pm), development design (dev), test design and a threat model (test)), as well as an execution plan (all of us). This lets us better understand features details and allows us to execute at high confidence with focused efforts.
  • Coding phase to implement the features identified in the specification phase along with their unit tests and functional tests.
  • Integration and stabilization phase to integrate the various pieces from various teams together and to fix bugs.

In the first milestone, I worked on the design and development of the discovery and activation of application extensions. This WinRT infrastructure allows applications to participate in OS-supported contracts (such as search and share) and serves as a basis for exciting Windows features, including the search and share charms.

In the second milestone, I was in charge of implementing the Windows metadata resolution feature, which is a key API that ties the Windows metadata generated by the WinRT tool chain and JavaScript and C# language projections.

And in M3, I was in charge for the design and development of the namespace enumeration API, which enabled the Chakra JavaScript engine to support reflection functionality over WinRT namespaces and types. CLR also uses this API to implement metadata resolution and Visual Studio uses it to support Intellisense for WinRT types.

What’s a normal work day like?
Chris: Normal day? One of the things that I really like about working in Windows is that there is rarely a normal day. Depending on the period of the product cycle, I may spend my day writing specifications, writing code, hashing out ideas with people on my team, fixing bugs, or one of many other activities. Even though the activities are varied, my day almost always involves problem solving in some form. Whether it is figuring out the cause of a crash or helping to design features, I get to work with smart people to solve interesting problems each day.

What has been your biggest surprise?

Chris: I think the biggest thing that surprised me about working in Windows was the size of the team and the number of activities that are going on at any point in time. In working on the few features assigned to me I had the opportunity to interact with hundreds of other people across the team to come up with specifications and solutions. It sounds really hectic (and it was a little overwhelming at first) but it always amazes me how well teams communicate together to come up with some really cool solutions to problems. When I think of the number of people who use Windows and the number of ways Windows is used, I guess it seems incredible that we get all this done with as few people as we do.

Mohammad: The thing that surprised me the most at Microsoft is that you get thrown at real-world problems and you will be given the opportunity to own critical pieces from the very beginning. You learn on the job as opposed to training, which is also available if you need it.

Of course you are not left alone in the dark, as there are lots of support channels, domain experts, and senior engineers who are there to provide help when you need it.

How was Windows 8 different from other projects you’ve worked on?

Chris: Having worked mostly on smaller projects at Oregon State and in my prior internships (most code projects are small compared to Windows), the biggest difference is how much code I read every day. I find that I spend a good portion of time reading and debugging code written by other teams before I came to Microsoft, as well as going over code I wrote myself in a previous milestone. This has really made me appreciate well-written code.

What has been your biggest challenge that you had to solve?

Mohammad: Soon after joining the team, I had to makes fixes in unfamiliar code in COM activation. This code is very infrastructural, as a lot of components in Windows are built on top of it, so it was crucial that my changes would not cause regressions.

This code might have seemed straightforward to experts in my team, but certainly that was not the case for a new guy like me. I had to read a lot of code, step through the debugger, and write lots of test cases to improve my understanding and confidence in making the necessary changes without breaking anything.

Can you tell me something about what it is like to come up with the plans for Windows 8?

Chris: Planning Windows 8 takes different shapes for different people on the team. As a part of the planning effort the newly formed Runtime Experience team took a week to build apps using a variety of languages, stacks, frameworks, and technologies. That’s because a design tenet of Windows 8 is that it can be programmed in multiple languages. Part of the goal of this effort was to force each of us use a language that we were not already familiar with so that we could experience the learning curve. I worked on a 3D terrain generation program using IronPython and XNA, a photo gallery app using HTML\JavaScript, and a simple 2D physics engine in C++ using GDI for drawing. From the app building exercises, we created presentations to give to the team on the experience of building each app, along with a list of the good, bad, and ugly of each experience.

What impressed you?

Mohammad: I was very impressed by the quality of the Windows engineering system that we have in place; it supports thousands of Windows software engineers and keeps millions lines of code in the operating system healthy with nightly builds and quality gate runs. The automated quality gate runs include critical end-to-end tests, performance tests, application compatibility tests, static code analysis and a few other tests that we use to quickly discover problems and to tightly control their propagation across branches via forward and reverse integrations.

What is milestone quality (MQ)?

Chris: This milestone is all about getting the code base, engineering tools, and engineering processes ready for the next product cycle. As I learned, MQ is a time to look across the code and do some housekeeping—from just cleaning up source files, to redoing abstractions that prepared us for the work we would do in Windows 8. Code is our asset so dedicating time to maintaining that asset is pretty important. During MQ of Windows 8 I participated in three different efforts. The first was to create a system that automatically reported back code coverage numbers via an internal dashboard for our team based on our daily test passes. This was one of the first things I worked on at Microsoft, and it gave me a great opportunity to learn about our engineering systems. The second effort that I participated in was a code sanitization practice to help standardize the way we use asserts across the code base. Finally, I worked on a prototype system that would use some pieces of our IntelliSense infrastructure to automatically catalog all parts of our SDK.

What are you focusing on now?

Mohammad: Performance, Performance, and Performance!

The features I owned are close to the bottom of the software stack and used very frequently, so their performance is very critical. Therefore, my focus now is on analyzing performance, and prototyping and integrating various performance improvements. We built things from the start to be high performance, so now we are fine-tuning that performance, given the tons of code that has been written to the infrastructure.

How do you validate the work end-to-end?

Chris: As part of a team dedicated to improving the application developer experience, it is important that we regularly take off our operating system developer hats and don our application developer hats. This is done in small ways in our everyday work, but one of the most structured forms of this are the application building weeks.  Based on the initial application building week that took place during planning, we took the time each milestone to develop an application using the WinRT, with different teams focused on different languages and APIs. Writing apps on a platform that is still in development creates some interesting challenges, and these weeks are a fun change of pace. These app building weeks (some of which included more teams) have resulted in numerous bugs being filed, and have caused us to rethink and change some of our API guidance in order to make each developer’s experience more natural and familiar. A “bug” can be anything from a fatal crash, memory leak, or security hole, all the way to a report that “something just doesn’t seem right.” We treat everything like a bug and go through a process of categorizing and prioritizing these reports. The reports come from the groups in Windows building on our APIs, other groups at Microsoft, early partners such as device and PC makers, our interns (as you saw at //build/), and from people in the forums who are building apps now on the Developer Preview.

What is the most important lesson you have learned?

Mohammad: I got to experience the idea that “anything that can go wrong will go wrong” given the size and scale of the product, and the large number of users (by the way, we do dogfood our work internally from the very beginning on our primary dev machines). This taught me that paying attention to details and focusing on quality in every line of code is very important for the overall stability of the product. Of course, that is just one of many important lessons I learned so far—I’m still working my way through my first Windows release and expect to learn a few more things during the upcoming phases of the product.

I can’t wait.

Chris: Me too!!

Comments (626)

  1. JGodo says:

    Thanks for your efforts in win8 guys.

    Now, how about an article about the future of desktop computing with its real multitasking and so on? Or, how do you plan productivity people get work done in an environment with all full screened? A post talking about this would be really useful now for a lot of people so they can decide right now if they need to migrate to other OS or they can still support windows. Thanks.

  2. ReMark says:

    See the last comments on previous post.

  3. I have both dev Preview and Consumer Preview; and I always awe about its fantastic abilities.

    I look forward to real windows 8!!! ^^

  4. RWalrond says:

    Standing Ovation!

    As a small independent developer I want to thank the Windows team for creating an environment that would allow me to more easily get my Apps and my ideas out to users. I'm super excited and can't wait to get my Apps in the App store!

  5. adarauzo says:

    Thanks for your incredible work guys and for listening to the users. I wanted post like this to know who are the people behind this project.

    Sorry for the offtopic, but do you have more plans of continuing improving the UI in the desktop? Because the change between the desktop and the start menu shocks everyone. Have you seen this UI in the The Verge? http://www.theverge.com/…/windows-desktop-ui-concept

    Sorry for my english

  6. Matt Sharpe says:

    I would summarize my concerns about Windows 8/metro but it would be far more efficient to link to this excellently written piece:

    http://www.livingdigitally.net/…/windows-8-a-giant-misstep-forward.html

  7. emh...-.- says:

    @MICROSOFT

    are you aware that over 90% of users wants back the start menu

    i hope that you improve the usability on pc and desktop!!!!!!! pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

    in italy.. windows 8=FLop  

    why let not choose to the user the interface?? it's simple!!!! if you do this all the people starts to love windows 8!

    sorry for poore(bad bad) english!

  8. xbox rightwingers says:

    I've been using the Consumer Preview since last week, on a virtual image on my Core i7 desktop and a non-virtual upgraded Core 2 Duo laptop.  Must say I am pleasantly surprised with how well the mouse works with Metro.  The scroll wheel is a nice substitute for using a finger to do sideways scrolling, and it's more intuitive than I expected.  Performance on both desktop and laptop is excellent.  (These are 2009 devices that originally had Vista and then were upgraded to Win 7.)

    That said, scrolling with a trackpad on the laptop leaves something to be desired, even with the pseudo scrollwheel actions enabled on the right side of the trackpad.  Is it possible to enable the laptop trackpad to treat single finger movements across the trackpad as a swipe instead of simply moving the mouse cursor?  If the screen showed the transparent circle for where the finger is like in the recent MS demonstrations, this would allow the trackpad on older devices to be more like a touchscreen.  Sensitivity for the size of the swipe movement could be set in the control panel, much like the sensitivity for mouse movements.  It won't work for multi-touch gestures, but single touch actions like press, long press, and swipes would work (I think).  Please correct me if this isn't technically possible.  I think it would be a better user experience for older laptops with trackpads.

  9. w3force says:

    @emh…-.- how you know 90% of user want it back

  10. Arturo says:

    What happened with UIElement.Effect????///

    Don't tell me I'm gonna have to use c++ + DirectX and code my own controls to make a cool(er) ui…

    Also what is gonna happen with XNA????

    Good job!!!

  11. I really love w8.

    Windows user community resisting w8 desktop experience because they are not ready to change, that’s not the case with apple users. No matter what apple throws at them they gonna like it.

    MS is at very vulnerable state. Just because of iPhone or iPad now more people know about apple and their product. iPhone is now driving more mac sales. So it’s very easy to lose market share. Right now MS is leader on desktop. So they have to play very smart in order to maintain this position.

    I have used windows and mac. I can see windows give you more power and awesome productivity. And that’s the reason people buys windows. So please don’t take away this. Do a survey within MS employees specially engineers. What’s their opinion about being productive on w8.

    On tablet side, w8 is gonna beat the hell out of any other table leader.

    IMHO, absolutely awesome job you guys are doing.

  12. I love windows 8 , I am enjoying exploring  a pc again, it is great fun. Great read by  Paul.        http://www.winsupersite.com/…/windows-8-consumer-preview-call-common-sense-142476

  13. ReMark says:

    I don't know if MS is forcing a "retarded dual-tasking" environment for pc too… but:

    http://www.lollercoasterlab.com/…/metro-apps-in-your-desktop-pc-useful.html

  14. Interesting post, like always. I can't wait for post about the early development of the Metro UI, in the milestone phase 1-3, if it will come?

  15. Mike says:

    Great work guys, but we're all here for reassurance that we'll have the Start Menu back for release. Every post you make between now and then won't get the full attention it deserves.

  16. Mathias says:

    Seriously, look at this:

    http://www.theverge.com/…/windows-desktop-ui-concept

    This is what Metro should look like on desktop. I want the full on Metro on my new tab, but not on my desktop that has a mouse to navigate and not a touchscreen.

  17. Jonathan says:

    MS isn't listening, they are going to ram this crap down are throats no matter what. Sigh.

  18. smr says:

    way to go Moh, we're all proud of you :)

  19. Jonathan says:

    MS isn't listening, they are going to ram this crap down our throats no matter what. Sigh. All of the comments on previous post are overwhelmingly negative, and yet not so much as a peep from Sinofsky and team.

  20. telpo says:

    Thank everyone for what you have done. A good move for Windows.

    Any plan to get a new team for Internet Explorer ? Desktop IE suck on Windows 8 and I won't talk about what is needed!!!

    I will suggest a better color than the grey for the scroll bar, it should be redesigned

  21. Steve says:

    I would very much like to know if there's any possible plans to change the Desktop interface in Windows 8 before launch. I don't mind metro, but I find using the start screen difficult with a mouse. Just opening it is troublesome, as is using the charm bar. I just don't find having to put the cursor in the screen corners very intuitive. I don't mind the start screen itself (although I do have to ask – no click and drag?), I just miss the start button.

  22. Kevin says:

    Having used the developer preview since //build/ and now using the consumer preview on very consistent bases I am thrilled with what I see.  I use the consumer preview on my dual monitors and I really dont understand all the whining about the start menu being replaced.  It takes a couple of minutes to get used to the idea but I really like the start screen.  It feels weird going back to the start menu after using the start screen.  I feel the start screen gives the desktop more capabilities than it had in the past.  I have felt for a while that there are things that my smartphone can do better than my desktop.  Metro and the start screen have now closed that gap.  Please don't give in to the whining Microsoft, you are doing the right thing.  (Im sure Microsoft heard all these same things back in the Win 95 days, or even the Win XP days)

  23. Pol says:

    Microsoft apuesto a que te hundiras por no escuchar a los usuarios de Windows.

  24. Pol says:

    Ellos quieren meternos el Windows 8 hasta por el ano, eso es lo que pretenden con estos posts, pero en realidad no estan escuchando. Que gran m***.

  25. Premysl Vavrousek says:

    Hi Steven

    Windows 8 is a great system, but their current form is much more problematic. I created a custom design for Windows 8 UI, and I think that in this implementation of the system would be more acceptable for beginners and advanced users.

    I suggest a separate environment for Metro and for Aero, but which complement each other. The choice is up to the user environment and on what devices and applications primarily used. Even in one environment is not deprived of a second application environment, but without the constant switching, which is very distracting.

    Preview is available on my blog at:

    http://goo.gl/mKBq4

    In short:

    In the Metro environment can run Win32 application without switching to desktop classic. The application runs like any other Metro applications – can sleep when you switch applications, renewal, or closed by user. At the same time run a one Win32 Application.

    The Aero environment is maintained Classic Start menu, which allows you to run Win32 applications and WinRT. The Aero environment, you can use Live Tiles panel that replaces the current sidebar.

    Metro applications can be run from the panel or from the Start Menu. Users can normally close as Win32. HD displays can also display multiple Metro applications in windows on the Aero desktop.

    I believe that this proposal for cooperation between the two environments was more acceptable to many users than the current version of the system.

    Sorry for bad English (Google Translator :)). I hope my proposal will cost at least think about.

    Good luck at work and in private life.

    Přemysl Vavroušek

  26. Arturo says:

    @Pol

    HAHAHA you make me laugh…

    You are going to stay behind, times are changing, and the future is promesing.

    As a developer, I'm very exited about windows 8.

    And BTW ENGLISH do you speak it????

    see: http://www.youtube.com/watch

  27. Roman says:

    Great work guys!  The consumer preview is amazing!  I wasn't really sure how you were going to merge the traditional desktop with the tablet interface, but you did it, and you did it better than I thought possible.

  28. Arturo says:

    *promising

    *excited

    At least I try…

  29. Stefano says:

    I tried the Italian Touch Keyboard and the é and ì letters are missing. Italian accented vowels are: à, è, é, ì, ò, ù. Please fix this before RTM or it would be a big mistake. All the 6 (six) accented letters MUST be present. Find space somewhere but put all of the 6 accented letters.

    Thank you.

  30. Andre says:

    Continue with the Metro.

    But, if you want to succeed with it, need to improve it as much as possible.

    Listen to the people.

    Linux is hunting the Windows on all sides.

    Microsoft cannot make mistakes.

  31. mvadu says:

    great post Larry, though I would prefer you writing some more on your blog.. its been a while..

    For WinRT please please put some good document writers. The quality of MSDN pages has been degraded recently. Compare few of the topics for Wind32 MSDN pages, to .NET articles to Silverlight (Windows Phone) pages. Tons of missing links, missing code samples, missing remarks, details, usage guidelines etc. Microsoft reached where it is today partly because of the developers support it got, and the support it provided to Developers. If you fail on MSDN, stakes are quite high.

  32. @Steven Sinofsky

    No question the Consumer Preview is better than Developer Preview on desktops.  The start screen is still weak for desktop users for two key reasons: It is full screen, and it does not have a nested folder hierarchy.  This second point is very important when installing existing desktop applications that put lots of tools and document links into the start menu.  Visual Studio is a great example of this, and I've got other engineering tools that wind up putting 200+ squares onto my start screen.  Also, search is not a real substitute for hierarchy, as the user may not know what they are searching for (ie discovery of tools, documents, and features that the user may not even know about).

  33. Harsh Raj says:

    windows 8 is really very impressive and new of its kind, but one thing i have noticed. After the launch of its consumer preview version, about 60% + comments were about the poor( better to say different) integration of metro style apps and legacy desktop. Indeed it is very difficult for us to get acquinted with the new style, say completely different integration of the metro and desktop.

    I think of a better idea which will solve the problem of millions of user(power and casual) by integrating metro within windows…..

    Just think of a situation where we are welcomed with the same desktop. We see a live tile on the right corner of our desktop which when clicked will open the metro world and that too witing a window. It will preserve the old start menu, provide better integration and will be felt like one…

    I think it will solve problem of many of us if they adopt such a design.

    What do you all think about it…..?

  34. Off topic says:

    Windows Mobility Center is useless now, just remove it.

  35. adam says:

    @HARSH RAJ

    thats really a fantastic idea but will microsoft think over such a change….

  36. @Larry Osterman

    Thank you for sharing that with us. Seems that your teams harmonizes with each other pretty well. I am glad about having installed one of the most robust Windows versions ever; it appears to be that said Windows engineering system is doing its job well.

    @Steven Sinofsky

    Is there going to be another forum for suggesting improvements and reporting errors for the Windows Customer Preview as there was for the Developer Preview?

    If not, I would like to mention some issues here. 😀

    1 Maybe my Laptop (DELL Inspiron 9400) is too slow but I cannot launch PinballFx2. The flash screen disappears after a certain time period but the app never loads entirely; even after bringing the flash screen back to the foreground for a while.

    2 Why can't we pin every type of object we'd like to the Start screen? I am especially referring to files like *.txt, *.exe etc.

    3 Many people complain of the waste of the screen real estate. Will there be a way of arranging more than 2 Metro style apps on the screen at once (by splitting the screen several times)? I believe this could drive enterprise apps, which are currently mere Desktop apps, to the Metro style experience.

    And last but not least — and perhaps most important:

    4 For me as an early adopter and computer scientist, it won't be challenging to adapt to Windows 8. Nevertheless, how do you plan to introduce the radical changes and improvements made in Win8 and promote the ideas behind it to the non-tech-savvy users. How do you intend to explain the necessity for modification to the average Joe that sticks to Windows XP and now is planning to upgrade? I think this issue requires a lot of sensitivity; if you at least care about those people.

  37. w3force says:

    @HARSH RAJ with in few months time most of the desktop apps will be ported to metro and we will visit desktop less frequent. Desktop is just a stopgap. It’s not a great idea to merge desktop with metro. Metro is the future…

  38. @Post:

    Are you serious?! Who cares the story of this bunch of ******, and what they think? We care about the product and what you've done with it. Instead of writing stories you should answer those sensitive questions. Instead of writing stories you should listen to users feedback, and improve your

  39. Jonathan says:

    InfoWorld’s J. Peter Bruzzese, a steadfast Microsoft loyalist, finds himself horrified by Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    "I was already familiar with the Windows 8 Developer Preview, but the changes Microsoft described in the Consumer Preview sounded truly exciting. I must have been among the first to download and install the new OS.

    To say that the experience was disheartening is an understatement. Those who read my Enterprise Windows blog know I'm a staunch Microsoft defender. But based on the Consumer Preview, I have a new name for Windows 8: Windows Frankenstein."

    "Many of the extended screen designs rely on left-to-right scrolling because people with tablets are accustomed to swiping their fingers from right to left in a "turn the page" gesture. For example, you browse the new Microsoft Market (which opened yesterday) in this manner. With a touchscreen, this is easy, but with a mouse, it isn't comfortable at all. You scroll from top to bottom with a mouse, not side to side.

    These are fundamental UI problems. Everyone knew it would be a tall order to combine Metro with the Windows desktop in an elegant way. What I've seen so far is barely usable."

    "Windows 8 Consumer Preview is more than a disappointment — it creates a serious situation for Microsoft. I've been so loyal to Microsoft over the years that I regularly receive nasty comments from readers accusing me of being paid by Redmond. So when I'm unhappy and willing to say it, it's time for 'Softies to listen.

    There's still time between now and the RTM of Windows 8. Will anything really change between now and then? It had better."

    http://www.infoworld.com/…/microsoft…87749

  40. ReMark says:

    @w3force:

    if the future is a retarded dual-tasking desktop environment, aw sorry, I'm going to mac os. Faggy, but at least productive.

    I remember an old photo (2 years ago?) with Sinofsky with his personal macbook/imac…  uh uh uh

  41. @w3force: Yeah, for your kind of good for nothings, who's never done any serious job on their PC instead of posting s**t on FB or Twitter, and play cut the rope all day long. You're right! Desktop is just a stopgap for you and your kind.

  42. Cristian H. says:

    @emh…-.- Because it`s a change. Like when changing from Windows 3.x to 95. It has to be done.

    Also, you still have it down there.

    -The Metro Start is ok for your main apps

    -Task Bar holds apps that you use 90% of the time

    -The Apps Tile is great to see all of your apps at a glance.

    I was a skeptic, now I can`t go back! 😉

  43. Harsh Raj says:

    @pretty sure and @w3force

    Ps is absolutely right….

    We cant imagine computing without desktop unless we dont mean it for playing ''cut the rope''

  44. Pol says:

    @Arturo

    You're just a fanboy.

  45. Pol says:

    @Arturo

    " times are changing, and the future is promesing."

    Child… How old are you.

  46. w3force says:

    @Harsh Raj and @pretty sure.. windows 8 metro start screen looks perfect for me with my dual monitor environment with blend vs2010 and other desktop application running and I can close the  metro app much faster than desktop app.  Also it brings lot of mobile goodness to the desktop environment..

  47. Pol says:

    @Arturo

    You know what comes with "futurology" and fanaticism?   This….

    http://www.youtube.com/watch

    There is you future…

  48. LeoStorm85 says:

    Let's go with the last refinements…you are doing a great job guys!!

  49. Bob says:

    The market will ultimately decide about radical change.

    How is that Phone 7 thing doing for you again, Microsoft?

  50. Pol says:

    @Arturo

    Oh look the future, augmented reality!, useless! have you ever read Orwell's 1984, have you ever read Philosophy? to understand how people think abuot the future, have you ever read about Timeless Design? Read about Dieter Rams, you fanboy, all the things I see on that video are OLD ideas just reimagined, you still having a child imagination. Get real!.

  51. Pol says:

    @Arturo

    Oh look the future, augmented reality!, useless! have you ever read Orwell's 1984, have you ever read Philosophy? to understand how people think abuot the future, have you ever read about Timeless Design? Read about Dieter Rams, you fanboy, all the things I see on that video are OLD ideas just reimagined, you still having a child imagination. Get real!.

  52. I predict windows 8 will sell more than ipad and   ios combined in the first 6 months.

  53. --- says:

    @nana688

    Who are you, Nostradamus?

  54. -- says:

    I predict windows 8 will suck, like vista, then we have to wait Windows 9.

  55. yes I am, keep dreaming guys .

  56. -- says:

    @nana688

    "Whether or not Microsoft's new OS becomes a success is not up to you, or Thurrott, or Sinofsky, it is up to the masses of consumers and businesses who decide whether or not they want this new OS."

  57. It's nice to meet some of the people who are developing Windows 8.  I'm sure they're very nice people, and extremely smart too.  It's not the engineers who are goofing up Windows 8 but rather the poor vision of the folks in management who set W8's goals without considering faithful users out there who don't want to play the tablet/light duty game. That is the issue that is giving rise to all the "next Vista" talk.

  58. Stephen Kellett says:

    "We're proud of the fact that the diversity on our own team reflects the diversity of the customers using Windows around the world."

    It's such a shame that you are proud of this diversity of your customers but you are choosing to force a significant chunk of us into working in a way we don't want to work. We want and need a start menu. Not a start screen. We want and need a consistent look and feel. If I'm in the desktop I never want to see Metro. If I'm in Metro I never want to see the desktop. Unless I specifically request to change to Metro from the Desktop or vice versa.

    Its also a shame that you are proud of your work and yet none of the team ever responds to criticisms of the Desktop/Metro/Start Menu/Start Screen issue. Complete silence. Hardly shows that you are listening. That is something to be ashamed of. Smacks of dicatorship, where everything in North Korea is just fine and dandy because "The Great Leader" says so.

    Its also interesting that despite all the wonderful changes under the hood and to utilities like Task Manager that no one is focussed on those changes. The reason is simple. The changes are great, but the really important thing is the ability (and freedom) to work in an efficient and effective manner. By removing the Start Menu you are preventing that. And that is why you are getting so much flak.

    Its astounding that given the volume of negative feedback from professionals with serious interests in your success (and serious interests in approving or disapproving budgets) that you are ignoring our feedback and pandering to the consumer masses that don't have any vested interests in your success at all. One poster on here said he controlled the budget approval for 7000 enterprise machines. That is 7000 x $250 -> $1.75 million. Considering the fraction of people that post to the MSDN blogs much be in the fractions of 1% and he is not going to be an isolated example, you are going to take a serious hit if you ignore him. How many Windows 8 start/home premiums do you have to sell to get close to that figure (and then repurchase 3 years later for your enterprise deals).

    Quite. You've got a problem. Please fix it. We want Windows 8 to succeed. No seamless desktop experience, no start menu -> failure.

  59. JGodo says:

    @nana688

    I almost agree with you… I don´t think it will sell more than iPad in 6 months, but I think it will sell quite well… in TABLET world. In desktop I think it will not sell so well, as it is no more than a win7 with an – unconfortable with mouse – touch interface. I don´t like win8 in desktop, but this is the first time I consider buying a tablet to replace my portable labtop, where I can fin a touch friendly interface plus a full desktop OS usable when I plug-in to it a keyboard and a mouse. I have not interest at all in metro apps working under mouse and keyboard configuration, that´s silly, but the combination ot the two worlds in convertible tablets is a winner and have no competence right now. We need to face this. Win8 is a tablet OS. Use in it a tablet and love it and keep your win7 for your desktops. That´s all.

  60. capter says:

    I want Windows with "Windows"…and multi-tasking (and not single/dual tasking as it is now).

  61. Tay says:

    @Stephen Kellett: "It's such a shame that you are proud of this diversity of your customers but you are choosing to force a significant chunk of us into working in a way we don't want to work. We want and need a start menu. Not a start screen."

    With respect: I wish the vocal but small minority of obstructionists like yourself would stop being so egocentric and trying to force everyone else to stay in the past for the petty reason that you can't bear to use a Start Screen instead of a Start Menu, even when Sinofsky devoted an entire blog post to carefully explaining how the Start Screen works faster and better than the Start Menu for a vast majority of users:

    blogs.msdn.com/…/reflecting-on-your-comments-on-the-start-screen.aspx

    Positioning the Start Screen as a replacement for the Start Menu and removing the Start Menu entirely is a very small way to nudge users toward learning how to use Metro–otherwise there would be so much inertia that many users would refuse to learn anything new and Metro adoption would take far longer than Microsoft (and their 3rd-party development partners who are slaving away as we speak to port every kind of software imaginable to WinRT/Metro) wants it to take. After all, why learn something new if you can just keep working exactly as you did before? The Start Screen replacing the Start Menu is Metro's one small foot-in-the-door to get all the set-in-their-ways people who would otherwise just turn Metro off if they could to learn to accept it. This is a deeply necessary phase in the gradual transition from the 20-year-old sometimes inconsistent and unguided set of bits and pieces that is current Windows, toward shiny new Metro and WinRT.

    And Microsoft is being phenomenally nice and indulgent and coddling about this transition. Replacing the Start Menu with the Start Screen is basically the least intrusive way they can nudge the userbase toward learning about and accepting Metro. If this were _any other company_–especially if this were Apple–they'd have shoved Metro down the users' throats in aggressive ways like deliberately removing major features from the classic desktop, cutting off new development for the old environment almost entirely, abandoning sales and support for the old platform, etc. Microsoft is being much easier on everyone and basically letting users and developers decide whether and how and when to transition themselves, with only one tiny change to give Metro a little bit of support. They're practically giving the userbase a big reassuring hug and guaranteeing them that they can continue doing whatever they want to however they want to do it in the existing Windows environment for the indefinite future, and in return a vocal minority of selfish and shortsighted people in that userbase are spitting in Microsoft's face and yelling "FRAK YOU FOR CHANGING ONE TINY THING!"

  62. NNCOLOMBIA says:

    Hello windows 8 team, I want to say and reiterate the sudden change of user interfaces to Metro Aero, I hope you are working on it. Leaving a desktop interfaces more like what is the philosophy Metro.

    I also tell them not to forget the SPANISH please send an update to the Consumer Preview can be translated into Spanish.

    Thanks and hopefully can ignore my comments and those of all who write in this blog.

  63. Nuh says:

    No matter what happens with Windows 8 with or without Metro for desktops, there will be third party software to remove Metro, to add the start menu, and to install elegants Visual Styles.

  64. SteveOZ says:

    How about giving users a choice of charm placement (left, right, top, bottom) and a choice to hide or un-hide the charm-bar?

    Same for the "Start" button (that is hidden when you mouse to the bottom left corner.

    Steve

    PS: I love Windows 8!

  65. I-am-not-a-windows-8-fanboy says:

    What about telling the people if You will force that BS named MetroUI on to desktop computers – or not ? You still don't answer negative questions. Is that the way Microsoft will continue to work when it comes to customer care ? "If You don't like it don't bother ask us…..". It is really a pathetic way to treat long time customers and VIP's. But it is up to You. If You continue that way You should start to look for another job !!!!

  66. Windows 8 lover says:

    Amazing website for getting information on windows 8.

    http://www.microsoftwindowseight.com

  67. Craig says:

    I'm reading this in IE10. It would be much easier if I could double-click to zoom with my mouse the way you can double-tap with your fingers

  68. Piculin says:

    I bothered to google "windows 8 feedback" and got to this blog, so i could tell you guys loud and clear: BRING BACK THE FRIGGING START MENU

  69. Quoc Cao says:

    Three more years to go for Innovating Windows 9's blog

  70. Noel says:

    In IE10 desktop mode – can't bring out the Charms, Start, and multitasker (all mouse corner functions) when in fullscreen mode.

  71. NoXAML says:

    Nice to see WinDiv devs have embraced XAML/C# – NOT. I guess the rumors of the infighting between WinDiv and DevDiv were true after all. Nice to know all of the fighting resulted in this mess that is W8 (from a developer's perspective). Good job Microsoft! You should be proud of yourselves!

  72. LarryOsterman says:

    @NoXAML: Windows developers write code in lots of different computer languages.  Some of them write managed code in C#, others write unmanaged code in C++ and still others write in C.  Each language has positives and negatives, and Windows developers write in the most appropriate language for the scenario on which they're working.  In this release, I've written C, C++ and C# code, depending on what I was working on (although admittedly I didn't write much C code).

  73. jellyfish says:

    Old habits die hard, abandoning the start menu altogether will discourage a lot of PC users. Microsoft is being rather forceful trying to force people to get accustomed to pinning apps on the taskbar. On top of that, the biggest charm of the start screen for me is probably the live tiles, which I consider to work like gadgets. Aside from that, I believe the start screen is much less useful than the usual start menu for PC users.

    At this point, even if Windows 8 will just be a performance & stability upgrade for Windows 7, I would still like it. However, forcing Metro, which is just really inconvenient without touch, will discourage me from upgrading anytime soon.

  74. B8Blog says:

    @Noel  — by design (for compatibility) all full screen desktop apps have this property.  You can restore the desktop app or use the keyboard shortcuts.

  75. Alex says:

    What is all this complaining about the dictatorial approach of Microsoft these days with regards to Windows Phone and now Windows 8? Nobody complained about Steve Jobs' ramming through his vision down everyone's throat because he made billions of dollars. So shall it be with Windows 8. So say we all.

  76. To @Alex says:

    @Alex

    People who complains about Jobs way to do things are microsfot or linux clients/users. If Microsofts goes the Jobs way, then complainers will be only linux clients… you know. Anyway Jobs never planed changing the full desktop OS for a dumbed touch OS in productivity scenarios. That´s silly and pro people will not accept that. And no, is not like moving from DOS to win95 or something like that. In every old microsoft OS jump microsoft was offering more functionality. But desktop OS to metro OS ( not talking about the metro start as replacement of the start menu here but the long plan to move all to metro ) is a really big loss of ( basic ) funcionality, and that´s the main problem. That had never happend before in the windows history. But may be I´m mistaken and thats not the plan. If metro is just for touch systems, and they don´t plan to remove the powerfull desktop but keep working in a simbiotic mode, then all is ok. Or even if they give metro the real power of the desktop, allowing metro windows when mouse is detected, full explorer, and so on… then it would be also ok. But this seems is not the case in the long run so a post talking about all this would be very wellcome to calm people.

  77. Sarvesh says:

    Great job Microsoft…Windows Consumer Preview is Awesome..

    Keep the good work on..

  78. Pax says:

    @Tay.

    Your arguments are flawed (it least in my view…)

    "With respect: I wish the vocal but small minority of obstructionists like yourself would stop being so egocentric and trying to force everyone else to stay in the past…"

    -> No! Metro forces us to use it. We are not forcing you to NOT use it. If it were optional you would still be able to play Cut The Rope and Angrybirds until your eyes bleed… Feel free to not use the StartMenu if you don't like it. See? Choice is the way to go.

    "Positioning the Start Screen as a replacement for the Start Menu and removing the Start Menu entirely is a very small way to nudge users toward learning how to use Metro–otherwise there would be so much inertia that many users would refuse to learn anything new and Metro adoption would take far longer"

    -> That is in no way a "small step". That's a huge leap. One which easily could have been made be retaining the StartMenu. That way, we could switch to Metro if we felt like it, or we could switch to Desktop to get work done.

    If they want "stubborn" people like us (we who do not approve) to embrace Metro, force feeding us it is not the way to go.

    If you feel the need to make such a radical change, then start by using "Metro in Windows" and not "Windows in Metro"…

  79. BryonG says:

    We like what you have done so far(Go Windows Team!!). But our concern is the basic and intermediate users, and some advance users, the new UI merger not metro but the merger is not necessary (it results in user confusion), but the technology behind it is necessary. Solution: simple Operating System UI Main Navigation Structure (OSMUINS) not a merger into one main window environment.

    http://www.flickr.com/…/6810601298

    http://www.flickr.com/…/6810601120

    The UI navigation structure will be based on the windows logo (4 windows), each sub window is a window or portal into an environment based on the function and technology behind it. This will it make very easy for the user (basic, between and expert) to figure out what’s going on and how to use the OS based on an obvious clear UI structure not mixed but clear environments. The metro desktop should work exactly like the classic desktop to avoid confusion and learning curve, all the functionalities, left click, windowing of open apps, full screen view at user choice etc accept that some tiles should have the ability to be fixed relative to the screen or background. Swiping out an app is not as effective has having a close X button on the top right corner, which should include auto snap on the top right corner that will automatically snap the app into position to view besides another app.

    To have Metro adopted you must have the same functions, features, human to device input procedures  (including better device to human output mechanisms)and capabilities as classic win32 desktop to avoid confusion and a learning curve, basically it should be the actual classic desktop running on new technology (WinRT) and touch friendly that’s all you need to do. Dont make desktop look like mere app because this what users have known for years as the main work environment at the moment.

    The 4 windows concept will allow you to add more windows in future when new technology has to be part of windows OS or u simply found a better way to do something and don’t want to disrupt the other environment, you can simple add another windows environment. This Structure sets the trend for all future technology with minimum disruptions and proper depreciation of older technology.

    The start button (which is seems to be removed but bottom corner says otherwise) should have the following list;  Metro/classic desktop (depending on the desktop environment you are in), help and support, Control panel, virtual desktop, Power settings.  The share button should not be part of the OS navigation list it should be part of the app in its tools menu bar. Yes you have done a few of this but this needs to on the charms menu so its accessible in any environment.

    The metro UI is flat, and that’s not good for the long term usage, the only solution to this is to apply shadows to the charms menu, metro bar, application bar, the maybe tiles and other. The reason behind is due the fact that users live in a 3D world, so its necessary to have some form 3D in the UI even though if its subtle it will help adopted to it more easily.

    One thing  we want is MSFT to partner with civil engineering and architecture companies to build connected homes (affordable on new and installed on old building), all systems in one place and be viewed and control from the windows device (pc. Tablet, phone etc) e.g home electricity management software, air conditioning management software, air purifying systems, entertainment management system, etc also you include software services, for health, legal advisory, financial advisory etc straight into the home management system. This possible with today’s technology but tech company seem not to be working hard at bringing this to market rather they focusing on single devices rather than a network of devices and the human user. We know you have concepts of this idea but people want it today don’t allow other tech companies to get ahead and claim invention to the media and push msft out of the market, msft must lead it.

  80. Angus Glashier says:

    For fifteen years I built business software exclusively on Windows.

    The app I'm currently building will only run on OS X.

    You blew it Microsoft. Nice knowing ya! Let me know how that kindergarten collage user interface works out for ya.

  81. I am sorry to say but user feedback is not being taken into account for Windows 8 to the extent it should be. You show us a handful of examples where you "listened" to feedback and try to convince users that you are listening to majority but that's not the case – there are numerous examples but best example would the Start Menu. Microsoft is just building a different product, I see many improvements, I see some huge regressions in functionality, usability and design and you are going to ship it as it is saying it's "By design". I don't see Windows 8 as a wholly improved product over Windows 7 in all areas.

    There is a problem at Microsoft. The problem is that we can't even get minor bugs rapidly fixed or little design changes made for the better even if a particular issue is affecting hundreds of thousands of customers. The configurability, customizability and overall control over the behavior of the Windows product is reducing by each release. Sure, app backward compatibility of Windows 8 is great, but backward compatibility of existing features working well and delivering a complete cohesive end-to-end UX is no longer happening‏. Existing PC customers aren't important to Microsoft any more and their comments on this blog don't matter. You say they matter only to appease us but your actions and work on the product (from Developer Preview to Consumer Preview) doesn't reflect that to the extent it should be reflecting. ***You should be listening to our feedback on user interface and design more than anything else because usability is the most important aspect of Windows.*** Given the importance of what desktop users are asking you to do, you are merely ignoring all of it. I see decisions entirely based on internal company discussions or based entirely on telemetry. Even Windows Vista was better in this respect because Microsoft showed a commitment to backward compatibility of UI and feature design. This is not the Windows I loved. I am one of the biggest enthusiast users who uses the full breadth of the Windows product and all its obscure little features and in Windows 8 I am being served a replacement product that doesn't do things as well as its predecessor. You need to fix many many things yet, as of now I would rate Windows 8 as alpha quality.

    But I am not going to give up on sending feedback as Windows will forever be my passion. Please stop removing features based on telemetry showing you nobody used them and please reinstate the Start Menu. That is not how Windows was designed over the years. It had an amazing level of backward compatibility of features and UI design.

  82. Stefano says:

    Update on (Italian) Touch Keyboard: keeping pressed the normal vowels all related accented letters appear. This needs to be said somewhere, people can't discover things by themselves. Create a user's guide with all these new things and keyboard shortcuts and other things new for Windows 8. Hints and tips.

  83. Maggie Babe says:

    The Start Menu in the Desktop must remain the same as in Windows 7 with all programs listed as in Windows 7, listen to us please. New Logo is OK instead of the Orb but that Menu must remain, please listen to what people say, please.

  84. Stefan says:

    Yesterday i let my friend, a non-skilled computeruser. try Windows 8. I didn't say anything. It took him 10 minutes to reach following conclusion:"Windows 8 suck !".

    .

    How will someone that never have used Windows 8 before understand how it works ? Same goes for skilled people that never have used it. How will they know how they should do ?

    .

    And to all You Windows 8 fanboys here, stop nag about there is nothing wrong with Windows 8. I just don't believe You. You as well as i must understand when You have to make some settings in the classic desktop and other in Metro it will not work very well on a desktop computer. I must also add the taste is different from person to person, but it seem that You Windows 8 fanboys don't understand that.

    .

    Windows 8 in my personal opinion is that it is a useless operatingsystem if You want to be able to work fast as You have done in prev versions, at least until Windows 7. I will stay with my 2000, XP and Vista, i am very satisfied with them, except some bugs in Vista that Microsoft still don't have fixed even if a lot of people have complained. That show how Microsoft see their customer….not at all. It is also seen here on this blog where the dev team ignore all negative comments. I can only say good luck, but i think they will have to find new jobs when Windows 8 flop around the world.

  85. Judith says:

    Suggestion for Semantic Zoom

    In Semantic Zoom View, please let us have an option and gesture that will unpin a group of tiles.

    (Maybe the same gesture for closing metro style apps)

  86. Gilberto says:

    In my opinion it is missing a little more boldness, the Metro interface is definitely superior to competitors and a good Control Panel would give the required control Metro style to the user about the settings of tablets, and PC 's. Well that's not how Microsoft thinks; it understands that the ecosystem has to have the legacy desktop what to many critics creates a mixture of styles of interface that is a true Frankenstein.

    I honestly think we should only have legacy App's and all open in full screen (just change some API's that deal with the control of window to avoid problems), would be the start screen and the system would run all Metro in full screen mode, the App's Metro (already are) and the App's Desktop (except when the App opens a second configuration screen on herself or an installation wizard).

    What I see today are critical and more criticism stemming from this mix of interfaces (Desktop and Metro) and why? Because people can't win the desktop paradigm, they want the desktop as they always used. Have internet back wide tip to the Start button on the desktop, Stardock  developed a free tool called Start 8 to restore the desktop Start button.

    At least one system without this legacy desktop and only with legacy App's would give the feeling of something new in the world of PC 's, the way it is only serves to receive criticism that does not have the Start button and so it goes. Whether it's for change we change of time and expect the slow and gradual migration of desktop app's for the Metro world, meanwhile they that run in full screen obligatorily.

    If you think my position too radical or that I'm a crazy, I just have to tell you, "the new is innovative and to be innovative needs boldness, what is missing to Windows 8 is the boldness to get rid of the desktop".

  87. OMG! says:

    @Gilberto

    You know that for many people to do their work they need way more than 2 apps opened and visible at the same time, and moving it arround is not only for fun, but also a must to get their job done, right? Innovative is not lossing functionality. Innovative would be to design a real window system that can be easily and nicely used with touch and mouse in every device. That would be awesome, but sure, that is difficult. To remove basic functionality so you can say your OS is super touchable is not innovative, is dumb. Do you want an all full screen OS? Then I would like to know what kind of work you do in your system… play? facebook? something else?. If you really need an all full screen OS then I suggest you to install MS DOS, It´s the same. A good OS ( not a consumer console like the iPad ) is about options, you want your apps in windows? you can, you want your apps full screen?, you can. You want some apps fullscreen in some monitor and some other in windows in other monitor? You can. Remove basic options and you will have every pro running away of that retro monster, and it can´t be other way as they need to work. Is not about gradual migration or not accepting the new, is about not loosing functionality that is proven to work wonderfull, and to feel that all full screen is not new at all. We already had that a lot of years ago and surely a lot of people don´t want to return there again. Mandatory full screen limits a lot and is not betther in any way.

    Microsoft should let Metro as the consumer touch UI and desktop as the profesional productivity UI. Otherway they are going to commit suicide, and they would deserve it.

  88. Wack0 says:

    hmm, really win8 needs a new Disk Cleanup/cleanmgr. has its UI even changed since win98 ?!

  89. ReMark says:

    @Wack0

    Like the power management dialog (where you can set display dim etc…), it isn't resizable and it's a pain using it…

    Another hint for the APPS SCREEN:

    http://imgur.com/Ef0KJ

  90. karl says:

    Stefan,

    I hope that ms now learns by the hard way (bad selling of w8) who is the boss : the customer. But i doubt, they really are resistant.

    As long as there are fanboys who do not know what work on the computer is ……. and as long as the Linux guys do not know how to bundle the efforts instead of showing how "skinfull" they are in complicating and differentiating things ….

  91. karl says:

    Stefan,

    I hope that ms now learns by the hard way (bad selling of w8) who is the boss : the customer. But i doubt, they really are resistant.

    As long as there are fanboys who do not know what work on the computer is ……. and as long as the Linux guys do not know how to bundle the efforts instead of showing how "skillfull" they are in complicating and differentiating things ….

  92. OMG what a bunch of cry babies.

    For every body that doesn't like change go and get this:

    http://www.addictivetips.com/…/start8-adds-metro-start-menu-in-windows-8

    and leave the rest of use, that do like the new start screen, alone.

    Yet another proof that Windows is so flexible that you can do your own start menu.

  93. @Robertf1: Yet another proof that ms fanboys is so stupid and brainwashed. Go play cut the rope!

  94. @WindowsTeam.

    I was wondering, in a multi screen environement, if it would be possible to keep the start screen visible at all times unless a window from the desktop, that is positionned in the same screen as the start screen, becomes active. I have three screens at home and I can see myself leaving the start screen open on one of them while I'm using the other two.  If I move a window on top of the start screen then it would disappear until I bring it back.  But more importanly it would remain there even if I'm using other desktop apps on the other screens.

    Can't wait for the final release.

  95. ReMark says:

    Metro Start Menu, third parts are doing what users want 😀

  96. GregH says:

    @Prettysure

    We’re not brainwashed – you are just negative about something that is 2 – 3 times better than a crappy little pop up start menu – the whole point is that you get full screen apps making Windows competitive in that space rather than having a weirdo iPad or Android – desktop is fundamentally unchanged and you can work there interrupted with better performance and features to explore, get a life- no doubt your using Vista or XP too.

  97. GregH says:

    "desktop is fundamentally unchanged and you can work there uninterrupted with better performance and features to explore."

  98. Windows7 says:

    This is just laughable. I just tried an in-place upgrade from Windows 7 SP1 to Metro (sorry, I just can't all it Windows) and when the install was complete, Windows Updates now refers to: winbeta.update.microsoft.com/…/vistadefault.aspx which directs the user to use the Start menu.

  99. Frenz says:

    Gregh: I have no problem with Windows getting competetive against Android and iOS – actually, I look rather forward to that. But I _DO_ have a problem with the philosophy that something as simple as an app launcher have to run full screen on my 30" 2560×1440 monitors – having something come on top of all my work, just for launching an app, is a mental context switch I would rather be without! And yes, I bought these monitors to have as many windowed applications visible AT THE SAME TIME, because it dramatically increases my work flow.

    Insisting that the future consists of fullscreen Metro applications is ridiculous from a business / productivity point of view. But I do recognize that the average _consumer_ is probably gonna love it, too bad I don't fall into that category.

    And yes, I am a BIG MS fan boy – I would LOVE to see Microsoft succeed with their business (Because that would help me succeed with mine) and that's why we (the professional community) are trying hard to make Microsoft see their mistake, so there's a chance this can be addressed before the final release.

    All we ask for is a little bit of flexibility here, a little bit of choice, instead of Microsoft treating everyone as just "consumers".

    I guess "Prettysure" feels much the same way.

  100. karl says:

    GregH: crappy little pop up startmenu?? But in this startmenu you have much more information in a much more accessible way:

    Try to find a program out of hundreds in this startmenu, and then in the apps monster screen (just by scrolling), do so some days,

    i hope your eyes do not get worse.

    In this "crappy" thing you have the pinned progs, the prog folders, the control panel, the power and user options and some other

    nice things. In Metro you need google maps , the important things in to many different locations.

  101. @GregH: Oh boy! Have you realize that it's not just me? Have you realized that you and your opinion is the minority here. I understand that you as a need for speed and cut the rope player, and facebook enthusiast is better like start screen, because you have no taste, and your decision based on emotion and not based on common sense.

    Tell me what are you doing sitting in front of your crappy full screen sh*t? Playing cut the rope? Watching your photos? Watching the weather forecast tile? lol Or launch applications that takes you to desktop? Or keep removing junk icons after an application installed. Or enjoying the ugly color and design?

    It's okay that you're hungry and eat all those bullsh*t what sinovsky put in front of you, but not everyone is so dumb than you are.

  102. Bob says:

    People don't like Windows 8. PERIOD.

  103. Kil says:

    80% of the comments here are negative experience, Windows 8 is a fiasco. Give us a real Os.

  104. I'm not too thrilled with the lack of attention given to Windows Media Center.  I use it as the DVR solution for my entire house and I hope Microsoft isn't abandoning it.  It's a great product but poorly marketed.  None of my Windows friends know of its existence or capabilities.  

    That said, I'd like to report a bug.  The indexing system in Windows Media Center appears to be broken.  When I search for shows to record, the message at the bottom says that "Indexing is in progress and results may be incomplete" even though I installed the Consumer Preview last week.  After researching the issue, I noticed that "mediaCenterDataStore.db" is missing from %SYSTEMDRIVE%ProgramDataMicrosofteHome

  105. Ulrike Irmler says:

    @mvadu – I work on the Windows content team.  We're still building the docs for Windows 8–samples, guidance and reference. If you want to get in touch via the contact form: blogs.msdn.com/…/contact.aspx, I'd love to get specifics from you, so I can address them.  Ulrike

  106. Mark says:

    Chris and Mohammed – thanks for sharing a few minutes with us. I find it fascinating to get at least a glimpse into the world of a massive programming project like Windows. I would have loved to hear more about how milestones are done and testing occues but thats just the Project Manager in me.

  107. Orlando says:

    @ Steven Sinofsky

    With regard to the colors of the Metro interface, they had only sought best combinations made by professionals in Adobe Kuler.

    kuler.adobe.com

    Colors are more elegant, clean, bright, serious.

  108. Orlando says:

    @ Steven Sinofsky

    Mr Sinofsky, why is that does not respond to most comments that are problems related to the negative experience to Windows 8.

    Enthusiasts of Windows 8 problem is that their passions can't them see clearly the fundamental problems, passions lead sooner or later to the irrationality, the majority here demands only slight improvements, eliminating the Metro interface is one of them, it is so simple, but apparently too complicated for you to understand it.

  109. Orlando says:

    @ Steven Sinofsky

    Mr Sinofsky, why is that does not respond to most comments that are problems related to the negative experience to Windows 8.

    Enthusiasts of Windows 8 problem is that their passions can't them see clearly the fundamental problems, passions lead sooner or later to the irrationality, the majority here demands only slight improvements, eliminating the Metro interface is one of them, it is so simple, but apparently too complicated for you to understand it.

  110. Jonathan says:

    They don't have to elimiante Metro, they just need to put some bloody effort into making it mesh with the desktop, properly.

  111. mayhemm88 says:

    I found a huge bug… If I enable Hyper-V from the programs and features menu. the entire OS crashes! It will not boot up after installing Hyper-V. it just sits at the beta fish screen FOREVER!

    Also, please bring back the windows 7 style start menu/button for desktop users and give an option to boot into the desktop as the default interface.  Metro is great for relaxing, checking e-mail etc, but is not so great for anything requiring "real work". It is also jarring to have the full screen menu in your face whenever you need to launch an app. And the hotspots don't work period on multi-monitor setups.

    Please fix and windows 8 will be a great OS!!!

  112. karl says:

    Jonathan : That's the point. Metro and Vista/Win7 style, without registry hack or rename the former shsxs.dll — on the fly, bye option

    in the start orb properties.

  113. karl says:

    Jonathan : That's the point. Metro and Vista/Win7 style, without registry hack or rename the former shsxs.dll — on the fly,

    by an option in the start orb properties.

  114. Paulo says:

    I have a suggestion, this may be a little bit off-topic

    It would be great to have an option for the tiles directing to "old desktop" programs, to automatically return to the start screen after closing the program without stoping by the old desktop, this could be useful for full screen old programs

    For example, i have a tile to open the game Plants vs Zombies, which runs on the old desktop in full screen, when i close the game, i would like to return to the start screen rather than the desktop. This could be customizable individually for every "old program" tile

    This would give more consistency to all the environment, given that, in my example, Plants vs Zombies would feel just like a metro style app

    Sorry for the bad english

  115. Lol says:

    Look at this Tom Waits made a video review here… haha

    http://www.youtube.com/watch

  116. Thierry says:

    Please fix the file copying (calculating) hang/lag issue

  117. John says:

    @Orlando & @Jonathan

    How to state it simply… I would highly doubt that Metro would go anywhere else anytime soon…

    It has been stated that Windows 8 is a major version of windows in the same way as Windows 95 was in its time, radical Core/APIs changes, radical interface changes, but, as in 95, it also include a way to work with existing application (the desktop in windows 8)

    Metro (which is really just a set of UI design guidelines) is the inspiration for the new Windows UI, but Windows 8 is much more than that… but even if we don't take the rest into account, new Windows UI is “new” and when someone decide to start something over he don’t have to make it look like or make it blend properly with “old” stuff.

    The fact that you can't foresee where Microsoft is heading with their plans and visions doesn't mean they are all wrong…

    The more I use the CP, the more I get used to it = the more I understand where they come from and where they are heading. So my suggestion is use it for… well, at least a few days if not a few weeks and really try to accustom to it. If even then the new UI and paradigms "prevent" you from having your work done, only then your critics will make any sense.

    For those that keep saying keep metro only for tablet and all and all, can’t you at least consider that what Microsoft is aiming for in the end, among other thing, is to allow developers that make apps for windows 8 (using WinRT obviously) to only have to write it once and all systems running Windows 8 (be it desktop, laptop, tablet and eventually phone and other form factor) will work. No more porting. That in itself is very good news. Other good things: when using WinRT application model, developer don’t have to take care of resolution or to handle resizing appropriately. The search and share charms also take care of a big chunk of work most developers would normally have to work on. When “well-crafted” apps (read apps that require more than a week to complete) will start showing on the store, Metro, as you all call it, will really start to shine.

    It’s not a matter of being fanboy or not, it’s just plain common sense. Use it, it’s good for you.

    For those who don’t know it yet, take a look at that website (http://www.winsupersite.com/) the guy know an interesting thing or two about Windows 8. (multiple articles have been written since Feb. 29)

  118. Pax says:

    @John.

    Going from Win 3.11 to Win 95 was not as big a change as this.

    Yes, the entire desktop was given a major overhaul, but whether you ran 16bit applications or 32bit applications, you were still on the same desktop. This is most definitely not the case here.

    But besides that, then what you say makes very good sense.

    And they should indeed keep the Metro interface.

    The Metro interface gives a lot of opportunities.

    I just wish that would still keep the good old start menu. That way, I could concentrate on the desktop, and only the desktop, when I need to work and I could concentrate on Metro and only Metro when I need that.

    At least in the beginning, where most of the apps are fun and games.

    When more and more business apps become "metro-fied" it will make more sense to further combine the two.

    But at the moment, I'm having a hard time seeing Photoshop, Outlook, Visual Studio etc. in the Metro environment, which means that I (and propably many others) will use the desktop most of the time. That is why we want a start menu that doesn't break the workflow and/or hides our work.

    And even if (and I stretch the "if") Photoshop, VS etc. should be converted to Metro apps, I doubt I would use them, since Metro is not about multitasking. Only being able to see one window (and a very small one to the side) is not enough for a proper overview.

    To summarize:

    Metro is great. The desktop is great.

    But each is designed and optimized for different things. Don't try to mix oranges and apples.

    I have no doubt, that the whole point of the exercise is to force the users to use Metro, because they are scared that, given the choice, no one would use it. But I think that is the wrong way to go about it. Give people a choice between the two interfaces. When quality content begins to arrive to Metro, people will automatically start to use more and more.

    Motivation instead of punishment.

  119. JGodo says:

    @John

    I really understand where Microsoft is going with metro. I was a firm supporter of a unified OS along all devices, but not at the cost of productivity, I have been using metro, and I alredy tell you this: No way that path for me, not for a lot of people that use his os for more than facebok or play. It has some great technical concepts behind, but the full screen paradigm is a complete no way, a big steep backwards to the MSDOS era and the best way to lose quicly a lot of users. Sure you will can do work with a mandatory full screen when you have propper apps, but sure also you can´t do it comfortable enought. Have you tryed to manage with metro extremely large volume of files? How can you have 5 reference images from different sources, as web and HD, opened as you want while you are drawing a matepaint in hypotetical future full screen metro photoshop? How do you think adobe is going to set an interface as capable an fast as the one they have now touch friendly when they already have problems to acomodate all the tools in mouse size interfaces? The list goes and goes and goes. Play angry birds? fine. Real work? no way. Technically to have only one platform for developers is fine: Let desktop ( or a reworked metroniced desktop ) to run winRT in somewhat metro windows for productivity apps and you will still have the best of the two worlds. If not a lot of devs will keep developing for win32 because its clients will not want full screen apps, or simply they will move to support another OS. You can argue that desktop concept is old, nice, wheel concept are much older and noboy has build square wheels yet because nobody would use that.

  120. Bob says:

    "developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers"

  121. Nope says:

    Windows 8 could be one of the best desktop operating systems if it wasn’t for the Metro Madness. In an effort to unify the desktop and Metro Microsoft has butchered the desktop. All they care at the moment is to catch up with the rest of the OSes and seem cool and progressive. So far they only managed to look like fools by pushing the wrong solution to the wrong platform.

    Coming out with statements like “increase productivity by using maximized apps” only makes you laugh when you are developing solutions for users that use 6 or more monitors.

    Oh well, the direction has been chosen ages ago, all we can do now is sit back, relax and let them ridicule M$ one more time.

  122. Bob says:

    It's seems to me that this guys just want an Os to play Angry Birds, to listen to music, and to share crap on facebook. Thats the problem with the new generations of Computer geeks, they want "developers" to make crap, to make silly things, they are all "yeah let's make this an Metro app, Photoshop? Metro App, Lightroom? Metro App, Combustion? Metro App, so "Developers" will be happy with their new jobs doing stupid things, destroying all the programs, doing kindergaten interfaces for a generations of Stupids, Btw Common sense, what is that for you, cause it seems that you only want to push only your opinion.

  123. Bob says:

    It's seems to me that this guys just want an Os to play Angry Birds, to listen to music, and to share crap on facebook. Thats the problem with the new generations of Computer geeks, they want "developers" to make crap, to make silly things, they are all "yeah let's make this an Metro app, Photoshop? Metro App, Lightroom? Metro App, Combustion? Metro App, so "Developers" will be happy with their new jobs doing stupid things, destroying all the programs, doing kindergaten interfaces for a generations of Stupids, Btw Common sense, what is that for you, cause it seems that you only want to push only your opinion.

  124. pmbAustin says:

    For advanced desktop people, an interesting thing to do:

    From Start Screen, type "se" and then hit the "Settings" (gear icon) under the search box.

    An instant list of virtually every settings app, control panel applet, administrative tool, etc.  From this list, you can pin any you want to the start screen or task bar, or just browse through the amazing wealth of options…

  125. Future joke says:

    I can see it:

    Microsoft 2030 Keynote:

    – And now we present the new OS "Tiles 8"! we have just innovate and we are bringing you an amazing revolutionary new feature! It´s called windows and they let you perform a lot of tasks in the same screen at the same time!

    And everybody:

    -woooooooooooooow

    No, seriously, Microsoft is not going to exist anymore in 2030 if they go this way.

  126. Kurt says:

    Anyone here remember Windows 98 Active Desktop? this is the ugly brother.

  127. Kurt says:

    Anyone here remember Windows 98 Active Desktop? this is the ugly brother.

  128. Nope says:

    @pmbAustin, thanks for the hint, I appreciate you are trying to help but did you just told us to “search for” the settings and then “pin setting items” to various places?

    So I am supposed to upgrade to a “new” Windows version so instead of going to my control panel with 2 clicks I will have to setup my own screen with my “favourite settings” so I don’t spend 3 hours looking for them. And given I have a 30” monitor in front of me, I gather I can have all the settings I want pined around so they never escape me.

    At the end of the day what I always made fun of about when I was watching Unix users working was the number of key combination and “secret” keywords they were using to get anything done on their desktop.

    I guess they were right and I was wrong, at least this is what Microsoft is telling me now. So if I was wrong in using Windows all along, then I must be wrong using Windows now. I still believe that Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2 are the right operating systems for most of the work/development I need. But I rather move to Linux/Mac than use Window 8 (or Windows Server 8) Metro Rectangular Spectacular UI.

  129. hp promoter says:

    And Recents Items ? of Start Menu

    It is useful and necessary for many, for me the first.

  130. Pol says:

    No entiendo a la gente que ve el futuro como un despliegue de tecnologia, donde todos estemos conectados, donde tengas que experimentar la realidad a traves de la tecnologia, es como un insulto a la capacidad del Hombre Humano de entender su entorno, es algo contradictorio no?.

    Se que este comentario va un poco fuera de topico, pero es que es una tendencia tanto en Apple como en Microsoft el idiotizar al usuario?, cuando yo era un niño SI! soñaba con pantallas donde todo fuera tactil y con mi voz activara comandos, pero uno crece y se da cuenta de lo estupido que son los ideales inutiles, te das cuenta que lo mejor es sacarle el maximo provecho a tu mente de otra manera, como las artes, las ciencias, luego esta la tecnologia, pero hay una mala costumbre de sacarle el mayor partido con el entretenimiento en vez de utilizarlas como herramientas del propio pensamiento en si.

    El sistema operativo en si claro que funciona, claro que es rapido, es util, pero no esta enfocado en lo que deberia estar, si no mas bien en conseguir la atencion, trata de captar a los desarrolladores de software, y con razon, si Microsoft solo se esta centrando en las aplicaciones para Metro, pero son estas utiles? haras mejor trabajo con ellas?

    Simplemente me parece un mal chiste, algo que nunca debio haber salido a la luz.

  131. Pol says:

    Im sure Adobe will NEVER release their products as Metro Apps. Thats just Insane.

  132. Pol says:

    Im sure Adobe will NEVER release their products as Metro Apps. Thats just Insane.

  133. Yep says:

    @Pol, you are not off topic, on the contrary, you are spot on.

    This version of Windows is created by aging managers that all they target is another piece of the market that has moved away from them ages ago. In their effort to catch up they are sacrificing any good engineering principles that guided Windows UI development all these years.

    The sad thing is that Windows 8 underneath all the madness is still a great kernel with tons of excellent features.  Unfortunately for a lot of us who work with this operating system, it is impossible to ignore this layer of madness that masks anything good this operating system has to offer.

    Actually the amount of stupidity that is published through this UI and the public statements Microsoft is coming out with make me embarrassed to be promoting their products in the workplace.

  134. @Kurt

    What does Active Desktop have to do with Windows 8?

  135. Mark says:

    To Microsoft: In a future article can you please discuss more info on the Metro – is it a language or a set of guidelines and are they guidelines or requirements? For example, not one of the Metro apps I have found allows a change in text size; is that a Metro language limitation or are you "encouraging" all developers to use a specific thing to make them all look similar? Ideally I would like to be able to use my large monitors to see more at a time with less scrolling rather than just larger versions of everything.

    Similarily, is there (or will there be) any way to change the size/contrast of the scroll bars. So far, every app has the same sized scrollbar which is very small and hard to grab and almost all of them are very low contrast, making it hard to see where they are – is this a Metro limitation or can I send feedback to developers asking them to include options to change the scrollbars?

  136. Kurt says:

    @WindowsVista567

    There you go, you're blind.

  137. Cody Robinson says:

    To Windows 8: Hello! i am working a a youtube video that took months to work on. i was using windows 7. i upgraded to windows 8, and now my project file dosent work anymore. it freezes up. i am hoping in the updates that you will fix it. thank you!

  138. Pol says:

    @ I see

    Look all over the negatives comments on that video, and Microsoft and the "Windowers" says "Metro is fine, Metro is good for you".

  139. Pol says:

    @ I see

    Look all over the negatives comments on that video, and Microsoft and the "Windowers" says "Metro is fine, Metro is good for you".

  140. Pol says:

    Minute 04:21   there you go, he have a "touch" point of view of everything.

  141. Pol says:

    "and I promise you, you'll gonna have fingerprints all over your monitor"   YEAH RIGHT!

  142. Jim Jam says:

    @Pol

    Yes, on a Windows 7 PC I'm sure I'd have fingerprints all over the monitor, LOL! (sarcasm). I'd be a stupid.

    @StevenSinofsky

    29 processes are too many, even in Windows 8, processes should be as low as 10, at the most.

    Removing 5 processes every 3 years = just 9 processes in 2024, quite acceptable then, LOL!

  143. Simple Solution says:

    If the new start screen and Metro apps maximized (instead of full screen) leaving my taskbar showing, I think most of the negative feelings would be greatly mitigated.

    And why not have both the Win7 start menu, and the ability to pop it open to the full screen start screen, just like Windows Media Player can pop up and down from a small unobtrusive skin to giant skin? That way everybody is happy and can work however they need to.

    Another key feature is the ability to run metro apps in resizable windows. Either one window hosting all of them (not great), or the ability to have any number of Metro Host windows. Otherwise, please rebrand your operating system as Microsoft Window. 😀

  144. Frenz says:

    pmbAustin: It doesn't really matter how awesome Metro is – it's not really the problem. It might be 100x easier to use and find stuff using Metro (it's not btw.), but it still doesn't matter. Metro apps might be 100x cooler and better than Desktop apps and it still doesn't matter.

    The problem is this: Insisting on overtaking the entire screen by going all fullscreen!

    For people concerned about productivity on their workstations this is a broken design!

    For Metro applications it's a broken design! Because it means Metro applications can never become productivity oriented on Workstations (same reason that Microsoft didn't make Office 15 run inside of Metro, they DO actually acknowledge this problem). I would choose a cripled, ugly-looking, amateur application that run in WINDOWED mode anyday compared to a Metro application insisting on running in FULLSCREEN! As someone who actually LOVE what they did with the WinRT API, I find this fact REALLY sad!

    It means Metro / WinRT will be limited to mobile/tablet applications and consumer-entertainment on the PC.

    It also means that all serious (productivity, business, development, design, …) appliations and tools will still have to be based around the old APIs (win32/winforms, MFC, WPF, ..).

    It also means that if I want to create an application for professional users – then I will need to create one application that works for their Desktop (eg. Win32 API) and another one for accessing the same application from their ARM based tablets (WinRT API). I already do this today – the tablet in this case is just called iPad. I was kind of hoping finally getting a Microsoft tablet would mean to only have to create ONE application which runs EVERYWHERE – but as this is not the case, this is hugely disappointing!!

    The easy solution to this would be to enable Metro applications to run in windowed mode on the desktop as well – then we would truly be able to create applications once for all devices and scenarios! How awesome that would be!

    But if I just wanted fullscreen entertainment, I have another device particularly designed for this – it's called a TV! (And yes, I would love Metro on this device!)

  145. Simple says:

    @Simple Solution

    To have Bill Gates again instead Ballmer & Sinofsky.

  146. Simple says:

    BTW Sinofsky's voice is way beyond annoying.

  147. Pol says:

    Los "Windowers" y "Developers" deben estar amando y aferrandose a Windows 8 como una madre lo hace con su hijo discapacitado.

  148. Pol says:

    Los "Windowers" y "Developers" deben estar amando y aferrandose a Windows 8 como una madre lo hace con su hijo discapacitado.

  149. Pol says:

    @Frenz

    Personally I don’t even want a “Metro” experience, It’s not even the platform Its their focus on how they will design the software just to have “the look” of Metro, they want to develop everything to be “touched” there are tons of way of improve the software design but not the way Microsoft is doing, I would prefer those pixelf*ckers designs that are better.

    I don’t want “tiles” on Metro neither my desktop, I don’t want to use my mouse like a virtual finger. I want a real Os. For real software not cripple apps.

  150. Pol says:

    @Frenz

    Personally I don’t even want a “Metro” experience, It’s not even the platform Its their focus on how they will design the software just to have “the look” of Metro, they want to develop everything to be “touched” there are tons of way of improve the software design but not the way Microsoft is doing, I would prefer those pixelf*ckers designs that are better.

    I don’t want “tiles” on Metro neither my desktop, I don’t want to use my mouse like a virtual finger. I want a real Os. For real software not cripple apps.

  151. GregH says:

    I like the new desktop features, storage spaces, file history, usb 3,  security, aero improvements – I have been working the same way as before on desktop so I can’t see any issue – why does having a significantly better start menu that opens apps (soon to be very cool apps) matter.

    From now on is you post in this thread any negativity you will be automatically regarded as a Mac user – because I can tell you now the Metro interface absolutely takes the p*ss out if iPad.

    I don’t see any downside of Metro as an updates Start Menu . Gadget window, that rarely has to be used if you set up your programs on the taskbar.

    There will be lots of Mac users trying to spread hate right now becasue they honeslty believe in some post PC era domination of iPad.

  152. Gilberto says:

    @OMG!

    Honestly, this is the best you can say, I think you have never worked with Windows Embedded, never developed anything for self-service terminals where the shell is simply not the explorer of his beloved desktop. Then you don't know how to share the screen between applications running in full screen, or place a wizard screen on the current screen. I apologize by inconvenience but you don’t know Windows OS, you know star button, taskbar and desktop apps…… ok you are a good user.

  153. GregH says:

    Theres a new kid on the block – Windows 8 – officially better than iPad and Android, anyway there will be enterprise options soon to be announced and the Windows 8 haters are dumb, they just don't like changing, stay with Windows 7 or buy an OS X.

  154. Simple Solution says:

    @Simple – Please don't denegrate people, it is counter productive.

    Whether or not you agree with some of the decisions being made on Windows 8, you have to appreciate the immensity of the task that Mr. Sinofsky has undertaken and the personal toll this project has certainly levied on him, and will continue to do so for the unforseen future.

    You should also appreciate that the vast majority of software developers, no matter their job position, have exactly the same goals as you do. Making whatever they are using better. One of the things Microsoft has always excelled at has been to take some software and continue to improve it until it is tremendously useful. Your feedback is a valuable part of this process, but will go ignored if you present yourself as a troll.

    Metro (WinRT) is important for a number of reasons, and not just to Microsoft. It opens new income opportunities for developers worldwide, which is sorely needed in today's economic situation. It also enables Windows apps on Arm processors – yet more opportunity, With a little imagination you can also see how the App Store features will simplify life for users of all levels, just as the Amazon and Apple stores have for Kindle and iPhone.

    -Ed

  155. Pol says:

    @GregH

    Yeah, Im a Mac user with Windows 8

  156. GregH **Stop Press** says:

    I genuinely appreciate the Windows 8 vision, we need to help them solve the little niggles  – can we all pull together people and support our favourite tech company?

  157. GregH says:

    Ok, that might be a bit dramatic but I would like to see more support.

  158. Pol says:

    @Gregh

    "can we all pull together people and support our favourite tech company?"

    Think for yourself!! You see you're such a blind fanatic, is Microsoft a religion? a Soccer team?

  159. Pol says:

    @GregH

    “There’s a new kid on the block – Windows 8 – officially better than iPad and Android, anyway there will be enterprise options soon to be announced and the Windows 8 haters are dumb, they just don't like changing, stay with Windows 7 or buy an OS X."

    You know? that's why Microsoft is wrong, cause they want to be better than Apple and you know what does that mean, inferiority complex It's a shame, cause I’m a Microsoft user, a Windows user but when I see people like you, just trying to beat Apple like if this where a battle I feel ashamed cause users like you, I’m a Graphic Designer, and I admire Steve Jobs as a Human, and I like Microsoft, it’s that hard to you that both can coexist?

    Microsoft is trying too hard to be better, but in meantime they are going in the wrong direction, they just want “to beat Apple” that’s the mentality of a loser. And I don’t want to coexist with losers.

    OS X mountain lion is a great OS, and I’m a REAL Microsoft user, but users like you are so blind for having issues with Mr. Jobs, or Apple.

  160. Pol says:

    @GregH

    "they just don't like changing" Thats the most useless excuse, of course I want to change, but a good change.

  161. OMG! says:

    @Gilberto

    Each people uses their OS for what they need the way they need. You need full screen apps? nice. Me too, for some task, like watching movies or playing some games ( not even all games ), but for my work as graphic designer mandatory full screen apps are the worst choice. You develop for windows embeded? nice, I´m not. I´m not a developer, and yes, I´m a taskbar and desktop user (and even a mouse and wacom tablet user!), and yes, I work extremely nicely that way. Every one have their needs and no compromise means to give all that people what their need. And no, not every people needs or can support a mandatory full screen OS. Of course I know how to switch between programs running in full screen even in desktopt without using the taskbar, but a lot of times I don´t want them running in full screen because I need to be watching a lot of other matherial from other sources at the same time, like reference images or seeing real time how changes in one file looks in that file loaded in another program, and so on. Weird? may be for you and your embeded systems, but many people really need that feature to get their job done. Why you want to force all us to go always full screen? Why not let the user choice what he needs?

  162. Expert analyzer of names to hardware market says:

    OFF Topic:

    @ Steven Sinofsky

    I did not know where to put it, is on Xbox:

    The following must be called Xbox 460, by perception and marketing, will have the success insured if is named so.

    No other numbers and other names.

    The slogan something like this:

    Another lap of entertainment.

    Please, report to the department Xbox when you can.

    Kind Regards.

  163. Alex says:

    The problem with Metro is simple. It is slow. Apps need to load. No one likes looking at a picture of a camera for 10-20 seconds.

    There is NOTHING to be gained from having a long loading time for an application which doesn't do much (no Metro app looks complicated).

    If you are serious about Windows 8, you need to take that into account. For example, the Video App (shows videos to buy, watch, and the videos in your Video Library) takes time to "load", upon loading a user is presented with a grey screen, which eventually loads to be something useful. This can take a MINUTE. This should take 5 seconds.

    What is a purpose of a fluid Metro interface when the Apps just downright kill the fun factor by loading, or being stuck – there is no way to know whether an app is loading or stuck.

  164. Frenz says:

    Pol: Actually, I do want access to Metro and especially Metro apps.

    I do like the vision here and I do like the business opportunities Metro and especially the Windows Store provides – the consumer reach on this platform is going to be HUGE. I think Microsoft is right in pushing Metro and creating a unified experience on all devices – I would just like a little bit of customization options, to make it fit my needs and preferences. The big issue here is insisting on having Metro apps run in fullscreen on Workstations where you would primarily use a keyboard and a mouse and where you need to be able to run a lot of applications side-by-side.

    And I want a proper Desktop work environment without silly features not optimized for mouse and keyboard usage (And no, I'm not going to feel like putting greasy fingers all over my workstation screens anytime soon).

    For the Start Menu I kinda like what Stardocks did, although their current implementation is a bit buggy.

    However it's going to be bloody hell developing these Metro applications, not only have they crippled the Desktop experience for us developers, they have also made Visual Studio for Metro (11) all black and white … – AND they are  forcing us to debug Metro applications in fullscreen mode! (good luck seeing the actual debugger and try to do stepping unless you have a dual monitor setup – especielly good luck if you want to use your laptop)

    It's no longer "Developers, Developers, Developers" it's "Consumers, Consumers, Consumers" – sadly this focus change sounds more like something I would have expected from a certain fruit company, not Microsoft.

  165. flakefrost says:

    Windows 8 is awesome! Everything runs so much smoother :)

  166. Pol says:

    No quiero sonar impertinente pero he visto todos los videos de Microsoft Windows 8 y todos hacen énfasis en cosas triviales de cómo utilizar la interfaz Metro, lo cual no me sorprende pues es una de las novedades, pero lo que veo con descaro es la forma en que tratan de vender el producto enfocándose en si vez tus fotos en facebook, si organizas tus fotos con la aplicación de imágenes, revisar tu twitter mientras trabajas, la cantidad de juegos en Windows App Store, leer mientras juegas, y un sinfín de actividades contradictorias entre sí que solo te harían perder el tiempo. Lo más chocante es cuanto desespero tienen en llamar la atención de Desarrolladores de Software para poder vender Windows 8, y sus facilidades con lo diferentes lenguajes de programación. Todo para terminar con una fastidiosa pantalla maximizada y aplicaciones de mala calidad.  

  167. Why Microsoft 8 doesn’t matter says:

    Gadget blogs are in a lather to photograph every piece of new prototype hardware seen running “early beta” builds of Windows 8, thinking that the completely new Metro-fied release might dramatically shake up the tablet market. They’re wrong, here’s why.

    Microsoft’s shift in strategy with Windows 8 is remarkable. Since Windows 95, Microsoft’s flagship operating system environment has changed very little in appearance on a functional level, mostly folding in ornamental features like the new color scheme of Windows XP or the translucency and gloss of Windows Vista.

    The core functionality and behaviors of the Start Bar, Control Panel, Windows and Internet Explorers have all remained largely unchanged across the last 15 years.

    That’s all about to change. Windows 8 ushers in an entirely new user interface and an entirely new development style. Like Apple’s iOS, Microsoft is closing the door on windows, at least in the Metro side of things where content and apps exist as full screens rather than in the overlapping clipping regions ushered in by the Macintosh in 1984.

    Microsoft gives its developers Windows 8 tablets with a taste of Bob

    Microsoft’s OS approach very different than Apple’s

    However, rather than inventing an entirely new user interface appropriate for mobile devices as Apple did, first proving it in mobile phones, then moving it into the iPod touch and then a larger form tablet, and then incorporating the most appropriate elements of the new environment into its desktop OS, Microsoft has charted its own course.

    Microsoft began by inventing an entirely new user interface that was not appropriate for mobile devices. It then proved it to be a failure on the Zune and then again as its replacement for Windows Mobile. Windows Phone 7 has erased Microsoft’s faltering success in smartphones and replaced it with resounding failure of epic proportions.

    In desktops, it attempted to bring its entire Windows desktop to netbooks, where it ran poorly. To improve things, Microsoft tried to remove functionality and charge extra for its reinstatement, repeating a failed Vista strategy of 2007 in netbooks with Windows 7 in 2009.

    In 2010, Microsoft then took the least appropriate elements of its desktop environment and tried to make it into a tablet, calling it Slate PC in a effort to distract from earlier, failed attempts to do the exact same thing over and over again across the previous decade.

    Once that collapsed, Microsoft then took the Metro work that failed to spark any interest from buyers on the Zune and WP7 and used it as the new launchpad for its next generation of desktop software in 2012, radically changing a product that already enjoys monopoly control over the entire PC market to force it into a new role it is not equipped to do. It’s almost as if Microsoft is being run by HP.

    Why Windows 7 on Netbooks Won’t Save Microsoft

    Windows Phone 7: Microsoft’s third failed attempt to be Apple

    What will HP do with Palm’s webOS? Most likely: fail

    Unlearned lessons from Vista

    The last time Microsoft tragically tampered with its monopoly position in Windows, it did so by introducing some significant changes to how certain things worked and looked with Windows Vista. Some nerds loved Vista but the public that actually buys PCs hated it, making it the least successful launch of the decade. But Vista did far less to shake up Windows than Windows 8 will.

    Vista confounded users by simply changing around some of the Control Panel options, failing to work with some existing software and hardware, and operating a bit slower than the previous XP had on the same machines. Windows 8 goes far beyond making a few minor changes. It entirely rethinks Windows into a product that is no longer Windows but actually a Zune-Bob layer of hyper functional magazine graphics obscuring the Windows desktop.

    Further, a key feature of Windows 8 is that it will run on ARM, finally making it possible to produce a highly efficient Windows tablet device. Unfortunately, Microsoft has no plans to actually support existing Windows apps on ARM, meaning that ARM tablets running Windows 8 will only really deliver the new Metro Zune-Bob layer of crap that the market has shunned over the past two years while not delivering the familiar functionality and utility that actually represent the real value of Windows itself.

    Microsoft failed to learn anything from its mistakes with Vista. While Apple’s Steve Jobs was mortified by the bungled release of MobileMe, apologized for it while making amends and promising to do better, and ultimately referred to it as a mistake while unveiling its successor under a far more forgiving release schedule, Microsoft’s Steve Ballmer has insisted that Vista was not a mistake at all, refused to acknowledge any problems, and talks about the release as if it were merely misunderstood by an idiot public. That’s an alcoholic level of denial.

    Windows 95 and Vista: Why 2007 Won’t Be Like 1995

    Fortunately for users, there’s already an ARM tablet that runs Windows.

    Imagine if you could access the full power of Windows on a light, thin, highly portable tablet device that cost just $500. You don’t have to wait until the end of next year to get this. It’s been around since last year. It’s called Citrix running on an iPad. Anyone who needs to run Windows apps remotely can already do so, without any work from Microsoft.

    What Microsoft fails to understand is that the value of Windows is not that it is branded by Microsoft; it’s that it provides some functionality that people need. Microsoft can pump out all sorts of irrelevant crap (and it has, from Surface to Vista Aero to Slate PC to Zune to WP7), but the reason people buy Windows is not because they love Microsoft and want to buy everything it makes, but rather because Windows does something useful that they need done.

    To drive home that point, consider that people who need a mobile Exchange client are best served by the iPhone and iPad, devices that plug into Exchange Sever as well as or better than Microsoft’s own mobile clients, but also do a lot that Microsoft’s own branded devices don’t.

    People buy Windows for Windows apps, not out of Windows loyalty

    The fact that the iPad has allowed users who need to access Windows apps to do so for a year now says a lot about Microsoft’s delusional arrogance in regard to thinking that people want stuff with the Windows brand rather than just Windows functionality. Enterprise customers, including many who are beholden to Windows, have been buying iPads by the truckload. In come cases, it’s to run Windows apps via Citrix. In others, it’s to avoid having to manage a Windows desktop for a user who doesn’t really need a dedicated PC to do his job.

    A key reason why lots of PC users have switched to Macs since 2006 is that they could access the native functionality of Windows, either using Boot Camp or a virtualization tool. It’s really something that the average retail price of a PC laptop is now under $500 while Apple’s MacBooks start out at $1000. Despite that gulf, the perception of value among Macs has caused Apple to outpace the growth of the PC market by several times, every quarter for several years now.

    People are already getting Windows functionality without buying a Windows-branded PC, and they’re already getting Windows functionality on a tablet without waiting for Microsoft to deliver a Windows-branded device. If the market supports paying at least a $500 premium to buy Apple laptops over generic PCs, how will Microsoft convince buyers to pay the same price as an iPad to get a version 1.0 Windows 8-branded tablet sometime next year after Apple has another year to refine iOS, iPad hardware and sell another 50 million iPads?

    Particularly when their only choices for getting a Windows 8 tablet will be to either get a full powered, but much more expensive Intel-based tablet that runs hot enough to need a fan, or an ARM-based tablet that won’t run the very apps they expect Windows to run?

    Tablet troll fight: Android vs Windows

    Windows Enthusiasts keep looking at Windows 8 with a reverential respect for Microsoft for creating a new product with the Metro look, but fail to see a pattern emerging around products that sport that UI. Have they already forgot about the Zune and Windows Phone 7? Wait let me check… yes still not selling worth a damn.

    A flashy, handsome UI makes for nice demos to excite the base, but it didn’t save Android 3.0 Honeycomb tablets or HP’s webOS TouchPad, and it won’t set a fire under sales of new PC Tablets built by HTC or Samsung or Dell or Acer. In large measure, this will be because Microsoft’s “no compromise” approach to Windows 8 actually makes a huge compromise: it fails to recognize that the value of Windows comes from running Windows apps.

    Apple expended significant efforts to maintain seamless backwards compatibility every time it shifted its Mac platform, first from 68k to PowerPC, again to Intel, and again to 64-bit. Microsoft is simply shrugging away what will be a huge issue for buyers. If users have to resort to Citrix to run Windows apps on a “Windows” tablet, they might as well benefit from Apple’s enormous economies of scale and get a cheaper, slicker iPad that can actually run real iOS apps as well.

    As I’ve noted previously, the biggest impact Windows 8 will have is in dividing the Apple haters between Android and Windows, setting in motion a fracture that will leave pundits wondering which they should throw their support behind as they try to distract attention away from the iPad. That will weaken the propaganda supporting Android’s existing product options and blow the cloud of Windows 8 vaporware up to an unattainably high peak of expectation that Microsoft will never be able to reach with its shipping product.

    But ultimately, Windows 8 won’t matter because firstly, the PC market is in steady decline, and secondly, the “tablet market” simply fails to exist outside of Apple’s own iPad sales. For anyone to challenge that, they’ll need to build an alternative the offers similar functionality at a similar or better price. Apple’s only credible competitor in smartphones is a willfully infringing distribution of free software being distributed by an advertiser via carrier subsidies.

    If Microsoft can’t compete against that in smartphones, how will it fare in tablets, where even Google’s billions can’t ship boxes loaded with free software?

  168. GregH says:

    @Pol

    OS X mountain lion is a great OS! You’re a OS X fan boy absolutely, no doubt.

    Steve Jobs was a complete *** most of the time when it came to business and competitiveness.

    The tablet is not about beating Apple – most of us don’t care. Steve himself claimed that the tablet would never be a success whilst Microsoft have been actively exploring it for years – this is about a tablet device coming to market that is not locked to an authoritarian non-competitive company like Apple that we can finally enjoy for its complete flexibility of Windows, you certainly wouldn’t have the opportunity to see behind the scenes like this blog – get on board or get lost – troll.

    @Why Microsoft 8 doesn’t matter

    Your closed minded opinion is what doesn’t matter, I switched my iPhone for a Windows phone Nokia Lumia and it is alot better – and the main reason iPads sell is because that is what is currently available apart form Android for touch screen responsivness and apps in a tablet form factor – there is no better example of how a tech company prescribes a way of working in a fixed and closed way.

    The desktop in Windows 8 is better than Windows 7.

  169. Pol says:

    You see? This is how Windowers Kids see "the future" of Windows.

    http://www.theverge.com/…/dhivehi.gola

    @GregH

    What happens if I like OSX Mountain Lion, is an Os right?, it works what is wrong with that, is that an issue for you? And I also like Windows, you still blind about my point, you cannot use both of them I HAVE to use both due my work as Graphic Designer, I edit videos on both OS I illustrate on both Os, and "you certainly wouldn’t have the opportunity to see behind the scenes like this blog" WTF are you aware that there exist backdoor information at Apple?, I told you, I’m not a "Fanatic" did you read what I said?

    "Gregh

    "can we all pull together people and support our favourite tech company?"

    Think for yourself!! You see you're such a blind fanatic, is Microsoft a religion? a Soccer team?"

    Who is the fanatic, how old are you? Are you wearing your Windows uniform, windows pajama or something?

    Why you have to induce that I’m a Apple fanatic or Windows fanatic, I like both.. The only thing I’m a real fanatic is to my WORK on software.

    I just don’t like Windows 8 it's that hard to understand?.

  170. Nitz Walsh says:

    "The problem with Metro is simple. It is slow. Apps need to load. No one likes looking at a picture of a camera for 10-20 seconds."

    That's I'm noticing as well – what is up with the time required to load these incredibly simplistic Metro apps?  The first time I double-clicked a .PNG from my *desktop*, it went to the Metro photo browser and took a good 7 seconds to finally display the image.

    A $200 netbook shows you that image in a second or two on Windows7 for pete's sake.

  171. I really like Windows 8; I've been using it for a few months with the preview releases, both on a tablet and with a keyboard and mouse. I think most people would like it and would learn to be okay with the new start menu. However, please don't underestimate the effect that the outspoken change-hating bloggers and people can have on public reception of a good OS. Remember Vista: although the Mojave experiment (and Windows 7) eventually proved the outspoken detractors who jumped on the Vista-bashing bandwagon were talking through their hats, people are still convinced it was a terrible OS. Windows 8 could fall to this if you don't head off the negativity. If you don't make there be a way to use the old start menu, thus keeping the desktop experience potentially metro-free, there will be trouble. The internet is already full of people flipping out and complaining. These are the people who destroyed Vista, and if they aren't appeased Windows 8 could have a Vista-like reception. But if you make the start screen optional so metrophobes can have their no-compromises desktop, and then let a good catalogue of nice apps slowly lure them back to the start screen, you can avoid the vitriol while hopefully achieving the goal of Win 8 anyway.

  172. Pol says:

    @BrentL

    I like the new (hidden) features of Windows 8 it reminds me those who came with Vista, I remind all the good things that Vista brought those days, but I HATE the whole Metro interface, how it works, how it looks, how I should use it, the applications there, the future applications on Metro, all those things just to imagine that, it’s just wrong, Its killing what an Desktop Os should be.

    However, the Metro interface will have a huge positive impact on Tablets, that’s it, period.

    I cannot imagine future Software as Metro Apps, it just don’t make sense, it’s like using a rock as a chair, the true is, that I see everywhere complains about Windows 8 and they are underestimating those complains, Is not “hate” there are just realistic conceptions, negatives of course but mostly of the Microsoft people cannot see the whole point due their fanaticism and nihilism.

    There is so much Idealism behind Windows 8, it’s not “Metrophobe” I just uninstall all the crappy Apps and put all my software there, and what I have? Well a big useless screen displaying my programs, what do I want? A menu, is that going to the “Old Way” or a “New Way” to execute programs?

    If you want to drink water there’s an Old Way or a New Way?…

  173. Pol says:

    @Nitz Walsh

    Back in the days of Windows XP you opened an picture in less of a second, Windows 8 still having the classic picture viewer, but why I should open a picture with an slowly app, those are the things I still thinking, why cannot improve the classic picture viewer performance, why they didn’t improve the Windows Media Player like Zune, why there’s too much focus on Metro apps, why there are so desperate to sell Metro apps.

  174. Woody Allen says:

    The name "Windows 8" is misleading, it no longer fits.

    Let's rename the new OS to "Fullscreen 8".

  175. Well says:

    Too much contradiction behind windows 8.

  176. Black Rambo says:

    Real gentlemen’s would not approve Windows 8. Ayn Rand would not approve Windows 8. Stefano Pilati would not approve Windows 8, David Bowie would not approve Windows 8, and as I stay with the cool people I will not use Windows 8.

  177. Black Rambo says:

    @Woody Allen

    "Metro 8"

    "Screenmode 8"

    "Diedesktop 8"

    "Developers, Developers, Developers 8"

  178. Black Rambo says:

    "Thisisthefuture 8"

    "Fast&Fluid 8"

    "Fingerprints 8"

  179. Stefan says:

    The Metro BS should be running hidden in the background (on desktop computers) while the user could use the desktop all the time in a normal way with apps as normal icons (not as ugly blocks). Being thrown around between desktop and the non-multitasking fullscreen Metro BS is useless to speed up productivity.

    .

    A Windows without a real startmenu, as many really do use is stupid. Let the user choose. Without the real activity bar (classic XP – not Windows 7 junk-bar) makes no sence at all.

    .

    Picture login and integrated Skydrive are pure BS as well. I will never use any online stuff related to Microsoft after a dispute i had with the abuse dept for Hotmail. All that is blacklisted for me.

    .

    Design of the pics in Windows 8 must be made by some of the developers kids. It is too childish to be created by a grown up. The overall design is ugly, ugly and more ugly.

    .

    Windows 8 doesn't support old software as stated around the net. I have old musicstudio software that stopped run already in Vista. With a little workaround i solved that,. That possibility disappeared in Windows 7 completely. In Windows 8 it is the same. I am well aware that this consumer preview is some sort of pre-alpha…not a beta. Read some that tested it thought this consumer preview worked worse than the developer preview….

    .

    Once more to You Windows 8 fanboys: STOP WHINING ABOUT US WHO DON'T LIKE THIS WINDOWS 8 (Blocks 8 – should it be named)

  180. Stefan says:

    @Karl: Thanks for that You think as i do !

  181. AlexV says:

    The metro must work similar to Microsoft Media Center, in a window mode, and to work when the user will open it.

    The start button must be back the same as in Windows 7.

    Allow to snap in a window of an application, besides metro apps.

    Allow on low resolution screens snap function.

    Metro must contain such apps for mobile, in case that windows 8 will run on a smartphone: Messages with sms, calculator, log, contacts, calendar… similar to WP7….

    Allow apps to run in a windows mode.

    Hope my thought will be listened.

  182. Ben says:

    Carl Sagan would not approve Windows 8.

  183. Pol says:

    @ Stefan

    The metro should be an option to completely enable or disable. Icons should remains as icons, like Windows 7 but maybe a little bit better. That’s not a big issue, Picture login seems more to old people or kids, the Design of the icons on Metro are ugly for a reason, there are not professionals http://www.gerdarntz.org/home Gerd Arntz was a professional making REAL Icons, but again that’s not a big issue, the overall design is ugly as I said even the “pixelf*ckers” have better interface design, even Adobe Kuler have nice colors combinations.

  184. Pol says:

    @ Stefan

    The metro should be an option to completely enable or disable. Icons should remains as icons, like Windows 7 but maybe a little bit better. That’s not a big issue, Picture login seems more to old people or kids, the Design of the icons on Metro are ugly for a reason, there are not professionals http://www.gerdarntz.org/home Gerd Arntz was a professional making REAL Icons, but again that’s not a big issue, the overall design is ugly as I said even the “pixelf*ckers” have better interface design, even Adobe Kuler have nice colors combinations.

  185. Befuddled says:

    The Metro experience on a desktop is THE WORST OF BOTH WORLDS. I don't doubt that Metro will be an awesome interface for phones, tablets, TVs, etc. but it fails miserably on a desktop or a traditional laptop. Two different UI shells make perfect sense given the wide variety of devices that Microsoft wants to run this but there needs to be a CLEAN BREAK between the two. Desktops should boot to the desktop and devices where Metro makes sense should boot to Metro.

    On the desktop Metro should be a MODAL option, an app you can start like Media Center.

    Note that the Start screen != Metro. This is where I think Microsoft are confusing themselves. The desktop is not perfect, in fact it's a waste of space and clearly Microsoft get this but release after release, they keep getting it wrong (Active Desktop, Sidebar, Gadgets…). And they're about to botch it again, crippling the desktop experience removing the start menu, injecting charms and what not, and dropping any concept of hierarchies (even iOS allows you to group your icons into folders!)

    I don't see how any IT organization would roll this mess out. I know mine certainly won't, not if I have anything to do with it.

    The Consumer Preview on a desktop is complete and utter garbage. How did Microsoft screw this up so badly!?

  186. Shrek says:

    This is how Metro apps should have been integrated with the desktop: http://www.stardock.com/…/fences_image_4.png

    Get a Start button for Windows 8 here: http://www.stardock.com/…/start8

    This is how the start menu should have been integrated (Needs a bit polishing though)

    If you want to Bypass the Startup Screen go to: C:UsersDefaultAppDataRoamingMicrosoftInternet ExplorerQuick Launch. Get the "Show Desktop" link and copy it to the users startup folder. (C:UsersUSERNAMEAppDataRoamingMicrosoftWindowsStart MenuProgramsStartup.

    Now when you start Windows 8 it will go to the Desktop skipping the start screen.

    I am using Windows 8 for appr. 2 weeks. Everytime I boot it think "Great". I like Metro and I like to see all the new things. But as soon as I start to work with it, I am getting disappointed everytime when I realise that former simple Tasks are now more complicated and require more clicks than before. And after a while of using the start Screen with joy, I start hating everytime I have to use it. I am missing a hierarchical structure to organize things better. I have the full Screen mode.

    I hate the Metro Limitation on 1366 Pixels for snapping. I hate the app Fullscreen mode. I hate the hot Corners and the charms getting in the way. I hate the 2 different Looks of the Desktop and the Metro world.

    Windows 8 is not how it should have been. There would be better ways to integrate both worlds seamlessly with more Options for the user to accomodate everything to their liking or requirements.

  187. Befuddled again says:

    PS. Don't get me wrong. I'm a big fan of Windows and I am excited about a lot of the new features of 8, cloud and social integration, storage spaces, some ui change like task manager. It's just the program manager for the UI experience on the desktop that should hang his or her head in shame on the way out the door.

  188. Claudiu says:

    Windows 7 is much nicer that Windows 8

  189. Claudiu says:

    Windows 8 will be a Windows tablet for PC does not deserve to have metro, Windows 8 must necessarily have the home button and the windows 7

  190. Claudiu says:

    windows 8 desktop interface added new icons have changed, a new bar to do not look exactly like Windows 7

  191. Claudiu says:

    I do not think many users who bought Windows 7 license, will move to Windows 8, are not worth little difference between Windows 8 and Windows 7 desktop interface that is different metro interface that makes the difference between Windows 7 and Windows 8, interface metro is not good on the touch screen for PC, Windows 8 for PC will be a failure will be a tablet

  192. Claudiu says:

    If Windows 8 will look like windows 7 desktop interface, has changed after windows 7 sp1 and that is not worth doing well are still better on windows 7 it ​​works very well is a SP1 Windows has experienced maybe you have and sp2, is doing great

  193. ReMark says:

    This thing from stardock (http://www.stardock.com/…/fences_image_4.png) is absolutely awful.

    Imho, the official Metro Start + the "stardock metro start button + menù" for the desktop = its' OK, you can CHOOSE what you want to do.

    On W8 there are a lot of improvements, I hope in more desktop features / native programs / performances.

  194. Claudiu says:

    Windows 8 be done with the option of on / off the subway interface, if the user wants to have eight windows desktop interface blind gotta brought back home and changed button interface for the desktop does not look like Windows 7, Windows 8 yet in consumer preview desktop interface like Windows 8 in 90% with Windows 7, Windows 8 iterfata brings metro, I still gotta say little changed at Windows 8 I say,

  195. IdeaGuy says:

    Can we get a replacement for start orb icon from the taskbar and put a picture of start screen there on the taskbar where it used to be?  

    I think that will at least help the desktop/corporate whiners to keep it simple, and yeah, I get that mouse works and keyboard but its just a visual handicap that is needed, just like when MS released windows 95 with <<— click here to start.  

    Its just to ease their minds and give Windows 8 some improvement and not this negative publicity because its not there.

    Thanks.

  196. TS says:

    @Steve

    I like Metro. I like the ability to go Metro or outside but not in the current form. Rather then using Metro with pleasure i feel compelled not using just because Desktop is being compromised. It feels a disrupted experience. It's just a human reaction. About freedom and coercing. A basic human reaction.

    In Desktop mode when apps are maximized not just full-screen the charms shouldn't be available. It's distracting and really irritating to get charms on your way. Lots of times when i go to close an app or minimize it, charms appear. Also on games. The same with Show Desktop. I dont think Charms make sense on Desktop at all. 'Share is not available on Desktop' is just an example of that. But at least put Charms only available on Desktop app (Background Desktop image).

    When apps are maximized the charms appear not because i directly invoke them, but because they 'get no your way'. They disrupte the experience. The same with scrolling down on browser or apps. The same in games, etc. You feel that's its really annoying and disrupting experience. The main word here is disrupting.

    At least give the users the ability to configure that in a Control Panel advanced settings, so normal users wont change it.

    Besides the start screen to me is a broken model. In future there will be lots of duplicated shortcuts. Firefox Metro, Firefox Desktop, Photoshop Touch, Photoshop classic, etc, etc… Besides that now you can just open IE Metro. In order to open IE Desktop you have to go to Desktop, or open inside IE Metro? What's the logic of that? It's a contradition of your own broken model. You want to make the start screen a launcher but IE 10 is just one of the many contraditions and failures of this model.

    Give users a choice. Let them have the start button an option on taskbar properties. People will use Metro if they like it. But will tend no to use it if they feel forced. It will create.

    If users can have a choice of opening just Metro apps on start screen (option) and have the start button then the broken gets fixed. The mess gets clean and elegant. I am saying option.

    About Desktop app it doesn't make any sense. I know you will not change this, but its a non-sense idea. If Desktop is an app? What is Desktop apps? Sub-apps? Why if i am on Metro and Ctrl-Shift-Escape i get to the Task Manager in Desktop app and can control all Metro apps and sub (Desktop) apps at the same level, but i cant kill the Desktop app? The all apps duplicated shortcuts, the IE only Metro shortcut is clearly an contradition of this deformed high-level architecture.

    Also you have to understand that there are people who dont like Metro. Its a taste. Like everything. Some like white, some black. Some yellow and orange, other gray and dark blue. This issues i have surfaced will become more strong to this people. They react strongly. You have to give user a choice.

    If people are in the 'ironic and agressive mode' its not because is their default or they are being trolls, but because Microsoft is not valuing them. They feel ignored. They dont listen to us, or at least they dont give them feedback they are evaluating. Users feel its our way or the highway? I mean? 21 century. It's just bad users expectations.

    Just a note. I tried windows 8 customer with a open mind. I wanted to love Windows 8. I love certain aspects of it. I am MS fan. Really. But i am critic about it. In a positive way.

  197. TS says:

    on my previous post i was talking Charms with mouse. With touch, Charms should always be activated. I didn't mention because it was obivious to me.

  198. TS says:

    Another simple quick suggestion.

    On Alt-Tab. There should be an simple small check-box on corner (Hide Metro Apps). Check, unckeck. Simple. Or at least put an configurable advanced control panel choice.

  199. jellyfish says:

    Also, having to "uncover" the login screen on a PC is just ridiculous. It's a must on tablets for fear of accidental contact, but on PCs it's completely & utterly useless and just a huge annoyance.

  200. Stefan says:

    In Windows 2000 you had to click Y times for some advanced setting.

    In XP You had to click YY times for some advanced setting.

    In Vista You had to click YYY times for some advanced setting.

    In Windows 7 You had to click YYY times for some advanced settings.

    In Windows 8…….nah….i give up….

  201. Stefan says:

    In Windows 2000 you had to click Y times for some advanced setting.

    In XP You had to click YY times for some advanced setting.

    In Vista You had to click YYY times for some advanced setting.

    In Windows 7 You had to click YYY times for some advanced settings.

    In Windows 8…….nah….i give up….

  202. Extra time says:

    @ Steven Sinofsky

    Windows without start menu in not good.

    these are some ideas for desktop mode ( this designing is integrate with metro designing)

    uploadkon.ir/…/3b5bc27ed3d8681e9783a82cc3e93c68.png

    uploadkon.ir/…/7252273fc2e85c43f78d074a1d01161c.png

    uploadkon.ir/…/f3174628758fa0309d5e2572661733eb.png

    i think windows azure color is excellent for windows 8 stat menu implementation.

  203. Stefan says:

    Windows 8 Survey: Half Who Have Tried the OS Wouldn't Recommend It

    .

    http://www.pcworld.com/…/windows_8_survey_half_who_have_tried_the_os_wouldnt_recommend_it.html

  204. PJB says:

    I dislike W8 as it is at the moment, and would not recommend it to anyone.

    No start menu is annoying, having the start screen is annoying. At least give users the choice during the installation phase what type of device they are installing it on, and given them these sort of options.

  205. TS says:

    http://www.neowin.net/…/interview-stardock-ceo-brad-wardell-talks-about-start8

    "Question: Do you think Steven Sinofsky and the Microsoft team will be making any major changes to the Metro interface before the final commercial version of Windows 8 is released?

    I am confident they are. Mr. Sinofsky is one of the best software engineers in history. What concerns me is how things even got to where they are in the Consumer Preview. The user experience is objectively terrible. I saw a prominent journalist say that it "only" takes 4 steps to shut down the machine, what was the big deal? The big deal is that a lot of basic things are now multiple steps. I use a PC to get work done, not to battle with the OS interface."

    (…)

    "Question: Finally, this is perhaps the single biggest change in Windows from Microsoft since at least Windows 95, if not ever. Do you ultimately think this will be a successful launch for Microsoft?

    It depends on what they do with the feedback on the Preview. If they don't address the fundamental usability issues they've introduced to people who expect to use Windows as a PC desktop OS, then I think they're in for some serious trouble."

  206. Samso says:

    It is ridicolous: I too had to Google how to turn off Win8. This can´t be right. Nothing intuitive.

    From the survey: "If Microsoft had tried to adapt the Metro interface to the desktop and Explorer, it would have been great.". Nothing is more true than that. Metro on my phone is outstanding. But it is because there is no 2nd system. On PC the Metro experience is awful.

  207. Shrek says:

    @ReMark: "This thing from stardock (www.stardock.com/…/fences_image_4.png) is absolutely awful."

    No. Imagine Metro apps could run this way on the dektop: Drag them around, Background still visible, resize them. That would be fantastic!!!!

  208. TS says:

    I think having 2 OS is a good thing for convertible devices. Heck, i think its REALLY great. It could be a huge sucess. I just dont agree on how they are throwing you out from one to another when one dont desire.

    And on a non-touch device the more annoying this kick you out of Desktop is.

    Even on PC. If you dont want, dont use Metro. If you like Metro, use it. But dont force people on it…

  209. Seeker says:

    I don´t get it: The live tiles of Metro start screen get updated automatically to always display current information.

    But to see the live tiles I have to manually switch to the start screen as I cannot place apps onto the desktop.

    This concept is inconsistent. Why having self updating live tiles when they are not visible on desktop?

  210. alisadunk says:

    When can I guy a windows 8 track pad?

  211. ReMark says:

    @Shrek:

    yeah, I'm talking about the "graphic style". I done a "preview" of this idea some days ago:

    http://tinyurl.com/76cbl3m

    so Tiles could be useful and live in the desktop environment (resizable, drag them around etc…) and they could show "info".

    I agree. That would be surely fantastic!

  212. ReMark says:

    @Windows team

    PS: Apps don't work under a low resolution. I know that low resolutions can mess up Apps layout but you could find a solution (scaled resizing? I don't know)

    But if you want a large compatibility…

  213. Stefan says:

    "…Mr. Sinofsky is one of the best software engineers in history…." – Are You kidding ?

  214. noApps says:

    I will never buy any apps from the Marketplace as I do not agree with Micosofts licensing agreement that allows them to delete the apps I bought without my consent at any time for any reason they desire. Also they reserve the right to delete all content that was created with the apps as well.

    So the Metro world is a Nono for me. Never, ever will I download anything from there. So my world is the desktop and there Windows 8 is surely fantastic. If there wasn´t that start screen and the charms. They always get in the way of my wonderful desktop experience.

    And man do I hate it.

  215. Stefan says:

    That Windows 8 experience? Confusing. Confusing as h-ll

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/…/windows-8-desktop-experience

  216. Pol says:

    @Befuddled

    Trust me, Metro option like Media Center is not a solution I dont want to know anything about Media Center or Metro Apps.

    The desktop IS perfect to me some people just have “horror vacui” of empty spaces.

  217. Pol says:

    This is how a clean Os should look go to pixelf*ckers dot org /submissions/1705

    @Shrek  

    Sorry mate, that solution is even worst than metro.

  218. Pol says:

    This is how a clean Os should look go to pixelf*ckers dot org /submissions/1705

    @Shrek  

    Sorry mate, that solution is even worst than metro.

  219. Pol says:

    @ReMark

    Those ideas are ugly, just go to the link on Pixelf*ckers and watch the visual styles.

  220. JonQ says:

    I watch here: http://www.ipal.ro/tableta-windows-8-ipad-2

    a nice vs fight but is with a ipad 2 … what about ipad 3 … hase windows 8 a tablet capable of handling ipad 3 ?

  221. teko says:

    When i create a virtual switch in hyper-v i get a warning on my network icon even if i'm connected to internet (this is confusing).

    Drag and drop and USB support are missing in hyper-v

  222. ReMark says:

    @Pol:

    watched, but there are no metro apps on desktop, only "dark vista style" windows with only X button.

    @JonQ:

    Windows is software. Ipad 3 is hardware+software.

    An i5 tablet with w8 >>>>>> ipad 3 in a productive-point-of-view (multimedial too I think)

  223. Unfortunately Stardock’s Start8 is useless. :(

  224. DarkUltra says:

    – "In the first milestone, I worked on the design and development of the discovery and activation of application extensions. This WinRT infrastructure allows applications to participate in OS-supported contracts (such as search and share) and serves as a basis for exciting Windows features, including the search and share charms."

    Maybe you can improve how Windows searches third party email applications? If I enable message searching in thunderbird, the Profile folder produces thousands of files in the folder "Maillocalhost-1Inbox.mozmsgs." These files take a long time to backup, and is generally considered a messy implementation.

    getsatisfaction.com/…/thousands_of_files_in_profile_folder_inbox_mozmsgs

    Or is Thunderbirds implementation broken?

    Thank you.

  225. Pol says:

    @ReMark

    Well I find the "metro apps" infantile and useless.

  226. Pol says:

    I don't get it, why people think that still having Metro apps on a rezised windows, is just awful & dumb.

  227. Pol says:

    I don't get it, why people think that still having Metro apps on a rezised windows, is just awful & dumb.

  228. Kurt says:

    This is just the beginning of Windows 8 "the terrible", It's just in the wrong direction, just wait the release, metro apps sucks, metro interface sucks, it is a WASTE of time to use the Start Screen, the "new" "futuristic" concept is childish its just plain dumb marketing for suckers.

  229. Kurt says:

    This is just the beginning of Windows 8 "the terrible", It's just in the wrong direction, just wait the release, metro apps sucks, metro interface sucks, it is a WASTE of time to use the Start Screen, the "new" "futuristic" concept is childish its just plain dumb marketing for suckers.

  230. Pol says:

    I don't get it, why people think that still having Metro apps on a rezised windows is a great idea, is just awful & dumb.

  231. Mark says:

    @NoApps – is that true about licensing in the WinApp marketplace? That would be bad for anything other than disposable 99-cent games

  232. A12 says:

    @Extra time

    I don't need a start bottom with the "Windows" on it, just a simple logo, minimalist logo thats it.

  233. Sad says:

    I doubt Microsoft is listening to you guys. I believe their vision is that Metro apps are the future and the desktop is only there as a legacy, (like the command prompt) and that in 2 years nobody will use a desktop app or drop into the desktop.

  234. Joe says:

    The whole multitasking with multiple windows thing was just a fad. Back to single task OSs with full screen apps.

  235. noApps says:

    @Mark

    You can google "Windows 8 kill switch" or check directly in Microsofts terms of use for the marketplace: windows.microsoft.com/…/store-terms-of-use

    "Can Microsoft remove apps or data from my device? We may change or discontinue certain apps or content offered in the Windows Store at any time, for any reason. Sometimes, we do so to respond to legal or contractual requirements. In cases where your security is at risk, or where we’re required to do so for legal reasons, you may not be able to run apps or access content that you previously acquired or purchased a license for. In cases where we remove a paid app from your Windows 8 Consumer Preview device not at your direction, we may refund to you the amount you paid for the license. Some apps may also stop working if you update or change your Windows 8 Consumer Preview device, or if you attempt to use those apps on a Windows 8 Consumer Preview device with different features or processor type. You are responsible for backing up the data that you store in apps that you acquire via the Windows Store, including content you upload using those apps. If the Windows Store, an app, or any content is changed or discontinued, your data could be deleted or you may not be able to retrieve data you have stored. We have no obligation to return data to you. If sign in information or other data is stored with an expiration date, we may also delete the data as of that date."

  236. Pol says:

    "The whole multitasking with multiple windows thing was just a fad"

    Are you sure?

  237. myplace says:

    I think Windows 8 will only be usable after service pack 1.

    When talking to people how much they hate the tiles on Windows Phone there is no way these people would get a Windows 8 license.

    Actually for desktop users Windows 8 is a service pack for Windows 7. (If there wasn´t that Metro Madness).

  238. Pol says:

    @Sad

    Of course they don’t, Microsoft is an abstract entitie, Microsoft don’t listen, the only one who can read all this comments is Mr. Sinofsky itself, maybe some guys of the Windows Team, they just will remain in silence.

    People overestimate Microsoft, they think that they own everything, Metro Apps are just a bad joke, people is changing their minds, this is not 1999 when everybody were looking for a E-Mail account, 99% of the people I know have drop Microsoft Account, they don’t use Hotmail anymore, People are changing their mentality, you must be blind to not realize the intentions of microsoft, they are a far from the new generations and are trying desperately to draw attention, the applications do not have any future. The tablets are a fad but the Desktops will continue to reign for a simple reason, productivity, meaning using a PC, you better focuses on a PC, but they only want to now introduce an interface which seems taken from Fisher Price.

  239. mark says:

    Lets not work anymore, let's just spend all day on FB, and casual games

  240. telling says:

    Can´t tell how much Metro sucks already on Pc. I am using the Consumer Preview daily and after a short while I get so fed up with this.

    Being forced into this Start Screen over and over is causing real body pain at least for me. I cannot imagine buying a license for this disjointed crap.

  241. NotForMe says:

    Windows 8 is not a SP1 for Windows 7 it has a lot of great features that are far ahead of Windows 7. Unfortunately though, it is carrying the Metro virus with it that has made it impossible to work with.

    I had a Windows Phone 7 and I find the Metro UI well suited the device. After a year I gave it to my wife and got myself a blackberry because it is better for my work.

    Beyond the phone factor the Metro UI loses its usefulness and becomes a productivity killer. I do have a tablet with Windows 7 and I was waiting to upgrade it to Windows 8. Actually I am so put off the Metro stuff that I do not want to see it on any of my devices.

    I mean come on, look at it, a huge rectangle with a tiny icon and a word in it saying what it does, whoo hoo, this is some fantastic 21st century UI.

    All the Metro UI represents is an application store where you can download some cheap and lobotomized apps for your system that will make MS some money. Maybe fine for tablets and phones but for the desktop? Seriously if this is all they do with your desktops these users should have bought an iPad instead.

    My main computer has a 30” monitor and a Sandy Bridge Xeon with 16GB of memory and TBs of storage. And Microsoft is telling me that running 2 apps at most simultaneously and full screen is going to increase my productivity. Plus that they can reach remotely on my computer and remove applications they don’t think I should have.

    I still have not found which circus all these clowns escaped from, but I am still investigating.

  242. Cartesian says:

    Too much controversy for nothing. A feasible solution for Microsoft's problems? Put Metro on phones and tablets as the main shell; put Metr'o as a Desktop background in traditional PCs. Goodbye Start Menu: all you need (apps direct access and find-as-you-type searching) is in front of you.  Goodbye whining about jarring experiences and sort of like. But the only problem that Microsoft can't resolve is the bunch of sun tanned Microsoft's execs: millionaires without temper expecting that this hybrid monster will be OK.

  243. DarkUltra says:

    Please allow me to enable the old Start menu while keeping the new explorer with its QAT and combined file transfer dialogue. There are things I simply cannot do with the new Metro UI. I can't keep several windows open, use Opera with tabs and menus and drag and drop files from start menu to open programs. I can quickly and simultaneously search and access all my programs, documents, pictures and folders by tapping Windows-key and typing in about two to four characters with my left hand. No need to move my hand from the mouse, no need to Tab between apps, files and settings. As such, Metro Start screen is a huge step backwards.

    Please consider this article, as previously mentioned in this discussion.

    http://www.livingdigitally.net/…/windows-8-a-giant-misstep-forward.html

    Let Metro UI apps and desktop apps be one, and smoothly shift between them when docking your tablet on a keyboard stand, like for instance on Asus transformer laptops. Then you can truly appeal to both serious desktop users and tablet users.

  244. TS says:

    @A12,

    I dont like the idea of the article. Having both OS completly merged. Its impossible to achieve that. They are so different. What i want is both UI totally separated. They could exist it in the same OS. But you are in one at a time.

    You can have the best of two worlds, but not at the same time.

  245. TotallyAgree says:

    @TS: agree with you 100% …they do not mix. They lobotomized the desktop in an effort to convince us otherwise. It is beyond bad, it is useless.

  246. Common Sense says:

    Two people in a row, in an effort to prove me wrong in saying that there is no one singing the praised of Windows 8, have posted articles in which the overall tone is exactly as I stated it would be:

    "It's okay, it workes, you'll get used to it."

    The reality is that the MAJORITY of feedback on Windows 8 ranges from severely negative at worst, to mosty indifferent at best. The only marginally "excited" commentary is coming from people who admit that they don't even use Windows, they are dedicated Mac/iOS users.

    This is a reality, and no ammount of saying it isn't is gong to change that.

    But let's get one thing straight here. I think Metro at it's core, as a DESIGN PHILOSOPHY is actually brilliant. It is certainly leagues beyond what Google has come up with for Android (and as an Android user, I should know, one of my biggest beefs with Android is that it has a very inconsistent and mostly ugly UI. But I use Android because it is the ONLY smartphone platform that gives me control over my own damn system).

    It's as a user interface that Metro is lacking, and I think the fact that MOST people who have tested it feel this way that it's fair to say it's true.

    And it's also the move towards a closed computing model that bothers me. I don't have a problem with there being a Windows store. I do have a problem with being prevented from installing Metro apps from other sources. Yes, I am sure someone will quickly find a workaround, but it's the sprit behind such a move that bothers me, and be able to get around it doesn't fix that.

    The apologists can defend Windows 8 all they want, and make themseleves feel superior by posting obnoxious comments every time someone posts about not knowing how to find the shutdown button. But let's face it, a lot of smart people who have been using Windows for a long time couldn't figure this out without help, I'd say that indicates a problem. Trying to deny that problem by saying things like "who the hell shuts down their computer now anyway?" is ridiculous. I shut down my computer. Not every time I leave it, but certianly every time I carry it in my bag because all I need os it accidently waking up from sleep in the bag and frying itself. Heck, my phone sometimes manages to turn itself on in my pocket and it's a touchscreen device with a lock screen.

    I don't think those who have pointed out that Microsoft is taking a big risk with Windows 8 have really stated just how BIG a risk it is.

    In trying to please everyone, they are in serious danger of pleasing no one. In it's current state Windows 8 is a very flawed desktop operating system, that most people have said they wouldn't buy or reccomend to a friend. Some pundits have argued that Win8 does not need to be successful on the desktop, and even have gone so far as to suggest MS won't care if it isn't because they will just sell a Win7 license instead. I'm sorry, but are you kidding me? Even is it didn't have any effect on MS bottom line, such a failure would cause irreversable damange to the brand.

    I know, I know the common line in the industry these days is that the PC is dying, and that the tablet and other devices are the future of computing. Bullshit, I say.

    Have PC sales slowed? Yes, of course they have. Have they slowed because of the iPad? Undoubtedly it has had an impact. But is it the primary factor? I seriously doubt it. The PC market is mature. There are very few first time buyers of PC's these days. Combine that with the slowed replacement cycle, and it's no wonder PC sales have slowed.

    But let's not ignore all of the other factors effecting PC sales. People don't need new PCs. Technology has advanced a point that no one really needs a new computer anymore, the one they bought 3 years ago is still functioning fine, thank you very much, and running all of the software they need it to run. Why would they buy a new one? Computers are powerful enough now that even the most indept and lazy software designers can't create enough inneificient code bloat to challenge todays PCs anymore.

    Add to this the fact that one of the main drivers of the PC upgrade cycle, PC gaming, is becoming less and less popular. Yes, there are still dedicated PC gamers out there, but for the most part, even hardcore gamers have moved to consoles. Let's face it, most of us just prefer kicking back on the couch in front of the big screen to being hunched over our desks when we play games. (I myself hada PC copy of fallout 3 for years and didn't end up playing through the game until I bought the PS3 version) Another factor? A lot of the most popular PC games these days don't need a state of the art PC to play. World of Warcraft anyone? Even new PC games don't need the latest and greatest hardware to play as most of them are multiplatform and developed with the specs of the PS3 or Xbox in mind.

    But the PC is not dead. It's just mature. We are not in a post-PC era, and we never will be. For all of the other devices out there that might cannibalize part of the PC market, PCs will always be required for writing software and content for these devices AT THE VERY LEAST.

    I think that's how MS views things too. They correctly saw that Apple was WRONG about PCs, they are not dead, they aren't going anywhere. (Incidently, I think Apple knows this too, despite the public marketing line to the contrary).

    Where I strongly believe that they made their mistake, however, is in thinking that the shift of some users away from their PCs towards iPad and iPad like devices meant that what people really wanted was for their PC to be more like a tablet.

    Let's remember what made the iPad a success. It was a 100% new market category. It did not exist before Apple launched it. And back at the time, a lot of people kind of laughed at it. Why would anyone want to buy an overgrown iPod? Well as it turns out a lot of people did. But where they the same people who would have purchased PCs or Macs?

    Yeah. Relucantly. They were the people who never really like computers much, bought them out of need, rather than want, and spend all of their computer time consuming content. Reading, browing the web, listening to music, etc. They switched from Windows to Mac because someone told them is was "easier" (as anyone who actually knows anything can tell you, it's not, just different, but that's another story) The iPad was perfect for them, because it was simple, elegant, and easy to learn. It had shed all of the complexities of a computer.

    Android did much the same thing, while giving the users a greater level of control and flexibility. This worked out fantastically well for them on phones, where their was pent of demand for a phone that offered this kind of versatility and "techie" experience. It's been kind of a dud on tablets though.

    I have a guess as to why: The average tablet buyer does not want complexity or control over their system. The average tablet buyer was a PC (or mac) user out of necessity, not choice. Now they have a choice. Further to that I'd say that the average tablet buyer is really not a tabet buyer, but an iPad buyer. I worked in retail electronics and we did not carry iPad, I can't even tell you how often someone would come in looking for one and walk right out the door without even stopping to consider one of the many Androids or Blackberry Playbooks on the shelf. If they did, they would invariably get confused by Android (why are their so many? why are they all different?).

    Because again, THE TABLET BUYER IS NOT a PC buyer. Two different markets, and the former is not replacing the latter.

    And here is where I think MS might be really flying the coop. They are counting on the tablet buyer to make Windows 8 a success. The problem is that I am not convinced at all that Windows 8 is what the tablet market has been waiting for.

    Remember the tablet buyer is after simplicty. Windows 8, aside from it's shiny new surface, is anyting but simple. And before you argue otherwise, just tell me what you think is gong to happen the first time a non techy user on a tablet clicks the wrong tile and gets thrown onto the desktop? I bet they get pretty confused. That's if they even buy a Windows device in the first place. Given what I saw of Android, the very fact that there will be more than one Windows tablet tells me that a lot of people will get confused right off the bat and go searching for the ipad.

    Another thing. I imagine (and I am only guessing here) that the majority of Windows 8 tablets sold will be ARM devices, on which desktop software won't even work. So why is the desktop in that version at all? (And it IS in that version, before some bafoon says otherwise)

    And let's face it, no matter how you slice it, The Metro interface is the offspring of not one, but too FAIELD products. Zune and Windows Phone. And while I appreciate that there are some vocal fans of both, you can't argue with reality. Zune was a failure. And Windows Phone is on life support. So why MS has decided to bet the farn and transform their bread and butter product based on the design of two failed ones is beyond me.

    This ended up being way for long winded than I indended. So let me sum it up.

    Windows 8 is a compromised OS for desktop and Laptop computers. MOST people feel this way, and most users of this type of system have said they will not buy it or recoommend it to friends. The rest have had a lukewarm response, ranging from indifferent to mildly optomisitc. Only a very small minorty are actually happy with what they have seen in Windows 8. A few apologists seem to like to take every opportunity to mention that nothing has been removed from Windows 8. While that is true, some things have been made more difficult. And I don't think anyone, even the people who like windows 8 are happy with the disjointed feeling of the OS. All of this does not bode well for Windows 8 on non tablet devices.

    Windows 8 is also a compromised and unproven OS for tablets. While it has a shiny, simplified surface, under the hood it's still a full blown desktop OS. Some key OS fucntionality still requires flipping over to the desktop, which is not touch friendly, and has nothing in common with the Metro design logic. I have a feeling that tablet buyers are gong to hate this even more than desktop users. Of course we haven't even heard from this group yet as almost everyone who's had a chance to use Windows 8 has been doing so on a laptop/desktop.

    So who is this OS for? Ultrabook buyers? I don't think it's even their yet for them. It won't be until it is a truly cohesive, unified OS. Despite what MS claims, it's not there yet, not at all. Far from being a no compromises OS, Windows 8 is nothing but compromises.

    I don't get why people are denying it. This is a make it or break it release for Microsoft, and so far, the majority of feedback seems to be suggesting it will be a break it release. I see Windows tablets being about as successful as HPs webOS or the Blackberry playbook. At the same time MS is risking alienating their desktop/laptop userbase by forcing a full screen start screen on them that none of them want.

    I think MS is being pig headed about this. The logical move would be to Make Metro the default on ARM devices, and allow metro apps to run alongside standard apps on the desktop (or docked/ full screen, but give the user a choice) on x86/non-touch devices. Simple concept really. Create an optomized user experience depending on the device type, instead of a compromised expereince for all.

    I fear it's too late for that though.

    "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

  247. Braden says:

    After reading all the comments about Windows 8 CP, I have some thoughts:

    – First overall I like the direction Windows 8 is going in, and some great improvements have been made in many areas. Refinements are super important though…

    – On the desktop add a shortcut. Built into Windows, preconfigured to show up until user deletes it

    – This shortcut would open a tutorial that takes over screen control, where interface elements, charms, switcher etc. would automatically slide out, and user is asked to participate in using the features.

    – I watched this painful video here (http://www.youtube.com/watch), and I could imagine some people will be this confused. Having a shortcut on the desktop, would mean there is always a way for user to learn new UI functions. Also during Windows install process, provide an optional step, to use this tutorial on first boot. Obviously have clear instructions in the physical manual as well.

    – Advertising can be used to sell Windows 8, but also educate users.

    The hot corners do work for the most part. However if they could be slightly easier to click, without deactivating that would be great. They also need to be easier to click in multi-monitor mode especially.

    Hovering over the charms with mouse should show tooltips, with keyboard shortcuts. Making these important functions easier to discover the hotkeys for.

    Click and drag scrolling with mouse is also needed for the start screen (in empty regions). It feels like it should be a natural option.

    The switcher feels underdeveloped. Tooltips, app icons, and peeking at each app (like aero peek on taskbar) is needed, would make this a much more useful feature for mouse and keyboard users.

    IE Metro thumbnails, should support peeking at windows, when hovering with mouse. User just naturally expects it, based on other Windows UI's.

    Give power users a little love. Like why not fix aero snap, so you can snap between edge of multiple monitors with mouse.

    Also why not add function to hold shift to open multiple applications from Start screen. So instead of automatically switching to app, you stay in start screen, so you can open a series of apps. This power users could start all their apps in a row, then stay in desktop longer.

    Jump lists were great, please add them back to start screen, even if just for desktop apps.

    Drag and drop on to sub folders on breadcrumb bar, would be nice. By dragging file to drop down arrow, then folder off this.

    For the most part Windows 8 looks great to me. As a power user pressing start and typing, is as fast as ever. I don't get the hate for metro.

    I also appreciate being able to search in other apps, all started using keyboard (e.g. search dictionary from start screen with keyboard).

  248. Pol says:

    Thinking that PCs are dying or the PC will die is something absurd, and Apple could easily take advantage of all this misunderstanding that is taking the world of computing, the Tablets are a complement more but will never replace PCs.

  249. Braden says:

    After reading all the comments about Windows 8 CP, I have some thoughts:

    – First overall I like the direction Windows 8 is going in, and some great improvements have been made in many areas. Refinements are super important though…

    – On the desktop add a shortcut. Built into Windows, preconfigured to show up until user deletes it

    – This shortcut would open a tutorial that takes over screen control, where interface elements, charms, switcher etc. would automatically slide out, and user is asked to participate in using the features.

    – I watched this painful video here (http://www.youtube.com/watch), and I could imagine some people will be this confused. Having a shortcut on the desktop, would mean there is always a way for user to learn new UI functions. Also during Windows install process, provide an optional step, to use this tutorial on first boot. Obviously have clear instructions in the physical manual as well.

    – Advertising can be used to sell Windows 8, but also educate users.

    The hot corners do work for the most part. However if they could be slightly easier to click, without deactivating that would be great. They also need to be easier to click in multi-monitor mode especially.

    Hovering over the charms with mouse should show tooltips, with keyboard shortcuts. Making these important functions easier to discover the hotkeys for.

    Click and drag scrolling with mouse is also needed for the start screen (in empty regions). It feels like it should be a natural option.

    The switcher feels underdeveloped. Tooltips, app icons, and peeking at each app (like aero peek on taskbar) is needed, would make this a much more useful feature for mouse and keyboard users.

    IE Metro thumbnails, should support peeking at windows, when hovering with mouse. User just naturally expects it, based on other Windows UI's.

    Give power users a little love. Like why not fix aero snap, so you can snap between edge of multiple monitors with mouse.

    Also why not add function to hold shift to open multiple applications from Start screen. So instead of automatically switching to app, you stay in start screen, so you can open a series of apps. This power users could start all their apps in a row, then stay in desktop longer.

    Jump lists were great, please add them back to start screen, even if just for desktop apps.

    Drag and drop on to sub folders on breadcrumb bar, would be nice. By dragging file to drop down arrow, then folder off this.

    For the most part Windows 8 looks great to me. As a power user pressing start and typing, is as fast as ever. I don't get the hate for metro.

    I also appreciate being able to search in other apps, all started using keyboard (e.g. search dictionary from start screen with keyboard).

  250. Pol says:

    @Braden

    You’re falling into conformism, Windows 8 direction is right? Are you sure, do you want Adobe Apps?, Autodesk Apps?, do you want a giant useless screen showing all your programs?

    “Advertising can be used to sell Windows 8, but also educate users” Yeah but not inside my Os.

    We don’t want hot corners, or charms(one of the useless things on W8), metro interface.  

  251. Braden says:

    Conformism? Hmm I have the right to have my own opinion.

    I never said I want Adobe apps, Autodesk apps. In fact I use applications like Maya, Mudbox, Photoshop etc. myself. – I can't ever see them being metro, and I don't really want them to be. The start screen is simply a replacement for the little popup that housed some shortcuts, the desktop is still there, windows explorer is still there (with even more options than before). The start screen is functionally similar to the old one, you can use keyboard to navigate, and an all programs list also exists (which I found cumbersome before anyway). It is true without cleaning up the start screen as you install applications it can get messy, but it is very easy to unpin multiple items. You can use page up and page down, to rapidly move along start screen, and directional keys, to select a tile. But winkey, type, enter stills works, and for most things, this is super fast. Some docked apps can be cool, even in a professional workflow, docked music player, chat, mail etc work well (but yes it sucks not being able to dock apps to multiple screens (even with just 2 screens)).

    The hot corners themselves only expose:

    Charms: As a power user, and as someone opposed, to metro why do you need them?

    Switcher: An interface to switch apps. As a power user, I suspect you will be using full applications all the time, so this feature currently isn't very useful (I would like to see it improved though)

    Start thumbnail: As a power user, press win key

    I think the hot corners could improve, some tweaks to make them more responsive, and easier to click, without deactivating

  252. Pol says:

    @Braden

    To be conformist doesn’t imply that you cannot have your own opinion, the start menu is a menu not a popup that’s the problem people that like Metro, and people who doesn’t like it, and that doesn’t mean that they are antiquated, that’s one of the mentality that I hate, people who think that there are going to be “new way” to do things, the question is are you going to make better work doing all the “new way”?

    I’m extremely meticulous working with photography, I don’t need the Photo App, I have my zune player installed, I don’t need the Music App, there are people who want to remain in Metro, well I DON’T want to remain in metro watching useless apps, I know where the explorer is, I know where all the programs are, there are just users that don’t like it that’s it. Its seems designed for kids, there’s too much Yuppification on Windows 8, “fun, easy, fast & fluid” I don’t need to chat, I use Mailchimp, I don’t even use Hotmail. So why I need to be forced to use Microsoft apps?. That’s the future? Well I don’t need that “Yuppie Future”

  253. Pax says:

    The whole experience would be much better if they just re-introduced the little start button from the Developer Preview.

    At least that made sense and you had access to Search, Charms, Start Screen etc. It should, of course, still have the context menu with all the nice options as it has now.

    It would be immensely more intuitive to find because you have a visual cue that lets you know that you can click this area and something will happen. Hidden menus have never done anyone any favors…

    If people need to guess how to use system, they will most often guess wrong and some will never find the little gems that are hidden throughout the OS.

    If you, as a developer, have a cool feature in your program, would you make sure people could find it or would you hide it away like an easter egg?

  254. Braden says:

    @Pol

    Uninstall all metro apps, extremely simple to do.

    Press winkey, search Pho, pin Photoshop to taskbar (do this about 5x for all your pro applications)

    Open applications as normal from taskbar, Live in desktop. What was so particularly amazing with the old start menu?

    Your not being forced to use MS apps.

    I'm a pro user, and think what MS did by bringing metro and a new app platform to Windows is a good thing. MS need to make strides into the tablet market, or face problems down the line. Windows will be used on many convertible type devices, with mouse and keyboard and touch interchangeably. Once the hardware becomes available, it will become more obvious why this approach makes Windows more flexible.  

    In any case the start screen tiles are much nicer than the old widgets in Windows Vista and 7. I think over time we'll some much more useful examples of live information on tiles – all of which the user can already turn off if not necessary.

    For those that care about the future popularity of Windows in general, I think MS did the right move. Power users are not really being effected much at all. But kicking up a huge stink over small changes.

  255. Braden says:

    "Power users are not really being effected much at all. But kicking up a huge stink over small changes."

    That said, as previously mentioned, MS do need to do some tweaks and refinements.

    I hope they work it all out by the Consumer Preview. It's just not as bad as some people make out.

  256. Raiden Ninja Robot Genius says:

    It's a secret. Metro Apps folder is: "C:Program FilesWindowsApps". You have to take ownership of that folder by selecting your "PC nameusername" to display its contents (type user name that appears at login or better under the "Users" folder and press the check button, PC hardware name will be added automatically), that is all of the Metro style Apps. They cannot be run in desktop mode.

  257. A12 says:

    I’m beginning to think that I’m an incomplete hipster, I still having a Pc with Windows, I like Vampire Weekend, I like Noah Kalina’s pictures, I like Ayn Rand, I like Tumblr, I like Animal Collective, I love Sonic Youth, I don’t like Polaroid’s (that makes me ubber hipster), I like Graphic Design, I love Dieter Rams, I love Massimo Vignelli, I love flux art, I don’t like surrealism, I like Jack Kerouac, I like Haikus, I like Boards of Canada, I like Bertrand Russell, so I need to move to Apple, that’s the ultimate hipster goal. And I will be proud of it.

  258. Pol says:

    @Braden

    Hey guess what, you don’t need to teach me things that I already know, I did it I uninstall all the apps, I don’t need to type Pho, I don’t want to “pin” it to my taskbar I don’t like the clutter on my desktop, are you sure that people is not  “being forced to use MS apps.” Are you sure, what you need to access to MS apps? A Microsoft Mail account right?

    I’m also a “pro” user, (I don’t know why people have to say Pro) I’m just skilled enough to work fast with key shortcuts.

    “And think what MS did by bringing metro and a new app platform to Windows is a good thing. MS need to make strides into the tablet market, or face problems down the line.”

    Wow we all know that but was necessary to cross both platforms to make an ugly *** hybrid?

    Go to Tablet market MS, stay long enough until you can realize that the future still belong to the Desktops, and NO, I don’t want to use my mouse and keyboard like a finger.

    It seems that you cannot understand that there are people (the majority) that DON’T LIKE METRO, however the improves behind Windows 8, the details Outside the Metro experience are “nice”, You like ugly colored blocks? I don’t, you like to watch the fullscreen with toys, and social garbage, I don’t.

    MS isn’t that popular, that’s one of the biggest misconceptions on Windows users.

  259. Developers, Developers, Developers. says:

    @Braden

    I agree with most points you mention. The Desktop is a really compromised OS. Saying you will get used to its just plain stupid. Its lowering and lowering the bar. Microsoft wants to make their products better not by making them better, but simply by 'forcing' users to aquire common sense or getting used to.

    I think Windows 8 is destinated to be a huge success. Microsoft, Paul Thurrot and pmbAustin are right. To Windows 8 be a huge success its just needed to all the majority of people out there aquire common sense. Easy uh? Will MS start to advertise now on tv?

    The ad could be something along the lines:

    "Get used to. Common Sense is all you need! Who the hell shut down the computer now anyway. Morons do. Use common sense. Are you annoying by being kicked out of the Desktop and the endless garbage/duplicated shortcuts on start screen? That's nothing, c'mon. Just use common sense."

    Altough i dont think its possible to merge the UI's. I think that they can exists both. But Desktop being the 1 citizen on non-touch and vice-versa. They must be separated. But that's just my opinion.

    As crude as it might sound one of the reasons Microsoft fail with phones, is just because of branding image. Apple has much higher brand. Microsoft has a negative image. I think that in part is just a stupid fashion. Apple is cooler, etc. But one of the reasons why MS created this hatred and bad reputation was because of Gates/MS monopoly tactics to sink competion. Also this forcing Metro in users is what Microsoft bad legacy is all about. The worst part of the legacy. The same tactics is used today. You will see like windows phone the prices of games 3x the prices of Android and IPhone just because of the xbox live.

    Microsoft only need to make people gain common sense. Then Windows 8 will be a sucess.

    MS need to clean that up. For instance they should make half of their net revenue income to donate to the poor and developing countries and education. Period. Like Bill Gates is doing. That is the first step. WTF does the CEO take it all? Microsoft dont invest all the income money, because it's almost impossible. Its an absurd. So make it usefull. Second Ballmer must go. He might stay in the company, but he really dont help the company being the CEO. Really who take this guy seriously?

    Lots of people look at my windows phone and they say its really cool and fluid and bla, bla. But it doesn't have the apple in it. The brand is WAY WAY more then massive publicity and yelling like a nuts Developers, developers, developers.

  260. Developers, Developers, Developers. says:

    Sorry its not Branden, but Common Sense i agree with. I agree with Branden with very little..

  261. Braden says:

    @Pol "don’t want to “pin” it to my taskbar I don’t like the clutter on my desktop"

    The taskbar and desktop are different things. Yes I like a clean desktop to, thus why you put your apps in the taskbar, as I previously said.

    @Pol "It seems that you cannot understand that there are people (the majority) that DON’T LIKE METRO"

    Naturally this site here is going to have the worst opinions, no real statistical study has been done. I have seen just as many, if nor more people, saying they like it. Lets what see happens with further tweaks, and when people have longer to test it. I think some users haven't installed it, or only gave it a brief demo, before starting to complain. No matter what you can't win, MS is normally accused of not innovating at all, and barely making any changes.

    @Pol

    Stick with Windows 7, if it's all to much for you. But personally I still feel productive, and am enjoying improvements across the board in Windows 8, there is enough stuff in Windows 8 to make it a worthwhile update for some desktop users

  262. lol says:

    The taskbar and desktop are different things. Yes I like a clean desktop to, thus why you put your apps in the taskbar, as I previously said.

    So clean Desktop, cluttered taskbar.

  263. @lol says:

    @lol "So clean Desktop, cluttered taskbar"

    So winkey, type, enter. Bang done

    Or pin more primary applications to start screen

    Or press WIn+Q, and scroll mouse, to navigate all programs list, the same one you would have used in old start screen (yes a little more mouse travel, but no opening folder hierarchies up)

  264. @@lol says:

    @@lol

    Well i just HATE 1 dimension mess shortcuts Metro, different context. Everytime i do it, i just wanna puke…

  265. Consumers Consumers Consumers says:

    @Developers, Developers, Developers.

    “New Fingerprints 8!… yes its all what you need, who said that you’re going to do better work with an old fashioned keyboard and a mouse! No way, use your filthy fingers to do all your work instead, we give you a full box of napkins to clean your monitor!, Fast & Fluid, put all your programs on the desktop, the toolbar, the start screen, put it everywhere, use common sense 2000, is a new era, are you to sissy to know every detail of your programs? That will be no problem anymore just wait to see all your programs under Metro Apps!, that’s it, With funny colors, big buttons, even your kids will be able to put a red spot on your nose with Photoshop Metro”

  266. Pol says:

    @Braden

    You’re a master of rationality. You’re god.

  267. Braden says:

    @lol – "Well i just HATE 1 dimension mess shortcuts Metro, different context. Everytime i do it, i just wanna puke…"

    I think Windows 8 still needs better customization options, the only one I really like is black, with subtle ornate curves, see my start screen here

    imageshack.us/…/win8desktop01.png

  268. Dev, Dev, Dev says:

    @Consumers Consumers Consumers

    :) genius…

    Your ad could be while with one hand using the tablet and the other eating a nice big mac. Or better the big mac could be on top of the table.

  269. Pol says:

    Haha oh Braden… Your Start Screen Say it all…    :)

    Welcome, Windower.

  270. Braden says:

    @Pol – "Haha oh Braden… Your Start Screen Say it all…    :)"

    It says I'm testing the apps platform and games, as MS intends at a beta stage – it doesn't mean I love simplistic apps. I don't play with apps all day, as you can see I use professional tools. But I'm evaluating this for myself, but also considering the wider audience, that does like playing with apps etc. The start screen is up to for your own customization

  271. Pol says:

    Braden, you're a Windows user, I’m a Windows user… you're just from another generation. You like it, I don’t, that’s it, try to be more eclectic, just let's wait that Finger.. ehm.. Windows 8 release the official version.

  272. Braden says:

    See no matter what MS can't win. Because their will be always a compromise for one audience or another.

    But I think it's important that MS managed to combine better touch features for a new class of devices and a new generation (touch is not going away). Yet they managed for the most part, to keep a legacy desktop, and powerful features for those that need them.

  273. Consumers Consumers Consumers says:

    @Dev, Dev, Dev

    Yeah, BTW http://www.microsoft.com/…/default.aspx “Windows reimagined” and only show you a Tablet, that’s their focus, no more desktop, just tablets?

    No no, Steve Ballmer eating KFC, playing cut the rope, cheking all the mails from his fans, and obviously the developers.

    Seriously, I like Microsoft but this guy have to go, with all the junk team that is destroying Microsoft.

  274. Braden says:

    @Consumers Consumers Consumers

    Many demos have been shown of Windows 8 on a desktop

    I'm sure most of the downloads of Windows 8 are for desktop, so most users have been referring to that experience

    The tablet part obviously excites the media more, most of the good features for desktop the media don't have a need for – so boring to them. Windows 8 hasn't be released yet obviously, so they don't need to drill early adapters and testers with what all the new desktop features are, these types of users find out for themselves.

    Do you know Ballmer eats KFC? Is it relevant to the discussion here? How do you know what the best move for MS is? Or do only care about your own agenda for using a computer? Is that agenda the one that makes the most money?

    Some people have to get down to a irrelevant personal attack, to try to justify their points of view…not cool

  275. Braden says:

    @Consumers Consumers Consumers

    Many demos have been shown of Windows 8 on a desktop

    I'm sure most of the downloads of Windows 8 are for desktop, so most users have been referring to that experience

    The tablet part obviously excites the media more, most of the good features for desktop the media don't have a need for – so boring to them. Windows 8 hasn't be released yet obviously, so they don't need to drill early adapters and testers with what all the new desktop features are, these types of users find out for themselves.

    Is it relevant eating KFC to the discussion here? How do you know what the best move for MS is? Or do only care about your own agenda for using a computer? Is that agenda the one that makes the most money?

    Some people have to get down to a irrelevant personal attack, to try to justify their points of view…not cool

  276. Dev, Dev, Dev says:

    Office 15:

    No more boring Word, Excel, Power Point and OneNote

    New Apps:

    – Tic Tac Toe.

    – Bing Cool Search Finds you everything.

    – Notepad Touch. Smiles are the default keyboard. You could switch to letters and number (Not Recommended).

    – Touch Me, just because its cool!!!

  277. Braden says:

    This forum is mostly fill of trolls. Hopefully MS can extract the good info from here, and filter out the crap.

    Discussion about Windows 8 is definitely important, but some people don't have anything intelligent to say.

  278. JGodo says:

    What I´m seing after trying metro start ( no metro OS wich I don´t like in desktop ) a lot more is that in real use it is not a replacement for the start menu… let me finish please:

    Original start menu is the place where you have all the shortcuts for all programs you have instaled including that things you barely use, as secondary configuration files and so on… But, if you alow all that to be in your start screen the start screen become barely usable due the quantity of icons/tiles all presented in a row, even if you try to organize them is a mess. So in real use I ended to remove all that secondary items from there and let pinned only the important ones, wich is the same I do with the desktop taskbar. So the start screen is not like the start menu, but like the taskbar itself. In my case my start menu has become a copy of my taskbar ( I don´t even have apps instaled, none of them, as I can´t see that things in full screen in my big monitor, sorry microsoft but I can´t with that ). The "all files" is in fact the new real start menu for me, as there is where ALL shorcuts, important or not, are stored. So the metro start screen has become seriosly redundant for me, as I work with the taskbar on desktop and the start screen is used only as a tunnel to reach desktop from the loging screen, no more, no less.

    Are you experience the same ?

    Do you let all secondary items pinned in start screen as they were in the start menu or you configure the start screen more like the desktop taskbar only with important items?

  279. Consumers Consumers Consumers says:

    @Braden

    “Many demos have been shown of Windows 8 on a desktop”

    Yeah but where’s the marketing pointing?

    “This forum is mostly fill of trolls. Hopefully MS can extract the good info from here, and filter out the crap.”

    No I’m not a troll I’m a frustrated Windows user who see Microsoft going way down to a big disaster.

    Btw this is a blog not a forum.

  280. Braden says:

    I find I can pin more important items to the start screen, than the old start menu (24" monitor), simply because it is full screen (even without scrolling). Tile or not, it just fits more in, I think a post on this site showed this a while ago. Of course slightly more mouse travel, but you can use directional pad as well, and if you use win key on keyboard to activate start, your mouse is already in middle if screen,. so maybe even less mouse travel, in some cases.

    The Start screen isn't meant for pinning everything to, you can get directly to the all apps screen by pressing Windows+Q.

    Generally I keep about 15 applications in my taskbar, and that feels comfortable on my 24" monitor.

  281. Braden says:

    I think MS need to have an option to turn off auto add applications to start screen. Then users can install as many applications as needed, and only add the shortcuts there when necessary.

  282. Braden says:

    "I think MS need to have an option to turn off auto add applications to start screen. Then users can install as many applications as needed, and only add the shortcuts there when necessary."

    Which means multi-select is also needed on all apps screen. So user can in one go, choose many items to pin to start

  283. Pol says:

    @JGodo

    Well that’s one of the things I was trying to explain, your start screen become like a virus or something ugly you don’t want to see, not only that, if you go to all apps I use a lot the Notepad, so I have to pin the Notepad to Start screen, then I go to a desktop program, let’s say Photoshop, working on a layer, I cross the pointer of my mouse trough the layer and boom the charms appear, then I want to use notepad, so, all the way to the start screen and what I do, put the Icon on my taskbar? To have two shortcuts? Is a mess and some people cannot understand that, to them that’s “negative” not realistic.,  

    BTW @Braden

    That’s stupid, to say that people are trolls, that’s something that you can expect from a 15 years old boy to say. I don’t like either the “new direction” of MS.

  284. Dev, Dev, Dev says:

    JGodo,

    Imagine in the future when you have lots of duplicated apps. Touch and non-touch. You will have a start screen All Apps which will have an X app Metro and X app Desktop, configuration files, unistaller, .chm. I cant imagine the confusion. This is a beta, I dont know how MS will gonna handle this. Several levels? Just like it is? Its wont gonna work. Its just fixes on holes.

    My feeling is that MS dont even focus on Desktop at this OS. Just tablets. Windows 9 will fix that. But the bad reputation this will cause among Desktop users is non-negligible. The lock screen going up, etc…

    To me the Desktop experience is really broken. After days using it, it didn't get better.

    Also if you are on tablet converter, if you have lots of Desktop apps to the start screen, when you are using the touch, you have lots of desktops tiles you WANT to avoid. You dont want to go to the Desktop on touch. You really dont. Its such a discomfort feeling. So it's really important to divide the roles. Start Screen should only open Metro Apps. Start Button opens Desktop apps. Really simple. At least the option to. Its way more intuitive to open apps inside their context. Give the tool for a user to get the job done with no hassles and no mess. If others want to keep mixing everything, fine.

    Braden if people complain its because they care. They want Windows 8 to suceed. I want. I doubt anyone on MS is listen tough.

  285. JGodo says:

    @Braden said: "The Start screen isn't meant for pinning everything to"

    So that´s the point, if the start screen is not meant to have all the items pinned, then is not the new start menu. Start menu is were you had all the items. It´s not better of worse because that, but is not true that in real use is the new start menu. It´s not. "All apps" is the real start menu.

    By the way I have 33 shortcuts in my taskbar – and is not filled – ( the same I have in my start screen plus desktop app, wich I think is gonna be the only tile to exist there any time soon as it is really the only I use ). All programs I use mostly and even that ones I not use as mostly are in my taskbar. I already had this confguration in win7. My taskbar is also configured to hide itself, so my desktop is not filled of icons but I have all really near. I like that way, its fast as hell.

  286. Consumers Consumers Consumers says:

    Hey Braden, sorry dude but the real Troll here is inside Microsoft.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch

  287. Braden says:

    @Pol "That’s stupid, to say that people are trolls"

    I was referring to Dev Dev Dev comment earlier, and I said "some" people, not all people, there have been many great points on these blog comments.

    @Pol

    I have said my opinion, as have you. I'm not saying your being negative, Just explaining how I use it. Sorry to say but I don't think your going to see a major change before release, some refinements maybe. Stick to Windows 7, and your all good, MS will have at least 10 years of support, maybe they'll convince you in a future version.

  288. Braden says:

    @JGodo "Start menu is were you had all the items. It´s not better of worse because that, but is not true that in real use is the new start menu. It´s not. "All apps" is the real start menu."

    Start screen and all apps are quite closely tied together. Almost the same interface, just one click between them.

    Even on Windows 7, the pinning part of the interface was separated from the All programs menu, by a fly out menu.

  289. Someone behind this nickname says:

    @Braden You realise this is not ideal.

    I mean should i stick 10 year on the same OS? While competion is evolving? Mac OSX and Ubuntu?

  290. JGodo says:

    For me its stange this situation. I really don´t like metro or metro apps ( in desktop ) and I will not unless they alow not full screen mode and/or nice desktop tiles.

    So in fact I only see metro at the start to reach desktop. No more. With all my apps pinned in the taskbar I never need to go to metro and I don´t. Charms can be a bit annoying at first, but you learn to avoid the corners very quicly and I already do it without thinking. So what I have at the end of the road? Win8 starts a lot -a LOT- faster than win7, even with the time I need to click desktop tile. And even if the improvements in desktop are not as visible or amazing as it could be, win8 in desktop seems to perform faster and smooth than win7. So for me this is a faster windows 7 with a extrange way to turn on.

  291. JGodo says:

    For me its stange this situation. I really don´t like metro or metro apps ( in desktop ) and I will not unless they alow not full screen mode and/or nice desktop tiles.

    So in fact I only see metro at the start to reach desktop. No more. With all my apps pinned in the taskbar I never need to go to metro and I don´t. Charms can be a bit annoying at first, but you learn to avoid the corners very quicly and I already do it without thinking. So what I have at the end of the road? Win8 starts a lot -a LOT- faster than win7, even with the time I need to click desktop tile. And even if the improvements in desktop are not as visible or amazing as it could be, win8 in desktop seems to perform faster and smooth than win7. So for me this is a faster windows 7 with a extrange way to turn on.

  292. Braden says:

    @Someone behind this nickname "I mean should I stick 10 year on the same OS? While competition is evolving? Mac OSX and Ubuntu? "

    Ubuntu doesn't run all professional apps, or games.

    OSX is also moving in a questionable direction. In my opinion more useful desktop features have been added to Windows 7 and 8, than OSX in recent years. Apple are also responsible for some ugly looking apps the OS ships with.

    There will no doubt be further iteration around Metro/desktop blend, I hope they can speed up iteration time, maybe have a Windows 8.5. They did a massive lot of work for Windows 8. but lots more needs to be done, no doubt.

  293. Dev, Dev, Dev says:

    Well i cant avoid Charms. :) Really. Maybe after 1 month i will. I dunno. I use fast movements with mouse. I dont like going slowly. I am always invoking unwanted charms. Its annoying. With the start screen i might dont like it, but you know you will use to open a desktop app. You are prepared to the full screen wall of light. With Charms, no. Boom suprise. Hi Charms! Nice to see you, now get lost. mouse left, right again.

  294. Dev, Dev, Dev or Someone with NickName says:

    I am curious how MS will handle updates. Windows 9 should be out on 2014/2015.

    But Metro must be updated every year like iOS and Android. So i guess it's going to change Windows major updates. Maybe its 8.3 8.7 and 9, or something like that. Maybe the Desktop only updates on Major versions and minor (year) Metro is updated. I dunno.

    But the thing is its a gradual update. Then from 8.7 to 9. Does it really makes sense to update? Its much less subtle changes. So the cost of license. Does it worth it?

  295. Adam says:

    Something that's always bothered me is multiple monitor support seems to be missing.  Now with Metro, it's even more annoying.  Why can't I have metro apps on multiple screens?  Why can't I dock windows to the left of my right monitor and to the right of my left monitor?

    I was really hoping that multiple monitors would be better supported, but along with not recognizing the edges of monitors side to side, I now have "new" Metro look on my main screen while all the others show the "old" desktop.   Oh… and to top it off, some of my monitors are portrait and others landscape.

    I know I'm not the only user that has this issue with multiple monitor support, so why can't it be addressed?

  296. JGodo says:

    @Dev Dev Dev

    There is another point here. Apple sell its Os very cheap, and android is free. Of curse Apple also sell overpriced hardware, but theyalso can do that because they earn a good money from their stores. So, another question is Microsoft with win8, or win9 will become a cheap OS so windows can compete in the same range of prices and microsoft start to earn money from the windows store to compensate that. I think a cheap windos 8 can be a mayor move that nobody expect.

  297. Dev, Dev, Dev says:

    I have an idea for Charms.

    Make the activation Charms time configurable. Now its 0 seconds. When you go to corner boom. If could configure to 1 second or 0.5 the unwanted would disappear. People would not mind to wait 0.5 seconds or 1 second. Or you could have like someone said the ability do disable charms on Desktop app, or when other desktop apps are on focus.

  298. SomeDev says:

    Do you think Windows 8 will drop price? Hmm…

    That's lots of money to Microsoft. There will be a double-edge to Microsoft. iOS is free. The updates. Mac OSX its really cheap. But iOS is free. Microsoft Windows is expensive, but with Metro it cant be. Maybe they keep the prices for enterprises and lower a little to home users. Or users just have to pay every 3 years. (Major release 9, 10).

  299. JGodo says:

    @Dev Dev Dev

    There is another point here. Apple sell its Os very cheap, and android is free. Of curse Apple also sell overpriced hardware, but theyalso can do that because they earn a good money from their stores. So, another question is Microsoft with win8, or win9 will become a cheap OS so windows can compete in the same range of prices and microsoft start to earn money from the windows store to compensate that. I think a cheap windos 8 can be a mayor move that nobody expect.

    Also, if microsoft starts to earn money from the store, they could give significative OS updates for free, and as you say, only sell very big mayor updates.

    Only dreaming.

  300. Pol says:

    @Braden

    Why you have to push over the opinions of others who don’t like Windows 8? That bothers you? Is an Issue to you?

    “Stick to Windows 7”, “Stick to Windows 7”, “Stick to Windows 7”, is that the solution? You can’t see the problems because you’re in the “immersive” world of Microsoftland, can you make an abstract conjecture of what we’re exposing?

    “Maybe they'll convince you in a future version.” Yeah right id they still going in this direction? Ha!.

    @JGodo

    Don’t try to explain the problems, Braden cannot tolerate that!…

    MS never put the focus on Desktops users, just on tablets you can see that on every video, Windows 8 already have a bad reputation to me, especially when I heard things like this from Sinofsky “and I promise you, you'll gonna have fingerprints all over your monitor" they are expecting to us to use the Desktop as a big mobile device, and seems that Braden can see that. We want to make a better Windows 8 not a garbage.

  301. Pol says:

    @Dev, Dev, Dev

    The charms are like having a retard taskbar. The ugly sister or something.

    @Someone behind this nickname

     “@Braden You realize this is not ideal.

    I mean should I stick 10 year on the same OS? While competion is evolving? Mac OSX and Ubuntu?”

    He cannot see that, he’s blinded by the fanaticism, is like religious people they cannot tolerate the realism.

    Meanwhile Apple surely will learn about how wrong is Windows 8 and surely will make a nice move.

  302. Dev, Dev, Dev says:

    Yes Apple will learn. I believe that Apple will merge both IPhone and MacOSx, but on a clever way. Not mixing it in a hybrid form. Then MS is in trouble, because the iphone factor might be too strong. People would wont mind to make the switch to MacOS unified IPhone system. I think this is the reason MS is trying to get there first. Its a race time.

    Meanwhile maybe Google just should buy Ubuntu. And integrate Android with Ubuntu. Change the UI and Boom. Chrome OS is a joke, IMHO.

    yes charms are weirdo. But at least with if choose to activate only 1 second  or so, i could ignore it when i dont want to use it.

  303. Braden says:

    @Pol “Stick to Windows 7”, is that the solution?

    Sorry, but I'm being realistic, it sounds like you want changes that probably aren't possible at the beta stage. Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought it would mostly be refinement from here on out.

    @Pol "MS never put the focus on Desktops users"

    If that's true, why improve windows explorer, task manager, file history, boot from USB key, refresh, reset, cloud services, zip/iso/virtual HDD/anti-virus integration, and other new security features, multi-monitor is slightly better with option for taskbar and wallpaper per monitor (but yes new issues). The boot improvements, and general responsiveness, less RAM also apply to desktop

    @Pol

    I was extending it out to ten years, I'm sure MS will bring it tighter together well before then. Obviously Mac OSX is an alternative that can run the applications necessary to do everything you need.

    As I said earlier I think some improvement before release will help Windows 8, but I don't think it's as bad as some people make out (personally I'm enjoying it, and requesting some tweaks to improve it). MS have got lots of work ahead of them after Windows 8, but so do other companies like Apple, OSX is not going to sit still – who knows what iOS and OSX are going to transform into.

    Microsoft have made there move on the chess board, I personally feel it's to late, to move it now. They just need to refine it to the max before release, and keep iterating, at a faster rate.

    But who knows just my opinion, lets see what happens in the future.

  304. Pol says:

    @Braden

     A:    “Sorry, but I'm being realistic, it sounds like you want changes that probably aren't possible at the beta stage. Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought it would mostly be refinement from here on out.”

    B:    “  As I said earlier I think some improvement before release will help Windows 8, but I don't think it's as bad as some people make out (personally I'm enjoying it, and requesting some tweaks to improve it). MS have got lots of work ahead of them after Windows 8, but so do other companies like Apple, OSX is not going to sit still – who knows what iOS and OSX are going to transform into.

    Microsoft have made there move on the chess board, I personally feel it's to late, to move it now. They just need to refine it to the max before release, and keep iterating, at a faster rate.

    But who knows just my opinion, lets see what happens in the future.”

    A: “it sounds like you want changes that probably aren't possible”

    B: “As I said earlier I think some improvement before release will help Windows 8”

    So… the improvement that I want, and some other people want “probably aren't possible”

    But …. “Some improvement before release will help”

    That’s a huge contradiction.

    And when I said "MS never put the focus on Desktops users" I was referring to the Marketing they are doing. Are you reading things out of context?

  305. Pol says:

    One of the things I found funny is this:

         -“"Metro" is based on the design principles of classic Swiss graphic design. (RIGHT) Early glimpses of this style could be seen in Windows Media Center for Windows XP Media Center Edition which favored text as the primary form of navigation. This interface carried over into later iterations of Media Center. In 2006, Zune refreshed its interface using these Metro principles. Microsoft designers decided to redesign the interface and with more focus on clean typography and less on UI chrome. The Zune Desktop Client was also redesigned with an emphasis on typography and clean design that was different from the Zune's previous Portable Media Center based UI. Flat colored "live tiles" were introduced into the Metro design language during the early Windows Phone's studies. Microsoft has begun integrating these elements of the Metro design language into its other products, with direct influence being seen in newer versions of Windows Live Messenger and Live Mesh.”

    You can be inspired by something great but you cannot execute the “principles” on everything, Swiss graphic design was something way bigger than just applying poorly the inspiration, Windows 8 have nothing about “Swiss graphic design” that’s an insult.

    And that’s proves that Windows team designers minds are full of vagueness.

    The only thing I can say its great its Zune media player. But you cannot give us a fullscreen with tiles and colored block (which colors have nothing to do with Swiss graphic design) as an interface.

  306. Pol says:

    So Braden… the people who enjoy Windows 8 have more possibilities to achieve any improvement?

    And those who don’t cannot achieve any change? That’s awesome… I’m buying your brain.

  307. JGodo says:

    @Pol

    It´s clear that this is the windows for tablets. If it´s not, I mean, if Microsoft don´t go for tablets now (and they already are late!) they are over. I don´t think like others PCs are dead, but the Pc market is. Everyone that need a Pc already have one and people don´t actualize their systems as fast as Microsoft would need to continue mastering the ring.

    Tablet is where the bussines are now as it is a nearly new market wich still has a lot of posibilities. The day will come when everybody will have a tablet and then mental devices will become the fashion and that will not mean either PCs or Tablets will be dead, but the market will, not because the mental device, but becuse everybody will have a Pc and a tablet… or a device that can be the two things at the same time.

    Microsoft is entering too late in this fight so they need to offer something nobody has: a full OS shared between tablets and PCs (and may be mental devices in the future). This is not only one new thing, but two:

    – full OS on tablet

    – Shared OS between devices

    And I think that concept is not only great, but also evident.

    I told time ago, far before microsft anounce win8, to a linux/android fanboy friend of mine that things will become interesting in tablets when microsoft put over the table a fully OS for tablets that actualy works nice. I never wanted an iPad because is dumb and nothing more. I wanted something like an iPad to navigate from the sofa with fingers but then I could plug in a keyboard and a mouse and even a big monitor or any other device and use it as a full pc with all my productivity apps running in it. He laugh a lot of me: -that will never happen. He said. -will see. I said.

    The day has come and win8 is just that. Is not like I imagined it but it do the same and this is the first time I´m thinking in buy a tablet to replace my labtop, not my workstation.

    Metro UI is so dumb because its target are the iPad people and mainly because, as we all know, touch is dumb itself. Touch will never be compatible with a lot of proffesional work.-and I don´t care is Sinisky don´t think this way. If he think it will be, he is clearly wrong- If you don´t agree you can test this easily: move your mouse along the screen, you only need to move the hand. Now do the same thing with your finguer in the screen, you need to move all the arm. Now do that for 8 hours and then we talk again. No graphic designer will want fingers all over his super fine calibrated color monitor. That will never happen. Brushes were invented before weels, and even before human control of fire, to get ride of fingers poor precision even in the caves walls. There is a reason for that. Fingers are not for real precision work.

    So metro is as it need to be. We don´t like it because we are not the potential public and we are not even using the propper device to enjoy it. I have not tryed metro in tablet, but is not difficult to imagine that it would run fine and be very confortable.

    Metro is build from scratch while win7 is a very very nice and practical desktop OS, so is logical that microsoft concentrate itself in metro for this release. They are going to start a new fight. Desktop one is already over and microsoft won that one.

    But to build that monster with two faces is not easy. Not at all. And the result of course has many flaws. We are still far from the final release and testing a beta version. I think Microsoft can´t afford a new vista fail. That will let them out of the game even for next releases. If windows tablets are going to work they need to work now.

    The problems:

    But I think, and I´m sure Microsoft already know this, that this tablet battle is going to be fight in desktops. They need win8 to work well in desktop so win8 people want a win8 tablet. They can´t compete with the iPad in the tablet arena. Ipad has the name and even for many people a tablet is an iPad. They need to enter the fight from the desktop the same way apple is fighting the desktop from the tablet arena.

    This is why they are not going to split the metro in another OS and that is why they need to force desktop users to discover metro. That is not fair for users that are not interested in metro, but if they don´t do that, you can start moving to apple or linux, because Microsoft would be out of the game. They have not choice.

  308. JGodo says:

    @Pol

    It´s clear that this is the windows for tablets. If it´s not, I mean, if Microsoft don´t go for tablets now (and they already are late!) they are over. I don´t think like others PCs are dead, but the Pc market is. Everyone that need a Pc already have one and people don´t actualize their systems as fast as Microsoft would need to continue mastering the ring.

    Tablet is where the bussines are now as it is a nearly new market wich still has a lot of posibilities. The day will come when everybody will have a tablet and then mental devices will become the fashion and that will not mean either PCs or Tablets will be dead, but the market will, not because the mental device, but becuse everybody will have a Pc and a tablet… or a device that can be the two things at the same time.

    Microsoft is entering too late in this fight so they need to offer something nobody has: a full OS shared between tablets and PCs (and may be mental devices in the future). This is not only one new thing, but two:

    – full OS on tablet

    – Shared OS between devices

    And I think that concept is not only great, but also evident.

    I told time ago, far before microsft anounce win8, to a linux/android fanboy friend of mine that things will become interesting in tablets when microsoft put over the table a fully OS for tablets that actualy works nice. I never wanted an iPad because is dumb and nothing more. I wanted something like an iPad to navigate from the sofa with fingers but then I could plug in a keyboard and a mouse and even a big monitor or any other device and use it as a full pc with all my productivity apps running in it. He laugh a lot of me: -that will never happen. He said. -will see. I said.

    The day has come and win8 is just that. Is not like I imagined it but it do the same and this is the first time I´m thinking in buy a tablet to replace my labtop, not my workstation.

    Metro UI is so dumb because its target are the iPad people and mainly because, as we all know, touch is dumb itself. Touch will never be compatible with a lot of proffesional work.-and I don´t care is Sinisky don´t think this way. If he think it will be, he is clearly wrong- If you don´t agree you can test this easily: move your mouse along the screen, you only need to move the hand. Now do the same thing with your finguer in the screen, you need to move all the arm. Now do that for 8 hours and then we talk again. No graphic designer will want fingers all over his super fine calibrated color monitor. That will never happen. Brushes were invented before weels, and even before human control of fire, to get ride of fingers poor precision even in the caves walls. There is a reason for that. Fingers are not for real precision work.

    So metro is as it need to be. We don´t like it because we are not the potential public and we are not even using the propper device to enjoy it. I have not tryed metro in tablet, but is not difficult to imagine that it would run fine and be very confortable.

    Metro is build from scratch while win7 is a very very nice and practical desktop OS, so is logical that microsoft concentrate itself in metro for this release. They are going to start a new fight. Desktop one is already over and microsoft won that one.

    But to build that monster with two faces is not easy. Not at all. And the result of course has many flaws. We are still far from the final release and testing a beta version. I think Microsoft can´t afford a new vista fail. That will let them out of the game even for next releases. If windows tablets are going to work they need to work now.

    The problems:

    But I think, and I´m sure Microsoft already know this, that this tablet battle is going to be fight in desktops. They need win8 to work well in desktop so win8 people want a win8 tablet. They can´t compete with the iPad in the tablet arena. Ipad has the name and even for many people a tablet is an iPad. They need to enter the fight from the desktop the same way apple is fighting the desktop from the tablet arena.

    This is why they are not going to split the metro in another OS and that is why they need to force desktop users to discover metro. That is not fair for users that are not interested in metro, but if they don´t do that, you can start moving to apple or linux, because Microsoft would be out of the game. They have not choice.

    But, if forcing us to use metro in a environment wich is clearly not suitable for that interfaces, they only achieve general public to hate metro. Then the move will be the mayor great face palm ever. Thats the "bet" that they are talking about I think and they have to.

  309. Braden says:

    @Pol "But …. “Some improvement before release will help” That’s a huge contradiction."

    Well what do you want? I'm under the impression quite an extensive set of changes?

    What I have been listing earlier here are small iterations, that improve the functionality of the system they have put in place.

    So not really a contradiction, I thought I was quite clear. The stuff I have been listing seems reasonable at a beta stage.

    @Pol

    Cool yeah I know about Swiss graphic design. I get it, you hate Windows 8. However they are not going to start over

  310. Consumers Consumers Consumers says:

    @ Dev, Dev, Dev

    “Office 15: No more boring Word, Excel, Power Point and OneNote

    New Apps:  Tic Tac Toe.

    Bing Cool Search Finds you everything.

    Notepad Touch. Smiles are the default keyboard. You could switch to letters and number (Not Recommended).

    Touch Me, just because its cool!!!”

    Of course Office 15 would not be boring they are gonna realease the campaing with this song http://www.youtube.com/watch

    “Touch me 15” cause when you’re so obnoxious about how you make your work you have to touch everything, smelly fingers on, stupid mouse and keyboard off, just dance and take a lot of LSD!”

  311. Consumers Consumers Consumers says:

    @ Dev, Dev, Dev

    “Office 15: No more boring Word, Excel, Power Point and OneNote

    New Apps:  Tic Tac Toe.

    Bing Cool Search Finds you everything.

    Notepad Touch. Smiles are the default keyboard. You could switch to letters and number (Not Recommended).

    Touch Me, just because its cool!!!”

    Of course Office 15 would not be boring they are gonna realease the campaing with this song http://www.youtube.com/watch

    “Touch me 15” cause when you’re so obnoxious about how you make your work you have to touch everything, smelly fingers on, stupid mouse and keyboard off, just dance and take a lot of LSD!”

  312. Pol says:

    @Braden

    We don’t want an extensive set of changes, Its metro a big change? Just left the nice changes but people don’t want the Metro interface it’s that hard to understand how many times should I have to repeat?

    I don’t “hate” Windows 8 I just don’t like the Metro crap, Metro apps, Charms, hot corners, Is that TOO hard to understand? How old are you.

  313. THE GURUS says:

    We are the WINDOWS GURUS

    We are the CUSTOMERS

    We do not FORGIVE

    We do not FORGET

    Expect US

  314. Braden says:

    @Pol "Just left the nice changes but people don’t want the Metro interface"

    Yeah it's a possibility, it wouldn't necessarily be very elegant though. Keeping both sets of code and interfaces as options. I don't see how it would work. People would then complain how messy it is, and how MS can't commit to any change, and over the long course, just further confuse new users. But who knows. Have to see what MS chooses to do – good or bad.

    Personally I feel it would be wrong to keep around the old start menu…

    @JGodo

    Made a compelling argument why MS needs metro, even for desktop, and for new hybrid devices.

  315. Pol says:

    "Personally I feel it would be wrong to keep around the old start menu…"

    Well stick to your toy, in the meantime I wait to see what's going Apple to do, Mountain Lion at least its a real Os, :) then I'll wait till Windows 9 without all the garbage.

  316. Consumers Consumers Consumers says:

    hey Braden relax dude let the Doors touch your windower soul

    http://www.youtube.com/watch

  317. Pol says:

    @JGodo

    “It´s clear that this is the windows for tablets.” (Something that Braden cannot see)

    Microsoft is targeting a mental consumer, there are targeting every emotional consumer, with emotional tactics, that’s seems reasonable but at the bottom you will have a horde of chickens without head just buying what is on vogue.

    But they’re late why? Poor campaigns poor branding, and we the Windows users want to help, but they seems to not care about, Tablet is a concept, just see the etymology of the word “tablet” is not a Personal Computer, not a Workstation.

    What I find annoying is to have two interfaces merged, I don’t need and I never will buy a tablet, I’m the kind of person who seeks to disconnect all the technology and to do more activities without any computer device.

    There’s a philosophy behind the way you use a computer the common misconception is that computers are for playing games, to stay on YouTube, to navigate on internet and that mentality is what is destroying the computer world. Specially the desktop Pc Experience.

    People now are just focus on trends, on what’s new, on the Start Screen, on Apps, that’s just wrong, what I find interesting is that the most innovative, creative ideas I see came from people who only use the PC using the reason, not their emotions not their fanaticism.

    Metro Ui is dumb for one reason, the target as you said, they are just focusing on a little part of the whole panorama, the most stupid thing is hear thing like “Businessmen’s and professional will love it” There’s no way that Pc users are going to change their visual device like the monitor, to replace with a touch screen to work on it? To look like a stupid working on it, to make bad work on it?

  318. Consumers Consumers Consumers says:

    Braden just curiosity what kind of music did you listen?

  319. I-DotNET says:

    Hello again Stephen,

    I just bought a new tablet this week.  Can you guess which one I bought?  (HINT: The company's name begins with an 'A'.)

    Your telemetry data suggests that users who don't like change are simply rejecting Windows 8 because they don't like changes.  If that's true, why would someone like me so openly embrace change and buy your competitor's product?

    You didn't have an answer for me the last time I asked this question, so I'm not expecting an answer this time.  But the backlash against Windows 8 cannot be ignored forever.  So, my question has morphed to this: If Windows 8 turns out to be as big of a disaster as Vista, will you resign?

  320. Braden says:

    @Pol

    Cool sounds like a better fit for you. I'm well versed in using a Mac, and keep up to date with Apple's latest features. But you don't see me moving, nor will most users.  You have your opinions, I have mine. I'm currently less favourable of Mac's, I understand the feature difference etc., but I still prefer Windows, and I will remain productive with applications like Maya, Photoshop etc., now and into the future

  321. Pol says:

    @Braden

    Having a Mac or a Windows PC doesn’t make you more or less productive. Is the way you use the tools.

  322. Consumers Consumers Consumers says:

    Do you have an annoying friend? A person you hate too much? That’s not problem to you anymore, give him a Pc computer, with Windows Fingerprints 8!

  323. Braden says:

    @Pol "Having a Mac or a Windows PC doesn’t make you more or less productive. Is the way you use the tools."

    Exactly, the point I was trying to make is, Windows 8 has not killed my desktop productivity. Windows 8 still has everything to offer from Windows 7. The only difference is the start screen vs start menu. Not at all a massive deal breaker, and every feature is still supported (except jumplists). The benefit of the new start screen, app platform, charms, touch support, allow for a whole new class of devices, give MS a shot at competing in tablet market. As someone who cares about Windows, it is important than MS have a shot in the tablet market.

    If this comes at the expense of annoying those dedicated to the start screen, so be it. MS need to move ahead.

  324. Pol says:

    "MS need to move ahead" go ahead… Ms can go anywhere, but if anywhere is the abyss I prefer to jump of the bandwagon.

  325. Consumers Consumers Consumers says:

    @Braden

    Do you listen to Industrial Goth? Trance? Rave?

  326. Consumers Consumers Consumers says:

    Jobs: "Your time is limited, so don’t waste it living someone else’s life. Don’t be trapped by dogma – which is living with the results of other people’s thinking. Don’t let the noise of other’s opinions drown out your own inner voice. And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is secondary.”

    Ballmer: Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers.

  327. Braden says:

    @ Consumers Consumers Consumers

    Please go post on Apple Insider, where all the fans and shareholders hang out. I could take your stupidest quote in your life, and judge you on as well. Please go read your bible named "Steve Jobs by Walter Iscaacson", and leave people here to discuss what they believe is an important update to Windows

  328. @Steven Sinofsky

    Here is one case scenario where Windows 8 UI wise fails big time.

    Windows 7 -> Click Start Menu -> Type Event Viewer -> Event Viewer Shows Up -> You can run it or right click on it to pin to Taskbar.

    All this is happening within Windows 7 Desktop, smooth transition from one to another action.

    Windows 8 -> Click Metro Start Menu Thumbnail Image in Left Lower Corner -> Type Event Viewer -> Event Viewer is not found -> You have to do additional click on Label called Settings -> View Event Logs shows up -> You can run it but you cannot pin it to Taskbar.

    Work Flow UI Wise is completely broken. You start from Desktop -> Metro Start Menu which is complete mindset transition -> For the moment Average Users will be confused cause there is no any indication that they should start typing -> You run Event Viewer -> You are taken back to Desktop and again you cannot pin it.

    Steven you guys went against all UI Principles. I don't want to sound harsh Windows 8 is Epic Failure design wise. I bet i can do better than whole your design team given 25 years of experience in Designing and Programming.

  329. Braden says:

    @red77star

    You need to go to setting for Start Screen and activate Show administration tool, then when you search it will find it. The logs are a setting, which cannot be pinned.

  330. PinYourself says:

    So I have to re-learn how to use my “desktop”, so I can be executing 2 applications side by side. Or I could learn how to use a Unix variation and make my CV 400% more valuable. Personally I cannot do either at the moment, I still refuse to trash 20 years of experience on a user interface that was build out of common sense and functionality, no just rectangles.

    It is another epic failure like WPF which ended up being more complex and half-baked than JavaScript. Is Microsoft losing it or something? They really cannot cope with any major changes, all their moves seem spasmodic and they keep missing the target.

    Is this the last twitching of a dying man? Yes I know they have a lot of the market and I do contribute to that every day in my work. But they seem to be against business lately with their confusing and irrelevant messages. When I am about to get huge wins in getting my company using more Microsoft products they are coming out flushing Metro cr…p and making it embarrassing defending Microsoft products in the workplace.

    For all these kiddies out there that think Metro is the future of Windows, think again. Metro is in your desktop so they can lock your computer and your choice of applications. Metro is taking your PC away and turning it into an ugly consumer device. If common sense prevails Metro will be the end of Windows because within a year kiddies will be fed up with the new toy and serious users will be trying to find alternatives that increase their productivity.

  331. This video about a first-time Win8 CP user is very illustrative:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch

    Seriously, Microsoft, we want to love Windows 8, but you're making this really, really hard. I know you have very deep discussions and internal battles over these things. But you're having the wrong discussions, and you're fighting the wrong battles. Love the underpinnings on Win8. I even love the Metro direction. I don't love the complete lack of discoverability, the lack of common sense features, the lack of pragmatism in your UI logic.

  332. LeoStorm85 says:

    Can I ask for an "always on top" option for every desktop window. It is really incredible this feature is not yet available.

  333. Guybrush Threepwood says:

    Why can't the "Computer" folder be shown on desktop like in Windows 7? In Win8 you have to create a shortcut  :(((

  334. TS says:

    Small ideas to help make w8 more easy:

    – Right-click on start button/hot corner inferior left, display the shut down options. You could also use the middle mouse button, for something.

    – Charms: Make configurable via control panel. An option when on Desktop app to change the time of activation on hot-corner. Now its 0 seconds. One can customize to change it to 1 second or 0.5s. That way the user on Desktop dont get accidental (annoying) charms anymore. This setting is needed on Desktop only. On Metro apps it make sense to be always instant. This could be only on every hot corner. An time configuration activation in seconds from 0 to 2. (Just on Desktop or Desktop apps maximized).

    – Start Screen dual/shortcuts:

    When there are 2 versions of the same app, like IE10 or Photoshop Metro and Desktop you could merge the tiles into 1, and have some indication on tile. A colored Border or something like that. One mouse click->Metro App, double-click->Desktop app. The same with touch Tap once open Metro or double tap to Desktop app.

  335. THE GURUS says:

    We are the WINDOWS GURUS

    We are the CUSTOMERS

    We do not FORGIVE

    We do not FORGET

    Expect US

  336. Matt Sharpe wrote:

    """ I would summarize my concerns about Windows 8/metro but it would be far more efficient to link to this excellently written piece:

    http://www.livingdigitally.net/…/windows-8-a-giant-misstep-forward.html """

    Great article, there.

    The author absolutely nails the SS and Metro UI experience.

    He is just spot on!

    Everyone should read it. Especially the Windows 8 dev team.

  337. EdP says:

    I installed Metro then simulated my normal working habits by downloading a selection of the typical applications that I use by downloading them from PortableApps.com. The Metro screen of course grew almost uncontrollably and mouse travel distance to open new applications grew ever larger. I found using Metro a growing exercise in frustration, and I'm afraid I became reconciled to looking at other alternatives to Windows for desktop use.

    Then came Start8 from Stardock http://www.ghacks.net/…/stardocks-start8-brings-back-the-windows-8-start-menu once installed all my frustrations disappeared, while retaining 95% of Metro's look & feel. Please purchase the rights to this from Stadock!

  338. Pax says:

    @Guybrush Threepwood

    You need to right-click the Desktop and choose "Personalize". There you will find a link saying "Choose desktop icons"

    This is also the way it was done in Win7, so nothing has changed in that regard.

    A fresh install of Win7 didn't show the Computer, Network and User folder either.

  339. What I would change:

    – allow Metro apps to run in windowed mode (similar to Mac Lion’s fullscreen on/off)

    – allow Metro apps to install from other sources than the Windows 8 Store – I would like to be able to get Metro apps from AppWhirr as well

  340. Raiden Ninja Robot Genius says:

    By popular request, please leave the Start (with the new Windows 8 logo) Button where it is as in Windows 7 on the Desktop and with the same program scrolling list as it is in Windows 7.

    The New Windows 8 Logo is a larger rectangle, so it would have more space to be clicked. Right clicking on it would display the Quick Links if necessary. Now those Quick Links in a tiny DOT in the lower left corner look out of place and with no meaning and difficult to reach.

    Control – Esc (and left clicking on it, of course) = opens the Classic Start Button with the new Windows 8 Logo

    Winkey = opens the Metro Start Menu

    Got it? So, do it please, don't disappoint your customers, please. Listen to people, listen to people, listen to people…

    There are two control panels in Windows 8 as of now, so, two Start buttons or keys can coexist, as well…

  341. Guybrush Threepwood says:

    @Pax

    Thank you. This shows how difficult it is to find things in Windows, LoL!

    In Windows 7 I right clicked from the Start Menu the "Computer" item and selected to display it on desktop, was easier.

  342. Pax says:

    @Guybrush Threepwood.

    Ha, I didn't even know you could do it like that… :)

    Well, this just goes to show, that you live and learn.

    Ps. Love your nick! The.coolest.pirate…Ever! :o)

  343. Guillaume Soucy says:

    Hi,

    Someone know if the skydrive app can be installed on windows xp?

    Regards,

  344. Consumers Consumers Consumers says:

    @Braden

    No I’m not going to post anything on Apple, I’m not a fan, why? Cause I want a BETTER Windows 8. Stop winning about people real complains don’t you see that the only fanatic here is you? With your windows tiles crap?, I’m a windows user, I just want a BETTER Os, not a crap.

  345. Consumers Consumers Consumers says:

    @Braden

    You don't read so much don't you? "Don’t be trapped by dogma – which is living with the results of other people’s thinking"

    You’re so trapped by the dogma of Ballmer foolishness

  346. Consumers Consumers Consumers says:

    @Braden

    You don't read so much don't you? "Don’t be trapped by dogma – which is living with the results of other people’s thinking"

    You’re so trapped by the dogma of Ballmer foolishness

  347. Consumers Consumers Consumers says:

    @Braden

    Do you read books? I suggest you some nice authors, Albert Camus, Jean Paul Sartre, Carlos Vaz Ferreira, some of them explain very well what absurdism mean, then you will see yourself reflected on it. Or try to read something about Analytic Philosophy, Classic Logic, then try to refresh your brain, consider other people opinions, be wise, use the reason, don’t use your passions to judge, that only leads to irrationality.

  348. Pol says:

    @PinYourself

    That’s true they want to trash 20 years of experience, given us a retard start screen with colored tiles, the Brad.. I mean the kiddies loves metro trash, it “looks cool”, is “the future”, they treat Windows 8 like a utopia made real, like an ultimate mystic miracle. But the productivity is gone.

  349. Consumers Consumers Consumers says:

    Meanwhile on Apple

    http://www.youtube.com/watch

    A real Os is given to them

  350. B8Blog says:

    A reminder that comments directed at individuals are not appropriate for the forum and that staying on topic is appreciated by all.

  351. Emannxx says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch

    Right now, that video explains THE BIGGEST problem with Windows 8. Simply put: It's hard to understand – for basic users – how Windows 8 works, and how to access the "hidden" menus and features. Microsoft MUST do something about this or Windows 8 might be facing it's death sooner than expected – a total failure.

  352. TS says:

    Some kind of tutorial. Some video tiles. I think MS will pull some Video tiles on start screen. Users will open those videos, that will help them learning the new OS.

  353. TS says:

    I think Metro needs to grow on a person. I hated the first two hours, too much different things. All it was on my mind was, WTF, WTF! This is a nightmare. Much better now, it's growing, but there are things that still need be to refined. Maybe MS get to this conclusions after months of using. But users when on first time wont have that process of aquired pratice and learning. MS should go slowly.

    Having the start button at least as a taskbar option, or pinnable should give MS a safety net. It's safe to have it. User thinks: "I insert the start button, i am home now." After days, months living with Metro maybe they start to think differently. Let me try without the start button, etc…

    I might dont agree, but if Microsoft wants Metro to suceed they should do it in smaller steps. Maybe in 9 they could remove the start button. Now make it optional. At least make it optional.

    To me charms getting on your way its more annoying with mouse on Desktop maximized apps. But to the general users the start button is the central point in Windows.

  354. Pol says:

    @Steven Sinofsky

    Mr. Sinofsky, Its true, maybe some comments are getting too much out off topic, maybe cause some Windows 8 devotees  are trying too hard to get their opinions over the real people complains, Windows Team need to refocus on what’s is important, not on fashions, we want to help, I personally want to help, as a Graphic Designer I want to express my opinions, personally don’t throw out the classic Windows logo that’s a huge mistake, I read all the entry on Pentagram website, Metro have nothing about Swiss Design and that’s not a bad thing, personally I think the design team should focus more on the aero feeling, or maybe to search new options.

    Windows 8 “hidden” features are great but when it comes to the Metro experience it’s hard to get it, it’s not a great feelings, I read all your post Mr. Sinofsky, but I think, and I would appreciate so much, a future post of possible changes based on the Consumer Previews opinions.

  355. NoName says:

    Without naming names…really? I have to watch a video to learn how to use an operating system after more than 20 years of experience building computers, installing operating systems, and programming on them on five different programming languages?

    If there is a new paradigm out there that makes sense, I will be the first to use it. On my desktop tiles do not make sense; the whole Metro doesn’t make any sense. I know how to use it and I spent days using it before even the latest release. Still doesn’t make any sense, now I ended up hating my Windows Phone 7 UI too, were before I was happy with it. I suspect that I am becoming allergic to the whole Metro Madness.

    Remember, the argument here is Productivity optimized desktop versus Facebook optimized one. I do not want any “start screen” opening a full size window on my 30” monitor, it is not just annoying, it is useless and moronic.

    Then again some people seem to prefer the Angry Birds optimized desktop, I respect that, but I rather have something more useful on my desk.

  356. Braden says:

    @NoName "Then again some people seem to prefer the Angry Birds optimized desktop, I respect that, but I rather have something more useful on my desk."

    I'm all about productivity to, I'm not using Maya, Photoshop etc. in the Start Screen. Once you have your main apps pinned to taskbar, are you really losing much productivity? – I'm not currently. Yes there is a context switch if doing a search, but number of keyboard presses are mostly the same.

    An app bar is needed when doing a file search, currently there is none. There at least need to be options like, show in explorer, open with, rename, delete.

  357. Pol says:

    I think Paula Scher was the wrong person to remake the Windows logo, she have a different background ironically she don’t like “Swiss graphic design” there are so many talented Graphic Designers that can do a better work, my opinion is to left the original logo intact. Just subtle changes. As I said the background changes on Windows 8 are great but the Metro UI is what mostly complains are related, the vagueness, the poor focus on desktops experience, etc.

  358. @Braden

    You just confirmed that Windows 8 UI is not an improvement over Windows 7 UI. Don't get me wrong I have Windows 7.5 Phone and Metro works great there. But, when i sit at my desktop computer with 27" LCD Monitor in front of me, i don't want to deal with it. It gets in a way of what i am trying to do.

  359. xx says:

    Well that’s one of the biggest problems with the new generations of kiddies, they think productivity is working on entertainment, social networks, to watch cat videos, to play world of warcraft. Cluttered taskbar, cluttered desktop, cluttered start screen.

  360. David says:

    The plan to force a touch UI on a desktop is very divisive. You should at the very least allow use of the start menu and booting into the classic desktop.

    http://www.infoworld.com/…/the-windows-8-tragedy-how-microsoft-can-avoid-disaster-188047

  361. Ryan says:

    After a few more days of using Windows 8 on a desktop, I have to say I do like it much more now.   Wish it worked a little better with multiple monitors; however, I am starting to see that Metro is faster than the traditional start menu.  People just have such a hard time with change.  Good Job Microsoft and thanks

  362. nulian says:

    @braden Why would you even pin everything on the taskbar yeah I do with some apps but the new metro menu with big items which you can put in categories is so much faster then the old windows 7/xp menu.

    Just take a small time to order everything and you can find your applications extremely fast.

  363. xx says:

    I think that Braden is Steve Ballmer Alter-ego.

  364. Braden says:

    @nulian "Why would you even pin everything on the taskbar"

    Some users are resistant to any change,  so I was just trying to say there are ways to stay in desktop longer.

    I pin most important stuff to taskbar, but yes, use the new Start Screen to organise more items. Here is my start screen.

    imageshack.us/…/win8desktop01.png

  365. xx says:

    Future Os conversations will be like “do you remember when Microsoft introduce us the metro interface with tiles? And Apps?” and everyone will start laughing by then the tablets fever will be vanished.

  366. Braden says:

    @xx "I think that Braden is Steve Ballmer Alter-ego."

    Haha I wouldn't mind being that rich

  367. xx says:

    "Some users are resistant to any change" haha nice one, one of the classic excuses.

  368. Windows 8 Metro UI: 7 things you may just hate says:

    As everybody knows, the most striking thing about Windows 8 is its Metro interface–those brightly colored tiles that serve as both shortcuts to programs and live widgets reporting data from those programs.

    The interface has been widely praised around the Web, and for good reason. It's a bold innovation (especially coming from a company that's normally so timid), it looks great, and it makes getting around Windows a lot more fun.

    But in the Windows 8 Consumer Preview, at least, Metro is as annoying as it is innovative, especially if you attempt to use it with a keyboard and mouse instead of with a touchscreen. Among other problems, its shortcuts are difficult to use, it disappears without warning, and it makes any attempt to change settings on your PC a scavenger hunt.

    It's important to remember that the Consumer Preview isn't final code, and Microsoft will–I hope–fix many of the problems that now afflict the OS before it releases its final product. But if you're thinking about downloading the preview version, you ought to know about these problems. And unfortunately, some of the issues are so fundamental that I wonder whether Microsoft can come up with satisfactory fixes for them in the upcoming months.

    (One caveat before I begin: I'm basing my criticisms on my experience using Windows 8 Consumer Preview on a dual-monitor desktop. My colleagues who have spent hands-on time with the OS on a Samsung tablet tell me, not surprisingly, that many of the problems I encountered didn't arise on the touch device. For a contrasting view of the Metro interface, see my colleague Nate Ralph's article "Windows 8 Metro UI: A Bold New Face for Windows.")

    Here's what's bothering me about Microsoft's new interface.

    There's a wide gap between Metro and the regular desktop.

    With a Windows 8 PC, you can either be in the Windows Phone 7-style Metro interface or on a desktop that closely resembles the traditional Windows 7 desktop. But these interfaces don't just offer two different ways to look at the same thing. They act more like two separate operating systems working side-by-side, with separate apps, different settings, and very different rules of operation.Take Internet Explorer, for instance. On the traditional desktop, IE by default has an ever-present address bar and navigation buttons, as you'd expect of a browser, and you can run the window maximized or not. In Metro, IE's address bar and navigation buttons mostly disappear once you're on a page; the window is always full-screen and you can't make it smaller.And as if it weren't confusing enough to have the same application operating differently depending on the interface you select, there's also this: Suppose that you're browsing in IE in the Metro interface, but then you switch to the regular desktop and click the IE icon there. You won't see the Web pages you were just surfing in Metro. Instead, you'll find yourself in a whole new instance of IE, starting from scratch. Experiences of this sort make Metro and the traditional desktop feel not like two UIs laid over the same operating system, but like two separate operating systems coexisting on the same machine.

    It's hard to stay in Metro.

    It may not be obvious from my complaining, but I like the Metro interface, which is why I'm frustrated that getting knocked out of it–especially on a dual-monitor system–is so easy.

    Typically, if you have two monitors, your primary monitor will use the Metro interface and the other will use the traditional desktop (unless you mirror the primary desktop on the secondary, but what's the point of that?). Click in a window on the non-Metro display, and your other screen automatically switches from Metro to traditional desktop. If you're on the Metro start page and you choose the wrong option, such as a shortcut to a non-Metro-ized application, you get bumped out of Metro.

    Metro shortcuts are tricky and annoying.

    Clearly Metro was designed, first and foremost, to work with a fingertip. But I found that trying to make it work with a mouse and a keyboard was often frustrating and seldom intuitive.

    To open the Metro start page, for instance, you drag your pointer to the lower left corner of your screen. A thumbnail image of the start page pops out. My instinct, honed by thousands of Flash interfaces on the Web, is to move my pointer into the popup and click. But in Windows 8, If you do that, you actually click whatever icon beneath the popup window your pointer happens to be resting on. In Windows 8, you have to keep your pointer off screen while you click. This change is easy to learn intellectually, but harder to make instinctual, given the years of conditioning we've had to do the opposite.

    (Alternatively, you can switch interfaces by pressing the Windows button. That method works fine, unless–like me–you've trained yourself over the years to avoid the Windows button at all costs.)

    As I mentioned earlier, IE in the Metro interface often shows no address bar or other buttons, including tabs for other Web pages that the user already has open. I tried everything I could think of to get them to appear–moving my pointer off the top and bottom of the screen, trying to "grab" the bars with my mouse while it was off-screen–but nothing worked. Finally, my colleague (and Metro enthusiast) Nate Ralph told me that I had to right-click an empty area on the Web page to gain access to the controls. Without his timely intervention, I might have thrown something through my monitor.

    Metro apps are easier to navigate with a finger than with a mouse.

    The interfaces in most Metro apps are wide and are built to scroll horizontally, sometimes through screen after screen. This arrangement works great when you're navigating with a finger on a tablet; but with a mouse, not so much. Your options are to use the scrollwheel on a mouse or the scrollbar at the bottom of the page. I'd be able to left-click an empty area of the page, grab it and pull it to the side horizontally, as you can in many Adobe applications. To me that seems like a closer analogy to the way people navigate pages by touch.

    All Metro apps display at full-screen size and can't be moved from one screen to another.

    The look is striking and gives the applications lots of breathing space. But sometimes you need to see two programs at the same time, to compare information or to move data from one application to another. You can grab the top of an application and move it so that it sits in a vertical panel on the side of your screen, but that orientation isn't useful for most programs.

    Metro apps look pretty, but their information density is often quite low.The Music app is one example of a Windows 8 app that supplies a low density of information per screen. Albums, artists, and even songs appear as an array of tiles. On my wide-screen monitor, I can see only 24 tiles at a time. To see more albums, I have to scroll horizontally; and if I scroll too fast, I see just generic gray tiles, which persist for a few seconds while the app populates the tiles with album names and art. Once the images are in place, the app has an attractive look, and you can narrow your focus by searching by genre, but it's not an efficient way to scan a library of hundreds of albums.

    Other Microsoft apps, such as the people and photo apps, have a similar design, and third-party designers are obviously reading from the same playbook. The Evernote app, for instance, is almost unusable if you need to find an older note from a large collection. It shows just 14 tiles per screen on my system–and the notes are arranged strictly chronologically, with no search function. Surely, Evernote will do better in future updates. But the underlying problem is that the apps' design motif, while great for tablets, doesn't make good use of the capabilities of a real PC.

    Windows 8 menus are contextual.

    If you click the Settings icon while you're in the Metro start page, you get settings specifically for the start page. You can click a link below for 'PC Settings', but those settings don't include everything you're used to having access to in the Windows Control Panel. To obtain a link to the Control Panel, you must click the Settings icon while you're in the traditional desktop.


    Perhaps this is something users will become accustomed to; after all, it is how many mobile apps work? But I think users expect more consistency from their desktop OS.

    How much can Microsoft fix?

    I want to stress again that, appearances to the contrary, I really like the Metro interface. I think that many of my gripes involve problems that Microsoft could probably fix fairly easily, perhaps by the time the final version of Windows 8 ships. Other issues, however, such as the tablet-oriented design of applications and the fact that the Metro and traditional desktops feel like separate operating systems, are more fundamental and make me wonder whether Microsoft can come up with a solution that makes Windows 8 feel like a cohesive unit.

  369. @Kurt

    I can see that screenshot perfectly clearly, and I understand that you may be attempting to suggest that Metro will fail like Active Desktop did. However, the two have very little in common (an application model based on HTML5 and JavaScript isn't the same thing as combining Internet Explorer and the Desktop) and I would not make comparisons between the two.

  370. xx says:

    "Some users are resistant to any change", Let's see, try to not use your bathroom anymore, eliminate the toilet, don't sleep anymore in your room, sleep on the roof…. cha cha cha changes http://www.youtube.com/watch   change your mind.

  371. Guybrush Threepwood says:

    How do "live notifications" work? For example I receive an email, but I'm already on the desktop, so I won't see a notification in the pre-login screen, right? So, how is the pre-login screen used? Can you show us a sample video? Thankz!

    I want to understand how the pre-login screen that we'll have to lift up at every access works.

  372. Braden says:

    I think when you don't have any apps open, top left corner should show start thumbnail (as well as bottom left).

    Otherwise it feels wrong, moving mouse here, without any result (the user might not know if they have apps open in the background).

  373. Braden says:

    I think when you don't have any apps open, top left corner should show start thumbnail (as well as bottom left).

    Otherwise it feels wrong, moving mouse here, without any result (the user might not know if they have apps open in the background).

  374. Chuck Norris says:

    Apple's Mountain Lion will get the attention in the summer (I think in September). If a probable iPhone 5 will be released this year, it will get major attention as well (I think in October/Early November). How will "Windows 7 and a half" + Metro get some attention? Desktop users won't spend any money for Windows 8, that's for sure. Tablets with Windows 8 preinstalled should be ready in time for the holiday season and it's a first time ever event. Mac desktops' sales will grow up more than imagined this year. PC's sales will not. Tablet war will begin, consumers will choose between an iPad or a tablet with Windows 8. Android will fall down.

  375. Chuck Norris Brother says:

    @Chuck Norris

    I’m totally with you (Microsoft, I need to you to understand this, I ‘been using Windows all my life, I like and I love how customizable the PC’s are, I love the Windows classic environment) But, if there is something that is getting my attention is Mountain Lion, and It’s not because “Apple is cooler” not, it’s just because the whole Metro Madness around Microsoft, It’s just Windows 7 with an ugly colored full screen with apps, I will NOT buy a Windows 8 license if that monster came to life.  

  376. Chuck Norris Brother says:

    I’ve been running a singular experiment to see how I feel using the metro interface listening Neon Indian, Toro & Moi, M83, Beirut, etc, and I have to tell you. Its like having your headphones in the Metro (how cool is that) meanwhile you see all the old ladies, businessmen’s, kids, it’s like a parallel universe, it’s bizarre, it’s like having an ugly room in your house, a room that you never want to go in.

  377. xx says:

    Sorry to post this here but at least Sinofsky and the Windows Team should see all the reactions from Windows 8

    http://www.youtube.com/watch

    “and this is why i use linux 😀

    suck it microsoft :D”

    “I hope Microsoft goes bankrupt. I hope they watch in despair as more and more people march towards (better) open-source alternatives. Micro$oft is getting too cocky. Their products blow and are always either unoriginal, stolen, or half-assed, or the more common: all the prior combined.”

    “Bring back the start button and the show desktop button, and get rid of these stupid mouse hover corners, they are annoying when u want to go back in your browser, open up IE in the taskbar or clicking the X caption button. Also make the desktop UI the default for PC's instead of that tablet UI – and fix your god damn IE browser, it s***s! I'm using Windows 8 Consumer Preview an right now and i'm very disappointed. It's just Windows 7 with annoying features and a useless tablet UI.”

    “Immersive, fast, fluid, personal and c**p.”

    “Making windows retard friendly”

    “Considering how things are changing from XP to Vista, 7 and now win 8, I say it's time to get my first Mac!”

    “If true, this is Microsoft's greatest mistake since Windows ME.”

    “Make Metro optional Microsoft or else you are going to lose lots of potential sales.”

    “It's such a horrible OS. Scrolling up and down with the mouse wheels, moves the UI to the left and right…LOL…there alone you know MS is trying to force a touch interface onto you. It's a horrible disjoint mess, to just find my calculator I spend 10 minutes looking for it, then had to use searc, pin it, now my taskbar is full of icons before I have even downloaded one program.

    Today Anandtech said the OS "sucks on a desktop", and he's right, Anand is a really smart guy.”

    “I want a computer, not a smartphone.”

    “I've played with the windows 8 consumer preview. The tiles are fluid and work well for a tablet, but using the mouse to navigate, as I did, was clumsy and counter-intuitive. Thank god you can still go to the desktop and use windows 8 like you would windows 7 and forget about the tiles altogether.”

    “Seems like a waste of time,Ram is so friggin' cheap now it would be crazy not to have more than 6gb of ram in a 2012 pc.

    This OS may be a winner for tablets or phones but I have no reason to upgrade from 7 at all, More people I talk to seem to think along the same lines. Touch screens are useless for desktop use, grubby fingerprints all over screen no thanks,More crap tiles linking to crap I don't want no thanks.”

    “I AM BORED OF TILES.”

    “Hilariously bad UI. Why do I need all of this fluff on the screen.”

    “Welcome to retard land! Microsoft employees sound like members of a cult…a little disconnected from reality, like they are trying to convince themselves that all this stuff is really cool.”

    “I think I'm going to switch to OS X this time and skip the next upgrade of Windows. Microsoft: let's make all the easy things harder to use and ugly, and let's leave all the bad features alone… again…”

    “Windows 8 = C***py”

    “Having seen it, when you use the "classic desktop" you get thrown to Metro when you click start, what a load of crap.”

    “So is this touch interface a separate application that runs on top of Windows 8? And if it is shouldn't it be made to also run on top of Windows 7?”

    “microsofts problem, is they feel THREATEN by mac. I HATE MAC WITH A PASSION. But they feel threatened by mac, and so naturally, what does a someone do when they feel threatened by someone? They adopt their good traits and try to make them better.

    This is the most insane thing I am about to say… I may actually buy a mac.

    I hate mac. I hate that I cant build my computer from ground up and install mac. I hate that mac dictates every move in their operating system”

    “PEOPLE CARE ABOUT DESIGN. APPEARANCE. I cannot get beyond the fugly design. Ballmer needs fired at once. They had a beautiful creative product on 2 half screens. Ballmer killed it prior to market. Microsoft does not get it. Hire a creative, brilliant mind to run the company. Facebook, Android and Google, Apple. We will be buying 20 beautiful android tablets to handle our wifi email functions from Walmart. Under 100$ a Piece.”

    “What a joke. The bricks are freaking ADVERTISEMENTS. Of course the corporations want this s**t.”

    “Holy s**it I'll never get used to that thing…”

    I can go and on coping and pasting all the comments almost the 80% of the comments on every Windows 8 video, one of the greatest things of youtube is that you got real information from the potential consumers, the average consumer… are you already listening all the complains Microsoft? Don’t be blind!.Sorry for the words of some comments but those are the reactions.

  378. xx says:

    Those are the average users Microsoft, those are the real potential customers, forget about Institutions who only use the software as a tool, forget about the business where the constant change moves around what is new, those are the real people that will buy all your products, remember the youngest have power enough to influence on the mayor target you’re pointing at.

  379. xx says:

    About the forums of Consumer Preview answers.microsoft.com/…/windows_8 Just go there, and see how the consumers are threaten with arrogance, presumptuousness, underestimating all the questions.

    Just to give you an example “Why is the start menu so important to you people?

    What is it that you are trying to do in win8 that you can't accomplish without a 17-year old start menu?”

    “Just slam your mouse pointer into the bottom left corner and RIGHT click!!! Click search and all you're apps/settings are at hand.”

  380. Braden says:

    @xx

    I could also selectively choose comments about Windows 8. I certainly haven't been reading 80% bad comments, I have read a lot of good, but haven't done a statistical study, nor have you. There is no doubt some million people running Windows 8 now, but there is also a much larger group of people who just watch videos, and form opinions partly based on uncertainty from not having used the product, and the strong negative opinion, of some particular vocal people (who we have no idea how long, or if it all they have used Windows 8).

    I have also read quite a lot of comments, of people becoming more accustomed to it, after some days or weeks of use. The simple truth is the main problem people have with it, is they think that it kills their productivity, which personally I don't at all believe.

  381. xx says:

    Don’t you realize that the % factor is not the problem? Don’t you realize that even I don’t care about the extreme opinions, “good or bad” I don’t care about that, I just watch the reality, there are DIVISIONS, CONFUSIONS, and that’s a BAD thing for a company, and I’m sure, I bet you that Windows 8 will be like Vista, or even worst, and that’s not the whole problem, is “the new direction” of MS, their “vision” or lack or vision, the lack of quality, I cannot argue with you anymore, you’re a Microsoftie Blinded Boy. Your lack of neutral vision is the problem. http://www.youtube.com/watch

  382. xx says:

    Don’t you realize that the % factor is not the problem? Don’t you realize that even I don’t care about the extreme opinions, “good or bad” I don’t care about that, I just watch the reality, there are DIVISIONS, CONFUSIONS, and that’s a BAD thing for a company, and I’m sure, I bet you that Windows 8 will be like Vista, or even worst, and that’s not the whole problem, is “the new direction” of MS, their “vision” or lack or vision, the lack of quality, I cannot argue with you anymore, you’re a Microsoftie Blinded Boy. Your lack of neutral vision is the problem. http://www.youtube.com/watch

  383. Developers or Consumers? Consumers or Developers? says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch

    Hey Braden are you sure that you're not Ballmer alter-ego?

  384. Braden says:

    @xx " I cannot argue with you anymore, you’re a Microsoftie Blinded Boy."

    You have your opinions, I have mine, doesn't make me blinded. Don't try to generalize everyone's opinions, as you did before (80% ?) .

    Just saying that my own productivity hasn't been effected.

  385. xx says:

    I mean, Braden, you’re trying desperately to prove that everyone is wrong, that the people who are complaining are wrong, are you sure that that is the way to think correctly? You exposed your problems your points of view, Im not trying to destroy Microsot? That’s insane, Im just a normal guy with a PC, Microsoft was my favorite software company, but now Im thinking seriously if this is the way I want to go. There are many people that are facing this reality, and if you see out there who else offers PC computer with a decent OS, who is it? Apple, the worst thing is that, too many people are asking themselves the same question as I am, let it go, Windows 8 is good for you? OK The 50% “maybe” will not think the same, if not 60%, but please, stop winning like a child trying to sell Windows 8 to us.

  386. xx says:

    You see? the whole point of this are the DIVISIONS, instead of having a nice Os and be united… no, there are divisions. Thats it.

  387. xx says:

    “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.”

    Bertrand Russell

  388. xx says:

    I recommend you my friend, to read Bertrand Russell, and forget the Metro Games apps, the Games you play, the vague entertainment, forget the things you do, face the reality with new eyes, find yourself, don’t be an slave of your inner fears, then you will understand so many things, is an honest advice, don’t fight or argue too much there’s not going to be a solution, be neutral, let’s try to do something constructive.

  389. Consumers Consumers Consumers says:

    Windows Microcheese 8! Now on your favorite supermarket!

  390. I-am-not-a-windows-8-fanboy says:

    @Steven Sinofsky – "A reminder that comments directed at individuals are not appropriate for the forum and that staying on topic is appreciated by all." – Why ? You don't respect us who are negative !!! You don't answer our questions !!! There are no reasons to stay on topic if You don't answer our questions !!!

  391. Stefan says:

    I have been using Windows since NT4 Server and NT4 Client. Have always loved Windows. I didn't like Vista or Windows 7. It gave me a lot of work to shut down all crap running and taking a lot of resources needed for installed software instead. I think Vista was the first step backwards when it comes to functionality and productivity. But Windows 8 is a big joke. I have never seen anything worse than that. Not Even Ubuntu with the Unity interface is as poor as Windows 8. To be honest, i have started to use Linux more and more. I even start to like it, even if i am a beginner and don't know all about configs and so on. But much of it is quite easy. But when using Windows 8 i start to wonder what person have come up with the ideas how Windows 8 should work ???????????

    .

    TO the Windows 8 fanboys: STOP ATTACK US WHO KNOW HOW A WINDOWS VERSION SHOULD LOOK AND WORK TO GET MOST PRODUCTIVITY SQUEEZED OUT OF IT….(that is impossible in Windows 8)

  392. Shrek says:

    @David

    "You should at the very least allow use of the start menu and booting into the classic desktop. "

    It is possible to put a desktop link into the startup folder. This way Windows 8 launches the desktop automatically.

    You can find it there: "UsersUSERNAMEAppDataRoamingMicrosoftInternet ExplorerQuick Launch". It is a link and it is calles Launch destktop. If yo copy that in your startup folder, then it will start in desktop mode.

    @Windows 8 Metro UI: 7 things you may just hate

    I fully agree with your great feedback. Everything you said is absolutely true and it is hard to believe Microsoft is not seeing this as well. However they are telling us otherwise. And it is not about abandoning Metro. It is about realising, that there are so many inconsistencies and conceptual mistakes, that the user experience between both worlds is terrible.

    And of course this is a general engeneering problem. Of course the Windows team know all the hidden features because they are so familiar with their system. Of course they cannot imagine that it is not intuitive. But watching this video reveals everything: http://www.youtube.com/watch

    This video shows that working in a DOS box is more intuitve than handling Windows 8. It is a shame. And it is a shame that obviously Microsoft needs another Vista as they have forgotten to listen to their customers. Currently they make everything Apple style. But these are not THEIR customers. Imitating Apple will not drive Apple customers to Microsoft. Imitating Apple will drive Microsoft customers to Apple. But it seems that Microsoft needs to learn the hard way, like they did with Zune player.

    @Guybrush Threepwood

    "How do "live notifications" work? For example I receive an email, but I'm already on the desktop, so I won't see a notification in the pre-login screen, right?"

    In fact they don´t work. I don´t see any use of the live tiles in desktop mode. They are great for Windows Phone as the present useful information at a glance. But absolutely useless if you are working in desktop mode as you have to switch to the start screen manually to check if there is a new notification for you. This is why the start screen itself should be an app. That way you could at least snap it next to the desktop.

    @Braden

    "Some users are resistant to any change".

    Change for change only is not a value. There must be a benefit. Let´s face it: The start screen is nothing else than a giant quick launch pad. It is by no means a substitute for the start menu. We had quick lauch bars already in XP and it was great to work with. Everything you could pin to the quick launch bar and have it in sight. Also you could choose if the quick launch bar would be visible all time of if it gets auto removed.

    Now with Windows 8 we have the giant start screen which is only a quick launch pad. There is no more option to have it visible at all times. I have to switch to it (which contradicts the idea of the live tiles).

    So when I avoid it,  I have to pin applications to my taskbar again. But also this new way (CHANGE!!!) is useless in a specific way: There are items that cannot be pinned or cannot be pinned at top level. For example: If you want to pin "My computer" it gets nested into Explorer. Which means compared to the former quick launch taskbar you need 1 additional click to get there.

    The real substitution of the start menu is the "all apps" screen. But compared to the start menu it lacks so many functions as you cannot sort and nest items. Yes it is a CHANGE. But a useless one. There is no real benefit. And this is why it sucks.

    In terms of efficiency and productivity, Windows 8 is a bad joke.

  393. Great quote says:

    http://www.infoworld.com/…/the-windows-8-tragedy-how-microsoft-can-avoid-disaster-188047

    "I saw a Microsoft presentation this week on Windows 8 and all its glories. The marketing exec painted a vision of thin laptops and tablets as what Windows 8 would make possible. As I looked around the conference, I saw dozens of MacBook Airs, scores and scores of iPads, and scads of iPhones and Androids. I also saw a lot of rolling eyes as the Microsoft rep continued to embarrass herself with clueless claims. That future Microsoft pretends it's inventing already exists, and today's reality is far ahead of Microsoft's "vision."

    The foks in Redmond need to stop telling each other how wonderful they are. The emperor has few clothes left."

  394. sysAdmin says:

    A sysadmin reacts to Windows 8:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch

    "Do they have like a professional version that doesn't have all this bullshit?"

    "Where is my real PC"?

  395. THE GURUS says:

    THE GURUS – WE WHO HATE WINDOWS 8

    .

    We are the WINDOWS GURUS

    .

    We are the CUSTOMERS

    .

    We do not FORGIVE

    .

    We do not FORGET

    .

    Expect US

  396. Stefan says:

    The startmenu is much needed and used by software developers to put different guides, links a.s.o about their software on to it. Where should they put it now in Windows 8 ? Have Microsoft forgotten that ? I have read several comments from admins that wonder what the F Microsoft think about when they create junk as Windows 8 ? Are their dev team on drugs ? I can only agree….

  397. DudeWhereAreMyCustomers says:

    Looking back at the history of Windows, there were “a few” users that did not move from XP to Vista because of the screwed up UI of Vista. Most of these people did not move to Unix/Mac, they just waited for a better version of Windows and finally most of them replaced their 11 year old version with Windows 7. So if these users thought that Vista was bad, what chances does Metro Madness have to convince them otherwise? So let’s simply count them out as future customers of Windows 8.

    Now let’s add all the users that are already fed up waiting for Microsoft to come up with something current and consistent and they already migrated to other operating systems. Let’s count those out as well.

    Companies are just migrating to Windows 7, and the Metro UI has zero chance of cutting it into the workplace, so let’s count those users out too.

    What about seasoned developers who create productivity oriented software for a living, they can see that the Metro UI is all about cool tricks and useless to produce anything worth the effort, so let’s count those people out too.

    And then they are all other simple customers that have followed Windows through all generations because they were using their desktops all along to do their everyday work. They were those that ignored the tablet/smartphone oriented operating systems because they were just irrelevant to their work. Here is coming Metro UI to push all the tablet madness on their desktop and ultimately to their face. Let’s count those customers out too.

    And what about the real funs of Microsoft software, people like me. The thing that Microsoft does not seem to be getting in their square heads, is that we are waiting to buy the Windows 8 tablets and resisted the iPads and Androids all along because we are expecting some form of continuation from the Windows paradigm to the tablets, or at least some application compatibility. The flow of compatibility should be traveling from the desktop to the tablet, not the other way around. Turning our desktops into giant tablets, cannot be consider a form of unification or evolution. So let’s count ourselves out as future customers.

    Suddenly the future customer base seems too thin for anybody to consider any long term investment.

    I think the only correct message from the Microsoft’s marketing department is that is time to learn something new and detach from the past paradigm. Of course it is correct only if what they really mean is “it is time to jump ship and move to other operating systems”.

  398. Judith says:

    Suggestion: Improved Gesture for Closing Apps

    Current Gesture for a mouse: Point to the upper-left corner. Thumbnail appears and drag it to the bottom of the screen.

    Note: If the thumbnail of the app appears, notice that the thumbnail position is nearer to the upper portion of the screen than the lower portion of the screen.

    Possible Suggestion: Make the gesture like this:

    Point to the upper left corner. Thumbnail appears and drag it to the top of the screen. (Dragging to the top of the screen is the possible gesture to be change because the thumbnail is nearer to the upper portion of the screen.)

  399. Frenz says:

    Here's the cure:

    * From the Metro taskbar, allow users to drag them out on the Desktop in windowed mode.

    * From the start screen, hold down a key (eg. shift) to launch metro applications on the Desktop in windowed mode.

    * Add a "Open on Desktop" icon to the right click bottom menu.

    * Windowed Metro apps on the Desktop should work as any other Desktop application and show up in the Desktop taskbar.

    * Make an option so advanced users, can have the Metro start screen popup in the corner (not the entire screen), somewhat like what Stardocks did with their hack. Allow resizing of this window and remember the size next time. If this mode is chosen, make it default to start Metro apps in windowed mode.

    * Allow mouse-scrolling in the Metro start screen by dragging any clear surface.

    * Allow advanced users to turn off the charms bar appearing when hovering and it a button we can click on to bring it up as we choose – make that button always visible from the systray bar.

    * Remove the "Show Desktop" hover button from the taskbar – it will only be advanced users who will be using the Desktop in Windows 8 and advanved users know they can press win+d to get to the desktop, the hover button has always just been an annoyance.

    Using this cure, Metro apps will become usable for professionals and we could go buy professional Metro utilities from the Windows Store – not just Angry birds and Cut the rope entertainment.

  400. Changed Plans says:

    I was really planning to drop my XP and finally upgrade to the new and better Windows 8. There are reasons like usb3 and Internet Explorer 10.

    But honestly there is no way to buy Windows 8. My prediction is that it will create an uproar once it public version has been released and Microsoft will be forced to do massive change with Sp1.

    Now would you buy an os that is sooooo much likely to be changed or even fail? I won´t.

    So I will stick to XP and wait what happends. If hardware requirement forces me to upgrade, next step will be Windows 7. As Windows 9 is already scheduled for 2014, maybe even skip Windows 8 entirely. It will not harm and probably save a lot of headache.

  401. Pax says:

    @Frenz

    +1.

    Totally agree. Why not bring the best of both worlds?

  402. Judith says:

    Improved way of closing app

    When you mouse over the upper portion of the screen, you see your recent app thumbnail.

    My Suggestion: Please add a X button on the upper right of a recent app. (Just like the thumbnail in Metro IE with an X button in the upper right.)

  403. THEPROBLEM says:

    The problem is that Microsoft has built a dumb os instead of building a smart one.

    Let´s take the request from Judith above:

    "Please add a X button on the upper right of a recent app. (Just like the thumbnail in Metro IE with an X button in the upper right"

    This certainly does make sense if you use this os with a mouse. But it certainly does not make sense when using it with your finger.

    So why can this os not distinguish on what platform it is currently used and what kind of input and output decives are connected and what kind of resolutions are available.

    Based on this it could:

    – Display start screen when installed on a tablet, skipping start screen and disaplay a start menu when on a PC.

    – Display a start menu when mouse is available, display start screen when touchscreen is connected.

    – Show more desktop like behaviour even on apps (like Judiths suggestion above)  and show more touch improved behaviour when on a touch device.

    There would be tons of ideas to improve the overall behaviour based on device and user input. That would be smart and awesome. Currently it is simply dumb resulting in an experience which merges the worst of both worlds.

  404. Firstly: Metro only won't work for me, nor will it work for the enterprise users – the cost of reeducating unsophisticated users barely able to point and click to a metro interface on a keyboard/mouse device  will simply not take place. Enterprises use a computer as would a mechanic use a spanner, it's a means to an end for running the business, not an experience.

    Secondly: What happens with the suspended apps when they make use of limited concurrent resources such as login licenses? Do they continue to hold on to the license? Will other users be blocked due to insufficient licenses? Will one be able to stop specific apps from being suspended and force them to shut down? Will one be able to do this from Group Policy settings and if so, which versions of Windows server will support these Group policies?

  405. TheHiddenMessage says:

    I do not think that MS is trying to replace the normal desktop only as an effort to unify the desktop and tablet form factors (which to my opinion is impossible because they are so different and you end up with Metro UI desktop atrocities).

    I think what they are trying to do is move us to all browser type applications. Let’s face it, since quite a long time there is a movement towards the web app paradigm, which every big company is trying to embrace, Google, Apple, Microsoft etc.

    When it comes to complex applications the only way to achieve that is to simply lobotomize them. The end result will be that you will be using their servers constantly to do your simple & complex tasks. Now your quad core 16GB machine is an utterly useless expense when you could do most of your stuff for “free” in the cloud.

    Of course, the catch here is that you cannot do all your work on the cloud and it is not free. Actually if it wasn’t early days for the technology they will be charging us an arm and a leg like any other utility company. Having two active applications at most on your desktop fits perfectly the model Google is trying to push with the services oriented web OS they came up with. Obviously Microsoft is eyeing that piece of the pie too and it looks like they are trying to herd us towards that direction.

    Having a desktop that acts just as a collection of JavaScript runner plus low level extensions, is the perfect platform to serve you there “rent only” applications (through Azure and the cloud of course). Having a full operational desktop does not fit that paradigm and we are going to end up with failed experiments like WPF, Silverlight, Flash that never managed to replace the real desktop applications.

    Call me paranoid, but at least this hypothesis gives them more credit than simply thinking that they are trying to unify oil and water just for fun, which is a utterly silly thing to do as we witnessed so far.

  406. "They trying to drive me to Mac?" says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch

  407. nipurn bhatnagar says:

    hey i am nipurn from INDIA…pls respond to my question at my email : nipurn.says@gmail.com  

    i am using consumer preview and find it good.But the windows in not stable at all, when any app crashes it becomes un usable nothing works not even task manager.And the 2nd problem is that icon doesnt refresh properly.Means if u delete something from desktop it will remain there until u refresh the desktop.And sometimes the laptop doesnt shuts down ….On clicking power off button .The processing continues….Pls it would be great if u could give  answers to my queries.

    Pls mail me also, as i might not b able to read it here.

    And do tell me when it's stable version going to come.

  408. A12 says:

    I’m beginning to think that those people who said "Some users are resistant to any change" are the same people who think that dslr photography is a better change from classic photography, that “books are dead”, those who think that electronic music is Tiesto, they think that Graphic Design is Photoshop.

  409. Is it my imagination or did commenting standards on this blog completely fall apart after the Consumer Preview was released?

    If you (commentators) want to tell Microsoft that you don't like Metro and why, you should use scientific evidence to support your claims rather than complaining about individuals or linking to videos that don't prove anything.

  410. Security Guard says:

    I how can I pin my porn on the Tiles, I like Windows 8, I can play games, I can talk to my friends, you know, my work is boring so I need a boost using my computer, I need more games, please easy games, and a Porn App.

  411. Pol says:

    @Frenz

    Trying to cure a monster it’s not the best solution, I don’t want to know anything about metro apps, not windowed mode, if MS release a monster with Metro even in windowed mode I will not buy that garbage, It’s like having Media Center 2, the Stardock solution is even worst, I don’t want to know about charms, apps, metro, none of this bullshit, and “Remove the”show desktop”? I know Winkey+D shows it, but I use A  LOT the show desktop hover button, when you are working with files I drag the files to the Desktop hover button and the desktop appears so I can put the files there, is more simple than using the key shortcuts, I find more annoying all the Metro UI.

  412. xx says:

    @ WindowsVista567

    First what do you mean about “scientific evidence” It’s there an empirical technique to build a thesis about people complains?, do you want pseudoscientific evidence like statistics?

    What about A priori experience and posteriori experience, those are not empirical evidence? It’s true that those all not the whole evidence cause we represent a minority of the whole, are you sure that the complains here doesn’t represent bad axioms? Or maybe is that you’re so skeptical about the Ideas we are exposing here.

  413. Boy Joe says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch

    Meanwhile on Apple, customers are happy.

  414. Dmack says:

    The problem with windows 8 CP is simple.. Sinofsky and team painted themselves in a corner when they went full screen only metro. This direction placed them down a path that allowed them to make decisions for tablet and desktop environments that were not ideal.  For example:

    The "poor" design choices made because of full screen only metro apps include the following:

    1) The start menu wasn't needed because it didn't exist on other metro apps.  

    2) No visible way to close metro apps

    3) No visible way to move metro apps

    4) No way to move metro apps to another screen on dual monitors

    5) No windowed experience on desktop

    6) No windowed metro apps

    7) the experience becomes disjointed because desktop you can do full screen, windowed, move things around, close windows, navigate… metro you can only do full screen and apps determine the navigation style.

    8) Multitasking becomes broken

    9) Copying content from app to app becomes a chore ie: share charms why?

    10) The requirements of hot corners and hidden charms

    All these issues can be gone if the team puts metro apps in a window or even just a simple title bar web browser type  navigation system. This would not interfere with tablets, phones, desktop experiences and provides for future metro 2.0 features and options down the road.

  415. @xx

    If you look back at some of the previous posts (particularly those from October), you will see that I stronlgy dislike Metro and what it represents, so I'm not trying to support Metro in any way. What I'm saying is that comments that essentially say "this stinks and I hate it" won't convince Microsoft to change Windows. I don't know if there is an empirical techniquie that can be used to very people's complains, but statistics involving click counts, mouse distance, time to accomplish a task, etc. can all be used to determine the effectiveness of Windows 8's Metro UI. In these two posts, (social.msdn.microsoft.com/…/a72da911-0355-4e85-b337-ab7605bdbe9c) and (social.technet.microsoft.com/…/de3fc5ee-d160-4467-abf1-ae0bde725118), I have tried to explain why I don't like the Metro UI. There are actually quite a few good comments on this post, but there are also some comments that express dislike about Metro while essentially saying nothing. These will not make any difference to Windows 8.

  416. HereComesTheScience says:

    @WindowsVista567   I know what your problem is: you have withdrawal symptoms because Steven stopped posting all the fancy telemetry data that were supporting with 95% confidence the fact that Metro makes our life easier and increases productivity.

    The fact that we are currently using Windows 8 build for ages and we find the desktop implementation beyond useless to the level of getting annoying, does not mean anything to you.

    Now that I think of it maybe this is the reason Microsoft chose to hide the shutdown button, because that would be the first thing Windows 8 users will want to do with their new installation.

    Anyway here we go:

    80% ugly

    90% bad design

    100% useless

    How about this for statistics?

  417. Fingerprints 8 says:

    Hey I got a new Idea for the soundtrack of Fingerprints 8 launch

    http://www.youtube.com/watch

  418. @HereComesTheScience

    I told you before: I DON'T LIKE METRO! I have used statistics to show that Metro doens't work as well as the desktop. The only thing that I am trying to say is that statements like "we find the desktop beyond useless to the level of annoying" should be accompanied by data.

  419. HereComesTheScience says:

    @WindowsVista567: You mean “how annoying”? Do you want me to quantify the level of annoyance I experience while working on my 30” monitor and I press the Windows key on my keyboard and everything disappears behind a sea of rectangles? I can tell you that: 100% annoyed.

    I never accused you that you like Metro (on the desktop), but I find your request for supportive data a bit too much. The reason (as I have explained in other postings in this side) using any telemetry data to compare the two paradigms is incorrect (according to my opinion) because you cannot compare these two completely different paradigms quantitatively, only qualitatively.

    The fact that the Metro UI start screen resorts to full screen windows for its interaction immediately negates any comparison. The original start button would come up with a small window that respected the user’s workspace. The new start button action displays a full screen Window that obliterates the user’s workspace and work context. Comparing the two is not only irrelevant, it is simply bad science of course this is what Microsoft is using to convince us the opposite is true.

    They are using telemetry data collected the last few years to convince us that >20 years of Windows evolution means nothing and we were using the wrong UI all along. If this is not the revelation of the century I don’t know what it is.

    I like desktop operating systems (and probably you too like them) and Windows 8 is not a desktop operating system in its current state, it is an impostor.

  420. Stefan says:

    Today i wrote to the topdog at Microsoft Sweden (the country i live in) and sent them my negative feedback about Windows 8 and about how they did think when they planned for this new OS. I did also question the meaning of release this 8 junk for desktop computers. Ofcourse i continued, in my long email, with questioning the dev teams ingnorance about the negative feedback and why they have this blog when they don't listen to everyone. A lot of complains about Windows 8 in all, about the dev team, about this meaningless blog and about any future versions if they will be as useless as Windows 8. I hope they really do listen to a long time Windows user, else i stop buying Microsoft products. Vista Ultimate x64 will be the last if so.

  421. @HereComesTheScience

    Notice that I said that statements like "we find the desktop beyond useless to the level of annoying" should be accompanied by data. I did not say "supported." Telemetry and measurements cannot determine a person's opinion, and there is nothing wrong with saying that something is annoying. However, such a statement in and of itself is not enough to convince Microsoft to change Windows 8. If you read those two forum posts I linked to, you will see some of the statistics I provided. The telemetry Microsoft is using does not support the development of the Metro UI; it basically just says that 88% of app launches don't originate with the Start Menu (which is not true for my PC). I believe that qualitative and quantitative comparisons are both important, but many of the comments here say even less than "we find the desktop beyond useless" and instead waste time linking to videos and complaining about other people, which, again, does not support an argument against Metro.

  422. Fans Fans Fans says:

    Just look all the fanatics in there… :)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch

  423. Folks metro is coming it is that simple ,if you don't like don't use it or buy it, every moron thinks they are computer experts now.

  424. Fans Fans Fans says:

    @nana688

    So, who are you to judge if people are or not computer experts. Windows Crap 8 will came out I will not buy that garbage. That bothers you?

    Every Windower moron thinks now they're the nex Microsoft CEO or something.

  425. A12 says:

    “Metro is coming” notice how you say Metro instead Windows 8, youre an computer expert? Give us some lesson Master, give me a lesson of Computer, so I will destroy my master diploma in Informatics & Computer Engineer.

  426. No because I will buy that crap so will millions of people. I wish Microsoft will shut this blog down. there is so much crap written here by the know it all crowd.

  427. Sam says:

    @nana688

    I can see social.msdn.microsoft.com/…/activity

    This is you Microsoftie achievement, you’re spreading all your knowledge here, you could be compared with Peter Norton, you’re such a fanatic.

  428. Fans Fans Fans says:

    “No because I will buy that crap so will millions of people. I wish Microsoft will shut this blog down. there is so much crap written here by the know it all crowd.”

    That’s the attitude, go microsoftie, go!. That’s why Microsoft is slowly diying, cause blinded fanatics like you who doesn’t tolerate real complains, keep dreaming about the “Windows 8 success” keep dreaming.

  429. Fans Fans Fans says:

    So, if Microsoft shut down this blog, it’s going to solve the problems?, and people about complains would be changing their minds? I’m loving this mentality. So classic in blinded fanatics.

  430. Braden says:

    @Fans Fans Fans

    Cool don't buy it, no one here is trying to sell it to you.

    Just know there are many people who can still be just as productive in Windows 8, than 7. Desktop and explorer are still there, more powerful than ever. Stop whining about metro apps, and stop using them, open up your powerful desktop apps, pin them to taskbar. Use hotkeys, adapt to a simple context switch as you winkey, type, enter, to open less frequently used applications. It's amazing such power users find it so difficult to adapt. Did you ever read some declaration, certain things in the field of technology would never change?

    Fact is, power users use hotkeys, to open start, and search, same number of key clicks, just as efficient. It's not like you open applications all day long, not unless you have like 500 apps in metro, which you wouldn't as a power user. Of course you could be opposed to the aesthetics of metro, but aesthetics and functionality are different things.

    There is no way at this stage of beta, that MS could make metro apps work on the desktop. They are built with specific optimised views in mind, and would require far more development, to work at any scale. Nor should they. Metro shouldn't be compromised by forcing it into the desktop. It will end up as a confusing, broken experience, and further compromise MS ability to make successful hybrid devices and tablets.

    Changing the start screen has had very little effect on desktop users. Yet some people are acting like this is the end of all serious productivity.

    You must know this was MS only shot at building a true competitor in the tablet field, and allowing new hybrid devices. If you care about the future of Windows popularity and install base, a move like this was necessary. The world is changing, there is a new generation of users. I'm happy as long as MS allows me to be productive as a desktop user, and thrilled I will be able to expand Windows out to new devices, allowing me to be more mobile at times.

    I also want to add I wouldn't be surprised if some Apple fanatics are hanging out on this forum, not accusing anyone, but It would be logical (because that's the way tech forums work).

  431. Thank you Microsoft says:

    Thank you Microsoft. You saved me a lot of money.

    No way I gonna buy this crap.

    I gonna wait for Windows 9.

  432. Window 8 will be dead on arrival. says:

    Why?

    Because of this: http://www.zdnet.com/…/10275

  433. Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols & Paula Rooney yeahhhhhhhhhhhhh top experts/ Linux fanboy and fangirl.

  434. Shrek wrote:

    """ Change for change only is not a value. There must be a benefit. Let´s face it: The start screen is nothing else than a giant quick launch pad. It is by no means a substitute for the start menu. We had quick lauch bars already in XP and it was great to work with. Everything you could pin to the quick launch bar and have it in sight. Also you could choose if the quick launch bar would be visible all time of if it gets auto removed.

    Now with Windows 8 we have the giant start screen which is only a quick launch pad. There is no more option to have it visible at all times. I have to switch to it (which contradicts the idea of the live tiles).

    So when I avoid it,  I have to pin applications to my taskbar again. But also this new way (CHANGE!!!) is useless in a specific way: There are items that cannot be pinned or cannot be pinned at top level. For example: If you want to pin "My computer" it gets nested into Explorer. Which means compared to the former quick launch taskbar you need 1 additional click to get there.

    The real substitution of the start menu is the "all apps" screen. But compared to the start menu it lacks so many functions as you cannot sort and nest items. Yes it is a CHANGE. But a useless one. There is no real benefit. And this is why it sucks.

    In terms of efficiency and productivity, Windows 8 is a bad joke. """

    You nailed it!

    The SS and Metro can stay obligatory for the phones and tablets, but for desktop and laptops it should be optional.

    Unfortunately Microsoft is determined to force the SS and Metro into the throats of every Windows user.

    Yep, thats whats happening here, Microsoft is forcing its customers into one of the dumbest UI ever created for the sake of its "one-OS to rulle all" vision.

    As for the "My Computer" example you gave, the solution is to re-enable the Quicklaunch bar:

    support.microsoft.com/…/975784

    One of the most useful UI feature for Windows. It works great once you choose small icons for the Taskbar.

  435. ExcellentPostings says:

    @Braden: I love your enthusiasm and your “adaptability” to new technologies and I am sure you are going to be happy with Windows 8 and its Metro goodness. That is a UI designed especially for people like you and people who like pinning things a lot.

    @nana688: Your contribution to these discussions is invaluable. Please continue enlightening everybody with gems like "I wish Microsoft will shut this blog down", I am sure there are a lot of people they wish the same about your mouth, but don’t listen to them, they are just Windows 8 haters.

  436. Braden says:

    @impar "As for the "My Computer" example you gave, the solution is to re-enable the Quicklaunch bar"

    Seems unnecessarily complex to save one click, just pin My Computer to Windows Explorer icon, so right click Explorer, and click My computer (jump list on taskbar). As it is there are other two click methods: click explorer, use navigation pane to select my computer and right click start thumbnail, my computer. Also if navigating to normal work folders, you would pin this to the navigation pane of explorer, why start at the root, and work up, for folders you are working with constantly. People are just find excuses for lack of productivity, any means to deny the new interface works for the most part.

  437. Braden says:

    @impar "UI designed especially for people like you and people who like pinning things a lot"

    I only pin what I feel is necessary, otherwise press win+q to navigate all programs (didn't think there was hotkey previously to jump straight to this, so nice),however most of the time just winkey, start typing, enter. Bang productive as ever

  438. Super Windows User says:

    @Braden

    “Pin it to the taskbar” "don't buy it" "Fact is, power users use hotkeys"   POWER USERS!!! POWEEEEEERRR USERS!" is that a superhuman skill?

  439. lol says:

    @Braden

    Pin your brain at Microsoft

  440. Pol says:

    new telemetry data just in: Microsoft is strongly Divided due an Ugly *** Living Windows 8.

  441. Fans Fans Fans says:

    @Braden

    Braden Braden yes we all know that you read all the key shortcuts manual, we all know about your superhuman skills using it, the question is are you using your brain?

  442. Pol says:

    @Impar

    "Microsoft is forcing its customers into one of the dumbest UI ever created for the sake of its "one-OS to rulle all" vision."  Thanks!!

    At least some people still using their brain

  443. Excellent Postings says:

    @Braden: (first of all, I am not the Impar user)

    You really sound like a Unix user and not a Windows one. I am developing Windows applications for over 20 years (in C++, COM, C# and Java) so I am a “power user”, actually based on the silly definition I should be a God by now. I still do not want to hunt my applications down through a search box and then when I manage to find them, pin them on the “wall” for posterity.

    All I want is Windows as it is supposed to be. For the first time in my career I find myself watching videos of Mac OS (although I couldn’t care any less about their “closed” system) so I do really consider moving to Unix. The only thing that stops me is that I will be searching 3 hours trying to find how to do the simplest task, but hey now that Microsoft is heading that way, it doesn’t seem that bad.

  444. Fans Fans Fans says:

    @nana688

    The only "fanboy" here is you and others

  445. Fans Fans Fan says:

    @Braden

    Give me a definition of “power” user, you know coding languages? You know how to work well and fast on Photoshop? You know to work fast using only a keyboard? Do you know how to search fast on Google? Give me a definition of “power user” that’s sound pretty silly are you 15? And just discover the computer and all the tricks? Is that being a POWER USER!?

  446. I am a Consumer  who likes windows 8 , and I am enjoying exploring the os.

  447. Fans Fans Fan says:

    @Excellent Postings

    Same here, for the first time in my life after being a Windows user all my life I’m strongly considering to move to apple I don’t care, it’s just all the annoying ambient here in Microsoft, just cause blinded fanatics, absurdist, they don’t care anymore about the “POOOOWEEER USERS” they just Want to BEAT Apple that’s the POOR mentality behind the CEO the Windows Team All the executives.

  448. Pol says:

    new telemetry data just in: Braden, Vienna circle is calling you.

  449. Super Human says:

    "Building Windows 8 is a pretty significant undertaking and involves a team with diverse backgrounds and experiences. We're proud of the fact that the diversity on our own team reflects the diversity of the customers using Windows around the world. "

    I just laugh

  450. Roland says:

    Today, the latest issue of c't, Germany's most respected and highly influential computer magazine (most IT pros in Germany read it) came out. The title story: Windows 8 (consumer preview)

    The verdict of c't: In its current form, Windows 8 doesn't work well for traditional computers because of the Metro UI. There are too many frictions between the two UIs of Windows 8, and accessing and navigating the new Metro elements (settings, charms, etc.) and the Start screen doesn't feel really comfortable with the mouse. c't lists a table of all new Windows key commands to mitigate the issue. However, the basic problem that Metro ist a step backwards from Win32 when using the mouse remains. c't likes the speed of the beta, the new features for the desktop and the enterprise and Metro when using touch. However, the final word is that in its current state, Windows 8 is a step backwards for users of traditional computers compared to the almost perfect Windows 7.

  451. Braden says:

    I don't know the true definition of power user, maybe just experienced user? To me a power user is someone that hunts down hotkeys, can easily work out new interfaces quickly, can adapt to change. The sort of people that are first to work out how something works, and keen to show less experienced users how something is done. Experienced users testing the beta would be considering things such as how many hotkeys does it take to do something, how much mouse travel, does it have all the features I need, will this slow me down, is there anything new, that enhances certain workflows.

    Personally I am most worried about new users on desktop, MS will need to be careful to have excellent tutorials and advertising,

    , so people understand all the features of the interface, with mouse and keyboard. Experienced users will already know how to use these features (or to blinded by initial outrage to learn new things), and know they don't need the hot corners., so can avoid a few pixels (this shouldn't be a problem for dexterous users).

    MS needed to step forward for a new generation of users, as they did with Windows 95. Sure it's going to cause an uproar. But those that are paying attention, and thinking about absolute number of key presses and time it takes to do things, will realise the desktop is just as fast as ever.

    I'm trying to think about this from a broad view, not my own selfish reasons for using an operating system. I want Windows to be successful far into the future, and think this move was absolutely necessary.

    Sure MS could hide the Start Screen on first login, and make some other changes to keep you in desktop longer. Like button to automatically override all file extensions to open in Desktop, rather than Metro apps. Or have an additional optional button, that gives a smaller fly out menu, where many things can be pinned, and search can be done (while retaining the start thumbnail, and start screen).

  452. Shrek says:

    @Braden

    "Seems unnecessarily complex to save one click"

    Good point. Why is it that Microsoft makes such simple tasks unnecessarily complex?

    And yes, I WANT to avoid this one extra click because there is no benefit for me to accomplish tasks slower and with more clicks than before. It is a step BACKWARDS and I won´t want to accept this.

    So I am going with the quick launch bar with this new 2012 os, offering no better productivity than the 2001 os windows XP. This is embarrassing – for Microsoft. They have not been able to come along with a solution offering the same level of efficiency and productivity. Instead they are offering some extra clicks to achieve the same tasks. This is an epic fail.

    Instead of creating and shoving around kiddie coloured squares on the start screen they should have come up with something that increases productivity and not some bullshit like apps everywhere which invite users to hang on twitter and fecebook all the time. This is not productivity.

  453. Braden says:

    @Shrek

    Well how did you get to My Computer in one click in Windows 7?

    You couldn't could you, so yes keep the quick launch bar, or just press win+e.

  454. Fans Fans Fans says:

    @Shrek

    Braden CANNOT see that, he's totally blind is like talking to a wall.

  455. Braden says:

    @Shrek "Braden CANNOT see that, he's totally blind is like talking to a wall."

    Why? Because you guys a providing workflows things you find slower, but often they aren't even true, like above.

  456. Judith says:

    Suggestion for Metro and Desktop Internet Explorer 10: Close the tab that needs add-on then open it on the desktop

    In the dialog ""The site uses add-ons that require Internet Explorer on the desktop""

    When you click Open, IE opens the website on the desktop, leaving the Tab that requires add-ons open.

    My Suggestion: When you click open in the dialog  ""The site uses add-ons that require Internet Explorer on the desktop""

    METRO IE should close the Tab that requires add-ons and open it on the Desktop IE. This is to lessen the memory used.

  457. Shrek says:

    @Braden

    "Well how did you get to My Computer in one click in Windows 7?"

    You obviously did not realise that I am talking about XP. I am still using it. It is simply great. BTW although it is Microsofts masterpiece it is embarassing for them that they still did not manage to build features into Windows 7 or Windows 8 which makes the majority of XP users want to switch to the new os. I really hoped Windows 8 would be their new masterpiece. But it is not. Maybe Windows 9 will be after Ballmer and Sinofsky got replaced.

    But also you did not really read my post. Maybe you should read it before accusing me of lying. You have said pinning is a great solution. It is, definitly. But they crippled it for no reason. You cannot pin items to the taskbar the way you want it. You have to do it the Microsoft way. Which means, that certain items cannot be pinned. They get nested into Explorer pin. That was my point. So I said that pinning is not a full substitution for using the quick launch bar. And really I don´t see a reason why you cannot pin drives to the taskbar. I don´t see a reason why you cannot pin system setting to the taskbar. So I need to do it the old fashioned way. They had a chance to make things easier for me, but they failed. So why should I buy?

    This is sad. Because it is the same old setup that I am using on my XP machine. I was excited when seeing the pinning feature, hoping I could remove the quick launch bar. Only to find out that I can´t or have to add more clicks to achieve the same which I don´t like.

    I use the quick launch bar quite often so the additional clicks simply add up. But what is even more, I see no reason why I need to be forced into this Microsoft workflow which is simply dumb. It is a restriction which is absolutely unnecessary. Why can´t I pin "My Computer" directly to the task bar? You like it this way. Good for you. Go buy Windows 8. I don´t like it that way as it is, offering only little or even no benefit compared to even the pre-pre-pre XP system. So no need for me to buy it.

    God I wish Microsoft would give me a lot of reasons to buy Windows 8. But they are absent. I even like the ribbon inside Explorer. But that´s not enough for a new os. There are too many areas that leave me disappointed, too few innovations. And when they are innovations like the tiles and Metro (which I generally like on Windows Phone) then they are built into the system in a way you think a bunch of script kiddies did that and not one of the worlds largest software companies with thousands of thousands highly skilled software engineers and software manager who earn millions of Dollars.

    It is sad that even Microsaft said: Everything you can do with Windows 7, you can do with Windows 8. So besides the tablet part of the new os (I am sure on tablets it will be great), for desktop users there is simply no good reason to buy it.

    New ways of doing things are great. But they must offer a kickback.

  458. Braden wrote:

    """ @impar "As for the "My Computer" example you gave, the solution is to re-enable the Quicklaunch bar"

    Seems unnecessarily complex to save one click, just pin My Computer to Windows Explorer icon, so right click Explorer, and click My computer (jump list on taskbar).  As it is there are other two click methods: click explorer, use navigation pane to select my computer and right click start thumbnail, my computer. Also if navigating to normal work folders, you would pin this to the navigation pane of explorer, why start at the root, and work up, for folders you are working with constantly. People are just find excuses for lack of productivity, any means to deny the new interface works for the most part."""

    Are you trolling?

    Once you re-enable the Quicklaunch bar install in Windws 7, you can put any , ANY!, shortcut there. It takes less than a minute to properly configure it for the duration of that Windows install.

    And "My Computer" is just one left click away in the Quicklaunch, no need to be browsing through navigations panes. Just left click in the proper quicklaunch icon.

    The same for any other folder or shortcut.

    Windows7 taskbar brought some limitations that are easily solved by re-enabling the Quuicklaunch bar. Windows 7 default Taskbar behaviour cant give you instant acces to "My Computer", selected folders, Recycle or even Control Panel. Quick Launch can.

  459. Braden says:

    Okay I've noted all my thoughts here:

    bradenjennings.com/…/windows-8-consumer-preview-thoughts

    If you guys weren't happy with Windows 7, then not liking 8 is inevitable. There are always small things in every operating system that would be nice, you can't have everything. Surely the Improvements of Vista, 7, and now 8, add up to a massive upgrade over XP. Whether or not you lose a couple of extremely small features or not. Yes Microsoft could probably do some things to make desktop users more happy, and I hope they do. But they can't drop important features just to please a smaller audience of power users, use to Windows XP, or that simply have a dislike for new things, that they associate with hipsters, and children.

  460. Rberns says:

    So I thought I'd try out Office365 as an app.

    I use the ie app to access office365.

    I could create a word and excel document.  Opening a doc gave me a full screen view which I couldn't size.

    I also couldn't find a way to have both of these docs open simultaneously.  Obviously I'm missing something obvious!

    Can anyone offer a hint or 3?

  461. Braden wrote:

    """ If you guys weren't happy with Windows 7, then not liking 8 is inevitable. There are always small things in every operating system that would be nice, you can't have everything. Surely the Improvements of Vista, 7, and now 8, add up to a massive upgrade over XP. Whether or not you lose a couple of extremely small features or not. """

    But I am happy with Windows 7, even Vista with SP was decent and Windows 8 brings a lot of imptovements over Windows 7.  Its the forced change to SS and Metro in the desktop world that makes no sense. It is change for the sake of fulfilling a flawed "one OS to rule all" vison.

  462. robbieb says:

    Now that we've seen the Consumer preview, when will we see the Corporate preview?

  463. HeyUnixLover says:

    @Braden: You obviously missing the point here, we do like Windows 7 and we do like Windows in general. Keyword: Windows.

    Yes, some people like Windows XP more, but they wouldn’t have any problem working with Windows 7, more or less the functionality is the same. I have seen that in my workplace, by the way are just starting to upgrade their XP machines to Windows 7 (and we are talking about 300,000 desktops).

    Metro UI is 10 steps back on the desktop and what you are describing as solution sounds like it is taken from Unix help manual (if there was ever a proper one that is).

    Obviously your experience with windows type operating systems is not that great given your age, but do not make silly arguments about us associating it with hipsters and children. I am the person that will buy any new gadget I like and believe me I can afford any technology product I like. But not only I can buy it, I can also program it in most programming languages, so I am not just your “normal” user that can be convinced easily by marketing fluff.

    I did buy a Windows Mobile Phone 7 and a Windows 7 tablet too. I found the phone very interesting and quite functional. The tablet is a pain to use with Windows 7 but I was planning on upgrading it to Windows 8. Guess what, I hate Windows 8 so much now that I do not even consider upgrading my tablet anymore.

    If you like the Metro UI cr_p on your desktop, that is fine and very good for you and Microsoft. But before you try to convince us that Metro UI should be considered as a desktop alternative maybe you should get some history lessons and also look at where Windows has its stronger impact, business and business continuation. Deviating from that legacy is like committing suicide.

    The fact that I cannot find a colleague in my workplace that likes Windows 8 means a lot to me. It means that I should be abandoning ship soon because Microsoft is heading for the rocks.

  464. Stefan says:

    Windows 8 fanboys, and fangirls, continue to try to convince the people that don't like Windows 8 LegoBS, that they must like it because they say so. Ridicilous ! Tons of IT-professionals, tons of IT-magazines and tons of home users don't want this BS. Just stop try to convince us, please, understand and respect that we really don't care what You think. If You like, then You like it. I don't nag You about that. That is Your decision – not mine…. Start to respect that all people don't think the way You do.

  465. Stefan says:

    Windows 8 fanboys, and fangirls, continue to try to convince the people that don't like Windows 8 LegoBS, that they must like it because they say so. Ridicilous ! Tons of IT-professionals, tons of IT-magazines and tons of home users don't want this BS. Just stop try to convince us, please, understand and respect that we really don't care what You think. If You like, then You like it. I don't nag You about that. That is Your decision – not mine…. Start to respect that all people don't think the way You do.

  466. Stefan says:

    Windows 8 fanboys, and fangirls, continue to try to convince the people that don't like Windows 8 Lego, that they must like it because they say so. Ridicilous ! Tons of IT-professionals, tons of IT-magazines and tons of home users don't want this Lego OS. Just stop try to convince us, please, understand and respect that we really don't care what You think. If You like, then You like it. I don't nag You about that. That is Your decision – not mine…. Start to respect that all people don't think the way You do.

  467. I hate Windows 8 says:

    Windows 8 fanboys, and fangirls, continue to try to convince the people that don't like Windows 8 Lego, that they must like it because they say so. Ridicilous ! Tons of IT-professionals, tons of IT-magazines and tons of home users don't want this Lego OS. Just stop try to convince us, please, understand and respect that we really don't care what You think. If You like, then You like it. I don't nag You about that. That is Your decision – not mine…. Start to respect that all people don't think the way You do.

  468. Stefan says:

    It is almost impossible to post anything here again…

  469. Stefan says:

    So this blog won't work proprly again….

  470. Shrek says:

    @Braden

    Nice blog post and nice pictures.

    Let´s see what happend with Windows Phone. Me personally I like the Metro interface very much. There are a lot of people who don´t like it. That´s just personal and there is not much you can change about it. If you force it on people like Microsoft does, with only little options to customize it, people will not buy it. This is what is happening.

    But there is another thing: When Windows Phone was released it was lacking so many features. The most prominent example was the missing "Copy&Paste". Until today I cannot find any valid reason why they have not built this functionality into it. The public reaction was a disaster. While it is a really good phone os the lacking functionalities together with the uniform Metro interface created a viral perception that Windows Phone is crap. So nobody is buying it.

    I see similiar happening with Windows 8. It surely has everything to become a good os. But not the way it is now. It is lacking the right concept. And here you are wrong with your blog post. It is not about making Windows 8 like XP or Windows 7. It is not about denying change or even the future. It is simply about doing it the right way. If they would learn from their Windows Phone desaster, they would know that they have to do it the right way and small things can add up to a viral massive negative perception. Simple things like the start button. Simple things like the Start Screen. Simple things like missing nesting capabilites all add up to this negative perception.

    And at some point event the entire concept does not seem to be well thought.

    Take the live tiles for example. These are live. Which means that information can change inside the tiles dynamically at any time. The idea is great. And it works really great on Windows Phone. I do believe you could make this work on desktop too, but not the way it is now.

    In desktop mode there is now way for you to get information about updated information in tiles. You cannot snape the start screen like you can with any regular app. You have to switch manually to the start screen to have the benefit of auto updating live tiles. You cannot even choose the start screen as your screensaver or lock screen (which would make sense).

    So for the desktop the Start Screen with all the tiles is absolutely and completly useless.

    These are conceptual things that simply do not fit together. I wish I could drag live tiles into the desktop. This way I could have them in sight all the time.

    Oh yeah, I could snap them, but this does only work for resolutions of 1366 and up. Well there is a reason why I am using 1268. So I can choose between full sized apps or a desktop which does not suit anymore. Why is there no way in WINDOWS to have windows apps and to have windows apps on the desktop. Whoever made this decision should get fired isntantly.

    So again, I remember Windows Phone and alle the bad decisicions that were made about the features it will come with from the start and it is hitting me like a flash: They are doing the very same mistake again.

    Take the hot corners as another example. This is no concept. It is a nightmare. I would fire the guy who suggested this approach without hesitation. It is just crap, crap, crap.

    But actually I don´t want Windows 8 to be crap. But this way it is gonna be a disaster. Even on tablets they cannot make things right. While the Metro interface is really really good for tablets, they completely screwed it with the ARM support. On ARM you don´t get Windows 8. You get Metro8 or Tiles8 or Fullcreen8 but not WINDOWS 8.

    I can see thousands of people buying ARM tablets only to find out, that there is no Desktop. This will be a disaster. And again, I see Windows Phone, which shipped without the option to sync locally to Outlook. A lot of people returned their phone when they found out. And again: The people who made this decision, I would have fired them.

    So at the end it comes down to this: It is obviously that Windows 8 and Windows Phone are from the same company: They make terrible wrong decisions (while telling everybody how great they are), force users to a user experience users don´t accept, wondering about low sales and need to hope for the next release to repair the damage that has been done (and could have been avoided).

    They could easily build Windows 8 in a way acceptance was granted. But it seems they need to learn it the Vista-way.

  471. Shrek says:

    @Braden

    Nice blog post and nice pictures.

    Let´s see what happend with Windows Phone. Me personally I like the Metro interface very much. There are a lot of people who don´t like it. That´s just personal and there is not much you can change about it. If you force it on people like Microsoft does, with only little options to customize it, people will not buy it. This is what is happening.

    But there is another thing: When Windows Phone was released it was lacking so many features. The most prominent example was the missing "Copy&Paste". Until today I cannot find any valid reason why they have not built this functionality into it. The public reaction was a disaster. While it is a really good phone os the lacking functionalities together with the uniform Metro interface created a viral perception that Windows Phone is crap. So nobody is buying it.

    I see similiar happening with Windows 8. It surely has everything to become a good os. But not the way it is now. It is lacking the right concept. And here you are wrong with your blog post. It is not about making Windows 8 like XP or Windows 7. It is not about denying change or even the future. It is simply about doing it the right way. If they would learn from their Windows Phone desaster, they would know that they have to do it the right way and small things can add up to a viral massive negative perception. Simple things like the start button. Simple things like the Start Screen. Simple things like missing nesting capabilites all add up to this negative perception.

    And at some point event the entire concept does not seem to be well thought.

    Take the live tiles for example. These are live. Which means that information can change inside the tiles dynamically at any time. The idea is great. And it works really great on Windows Phone. I do believe you could make this work on desktop too, but not the way it is now.

    In desktop mode there is now way for you to get information about updated information in tiles. You cannot snape the start screen like you can with any regular app. You have to switch manually to the start screen to have the benefit of auto updating live tiles. You cannot even choose the start screen as your screensaver or lock screen (which would make sense).

    So for the desktop the Start Screen with all the tiles is absolutely and completly useless.

    These are conceptual things that simply do not fit together. I wish I could drag live tiles into the desktop. This way I could have them in sight all the time.

    Oh yeah, I could snap them, but this does only work for resolutions of 1366 and up. Well there is a reason why I am using 1268. So I can choose between full sized apps or a desktop which does not suit anymore. Why is there no way in WINDOWS to have windows apps and to have windows apps on the desktop. Whoever made this decision should get fired isntantly.

    So again, I remember Windows Phone and alle the bad decisicions that were made about the features it will come with from the start and it is hitting me like a flash: They are doing the very same mistake again.

    Take the hot corners as another example. This is no concept. It is a nightmare. I would fire the guy who suggested this approach without hesitation. It is just crap, crap, crap.

    But actually I don´t want Windows 8 to be crap. But this way it is gonna be a disaster. Even on tablets they cannot make things right. While the Metro interface is really really good for tablets, they completely screwed it with the ARM support. On ARM you don´t get Windows 8. You get Metro8 or Tiles8 or Fullcreen8 but not WINDOWS 8.

    I can see thousands of people buying ARM tablets only to find out, that there is no Desktop. This will be a disaster. And again, I see Windows Phone, which shipped without the option to sync locally to Outlook. A lot of people returned their phone when they found out. And again: The people who made this decision, I would have fired them.

    So at the end it comes down to this: It is obviously that Windows 8 and Windows Phone are from the same company: They make terrible wrong decisions (while telling everybody how great they are), force users to a user experience users don´t accept, wondering about low sales and need to hope for the next release to repair the damage that has been done (and could have been avoided).

    They could easily build Windows 8 in a way acceptance was granted. But it seems they need to learn it the Vista-way.

  472. To all commentators:

    Did you know that there are forums available for discussing Windows 8? Forums should be used for discussion topics that are not appropriate for the blog or are not related to the post.

    social.technet.microsoft.com/…/threads

  473. Guillaume Soucy says:

    @Steven Sinofsky

    Hi,

    Can I know if the app for SkyDrive will be compatible with Windows Xp and when the file size on SkyDrive will be increased?

    Regards,

    Guillaume

  474. Now that I have shutdown pinned to the Start page (courtesy of Tech Republic), I am a happy camper.  

  475. FormatHD says:

    Cool WindowsVista567 can also act as a moderator, thank you man; we need more people telling us to move out of the forum because they do not like our comments. Your contributions are invaluable, keep it up.

    The Metro UI is still useless on my desktop though and I am about to format the hard drive. No point in wasting time on a soon to be dead on arrival OS. Any keyboard shortcut for removing it quickly?

  476. FormatHD says:

    Cool WindowsVista567 can also act as a moderator, thank you man; we need more people telling us to move out of the forum because they do not like our comments. Your contributions are invaluable, keep it up.

    The Metro UI is still useless on my desktop though and I am about to format the hard drive. No point in wasting time on a soon to be dead on arrival OS. Any keyboard shortcut for removing it quickly?

  477. People, stop trying to moderate each other 😛

    I tried playing with the dev build, I tried the CP, same conclusion: I cannot live with Metro UI on anything anymore, I really had it with all these rectangles.

    It is not about ease of use or having to learn a thing or two, it is all about “what is the point?”, it is ugly and adds zero functionality. On my desktop I cannot think of any more pointless UI than this.

    If I had to choose between living with Vista for the next ten years or Windows 8 I would have chosen Vista anytime. Thank God there is Windows 7 to go back…then again do I still want to support a company that is going down the history as the dumbest software company ever? As a developer I embarrassed already for what is coming out soon.

    Maybe you should leave the unification theory experiments to the physicists and focus on some good old engineering and common sense. Kill this Metro on the desktop experiment before you become the ridicule of the industry.

  478. People, stop trying to moderate each other 😛

    I tried playing with the dev build, I tried the CP, same conclusion: I cannot live with Metro UI on anything anymore, I really had it with all these rectangles.

    It is not about ease of use or having to learn a thing or two, it is all about “what is the point?”, it is ugly and adds zero functionality. On my desktop I cannot think of any more pointless UI than this.

    If I had to choose between living with Vista for the next ten years or Windows 8 I would have chosen Vista anytime. Thank God there is Windows 7 to go back…then again do I still want to support a company that is going down the history as the dumbest software company ever? As a developer I embarrassed already for what is coming out soon.

    Maybe you should leave the unification theory experiments to the physicists and focus on some good old engineering and common sense. Kill this Metro on the desktop experiment before you become the ridicule of the industry.

  479. People, stop trying to moderate each other 😛

    I tried playing with the dev build, I tried the CP, same conclusion: I cannot live with Metro UI on anything anymore, I really had it with all these rectangles.

    It is not about ease of use or having to learn a thing or two, it is all about “what is the point?”, it is ugly and adds zero functionality. On my desktop I cannot think of any more pointless UI than this.

    If I had to choose between living with Vista for the next ten years or Windows 8 I would have chosen Vista anytime. Thank God there is Windows 7 to go back…then again do I still want to support a company that is going down the history as the dumbest software company ever? As a developer I embarrassed already for what is coming out soon.

    Maybe you should leave the unification theory experiments to the physicists and focus on some good old engineering and common sense. Kill this Metro on the desktop experiment before you become the ridicule of the industry.

    (PS is this site running on Windows Server 8?)

  480. Apparently there are some on the Windows 8 Team who have a lot of themselves personally invested in Metro.  That's understandable since that's the way we humans work.  There are people like that over at Apple (boy are there!).  As an example for years you could only adjust Mac OS X windows from the lower-right corner even though that was a really stupid alternative to the traditional Windows way of using any side or any corner.  The feeling was that was the "Mac way" or it was "Mac-like" or some such rubbish.  Finally Apple woke up and realized that their traditional way of adjusting window size was really detrimental to their users' experience.

    Similarly I predict that Windows 8 RTM will include the option to use the traditional desktop only inspite of all the great hopes and dreams for Metro and its companion, the just-like-Apple Windows Store.  The grown up boys and girls over at Microsoft realize that no matter what they personally want unless customers are buying and shareholders are making money there is really no point at all to any of this.

    Like some have mentioned in this thread the company I work for has just begun to install Windows 7 machines.  In fact we only had to replace some Windows 2000 machines because one of our typically backward software vendors finally quit supporting W2000.  The chance that anyone I'm involved with as an employee or an online user will be interested in Windows 8 is right at zero.

    Reality Rules.

  481. Anonymous says:

    A poll by Neowin shows that, based on the experiences using the Consumer Preview, 60% of users would not buy Windows 8.

    http://www.neowin.net/…/weekend-poll-will-you-buy-windows-8

    A survey by PCWorld says that half who have tried Windows 8 wouldn't recommend it.

    http://www.pcworld.com/…/windows_8_survey_half_who_have_tried_the_os_wouldnt_recommend_it.html

    An Ars Technica poll has 70% of respondents saying that Windows 8 might be a good tablet UI but a poor desktop one, and is possibly even poor at both.

    arstechnica.com/…/viewtopic.php

    I think this should give Microsoft pause and cause a fundamental rethinking of the approach to forcibly combine a tablet and desktop UI into one.

  482. Braden says:

    @Shrek

    It's true the live notifications, aren't much benefit unless you specifically go check the Start Screen.

    I think a notification centre type feature is needed, like what's coming to Mountain Lion – for users to check important new updates. But that doesn't invalidate the reason for putting live information on tiles, this is also a good option to check less critical information – and is a natural improvement from static icons. But as much as I want a feature like this for Windows 8, I don't see this happening at Beta stage. Yes disappointing, but not a deal breaker for me, live notifications weren't my primary concern.

    If Microsoft had put all desktops applications on ARM, it would be slow as hell. I don't think ARM tablets have the grunt currently to pull this off. Some massive applications like Maya, are so intertwined into the classic Windows, and built with no consideration for power management. Microsoft wouldn't be able to convince these companies to rewrite massive programs, for the sake of battery improvements. So even if you wanted this, I just simply can't see how it's possible.

  483. Braden says:

    @Shrek

    It's true the live notifications, aren't much benefit unless you specifically go check the Start Screen.

    I think a notification centre type feature is needed, like what's coming to Mountain Lion – for users to check important new updates. But that doesn't invalidate the reason for putting live information on tiles, this is also a good option to check less critical information – and is a natural improvement from static icons. But as much as I want a feature like this for Windows 8, I don't see this happening at Beta stage. Yes disappointing, but not a deal breaker for me, live notifications weren't my primary concern.

    If Microsoft had put all desktops applications on ARM, it would be slow as hell. I don't think ARM tablets have the grunt currently to pull this off. Some massive applications like Maya, are so intertwined into the classic Windows, and built with no consideration for power management. Microsoft wouldn't be able to convince these companies to rewrite massive programs, for the sake of battery improvements. So even if you wanted this, I just simply can't see how it's possible.

  484. Braden says:

    @Shrek

    It's true the live notifications, aren't much benefit unless you specifically go check the Start Screen.

    I think a notification centre type feature is needed, like what's coming to Mountain Lion – for users to check important new updates. But that doesn't invalidate the reason for putting live information on tiles, this is also a good option to check less critical information – and is a natural improvement from static icons. But as much as I want a feature like this for Windows 8, I don't see this happening at Beta stage. Yes disappointing, but not a deal breaker for me, live notifications weren't my primary concern.

    If Microsoft had put all desktops applications on ARM, it would be slow as hell. I don't think ARM tablets have the grunt currently to pull this off. Some massive applications like Maya, are so intertwined into the classic Windows, and built with no consideration for power management. Microsoft wouldn't be able to convince these companies to rewrite massive programs, for the sake of battery improvements. So even if you wanted this, I just simply can't see how it's possible.

  485. Braden1 says:

    @Shrek

    It's true the live notifications, aren't much benefit unless you specifically go check the Start Screen.

    I think a notification centre type feature is needed, like what's coming to Mountain Lion – for users to check important new updates. But that doesn't invalidate the reason for putting live information on tiles, this is also a good option to check less critical information – and is a natural improvement from static icons. But as much as I want a feature like this for Windows 8, I don't see this happening at Beta stage. Yes disappointing, but not a deal breaker for me, live notifications weren't my primary concern.

    If Microsoft had put all desktops applications on ARM, it would be slow as hell. I don't think ARM tablets have the grunt currently to pull this off. Some massive applications like Maya, are so intertwined into the classic Windows, and built with no consideration for power management. Microsoft wouldn't be able to convince these companies to rewrite massive programs, for the sake of battery improvements. So even if you wanted this, I just simply can't see how it's possible.

  486. Metro is coming folks ,better get use to it or go away. I love windows 8 and metro. who gives a *** about polls from websites, every moron think they are computer experts. I really hope Microsoft ignores all this moaning coming form apple/google/Linux fanboys.  I think it a risk Microsoft should be ready to take.

  487. =0 says:

    HAHAA Braden thanks for show us your blog :)  haha windows kid

  488. 9a9a says:

    Braden… oh Braden… Next Microsoft Ceo

  489. 0902 says:

    @Braden

    Look your cluttered taskbar fanboy

  490. Developers, Developers, Developers says:

    @naninha688

    MS should care, because we wont buy that **** that is Windows 8

  491. Braden says:

    @=0

    Yep I like Windows, it lets me be productive. It's easy for you to poke fun while being anonymous behind your "=0" name

  492. Braden says:

    @=0

    Yep I like Windows, it lets me be productive. It's easy for you to poke fun while being anonymous behind your "=0" name

  493. Customer says:

    @nana688: You're absolutely right. What's important here is not what a great percentage of potential customers think of the OS, but whether you, nana688, love it.

  494. Mayhemm88 says:

    @Steven Sinofsky

    It seems like many of the complaints with Windows 8 could be mitigated by just letting the user pick the interface they are in. The default on touch devices should be metro. The default on keyboard and mouse should be desktop.  Here are some concept images that may better help you to mesh the two interfaces together fluidly.  I'm no HCI expert, but I think this interface would make 99% of Win8 users (including myself) happy!!

    Windows 8 RC Desktop UI Concept:

    i43.tinypic.com/2ilo6xl.jpg

    Windows 8 RC Metro UI Concept:

    i39.tinypic.com/sni9sy.png

  495. mayhemm88 says:

    @Steven Sinofsky

    It seems like many of the complaints with Windows 8 could be mitigated by just letting the user pick the interface they are in. The default on touch devices should be metro. The default on keyboard and mouse should be desktop.  Here are some concept images that may better help you to mesh the two interfaces together fluidly.  I'm no HCI expert, but I think this interface would make 99% of Win8 users (including myself) happy!!

    Windows 8 RC Desktop UI Concept:

    i43.tinypic.com/2ilo6xl.jpg

    Windows 8 RC Metro UI Concept:

    i39.tinypic.com/sni9sy.png

  496. mayhemm88 says:

    @Steven Sinofsky

    It seems like many of the complaints with Windows 8 could be mitigated by just letting the user pick the interface they are in. The default on touch devices should be metro. The default on keyboard and mouse should be desktop.  Here are some concept images that may better help you to mesh the two interfaces together fluidly.  I'm no HCI expert, but I think this interface would make 99% of Win8 users (including myself) happy!!

    Windows 8 RC Desktop UI Concept:

    i43.tinypic.com/2ilo6xl.jpg

    Windows 8 RC Metro UI Concept:

    i39.tinypic.com/sni9sy.png

  497. Braden says:

    @=0  and @9a9a

    Yep I like Windows, it lets me be productive, I'm here talking about my opinion same as you guys. It's easy for you to poke fun while being anonymous behind your "=0" name. I'm enthusiastic about good products, simple as that – you can label me as you feel you need to

  498. Braden says:

    @=0  and @9a9a

    Yep I like Windows, it lets me be productive, I'm here talking about my opinion same as you guys. It's easy for you to poke fun while being anonymous behind your "=0" name. I'm enthusiastic about good products, simple as that – you can label me as you feel you need to. Cluttered is in the eye of the beholder, I have half the width of screen left, looks fine to me.

  499. Braden says:

    @=0  and @9a9a

    Yep I like Windows, it lets me be productive, I'm here talking about my opinion same as you guys. It's easy for you to poke fun while being anonymous behind your "=0" name. I'm enthusiastic about good products, simple as that – you can label me as you feel you need to. But I don't think all your guys whining is going to change much. The Start Screen is not going to go away.

  500. mayhemm88 says:

    It seems like many of the complaints with Windows 8 could be mitigated by just letting the user pick the interface they are in. The default on touch devices should be metro. The default on keyboard and mouse should be desktop.  Here are some concept images that may better help you to mesh the two interfaces together fluidly.  I'm no HCI expert, but I think this interface would make 99% of Win8 users (including myself) happy!!

    Windows 8 RC Desktop UI Concept:

    i43.tinypic.com/2ilo6xl.jpg

    Windows 8 RC Metro UI Concept:

    i39.tinypic.com/sni9sy.png

  501. Braden says:

    @=0  and @9a9a

    Yep I like Windows, it lets me be productive, I'm here talking about my opinion same as you guys. It's easy for you to poke fun while being anonymous behind your "=0" name. I'm enthusiastic about good products, simple as that – you can label me as you feel you need to. But I don't think all your guys whining is going to change much. The Start Screen is not going to go away.

    This comment section has practically stopped working entirely. Sorry if I have made a series of identical posts.

  502. mayhemm88 says:

    Ugh. I've been trying to post a metro/desktop UI concept 4 times now. the blog says it posts. it even increases the post count, yet my post never shows up… what is going on here???

  503. thanks Braden  I enjoyed reading your blog. I really have enjoyed exploring windows 8 and everything. I think this is a risk Microsoft  is ready to take and I for one applaud them. I am ready for the brave new world.

  504. mayhemm88 says:

    Gosh, the servers must be slow today. I posted these comments hours ago and they are just showing up now. Apologies for the duplicates.  Anyways, I hope you like my metro/desktop fusion idea. I think it would help windows 8 immensely.

  505. Shrek says:

    @Braden

    The live tiles are just another example of how poor the current MS concept is when it comes to merge Metro and desktop world. They are not fully seperated but they don´t work together as seaminglessly as I wish they would. They need to find better ways to integrate both worlds and then users will appreciate the change.

    The live tiles are a main concept of Metro. I mean it is the reason why they are big. They are intended to display information. But they fail. And if they fail the entire start screen is in question.

    I can understand your ideas why on ARM a desktop is not supported. But this does not help people who find themselves in the situation of having bought a tablet which claims to have Windows8 on board which in fact is absent.

  506. Shrek says:

    @Braden

    The live tiles are just another example of how poor the current MS concept is when it comes to merge Metro and desktop world. They are not fully seperated but they don´t work together as seaminglessly as I wish they would. They need to find better ways to integrate both worlds and then users will appreciate the change.

    The live tiles are a main concept of Metro. I mean it is the reason why they are big. They are intended to display information. But they fail. And if they fail the entire start screen is in question.

    I can understand your ideas why on ARM a desktop is not supported. But this does not help people who find themselves in the situation of having bought a tablet which claims to have Windows8 on board which in fact is absent.

  507. Developer says:

    @nana688 you know, i think you are the Apple fan. Really.

    We care about MS, that's why we think its frustating the way Windows 8 is as it is…

    I just think that Windows design its too hipnotised with their baby. Like a parent who in a school play, thinks his son its the most talented actor. Even if its only a minor role.

    The same with Windows 8, dispite in the current form the majority who already tried, thinks its not good enough. Actually really bad. Windows 8 team can't really see what they created? Why does need of Metro'R'Us' just for opening NotePad. Try to open Notepad with the Start Screen, then with ViStart 7.0. See the difference, i mean so obstrusive, so deselegant, so…

  508. 0909 says:

    @Braden

    There's no doubt that you're a fanatic. You cannot see the problems, cause you're a blinded almost religious fanatic.

    Go to the Microsoft Church.

  509. Fans, Fans, Fans says:

    @Braden

    Ballmer retard lost child.

  510. 9a9a says:

    "I'm enthusiastic about good products"

    Haha, I can see that, you like "GOOD" products…. Oh god, that was funny. Really, have you ever read Peter Norton Books? Find one, and read it.

    Child

  511. 9a9a says:

    I mean.. look at this unelegant & ugly solutions

    http://www.youtube.com/watch

  512. 9a9a says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch

    Look at this ridiculus solution….. Windows team you have to ELIMINATE THE METRO GARBAGE!!!!

  513. S Ballmer says:

    @Braden

    Repeat after me son…. DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPEEEEEEEEEEERS

  514. Ruth says:

    @Braden

    Since when are you using Windows?

  515. Braden says:

    The Metro hater's guide to customizing Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    http://www.zdnet.com/…/6350390

  516. waseem raja says:

    i am windows user since windows 98 and i tested every windows version. in windows 8 i fell something which like windows vista such as its huge storage quota ,its driver issue such as opengl 2.0 rendered i smissing and its search utility is not powerful as compare to windows 7. in windows 8 should be added a utility that we play xbox 360 games and

  517. waseem raja says:

    it s startup is awsome and shutdown utility is also prety good one think which i also want to share and please considerated on this point that when we use metro application there should be be corner button also such as close minimise and max

  518. Somewhat says:

    Using this for over two weeks now. I customised the start screen, the taskbar, I even installed the Stardock. And still I wanna throw up every time I am using Windows 8 for the disjointed user experience everywhere.

    Everytime I shutdown this bastardized os, I feel a great relief.

  519. Nice says:

    @nana688, so far your arguments why Windows 8 is good can be summarized as:

    “I like it”

    “everybody leave the forum now”

    “you are all just morons thinking you are computer experts”

    “you are all apple/google/linux fans”

    “who cares about the polls and what the majority thinks”

    You are wasting your talents here man, you are a true salesman. To tell you the truth though I don’t like some of the language you are using, but I cannot blame you, your parents were related after all.

  520. There are over 1.2 billion users of windows …

  521. Nice says:

    Yep and I am one of them, user and developer and after Windows 8 comes out, it is going to be the same number or even more users.

    The question is how many of those users are going to be using Windows 8, obviously you and some others for sure. Lots of us are going to be staying with Windows 7 because it was built for desktops.

    Enjoy your new tablet OS on the desktop, it looks spectacular…rectangular.

  522. WTF says:

    no intelligent posts. this blog proves linux and apple users have no life. trolling a product they have no intention on using.

  523. How many do you think are going to stay away.

  524. Nice says:

    X, where X is the number of users that understand the difference between Desktop and Tablet usage patterns.

  525. @FormatHD

    I'm not saying you shouldn't offer feedback to Microsoft; I'm saying that discussion about Windows 8 should occur within the forums, not the blog. Blog comments are designed for commenting about posts, while forums are intended for discussion with the community.

  526. @WindowsVista567

    Can you provide a link to the forum where I would post my feedback about Windows 8? Just general feedback on improvements I'd like to see.

  527. Matt Hopton says:

    From the Metro start screen, it is no longer possible to start applications as another user (only run them as administrator). Please could you add this back in?

  528. NItz Walsh says:

    Looks like Win8 produced a convert!

    http://www.infoworld.com/…/why-im-finally-switching-the-mac-188365

    "Well, guess what? I've changed my mind. After 22 years of using Windows for work, I'm opting for a Mac instead.

    All it took was a long look at Windows 8 Consumer Preview."

  529. Sunil says:

    Hi,

    I am using windows8 for last 2 days.I found no issues with Metro, But Desktop feels awkward without start button even after two days. Please restore Start button on desktop. After installing win8 when I thought of shutdown the machine It took me few mins to get the options same for other things  because as an user I am so used to start button and getting options. I think It bit be frustating for ordinary user to go through such a drastic change.

  530. Sunil says:

    Hi,

    I am using windows8 for last 2 days.I found no issues with Metro, But Desktop feels awkward without start button even after two days. Please restore Start button on desktop. After installing win8 when I thought of shutdown the machine It took me few mins to get the options same for other things because as an user I am so used to start button and getting options. I think It bit be frustating for ordinary user to go through such a drastic change.

  531. @Braden: Jeez, it was enought to saw your face to tell that you're retarded. Sorry to tell you that, but it's the true. And the fact that someone makes his photo to favicon.ico is so pathetic. 😀 As your brainwashed comments. Please don't stop! Please keep double/triple posting. This blog is just working as good as your beloved OS.

  532. TS says:

    @PrettySure There's no need to go that route. I dont agree with some of the ideas of Braden or the complicated workarounds to get the same level of functionality of Win7, but hey… no need to insult.

    All i can say is all of this time with Windows 8 and i cant get used to. It wont get better.

    I am used to Metro, but on Metro. Now that Metro is not a novelty anymore. I dont think that Metro on a non-touch computer makes really sense being used. I can use it from time to time, but i keep the most time on Desktop.  

    When i am on Desktop the charms bar keeps being annoying everyday, and the start screen dont make any sense to open an app like Notepad… I am not against Metro, but Metro is a totally different mindset. Desktop is about productivity and Metro just distracts..

    Where Metro and Desktop going to shine is on transformer Asus. But, neverthless start button is a must.

  533. Shrek says:

    @Prettysure

    Read your comment and you know who is retareded. How old are you? Go back playing in your sandbox if all you can is insulting other users.

    @TS

    I fully and totally agree. Even after a while using it, you don´t get "used" to it. Everything is akward. It is a bit desktop here and a bit Metro there and it is all but a unified consistant user experience.

    And yeah, the charms are so annoying and getting in my way all the time. Also I am getting a strong negative feeling towards Microsoft and the Windows team who commited this craziness. I am in total disbelief they are forcing this sh*t down my throat.

  534. TS says:

    @Shrek

    Two simple fixes…

    1 – Charms could have a delay on Desktop, like 0,5 seconds or 1 second. If charms have this delay of 1 second or 0.5 second, then charms wont appear by acident. The close minimize, show desktop and scroll bar are critical areas. Or just deactivate Charms when apps are maximized. Full-screen is not enough. At least give an option on Control Panel.

    2 – Start button back. Even if optional. Windows key could lead to start screen. Just add Windows + x to start button or Windows + z.

    I dont think this is a perfect solution, but at least i can live with it…

  535. Stefan says:

    I have used Windows since NT4, and this Windows 8 LegoBS, have made me decide to leave Windows and speed up my migration to Linux. This so called OS is the worst creation ever by Microsoft. If Windows 8 LegoBS is the future, i can only say: Goodbye Microsoft !

  536. @Shrek: stfu, and keep suckin those c**cks

  537. Robert Johnson says:

    I'd love to use Windows 8 consumer preview if it would only install properly: answers.microsoft.com/…/cf2b1955-0be4-4f80-851e-ef6d7422b4ba

  538. Spent Friday evening and Saturday afternoon restoring my MBP Windows 8 partition to Windows 7 Pro with Office 2010.  Microsoft really makes some fine products, some of the time.  Can't wait for Metro-free Windows 8 as there are some nice changes there for desktop computing.  iPad 3 (that's what it really is) makes Microsoft's tablet goal even harder to achieve with a product as ill-conceived as Metro.

  539. @TheRichman

    I have already posted the link. Do an Edit-Find for "WindowsVista567" if you can't find it.

  540. 0909 says:

    nana688

    "There are over 1.2 billion users of windows …"

    Who cares, windows 8 will sucks anyway.

  541. Millions more will join when windows 8 is released.

  542. 9i9 says:

    Haha BRADEN the one with a favicon on his blog… and his name BRRAAAADEEEN haha get lost.

  543. JdZ says:

    So .. how do I turn off Metro?

    great for tablets..useless on a PC

    Everything runs fast, but the UI is horrible, and if there is no way to turn Metro off, and If i need to download "apps"  from a store …there is no way I can or will use it …it's just not possible.

    Look at this…it's how regular people will feel using the Metro UI … http://www.youtube.com/watch

    Then will buy something else…   last comment in the video is real good …"do they want me to buy a mac?"

  544. TS says:

    hey guys, dont complain too much…

    here: windowsteamblog.com/…/getting-around-in-windows-8.aspx

    you can just print this out:

    windowsteamblog.com/…/4667.Keyboard_2D00_shortcuts_2D00_for_2D00_Windows_2D00_8_5F00_5756566F.png

    If we just memorize all this shortcuts, Windows 8 experience will be a smooth one. I will print the shortcuts to a paper and distribute to all my family (mother, father, sister) so they can start doing their homework. I am sure they will be thrilled.

    Many Thanks

  545. @TS

    The issue is not simply about learning how to use Metro. Just because someone knows how to use Metro doesn't mean it works well. I know how to use Metro, but it still doesn't work as well as the desktop. There is a lot more going on here than just another "learning curve" situation.

  546. Pol says:

    This far my simple plan is this:

    Wait the official Windows 8 release.

    If I can disable or enable Metro interface Ok.

    If don´t, then buying an Apple Mac will be the best solution.

    I will never trust in a company like this.

  547. TS says:

    @WindowsVista567 I know that. I was just kidding. I think 8 is a non-friendly at all. And Metro with non-touch can't be the 1st player…

  548. Tyler says:

    I have a windows vista computer and I got the windows 8 preview. I thought it looked really cool, but then i realized that none of my games worked anymore because windows 8 is too advanced for this computer, so i tried to uninstall it, but it's more complicated than i can understand. Anyone have a website i can follow or know it off the top of their head?

  549. Pol says:

    The big problems here are:

    Divided Users.

    The "new futurisc utopia Windows direction"

    Ballmer.

    Kids noise.

    Ballmer.

    Metro.

    Ballmer.

    Apps Developers.

    Ballmer.

    Ballmer.

    Im for sure that my next computer will be an Apple.

  550. Pol says:

    Some, Windows users are so afraid so afraid about if you're a linux user or apple user, that mentallity is killing MS, The good thing is that I like both, Windows & Apple, I can live with both. But surelly I cannot live using Windows Fingerprints 8, its just a mess, a monster, Windows 8 will be Vista & Me 2

  551. Azul Wizard says:

    @Pol

    Let time (and people) decide.

    Worst case scenario? We all skip it…

    @Microsoft

    What is going to be the future of UIElement.Effect? And PixelShader support in general?

    Are C++ && D3D going to be the only way???

    What about XNA???

  552. Windows 8: A Giant Misstep Forward says:

    PS: I have to say that this is the MOST NEUTRAL and REALISTIC review I read.

    I've been playing with the Windows 8 Consumer Preview since it was released, and have gotten very familiar with it. While I find Metro to be a pleasure to interact with, I'm convinced that Microsoft is about to make a mistake with Windows 8. In short, I have a feeling that Windows 8 is about to become the new Vista.

    Metro is actually a great operating system / UI layer, and Microsoft deserves a lot of credit for innovating in a space that has become somewhat homogenized. It's fast, slick, and fun to use. But if there's one thing I'd like readers to take away from this post, it's this: Metro should not be a a replacement for the desktop, and does not belong on laptop or desktop computers.

    To really understand Metro, I think it's important to understand the problems that Microsoft is trying to address. I don't work for Microsoft, so I don't have any inside knowledge, but I suspect the following was largely the inspiration for the direction of Windows 8:

    The rise of Apple. When you look at the raw statistics, it's clear that Windows is still dominant, but when you look down the road, it's also clear that the trends are very much in Apple's favor. I work in the software industry, and it's incredible to see the complete lack of interest in Windows among technical and developer communities. When I look around the office, visit partners, and attend conferences, it's actually rare to see PCs now. You can easily spend several days at a conference with thousands of participants and not attend a single session where the speaker uses a PC, and in fact, not see more than a handful of laptops that aren't MacBooks.

    Consumer disinterest in Microsoft devices. I actually really love the Windows phone, but it's clear that Microsoft has yet to reach critical mass in the device market. I believe there's room for a third player (in addition to iOS and Android), and if anyone is going to be that player, it's probably going to be Microsoft, but they have a lot of catching up to do.

    Backwards compatibility. I think many Mac users wonder why Windows hasn't made bigger strides over the years when compared to OS X, but it's important to remember that Apple had the advantage of completely starting over again with their operating system. Back in 2002, the world didn't rely on Macintosh computers which meant that Apple had the luxury of essentially starting over while causing minimal disruption. Microsoft is in a very difficult position with Windows; I'm sure they want to innovate, but at the same time, so much of the world still runs on Windows that Microsoft can't just start over. In this respect, Microsoft has become a victim of its own success.

    Windows 8 is clearly designed to address these three problems. It's meant to appeal more to consumers, to be tablet-friendly, and it's meant to be the foundation of an entirely new and modern platform that doesn't have to be backwards compatible with almost twenty years of code. I can appreciate what Microsoft is trying to, however I don't think they're going about it in the right way.

    The biggest problem I have with Metro as a desktop replacement is that I consider it to be a massive over-correction. I think Microsoft is well aware of how much Macs have resonated with consumers, and have therefore tried to out-Apple Apple. In my opinion, that's a mistake for two primary reasons:

    One of the biggest strengths and advantages of Windows is that it's universally known. There are very few computer users out there who aren't familiar enough with Windows to be able to successfully use a Windows machine. In fact, although Macs have a reputation for being intuitive, I see a great deal of people who have switched to Macs only to be far more confused than they ever were with their PCs (I know this for a fact because I frequently get asked by friends and family to provide support for them). Metro, as nice as it is, entirely discounts this huge advantage that Microsoft should be leveraging as much as possible.

    Windows is still considered the workhorse of the business and enterprise worlds. It absolutely needs to become more consumer friendly, and could be improved in dozens of ways (a topic for a future post, perhaps), but I don't think the answer is to throw away the portions of Windows that do work really well.

    Although I really like Metro, I think that its emphasis over the desktop — and the treatment of the desktop as essentially "legacy" — are going to prove detrimental to the Microsoft platform. Here's why:

    All the Metro apps I've seen (and indeed all the apps I can imagine being developed in the Metro style) are consumer-oriented to the point of seeming almost frivolous. The apps most frequently highlighted and demonstrated focus on things like casual games and social networking. There's been no mention or demonstration of applications like Word, Excel, Outlook, Photoshop, Eclipse, etc. What about complex business dashboards? What about IDEs? How would one even build a Metro-style application using nothing but Metro?

    Metro's windowing model (referred to as "snap") is great for tablets, and in fact, probably represents the best multi-tasking tablet model I've seen. However, it's hugely underpowered for desktop use. In a environment where multiple monitors are common (I use a 27" and a 24" at the same time), and where machines have enough processing power and memory to run all the applications you care about simultaneously, the idea of moving to such an overly simplified windowing model feels like a big step backwards. Just to compose this blog post, I have more windows open and more tasks going than I feel I can accomplish effectively with Metro.

    Switching between applications in Metro is aesthetically satisfying, but impractical. Cycling through applications in a linear fashion is probably the worst and least efficient way to find the application you're looking for, and having to use a gesture to see a list of applications on the left side of the screen (many of which frequently look the same as thumbnails) is also not practical. Thankfully, Alt+Tab still works, but the primary way most users switch between applications (the taskbar) is gone.

    Switching back and forth between Metro and the desktop is the opposite of "fast and fluid" (Microsoft's words for how the Windows 8 experience should feel). I'm sure that Microsoft recognizes that this is less than ideal, and I believe they think it's only temporary. Desktop mode appears to be there primarily for legacy applications since the world needs time to rewrite their Windows apps as Metro-style apps. However, if you accept that the Metro application model is insufficient for many types of applications (namely the types of applications Windows is best suited and known for), then it follows that those apps won't be ported for some time, or possibly can't be ported at all. I think the idea is that those applications shouldn't be ported so much as reimagined in the Metro style, and I admit that reimagining application experiences is a good exercise, but that said, I'm having a very difficult time envisioning myself editing video, writing code, using a complex business dashboard, or doing professional design work in the world of Metro.

    Tiles are great on Windows phone, and I think would work well on a Windows tablet, however they're not that useful on the desktop. It makes sense for icons to be dynamic and to convey more information than just the application they represent, however it doesn't make sense to sit and watch email subjects scroll by one-at-at-time in a tile, or watch your friends' status updates come and go, or see one or two upcoming events in the calendar tile. Remember, this is a powerful desktop or laptop computer we're talking about here. In the time it would take me to watch a few emails scroll by in a tile, I can switch between my email, calendar, and twitter clients. On tablets and phones, moving between applications isn't quite as fluid, so I think tiles have more value, but on a desktop, I don't feel they improve my productivity or my general experience. (Tiles are essentially widgets, and to my knowledge, there has never been a widely accepted or successful widget model. Consider Dashboard, Windows Gadgets, Yahoo! Widgets, etc. Probably the most successful are Android Widgets — again, on mobile, not on a desktop.)

    I completely appreciate the "fast and fluid" experience that Microsoft is going for with Windows 8, however in its current form, it feels more confusing and overly reductive. It's difficult to switch between applications and to arrange and interact with multiple applications/windows simultaneously; and switching between desktop and Metro-style applications (which, even in the best case scenario, we will all probably need to do for the next five to ten years) is clumsy and inconsistent.

    I've seen a lot of people predict that Apple is going to replace OS X with iOS, and they point to several new features of OS X as evidence (the App Store, Launch Pad, etc.). I don't believe that's true. I think Apple is taking a very balanced and practical approach which dictates that they incorporate features of iOS into OS X only where it makes sense (and vice versa), but I don't think Apple will combine both operating systems into one. Apple seems to have a clear understanding that a desktop needs much more powerful and flexible features and interaction models than tablets, phones, TVs, etc. In my opinion, the best computing model is one in which all the devices you use have operating systems, UIs, and interaction models that are appropriate for that device's form factor and for its intended purpose with data being seamlessly shared between them. My interpretation of Windows 8 is that Microsoft tried to anticipate Apple combining their operating systems into one, and tried to beat them to it. However, I think they've beaten Apple to something Apple isn't interested in doing, and that actually represents a big step backwards in computer interaction and productivity.

    The good news is as much as I believe that Windows 8 is the wrong direction, I also believe it's relatively easy for Microsoft to fix. As I mentioned previously, Metro is a great tablet operating system which Microsoft did a fantastic job on, however in order for it to reach its potential, it needs to be branded and distributed slightly differently. Here is what I believe represents the correct model for Windows 8:

    Metro should only be for tablets, and for computers that convert between tablets and laptops. Only if a device doesn't have a keyboard and mouse should it be in Metro mode.

    The default mode for laptops and desktop computers should be desktop mode. The start button should be restored, and users should never be forced into the Metro experience. If they choose to use their computer in Metro mode, I think that's fine, but the desktop shouldn't be treated as a legacy mode which the operating system is constantly trying to get you out of.

    Devices that are both tablets and laptops (convertible devices) should switch back and forth between Metro and Desktop modes as appropriate. I think this would become an extremely popular computing model / form factor that Microsoft could dominate. I would love to have a powerful laptop (running Windows in Desktop mode) that I could undock and use in Metro mode when I'm away from my desk. This is what could give Microsoft the advantage on devices that they're looking for, and that they desperately need.

    Data and configuration should be shared between Metro and Desktop modes so that it's possible to switch seamlessly between the two easily. In other words, if I configure my email client in Desktop mode on my laptop, then undock the screen and convert it into a tablet running in Metro mode, the email application should already be configured, and all my email should be ready and waiting.

    Windows Desktop needs to become a more modern operating system. This is a topic for another post, but Windows needs a lot of work to make it feel as modern and polished as OS X. That's not to say that OS X is fundamentally a better operating system (I used both OS X and Windows 7, and I like them both), but if you really know and understand both environments, it's hard to argue that OS X doesn't feel one to two generations ahead of Windows in many ways.

    From a technical perspective, what I just described isn't that much different from what Windows 8 is today, however I believe it would make all the difference between Windows 8 being a huge success and something that Microsoft can build on for the next ten to twenty years, and being an albatross which Microsoft will spend the next ten years trying to undo.

    One thing the model I'm proposing doesn't address is Microsoft's desire to sunset a large portion of the Windows code base (which is just an assumption, but probably a pretty safe one). As I mentioned earlier, I think Windows 8 and Metro is a result of Microsoft's desire to break away from the confines and limitations of backwards compatibility. Rather than just breaking old applications or telling developers that they have to build new Windows apps, I think Microsoft's strategy is to make developers excited about reimaginging their applications as Metro experiences (and, of course, giving them an easy way to distribute and monetize their apps through the Windows 8 app store). As someone who has had to deal with the frustrations of a very old code base, I completely understand Microsoft's position, however I don't believe that Microsoft's objectives are in alignment with their end users' needs. Windows 8 is meant to be a kind of compromise — a stopgap measure — however in many ways, I believe it is the worst of both worlds.

    In order to deal with the issue of backwards compatibility, I would recommend that Microsoft simply start making some tough decisions about Windows Desktop and the APIs they support. They need to deprecate APIs, add new APIs, and eventually even break old non-compliant applications. I understand that Microsoft needs a new platform on top of which they can build and innovate for the next twenty years, and I would love to see a dramatically re-factored and even partially reimagined Windows Desktop — even if meant not being able to use all the same apps I'm using today. Throwing away applications in the name of progress is acceptable; throwing away so much of what we've learned about computing, and so much of the flexibility and power that we've come to rely on, is not.

  553. What a load of crap. why do all bloggers think there all experts and think they know what the consumers wants, this article was written the next day , windows 8 was released. I wonder how long the author tried the os  . if apple had than this it will be called revolutionary. I implore Microsoft to stick with their plans.

  554. Future Apple Customer. says:

    According to Apple's design guru, competitors are too busy trying to do something different instead of trying to solve basic problems.

    In a rare interview published by the London Evening Standard today, Jonathan Ive, Apple's senior vice president of industrial design, chatted about how the company goes about the design process, and what he believes competitors fail to grasp when going out on a limb with new products.

    "Most of our competitors are [interested] in doing something different, or want to appear new – I think those are completely the wrong goals," Ive told the outlet. "A product has to be genuinely better."

  555. !!! says:

    @nana688

    Did you write the Kybalion? are you The Master? Are you THE EXPERT?

  556. Apple's design guru yeah he is god, even the great steve  jobs is no longer with us.

  557. Future Apple Customer. says:

    So, Microsoft, stop being too busy trying to do something different instead of trying to solve basic problems. Like eliminating the crappy Metro UI.

  558. Braden says:

    If you bothered to read my whole post. I offered many suggestions to Microsoft, that would enable the desktop to be more powerful. Even going so far to say they should have an optional fly out menu, similar to the old start menu, whilst keeping the new start thumbnail and start screen. Many other small tweaks could improve metro, there are a small number of things, that actually do take longer (maybe one more click than Windows 7).

    If I was a total fan-boy, I wouldn't be offering suggestions, some of which will no doubt require quite a lot of development.

    I'm just being realistic, do you really think Microsoft are going to drop metro entirely? Of course not. So you want some tweaks, same as me. My article was mainly intended to dispel the notion productivity had been killed in metro. While some users hate the aesthetics, and may feel it is greatly slower. In reality with some tweaks, and improvements, it simply works, and is just as fast for most workflows.

    Of course I want Microsoft to please the broadest audience, which means all you guys, myself, and a host of new people, on a variety of new devices. I want Windows to be successful, far into the future, just like you guys do.

    There is no need to start flicking mud at each other, or calling people retards. Yes my nurse is writing this for me, because I'm much to retarded : )

    Lets see what Microsoft does.

  559. Pol says:

    @nana688

    I like Jonathan Ive & like Windows 7, see? you cannot think like that you cannot have a neutral point of view, you see? your fanaticism is bigger than your thougs.

  560. Pol says:

    @Pol

    The big problems here are:

    Divided Users.

    The "new futurisc utopia Windows direction"

    Ballmer.

    Kids noise.

    Ballmer.

    Metro.

    Ballmer.

    Apps Developers.

    Ballmer.

    Ballmer.

    Im for sure that my next computer will be an Apple.

    Apple Haters.

    Linux Haters.

    Windowers Kids.

  561. <