Reflecting on our first conversations (part 2)


As mentioned at the start of the last post, I wanted to pause for a moment and look back at the dialogue we’ve had via this blog, further exploring a few of the exchanges and inquires, just as we did with the Engineering Windows 7 blog. We’ll pick up where we left off the last post, discussing the importance of feedback, and then we’ll look at the discussions around the Ribbon, Metro style, and Media Center availability.

Ribbon

We thought the amount of energy around the redesign of copying files was immense. And then we posted about Windows Explorer. We even went into this knowing that there would be a lot of “energy.” To anyone who has hit on a controversial blog topic, the patterns are familiar. Rather than focus on the number of referrals from Slashdot (a lot more than other posts) or blog server performance (we tweaked our site layout for efficiency), let’s focus on the design choices.

Most importantly, this is one element of the product. Just as with the copy conflict dialog when you shine a light on it, brightly, there is a tendency to miss some things (on both sides) and to place more emphasis than it deserves. To return to our movie analogy, it is like when a specific scene is picked to market a movie and it inadvertently shifts the dialogue about the film (or even the target market). The good news is we have lots to talk about—a lot.

Without repeating the first post, I would add that we do believe we have taken into account many of the criticisms we were certain would surface. We chose the ribbon mechanism, and to those that find that a flawed choice, there isn’t much we can do other than disagree. We were certain, and this proved out, that the dislike of the ribbon is most intense in the audience of this blog. Said dislike, we assumed, would produce a high level of commentary, much the way some topics during Windows 7 blogging did. That assumption was correct.

There was a lot of back and forth over the role of the mechanism for different customers—is it advanced or beginner targeted? There’s irony here in that menus were once for beginners (the keyboard was what power users used), which then were simplified with toolbars. Context menus were originally shortcuts for advanced users, but ended up being used more by everyone. Now we are hearing (and seeing) that menus and toolbars are being touted for advanced users. Of course, we have been trying to unify these disparate mechanisms in an effort to have a simpler experience—fewer mechanisms means less UI surface area, by definition. While there are a lot of opinions, the one thing we know is that the satisfaction with our products that use the ribbon is much higher and the usage much broader and deeper. We also know a very small set of people remain unhappy. That was true in versions before the introduction of the Ribbon mechanism, though obviously for different reasons. It might be the case that no matter what we do, there will be a small set of people that are not satisfied?

To me the most interesting feedback has been about the visual overhead. The role of “Metro” came up and how we should use a lighter graphical treatment and also just expose fewer commands because people want minimalism now. Obviously we all want less—fewer exposed features means less surface area which means less code to write, test, maintain. Minimalism is not hiding features or making useful things hard to get to. Minimalism is about stripping things down to fundamental features. The question then is really defining that set of features. Our approach to minimalism is to avoid layers of commands or hidden pockets of features (those mechanisms themselves become conceptual and code overhead—bloat can come from UI itself, not just what UI exposes), and to reduce the number of mechanisms in the UI. In doing so, we aim to present the capabilities of the product in one manner. We also know that minimalism is not about doing less stuff, especially in light of all the feedback over features people want to see added to explorer.

The progressive or hierarchical rendering of features is the world we came from—some features are keyboard only, some context menu only, some top-level toolbars, some on toolbars you had to show/hide, some on menus or submenus, etc. This collection of mechanisms doesn’t work well for anyone except those who invest a lot of time. Of course if you invest a lot of time you become a very outspoken opponent of change. Perhaps there is some of that? I was a strong proponent of the Office 2000 “adaptive menus” that literally drove people crazy, and those were a deliberate attempt to have less clutter and less surface area. One failure is not a trend but the lesson that “hiding is not simplifying” is valuable I think. 

We have work to do as we continue to refine the way we have organized commands and what commands we should organize (map network drive, powershell), as well as the default settings and graphical treatment. We are actively considering the feedback in this regard. We share the goal in having a clean user experience. We also have the goal of making sure people can get done the things they do want to get done.  The role of data here is important when used correctly and it also helps us to avoid the use of small data sets or anecdotes driving the choices.

As the role of “Metro” came up, it became clear that for some, Metro is symbolic of a particular “palette” of colors and fonts, and perhaps some notion of controls. Several of the screen shots proposed were ones where some set of (less favored?) commands were dropped but primarily the change was to reduce the overall palette. We found the comparisons to some Metro apps like Zune interesting when you consider the amount of usage of competing products that are so much more “dense” and the requests for features that are in neither of the media players (CODECs, tags, etc.)

We’ve been looking at this and also trying to reconcile the feedback in this very forum around Windows 7 feeling washed out or “pale.” We actually added intensity and pixels to what we had in the Windows 7 design because of feedback we received via the blog. We’ll continue to look at this area of course, but want to avoid “churn” at a stylistic level because so many third-party products tend to mimic the Windows experience without utilizing the built-in metrics and system settings to obtain the palette (so things can look awkwardly different). This leads to the discussion of Metro styling.

Metro style

The challenge with the discussion of Metro style was definitely due to the ordering of our blog posts. We were not sure whether to speak abstractly at first or concretely. Given that nearly 6 million people viewed the video demonstration of the Windows 8 user experience (a rather in-depth demo) we felt that people already had the context for the user experience. That probably wasn’t a good assumption on our part. We also know that even with that much background, until you can touch the software it is going to be difficult to develop a complete picture. Many products look better or worse until you can use them. I’m fairly certain that in this case we have a lot of upside.

In many of the comments, people primarily focused on Metro as what I would say are the graphical elements of the user interface—it was Metro v. Aero. We’ve seen a clear turn where Aero is the past and Metro is the future. And with that a strong desire for the existing Windows experience to take on a new look or a Metro redesign. These comments are usually focused on style and looking “old” or “new.” Generally, those details of the visual styling come later in the engineering process, but we wrongly assumed that this was known. Stating that, we could have short-circuited this concern.

A lot of this discussion will depend ultimately on what Metro comes to mean for folks. As we looked at Metro style for Windows 8, as we talked about in an earlier post, we see much more than a more monochrome set of visuals and fewer controls (when there are fewer commands). We see a new platform, a reimagining of Windows. For Windows 8, Metro style means a new type of app—an app that learns from and improves upon the current (and most popular) platform. This is a lot of what we’ll talk about at BUILD. If you watch Video #1 you can see Metro style apps at work. At BUILD we’ll talk about the attributes of those apps, and the tools and languages you can use to create those apps. What we’ve said is that there is a very deep platform that provides for a rich opportunity for apps of all types—from media to social to games to productivity. We don’t see any limits to where this will go.

The other part of this dialogue is about the desktop. The desktop is many things to many people. To some it is literally the place where the important documents are stored (the most important folder). To some it is the Explorer window for managing files (it is an app to some). To some it is a metaphor or even Windows itself (toolbars/ribbons, menus, MDI/SDI, etc.). To some, their view of the desktop is an app they run “all the time” and they experience Windows only through File Open or maybe the Start menu (for example, people who for the most part use Outlook or Word, or Photoshop, or AutoCAD, or a line of business app). The desktop might even be relatively invisible to someone who does a lot of web browsing.

The unique element of Windows has always been the “open market” approach to interface. We embraced how people used and adapted the Windows APIs to bring unique experiences to market. Within any context there really isn’t a single “desktop” experience. Certainly some have been critical in the past that “Aero” did not achieve a uniformity or consistency, even within Windows.

We said the desktop is like an app in Windows 8—you can use it or not, as much or as little as you want. Some have said “it feels jarring” to go to the desktop. My perspective is that it is no more or less jarring that switching between any other apps if you embrace diversity or experiences that are built for a specific task or purpose. Today’s websites (and mobile apps) do not strive for consistency across disparate properties or apps, and the shell of a browser does little to prevent a jarring effect as you switch tabs (or apps). We’ve long embraced apps that have palettes or toolbars, full screen / windowed / MDI, built-in controls or custom controls. The mechanisms to implement this variety are part of the desktop heritage. Some wish for more uniformity or policing. As a member of the team that built our early Windows tools, I know we tried. Even in the most homogeneous platform, developers will strive to differentiate and build their user experiences for specific purposes and experiences will diverge from commonality  Commonality was an answer to complexity in another era–today we are surrounded by digital experiences of all different types and we readily adapt (just as people adapted to a wide variety of print formats or video formats as these technologies improved from their first generations).  The answer today is whether the design works in the context for which it was intended.

That diversity allows us to say with confidence that going from Metro style to the desktop will be harmonious—as harmonious as switching apps or sites is today. It will take orchestration at the top level to make moving seamless—that’s why you see things like switching between apps, snapping apps, or even using ALT+TAB between apps, and the desktop itself, all mechanisms that just work. The animations will work. Copy / Paste will work. Even bridging between “legacy” control panel applets will work.

There’s a lot more to this topic, as I said. I wanted to touch on some of the feedback and play back some of what has occurred to me and other folks on the team as we read through the dialogue. I think we need to do more in terms of showing the product and maybe we erred on the side of too much transparency too soon, but we’re on board and moving forward. BUILD is just a few days away.

Media Center

While not a central topic of feedback, I received about 50 emails about Media Center. I want to reassure customers that Media Center will definitely be part of Windows 8. No doubt about it. Knowing how strong the support for Media Center is among pre-release testers, we still have work to do to make sure the quality and compatibility with add-ins is what you would expect even in pre-release (as with any release of Windows, compatibility is a major effort and when we work on the underlying video engine, as one example, we have to make sure features that push these areas receive adequate coverage). 

In the coming months, many folks will be testing pre-release builds of Windows 8. As everyone knows, two things are always the case early on. First, the software is not done and things will change—features will be added and removed. Second, the different editions or SKUs are not developed or announced until late in the development process (closer to market availability).

Media Center will not be part of the first pre-release builds. Some other features/capabilities will not be in the first pre-release builds including: Windows 7 games, DVD Creator, upgrade setup, Dot Net 3.5 (Note there are perhaps a couple of other relatively low profile items but just wanted to hit the major ones here). These are engineering decisions as well as business decisions.

As we get closer to market availability, we will make sure to explain how not just these specifically but all features of the product will be made available. As an aside, it is early to start the dialogue about a preference for one SKU with Windows. We’re well aware of this feedback and we always need to balance it with the feedback from our business partners who value a different approach. We’ll cross that bridge when we come to it. Interestingly, the feedback about Media Center was predominantly “we will pay extra, just include it” based on the input directly to me. Today Media Center is part of “premium” SKUs for Windows, which means that is the case today.

In addition a lot of folks said “everyone I know uses it.” As I said, we’re completely committed to delivering Media Center in Windows 8, but I wanted to share some of the usage data. This data in no way influenced not delivering it as part of the first pre-release build—we are as committed as ever to Media Center.

Our opt-in usage telemetry shows that in July, Windows Media Center was launched by 6% of Windows 7 users globally with the heaviest usage in Russia, Mexico, and Brazil (frequency and time). However, most people are just looking around; only one quarter (25% of 6%) of these people used it for more than 10 minutes per session (individual averages), and in 59% of Media Center sessions (by these 6% of users) we see almost no activity (less than a minute or two of usage). TV was the most common scenario we observed, and not surprisingly, traditional media (DVD and CD) are less common (and declining over time) than streaming and file-based content. By comparison, Media Player (66% of Windows users in July) and IE (88%) are popular rendering engines for all types of media content, including an increased volume of “premium” and streaming content. This is another place we’re reminded of the tremendous diversity of Windows activity.

 

Those were a few of the major topics raised in comments in our first posts. Just as we did for Engineering Windows 7, we took a step back to calibrate our dialogue and reflect on the conversation. It is hard for us to find negatives in the feedback and passion around what we’re doing—what could possibly be better than to work on something that so many people care so deeply about. That you are investing so much in what we write and create, even before you have a chance to use the software, is certainly humbling. We’re focused on BUILD and making sure we do a great job showing off the work we’ve done, and are definitely excited to continue the dialogue. I look forward to those conversations in person at BUILD and here on the blog as well.

–Steven

Comments (533)

  1. Lance says:

    windows 8

    1. metro UI with HTML, java and css5

    2. 3D fully glassy aero interface

    3. Tiles with up to date

    4. push notification

    5. windows explorer with ribbon

    6. windows media player with high definition and 3D blu ray support

    7. new windows calender

    8. iso and vhd

    9. lock screen feature with widgets like time and push notifications

    10. apps feature

    11. auto windows up date

    12. new start menu

    13 . better security

    14. faster bootup

    15. microsoft Lync

  2. Zune zune zune zune zune!!! awesome software Microsoft….hope Windows 8 is similar if not better!

  3. A guy from Finland says:

    Why not integrate Media Center as a fullscreen mode etc. into Windows Media Player? It feels kind of useless and inefficient as a separate program.

  4. John says:

    I need recognition of my sixasis PS3 via bluetooth/usb

    An accurate benchmark tool and a temperature monitoring where we can select a temperature alarm that shut down the pc…..you're doing a good job 😉

  5. 6205 says:

    Show us some pictures man 🙂 Some tasty artwork. I bet that in less than a 24hrs will be on DeviantArt some lame, buggy imitation 🙂

  6. joe says:

    live wallpaper for the desktop would be nice

  7. Kevin says:

    @A guy from Finland

    I actually prefer Media Center to be separate from Windows Media Player simply because they serve two different purposes. I don't want all the UI of WMC in WMP. Likewise, MC is designed and can scale to larger screens (TV) for an audience that might be sitting several feet away.

  8. Windowsmediacenter says:

    Hi at all…..I'd like to see an integrated converter audio / video and a recorder (if possible in avi) of the desktop

    I need Windows Media Center for tv D:

  9. Desktopcolor says:

    Is there a way to change the color of the gadgets (also an option that change them according with the colors of the desktop? It would be fantastic

  10. Abdullah says:

    I hope you redesign how the classic windows looks

  11. Paint says:

    Please add a recognition and a way to get the backgrounds trasparent in Paint

  12. Interesting article 🙂

    I woul recommend to merge Movie Maker and DVD Maker, instead of a 2 single programms and please update Windows Fax and Scan with the Ribbon UI to get a clean UI for programms.

  13. Sam Sabri says:

    Really looking forward to seeing Windows 8. Can we expect deeper integration with Windows Phone and Win 8?

    gowindowsgo.com

  14. > As we get closer to market availability, we will make sure to explain how not just these specifically but all features of the product will be made available. As an aside, it is early to start the dialogue about a preference for one SKU with Windows.

    Is that mean, the whole system will be available componentized via Windows Store, when each user needs to build a SKU of it's own with only the features he need?

  15. MrTimSmith says:

    The reason Media Center is used as much is because it's not made as obvious. It needs to be merged with Windows Media Player and Zune. It needs to be THE media source for Windows 8 and versions going forward. I use Media Center with a cablecard personally instead of a cable box and I can't imagine ever going back. I think a lot of people would love Media Center if they got a chance to use it. So you guys need to think of ways to bring it more to the front and make more people aware of it. Making it the default media player would be a start.

  16. bigpunk says:

    Integrate zune into media center and I will buy a zune pass for the rest of my life and support Media Center Extenders (XBOX360) in Windows 8.

  17. Still nothing said about the Context menu?

    I think we can assume that nothing is changing on that front, it's a "stone" feature that's not going to be touched.

    Sad that in this case, Microsoft has looked at telemetry which says "Half your users do this" and instead of saying "let's make that thing better" they've said "let's try and force them to do something else".

    As to the ribbon… Don't forget that Office 2007/2010 brought a raft of fixes, expansions and improvements *apart* from the ribbon. That will have contributed to the takeup and customer satisfaction too.

    Also not mentioned in the "improvements to explorer" is whether or not explorer is a more stable, and efficient part of the Windows ecosystem.

  18. Desktopcolor says:

    And please a way to select which boot screen (I hope animated) use when we turn on the pc….it personalize a lot a pc…..

  19. I want to add that i ike the decison to inlcude Media Center in Windows 8, but add support for other recording formats (e.g. MP4) instead of the WMC format.

  20. Lance says:

    I LIKE THE GLASSY AERO INTERFACE AND RIBBON IS AWSOME .

  21. Thanks for the new on Media Center. With all the new cableCARD tuners released in the USA, it would be a major disappointment were it not to remain the premiere DVR software available. A few tweaks would be nice (like tuner swap on back to back recordings) and a new extender platform. But things are looking good.

  22. Windowsmediacenter says:

    Also in the tv recording in windows media center add the way to select in which format record (avi, mkv…..)

  23. Virtualization says:

    Microsoft putted native support for iso and vhd in windows….very good….but if there will be an integrated virtualization software (like virtualbox) that support iso and vhd???It would be one thing VERY FANTASTIC

  24. Alan says:

    I am a power user. I also absolutely -love- the Ribbon. Everytime I go back to an older version of Office, I feel weak and even intimidated. How deep do I have to dig to find this command that is one click away on the Ribbon, but is now hidden away in some corner of the app?

    I don't understand why some people think it is dumbed down for ordinary users. It exposes the same capabilities as menus. In fact, it exposes more capabilities by letting you preview choices before selecting them. Every button and command has an associated keyboard shortcut.

    To me, the Ribbon is "menus done right".

    – Commands aren't hidden away behind sub-sub menus. They are exposed in a top-level way.

    – Commands are grouped logically based on similar purpose.

    – The ribbon is far more graphical than a menu, making it easier to comprehend commands.

    – The ribbon allows for contextual tabs, replacing the need for context menus.

    – The ribbon allows for live previews of the results of a choice, before you make it.

    – The ribbon contains galleries which let you visualize alternatives.

    The only negative about the ribbon is that it does seem to make applications feel "top heavy". However, if you use the collapse feature, the ribbon behaves just like menus used to: You click a button and your commands drop down. Click a command and it goes away.

    I like the ribbon so much that I wish they used it in Visual Studio and Expression Blend. Gasp! Hang him! How dare he say such things! That would start an uprising! I know, I know. But really, the Ribbon is just so much more logical.

    I guess I am just 'special' but beyond the "top heavy" issue, I can't understand the arguments against the ribbon.

  25. I gotta say I LOVE!!! and cant live without Media Center…I mean I have a friken TiVo thanks to Microsoft

    You gotta love that

  26. Mark says:

    Without a doubt.. Media Center is huge for me. Rolling a full blown media center HTPC in my house with full HD streaming via cable card throughout.

    When I saw the windows 8 start screen the first thing I thought of was how PERFECT this is for the 10 foot experience.

    My solution… bake Media Center right into the home screen. I could easily see the tv guide application right along side the twitter / rss reader. A live TV application with a screen capture just waiting for my remote control.

    I would pay extra for Windows 8 Media Center Edition.

  27. Todd Garrison says:

    Media Center Lives!

    I'm so happy to know that the CableCARD PC in my living room will eventually be able to experience all the new app model goodness and not be left stuck running Win7.  Immersive UI on 80 inch screen.  Yes, please.

  28. Kevin says:

    I'm not a huge fan of the ribbon/metro styling myself, but I'm glad that you put in a 'reduced mode' for the ribbon – I can definitely see myself using that.  As for the choice to go with the ribbon:  I wonder why you haven't discussed the possibility of using tabs within windows explorer?  Like web browsing, while doing development/deployments I often find myself having 10-15 explorer windows open.  Granted, some of this could be due to my  own inefficiencies but I believe that tabbed folder browsing could be very useful.

  29. Vicenza says:

    1. Hi at all and good luck for windows 8 😉

    2.  Please add the multiplayer via wifi and internet in the pre-installed windows games

    3. Re-add Pinbal (as someone said, it would be best to update the graphics and add features for the touch screen).I really like that game xD

  30. Roland S. says:

    I'm delighted that Media Center will continue to be part of Windows. I don't have a separate TV but use WMC to record TV and watch it on my 30" monitor.

    My parents have ripped all their CDs to their laptop and use WMC with a remote control to listen to their music collection in the living room (the laptop is attached to a Hifi system). Countless guests have asked my parents: "Wow, this is wonderful! What cool software is this?" Each time they learn it's part of Windows and that they already own it, they cannot believe how they could miss this. They mostly say: "Yeah, I checked it out briefly but thought it was only for watching TV". Of course, most people don't know that a remote control is the key that really unlocks WMC.

    You should better communicate how great WMC is and the numerous usage scenarios, then much more people may grasp and use it!

    BTW; c't, Germany's most respected computer magazine, tested several media center/settop boxes/TV solutions in their latest issue. The WMC-based solution was top-rated while Apple TV rated poorly.

  31. Glad to see you are focusing on the big areas.  I like the fact you are all in on Metro – I'm tired of looking at the corners of my monitor to start applications, and will appreciate the front & center more appealing view of Metro.  I personally love the Ribbons, but I know others that struggle with them.  As for Media Center, I must say that I have only ever contributed to your data of "Opened it, and never really used it".  XBox is my source for entertainment – I gave up watching stuff on a PC once I started working with a computer for 8 hours a day every workday.

  32. Windows Media Center is the best "Media Center" out there.. spetialy for "Music" and "Tv".. Hope we get a  Tv Tuner to work properly with Brazilian Digital Tv.

  33. Can we get .mkv support in media player (along with a usable design)? It's free, open and heavily used so I to me it's a no brainer.

    It would also be nice if you merge the three different media players (media center, media player, zune) into one application that can do it all. Or if not that at least a dedicated music player and a dedicated movie player. Make it simple for users to know what application they need to use to do what.

    Finally clearly the ribbon is staying so whatever you do please do not ship it as it's looking now, make it pretty at least. No matter how you try to twisty things it's very ugly at the moment, it doesn't have to be Metro, but it shouldn't look like explorer suddenly had a bought of explosive diarrhea.

  34. So .net framework 3.5 is not available in the beta. Is the .net framework, 4.0 supported. And can programs, written for 3.5 still work in Win8 beta even when they are not upgraded by VS2010?

    Thanks for noticing our interest in the metro design for the desktop. I like the idea that the desktop will just be another app. I really hope it will feel that way, so the 'new' windows won't feel like an addon.

    With this discussion ongoing, I think it's best if you show us some design examples for the ribbon interface that are different from those you've shown earlier. Besides that people like the functionality, none I've seen, said the ribbon looked nice in explorer. I'm sure you have worked out some ideas like the duplicate file dialog, so please get us in that conversation. Have us take a look and comment on what we feel looks the best and fits te best.

    I think by doing such thing, you really start a conversation that, in my eyes, makes a difference for Windows 8 for the good.

    Thanks!

  35. So .net framework 3.5 is not available in the beta. Is the .net framework, 4.0 supported. And can programs, written for 3.5 still work in Win8 beta even when they are not upgraded by VS2010?

    Thanks for noticing our interest in the metro design for the desktop. I like the idea that the desktop will just be another app. I really hope it will feel that way, so the 'new' windows won't feel like an addon.

    With this discussion ongoing, I think it's best if you show us some design examples for the ribbon interface that are different from those you've shown earlier. Besides that people like the functionality, none I've seen, said the ribbon looked nice in explorer. I'm sure you have worked out some ideas like the duplicate file dialog, so please get us in that conversation. Have us take a look and comment on what we feel looks the best and fits te best.

    I think by doing such thing, you really start a conversation that, in my eyes, makes a difference for Windows 8 for the good.

    Thanks!

  36. Alex says:

    Make media center an optional component to download like live mail. This would save image size, good for enterprise deployments.

  37. Will it be possible to watch the BUILD conferences through the Web?

  38. @Steven Sinofsky and Windows Team

    Minimalism:

    If there seems to be a trade-off between minimalism and functionality in certain situations, I would *always* prefer functionality, because I use Windows not for watching its minimalim but for using its functions. And I don't like minimalism generally, because it tends to become excessive minimalism which means removing and hiding features (like Advanced Search Pane which was removed in Windows 7). I agree: “hiding is not simplifying”. And I would say: "removing features is not simplifying". Your Ribbon approach combines minimalism (option to minimize Ribbon) and a lot of functions, that's great! Keep it up!

    Customizability:

    Please give us as much customizability as possible. Newbies wouldn't touch it, power users would love it. Customizable QAT is a great improvement, but more is always welcome. 😉 You could maybe consider customizable Ribbons like in Office 2010. That's just a suggestion, the recently revealed customizable QAT is already amazing in my opinion.

  39. John says:

    Love Media Center. Please make sure NetFlix works awesomely with it without xbox. Am moving my whole house tv to it when the ceton usb tuner come out. I think a lot more people would use it if previous releases had been more seemless to set up. They may have been put off and not come back for another look. Also the new ceton and sd tuners are making it easier to adopt. Support in the box for more than 4 turners would be nice too. Even if it's just 6 or 8. Very common to have more than 1 tied up for dvr at any one time. PS my W7 box stopped recognizing my MC remote which has made me leave MC early trying to rectify that so I account for 58% of that 59%. 🙂  We love MC.  Please invest in making it even better in the future.  THANK YOU!!!

  40. Commentator says:

    I agree with DanielM2……mkv support in windows media player is very very useful…..

  41. Vivek Pai says:

    Maybe when showing UIs, you should show both the expected UI for power users (minimized ribbon with QAT buttons) and that for beginner users (expanded ribbon). And even just show how simple it is to go between the two…that would clear up some of the confusion regarding bloat, etc.

    That said, I feel like with the ribbon, explorer just seems visually busy. Maybe it increases usability, but that initial perception that there are so many options now can be a huge turn off.

    Also, I think it would be neat if during account setup, you can identify yourself as a power/normal home user and have the UI default to the appropriate settings.

  42. Tom Parker says:

    I've invested a lot of time & money into media center of the years my whole digital house is based around the system. I' m thrilled that you are keeping media center in windows 8 and i don't mind paying extra for it. Also the hardcore users turn off the anonymous usage feedback so I would say theres more % then what meets the eye.

  43. Gamer says:

    I need a simple way to connect/disconnect the bluetooth devices, without install/disinstall drivers……also support via usb/bluetooth for sixasis (joistick) of the ps3 would be fantestic (someone in the blog say these things and i agree with them).

    Is true that mkv is needed in media player……

  44. Explorer vs Start Screen says:

    @Steven Sinofsky

    What do you think the usage scenarios will be for the Start Screen and Explorer. Do you think that the majority of users will stay in one or the other for most of the time? Or do you think that the majority of users will be constantly switching back and forth between the two?

  45. @DanielM2 & @Commentator – Yes MKV support would be great. And some better blueray file support would be awesome to. Hopefully the world doesn't move from codec/format as soon as Microsoft supports it.

  46. josefec says:

    I would like to add a comment to the dialogue you are embracing. I think you must have seen the website of Windows 7 Taskforce: http://www.windows7taskforce.com

    It was a great platform to get to know what is really desired by the community because the system of pluses and minuses that people can give to particular problems or feature and enhancement requests is really great form of feedback.

    I hope you yourself will start something like this for Windows 8 later in the development process when people have access to the pre-release versions… It would be really great.

  47. Great to hear that WMC is staying around. We use it daily for watching/recording live TV, Netflix, DVDs/BDs, and music.

    However, I wouldn't complain if the functionality was integrated into the Start Screen, even if it was just a "TV" tile. Optional download from the Windows Store would make sense too.

  48. Manso says:

    Very informative – keep up the good work, guys!

  49. Thank you for a great post explaining a bit the big questions that were out there. I think one of the greatest part of Windows is the time spent creating a dialog with its passionate community of users.

    You mentioned software being included/not included. OEMs typically include trial versions of software, and many junk apps that slow the computer down or provide very limited value. Great applications like Microsoft Security Essentials are almost unknown to most users, which is a real shame.

    If software can't be bundled with Windows due to legal constraints, can a ballot screen type selection be provided? I imagine slots could be auctioned off to software developers to include their apps on the selection list as well.

    Example:

    Choose an anti-virus program:

    None – Microsoft Security Essentials (free) – Competing Anti-virus ($$) – Other Competing Anti-Virus ($)

    Would be very helpful with non-techies getting setup, provide visibility to unknown applications, and would let users be in control of what is installed on their machine.

    Just a thought.

  50. One cool thing the Windows XP Media Center had that the Windows 7 Media Center did NOT have was transparent background for Closed Captions

    Would be a nice feature to re-add

  51. I'm actually quite curious about this telemetry information that you collect, seems to be VERY detailed and I'm wondering how anonymous is this data? Also how would one opt out of sending this information, not that I want to but are users given that option?

  52. tN0 says:

    I'm really sorry to say this because obviously you have put a lot of time and effort into this but there are a lot of things I can't agree with.

    The current design of Explorer has only ONE menu, the "Organize" menu. How can you say that features are spread across and hidden in multiple places? That is what you will do with the Ribbon. Useful features like the "Slideshow" command will be hidden in Tabs while features that literally nobody ever should need (like "copy path") are on the most prominent places of the UI. Another example: Why would a user ever go to the "View" tab to select "Refresh" when their already always is a refresh button on the address bar? And finally: where is the Undo command?

    I tried to get some answers about what the Save and Open dialogs will look like. Will we see the Ribbon there, too? Because to me this seems to be the place where people get in touch with the Explorer UI more often. They open files within an application and they save files within an application. Still not one single word on this issue yet.

    Yes, it seems unfair to judge an interface by still images. But we already know this interface. I personally have used (and loved) the Ribbon interface for 4 years now! On Office, later on WordPad and even Paint. It works really great for creating and editing documents. But it doesn't work very well on Windows Live Mail and Photo Gallery. I was really disappointed about the usability on Photo Gallery and was not able to explain it to my parents who still use the old version until today.

    How on earth am I supposed to explain the Ribbon Explorer to my mother? Seriously. She will be afraid of it always popping up when the only thing she want is to open a single photo, sending two photos via email or displaying a slideshow of photos in one folder.

    All these things we can see on the static screen shots: That the icons in the Quick Access toolbar are too small. That there are too many things that "explain" the interface instead of providing functionality (group labels, Tab labels on top of Tabs). We can see that there is too much redundancy: like the pointless "Refresh" button, like a "Rename" button and others. And we can see that some Ribbon Tabs are almost empty and you didn't found features to put into.

    And I want to say that the static images also show us that the team didn't really focused on simplicity at the first place. You didn't removed a feature because you thought that people want even more features. But at the same time you said (or I understand it like that) people aren't using all features already available. Well, maybe they just don't wanne change the view of file extensions 13 times a day? Maybe they don't need all features?

    What I was hoping for Windows 8's Explorer was more smart simplification. Why not just get rid of the File Extension option? Always display them grayed out. A lot of people turn this on and security experts were asking to turn them on by default for years. You could solve three problems by just removing it. Do you remember the Font Dialog Box controversy? I guess so.

    Or why can't the Columns in the Details View be re-sized automatically? Why do we need more buttons on features we shouldn't need? Who really has to rotate photos? Almost all photos taken should be already rotated correctly. And even if they aren't rotated correctly, it is even simpler to double click a photo and press "rotate" there instead of moving to the Picture Tools Ribbon Tab and rotate them and go to the Home Tab back again for future actions. *sigh

    And even *IF* the Ribbon would be a better solution to the problems you see in telemetry, what about the risks? Did you thought about what could happen? Maybe a less effective Explorer from your point of view would even be better for the overall product? It should be obvious that this will cause even more controversy, unfair comparisons (Explorer vs. Finder) and such dramatic changes do always need more training, more learning and need time to be implemented.

    I can't help but get the feeling that this all may be a result of internal wars between teams inside Microsoft. I remember that there were leaks about an Internet Explorer with a Ribbon interface but the design team won this battle. On Windows Explorer it seems that another team is winning. But not the users, IMHO

    You were on a brilliant ride with Windows 7. I'm afraid you leaved this path and move straight to the next "Clippy".

    (I'm sorry for my terrible English, but as an interaction designer myself I had to post this)

  53. domenicoav says:

    Media Center ? ….. Media Center is futile in Metrò UX.

    I love media center but Metrò UX is  Media Center, because metrò is born in Media Center.

  54. domenicoav says:

    @Arrow22

    Read this post http://www.zdnet.com/…/2191

  55. hey.. says:

    when are we going to get windows 8 beta??

  56. Ramdisk says:

    In Windows 8 can be putted a way to shut down all the system components (or almost of them) except for the ram?I need it for the ram disk……also a way to get windows 8 installed in the ram disk will transform it in the best and fast o.s.

  57. increase the saturation… it looks like the screen is washed out after being in the sun for a month.

  58. Languages says:

    @ Mr. Sinofsky

    "This is a lot of what we’ll talk about at BUILD. If you watch Video #1 you can see Metro style apps at work. At BUILD we’ll talk about the attributes of those apps, and the tools and languages you can use to create those apps."

    I don't suppose we could convince you to answer this question: "Are HTML and Javascript the only languages you can use to write Metro apps?"

  59. Is there some way that users outside of Microsoft can query this telemetry data? It seems like it would be very useful for many other application development scenarios.

  60. pmbAustin says:

    What Windwos 8 needs (and heck, Windows 7 NEEDS it), is standard Windows drivers for trackpads that support multi-touch gestures, especially 2-finger scrolling.  The existing drivers out there (I'm looking at you Cypress, on the Dell XPS 15z) are really HORRIBLE, and it really makes windows look bad (especially compared to OS X).

    Please bake touch-pad gestures into Windows truly and fully.  And even better, give us some Win7 drivers for existing multi-touch-capable touchpads that are smooth and accurate, so we don't have to put up with these utterly crappy 3rd party drivers!

  61. jahxp says:

    I dont understand why we need Windows Media Center in Windows 8. In the new Start Screen we will have a tile named videos, a tile named images and a tile named music, and the new Metro UI is too similar than previous versions of WMC. Why do we need an aditional app for doing the same?

    Good job in the blog and good job with windows.

  62. Paul from Italy says:

    I still think less invasive and less overloaded ribbons are the right way to go.

    See this ( it's interactive, you may click on the File Menu)

    idsg01.altervista.org/…/default.html

    A touch interface isn't easy to master when you've got a workload of icons and menu items on a ribbon (some of which too small to be fingered easily). Relegating complex and seldom-used actions in a secondary ribbon and letting the most frequent commands to be accessed and clicked with ease might be the right way in my humble opinion.

  63. Robert4WPF says:

    @Steven Sinofsky

    I assume that your mention of .NET 3.5 is a typo and you meant .NET 4.5?  Otherwise I am very confused

  64. windows customers says:

    Ribbon is awesome. please keep the ribbon. i like the windows 8 explorer so far.

  65. @Tn0 – I agree with you with some part. I fully agree with that extension idea, but i'm sure Microsoft has done it's studies to see how the ribbon works out for mothers like ours. But like you said, it's more a solution to make the problem less painfull but not fixing them.

    With that being said, I know alot of people who don't like Windows thinking for the user. So looking at that, I might see the point that if they do resize columns automaticly everytime some people might dislike it.

    I would suggest a 'advanced' or quick tools tab to put functions like copy path into so the main ribbon can look more simple. I guess we will see

    (Sorry if this is a double post, but this site really doesn't work well with IE9 using Windows 7. This site has just tons of bugs 🙁

  66. JohannesB says:

    Steven, I don't want you to think that you gave us to much transparency to soon. Just because of some negative feedback from people who don't really have a clue of what the whole picture looks like (well no one outside of Microsoft does yet really). My opinion is that you have given us just the right information, at just the right time, when you are really confident that you can deliver. Hope to see more in-depth posts before BUILD as well.

  67. pmbAustin says:

    I love the idea of the Ribbon.  I just think it can be made to look better.  It can keep the functionality and discoverability and convenience, while still being cleaner looking, more touchable, and more customizable.  I hope some effort is expended in that direction.

  68. Philipp says:

    Does the numbers for Media Center include sessions on extenders? I almost never use Media Center on my PC (because I prefer Media Player or other IE for consuming media content while doing other things), but when I watch TV in the evening (or tune in to the news in the morning), I do so using my Xbox Extender.

  69. don't forget that those short sessions in Media Center were just setting it up for Xbox streaming. which is what i use it exclusively for.

    btw, if Metro had trasparent window frames and taskbar. that would be the BET option.

  70. PBJake says:

    Can I suggest one thing? Not to take away anything from your reveal of SKU's, I think there should only be two SKU's: Windows 8 Personal and Windows 8 Professional.

  71. i agree, i think Media Player and Media Center should culminate into the same product. there essentially the same with a different interface anyway.

  72. @DanielM2 — the telemetry is opt-in, the data sent is anonymous, and there is no personally identifying information.  

  73. Jeremy says:

    I agree with JohannesB. I don't think you are being too transparent. I think you are providing the right amount of transparency. The exception being information about how you write Metro apps. I don't think its too much to state whether or not HTML will be the only way to write these apps.

  74. @Robert4WPF — Not a typo.  Windows 7 had 3.5 in it.  

    @JohannesB – thank you!

  75. PBJake says:

    Here's an idea for ribbons, since most monitors are widescreen resolution these days, why don't we increase the vertical space and put the ribbon interface on the right side? People mostly look at the file name and don't always read Date Modified and Date Created

  76. DanielWollmann says:

    I'd say the people that are really using Media Center probably have a dedicated machine, which can reflect the low utilization numbers cited. I'd love to finally see the Extender Software or SoftSled avaliable in Windows 8, so we can connect the other PCs and enjoy 100% the networked TV scenario, without the burden of setting up Media Center, channel management in each PC.

  77. PBJake says:

    Steven, can you answer this — is the name 'Windows 8' engraved as the final version name or is it just a codename?

  78. PBJake says:

    I think WMC and WMP cannot co-exist, especially with the Zune software filling the music needs. It's about time to retire WMP!

  79. tN0 says:

    @Peter van Dam: Sure Windows shouldn't be too smart. I know this will never work as we have seen in the past on Office 2003. But when you open a new window on a widescreen monitor you almost always have empty space on the right side when you switch to Details View. It should just very simple use the space that is available. Re-size one time and done. And when you re-size the window why not just re-sizing the columns? That's the reason why a users changes the size of a window in the first place: to see more content.

    This is just one very small example of a real problem with the current UI that I'm afraid will not get solved. And such problems can't be seen in telemetry or other statistics.

  80. @Steven Sinofsky

    You talked about Media Center- how about Media Player? I saw some of the demos, its icon didn't show off. Will there be 13th version of it or when we want to listen to music or watch short video that we have to open a big- fancy Media Center?

  81. Brian R says:

    Steven,

    I totally believe your WMC usage stats are somewhat representative.  However, just recently have we seen CableCard tuners start showing up on the market at reasonable prices with positive reviews.  Those cards and network devices really open up WMC as a solid HTPC platform.  If WMC's featureset was opened up a bit, copying and/or improving on the likes of XBMC getting a PC in the living room powering extenders or sharing tuners to the rest of the PC's in the house is a reality very soon.  Honestly, 6% of all *reporting* Win7 installs is impressive to me since MS does nothing to make WMC known.  That number will grow if MS promotes WMC, tunes it's interface, and works with Manu's to exploit WMC + CableCards as pre-built HTPC's at a reasonable price.

    Hell, if I can get my wife to be ok spending the kind of money I did on a dedicated HTPC anybody can (assuming the disposable income exists).  Within a year we'll recover a decent amount of costs not paying for DVR's in the house.  Our xbox and cheap net-top have replaced our other receivers.

    Seriously, please show it some engineering, marketing, and promotion love.  If you guys trim some of the bloat and get it to suport more codecs out of box (or support a download location for addons that do so) it will shine.

    Brian

    P.S. having Win7 have a "WMC Mode" at bootup would be sweet too.  Straight to WMC (allow autologin w/o a reg hack and supressing all other boot animations) and allow you to back out to the OS would be amazing.

    P.P.S. This OS looks amazing.  Keep up the great work and thanks for sharing, listening, and responding to the community.

  82. Windowsfan says:

    On the subject of "Metro vs. Aero."

    I'd encourage you all to look at this video (you may want to turn down the volume first):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch

                        This is a video I found of an early build of windows 8 (build 7989). In it, we see flat, Metro-style minimize, maximize and close buttons. We see the Metro style buttons of the History vault (more of this in Explorer please, Windows 8 team). We see the Metro Segoe font being used throughout the OS, especially in the redesigned task manager. And behind it all we see a stripped-down version of Aero; it's still around, but its cleaner and forms thinner chrome around windows. I like what Microsoft has done here. We have the beauty of Metro typography/icons and  the distinctive, translucent form of Aero (this is better than using single, solid colors on the desktop UI. on the Start screen, single colors seem to work very well, but they won't here.) Before,  I thought the two couldn't possibly exist together, but this early video shows us that it can be done. Btw, though I feel it needs work, the ribbon doesn't look too shabby in this video. The whole product is already beautiful, even in the early stages.

    On the subject of the "Ribbon" UI.

                         A lot of people around the web have been comparing Windows 8's Explorer to the Finder on OS X. When placed side-by-side, Finder seems to have the upper hand when it comes to usability because it looks "leaner" and "more streamlined." Upon closer inspection, this actually translates to "fewer options." Most operations can be found on the ribbon, but in Finder, one has to be very familiar with the OS to be productive. Even Copy/paste is easier on Explorer than on Finder, and the ribbon will make windows even MORE advanced. I find this ironic in a world where Apple is seen as forward-thinking when it comes to user-friendliness. If I had never used a computer before, Finder would simply be tougher to use effectively. what do all the symbols mean? where are the commands? they're all accessed via keyboard commands/submenus. By hiding commands, much of the power Finder may have to offer is diminished. Compared to the new Explorer, Finder's UI is so basic that it ought to be seen as a slightly more robust Start menu. I think the "geeks" around the net underestimate casual computer users. I don't think anyone who sees the Explorer ribbon will think " wow, that looks really bloated and intimidating." They'll see it as a table where everything they need is put out for them; whenever they need to use a function, they'll look for it, find it written in simple language on the open layout, and remember where it is whenever they need it again. Grandpa probably won't remember all the keyboard shortcuts he can use, but if he can read, he can probably remember to press the buttons with pictures that say "cut" and "paste" to move files around. It's simple really. If the ribbon is CUSTOMIZABLE, that will make using the UI even easier for users, since we all have very different needs.

    To the team:                    

                           Are you going to provide the option to use wallpapers on the Start screen? That would be SO much better than using JUST colors throughout the whole thing. On the "Designing for Metro Style…" page, TimoTim posted these beautiful pics of the Start screen with wallpapers in the background  (of course, I already believe you'll provide this option, common sense prevailing. this is just in case…)

    blufiles.storage.live.com/…/win8_start_print%202.jpg

    blufiles.storage.live.com/…/win8_start_print%205.jpg

    blufiles.storage.live.com/…/win8_start_print%2010.jpg

  83. @tN0 – Thanks for your feedback

    First, I agree with you. Whitespace = wasted space most of the time.

    But, I guess it's pretty diffecult to make it autoresize on resize. For example, I personally don't care that much about tags, creators etc. I just want filename and last edit date. Even with more columns added, the most important column for me is filename.

    I'm not sure if this happends in programs or on webpages, but for me the wrong column always resizes. I for example want filename to be expandable so it uses all the space minus edit date. Now if I resize my window, I don't want my edit date to get smaller. I just made it fit perfectly. I want my filename to get smaller.

    So I hope that this button to resize the columns is smart, and as soon as I trust it that it works, I would reconsider adding auto-resize. But if it was on right now, it would be annoying.

    On a side note, it also has to work. For example, the search bar in the current explorer ALWAYS resizes to wrong widths, even when I'm never changing it's width! So maybe this helped me not to be confident about auto resizing for now.

    I hope this clears some up on why people might not like the auto resizing. I would love it, but it really has to work perfectly to be not annoying.

  84. rayan says:

    hi ,

    can you support (  solar calendar / Hijri calendar SSI ) in windows 8 ? it is usefull for Persian users …

  85. @BumbleBritches57 — they are essentially the same product and all of the management and playback code is shared between them.  They are different user interfaces on top of the same data, with the user interfaces tuned for different scenarios.  You wouldn't organize your music collection with remote in front of a tv nor would you be all that comfortable watching full length movies all the time with a laptop.

  86. @dovella

    Thanks for the link. It's a very interesting read!

  87. Commentator says:

    I like windows media player because it opens very fast the musics the films…..so the speed on opening the files, the folders, the application is in my opion a very important point……in any way please add the support for mkv in wmp

  88. @Steven Sinofsky

    in windwowsfans video, you see that in the top left is the locale info, and bottom left is accessability options, and the ottom right is the shutdown tasks, why are these buttons not in the same row?

    yes, i understand that the UIs are different because of different uses, but i'm suggesting that media player be able to record video and stream to extenders, and that you have a Xbox Metro esque UI that can be enabled within WMP directly. getting rid of media center.

  89. domenicoav says:

    @arrow22 welcome ^_~

  90. and lets be honest, i don't know anyone that uses WMP for editing media metadata. people either use iTunes or they use MP3Tag. or one of hundreds of other products.

    btw, the Ribbon should be introduced into WMP14

  91. Windows Media Center

    I do not use Windows Media Center because it is inconvenient. I quickly discover that what I need through Explorer. Double click it – the file is started. Possibility of establishing a filmography in Windows Media Center in my opinion worse than, for example in AllMyMovies, which synchronizes the data on the film selected me sources (amazon, kinopoisk & etc.) TV in WMC shows slower than the program that came with the tuner in WMC less encoding formats supported for recording video streaming.

    The same can be said about Windows Media Player – almost never use, give preference to programs with a concise design and broad functionality, previously was WinAmp, but now mostly Aimp. A look at movies through Medis Player Classic, because it's faster, there are more opportunities (shaders & etc).

    I somehow think that creating WMP someone tried to create an equivalent for iTunes. But I do not like iTunes, even if we consider that there scent design clearer.

    That is why some in Russia "with the heaviest usage" do not use WMC. I even thought that people use WMC only because they do not know that there is a more convenient program. I do not want to post it seemed negative or aggressive, just as is said on my PC.

    I understand that to create something really comfortable, new and beautiful in modern conditions became difficult, but it's difficult does not mean impossible, especially with such a potential which has the Microsoft. When you stop to do something similar to existing, and again make something of themselves, will succeed. IMHO

  92. Thanks for the great write-up, Steven. With regard to the Ribbon, I've got to admit that I was reluctant when it was first introduced in Office, however I can't seem to function when I move to older versions so it's without a doubt a good UI choice, and people will get used to it.

    Metro UI is the best thing Microsoft has done in the UI space and everyone I've shown it to was blown away. I think the biggest problem in the Win8 demo video was the color scheme, which was a bit clown-like. A unified color scheme like that of Windows Phone maybe a better approach, obviously with the ability to customize as one would choose.

    The biggest thing for me are the dev tools. I'm really excited to hear about that. As a developer, the most frustrating part of my job is building UI. I hate having to go to 3rd parties like Telerik to get controls that I feel should be provided in Visual Studio. If Microsoft gives developers an easy and standardized method of building UI and things like easy to implement animation, then all Windows apps would look awesome and consistent. I get the whole lookless approach that Microsoft goes for, leaving it to developers to add the pizzazz, but you've got to remember that most of us don't have designers. While this is probably not a concern of Win Div and more Dev Div, I think that it should be taken seriously.

  93. Chris McGrath says:

    On the topic of the ribbon, I think, by default it should be collapsed, i think if you did that a lot of the negative feedback become irrelevant.

    The other thing is PLEASE tell us the icons in the ribbon are still a work in progress. The best example is the "Up" button. The style of it looks completely out of place. There is no consistency between the colours in the icons. As Mark Miller says – "Hue variance should justify itself." – community.devexpress.com/…/great-ui-clarity-and-color-on-the-presentation-layer.aspx

    At the moment the hue changes for no reason.

    (And seriously, for each article I have written a comment, the first time I hit post it doesn't send correctly! Luckily I've learnt to copy what I write before posting, please fix this, & as I said in the last post, please go to a more stackoverflow style of comments)

  94. tN0 says:

    @Peter van Dam: I remember that Vista Beta 1 had this auto re-sizing feature in Explorer and for me it worked great. It only was very slow. I will not say that there is a very simple solution. But re-arranging buttons isn't a solution at all to such a problem, IMHO.

  95. "Of course, we have been trying to unify these disparate mechanisms in an effort to have a simpler experience—fewer mechanisms means less UI surface area, by definition"

    So why do you use ribbions which do the opposite? They use more space.

    GIVE THE USERS AN OPTION IF THEY WANT TO USE IS OR NOT!

  96. btw, another UI idea, please PLEASE stop arbitrarily rounding the corners, it looks terrible, it adds absolutely nothing.

  97. Tom says:

    Please make all windows apps like Windows Media Center, DVD maker etc.. optional. (Can be install as add-in)

    Windows 7 by default installation is bloated! Like some services started up, but not needed.

    Less is more.

  98. @Andrea the ribbon actaully uses significantly less pixels than the old menu system did, and it pulls EVERYTHING to one unified place. which is by definition a great UI.

  99. msft777jf says:

    Windows 8 needs Push notifications for it's real-time apps

  100. Morten says:

    I find if very interesting that you say this blog is to have a conversation and get feedback, but at the same time you basically write that audience who reads this blog is wrong, and they don't know what they are talking about. So what good is the feedback, if you regard us as a minority that can't be counted on?

  101. HandNF says:

    It will seem jarring at first to switch to my desktop. At least, the idea is strange, but I do it all the time. Firefox, Thunderbird, then Windows + D (Show desktop). I imagine Windows 8 will be a bit intuitive to me.

  102. Hey! Yes, I'm talking to the Windows Explorer Designers and Steven says:

    Someone had a recent post (all credit due to him). PLEASE look below Steven!:

    Lighter icons mean more fresh feel on it by the way clean the whole experience that users may have with ribbon UI. About the scrollbar- as I suggested long ago along with the other element like button should be refined as well-it's not a huge makeover just little tweak so user still can feel familiar while newer at the same time. It just make windows better!!!

    Here is the links:

    Comparison of two windows: img23.imageshack.us/…/ribboncompareplus.jpg

    Concept alone: img88.imageshack.us/…/ribbon003extendedalone.jpg

  103. @c_barth who asks: "Is there some way that users outside of Microsoft can query this telemetry data? It seems like it would be very useful for many other application development scenarios."  Check out http://winqual.microsoft.com   Today we share application quality data with developers and partners about their applications which has had a tremendously positive impact on the overall Windows experience.

  104. Please consider below says:

    http://www.moquo.com.ar/…/Windows8ExplorerConcept1.1.jpg

    Can you guys consider this great design a poster showed on the "metro vs aero" blog?

    Please consider this windows explorer design

  105. @Morten where did we say that?

  106. Sweet!! media center + 8 !! Awesome news, thanks!!

  107. alan says:

    Just a request, I would love to see support for playing internet radio added to Media Center, I see this as an iTunes competitior and iTunes supports internet radio natively.

  108. alan says:

    Just a request, I would love to see support for playing internet radio added to Media Center, I see this as an iTunes competitior and iTunes supports internet radio natively.

  109. @please Consider Below.

    you've spammed that link repeatedly, everyone has seen it. relax dude.

    plus it's ugly as ***, Cloud7 is considerably more user friendly and intuitive of that, ask Steven Sfinosky (sorry if i butcher your name.)

  110. Alireza Noori says:

    I speak for myself. I don't want no Ribbon or less commands in it. I just want a new look (and especially an optional dark one) for my new Windows. I want it as a theme to be able to switch between Aero and the new look (sth like Metro).

    + A queue built into the copy process to avoid installing TeraCopy. I just like the copy dialog of Windows. It's beautiful.

  111. I can't get this.

    Windows 7  = fast, reliable system with powerful search and best explorer ever.

    Windows 8 = fast, reliable system with powerful search (??? hope so) and OFFICE ribbon, Metro Ui from Windows phone (fail). Why? I don't get it. Why toss these failed elements down out throats? If you guys had no ideas, should just deliver a Windows 7 2.0 with faster search, faster boot time, some updates in security AND ….

    Consistency in its UI?????

    Windows 7 has only one fail

    its only flaw is its UI…. a bunch of MIXED UIs, actually, from Xp, from Windows 96 and the Aero version.

    In fact, we should call the Windows 7 UI a MESS UI.

    And now… what you people are trying to do is what Microsoft does best… develops something and abandons it, just like Windows Live, you people do a major version, launch it and then let it root for a whole year or two with no updates.

    You guys developed Windows Xp LUNA, then Aero. Abandoned both, leaving inconsistencies behind. Windows 95 Uis, XPs, all tossed into Windows Vista/7, making the system look ugly — and as if it wasn't enough, even the UI built to Windows 7, like the Control panel, simply don't match the rest of the system.

    So you guys sit around in meetings and think "Oh… ok… we should toss windows phone environment into Windows 8 and they'll love it!"

    Do you even WORK with Windows 7?

    its visuals are completely inconsistent.

    Windows 8 should be about making Windows Vista (which windows 7 is — windows vista 2.0) a ever better release and not a mock up from Windows phones and Office ribbon tossed into it!!!

    This, for me, is a lazy work. If there aint nothing new, don't mess with it.  

  112. Eddie says:

    Not sure I agree about the media center usage, power users opt out of the telementry and are probably the most users of it. Anyway…..You have to merge WMC, WMP and Zune together into one killer app !!! PLEASE

  113. @ mad_win7_user says:

    I think your in the minority here….??? You obviously havent user a Windows phone ???

  114. +2 for Map Network Drive and Powershell discussions about adding them into Explorer.

  115. FED UP says:

    LAZY LAZY LAZY LAZINESS…………..

  116. FED UP says:

    LAZY LAZY LAZY LAZINESS…………..

  117. FED UP says:

    LAZY LAZY LAZY LAZINESS…………..

  118. FED UP says:

    LAZY LAZY LAZY LAZINESS…………..

  119. No @unknow_user. I have used Windows phone — but thanks, no. I don't own one.

    I own an Android powered phone…

    Windows phone…

    If I ask what's a Windows phone to a friend of if they have one, they'll say:

    "Oh, Is it new? Is it cool? Is it better than IPHONE??? or DROID??"

    Please….

    Windows phone is fail, so Metro UI already born as fail. Redmond should know better…

  120. @Steven Sinofsky re: Morten I think what he's saying is that no matter what the community says you guys are already set in your ways and nothing is likely to change based on any feedback given, now this is probably not true as I remember distinctly back on the E7 blog you made a post highlighting changes (albeit small ones) you had made based on feedback.

    He's sort of correct as well but then again we are a small group of people in the grand scheme of things so obviously some discretion has to be shown.

  121. @Mad_win_7_user

    you think Windows Phone started Metro UI?

    Xbox has had it since leate '08

    Zune had it in '06 (both of which i have personally owned and used regularly.)

    Media Center has Metro aswell.

    you're mistaking Live Tiles for Metro.

  122. TheGameHHH says:

    mad_win7_user is right about the consistency part. Right now it seems Windows 8 will continue the trend with yet another completely different style added. Is it that difficult to re-skin aero with something that feels more in line with metro? You don't need to change the structure of Windows, the location and/or placement of things; just make a consistent experience so when one switches from the new modern metro interface to the desktop mode one still feels in the same place, using the same environment. If you can't do that, at least polish the aero interface and replace all those out of date 90's era icons that still exist in 2011.

  123. Also I want to make a quick point regarding legacy support, it sucks and holds back the OS, can we please move forward? 🙂

  124. what Microsoft Really needs to do, in order to suit everyone, is to develop a plugin system for Explorer, and DWM.

    install a little plugin, and explorer does specifically what you want, how you want. probably based off CSS+HTML5 for ARM support.

  125. Ezequiel says:

    I really like that Internet TV is available in Argentina, I use a lot of Media Center. I would like to see in Windows 8

  126. Win DanielM2

    i've been asking this for years, and as soon as i work at Microsoft, i will reinvent the OS, the way it needs to be done in order to survive long term.

  127. @BumbleBritches57 Ok, then. Add : Metro UI (WITH tiles)  

    tiles: another name for poor design. Uni dimensional poor design.

  128. Hugo Sena says:

    I totally agree with the guy who said that media player should work as media center. Why do we need two softwares doing the same thing?

    Actually I think that windows 8 should come with zune software.

  129. @steven says:

    I also believe that you a dedicated group which hunts out every single dialog boxes, folders, directories, EVERYWHERE and replaces old icons to make the OS look more modern.

  130. @Steven Sinofsky:

    Hi! I'm extremely happy about these posts and this blog but before this blog and by the leaked images I've seen the ribbon in the Windows 8 and after that you came up with a official video. I don't have any problem with that. My problem is with ribbon.

    My father has a netbook with less than 13" monitor and that's too small. Something that made me happy was that you said the ribbon on Windows 8 makes more space even from Windows 7 but I noticed that we can make a little change and after that we have even more space than before.

    Please look at this photo below that I've made it by Office Visio:

    skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx

    You noticed that I'd changed the place of addressbar and search. What do you thank mr. Steven Sinofsky?

    Thanks alot!

    Farhood Kankash

  131. Rick says:

    I have been a Windows Phone user since Day1, so when I hear about Win8 + the Metro UI it starts me thinking about what that means. MS advertised "glance and go," and really, it is true. I used to be "in" my phone more before. Now I am only "in" when I have to be. But I am wondering how that will translate to an office environment, where I must be in my apps for hours a day. It isn't "glance and go" any more, more likely "glance and switch."

    Other than some desktop gadgets, Win7 doesn't give me status. The Outlook task bar icon doesn't say I have 12 unread emails. There are no live tiles telling me who has posted to an email thread. Will we be looking at a new desktop habit of checking our tiles?  Hmmm…

  132. Robert4WPF says:

    @Steven Sinofsky

    Ok, I am confused then.  Why wouldn't the pre-release ship with at least .NET 4?  Please please please clarify the role of .NET/XAML in Windows 8, it is the most important question for developers.  If the pre-release isn't even shipping a .NET runtime, it isn't exactly giving us a warm fuzzy feeling that managed code can play in the new UI.

  133. Gere says:

    "While Sinofsky is clever enough not to say it in the blog post, the feeling I get is that Microsoft now sees the traditional desktop UI as “legacy,” and that’s worrying. It’s worrying because it’s now clear that Microsoft can’t Metro-fy things like Windows Explorer and is instead relying on the using a ribbon UI. Problem with the ribbon is that it’s hardly touch-friendly."

    http://www.zdnet.com/…/14529

    CONCLUSION: EVERYONE HATES THE RIBBON.

  134. @Dany Rodier says:

    Yes they are going to stream it I believe. I just hope it can be watched after the conference is over.

  135. Logan del Sol says:

    Please drop Aero. It was good for a time, but it's lost some of it's luster.

    Legacy applications are a pain, but they are important.

    To fit more with applications like Zune (i.e. Metro style, but still windowed), wouldn't it be simple enough to apply a near-chromeless Zune-style border box, with the window controls floating over the application window itself (again, refer to Zune). Or perhaps a monochrome title bar with relevant controls.

    The recent posting about file transfers (if I recall correctly) hinted at a Metro start menu in the desktop mode.

    It looked great, although it was obviously mashed against the existing Aero taskbar.

    Visual congruity is not difficult. Supporting legacy apps is swell, and I'm sure the re-skinning will make a handful of apps look a bit ugly. Hell, there are plenty of ugly windows apps as it is.

    I'd rather have a complete move towards Metro with a period of visual mixing within the app windows themselves as opposed to the half-Metro-half-Aero situation you seem to defend, which provides a bit less incentive to redesign existing applications for the new interface. Why bother, some might ask, when you still support their old look and functionality.

    Make a bold push!

  136. Sven K says:

    One minor UI part of Windows, which has not changed in 20 years, is the pink and blue pie chart of the disk space, when you right click a drive and select properties. The pie chart looked already the same in Windows 2.0 with the exact same colors and after every Windows update I wonder why you don't update that chart. It looks so old and outdated. But maybe it's already historical 😉

  137. Stefán Jökull says:

    Good blog. I like where things are heading with Windows 8. I just have one request regarding media. Please have full built in support for the MKV file container 🙂

  138. Emmanuel says:

    CONSISTENCY!!! CONSISTENCY!!! CONSISTENCY!!!

    "Today’s websites (and mobile apps) do not strive for consistency across disparate properties or apps, and the shell of a browser does little to prevent a jarring effect as you switch tabs (or apps)."

    Microsoft please don't shoot yourself in the foot with this one. Websites are totally in a different universe when compared to operating systems, everyone and their mum gets the fact that that no two websites can look similar. On the other hand, operating systems are totally different beast, consistency and cohesion are key in an operating system. Windows doesn't even have a "real UI" and its a shame. Windows needs to have a proper  UI language that developers can conform to.

    Lets take Windows phone 7 for example, despite the fact that Windows phone 7 UI guidelines clearly allows the freedom for any type of UI (Metro or Not), developers are all going for the Metro look, and that is due to the logical and impressive implementation of the Metro design language in the OS itself. Literally every single app realeased for WP7 now conforms to the Metro UI.

    Another example is Mac OSX, the ugliest app on Windows has an equivalent on Mac OSX that is not just 100 times beautiful and more appealing, but also consistent and intact as well, this is what needs to change in Windows, and for me the Metro UI has a great chance of making this happen.

    Please, Microsoft, if you don't nail this one right, I think we would have another Vista on our hands, and by this time in the next two years we would be talking about the next iteration of Windows to remedy the faults of Windows 8. Am very optimistic and positive that things go the right way with Windows 8, hopefully in the end we would all have something to cheer about.

    Cheers,

    Emmanuel

  139. @Robert4WPF — we're talking about the old version, that's all.

  140. @Robert4WPF – we're talking about the old version, that's all.  No conspiracy or anything.

  141. Windowsfan says:

    @Gere

    Everyone hates the ribbon? guess you didn't look at the comments. Most of the commenters actually PRAISE the ribbon, especially for touch control.

  142. @ Steven Sinofsky

    I know that I am one of a billion users, small fry.

    But Mr. Sinofsky please tell me why the windows 8 posted photos user in the system tray near the clock? Can this be removed?

  143. war59312 says:

    For the love of God please remove the stupid Focus Rectangle. Google it a bit to see what I am talking about.

    So annoying!

  144. Bryan S. says:

    I love Metro Windows, and I love the ribbon. I'm not sure what other people are so upset over. Every time I see a completely computer naieve person use a ribbon they never have any trouble completing even the most complicated tasks. That's a great thing for the majority of the user base.

    However, the current API for creating ribbons is very complicated and confusing. A new simple API would be nice.

  145. @Emmanuel: I wouldn't write it better:) Especially the paragraph abou WP7.

    Also, after watching video posted above (http://www.youtube.com/watch), I'm much more confident that guys are working on redesigning the UX. Or if not, and they threw away all that work we can see there, they are the stupidiest people on the face of the planet and should be locked in Arkham Asylum. Because although it looks terrible in the video, as it's work in progress, it's the great promise of awesomeness I expected from windows 8. Minimized ribbon looks and works really well and I expect it to be polished and restyled, after that i look forward to use it. But please consider window control as are in Zune (or Steam, which is, by the way, an example of how good design can inspire other developers to adopt it – it clearly learns from Metro design language).

    Please show us some images of parts of the system that was already restyled and tell us "this is the way, we're going". I think it would shut up a lot of complaints here.

    Thanks and keep up the good work.

  146. Xtreem0 says:

    @ war59312

    It is not nearly as bad as it was before. Though if you hate it with a passion you can always remove it.

    http://www.howinthetech.com/pretty-up-windows-by-removing-the-focus-rectangle

    Cheers

  147. EdgarsJ says:

    Could you please fix Internet Time Synchronization?

    Instead of using time.windows.com (which often is overloaded or just plain doesn't work) you could make a system where computer would randomly (or based on location) assign one of the different available time servers.

  148. RichardC says:

    The Explorer ribbon is a small part of a much larger problem, and is merely the straw that broke the camels back.  Since Windows XP you have been focusing on: 1) making things easier for novice users; and 2) trying to make the operating system look more visually appealing.  These are worthwhile gaols, but the problem is that you're doing so at the expense of productivity and usability for more experienced users.

    You're hiding away useful functionality to stop it confusing novice users, but at the same time making it take more clicks to access.  You're dumbing down features such as the search facility (I want a search that has all the options of the XP search, not just a file name) which reduces its usefulness.  You're adding thick transparent window frames and other visual features that waste important desktop real-estate.  You're complicating simple processes such as copying/overwriting files to try and stop novice users making a mistake, but at the same time making this slower for people who know what they're doing and are deliberately overwriting files.

    The Windows 7 and Office 2007/2010 user experience is a productivity nightmare, and Windows 8 seems to be extending that further with massive buttons to do simple tasks that are better done with keyboard shortcuts or context menus, and a Start menu that thus far appears to have no functionality at all.  In general, your decision to focus entirely on novice users is reducing the productivity of advanced users and making using Windows a nightmare to use.

    The simple solution is to create two desktop environments; one for novice users and one for experienced users.  The environment targeted at experienced users should be based around the Visual Studio 2010 interface since it offers rapid access to functionality, efficiently uses screen space and has a pleasing, modern look.  Alternatively, you push Metro as the user interface for novices and reverse the dumbing down of the standard desktop by making it highly customisable, thus allowing advanced users to configure it to their preferences and work they way they want to work, instead of being forced to work in a way that you dictate.

    Sadly, Microsoft seems to despise its user base, never listens to feedback and provides very limited (if any) options for customisation.  It took five years for you to provide an option to fix the tab order in Visual Studio and return it to the "new tabs on the right" order user by every other application in existence.  When such a simple setting takes two version to add I have little hope that you'll do anything to cater for people who are dissatisfied with the dumbing down of the Windows interface.  Ultimately it looks like I'll have to rewrite all my MFC code in QT and switch to Xfce on Linux.

  149. Mannar K says:

    You guys should seriously have a facebook page. Bing team is doing an amazing job, I understand you could have an over kill of comments.

    But for such a radical UI change, I guess engaging and educating end users will be a great start. What better way than have a Facebook page for this Blog.

    Keep the cool stuff coming! 🙂

    -Mannar

  150. xpclient says:

    There are 2 problems with the Ribbon that Microsoft isn't addressing well enough. One is that it's too tall and no matter what tweaks you do to increase vertical height such as moving the details pane to the right and removing the header for Libraries, it takes too much vertical height. Do you think people always use Explorer window maximized. In a non-maximized Explorer window, the Ribbon takes far too much vertical space. Minimizing it increases the number of clicks. Can you make it use smaller icons like 24 x 24 instead of the current 32 x 32. And maybe an option hide the button labels (like Windows XP's toolbar had) and show the text labels in tooltips? Another problem is that compared to a simple toolbar or command bar which exposes all the commands at a time 1-click away, the Ribbon organizes commands into tabs, which means 1 additional click to switch to a tab. It takes away the convenience of 1-click access which a toolbar has.

    I don't want too much minimalism or dumbing down in Windows. I want "advanced" features to remain. If you MUST take out features, here's an idea: take them out in the lower editions but keep them in the Professional, Enterprise and Ultimate editions. But Windows 8 Ultimate must be a perfect superset of Windows 7 Ultimate, not "mostly", a superset.

    Another thing I request: Can you do a better job of documenting all the features you remove? Users have to "discover" that a certain feature is gone and there is no documentation of it anywhere. The Office team does a fabulous job of this. See here: technet.microsoft.com/…/cc178954.aspx (What's New, What's Changed, What's Removed). Comparitively, MSDN documentation of removed features in Windows 7 is too scarce.

  151. dongerdo says:

    Besides all the talk about the upcoming UI changes, I just want to address the Media Center bit from a user perspective.

    I think one of the reasons for the rather seldom usage of this feature is because it is plainly inconvinient at times.

    Just my two major gripes (there are more but these are my biggies)

    First the support for different subtitle/audio streams in video files is simply lacking. While there is no issue in changing audio tracks and subtitles with DVD media, doing the same with video files is only possible with half-decent homebrown plugins. This HAS to be basic functionality in a media center (And this is relevant for millions of users dependent on subs and multiple audio tracks).

    Second, the management of audio devices is appalling for a HTPC setting: Most AV Receivers are still connected by S/PDIF and therefore users most likely want to output the audio of their DVDs, video files and so forth specifically to this output (in that case ideally as pass-through).

    The problem is that there is only one centrally defined audio output possible with WMC7. This means either you have to put up with the fact that ALL sound, including plain TV, will be put out of the digital output (requiring a running AV receiver for even watching the news for only 5 min in the morning – something no user I have EVER met actually wants or accepts) or that you have to manually change the required audio output in the system settings for each application. Especially the latter is completly unacceptable in a family environment.

    Either this has to be approached on a codec level (like e.g. MediPortal does it) or you guys find one other clever way to do it inside the GUI, but this has to be solved.

    WMC is a very nice piece of software, don't get me wrong. But if you guys pitch it as beeing in the same league as dedicated home theatre equipment, it has to measure itself against the usability of the latter. And there, sadly, it falls short.    

  152. Ryan LM says:

    @Sinofsky

    >> The unique element of Windows has always been the “open market” approach to interface.

    That is not unique to Windows, have you seen the disaster of Android UI? or Linux? The only unique thing out there is that Apple managed to have platform consistency on all three/four screens.

    >> We embraced how people used and adapted the Windows APIs to bring unique experiences to market.

    That should read "We didn’t provide the right tools or guidelines to developers that enable them to create apps that feel at home on the platform, this lead to a lot of unique and ugly experiences – We are going to fix this in Windows 8."

    >> "Within any context there really isn’t a single “desktop” experience."

    Yeah, we know.  Unless you buy a mac. (Note – I don't want to, I want windows to be better).  It is just important to call out that A) It has been done, and B) People seem to like it.

    At this point you are thinking that "Yeah, but so many more people buy windows PCs".  This is true, kinda.  Here is the difference.  Everyone who uses a Mac wants to, they made that choice.  That cannot be said for everyone who uses a PC, most just go to work, and there it is.

    Anecdote:  At the MOA in MN, the Apple store is directly across from the MS Store.  Guess which has more people?  

    Sidebar: Seriously, I am not a mac person, nor do I want to switch.  When you make a statement that is only true on windows and kinda claim that it cannot be done – what is a guy supposed to do?

    >> "Certainly some have been critical in the past that “Aero” did not achieve a uniformity or consistency, even within Windows."

    Me – You have no excuse, if you fail miserably at it – how does anyone else have a chance?  Today developers have to reinvent what you do to stay relevant because they are forced to – as you said:

    >> because so many third-party products tend to mimic the Windows experience

    Why should they have to mimic? Why not give them to tools where conformity is simple the easy choice.  Take a minute and use XCode and Interface Builder.  It only takes about 10 seconds to realize how Apple got their consistency, a new app just looks like an Apple app.  People are lazy, they don’t want to make a ribbon that looks only have as good as the one in office, but for some reason – you force them to.

    >> Today’s websites (and mobile apps) do not strive for consistency across disparate properties or apps.

    Websites do not, but… you may not have noticed but the iPhone's App Store kinda tipped the Web 2.0 world on its head.  Apple ENFORCES application consistency or you are not in the store.  People apparently like it.

    >> Media Center 6%

    This does not surprise me.  It is a great app, I use it as my TV with the Ceton 4 tuner cable card, it is a great experience.  However, windows ships with Media Player & Media Center.  I also have a Windows Phone and so I have Zune.  So, now I have 3 media players to choose from.  Only a fool would use media player.  But – again, you have 3 media players you ship…  

    Here is the best part, I would expect a "Media Center" to play media. Snap! There is a one in ten chance that if you download some media it will not work in media center.  Missing some audio codec for surround sound, missing the right video codec.  Or it will play, and is choppy or blocky.  If you use an Xbox extender, then you might as well just give up.

    I will personally send you a box of cookies (they are great, let me know if you have a nut allergy) if you allow Media Center to play – Media!  Just make it play ANYTHING, let it be known that windows will play anything, at all – would almost make that “plays for sure” thing mean something.  No more codec packs that destroy your system, odd logos popping up before videos play letting you know it took some hacker to play back a movie on windows.  You will get users!

    Seriously – on a general note, why not just make windows play anything, display any picture format, whatever.  (kinda like Preview on the mac.. I kid!)

    Anyway, back to Media.  You have a chance here to do something great.  Make media more integrated in the platform.  WP7 does a great job, well mango anyway, with integrating it into the lock screen/desktop.  But, it feels part of the system, even down to the media controls.

    >> SKUs

    I have no faith you will get this right.  What is right? 1 SKU (customizable for enterprises to block out the cool stuff). $49 for a home user/ $149/whole house, $99 for a corporate install (before bulk discounts).  As an IT person I would really love not to care if I got the right version of windows.

  153. Bryan says:

    Feedback on Media Center and why its usage stats could be low. Bit of background first:

    1. Cable TV and DVR (using 4 tuner Ceton card)and DVD/Blue Ray playback. Use of Total Media Theater to play BD, DVD-FAB to rip movies to the 8TB Raid 5 NAS, and My-Movies as the movie database/meta-data solution, all integrated into media center. (Well, sort of integrated).

    2. Xbox360 in 2 other rooms acting as extenders.

    3. Network is Cat6 and Wireless N

    4. 55" tv running HDMI in living room, 44" on the extenders in the other rooms.

    5. DVD and bluerays are transcoded from the WMC in the living room so video can be consumed in the other rooms.

    Overall its a great system but Microsoft could do much better in the implementation and tools so the average consumer sees a need to have this.

    1. Support Blue Ray playback in WMC natively without needing a third party add-on. Given most everyone has a BD player on a home theater, this makes sense to build natively into the system.

    2. Although I wouldnt expect MS to include a ripping software due to how "friendly" the MPAA is, it would be worth a try if you want to get a larger base of users.

    3.Xbox 360's running as extenders will support a very limited video format compared to what is in WMC 7. Net result is for those who want as true quality of video on the WMC system, they either transcode to the extenders or they need to have 2 copies of the movies – a great quality format to view in the living room and a lower quality version to play on the extenders. Support VOB, M2TS,MKV and all other video formats in the 360 that WMC does or will in the future.

    4. xbox 360's must be given the ability to access network attched storage devices through the WMC box. This took custom scripting, reg edits, adding users and adjusting folder/user security privilages to make this work properly. Again, the technical user may be willing to go through this but this is not a seemless process for the average joe and will limit the success of future WMC.

    5. application integration to Media Center – I'm guessing this is in the works with an app-store but any plugins to WMC need to be vetted by Microsoft for quality and need to be made easily available from a central application hub instead of scouring the internet for a hopefully it works and does the trick.

    6. Internet TV – Being honest that the Internet TV option in WMC is a waste. unless content providers are willing to license this to Microsoft and stream it to Media Center users, this is just an advertising and bucket of 3-4 minute video clip of behind the scenes stuff. Yes there's some real content but its so limited its just not worth the time to view the content. There needs to be a LOT more content here and could lead to a revenue stream for Microsoft if you were to build this into an on-demand purchase mechanism. almost like what the xbox 360 has in it.

    7.. MUCH MUCH better documentation for the average user. the MS WMC website does very little to help the user figure out how to do all of this. Step-by-step instructions with images/screenshots would be helpful but better yet is simplifying the setup in Media Center itself.

    So a little more than a few ideas – the issue I see with WMC is that it could be great if it was updated to support current technology and not what was available back in the Windows XP/2000 days. My wife would tell you I spend too much time on maintaining and setting up this machine but it solves problems that the standard cable companies can't deliver on today, such as multiple DVR's on a single device,TV distribution and dvd/blueray to other devices in the house as just a few examples.  

    I'm actually suprised that 6% of users actually open WMC based on how difficult this system was to fine tune to where I have it today. Make it simple, make it easy to configure, add some features and improve other features and you could have a winner here along with a new revenue stream (the on demand stuff). I won't say its an iTunes killer but its something to think about for future business models

    Bryan from Washington State

  154. Is it me or all commenters here are a bunch of Microsoft fan boys??? The team is getting feedback from people who actually LOVE Microsoft and will praise anything they're putting out.

    After doing some major improvements with Aero and making windows look good (despite obvious inconsistencies from previous OS still in Windows 7) now they wanna insert Metro in the bunch?

    I looked at the Metro UI video again. That interface… I can't even call that interface. Tiles??

    no frames? uni dimensional icons? uni colored tiles? a bunch of HUGE fonts around?

    and you call that evolution? "AWESOOOOOOOOME UI??"

    for me is drop down ugly as it can get, and POOR!

    In an era where 3D is everywhere, they wanna deliver Metro with such interface — all flat as a paper LOL

    I guess they should get even more "AWESOOOMMME" and go forward to a UNI color too.

    Would be even funnier of a fail!

    Blerg.

  155. raymond says:

    first off I'm so happy to know media center will be in windows 8 it is beautiful. Zune HD ui reminds me of it and  is also very beautiful. Hopefully you guys make more ZUNE players and make the UI even better although besides going back to the main page being an issue sometimes, I love how typographic based the Zune HD ui is.

    The metro interface is nice however it needs to be chrome. On a desktop the flatness doesn't really work. It would be illegible. To be honest that is part of the problem with the phone especially in tabs like pictures where the typography is hard to see against the background because the typeface doesn't have shadows, shading, glow, outline, dimension basically anything that makes it chrome. It's nice but a lot of times hard to read. Which is an issue on the desktop especially. The good thing about desktops is that it usually let's you customize, which would be super difficult seeing as metro on the phone is generally not all that custom-friendly save for the accent color and choice between black and white for background. This would not work in a desktop environment especially for things like buttons or windows where the flatness would look too bland. Just as the internet explorer 9 incorporates metro the buttons for the most part aren't that flat and that makes things easier to adjust to and look at. The differentiation between hover/pressed/activated state is much more obvious or even on something like media player. Whereas when I have seen the latest flatest metro used in programs such zune software it makes the user-friendliness and usability an issue. I can grasp how to use it but it is not as clear as something like media player. The metro on the start screen is extremely bland and boring. It just looks like squares on a screen. The chrome would help it be a bit more alive. Aero is only old in the sense that it has been in vista  which is now 4 years old. Aero just looks boring but metro itself needs some work if it is used to replace aero. The thing about the desktop is that it still needs to look polished and windows should still have some dimension. The reason why on windows phone the flatness of the metro works is because there is a serious lack of customization. So against something like a solid color background the typography and content shows through. Also you have to realize on the phone things are also much more simple. On the desktop things are complicated. The flatness will be hard to use with a mouse and even with fingers, especially if the user has customization. Plus with all the windows and other things going on the flatness will make typography and buttons and all the goodness hard to look at. Also the flatness will not be as beautiful to users. The zune software is a good example. What works is that the window itself doesn't open maximized. there is a full screen mode. Indication of resizing. What it lacks is user-friendliness and usability. Some simple things I wanted to do that should be easy was hard for me to understand which isn't the case for something like media player. The flatness of the buttons also made it difficult for me against background and unlike media player the over-simplification made it hard for me to see if I was touching the right button or know if I was hovering over it or pressing it. The settings part is simple but the scroll bars are too flat and somewhat difficult to look at. The buttons however although simple are much better that if you'd used the phone buttons which are jarringly sharp and square also flat. These are round but not too much like the aero's windows, if you want to go a bit sharper the tabs in the library that say play burn and sync are nice that don't overdue the sharpness of the corners and don't overdo the roundness corners either. The metro brought a good design principle. The ribbon now that I look at it more isn't exactly a super bad idea but unlike metro is not executed as well. You cannot make windows like that. the buttons are all awkward. different sizes. Where in metro sure for the most part it was super flat but at least there was consistency across the design idea.

    Metro also doesn't work as well in icons as aero especially in a desktop. However what it does do is challenge software companies to create a better representation of their brand. As the logo has to be much more simple in metro. This is where the good and bad lies. The company that usually creates a more successful logo has a design that works monochromatic and is simple. However with the emphasis on icons it'll be much more jarring unless all companies are able to create a simple flat Icon that represents them but then the flat one color might be hard to adjust for the average user who has been used to the colorful chrome effects of the modern icons. I know as a person who has seen the evolution of windows from little kid to now There is a part of me that would feel odd if my icons all were white and against a solid background. It would feel boring. Basically a metro that works on the desktop should take cues from aero and be chrome. The design principles that make up metro should be taken into account for sure the spacing the use of grid/layout and typography. But combine the ideas in general for a user interface for a desktop that is chrome and usable and easy for the use as a metro desktop UI. I have seen many users on deviant-art combine the simplicity of metro into a desktop use. Most of them are missing the chrome that is necessary for the desktop or some form of dimension that being said using the metro ui would require a reimagining of the taskbar as well. Out all the version of windows since 95 the one that has most succesfully changed the taskbar and made it more useful is windows 7 before that launching programs was ugly  and required the uglier quicklaunch which was cluttered. The good thing about the new taskbar is you can launch programs and from and maintain from the same place. The design of the new taskbar needs some better design though.

    That being said what needs some work on is windows media player. The old player on windows xp I felt allowed for better control. The UI is simple and I love windows media player UI but going to now playing but now it's in a different view mode and the list doesn't even blend with the black background and you cannot change it. Back then media player was much more fun to use. The update brought a light blue library that doesn't have equalizer and the list is the same color so it doesn't blend with the now playing section. Back then it was just much more user friendly. The Tabs in the library however that aren't super rounded corners like windows in Windows 7 aero are what you should have used for IE 9 the super sharp corners that are square-like in IE9 are ugly. They are too close and not spaced nicely like the windows media player. Hopefully you guys work on windows media player for windows 8 or just update it already. Back then there used to be so many updates.

  156. tN0 says:

    @mad_win_7_user: It seems you have never seen Star Trek – The Next Generation and the interfaces that are used there. Metro is just trying to make this idea of futuristic simplicity a reality.

  157. I look at is as such:

    I am a reseller, sorry mister customer the $2000.00 unit I sold you is not supported anymore. Please go get a cable box from your cable company and pick up a blu ray player while your out… It better be supported in future windows. Maybe everyone posting is the end user and not the person making a living from selling / service and training on the media center.

  158. I think the addition of the ribbon to Explorer is fine, I just think the design and layout is unappealing. Ribbon will make the current Explorer better. I don't use most of the features in explorer because they are hidden in tiny nested menus. Bring the most used and useful features to the top and it will help a lot of non-power users. That being said you can do this while also keeping an attractive design. The demonstrated layout seems cluttered, random and confusing. I would advise you to do something cleaner, but by all means keep the ribbon, it is a helpful idea.

    Personally I'm hoping that Windows 8 won't require me to even use the Desktop interface much. I hope you will do such a good job with the tablet interface that the other one rarely ever needs to be seen again. (Kinda like DOS is on Windows now).

  159. superpc says:

    i'm glad that windows 8 will still have WMC. but can you make WMC a true environment? you give a full developer support for the new metro interface, can't you do the same with WMC? right now independent third party WMC plug-in for windows 7 is a mess. unstable, buggy and lack coherence with the rest of WMC look and feel. i've made people that never uses WMC hooked on WMC after only a couple of minutes showing them what WMC is capable of. even people that only plays internal movie library. honestly it's one of the best feature of WMC 7. you just need to advertise it more (or are you like steve jobs that said apple tv is just a hobby?). WMC has been around for a long time, and it's sad that now metro is more important.

  160. David says:

    More integration with skydrive, as dropbox.

    less start time

    native security essentials

    good work, I like it

  161. Jeff says:

    I appreciate the sense that computing can be minimalistic but also that we can customise our preferred view with a ribbon design – far better than an authoritarian OS that prescribes how I should work.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch

  162. I think it is a mistake to include the 'old' Windows Media Center Software 'as is'.

    IMO Microsoft should really be looking to streamline Windows 8 by unifying Windows Media Center/Zune/Windows Media Player in to the more recently revealed 'metro syled' Xbox 360 Media interface (which is more in sync with the Windows 8 Metro UI). This will give it greater consistency/functionality/simplicity/usage across all Microsoft products.

    The new Xbox 360 UI with Tuner support (Live TV & Guide) for Media Consumption on Win8 would definately turn out to be a much greater hit than Windows Media Center (and I am a big Media Center Fan). Include both in the beta and many will see that the updated 360 'Metro UI' looks/feels and functions much bettter on the PC/Tablet/Notebook.

  163. Also, will Windows 8 include the option of the Xbox 360 Avatar for the log-in screen?

  164. Also, will Windows 8 include the option of the Xbox 360 Avatar for the log-in screen?

  165. xpclient says:

    I find it disappointing that the pre-release version of Windows 8 that we will be getting won't be the Ultimate edition with all the bits included. Is there a reason why this is being done? Previously with the Windows 7 pre-beta and betas (and Longhorn betas), the public test version was always the "Ultimate" SKU.

  166. @tN0, they should bring back MS-DOS, then. it was simple and wasn't ugly.

    Want anything more than that?

    A plain black window and commands.

    I see major fails with that Metro interface.

    They are being mislead by this whole Tablet and Apple craziness.

    But what scared me the most is how "brave" they are.

    He says he's gotta please everyone….In fact, no they don't need to.

    i see lots of stuff around in Windows 7, on superbar, on menus.

    Things that bring back the old menu bars, the old task bar.

    Why not stick with the new????

    they wanna bring ON the new metro UI but keep ALL STUFF from 95 till here too.

    This seems like a big MESS to me, a even bigger one.

    Take sides!

    Also, when it's about WORKING, everybody sits and uses an input device i.e. keyboard

    MIcrosoft should get serious, because the market it's still about pcs and laptops..

  167. @mad_win_7_user: Windows 8 is more of a transitional OS….much like the earlier versions which were a transition from DOS. Once most of the developers switch to the newer developer model(s)…the old style will automatically be phased out.

    I like the way MS is going about it….I just feel the Desktop UI needs a more 'Mtero' feel and look…even if it just means using the newer font.

  168. @xpclient: I've had a good think about this and I think MS not including many of the Media Hub functionalities in the first pre-release is more to do with the unreleased unified Xbox 360 Live Media Hub….that will be included in the new Win8 metro UI.

    Microsoft can not possibliy release the Xbox 360 Media Hub, until it has been rolled out in the autumn to all the 360's out there. The new UI will integrate all their services/apps/functions in to one clean Media Hub (recently revleaed), that will work across all devices pc/phone/tv (console)  with cloud services.

  169. dkd says:

    Awesome stuff guys… Great job!!!

  170. Funny says:

    SkyDrive+Skype = SkypeDrive?

    Would Win8 be supported on brains? (I want to have a clean install OS on my mind)

  171. Guest says:

    @Robert4WPF: .NET 3.5.1 is old, legacy and for backward compatibility only, thus its 'low priority', Win8 will have .NET 4.5 as the default framework built in I believe.

  172. Is it just me, or does the Ribbon interface in Microsoft Office 2010 look more streamlined nd just beautiful compared to the one in Windows explorer shown in this blog a few days ago? I love th Ribbon as it looks in Office, so if we're gonna get the Ribbon in Explorer please make it look as good as it does in Microsoft Word 2010 for example. Thanks and keep the great news coming.

  173. Zunelover says:

    What is the future of merging media player and Zune software?  Zune is basically a better version of the two.   And will WMC functionality be merged into the Zune software?   I imagine Live TV and Xbox and Tiled apps will cover some of this, but I think if you have a default player, Zune should really take over..

  174. @xpclient — That isn't the case.  The first pre-release for Windows 7 ("Developer Preview") did not even have the Windows 7 user interface such as taskbar, let alone dozens of other features that eventually shipped as "Ultimate" (like games for example).

  175. Andrew says:

    I am very worried about how will Media Center be implemented in Windows 8… I have seen many Microsoft utilities I liked being dragged to death by just including them unchanged in new versions so that they look old, ancient and finally being abandoned by users.

    The Metro UI is not only great for touch on small devices (phones, tablets) BUT also for distant-from-user devices (TVs, 10ft UI), like the Xbox 360 paradigm shows! And that is exactly Media Center's territory! So what we all loyal users expect is modernizing MC and integrating it to the Metro UI, which is its' natural space. Actually, you could ditch the MC name and no one would mind, as long as you would have full TV tuner support built in on the start screen and extender functionality…

    Can I dream about Kinect support in Xbox's extender mode? That would be awesome!

    PS. I also want to add to what other people have said that Media Center is hard to discover, especially when you are a novice user (moreover, you wouldn't even need it on most PCs which they are on a desktop 2ft away from you), so that is why you see such statistics… And it's mostly about TV, if you don't have a TV tuner it's a half experience! Add to that the lack of native EPG support on a lot of countries and you can connect the dots… I live in Greece, and it's been an almost hacking experience to use MC's TV as it should have been used! But when people come in to my house and watch my setup they get really excited that I could do all that with only a PC and an Xbox! But when they ask me how to do it for themselves, I tell them it's not that easy to setup! At least we now can have DVB-T native data for the EPG…

  176. @Steven Sinofsky

    When Windows 8 is released, there will be box version of x32 and x64 bit..how about ARM version… Will it be shipped in the box too. In case we have tablets run other OS that still has ARM processor on it so how can we install it in ARM devices???

  177. Nick says:

    I have been using media center since the XP days and love it. I have influenced a handful of people since then to adopt it. I am very excited to here that it will live on, but I do have some suggestions/requests if it's not to late. Blu-ray support, it is ridiculous to have to pay for the hardware and OS and then have to buy a separate piece of software to make it work. Fix the audio issue where you have to set windows to 2 channel and WMC to 7.1 in order to properly here surround sound. Improve the Netflix app, they say MS supports it MS says Netflix supports it, but then no one does. Netflix can output 1080p and 5.1 I'd like to see the WMC Netflix add-on support that. Finally if the sports tab could actually show all sports that are on my channels that would be great. Thanks for all the hard work and the great product.

  178. Mike Lowrey says:

    In reference to the Media Center "compatibility" isn't key.

    What we(as media center fans) need is extensibility but NOT based on the current approach!

    MCML is one of the main reasons why nearly no developers cares for WMC.

    Why not use plain XAML? Then we as developers have tools to develop and knowledge on how to do so!

    WMC together with Windows Embedded could be a great success for Microsoft on the market especially since the added ARM compability, but only if some of the drawbacks(like being bound to english only data from amg for the movie library, having no chance to switch audio channels when using local media files, no  i candy like fanart or just bugs like not loading folder.fpg when playing the second track of an album) are solved!

  179. Danny says:

    Thanks for the update.

    As one who mentioned concerns about 'jarring' transitions, I think much of this comes from a lack of understanding how Windows 8 will really work. For example, in Windows 7, the desktop is what we see the most of the time (with apps on top of course). One common task is to press the start button to get to programs or settings. In WIndows 7, the start menu matches the style and feel of the desktop.

    Forward to Windows 8.

    Based on many of the earlier descriptions, the metro screen was touted as a replacement for the start menu. So my thinking was that every time I hit the start button, which could be quite often, there would be a radical transformation from the traditional Windows look to Metro and then back again. Hence the fear of 'jarring'.

    Since then, I think much of this has been cleared up as we have found out Metro is much, much more than just a start menu replacement. The post about never having to go to the traditional desktop helped with this thinking a lot. So I would not say the problem was being too transparent, but just that we did not have a full enough picture to understand what was really going on here.

    For me, metro is more than a new interface or colors. It's (hopefully) easy installable and (clean!) uninstallable apps, better performance for the long term due to apps not messing with the OS itself (please!) and a lot of other much needed modernizations in Windows.

    I hope this helps with at least one interpretation of 'jarring'. My own fears in this area have been greatly reduced, though this is something that only playing with will give a full picture of how all this will work. I am really looking forward to doing so and have never been as excited about any version of Windows as I am about Windows 8. It is true you will never please everyone. It's impossible. But I think overall you are making some good choices and I look forward to learning even more in the coming days and weeks.

  180. Another question is Photoshop has two versions 32 and 64 bit so ARM may not be able to run x64 Photoshop but how about x32 version?  That's pretty confusing about new ARM architecture and its compatibility with current software…And I also heard future of ARM will be running 64 bit as well and it's even get more complicated. So there may be emulator behind platform?

  181. I think one of the reasons for such a low usage of Windows Media Center is lack of the native blu-ray support. DVD just has too low quality and resolution for today's TVs and even monitors. Streaming and file-based content is sure a good alternative to physical media, but it still has a lower quality compared to blu-ray. Other than that, unlimited high-speed internet connection is not available everywhere. So for those who doesn't have a good internet connection, wants ultimate quality or just prefers physical media blu-ray is the only choice.

    Today, with Windows 7, I have to use third-party players for blu-ray. I have tried many of them, but unfortunately none of them were as good as Windows Media Player in regards to speed, quality and user interface.

    I really hope that you'll include out of the box support for blu-ray and 3D blu-ray in Windows Media Player. I'd pay an extra $150-200 for edition that includes it.

  182. I think one of the reasons for such a low usage of Windows Media Center is lack of the native blu-ray support. DVD just has too low quality and resolution for today's TVs and even monitors. Streaming and file-based content is sure a good alternative to physical media, but it still has a lower quality compared to blu-ray. Other than that, unlimited high-speed internet connection is not available everywhere. So for those who doesn't have a good internet connection, wants ultimate quality or just prefers physical media blu-ray is the only choice.

    Today, with Windows 7, I have to use third-party players for blu-ray. I have tried many of them, but unfortunately none of them were as good as Windows Media Player in regards to speed, quality and user interface.

    I really hope that you'll include out of the box support for blu-ray and 3D blu-ray in Windows Media Player. I'd pay an extra $150-200 for edition that includes it.

  183. xpclient says:

    @Steven, Yes you're right. Now I remember the pre-beta didn't have the taskbar (and other bits). I confused it with the builds that had leaked unofficially prior to that. What about the beta? Will the public audience get a feature complete test build of Windows 8?

  184. BobXD says:

    It would be  cool if windows had an automatic sync with skydrive.

  185. MCCZ says:

    [I got no confirmation for my post, so I am reposting once again its updated version]

    @Cameron Turner: There is no way for individual developers to get signed into winqual. Hope, you have  a solution for this to announce soon.

    @Sinofsky: You are still intentionally bypassing the big picture and essential information about the new Windows. Instead, you are giving us quite unimportant parts (from the ecosystem perspective). Even the Explorer is one of the most used programs in Windows, it is rarely the reason why people buy Windows or choose Windows as the development platform.

    @Sinofsky: The last three posts were much longer than the amount of information inside. If you have written just four informative paragraphs instead it would gave us the same data.

    WMC: Basically, I do not like WMC as it is a bloat-ware.and over-animated. Additionally, it does presume, that there is just a one monitor attached to the computer and that I do not want to do anything else than watching WMC (yes, I might want to work while watching movies or TV). It does not support windows resizing neither. It also record tv into a strange format so the recording is unusable out of the WMC.

    Windows design: From the last big redesign in Vista (and partly in XP), there is almost no support for customization nor there is an official "night" theme (dark background, bright text) as seen on many car navigation software. From Windows Vista, there is a lack of theme palette to be retrieved by the developer – even official Microsoft documentation stated that the "blue" dialog title should be hard-coded as "blue with some other qualities". You are also failing in supporting new Windows APIs in .NET Framework, so that developers must create more or less working libraries themselfs or mimic the behavior themselfs. The .NET wrappers should be available not later then the Windows API itself. Nor native Windows developers could not use new Windows components in some cases, like the "show more/less" button seen in the Task Dialog. One other reason why the mimics are used is that you support that API on new Windows versions only, but the developers need to support even older version of Windows and do not want to create and support two different implementations of the same thing.

    Ribbon: The "File" menu is quite ugly in the Windows implementation. The "Disc Image Tools" ribbon tab looks a bit plundered when there are just two icons. Additionally, the hotkyes from the ribbon are quite length. I do not see a chance to remember and/or effectively use dozens of shortcuts like ALT+AQD.

    Explorer: The program is really hard to use by the keyboard in compare for the "[…] commander" third party tools. I see is as one of the main reasons why Explorer is unusable for power users, not that they must use context menu (whose commands are by the way usually much closer to the mouse pointer than the buttons in the ribbon or in the menu).

    Windows pricing: The prices in EU are quite incomparable to the one in USA. Sometimes, even the number before EUR is bigger than the one before USD (for example, TechNet Pro 375 EUR in EU vs. 349 USD = 245 EUR in USA). If we count exchange rates you are up to twice expensive in EU than in the USA. For sure, this is helping software piracy a lot.

  186. I'm huge fan of Ribbon in Office!!!!

    Office is different application where we use many features, so in this case Ribbon makes perfect sense.

    But in the application like explorer where as per you telemetrics 90% of the people use only just 10% of the features..(Btw for me 99% of time explorer means right click commands or keyboard shortcuts)

    I dont know how usefull it will be to expose these unused feature 🙁

    Any ways I will reserve my opinion till I get some hands on!

  187. Kevin says:

    Great news on Media Center. I use it as my set-top box with great results.

    I can imagine Media Center working really well if the UI is treated correctly at the Tile/Start layer. That way we could control it by touch/gesture/kinect/remote etc.

    I'm convinced that the 6% usage is because Microsoft have roundly failed to market its capabilities. Most poeple that see my media center set up here in the UK want to know how they can bin their set-top boxes like I have. These same people didn't know that Media Center even existed. Unfortunately, there are still enough niggles with Media Center (guide issues resulting in duplicated channels, lack of control of re-scans etc) in addition to day to day maintenance of a Windows 7 PC that make it difficult for non tech savvy users to use this kind of set-up.

    Working with PC manufacturers to deliver a low power, media centered focused, genuinely consumerised device would be successful if associated with good marketing. Media Center is so much better than Apple TV, yet Microsoft don't capitalise on this.

    Personally I'd like to see media indexing and metadata make their way into Media Center for movies and DVDs etc. I shouldn't be reliant on third party plug-ins to have a rich media browsing experience. Perhaps Zune might fit the bill.

    Reliance on streamed/internet TV would also be premature too based on geographical differences in broadband speed. TV tuners will still be the way to go for some time to come here in the UK.

    Sharing the media center experience around the house would be much easier if PCs could be used to extend the experience. Media Player does a valiant job of streaming recorded TV but we shouldn't have to buy an Xbox to stream live TV.

  188. Rene says:

    Dear Steven,

    You say on the topic of switching between Metro and the Desktop: "My perspective is that it is no more or less jarring that switching between any other apps if you embrace diversity or experiences that are built for a specific task or purpose."

    I understand your reasoning, but isn't the desktop "app" also part of the the Windows family branding? Don't you want all of Microsoft's products to look as though they share a common heritage? You said Metro is the future, and you can already see it in Xbox, Phone7 and soon W8. Make Desktop a part of it, I'd say.

    Right now it feels like the easy way out.' If you embrace diversity, you won't mind…'

    I'm not saying, rewrite and design the fundamentals…. Just re-skin it! Make it more flat and borderless, put monochrome icons in place and change the font to match Metro, é Voila! Another happy customer. At least all the people who comment on and read this blog…

    Kind regards,

    René

  189. Valentine says:

    I just wanted to say that I want to see another video done on how to customise the new start menu.

    Since you're getting rid of the old one, power users like me will have to use the new one. I want to know that I can sort through my hundred programs without having to surf through thumbnails. Thanks.

  190. I have been using the "ribbon" in Office 2007/2010.

    I needed some time to get used to it, but right now I couldn't do without it anymore.

    That means that I am really looking forward to see the ribbon implemented in Windows Explorer.

    I still have my doubts about Metro however, but I suppose that it is because I know too little about it per today.

    In other words, I am looking forward to have the first Windows 8 test version under my fingertips.

    It is in any case much to early to shoot at something we actually never saw untill now.

  191. i have complete confidence in microsoft regarding on the design of windows 8 desktop. Keep up the hard work guys.

  192. i have complete confidence in microsoft regarding on the design of windows 8 desktop. Keep up the hard work guys.

  193. sreesiv says:

    First I must appreciate the effort you are putting in to read through, filter and identify topics that have been part of some heated debate and discussions. It is especially commendable, considering the amount of junk, stupid, unconstructive comments users leave on such a good open forum. May be that's one of the perils of being so open and lenient.

    Now to some of the comments I have…

    From part #1 of the post "Reflecting on our first conversations", I was really pleased about the 4 topics you identified, Feedback, Ribbon, Metro and Media Center.

    Feedback

    **************

    The way you have been responding to comments is excellent. I genuinely consider the effort and pain to extract constructive feedbacks from such a big pile of comments and emails to be, world class. I have never seen any other development group having so much patience. May be there is just no one out there in your league or class. Anyway really appreciate the effort and please keep up the excellent quality of dialogue.

    But I think there should be some more clarity on, what exactly is the process involved in identifying and prioritizing the feedback, and most importantly "what's your threshold of classifying a feedback as one, that deserves a 'fix it' action.

    Ribbon

    **********

    Stated the goals, I think the Ribbon is by far the best user interface for achieving it.  

    "We chose the ribbon mechanism, and to those that find that a flawed choice, there isn’t much we can do other than disagree. "  

    That's exactly the way to respond. Kudos. That's the simplest answer one can give, and that settles matters. There will be always a small group constantly complaining and they will keep using the very same product albeit with dissent. No need to worry 🙂

    Metro

    *********

    Agree with you that the detailing the visual styling comes late in the engineering process and I am certain that you guys will do an excellent job at it. In fact I feel that Aero is the most refreshing UI theme out there, better that any other competing product. Metro will augment the experience, I am sure.

    But more than styling, some of the confusion people are having is regarding UI workflow for doing a certain task. The issue on "jarring" feel while switching to classic desktop is a reflection of that. For Windows 7, there is only one theme/style and flow for the UI, and to an extent only one way of doing a particular task. For Windows 8, considering the way you demonstrated the flow, switching back and forth between the Classic Shell and Modern Shell, there will be obviously some doubts on how certain tasks will be done. For example, consider the Control Panel, I am sure that there will be an option to go there and make some changes from the Modern Shell, and there will be some legacy applets available only in the Classic Shell. How seamless these transitions will be, how synchronized these settings will be, how much redundancy will be there in both worlds, these are some of the questions that immediately pops up the mind. I am sure that power users will defenitely don't want to move to a touch friendly UI for making a settings change, and vice versa, a user immersed in the Modern Sheel would not want to go to an MMC to make his change. This is the kind of UI workflows that you might need to clarify, the UI theming and styling takes less precedence. The same applies to other scnerious like doing a policy change, seeing the event logs, using the Disk Manager etc. May be these flows will be more clear, when users will be able to touch and feel the pre-release bits, as you rightly pointed out. There is always a limit to the amount of information you can convey in words.

    Media Center

    ********************

    Many of the elements of Media Center are now spread across the Modern Shell. That make the Media Center software somewhat redundant, except for the TV and remote control scenarious. But those will also be supplanted by great MoSh apps. The opt-in usage telemetry data for Media Center is also not that great. So was the decision to include it as part of one of the Windows 8 SKUs, a late one?, one that was taken based on the feedback and requests to include it? If that's the case, will it be improved for Windows 8, perhaps revamped as a MoSh/tailored/immersive app? Just eager, that's all :-).

    Anyway I must say, Media Center is a great piece of software and the telemetry data does not reflect that. I definitely feel the marketing push for it was not sufficient.

  194. x-parallel-bf says:

    kind of complicated, but ….. can u guys tell me windOS8 means windOS marriage_with/merger_with windCE ? 😀

  195. reading many updates in windows8 over windows7 but one problem I am presently facing is restriction of partitioning tool into 4 partition only as primary. nowadays, if we buy a win7 pre-installed laptop then we have two partitions with no use of users.  100-200 MB for system reserved, 25-30 GB for OEM win7 reserved partition (hidden) so only two primary partitions can be created by windows7 for users use.

    I wish if microsoft should increase the creation of primary partition to 6 or more then it would be great advantage to all users as these days 1 TB or 750 GB HDD are common to use. So  having these big size HDD into two partitions only is really hard to take.

    thanks.

  196. DanglingPointer says:

    @parallel-x-bf, I guess they will continue building windowsCE for low end (or low energy consuming) devices (even more sensitive than smartphones!) … and concurrently support the .net micro-framework..

    — HAIL MICROSOFT !!

    P.S. A multi-lingual spellchecker is worth introducing in Windows8 as an OS service, so IE, Notepad, Wordpad and 3rd party apps can take advantage of this great service.

  197. hashan says:

    Features I want:

    1) Cool Metro UI using nothing but HTML, CSS, JS

    2) Fast startup times

    3) You can control ui using XBOX Controller

    4) Read PDF's (and hopefully loads of other formats)

    5) Create ISO's and VHD's

    6) Watch MKV's, VOB's and other video container files

    7) Blu-ray Support

    8) Windows Live Wave 5 support

    9) PlayTo built into Windows Media Player and Internet Explorer when playing HTML Video

    10) PlayTo Screen Mirroring, a competitor to Air Play Screen Mirroring

    11) Lock Screen with push notifications

    12) Unified Address Book with contacts from Facebook, Windows Live, Yahoo, etc

    13) Sand-boxing

    14) RAW Support

  198. Barcaz says:

    @Steven Sinofsky

    Hi in the arm versions of Windows 8 can be putted an "emulator" that can start the applications exe used in the 32 and 64bit system (so for the common processors)???It will be very useful even if you lose a little performance

    Also in wmp can be useful a synchronization tool of audio/video

  199. JohannesB says:

    @Steven "they are essentially the same product and all of the management and playback code is shared between them.  They are different user interfaces on top of the same data, with the user interfaces tuned for different scenarios.  You wouldn't organize your music collection with remote in front of a tv nor would you be all that comfortable watching full length movies all the time with a laptop."

    I'm sorry but I don't really agree with you here Steven. Why wouldn't you want to organize your music collection using a remote/Kinect/touch/keyboard/mouse in front of a TV? Wouldn't the Metro user interface make all of this easy?

    I also don't agree that people are not comfortable watching full length movies with a laptop. Could you look up the telemetrics to support this? I know some people even use tablets or phones.

    As you said, Windows Media Player and Media Center are essentially the same product already. I really agree with other comments that you should try and combine these two into one application that handles it all.

  200. Quppa says:

    > We’ll continue to look at this area of course, but want to avoid “churn” at a stylistic level because so many third-party products tend to mimic the Windows experience without utilizing the built-in metrics and system settings to obtain the palette (so things can look awkwardly different).

    There are several reasons for this, some of which Microsoft can help remedy.

    One is that it can be much harder to use built-in metrics than it should be: as a simple example, there is no way in WPF to find out what the style of 'main instruction' text (as in a TaskDialog) should be without delving into the Win32 API (blog.quppa.net/…/windows-theme-fonts). Who's going to bother doing that, apart from pedants like me? Putting the default styles on MSDN is not sufficient, since these things change.

    Possibly more significant, however, is the lack of consistency found in Windows (and other Microsoft products). It's hard for developers to look to Microsoft as a role model when, for example, the IE team goes and reimplements TaskDialog from scratch (with numerous mistakes): blogs.msdn.com/…/making-tracking-protection

    For this reason, I hope the Windows Ribbon will have some serious polish applied (in terms of visual consistency with the rest of Windows) before RTM.

    Microsoft can't stop third-party developers from being lazy (or from inventing new UI conventions for their products), but in general the programming experience could be made a lot better for those who do want to provide a consistent experience to their users.

  201. Uninstallation process says:

    I would like to hear something new about installing/uninstalling programs in Windows 8. No matter how hard you will try, Windows is still suffering from very bad uninstallation of apps, which leave behind various files/folders scattered around harddrive and a mess in the registry. This is what i hate on Windows most. I cannot freely try various applications install/uninstall and pick the best one, because it leave OS in such a messy state that it's better to reformat, make clean install and then install prefered tested application of my choice. You have to look at apps like Total Uninstaller and implement the same mechanism. No matter what will user uninstall, Windows 8 should give me 100% guarantee that absolutelly all files will be removed from HDD and absolutelly ALL changes in registry will be undone. If you do this, all registry cleaners will loose their purpose and Windows will become much more stable, reliable and fast and even after years of usage they will be in the same condition like in day 1, right after the installation of OS.

  202. Joe says:

    I would love to see the transition from metro to a legacy control panel applet.  Difficult to pull off without completely confusing the user.  I expect it may be a bit like plaing a computer game and a sys tray notification arrives.

    Also, on Media Center.  From what you said it doesn't sound like this is an immersive app.  Surely it should be, isn't it where the metro style was born?  The different aspects of media center should surely be integrated into Windows 8 maybe as a mode to enable the 10 foot interface.  Isn't this the point of the new immersive apps, so that we can control these apps with gestures using our Kinect running Win 8 embedded on a TV?

  203. A non... says:

    … English speaker

    Ribbon thing summary: It will be released, like it or not. This 2-way comunication is pure charade. Don't come here to tell us what to do. We want people to tell us: "You guys are doing a amazing job, I love you all" You got it?

    No, I don't got it. I don't understand the obstinacy to implement that horrible thing called ribbon in the new Windows Explorer. What is wrong with the current Explorer? Maybe it is that the current command bar  has the wrong commands (like Organize, Burn, or Email)?

    I don't see why Explorer can't be improved by adding to its command bar a bunch of dynamic and useful functionality. The mysteries of Universe…

    Cheers.

  204. jalf says:

    please, don't hide behind the "a vocal minority just hate the ribbon" line.

    It's true, but it also misses the point.

    The problem with those screenshots is not that there's a ribbon, it's that it's a bloody mess of variable sized buttons, menus and drop-down widgets, and that all this visual overhead is being added to support the workflow that your own data shows no one ever uses. It's cluttered and ugly and unnecessary, ribbon or no ribbon.

    Ribbons work in Office because it allowed you to *not* show all 80 buttons and menus at the same time. And now you're trying to use the Ribbon in Explorer while *also* showing every button, menu and option imaginable at the same time.

    And when people laugh at how absurd it looks, you go "yes but you're just a mean ribbon-hater. That doesn't count"

    Way to miss the point.

  205. @A non English Speaker

    Isn't Ribbon + QAT dynamic and functional enough?

    PS:

    If you wish, Win8 Explorer is as slim as Win7 Explorer, but with more dynamics and functionality.

  206. kejserdreng says:

    I have the following criticism for windows 7 which I hope windows 8 corrects. And yes I will compare with MacOsX as it is still better and faster than Windows on the following crucial points.

    1st bootup, is incredibly slow when you have installed many programs on the machine, it's not on MacOsX with the same number of installed programs.

    2nd Why buy Microsoft not Adobe, when they are so awful bad to make single creative software over Apple.

    3rd I'm still feeling that I buy an office machine and not a creative PC to help me in everyday life.

    4th Windows is still complicated and has not learned from Apple or Google. I think Microsoft will lose to Google and Apple if you do not soon look over his shoulder

    But that being said, I think Microsoft is making progress, just not fast enough.

    It is perhaps a harsh criticism, because I know that Microsoft is made up of talented employees

    but take it as a positive criticism

    Thanks for a good Windows 7 product

  207. i hope in new Windows Explorer is allowed to create directory with special name as con, com1… etc

    about ribbon, I think is a very good idea

    about metro UI, i'm scared and curious about it at the same time

    little question: i can switch from explorer to metro in every moment, but, in the new set of API's, is there a way to know if my application is running in metro style or in explorer?

    because if I am using a tablet, maybe I have to change the graphical interface of my application

    last point: in the old version of media center, i found it too heavy; i hope in the newer version it could be less "memory-hungry"

  208. [Advice for video]

    I can understand English,but my native language isn't English.So I hope Microsoft can add subtitles to every video on this blog.(Including those which has been posted.)Thank you.

    -A Win8 Fans

  209. Senzune says:

    Well, seems like Ribbon will take its place, but I'm not yet confident with the design.

    While it's a good thing to get all important buttons visible, it's another thing to make it look organized. The Ribbon does not. Important functions, no matter its telemetry data, should be tied together with a minimalist approach without sacrificing ease of access.

    Cut, Copy, Paste, 3 complementary functions, should just be listed from top to bottom, small, easy, organized. The Paste button as in Word 2010 is enlarged, and even though it might be used much and has the additional menu behind it, it just feels cluttered somehow, like all functions were just scrambled around the floor and dragged randomly to the ribbon. It's not random, obviously, but it feels like it.

    Furthermore, the Office Ribbon does look better than the current Explorer Ribbon in Windows 8, maybe it's an option to build from that organized approach..

  210. @jalf

    Maybe the opinion of this loud angry minority would count a little bit more, if they would give solid arguments and show alternatives that work for the different user groups. Hundreds of "I hate Ribbon" comments aren't very convincing. Why don't you show us your UI approach that delivers dynamics, functionality, customizability and help for newbies like the Ribon UI? I'm interested. And maybe you can convince the Windows Team to adopt your UI approach, if you have one.

    PS: Always keep in mind that you're not forced to use Ribbon, there are also context menus, shortcuts and new Quick Access Toolbar as alternatives. I hope this eases the pain.

  211. This may be a 'double post' sorry! … I have been using Window Blinds for years, going back to XP… for one reason only… roll up windows. It is a feature that i always thought would be eventually added to Windows. It works well with the Ribbon, but would be even more effective with the Metro approach … right clicking on an app is so much more effective than having to continually having to go to the task bar.

  212. Great news, if you guys were to remove media center with just using the new UI that would be ok as long as you dont off cable cabe and give cable card to xbox.  I cant wait to see more on windows 8.  

  213. Stephen Flotd says:

    Honestly I'm dissapointed that Media Center will be in Windows 8. Media players are the one thing in Windows that I can agree is "bloated". Why in the world do we need 3 programs that do practically the same thing? (Media Center, Media Player, Zune). Please, please guys, combine them into one. Not only does 3 separate programs bloat the OS but it also confuses the mess out of people.

  214. jimsing59 says:

    If it's not feature complete, there is no sense testing it in the early stages. I know about marketing but I think we need to test the RC version for a whole year before release unless it is that solid. I am surprised that that Windows8 beta is not available for public testing yet.  Without Media Center means that I will probably have to triple-boot Windows .7, Windows Beta, and Ubuntu

  215. this might sound like a crazy idea but with regards to touch experiences, Kinect apps on the Xbox have really suggested to me that vendors like Netflix and Zune (yes i consider them a separate entity) have nailed the gesture experience. they should consider porting those Kinect experiences to Windows 8 immersive experiences. half the work is done… at least the UI half. they can use Media Center as a template of how that should work, as i believe Media Center to be the first real Metro application. the first "immersive" application. just compare Media Center to the current or even next Xbox Dashboard, and the current Zune app for Xbox. it's the same thing!

    also, a quick question about "Desktop as an app". i've come to the conclusion, and i may be wrong, but if the user will only see the Desktop if they want to by launching it, does that mean we're getting an awesome, powerful, Metro file browser, with a Metro-style-implementation of a ribbon? if so, i'm super excited to see how it turns out. an "immersive" file browser would definitely put a lot of people at ease when it comes to the whole jarring change in experiences thing they're all buzzing about.

  216. X says:

    The big problem with WMC is that it's kinda unstable when using the Xbox as a media extender, wifi streaming isn't the best in the world (it lags a lot when dealing with large files), and there's no support for soft encoded subtitles or formats like MKV. Fixing those issues would make WMC a lot more appealing and save a lot of HDD space for those who want to watch subbed shows (which have to be converted into formats like MP4 to play properly).

  217. Nitusoxide says:

    The biggest problem with WMC is  nobody knows that its there and what it can do. Once people find out, its a no brainer. I LOVE WMC I have helped at least 6 people build HTPC's. They bought the WINDOWS 7 OS just for WMC.

  218. Jay says:

    I can't believe that you'd prefer Media Center over Zune. As far as I'm concerned the Zune software is one of the best things you have ever created. Please do NOT ditch it. Instead, improve it and keep it as the only media manager/player for Windows 8.

    I did try Media Center and honestly could never understand why I would ever need that.

  219. @Stephen Flotd

    i'm sure you don't consider Zune part of Windows 8. Zune will only be on your computer if you have a Windows Phone 7 or a Zune device. that's like saying iTunes bloats Windows. it's only there if you use it.

    and Media Center is NOT Media Player. they serve two separate purposes. Media Center is what you call a 10-foot experience, meaning it was designed to run across your living room, and preferably with a remote control (which is how i do it). Media Player is more of a 3-foot experience, geared towards watch this video, listen to this playlist. a lot of people use Zune like this as well.

    and if by bloat, you're referring to hard drive space… all three of those applications on your machine can't collectively come up to more than 200MB. i'd hardly consider that bloat.

  220. cw-kid says:

    @Jay

    Zune is a 2 foot UI Media Center is a 10 UI for TV screens two totally different things.

  221. Greg says:

    One unified media solution for music, movies, games and apps across all devices – has it not occurred to you that this is what Windows needs – at the moment we just aren’t competing with the more successful iTunes and it is a mish-mash of services – the movies and music library needs significant work too – surely you have the resources and muscle to get all the movie studios and record labels on board? It is depressing to know that you haven’t got it together yet – as much as I like Zune, I don’t think the brand will be successful long term and you are better off making a very well thought out and executed new ‘Windows Media Center’ – WMP, Zune and WMC combined (improved connectivity for Xbox, games and Kinect enabled?)

  222. CW-KID says:

    For anyone who wants to learn / know more about Windows Media Center

    Go to the Windows Experts Community Forum – http://www.thegreenbutton.com

    or http://www.thegreenbutton.tv

    or

    windows.microsoft.com/…/windows-media-center

    CW-KID

    Windows Entertainment and Connected Home MVP

  223. @Greg

    Zune is dead bro…

    Zune HD was Microsoft's last stand against the iPod touch, and they failed miserably.

    that's why, 2 years later,  there still isn't a Zune HD 2.

  224. the space used by the apps dosen't matter. the fact that there are at least two speerate products for the same thing, is what is the bloat.

    i personally wish MS would throw away all of Windows' source code, and design the *** from the groud up. without consideration for legacy support.

    ooh, and make it x64 SSE2 and ARM only.

  225. SatoMew says:

    @AleXandrik: That is part of the user look feature. Alongside the new language bar, they are both per-user system-wide notification area (or system tray) icons that can be enabled or disabled.

    @mad_win_7_user: If most people are a bunch of Microsoft fans, then all you're showing is despise and hate for Microsoft. If you think our approach at the company is bad, then yours is equally bad or worse.

    @BumbleBritches57: The Zune-branded devices may be in the path for deprecation but the rest of the Zune brand and the Zune software surely isn't.

    @Steven:

    -As always, I appreciate your posts on this blog. It sure gives us an insight of what Microsoft is doing behind the scenes and the way the people do their work, particularly in such a massive project like Windows. I was wondering if Microsoft could create an official location dedicated to UX much like the Aero and Windows 7 Taskforces made by fans. It'd be much easier to report on issues and suggestions for improving the UI and the overall UX. What do you think?

    – The Ribbon is a good interface. We want minimalism, sure, but the Ribbon allows us to choose that minimalism or not. However, the Windows Scenic UI should be merged with the main Ribbon UI/Fluent UI from Office, so we could reach a bit more of consistency. An aspect I wasn't sure about was implementing Aero Glass on the tab bar in the Windows Scenic UI but now I'm sure that there are no issues in doing so, so you can have another vote for doing it.

    – Is there any chance you guys could reduce the amount of branding in the name of built-in programs as well as other Microsoft products? It's cumbersome and confusing to look for the programs and applications because a lot of them have brand names like Microsoft and Windows. Please reduce it to certain areas, such as the About boxes and other areas where copyright and trademark information is required.

    @everyone:

    – Microsoft is NOT ditching Aero for Metro. What they are doing is taking an approach of converging Aero to fit with Metro. As an example, Microsoft is replacing the somewhat hated Aero Basic variant of Aero with one that takes the foundation of Metro. It is called Aero Lite. The main Aero is also being updated with squared corners and more to fit in with Metro.

    – Windows Media Player IS STILL present in Windows 8. Just because the leaked builds and screenshots, alongside Microsoft's official information, don't show the icon pinned to the taskbar, it doesn't mean it isn't there. It still is, for now. I would like to see it replaced by an updated and more capable Zune software, though. Zune + Windows Media Center would be nice.

    – Some of the features we want, such as a built-in PDF reader, redesigned language bar, etc. are already implemented. It's good for you to keep requesting them, especially when claims of their inclusion come from rumors and leaks, since it's important to be critical and question the validity of the claims. However, try reading other sites, especially ones that are publicly known to be reliable and valid and you'll see some of your requests have already been fulfilled. Microsoft will talk about them in the mean time, don't worry and have some faith in the company's teams, please!

  226. @various commenters re: telemetry.  Let me quickly address two common themes: sample bias and discoverability.  

    Re: sample bias, we do see sample bias, but it does not appear to be towards novice users.  We see people that use hundreds of apps and a handful of apps. Some people use their PCs all-day every day and others only occasionally. Our biggest bias is towards consumers, since often enterprises choose to disable telemetry. We can partially normalize through indicators by those that do send (i.e. is the PC domain-joined?) but would like to see more.  To those representing enterprise shops around the world that do opt-in to feedback: thank you!  We really value and listen carefully to your telemetry, too.

    Re: discoverability, it is true that items 2 or 3 clicks from the surface will see lower usage vs. top-level items (i.e. Ribbon), which we refer to as the "waterfront real estate" of the user interface. However, we are always trying to optimize this.  Specifically, we look for features that are high use by few users; this can be indexed as the frequency of use per user, divided again by the number of users (f/u^2).  Some features are designed for specific scenarios, so a high index is OK. Other features are "general purpose" and high usage may indicate we need to make them more discoverable.  An example here is "Paste Options" in Office.  In early versions of Office, we saw that those who found "Paste Special" really used it a lot.  Given it's applicability to everyone we decided to invest here and developed the Paste Options feature which has been very popular.  Of course, any change is balanced against legacy: do we stymie existing users by improving discoverability for others?

    It is true that not everything can be measured through telemetry (i.e. user happiness), we rely heavily on other methodologies such as focus groups, customer visits, surveys (and this blog!) to get multiple, balanced views on our customers' needs.

  227. Ryan LM says:

    @Sinofsky

    >> The unique element of Windows has always been the “open market” approach to interface.

    That is not unique to Windows, have you seen the disaster of Android UI? or Linux? The only unique thing out there is that Apple managed to have platform consistency on all three/four screens.

    >> We embraced how people used and adapted the Windows APIs to bring unique experiences to market.

    That should read "We didn’t provide the right tools or guidelines to developers that enable them to create apps that feel at home on the platform, this lead to a lot of unique and ugly experiences – We are going to fix this in Windows 8."

    >> "Within any context there really isn’t a single “desktop” experience."

    Yeah, we know.  Unless you buy a mac. (Note – I don't want to, I want windows to be better).  It is just important to call out that A) It has been done, and B) People seem to like it.

    At this point you are thinking that "Yeah, but so many more people buy windows PCs".  This is true, kinda.  Here is the difference.  Everyone who uses a Mac wants to, they made that choice.  That cannot be said for everyone who uses a PC, most just go to work, and there it is.

    Anecdote:  At the MOA in MN, the Apple store is directly across from the MS Store.  Guess which has more people?  

    Sidebar: Seriously, I am not a mac person, nor do I want to switch.  When you make a statement that is only true on windows and kinda claim that it cannot be done – what is a guy supposed to do?

    >> "Certainly some have been critical in the past that “Aero” did not achieve a uniformity or consistency, even within Windows."

    Me – You have no excuse, if you fail miserably at it – how does anyone else have a chance?  Today developers have to reinvent what you do to stay relevant because they are forced to – as you said:

    >> because so many third-party products tend to mimic the Windows experience

    Why should they have to mimic? Why not give them to tools where conformity is simple the easy choice.  Take a minute and use XCode and Interface Builder.  It only takes about 10 seconds to realize how Apple got their consistency, a new app just looks like an Apple app.  People are lazy, they don’t want to make a ribbon that looks only have as good as the one in office, but for some reason – you force them to.

    >> Today’s websites (and mobile apps) do not strive for consistency across disparate properties or apps.

    Websites do not, but… you may not have noticed but the iPhone's App Store kinda tipped the Web 2.0 world on its head.  Apple ENFORCES application consistency or you are not in the store.  People apparently like it.

    >> Media Center 6%

    This does not surprise me.  It is a great app, I use it as my TV with the Ceton 4 tuner cable card, it is a great experience.  However, windows ships with Media Player & Media Center.  I also have a Windows Phone and so I have Zune.  So, now I have 3 media players to choose from.  Only a fool would use media player.  But – again, you have 3 media players you ship…  

    Here is the best part, I would expect a "Media Center" to play media. Snap! There is a one in ten chance that if you download some media it will not work in media center.  Missing some audio codec for surround sound, missing the right video codec.  Or it will play, and is choppy or blocky.  If you use an Xbox extender, then you might as well just give up.

    I will personally send you a box of cookies (they are great, let me know if you have a nut allergy) if you allow Media Center to play – Media!  Just make it play ANYTHING, let it be known that windows will play anything, at all – would almost make that “plays for sure” thing mean something.  No more codec packs that destroy your system, odd logos popping up before videos play letting you know it took some hacker to play back a movie on windows.  You will get users!

    Seriously – on a general note, why not just make windows play anything, display any picture format, whatever.  (kinda like Preview on the mac.. I kid!)

    Anyway, back to Media.  You have a chance here to do something great.  Make media more integrated in the platform.  WP7 does a great job, well mango anyway, with integrating it into the lock screen/desktop.  But, it feels part of the system, even down to the media controls.

    >> SKUs

    I have no faith you will get this right.  What is right? 1 SKU (customizable for enterprises to block out the cool stuff). $49 for a home user/ $149/whole house, $99 for a corporate install (before bulk discounts).  As an IT person I would really love not to care if I got the right version of windows.

  228. Per says:

    Looking forward to see the Touch interface. I hope it will work great with Windows Media center and my big a.. screen TV 😀

  229. Intergrate Windows media player with Windows media center, so you have a one stop shop so to speak.

  230. Greg says:

    @SatoMew and @everyone – I agree completely with “an official location dedicated to UX much like the Aero and Windows 7 Taskforces made by fans” controlled and organised to highlight mistakes, how can we have faith when you continually demonstrate lack of common sense and taste in so many areas of Windows, I know for a fact that there are a list of over 100 items that a real graphics UI professional just would not allow the product to ship with – some are just against the industry standard rules of professional graphic art! (Taskforces highlighted some of them) but unfortunately you let the programmers sign them off and complacency is there again as in every shipped version of Windows ever! Where to start… I mean there is a large list of icons that I just cannot believe you feel are acceptable to ship in such an important product – some of them in your recent Explorer ribbon – no more little gel buttons and cartoonised icons and orbs please – Windows needs to be a sleek and elegant product that makes us all feel proud.

  231. Solidunit says:

    Please allow the ability in windows 8 to configure your pc as a windows media center extender. It seems like the wmc extender has been abandoned as a hardware platform, and i would prefer just using my pc as one.

  232. Adding more revenue and beating competition using windows side bar and/or bing

    With the new windows 8 coming why don’t you add an advertisement gadget into the operating system (phone, PC or table) not just an add but local and global business (yahoo business directory), nonprofit organisation, government and individual (like linkin) directory on subscription integrated with maps, news streams, announcements, call for help (non profit organization etc). Each directory information leads to the entities already function website or blog etc. creating networks locally an globally to find what u want around you, allowing reviews, certification, comparison etc to help choose the best organisation to buy from, theoretically this will push for a perfect market locally and globally and windows platform has the potential of this including apple.

  233. speaking about Zune, WMP, & Media Center.

    it'd be great if you guys used the standard ID3 features, and imbedded album art instead of placing it next to the mp3, at least Zune 4.7 did that to me a couple months ago, the last time i tried it.

    @Greg, i completely agree. Windows, especially when you start diggin around, looks like a a turd from the 90s. so incredibly embarresing, and I'm amazingly excited for my MacBook Pro to arrive.

  234. Greg says:

    @Steven

    It would be beneficial to allow people who care about Windows to point out the mistakes if you or the team are not able to whilst dealing with such demanding programming takes or overseeing a seemingly small UI element that has been accepted without in depth UI design scrutiny, a good example might be this blog – where the font size was several points too small and the typography needed a tweak, whilst your team who all knew about the blog accepted it (I had zoomed to 150% twice before the change) when there is an issue that can sensibly be agreed requires a change without altering any fundamental principles of the Windows heritage or programming flow then it should be considered either letting us tell you or having the UI team made aware that more care and serious attention to detail is required alongside world class designers – especially when there is already a large list of UI mistakes that can be eliminated or in other words enhancements to be made to this Windows reimagined.

  235. I'm glad to hear that Microsoft is "reimagining" Media Center rather than phasing it out. Media Center was a major reason for my switch from Mac OS to Windows, and for moving my parents off a cable subscription and over to a Media Center over the air solution..

    I will make sure I've opted-in to telemetry collections in the future. 🙂

  236. AS147 says:

    @Solidunit

    "Please allow the ability in windows 8 to configure your pc as a windows media center extender. It seems like the wmc extender has been abandoned as a hardware platform, and i would prefer just using my pc as one."

    What a great idea. YES PLEASE.

    I currently have 2 linksys DMA2200 media extenders. It is probably the best of only a small handful of extenders that were available at the time and as with all the other extenders apart from the XBOX 360 is now discontinued media extender product.

    What happens when my DMA200 box fails? I have an Xbox but that is not an option when all I want is meadia extenders. I would by another laptop if it could act as a true extender rather than using it to remote control a media center PC. The experience is not as good as a true extender.

    Please MS make this happen and you will have sold this household three more PC's as I would put one in all three bedrooms.

  237. dude. Media Extenders are dead, there's nothing you can do aside from move on, the reason most are dead is because of DLNA anyway. so move on to DLNA.

  238. SatoMew says:

    @BumbleBritches57: Briefcase is dead too since XP or Vista. That doesn't mean it was removed already either. They can keep it for legacy but they should update all the UIs related to it, however.

  239. personally, i think briefcase was completely stupid, and THAT RIGHT THERE is why windows is bloated, and buggy. they don't throw ANYTHING away. and THAT is why the HAVE to REWRITE windows FROM SCRATCH.

  240. kejserdreng says:

    I am impressed by MacOSX Lion on virtually all points, but also strangely at ease over Microsoft. Why have they not long ago have taken the good things from Mac OS, such as. the rapid start-up? Why  they are not looking over to the ease usability? And when Windows stops interfering with all sorts of messages that only power users understand?

    Basically, Windows has a single desk, where open applications are handled through the program line in the bottom of the screen.

    Mac OS X, however, possible to use multiple desktops. Here are the active programs placed where it makes most sense, with few movements can switch between windows and programs.

    This feature is HIGHLY addictive and something I miss on the PC again

  241. And, I think MS should build Windows X, on some unix like base, Linus, or one of the BSDs preferably.

    Apple proves you can build a propriety OS with OpenSource as the base.

    And windows x apps wouldn't work without windows, so there is no worry about that.

    And use ZFS as the default fs, on win 8 and x.

  242. Tech boy says:

    what we know already for windows 8

    1. metro UI

    2. improving copy paste delete

    3. new file managment

    4. usb 3.0 support

    5. windows explorer with ribbon

    6. creat iso and vhd files

    7. new media center

    whats are the other new features are we gonna see on windows 8?

  243. Speaking of Media Center, I think its about time Microsoft did something about their abysmal country support. Most content on Media Center is not global and does not support South-East Asian countries like India and Pakistan. If Windows 8 is also to have an App Store, the experience would be irrefutably crippled.

    A truly global company like Microsoft should recognise this and take steps to make sure that the experience in 'less fortunate' countries, when juxtaposed with the US and Europe, is comparable, at least, if not at par.

  244. Well, considering it's a Saturday, don't get your hopes up for any official responses until Monday.

  245. domenicoav says:

    Xbox ?

  246. SatoMew says:

    @Tech boy: Other new features for Windows 8

    – Built-in PDF reader;

    – History Vault;

    – Genuine Center;

    – Language explorer;

    – New language bar with possibility of using the old one;

    – My Look;

    – Aero Lite;

    – WinRT;

    and a lot more, I guess.

  247. @MZZ: The big picture should be clear already. If you read between the lines and connect pieces already publicy stated by MS the picture is simple:

    a.) .NET failed to deliver the building blocks for the ecosystem around windows and its expansion, it also failed in terms of adoption beyond MS Windows. Therefore it failed to establish the "new API" allowing MS to get rid of W32 API.

    b.) The Windows OS family suffered dramatically in the least decade from a "battle" between the goals of .NET and the goals of Windows as an operating system for solutions with a wide adoption.

    In other words, the battle is over, let the game begin …

    So what will come with Windows 8, i assume that:

    a.) MS will establish a new API, a native API not bound to the heavy workload and burden of the .NET framework. The name is already out WinRT (formerly jupiter)

    b.) MS will establish _two_ new UI APIs in addition to the existing Win32 API based UI. This will be the metro style UI around HTML5 and it will be the new DirectUI based on XAML.

    c.) MS will make Javascript the #1 scripting language on the Windows OS.

    d.) C++ and in general native code development will become the way to go.

    Of course the previous is just my view, and it is for sure far from being complete but it makes for many reasons the best sense because:

    a.) MS can now establsih a new API from the Desktop OS, to the Table OS to the Phone OS up into the cloud. We, as a developer, finally can forget about all this confusion between new Win32 API, COM API (DirectWrite, GDIPlus) and managed API such as WPF. Of course, yes that means Silverlight and WPF are "dead" but we can leverage our knowledge as XAML will stay. So this is not dramatically.

    b.) The ecosystem can grow for many reasons, any javascript developer automatically becomes a office automation developers, any windows (reading desktop) developer becomes a web, table, phone, cloud and xbox developers, Objective-C developers can more easily jump to the windows platform (WinRT) because they can leverage their existing C++ knowledge.

    c.) The Windows OS can now move into the world of heterogenous devices and diverse hardware platforms

    In my opinion, if the previous will become real this will be the first time since almost a decade that Windows will have a real chance to fight all these "others" (Android, iOS, Un*x in general).  Good move – but difficult to sell 🙂

  248. @SatoMew

    do you even know what WinRT is?

    it's a Windows that has been stripped down and is used to install aka apply the wim file, aka install windows.  WinRT is the same thing but includes a recovery app. it's been in Windows 7 since inception, probably included in Vista too, but i haven't used Vista since Win 7 Beta 1. lol

    (type "folder" into the search bar on the start menu > click enter > view tab > click show hidden files, folders, and drives > uncheck hide extension > uncheck hide protected operating system files. go to your C: drive, there will be a folder called Recovery, which is a hardlink to the WinRT *.wim file and an *.xml file.)

  249. sorry, mixed up my acronyms. i was thinking of WinRE. please ignore my previous post.

  250. richard1980 says:

    Windows Media Center might actually get some usage if Microsoft would stop thinking "Live TV/DVR software on a PC" and start thinking "LiveTV/DVR software on a set-top-box".  Here's a news flash:  There are approximately 80 million households in the US that have a nice set-top-box that they use for watching or recording live TV.  You need to get that set top box out of the home and replace it with your own set top box.  You aren't going to do that as long as people continue to associate WMC with a PC.  A computer isn't what people want.  Give them a set-top-box.  And stop waiting for some other company to put the puzzle together.  Microsoft needs to do it.  You did it to the video game industry, now do it to the TV industry.

  251. Justin says:

    I forgot my pet Windows request!  

    Any chance we could disable the 'Start Navigate' sound across the board?  I like to frequently change themes and I find the sound jarring.

  252. SatoMew says:

    @BumbleBritches57: It stands for Windows Runtime, or so I believe. The reason I mentioned it is because it is apparently being extended to more areas in Windows but I'll have another read on the threads at MDL then. Thanks for the info provided, though, I didn't know about it. 🙂

  253. SatoMew says:

    @BumbleBritches57: Only read your comment now. Ignore my post as well. Apparently, WinRT (Windows Runtime) is supposed to replace the aging Win32 API, I believe. But as I said, I'll try reading the info on the threads at MDL again to see what was really mentioned about it.

  254. Jim Parsons says:

    Answer me please:

    Why was the Ribbon in Office 2007 (and in 2010 yet) MANDATORY?

    You could have given people the choice to disable it…

    That was a big MISTAKE.

    What mattered to you? I wanted the ribbon, I enabled it, I didn't want it, I disabled it and used the classic Office 2003 interface.

    This way would have been better.

    I really want an answer on this question.

    Thank you.

  255. Dineth says:

    My TV runs Wndows Media Center. I know not a lot of people use it, but it is the BEST tv recording and viewing software I've ever used. Simple clean metro UI, has enough TV functionality, works perfectly. My TV's been running WMC for years. I hope this makes the cut. The small % who uses it absolutely adores it. It's adoption to more TV screens is only hindered by the lack of development support on the platform. I hope that would have changed by the time fullscreen metro apps hit Win8.

  256. SatoMew says:

    @Jim Parsons: You can always search the web for articles on learning about engineering and designing software to better understand why giving users too many choices or even choices at all is not a good practice.

  257. Lee says:

    I am happy that ribbon is added to explorer.

  258. Jim Parsons says:

    @SatoMew: Wrong theory. I would have preferred a choice… so that is wrong  😉

    I stayed with Office 2003 since I had NO choice and I was USED to classic menus.

    What's wrong with being USED to something MICROSOFT themselves got people used to in the previous years?

    I didn't want to change my habits… that's all.

    😉

    Anyway, PC is coming to an end.

    Someone else will dominate, I won't tell who because this is a Microsoft site.

    😉

    (Switch(er) switch(er), nudge nudge) 😀

  259. @SatoMew

    yup, i read about it, and it's apart of Project Jupiter or something, I'm reading about it now.

  260. Ray says:

    xp is way too old and its history now. some people are still complanning about the new changes on windows 8. i think microsoft has done good job so far . i do not wanna see same windows xp on windows 8. i have seen the improvement of windows 8 and i am agree and supporting for windows . the people who complains they can use windows xp and others need to move on.

    Thank you

  261. @Jim Parsons, the Ribbon being optional would have completely ruined the entire idea, the erason it was good was because of the simplicity, BUT would people prefer new simplicity, or old learned simplicity? no, the old way sucked, but people KNEW it, and they would have wasted the tens of millions in devoleping the Ribbon, bro, that was 4 years ago, you need to let go of it man. and move into 2011.

  262. to be completely honest, it'd be considerably easier for MS to rewrite the OS than to try to add new componets to this pile of rotten code dump.

  263. Ray says:

    @bumle

    few tweaks of windows 7?? u serious? what about metro uI? did windows 7 use metro UI? stop complaining and move on buddy.

  264. I'm not unknown about the windows 7 interworkings, a friend and i made this: coderforlife.com/…/win7boot

    it changes the Windows 7 Boot Animation, the same one Microsoft said couldn't be changed and had a bunch of "security" protections and such.

  265. @Jim Parsons — Alex tried to address this type of request specifically in the origingal post:

    >> In a related note, one of the most common requests we get in any redesign is to continue to provide the old user interface along with the new. Sometimes this is suggested as a "transitional" benefit, and other times as a "compatibility mode." We've learned over many product cycles that the work to provide this significantly impacts the evolution of the product. The most immediate challenge is that any new commands added to the ribbon then need to be added in the old UI, even if there is no logical place for them. And of course as the new UI evolves, backward compatibility proves doubly challenging. Each time we change we double the number of "old" experiences we carry forward. Our hope is that those who maintain software understand that these are tradeoffs we make in a thoughtful and deliberate manner, and are not meant to be forceful or painful in any way. We are fully aware of the responsibility that comes from changing an interface used by so many people.

  266. arms says:

    please include zune software to default media player.

  267. Amit says:

    A crazy thought:

    Can windows 8 sit on an iPAD that's a dual boot?

  268. @ SatoMew

    Thanks, that explained =)

  269. JamesOlson says:

    The 6% figure and subsequent 3% figure is misleading.  On a decent % of those machines it is the sole reason for the machine to exist, namely an HTPC.  Where MS has failed is to pursue further integration with content partners such as Vudu & Netflix.  Tactially, Media Center is implemented well enough to be the best all around choice for an HTPC in most cases but the it has been effectively sitting still for 6+ years in a fast moving market place which is a strategic fail, which is something MS has been doing far too much of for the last 8+ years letting Apple and Google take the initiative in too many areas.  MS should be doing so much more to push the envelope in this area given the solid foundation of MC and MS's long record of supporting relatively effective drm to develop more content partnerships and make internet TV much more of a reality.

  270. Peter Stephan says:

    Hi Guys,

    hope this is the right way to do this.  i inquiry is relating to solid state drive support in windows 8.  trying to find out if microsoft intends to enable trim support for solid state drives in raid, at present this support id not available.

    I originally posted this on the forum, but the moderator said i should put it in the windows 8 blog.

  271. David says:

    Great news on media center- I use it every day as my main and only PVR at both ends of the house. 360 extender support is fairly crappy thou – Slow UI, and playback (especially FF RW of H264 etc) is woeful. More stability in this area with complete native codec support would be fantastic.

  272. @BumbleBritches57 — Hey there — you're way off topic and just starting to use this post to have discussions about anything (and many comments have been a bit off color and caught by the automated tools that look for that).  How about keeping comments focused on the topic at hand?

    @JamesOlson — The data would capture this scenario quite fine since we also looked at how long the sessions are.  We don't actually see a very large number of sessions that are longer than a couple of hours (so these machines are not on all the time and don't appear to be dedicated).   I tried to address the streaming content by talking about the strong rise on other tools for looking at that content (IE in particular) that does not correlate with a rise in WMC online content despite the programming like Hulu, Netflix, and others we have done there.  But none of this changes what I said which is our 100% commitment to making sure WMC is in Windows 8 and fully supported.  I included the telemetry merely because so many of the emails I received were of the "everyone I knows uses it" variety and wanted to just use it is a chance to show what the data shows.  We did this a lot during Engineering Windows 7 just to make sure we all can talk about things with teh same data.

  273. Rick rat says:

    I think Media Center should have the METRO UI much like the "tablet" UI shown in the video. It's pretty close to it now, but if it used the same tech for drawing, e.g. xaml or html5/js it would be much easier to create addins for it.

  274. Rich says:

    what about windows media player? whats new on windows media player??

  275. Month ago, there are news that Microsoft and the teams will cut off Dolby Digital  support in Windows 8. Is that true? and if it's true how it's going to impact our experience in Windows 8. I need explanation!!!

  276. Month ago, there are news that Microsoft and the teams will cut off Dolby Digital  support in Windows 8. Is that true? and if it's true how it's going to impact our experience in Windows 8. I need explanation!!!

  277. Maybe in Win8  we will have also support for XBOX Live. that would be awesome. So we have the Ultimate Gamer plattform.

  278. Drewfus says:

    @Cameron Turner "Today we share application quality data with developers and partners about their applications which has had a tremendously positive impact on the overall Windows experience."

    Perhaps if an end user opts-in to CEIP (any context), they should get access to some of that data too. Make it a trade.

  279. Windoz effects says:

    Please make a transparenccy option for paint. That will be good. And make for media center/media player an audio/video converter program and picture converter 😀 That possible it is not good for other companies but who cares? It's make windows more more more better, that is the best Os if these features in it. I'm happy for windows media center will be in windows 8, but test something about it because it doesn't detect HDMI audio and the sound always come from my laptop and not from TV. So… could you make paint a little like paint.net (or photoshop :)? And make media player amazing because I always use it and I hope it is just better than now. Vista's media player 11 was better than 12. Please make an option where I can set up that in small screen mode it's always show status bar and the play buttons. And take for taskbar buttons a line that is in full screen wich I can hold and drag: forward or backward if I want listen music from start before it's finish.

    And I support that idea (wich seem of course):

    – Make into paint transparency background option.

    – Make audio/video converter

    – Make customizable startup screen – or something like in mobile's start screen: I can write for myself welcome text.

    These features aren't big but really important and every people like this. If 20-30% doesn't use it, they still good. So please take in these features id only these in it I will buy it, these important for me.

  280. Aleksandar says:

    Please Microsoft get back Direct Sound3D and HAL for sound such as the windows XP.Sound is horrible in windows 7 and xaudio2.

  281. rellok says:

    Also those of you here who make comments about the future of the .NET, you wrongly put the equal sign between .NET and WPF. MS today does not have another solution for building web applications than ASP.NET. Also you fail to mention that the fastest selling product in Microsoft history is not any version of Windows but SharePoint which is almost 100 % .NET (minus some COM libraries which are sort of legacy)…

  282. SatoMew says:

    @Aleksandar: Please be more specific so Microsoft can help you. First of all, DirectSound and DirectSound3D are mature APIs but are being replaced by XAudio 2. They will NOT come back anymore as they were in XP. And what exactly do you mean by "horrible sound"?

  283. Jim Parsons says:

    Thank you Mr. Steven Sinofsky, but I'm not convinced.

    Someone has done it, so it would have been feasible:

    http://www.addintools.com/index.html

    Classic menu for Office 2007/2010.

    I think classic menus should have remained, I heard many business people that wanted to use Office 2007 the "old" way and they were sad or angry or disappointed…

    Ribbon is good just for the touch screens.

    You can't change a habit with a thing that makes you waste so much time to get used to it…

    Long time users should have been given the classic menus, as well.

    If someone of them wanted to use the ribbon, it would be their choice.

    I don't like the third-party "ribbonized" applications like WinZip 15.5 or others…it's a confusing thing and it's useless…

    It was better in the past.

    The old method was faster and practical.

    I also tried to use WinZip (application that should be way much simpler than Office) intensively to understand the advantages of the Ribbon, but I realized that it was better and faster before.

    Even the easiest programs, with the ribbon they look more difficult to use now…

    There are many tabs, you waste time switching from one tab to another, to find the right command…

    In the past you would immediately find the right button or menu command…

    Thank you.

  284. @Steven

    Do you mean on Win 8? Or like on post?

    Sorry for going off topic.

  285. Octagon says:

    "It is true that not everything can be measured through telemetry (i.e. user happiness)" – bad example. As far as I know, measuring mouse movement and keystroke patterns can identify both the user and her mental condition.

    I understand why people suggest Windows being rewritten from scratch. Win32 is sooooo dumb… Besides, there are lots of tiny accumulated problems.

    For example, I set my Opera to scroll for reading the comments. After a while the screen saver turns on. Of course, the Opera programmers forgot to turn the screen saver off while doing the scrolling. But why they should care about things like that first place?

    Another one. In Aero windows have wider borders so that it is easier to position the mouse at the border and resize the window. But why it is necessary to position the mouse EXACTLY inside the border? Is Windows too dumb to know if there is anything else I may want to position the mouse at in the vicinity?

    Mouse and finger orientated interfaces differ in the exploratory ability of the pointer. I mean only the mouse allows to hover over UI elements to get hints on what they do. (BTW, why I have to point exactly?) Any idea I get on that requires Windows to distinguish between my desire to click when I tough the screen with a finger and my desire to just move the pointer. The only way it can know that is with a mandatory hardware control and I do not see anything like that in Metro.

  286. SatoMew says:

    @Jim Parsons: You may not be convinced but that's how the engineering thinking and process works EVERYWHERE, not just at Microsoft. So you either get used it, provide valid feedback on why it is a bad decision and/or switch products. I'm not saying that I like how things are done but we're not the ones in charge and the world doesn't behave as we would very much like it to.

  287. Rafael H says:

    I have a suggestion regarding the ribbon and its relatively large height, which lead many to ask that it be hidden/closed by default. Remember how one big selling point of the ribbon bar is its automatic adaptation to the window width, resizing buttons and showing/hiding text?

    Well, then it certainly could be made to be adaptive to the height as well. You could allow the user to resize it freely, going all the way back to the old and simple toolbar. (I suggest that the first thing to hide is the caption text/legend of each ribbon section inside a tab.)

    Please remember MS, one thing that many power users want is customization, and for who uses it, it's very important.

    Thank you, I hope Windows 8 becomes a great OS. 🙂

  288. Klimax says:

    @Tuwogaka:

    WinAPI dumb? Not so. Dumb is person expecting computers to be AIs or base API to automagically know what is wanted without being told. (If you don't want to deal with it, then use one of many tools and libraries Microsoft and thirdparty provided – be it MFC,DotNet based like WPF to WxWidgets and Qt)

    Although design of WinAPI almost screams C++ objects being done in C. (Like handle->function being function(handle,…)

    1)Disabling screensavers and such has to be opt-in done by programms because OS can't know. It can be defrag, where certainly large graphic display of drive content appears. Otherwise it is not reliable and would be sort of useless. (So they(Opera programmers) has to care as they are the ony in the know, not OS)

    2)A lot of thing as many things are doen on pixel or subpixel precision. From browsers through MDIs to simple tools. There has to be some cutoff- where do you place it?(Assumptions about sizers and user intentions are often bad – I might want to d something different like deselct…)

    3)Metro AFAIK won't use pointer. Anyway it would be same or similar to the touchpads separating moving from clicking.

  289. Matt says:

    I really wish they would just combine all of their media programs into one. it's not practical to have Zune player, windows media player and windows media center. if they just some how combined them into one it would be easier to develop and my computer wouldn't have 3 programs from Microsoft that do the same exact thing. it feels redundant

  290. alex says:

    Microsoft Clear type technology is very very bad technology for user eyes.

    i do't use windows vista and windows 7 only for clear type technology.

    please improve or change it completely and back on the windows xp standard fonts.

    windows 7 fonts and areo is not transparent.it's like dusty page.

    you are responsible for user healthy.

  291. cauleyflower says:

    The idea of having the windows desktop as an "app" within the "Metro UI" is an over-complicated DISASTER for desktop PC users. It is a fine "bodge" for tablet users, but will just confuse novice PC users by adding an unnecessary extra layer of hierarchy and unnecessary new UI to learn.

    A better approach for desktop PC users is to invert the situation and make the tablet/"Metro UI" a separate "app" just like Windows Media Center is a separate app on Windows 7.

  292. Dude. By Desktop.app is that the dsktop will be like its own app, and will be seperate from the rest of the system, code wise, a PC user will not notice a difference, except Microsoft MAY add a disable desktop switch somewhere.

  293. alex says:

    Microsoft Clear type technology is very very bad technology for user eyes.

    i do't use windows vista and windows 7 only for clear type technology.

    please improve or change it completely and back on the windows xp standard fonts.

    windows 7 fonts and aero is not transparent.it's like dusty page.

    you are responsible for user healthy.

  294. @Alex

    Microsoft is in no way responsible for anyone health.

    Cleartype and NT 6.x font rendering is to increase sharpness of the low qualoty bitmap graphics they use, making it more readable, and once again putting off the rewrite windows desperatley needs.

  295. max says:

    Please Give Metro UI an Aero Glass Effect..i.e. make the tile Transparent with Glass Effect..

  296. Bimal says:

    Please give Aero effect to the Metro UI.. i.e make the Live tiles of Metro UI transparent with Aero Glass effect..The colored semi – transparent live tiles will look awesome..

    The Metro UI would look great after it's Fusion with Windows Aero..

    Please consider this as an UI enhancement..

    Thanx..

  297. keep posting 🙂 i'm so excited to hear more about Windows 8

    And please can you tell me the date of BUILD because i am not sure when it is plus is there any way to sign for the beta testing ? and.. when it's going to be out ?

    Thanks

  298. @Steven, i apologize if i have come off as rude, i understand that everyone at Microsoft has put decades of their lives into their products, and I'm sorry if i came off as callous. I'm just trying to help make Windows 8 be the best OS in the world.

  299. steveg says:

    @BumbleBritches57: I don't think you sound rude, merely young and enthusiastic.

  300. Thanks for keep posting Steve and the Windows Team for keeping us update from your development. 😀

    We are looking forward of Windows 8 to be more success and hoping to catch up in Tablet competition, I like rather get Windows Tablet than others since many programs (apps) that I use that is exclusively in Windows.

    Hope we see more exciting progress here in the blog, Metro in Windows 8 desktop and well improvements in Ribbon (lot of people complaining so I think better of to show them how will Ribbon blend with Metro and Windows 8). Media Center, I still use it but like others combining WMP + Media Center + Zune would be awesome, unified experience. More codecs in media also native file support. Touch optimize in Desktop (Immersive experience in Windows 8 is already touch centric in mind but in desktop there are still need for bit more improvement in touch, Windows 7 improvements in touch isn't enough. but I know desktop mode isn't really priority for touch.). Faster boot-up and Performance and also more power efficient. New app framework for touch apps (idk how will C# and Silverlight will work there but I'm also exciting about this as programmer).

    Cheers.

  301. Cherry says:

    @ Alex

    You don't have to turn cleartype on if you want to.

  302. @BumbleBritches57 not rude just off topic and your choice of language is too colorful for our content filter 🙂

  303. Jeremy says:

    @Steven Sinofsky

    Wow, you are dedicated to be posting at 10 AM on a Sunday!

  304. Tecno boy says:

    Steve, so far i like the changes for windows 8. what are the other features are we gonna see on the blog? whats new on windows media player??

  305. George Ellwood says:

    Please can you remove the horrible dotted line that is used for selection and replace it with something modern.. like the operating is trying to look now… modern.

    img84.imageshack.us/…/repleasemicrosoft.png

  306. I didnt know about the media center few days ago. I spend the week end using it and comparing it with media player.

    I come to the conclusion that media center is the way to go for windows 8.

    Here the reason why

    1 – i find media center more easy to use compared to media player who is real pain to use. Its too complicated  for basic uses.

    2- Media center cover all my media needs in one simple, nice and beautyfull interface.

    3 – the transitions effect on the media center are just awesome it make me feel that windows 7 is well designed product for media user. i dont feel that way when i use the media player.

    4- Finally, i really love media center and i never liked the media player. i talk about it to many people around me and nobody knew about the media center as i didnt know about it before i read that blog. You should really focus on one media place and make sure people knows about it, media center is really awesome i really like to use it. I do hope you will integrate zune and media center with the app market place.

  307. @Steven.. can you please answer my previous questions.. or one of them

    Thanks

  308. I forgot something important, if we do abstraction of business use, i think the main reason common folk would spend 200$ for a new OS (like windows 8) is for the media consumption.

    Of course for business use the media is maybe not that important, but for me and im sure for many peoples, the main reason they will spend 200$ of their hard earned money on a OS will be for a improvement on their media use and leasure time.

    Most of us spend over 40h a week working hard for our money,we dont want our week end time to be complicated, because beleive me, after my week of work as most of people here, my brain is dead and i want my week end time simple and not too complicated.

    So please, think about us the usual user when u will design the media center for windows 8.I have great expectation on windows 8, i beleive in it, i participate, and i do hope microsoft will listen to us.

    Thank for you great work, i am myself a developper i know its not easy to please everyone, keep the good job you do. If we all work/particiapte  together with a positive and constructive mind, im sure we can make this windows8  the best OS ever.

  309. GregH says:

    Build starts September 13th – http://www.buildwindows.com

  310. Todd Garrison says:

    I definitely think that Microsoft should bite the bullet and rewrite all of Windows from scratch so that they can finally drop the baggage of maintaining their world-class font rendering technology. (sic)

    My favorite article on the perils of rewriting software:

    http://www.joelonsoftware.com/…/fog0000000069.html

    Probably even more true today as we look migrate applications to the cloud.

    Don't rewrite, refactor and re-engineer.

  311. Jim says:

    @George Ellwood

    stop posting the same stupid thing every time, go elsewhere spamming

  312. Mike says:

    "As an aside, it is early to start the dialogue about a preference for one SKU with Windows. We’re well aware of this feedback and we always need to balance it with the feedback from our business partners who value a different approach."

    I vehemently disagree with this statement! There, I hope I got your attention.

    We know who your business partners are, they are the ones that are ruining many of the thing you are (rightly) so proud of by including crap software with every laptop or PC. END USERS, you need to listen to them to define the SKUs. If they want a single SKU, give them that. Business partners can take it or leave it, what are they going to do, sell OS X?

    I am personally a Mac user at home, and at work I'm a .NET developer. Man, the trouble I had to go through to get a clean Windows 7 Pro 64-bit install on my Dell laptop… can't even use the webcam in Office Communicator without installing some crappy Dell 'Cam Studio' program. And the 64-bit version of Windows wasn't even included in the box (yes, I had to download a torrent, sue me).

    And then I could happily use the English language version too (why the hell would that be only available in Ultimate?). But unfortunately, Professional isn't Professional enough to boot from VHD. Let's be honest, if you and I were having coffee at the Coffee Corner you could NOT explain that to me in a way that would maken me  satisfied with the explanation (what do you mean, booting from VHD is an 'ultimate'  experience?).

    Why would you let your business partners destroy the experience you have so wonderfully crafted, all in the name of money? If that's the case, why are we even having a conversation on this blog? Why don't you go ask your business partners wether they would like to have room for their logo in the Ribbon? I bet they'd love that too!

    So to end my rant:

    between you and me there is a business partner ruining OUR relation because of money. I say let them make their money, but let US together decide on the experience your are going to give me, the business partner can just deliver the box to my door, I'm happy to pay for that.

    Thanks for listening, looking forward to the SKU discussion!

    PS. Promise us you will TRY ONCE in a meeting to get everyone at Microsoft to consider a SINGLE SKU, just once, an open-minded, "what if, why not, what's the worst thing that could happen?" discussion.

  313. JohnFriel says:

    I just finished putting together my Tivo killer using Windows 7, an InviniTV tuner card, an SSD boot disk and HDMI video.  After about 10 minutes of using Media Center, I can't believe I was so married to the Tivo format.  Whatever Windows 8 does, please make sure it has a Media Center like Windows 7 does.  

  314. Neil says:

    Great article Steve,

    Can you get the guys to talk about cloud integration with current or new components, its the way of the future, the ability to outsource the My pictures folder to a cloud provider, or My documents for that matter would be amazing.

  315. @Todd Garrison

    yes, generally refactoring is the best choice, but considering most of Windwos' code wasis written in C or some even lower language, that is buggy and diffucult to maintain, and dosen't take advantage of multicore CPUs and GPUs and ram and x64 and all of the technology we have today, adn didn't back then is reason enough to rewrite from scratch. imageine how fast it would be if it was compiled for x64 using current technology alone. it would be a beast.

  316. Fallon says:

    I think it's great that if you don't use the "Classic" version of the OS, that it won't even load.  However, that's the EASY part!

    The hard part is this:  If you do load it, how do you remove it to conserve battery without having to reboot your system?

    This has always been a problem in .Net with AppDomains.  Easy to load, impossible to get rid of unless you reboot.

  317. @Fallon

    you simply make it a module, that gets loaded on demand. which IMO the print spooler should be load on demand too

  318. X says:

    Honestly, there are a lot of things that should be load on demand. I have 12 svchost.exe's running and I have no idea how many of them are really needed, plus other service programs that AFAIK do nothing most of the time. Having more of the background services be load on demand only in Windows 8 would massively improve performance.

  319. @X

    yes, i totally agree. another thing Microsoft keeps saying but i don't think is true, they are always saying "Unused RAM is wasted RAM" yes, that's true. except that once windows uses that ram it doesn't give it up.

    and yes, there are many services that are loaded at boot for no reason, it'd be nice if Microsoft had a cache of the required services per computer, kinda like a database that gets rebuilt every boot that has an xml file that stores teh path to the required services. kinda like Mac OS's KernelCache

    that way only necessacary services are enabled,

  320. not KernelCache. that's iOS. i meant KextCache

  321. @BumbleBritches57: Actually there are audits done every day within Windows (seriously) to ensure that no new services are added without thorough review.  And every service that starts at boot has to justify its existance (I was on the team that did the service reviews back in Win7).  Every one of the services that was enabled at boot time in Win7 was required for some important scenario.  And those services that are on the "autostart" list have their overhead pared down to a bare minimum.  Several of the auto-start services (for example the audio endpoint builder service) whose default footprint is only a couple of hundred of kilobytes of virtual memory (and essentially no physical memory).

  322. @BumbleBritches57: Actually there are audits done every day within Windows (seriously) to ensure that no new services are added without thorough review.  And every service that starts at boot has to justify its existance (I was on the team that did the service reviews back in Win7).  Every one of the services that was enabled at boot time in Win7 was required for some important scenario.  And those services that are on the "autostart" list have their overhead pared down to a bare minimum.  Several of the auto-start services (for example the audio endpoint builder service) whose default footprint is only a couple of hundred of kilobytes of virtual memory (and essentially no physical memory).

  323. Ok. I apreciate that, but the fact is, Windows takes considerably too long too boot, and uses too much ram. And this is on an 8gb ddr3, uad core discreet gpu machine, not something like an ipad (or worse, android tablets suck even more)

  324. Ok. I apreciate that, but the fact is, Windows takes considerably too long too boot, and uses too much ram. And this is on an 8gb ddr3, uad core discreet gpu machine, not something like an ipad (or worse, android tablets suck even more)

    Personally, i think the Windows team should set a target RAM usage for desktop and tablet, tablet 128mb ram.

    Desktop 256mb ram.

  325. Klimax says:

    @BumbleBritches57:

    Please, before futher comments read Windows Internals and watch some vids like "Arun Kishan: Inside Windows 7 – Farewell to the Windows Kernel Dispatcher Lock" on Channel 9 before saying more wrongness.

    Wndows were able since NT to take advantage of hardware and software advances just well. Each new advance gets used, be it cores (biggest change being in 7) through GPU (DWM) to virtualization and other tech. But that you didn't notice is not fault of Windows… (Win 7 x64,6 GB,Core i7,NV: 250 – noticed)

    "that once windows uses that ram it doesn't give it up" – Mostly wrong. You are most probably talking about services like Superfetch,whose memory however is marked as Standby – they realoc it quite fast, so there is no problem  if you mean something else; you got to specify.

    As for services – those driver services are disabled íf not needed and for rest of pack, I didn't spot any really unused. (not to mention there are a lot of dependencies even some are not really apparent without checking)

    So far you are more wrong then not.

  326. Klimax says:

    @BumbleBritches57 :"Windows takes considerably too long too boot, and uses too much ram"

    Start looking at third party services and programms, because fresh install and even the one used for years don't slow down so much and your specs are similar to mine and the only way to kill performance is through huge installations. Take SysinternalsSuite Autoruns and start checking what is starting. (When Core2 duo with 2GB can start under minute with older HDD, then yours should do much better and after SSD even worste case is 0:57) If it doesn't help you'll need Process monitor and Process explorer to take a look. Also there is possiblity of bad BIOS setting or bad HW/drivers. (Too many interrupts and DPCs can indicate that)

    Also you might want to check KB2510636 – might help if you have loads of services. It shaved of on Atom 5 seconds from boot.

  327. @Klimax (love the name)

    Yes. Some componets were.

    The fact of the matter is, the core of windows is mushy and rotten.

    What is windows 7 compiled for?

    Sse?

    General, flat assembly woth no optimizations at all????

  328. @jeff i like those buttons, but it'd look better of they were square to match the window frame border.

  329. I fid a clean install about a month ago, and i use msconfig to disable all non ms services except stupid itunes stuff that wont work when disabled.

  330. i downloaded that KBand just installed it, i'll see how it does.

    and it's not like it's horrible boot times either, it's just a minute is a long time to stare at a screen, and honestly Windows should be completely booted running everything within 20-30 seconds after the bios completes its stuff.

  331. I don't know specifically which feature it is, all i know it, 20% of my ram is used at the desktop, and itunes and photoshop only add to that number, windows dose not give up it's on memory, i'lll check into it in a little while with some RAM probing apps and see what specifically is going on, but windows does NOT need 1.5GB RAM upon boot. that's insane.

  332. Chris says:

    I'd love to see some themes back in windows. Much like the good old Plus! pack for Windows 98.  Ribbon needs to have some color other then that hideous blue.

    Or simply make Aero even better. Right now I'm using clear Screen sharp. To me, its how Aero should be. Clean lines.

  333. Chris says:

    I'd love to see some themes back in windows. Much like the good old Plus! pack for Windows 98.  Ribbon needs to have some color other then that hideous blue.

    Or simply make Aero even better. Right now I'm using clear Screen sharp. To me, its how Aero should be. Clean lines.

  334. Klimax says:

    @BumbleBritches57:

    Unless something changed on CPU side (would notice) then you cannot have SSEx or AVX oon kernel side as saving and restoring flags and state would kill performance. (it costs AFAIK  >500 cycles)

    As for Usermode, most probably graphics and whatever part could get it, but since Win7 still can and has to tun on older CPUs( like some Athlons) where those instructions are unavailable, it mostly doesn't make sense,unless profiůlling shows it will have effect.

    Don't forget that in order to support whole range of CPUs you have to have multiple code paths,so you have to have a case for it.  (Did you disasemble all or only tiny subset? I suspectlater is case and so could easly miss things…)

    "I fid a clean install about a month ago, and i use msconfig to disable all non ms services except stupid itunes stuff that wont work when disabled." What programms have you installed? Did they integrate into shell or something like that? That can kill perf. (Things like TortoiseSVN for example)

    You might want to check blogs.technet.com/…/markrussinovich and blogs.msdn.com/…/larryosterman for more info on many many things about Windows.

    And Intel® 64 and IA-32 Architectures Software Developer’s Manual + Intel® 64 and IA-32 Architectures Optimization Reference Manual

  335. Klimax says:

    BumbleBritches57:

    "it's just a minute is a long time to stare at a screen, and honestly Windows should be completely booted running everything within 20-30 seconds after the bios completes its stuff."

    Just sanity check: Do you count bios and AHCI init or pure Windows boot – the first part of HW init can take even 35 seconds out of 1:30 boot and Windows can't do anything about it.

    So in my case Windows 7 on SSD can boot (after deduction of HW) in 30 secs already. You'll have to dig what is going on or you'll need SSD.

    20% of RAM at start up? What the hell you installed? Use either Resource monitor, Process monitor or just task manager to see what is taking ram (assuming you talk about "used" ram)

  336. NiCa60 says:

    > "The answer today is whether the design works in the context for which it was intended"

    This is sound for my ears. And is exacly what I think: different context need different UI.

    Thanks for the post, I'm waiting for more dev info at Build Conference.

  337. PLEASE add Microsoft expression suite into windows 8 to replace publisher this will allow users to get online easily and grow Microsoft’s cloud. Include a marketplace gadget into PC for higher end partner products to low end partners selling products for the Microsoft platform both phone and PC/laptop. Increase addcentre usage include the software application with the OS, actually include all Microsoft offers as trails or full into all devices, make open and easy to manipulate and customize. Google will soon have its own range product including OS for PC/laptop and apple will extend into business products.

  338. I love a lot of animations in live tiles of MANGO….It would be nice if the team will add it to Windows 8 live tile also:))))

  339. @BumbleBritches57

    Windows boots fast. Here is my boot summary of Vista (yeah Vista):

    skydrive.live.com

    booting to Desktop takes 15s and booting is completely done in 18s. In this is a mainstream PC with a traditional HDD.

    So follow my guide and trace your slowness instead of posting "Windows is slow":

    http://www.msfn.org/…/index.php

    and Windows 8 includes a fast boot option called hybrid boot which combines hibernation with normal boot:

    http://www.msfn.org/…/index.php

    For your RAM issues, run RAMMap:

    blogs.technet.com/…/introduction-to-the-new-sysinternals-tool-rammap.aspx

    and look what uses the RAM. if you're unsure, save the RAMMap data as RMP, zip this and upload it.

    Steven Sinofsky

    09-04-2011 2:24 AM

    In a related note, one of the most common requests we get in any redesign is to continue to provide the old user interface along with the new. Sometimes this is suggested as a "transitional" benefit, and other times as a "compatibility mode." We've learned over many product cycles that the work to provide this significantly impacts the evolution of the product. The most immediate challenge is that any new commands added to the ribbon then need to be added in the old UI, even if there is no logical place for them.

    _____________________________________________________________________

    as long as they are available as commands when I do right click I have no issues. Better give the option of those tools:

    http://www.winvistaside.de/…/index.php

    to customize what we use most. I don't care about the rest.

    Ribbons simply uses too much vertical space and the version you use in Windows 7 (paint, wordpad) / Windows 8 looks completely ugly compared to the Office 2010 version.

    The user nowuniverse simply modded your ribbons at bit and this makes a huge difference in look, feel and working:

    img192.imageshack.us/…/ribboncompare.jpg

    The colors of the icons match better, using the same color for the ribbons like the Explorer view makes the ribbons appear smaller and more elegant. Mark Miller explained why the new version looks much better compared you your ugly version:

    community.devexpress.com/…/great-ui-clarity-and-color-on-the-presentation-layer.aspx

    You did several things wrong and changing it, like you see in the comparison, makes Ribbon to become useful.

    But the fail of the ribbon is the way to disallow addons to be integrated to the Explorer. This was the greatest advantage of Office. The UI can be customized and you can add your own comands. In your ISO/VHD sample we have 2 buttons in 1 Ribbon and a lot of wasted horizontal space. It would be nice to write an addon for the ISO handling to add new buttons to the ribbon to convert the ISO/VHD to different formats (NRG, VHDX, VDI, vmdk).

    Also why can we only select this small amout of entries in the Quick Access Toolbar (QAT)?

    blogs.msdn.com/…/5282.Figure-23-_2D00_-QAT-crop_5F00_2.png

    Give us the chance to use all commands and to hide the Ribbons by default (GPO). This is also a way to make Ribbon doubter happy. if they don't like them, they hide the ribbon and customize QAT.

  340. Alireza Noori says:

    I look forward to reading a feedback post which says sth like: "We received this feedback and we did this based on your feedback." I want to see the effect of user feedback on the product. Especially changes in the UI and the copy dialog (which again, I suggest a Queue feature). The guys in IE team did sth like this.

  341. guys, no need to flame, i just rebooted and measured the boot time with my ipod, and it's roughly 30 seconds, but there was like a 1 minute bios something. i'm sorry, it sure does seem like a long time though.

  342. @BumbleBritches57

    who flames here? I only see one user. And guess what, it is you 😉 Follow my guide and trace your Windows slowness.

    And BIOS takes some time to initialize the devices. That's why you should buy motherboards with UEFI 😉

  343. Windows Media Center is my favorite Microsoft product and I’m surprised that the United States isn’t in the Top 3 for heaviest usage.  My home-built DVR runs WMC 24/7 and even boots to the upcoming recordings screen.  Until broadcast TV switches entirely to the “on-demand” model, this is the best option out there right now.  That said, there’s always room for improvement and I have a few suggestions…

    Windows 8 Media Center Wish List

    1. Due to CableLabs changes in CableCard rules, I hope that Microsoft abandons the “extender” approach and adds the WMC code directly to XBOX so my devices can communicate more efficiently.

    2. Purchase Hulu so “Internet TV” has more content.  

    3. Ability to assign show recordings to different users.

    4. Ability to stream recorded shows to Windows Phone without DRM issues.

    5. Support for TRU2WAY since it is superior to CableCard.

    6. Ability to remotely create series recordings from any PC, tablet, or phone.

    7. Raise the tuner limit from 4 to whatever the computer can handle.

    8. Adoption of a standards-approved file container (MKV) for different types of video (TV, music video, movie, home video)

    9. Built-in metadata support similar to add-in products such as Media Center Master and Media Browser.  (WMP already does this for audio files.)

    10. Ability to stream live TV to any PC in the house, just like we can with XBOX.

    11. Better conflict resolution.  For example, if two shows overlap, start recording the 2nd show as soon as possible and search for reruns so the show can be recorded in full at a later time.

    12.              Screensaver that switches between current, recordings, upcoming recordings, and other useful WMC data.

  344. btriffles says:

    Here's an idea to reduce the vertical space of the ribbon:

    Provide a right-click option that allows you to hide the group labels (Clipboard, Organize, New, etc.), which likely provide little value once the user is accustomed to the ribbon.

  345. @Steven Sinofsky:

    Sth that I really didn't realize is, Why you are keeping the Windows Media Center and Windows Media Player? and, Why you didn't exchange them with Zune? I really love Zune and whole of my family and friends love it after they knew that Microsoft has a software called Zune! Why?

  346. Macky says:

    Will Windows Media Player have the ability to play all audio files ? Or will I have to stick to a program like VLC for doing so ?

  347. The new updated 'metro style' Xbox Live 360 Media HUB UI = Zune + WMPlayer + 7MC – I don't understand the need to include Media Center….when this UI already supports DVR Funtionalities?

  348. Since the blog won't allow me to post everything in one post….I'll continue and break it up in to several posts.

    ADVANTAGES

    All in one beautiful, light, clean/easy, informative/descriptive, consistent & elegant solution – More in sync with Windows 8 UI

    Fully updated Windows 8 Style Metro UI

    Live Informative/Descriptive Tiles (No static text/icons)

    Integrated Services (Kinect / Windows Live / Sky Drive / YouTube / Twitter / Facebook / Skype / Market Place / NetFlix / Games / Other Cloud Services/ etc)

    Consistent & Familar UI (Xbox 360 / Windows 8 / Windows Phone) = Three Screens (PC/TV/Phone) + Cloud

    App Support = Prob support current Win Phone 7 Apps aswell as the newer Win 8 Apps (MCE had very few developers – developers will def want to develop for the 360 + Phone) – Easier to build.

    Avatar Support – TV/Phone/PC

    Live TV (tuner Support) + Guide Support – Prob need a bit of tweaking updating

    Extender Support – Prob be easier, due to the consistent UI + code

    This new Xbox 360 Media Hub UI will definately be a winner and easily surpass the 6% usage of Windows MCE.

  349. @Macky I like your question

    hope they do it 🙂 it will be much better for us using WMP instead of installing an other software to play all the music like VLC

  350. Windows 8 Enthusiast says:

    Steven you are too distracted from the blog. Get back to work and make Windows 8 better. LOL

  351. Klimax says:

    @BumbleBritches57 4 Sep 2011 4:53 PM

    "roughly 30 seconds, but there was like a 1 minute bios something" BIOS slow. I suspect whole lot of AHCI controllers + some more things like USB3 or cards to get such time. Nothing Microsoft can do there…

  352. George Ellwood says:

    @Jim

    Sorry for "Spamming" my most recent post may appear twice as the first comment was not confirmed and may of been a double post by accident.

  353. GregH says:

    In regards to the context menu in Explorer – for me the mainly used functions are Copy, Delete and Rename – and these items are at the bottom of the context menu meaning lots of swiping the mouse downward – a bold improvement to Explorer would be a redesigned context menu to speed workflow or allow the customisation for a personalised experience where file and folder management is concerned – the telemetry says that users are using the context menu – so why isn’t the focus on improving the context menu in Windows 8 and doing a little something outside the box.

  354. dear god says:

    there are quite some pc newbies

    convert here, record in format .xyz

    full support for .zyx playback

    and of course so many WMC user.. You should try Mediaportal + XMBC

  355. Minkul Alam says:

    I want to have this feature built into Windows 8 -> "Thanks to the anti-aliasing algorithm in Safari, you enjoy crisp, gorgeous fonts. The algorithm preserves the subtleties of each font while rendering each character with a crispness that makes your favorite sites a pleasure to read."

  356. alex says:

    @BumbleBritches57

    please see this caputres of windows xp and windows 7.

    windows 7 fonts have shadow and are really unreadable.

    www5.hipfile.com/…/win%20xp%20%26%20win%207.rar

  357. geardoom3 says:

    I think my first comment wasn't posted.

    I wanted to say that, when I look at the interface, I really don't like seeing tiles cut in half as the titles are also cut.  this is ugly.  Why you guys are making it that way ?,  Why not just an arrow like the Windows Phone 7,  even the WP7 when you go in apps like photos, it starts to cut things in half and it's very not beautyful as a UI

    If people like this, please make an option so for those who dislike it, would be able to have just an arrow.

  358. Constantin says:

    if you want to remove e.g. an external hard drive and it is still in use with oyur computer, tell the user what programm is using it, so he knows where to look.

  359. Vlad says:

    Im a beginner in programming but 've succeeded to make apps on my own with snappii.com  You can make sure how it can be easy.

  360. Gavin Greig says:

    I use a combination of Media Player, Media Center and iTunes. I use iTunes for ripping CDs and managing music meta-data; I use Media Player to play music or video on my PC; and I use Media Center to get an idea of how things will appear on my TV using an Xbox as an extender. So it's useful having it on the PC, but it's really only as a testing environment for where I'll really use it!

    And that's where the problems arise. I'm currently ripping my DVD collection onto storage managed by Windows Home Server with DriveBender, and if I were less technically aware (I'm a developer) I'd have given up long ago. Just getting everything working together – Media Center, Home Server, My Movies and Xbox – is a pain, and then the functionality of Media Center on the Xbox is actually less good than on my PC. I think I'd be satisfied with Windows Media Center if its functionality were fully available on the Xbox, but on the PC is not primarily where I want it, and I don't want to have to add yet another PC in my living room purely as a media server. I'm pretty hacked off that I'm having to seriously consider just that, since it's the main reason I bought the Xbox.

    What is it I'm really missing? Simple playback of ripped DVDs, including menu functionality, and the BBC iPlayer, both on the Xbox. That's the thing though; it's not a Windows problem, it's an Xbox problem, or more likely a Microsoft home ecosystem problem – which is why I thought it worth posting this comment. I think the low usage of Media Center is probably partly lack of awareness of its existence, partly that people starting it up casually on a desktop or laptop are not going to find the 10-foot interface a good fit there, and mainly that it's just not obvious what has to be done to get it working satisfactorily in conjunction with a TV where the interface comes into its own.

    When you do start figuring it out, it requires way too many machines to do everything; not the sort of thing most users will want to do, or be able to afford. At the moment I need 3 (desktop/laptop, server, Xbox) and I'm looking at maybe having to get a fourth (media server). I would prefer to have two (an always-on "home box" doing storage, backup and media serving, and a desktop/laptop for interactive computing. For those more interested in gaming, I would see the Xbox and the "home box" as partner products, so you don't have to get both, but if you do they integrate with each other really well; perhaps they even physically plug into each other). Windows 8 alone can't solve that issue, but you can help work towards it.

  361. mohsin 23227 says:

    hi,

    i think window xp is very good for all users… windows 7 is best choice for begginer users

    Regards,

    mohsin qureshi-23227

    http://www.businessideas.pk

  362. Hassaan Masood says:

    Hi, I want to give feedback about the WIndows Fax and Scan Program. Microsoft should redesign it as the windows explorer has been redesigned and implemented ribbon look, windows fax and scan should also be redesigned as other applications like paint, notepad. Furthermore, microsoft should include OCR function in Windows Fax and Scan so as to perform OCR on both scanned and fax documents. Due to removal of OCR from Office 2010, we do have to face much problem, because it was simple and easy to use which fulfills basic requirements. I hope, Microsoft will look into this matter. Actually i was expecting a newly designed fax and scan with windows-7 but it is the same as vista. after release of windows-7 i left comments on some microsoft sites, but no response. I hope so you will look into this matter. Because Windows-8 is all about redesigning of windows from the beginning.

  363. Hassaan Masood says:

    Hi, I want to give feedback about the WIndows Fax and Scan Program. Microsoft should redesign it as the windows explorer has been redesigned and implemented ribbon look, windows fax and scan should also be redesigned as other applications like paint, notepad. Furthermore, microsoft should include OCR function in Windows Fax and Scan so as to perform OCR on both scanned and fax documents. Due to removal of OCR from Office 2010, we do have to face much problem, because it was simple and easy to use which fulfills basic requirements. I hope, Microsoft will look into this matter. Actually i was expecting a newly designed fax and scan with windows-7 but it is the same as vista. after release of windows-7 i left comments on some microsoft sites, but no response. I hope so you will look into this matter. Because Windows-8 is all about redesigning of windows from the beginning.

  364. @alex

    09-05-2011 11:39 AM

    _______________

    for me the Windows 7 version looks much better and easier to read compared to the XP pictures. You have a different visual perception. I have the same issue with the IE9 (Direct2D rendering) where I get headache after a few seconds.

    You can use the ClearType tuner in Windows 7 ("C:WindowsSystem32cttune.exe") to adjust ClearType or disable it to get the XP look back.

    Play a bit with it.

  365. w1ngnut says:

    Hey Steven.

    Video #1 is a great reference. Love the Metro interface in W8. Also, it's great to hear you are opting to move to a more standard tech such as html5/javascript. I'm a .net dev and would prefer writing apps using standards than any MS-specific tech such as Silverlight.

    Now, getting back to the desktop, having a default desktop and metro side-by-side is great. I will be able to run W8 on my tablet (which am currently waiting for) or on my notebook. My only concern is that you manage to make them look more similar. Glad to know that you have confidence that this will be harmonious. Hope that's just not about usability but also about visual experience.

    Also, there have been some great comments here, hope your team can address those as well.

  366. MCCZ says:

    @Der Schwabe: I see I have missed some (hardly unofficial) articles and findings about WinRT and DirectUI. I got from them that the new "native" API (DirectUI etc.) is very similar to the current WPF/Silverlight/WP7 APIs and even the new API is "native", it is also natively available to .NET developers through some automatic converters (while the shipped libraries will be preconverted from Microsoft). This seems promising and Microsoftish.

    Unfortunately, Microsoft is in the "wait for the BUILD" policy, so I still need to keep some projects (and customers) delayed until late September (or when will Microsoft deliver the preview to the very public)…

    PS: The blog commenting system is quite crappy… I hardly get the post sent (nor shown the greeen confirmation box)…

  367. Rich says:

    Please make it easier for non-admin users to install fonts, an option in group policy would be nice.

  368. iFiredog says:

    @ Cameron Turner 11-09-03 16:49Z

    "It is true that not everything can be measured through telemetry (i.e. user happiness), we rely heavily on other methodologies such as focus groups, customer visits, surveys (and this blog!) to get multiple, balanced views on our customers' needs."

    Hundreds of thousands of users visit the MS forums, some to seek answers to questions, others to vent their frustration. Looking at a few forums that cover Explorer in W7, for example, it's easy to see which wheels squeak most. A good number of cases refer to things that worked to users' satisfaction in XP but which seemed to have been inexplicably changed for W7 so they no longer work as expected.

    The most popular topics in the Answers Files, folders and search forum are How do I switch off auto-arrange?, Explorer pane doesn't refresh, Explorer navigation pane expands inappropriately, Windows don't remember their size and position, Advanced Search, Search doesn't work properly, File associations, How do I see the folder size?, and – astonishingly popular for such a seemingly tiny feature – How can I move the desktop button back to where it belongs? Topics in the IT Pro UI forum mirror many of these, with a few more like Where's the classic start menu?

    I'm sure I'm not alone in wishing that more effort were put into fixing these perceived faults so that the UI does what people want rather than adding more features that few asked for. Telemetry won't tell you, for example, how many people wish the Show desktop button was near the start button, instead of a couple of feet away. Or how many would like to see the folder name or the full path in the title bar. It might tell you how many have been brave enough to install Classic Explorer, but that's surely only a tiny fraction of those who would prefer a classic explorer to the one they get in W7.

    Please have a look at the forums as well.

  369. geardoom3 says:

    Example of a non cut tile : pages.videotron.com/…/example.wmv

    I just need to know if this will be possible to avoid having things cut ?

  370. Hello Steven.

    I have been keen on computers, PCs and Macs alike (no offense), for some time, and enjoy using Microsoft technology like Windows Phone (I use Windows Mobile 6.5 on my mobile phone, with great satisfaction), but I just have some opinion to say about Windows 8.

    In my opinion, firstly, allowing users to set their default UI to use in startup would be a great feature. I don't want to boot up my computer to see something that is more suitable to use on a Tablet than a PC. No offense, but I don't like Metro that much like some of the other people on this blog. If I wake up to see my computer like that, I will throw it out of the window at that very moment it boots up and enters the start screen.

    Secondly, keeping Windows XP Mode, or at the very least, legacy support for older programs, would also be very important. There are still plenty of people using Windows XP, just like me (well, I dual boot my computer with XP and 7, getting the best of both worlds, so I am free from this problem), and keeping support for legacy users would be important. If not, there may be serious issues in enterprises like "Why can't I run this on Windows 8? It used to work on Windows XP…" or "We'll rather stick to Windows 2000 if we can't use our programs on Windows 8". I am just a secondary student from Hong Kong, frankly speaking, but I am just trying to emphasize a series of problems that may arise in the society, especially when my school is still using Windows 2000 as the main OS on some of their computers, which brings back great memories for me, but is a bit old and needs something more than Service Pack rollups or unofficial patches. For your and Microsoft’s references, the public library’s electronic database system in Hong Kong is still using Windows NT 4.0. For example, if the government upgraded to Windows 8 and found out that the programs they would require to use won’t run on Windows 8 anymore, things will get a change for the worse.

    Last but not least, I would hope that the Themes system can allow customization more freely, and that it would be available for Metro UI as well. I don’t quite like this UI, but customizability is a very serious issue. Things are much better in Windows 7, but people would like an even higher level of customizability. If Microsoft can *ever* allow us users to design the UI, it would be a very big step forward for Windows. It would mean that the UI can be altered drastically without taking the risk of unofficially patching system files and critical getting system errors.

    I really look forward to Windows 8. I hope that this blog is really a “dialogue”, just as you had stated before in part one, and that Microsoft can listen to us users’ opinions and feedback before they actually start developing.

    Hope to see a bit more of Windows 8 in the near future and that Microsoft can really listen to us users’ thoughts.

  371. @drewfus- thanks for the suggestion. What would you do with your own telemetry? (Or do you have suggestions for things we should do w/aggregated anonymous telemetry that we don't do today?)

  372. Well I for one am a major fan of the metro style UI and ribbon interface.   I have been using Windows 7 phone since the day it was released in the US.  This experience has accustomed me to using this UI.  It allows relevant data to be displayed in a more visible way.  Also the ribbon interface allows people to access commands in a quickly and easily.  I for one look forward to using this software and expect it to be a big improvement over what I am currently using (windows 7)

  373. ilyon says:

    Love work done with W7, but lots of things begin to be crapy "à la" iTunes: you have to let the system easier for users, with unified tools sometimes: replace WMP and MC by Zune, aggregate Live systems in one zone (xbox, meesenger, networks) and a more "pro" network.

    Too many tools for too many similar uses.

  374. prince says:

    Love this design: That's the way the ribbon should look like.

    Clean, simple, customize, Metro like …. please Microsoft Designers, look at this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    http://www.moquo.com.ar/…/Windows8ExplorerConcept1.1.jpg

    Really awesome design.

  375. So that's it for post in Windows 8 blog  (NO NEW POST)???

  376. Dasharath K. says:

    hey Steven

    I'm glad to comment again

    my two cents:

    * INTEGRATION of media player, media center, zune – single app for media ! (even for pictures)

    * INTEGRATION of visual between all apps – make it homogeneous !

    no more different apps that looks differents – it's an OS it should look like a single monolith scheme

    * Push notifications

    * ANIMATIONS: for boot screen, for desktop, for tiles but more important for lock screen !!

    * Customizable Live Tiles with push in lockscreen

    but over all the rest the most important feature is CUSTOMIZATION

    every user shall be able to have the fully colored or plain grey windows, with menus, buttons, borders, icons, fonts, screens, whatever…THE WAY THEY WANT IT

    people want is pink ? let's have it

    another wants a fully minimalist boring grey ? let's have it

    every basic item of the UI should be customizable

    for me windows 8 should be " a fully integrated, homogeneous, animated and (appearance) customizable UI with the robustness of Win7 behind it to support the bones

    thanks

  377. @nowuniverse

    They are now focused on Build conference, but i also hope to see a new post today or video today 😉

  378. @Microsoft

    you guys should get rid of all of these individual tools, like Fax and Scan, and integrate them directly into Explorer, less start menu clutter, less WindowsSystem32 clutter, and better integration.

  379. site-jumper says:

    @ Steven Sinofsky

    Just one precise question :

    Will Windows 8 boot by default into the Metro interface with the ugly tiles or will I be able to boot directly into the classic desktop instead ?

    Can I get an unequivocal answer to this question please ?

  380. Annoyed Guy says:

    @prince and everyone for ludomatico

    stop reposting your stupid screenshot which is pretty ugly too. They WONT hire you for a childish drawing. Don't spam the board.

  381. Alom the man says:

    Hi Steve,

    Zune is simply the best thing that has happened to microsoft in a very long time. This software is simply complete in every aspect. I would really like to see Media Center, Windows Media Player and Zune clubbed into a single software (call it Zune may be). This will enable us as users to use the best of all the three.

    On the side, I would like to ask are these programs build on the top of WPF.  I have been writing .NET code since .NET 1.0 and actually worked for Microsoft as a contractor for 3 years. WPF is simply a platform and is ahead of any other GUI technology by years. I would really like WPF to be an integral part of Windows 8 with its rich GUI capabilities. Lastly, congratulation for the great work you guys are doing. I am sure Windows 8 will rock the tablet market and infuse life into the PC market which is somewhat slowing down.

    Cheers,

    Alom

  382. In Agreement with Annoyed Guy says:

    I wouldn't say ludomatico's screenshot is UGLY, per se. I think its quite nice, actually. If you released a skin of it for Windows 8, I might even download it 🙂 I DO think reposting the screenshot is spamming. I DON'T think they will adopt your design. Actually, I'm positive that they won't. So lets keep that off the blog.

  383. A lot of attention has been given to the UI aspects, which are important, but let's also consider the core.

    1) Power Management: Windows 7 is better, but even with POWERCFG /REQUESTS there are often times my system refuses to sleep and I have no idea why. It would be nice to have better debugging tools, and more granular configuration for processes that should or shouldn't inhibit sleep or hibernation.

    2) File System:  The C:Windows folder is massive, containing many backup and other files that are rarely, if ever, accessed. Sure HDs are cheap, but what about high performance systems with solid state disks? We don't want to use 20% of that expensive SSD for a bloated winsxs folder. Maybe something could be done to intelligently locate active parts of the OS and programs on SSD, while keeping the infrequently used files on cheap rotating drives?

    3) Plug-In device management: It always puzzles me when I unplug an installed device from one USB port and plug it into a different port, Windows acts like it has never seen it before, and performs the complete driver install process again. Does the driver install mechanism need to be re-worked?  

    4) Last but certainly not least – the Registry:  Surely we can devise a better way to manage system configuration than in monolithic binary files? OS configuration should be separate from application configuration, and applications should be cleanly separable. The file system's hierarchical structure could provide that. Of course it wouldn't help to have millions of small files in a folder tree that is just as obtuse as the registry.  There must be something in between  (perhaps using XML) that would be more maintainable?

  384. Mark says:

    Steven,

    I love where you are taking the UI. One thing I would love to see in explorer is a column for folder size! Please!

  385. I've made a concept for a very interesting feature, that can be addressed for Windows 8 Explorer.

    The feature/concept is called "Contextual Actions".

    It's an animation, that shows how to call a contextual menu, without the necessity of making right-click or pressing a key of the keyboard.

    It's a very interesting feauture, and can be implemented for touch screens too.

    Please take a look here:

    http://www.moquo.com.ar/…/Contextual_Actions_Animation.gif

    Thanks,

    DB.

    PD: if you want to see a Windows 8 Explorer Concept made by me recently, please go here:

    http://www.moquo.com.ar/…/Windows8ExplorerConcept1.1.jpg

  386. Even more annoyed guy says:

    WOW LUDOMATICO GREAT JOB!!!

    You just suggested to clic 2 times instead of only one time to bring up the menu … congratulations.

    And oh.. you reposted your concept ^__^

    What a pleasant surprise.. I'd suggest a ban

  387. Noel Carboni says:

    I'd just like to say one thing, as a general comment:

    Please, PLEASE, Microsoft, don't follow what others do.  LEAD the way.

    What do I mean?

    — Don't make your search like Google's.  Make your search do what a search should do, every time, reliably, and without missing anything.

    — Don't oversimplify things in the UI, then leave this oversimplification without the ability for power users to configure it.  Some of us still expect it to be a bona fide computer system, not an entertainment system.  Surely your own engineers use Windows 7 to do real work.

    — If you're going to deprecate features, please make them an option for at least one version, and maybe put up a one-time dialog mentioning that they're going away in a future version.

    Thanks.

    -Noel Carboni

  388. bartex9 says:

    LudoMatico: Excellent job! It looks great! I would like to see Windows 8 Explorer like in your concept very much…

  389. Even more annoyed designer says:

    @LudoMatico

    Your concept is actually the way Windows 8 should be (redrawn professionally and taking in consideration a nuanced approach) they will not do anything now as there is really no desire to make the desktop look nice – there is only the old Aero look with squared buttons, thick black outline and ribbon with icons and design that is mostly five years out of date – I don't think they hire designers there, I think the programmers all chip in and create what they think is tasteful most of the time, a mish mash of things they throw in from around the office.

  390. @sneakymoose- thanks! Every vote counts. 🙂

  391. @LudoMatico

    Nice concept but i would not be "we're asking our users for suggestions and what they want to see in windows 8" unless we see some users suggestions coming true and being included in windows 8

    If so i hope they include your GREAT idea because i see people liking it

  392. dandy23 says:

    probably he's liking his own posts..

  393. Hi everyone! 😉

    I would like to see RAR support too.

  394. TheTechFan says:

    @Windows Team

    I really like what I've seen so far of Windows 8, but I have several concerns:

    It has been stated that the Desktop code literally won't run unless you open the Desktop "app". But what does this actually mean? I hope it means that the Desktop and Metro are completely sandboxed from each other, not just that the Desktop UI isn't running. I'm worried that programs installed on the Desktop could screw up Metro. For example, could a desktop program be installed which would allow some aspect of Metro to be modified? Or worse, could a desktop virus also wreak havoc in Metro?

    What about more (or less?) subtle modifications, such as changing boot settings (for example, by installing Ubuntu Wubi on the Desktop)? If any of these scenario's can occur, then the Desktop is not really a sandboxed "app", but a lower level subsystem to Metro.

    If modifying boot options or booting to a different OS is possible, then it should be done through a setting in the Metro UI.

    ————–

    For the record, if it makes Windows 8 cheaper, I would be willing to pay $5-10 for Media Center if it was a downloadable Metro app that would allow me to play my DVDs and Blu-rays.

    Thanks again for listening to our feedback; I can't wait for Build!

  395. raymond says:

    better font rendering. a better overall UI that is not cluttered and something that does not hog memory and space like windows 7 for just making the UI usable.

  396. Stefan says:

    @Mannar K 2 Sep 2011 7:17 PM

    "You guys should seriously have a facebook page"

    Not all people use that crap !

  397. Stefan says:

    Come on people, not all love everything about what the Windows team is doing. Why do You suck up to every little thing the team come up with. I have used Windows since NT4 and i completely hate the UI since Vista, i completely hate ribbons. Stop suck up and come with some constructive ideas instead, i and some other people just think that sucking up to the Windows team are so stupid and so called fanbois alike……

  398. Stefan says:

    I add this again, because it never showed up…..

    Why don't Microsoft buy the rights to use other softwarecreators software, like the defragmenter from Raxco ? The one in Windows is a big joke. Paint has been there since, as long as i remember. Why not buy the rights to use for example Paint.net or GIMP ? DVD creator/Moviemaker why not use Pinnacle's great software ? And so on and so on. I hate that i have to isntall similar software that already are in Windows because it most often are junk what is already there.

    Once more let us who want the REAL Windows 2000 look to have it, that grey dull but easy to navigate menus and so on. I don't use an OS because it is full of graphical junk themes. I want it as simple as possible.

    Skip ribbons. They are not productive. I have now skipped Microsoft Office 2007 and use LIbre Office instead, because there are real menus ! Don't force crap onto users that don't want it.

    Yet again: Create only ONE version of Windows. Let the user select if he/she wants a Windows for gaming, music creation, entertainment or corporate (Office, programming and so on). Do also let the user to choose what UI he/she wants when it is running. Do also minimize the amount of unnecassary services running when Windows starts. Even if i use a network i can shut down quite many networkservices, or even uninstall some of them. Microsoft are really poor to think about people with older hardware with less resources. Windows 2000, XP, XP x64, Vista, Vista x64, 7, 7 x64 – all of them are full of services not needed to be set to automatic, many can be set to manual or even disabled. It should depend on what You choose what Windows should be used as that should decide what services will not be run. The newer OS the more crap is running at startup, most of it seldom really needed. That feature You introduced with Vista that lower Your network bandwidth when playing music…. I always did remove the dependencies to that in Vista and 7 so i could disable that service completely. I still haven't understood the meaning of that service in Vista and 7.

    When i choose to uninstall something from Windows it should not still be on the harddrive when uninstalled. Why waste space ? As i wrote above, not all people use the latest hardware !!!!!

    Finally there should be a tool, an easy used tool that can be used by amateurs as well, that make it possible to slipstream any future servicepack to Your own install-dvd. It is completely stupid to not let users be able to do something like that in an easy way. Both Vista and Windows 7 suck when it comes to that, at least Vista then.

    Ofcourse should it be as before, then SP1 is out it cover new updates and previous updates. When You get SP2 it should contain all previous updates, as well as being able to be installed Without SP1 already there. It is such a waste of time and electricity when You have to install all updates and all servicepacks. Stupidity ! Wake up guys !

  399. Brentus says:

    It would be great if Media Center fullscreen mode would play nice with doing things on the other monitor.

  400. Here are screen shots of the upcomoing 'Win8 metro styled' Xbox Media Hub UI, which should replace Windows Media Center as the all in one solution (Zune/MediaPlayer/Windows Media Center inc. MarketPlace/Apps + Live/Cloud Integration).

    s102.photobucket.com/…/Xbox%20360%20Media%20Hub%20UI

  401. Here are screen shots of the upcomoing 'Win8 metro styled' Xbox Media Hub UI, which should replace Windows Media Center as the all in one solution (Zune/MediaPlayer/Windows Media Center inc. MarketPlace/Apps + Live/Cloud Integration).

    h**p://s102.photobucket.com/albums/m90/PRINCEGRINCH/Xbox%20360%20Media%20Hub%20UI/

  402. Sorry for the double post….here are two short videos of the UI in action, with Kinect gesture and Voice support.

    Demo

    http://www.youtube.com/watch

    Advert

    http://www.youtube.com/watch

  403. Keith says:

    @ Stefan

    GYF There's nothing more annoying than people who think there opinion are better than others. I for myself and some of the posters in the blog happen to like metro UI and the ribbon interface

  404. Keith says:

    @ Stefan

    GFY There's nothing more annoying than people who think there opinion are better than others. I for myself and some of the posters in the blog happen to like metro UI and the ribbon interface

  405. @Brentus – I agree with u m8….that way I wouldn't need a separate nettop just 4 MCE 🙂

  406. Here's another demo of the upcoming Xbox Media Hub UI….which I really want Microsoft to use instead of the old Windows Media Center (sorry I keep going on about it….its just that….its a no brainer)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch

    (sorry I keep going on about it….its just that….it's a no brainer)

  407. I wonder if we'll get new icons? I always disliked how similar Win7 looked to Vista. To the untrained eye, Win7 could be confused with Vista which was unfortunate.

  408. Nick says:

    Hello,

    Yes, the ribbon is great. I moved my development (www.TasmanbayNav.co.nz) to it over a year ago and haven't looked back.

    What would be a useful improvement would be an option to hide the text at the bottom of each pane so just the actual buttons etc show. That would save some valuable screen space.

    Nick

  409. @campbell_kerr – I think we'll definitely get more 'metro-ish' looking icons for greater consistency between the two UI's.

  410. Windowsfan says:

    I don't know if much attention will be given to the late Labor Day posts. I'll take this day off to go on about things I'd love to see happen in Windows 8 anyway.

    First, more taskbar versatility. we should also be able to  pin simple things like folders/documents to it as well, without having "trick" the system. That's such a HUGE oversight. Users ought to be able to pin virtually ANYTHING onto the superbar including songs, screensavers, or videos. It would be great if there were color-coding/pictures that helped us differentiate one folder/document/video from another. We should be able to pin a Metro app to the taskbar so we don't have to exit the desktop and sift through our apps. Most importantly, we should be able to MAKE MULITPLE VIRTUAL DESKTOPS, NAME THEM and PIN THEM TO THE TASKBAR. OS X Lion really dropped the ball on the multiple desktop paradigm; you can't save multiple desktops, and you can't name them. Windows 8 has the opportunity to pick up that slack. Windows 8 team, please embrace  multiple desktops and make them work with touch! they would increase productivity in so many ways. It would be amazing if I could reach out and do a two-finger swipe on my screen/trackpad to switch desktops.

    Please let us use basic gestures around the OS, besides touch. Two-finger scrolling and "pinch" zoom ought to be standard, and baked right in to the OS. These gestures should work on the screen AND on the trackpad. OEM's shouldn't have to engineer their own alternatives. There's nothing quite like using a Mac to swipe around the screen. OS X is the buttery smooth to Windows' molasses slow.

    NO MORE "SMALL ICONS." I'm certain I could count the pixels on those ugly things. They're also useless, because SO much space is used up by the surrounding chrome! As the taskbar becomes more crowded, icons should simply become smaller to accomodate each other instead of moving into an ugly menu in the tray. Allow us the option of an "app drawer" as well, accessed via the taskbar, instead of making us increase the size of the taskbar.

    Also, the tray icons are ugly. Common sense prevailing, you will REPLACE THEM WITH STYLISH METRO ICONS. The way the transparency fades out towards the tray is also ugly. The whole thing should be solid.

    The Metro start screen is already buttery smooth, but  I'm a bit apprehensive about the smoothness of the Desktop. Aero Snap is a GREAT desktop tool, but it doesn't work smoothly AT ALL. When I snap a window to an edge of the screen, the window STUTTERS into place, as if there's a glitch. When I resize screens with the mouse, the problem is even worse. All sorts of black, empty space rears its ugly head as I move the edges back and forth, and the windows tend to blink. On OS X, the content and UI are animated smoothly in time with the resizing. Please make these transitions attractive and smooth.

    Windows 8 should embrace "chromelessness." It's certainly a funny word, but it's important. There shouldn't be any chrome around the "volume" widget. It doesn't look clean or appealing, and it's useless. Again, enough with the taskbar application chrome. there are better ways to show which applications are running. Window previews should be chromless as well. the only function chrome should serve on a window is to provide a place for interactive buttons and tools. Chrome at the top of the windows should be exactly flush with the content, as it is in OS X. Modern applications are simply beautiful to look at this way. The chrome surrounding the edges of a window IS useless and it IS unattractive. That isn't to say Aero's transparency is unattractive; I still love aero effects. Many of us have seen the super-thin chrome in the Windows 8 leaks. I'm sure many of us wonder why you'd make the chrome so thin, yet hesitate to REMOVE it. Please, remove it.

    I'm loving the straightness and flatness of the close/minimize/maximize buttons on the leaks (i certainly hope you embrace that look instead of the glossy, garish, 3d ones you've been showing us on the blog) I wish the colors were a tad more vibrant, but then again, I haven't seen the final product. I'm worried that you wont take the pretty Metro buttons from History Vault's UI and slap them onto explorer's UI. If you did, I think it would make my day. And a lot of other posters' days as well. It just looks so much better than the round, fake 3d buttons that exist on Windows explorer and Internet explorer today. Could the ribbon go through a Metrofication as well? Now, a lot of people see Metro style as one-note and single colors, but it doesn't have to be this way. Metro style can mean "flat, with solid, confident lines." Metro buttons can still be colorful! Please use Segoe font more consistently.

    Finally, windows with clean, strait corners are wonderful, but I hope you make them as beautiful as they are on the start screen/ xbox dashboard. On those two, the tiles almost seem like a piece of paper floating on the screen. I LOVE the look, and I hope you can replicate it with aero on the desktop. Anything but the jagged, pixelated corners on 7! As much as I love the OS, i despise those, with a fiery passion! ha.

    A bit long, I know 🙂  but there are things I've gotta get off my chest. Please, listen.

  411. cauleyflower says:

    @Huckle – well said. The problem with these comment forums is that they tend to attract a type of geek who always want some "new" UI to fiddle with for a few hours, rather than being representative of the wider user-base. They seem obsessed with this "Metro UI" just because it is new and tablets are the latest fashion fad, not because it is actually useful nor improves a desktop/laptop user's experience in any way e.g. why can't these "tiles" just be Desktop Gadgets with some enhancements? The "tile" approach to me seems to me less about making the best UI for your PC, and more like a lame marketing attempt to sell Windows Phone 7 and show consistency with WP7 no matter what.

    I do not want a mobile phone UI on my PC, nor do I EVER want to see this "Metro UI" nor "Metro start menu" when I use my PC (I doubt many non-tablet users will either). The only place I want to see "Metro" is in a separate full-screen program such as Windows Media Center.

  412. cauleyflower says:

    @campbell_kerr "I always disliked how similar Win7 looked to Vista"

    Really? THAT is your primary concern? SO WHAT if Windows 7 looks similar to Vista! Why do you care – seems to me an interest in fashion more than anything else. IMO both Vista have a timeless beauty to them, so why change something just for the sake of change because some geeks what to show how much more "1337" they are than their other geek friends by having the "latest look"?

    I have to also disagree with @Windowsfan and others too –  IMO those squarish caption buttons look absolutely horrendous in the screenshots – hard rough and cold, as do WP7 and IE9. It's as if these geeks think it is cool being "retro" because it reminds them of their Atari ST or Amiga in the 1980s or something!

  413. alex says:

    @Andre.Ziegler

    ok

    now view this pictures.you are partial windows 7 only for graphy features.but this feautre is not optimize.

    zooming picture in both operating system.

    www5.hipfile.com/…/Archive.rar

    about clear type.you see windows 7 desktop aero fonts are compatible with clear type , but notpade or other word process softwares is not compatible with this technology.

  414. Love this design: That's the way the ribbon should look like.

    Clean, simple, customize, Metro like …. please Microsoft Designers, look at this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    http://www.moquo.com.ar/…/Windows8ExplorerConcept1.1.jpg

    http://www.moquo.com.ar/…/Contextual_Actions_Animation.gif

    Really awesome design.

    LudoMatico Thank you..

  415. @Windowsfan: a lot of good ideas, especially with pinning different kinds of things to the superbar. Also the gestures. Gestures on Macbooks are very handy. It makes sense since we're heading towards touch interfaces. Also, yes, a lot of wasted chrome (try previewing multiple skype conversations from the superbar).

    @broccauley: all I'm saying is, Windows 7 was such a big improvement on Vista, and it would be in MS's best interests to try and differentiate between Vista and 7 by refreshing the look (icons, themes etc). Similar to how Win95, 98 and Me/2000 had (slightly) different system icons. Also, new startup sound please!

  416. Just another thing…. I think I did see somewhere that MS will be improving this – the "washed out" selection rectangles – very difficult to see what's selected, especially on laptop screens in some conditions/angles. Very light blue – which you'd think would be easy to modify (registry?) but I haven't seen this done.

  417. Read 'em 'n' weep ribbon doubters

    http://www.zdnet.com/…/3887

    "it takes two clicks to sort your photos by tag in reverse order. In iPhoto, it takes six clicks—after you sort by keyword (three clicks), you have to reopen the View menu, click Sort Photos again, and then click Descending (three more clicks). In fact, most options on the ribbon are one or two clicks away, whereas most options using iPhoto’s pull-down menus involve a minimum of two and often three or more clicks. "

  418. Tech boy.. says:

    is gadgets feature available on windows 8????

  419. Techno boy says:

    Do we windows 8 have a USER account? Password enables??

  420. Techno boy says:

    Do we windows 8 have a USER account? Password enables??

  421. Tech boy says:

    Does windows 8 has windows (xp, vista ) mode feature??.

  422. Mike says:

    I hope that in the next Visual Studio version the Ribbon controlls are part of the product. so that i can create ribbon programms very easy.

  423. Mikael BERTHO says:

    I'm a french user of Windows Seven Media Center and I'm very glade to see that Media Center will be part of Windows 8.

    I hope that some improvments could be made to make Media Center a killer apps :

    – support of subtitles

    – possibility to switch from one track to another (audio or subtitle)

    – automatically change the refresh rate when playing a video

  424. Tech boy says:

    does windows 8 have Facial recognition feature?

  425. Drewfus says:

    @Cameron Turner — I'm thinking more about aggregated data than a user or machines own data, although i don't really know what you have per machine, so that might be interesting too – perhaps program usage or app crash statistics?

    Regarding aggregated data, it would be interesting to have access to stuff like stop error stats, particularly in relation to specific hardware (device IDs, etc), or even manufacturers. I'm sure the gaming community would find that very interesting, as they would data relating to crash stats on machines with non-standard hardware configurations (overclocking, etc).

    When i think about CEIP in relation to things like building an unattend.xml file, where that option can be configured, i'm often wishing for a excuse to opt-in, other than just to be a "good Windows citizen". If opting-in meant i could access telemetry on a secure website, i would *always* opt-in. If some of this data was available, in raw or processed form, to the public, they then have the opportunity to not only access valuable/interesting info, but in a subtle sense, by being granted access, to become an "insider", and that might have benefits for both parties.

  426. thomas_lee says:

    Any chance of some discussion on PowerShell in Windows 8? For many IT Pros, this is a key aspect of the new operating system, particularly the Server version!

  427. Den says:

    @Steven Sinofsky

    What will be the role of WPF/Silverlight in the new Windows 8 world?

  428. I love ribbon, and I love desktop space even more. So, I would suggest that the ribbon can easily shown and hidden by user, with a simple click of an area of the menu bar of each window.

    Finally, I second Ludomatico and alocom: excellent design. Please, look at those suggestions. That's excellent design.

  429. It would be nice if Windows Live, Security Essentials, Zune will be integrated in the new Windows 8 and removed the old software like Windows Defender, Notepad etc.

  430. It would be nice if Windows Live, Security Essentials, Zune will be integrated in the new Windows 8 and removed the old software like Windows Defender, Notepad etc.

  431. Ted says:

    @Taym you can already hide and show every ribbon ever made, just by double clicking on any tab title (e.g. "Home").  then you can show it by single clicking.

  432. I agree with one of the comments about naming. As much as Windows Vista was a bad product, it had a good name: you could google (only google by the time) Vista + your problem and find a solution. "Windows 7" and especially "Windows Phone 7" are less effective names although they turned out to be amazing products.

  433. Ok Ok. We will have "Desktop" as we have had it for last (I cannot count) 16 years. "Desktop" is really great for a desktop computers where you really work on it whereas the Metro UI is amazing for portable devices. Going back to "Desktop", there should be new thoughts put in the DESKTOP in MULTIPLE SCREEN setup.

    You might wanna have a taskbar in the secondary screen so that you see the tasks running in the second screen on that task bar. Tray area coulbe just duplicated or kept on the primary screen. Moving one app from one desktopn to another could be done by draging its taskbar icon from screen to screen. This will allow users to run  specific app in the secondary screen by clicking on the pinned icon of the secondary screen's taskbar.

    and you know what it could all be disabled to get back to single taskbar status of windows legacy.

  434. @Steven Sinofsky    

    1.  UI : tiles are good.. keep ribbon plain solid  'tiles-like' rather than 'glass-like'..  whole OS UI keep it light as much as possible.. keep in mind ARM and touch when deciding on any UI matter..

    I like following concept someone posted above . gives feel of WP7 and metro. scrap glass and aero..

    http://www.moquo.com.ar/…/Windows8ExplorerConcept1.1.jpg

    2. Dev : XAML is good and so does the new rumoured jupiter. But there has to be solid HTML5 api .. give simple and limited access to OS ..rather than complex and powerful access to system via dev api …

    3. Internet :   windows live and bing search tightly..think of every single thing you can put BING in e.g. suggestions …  integrate skypdrie and office web apps  deeply for photos/document videos.. should few-touch-and-we-are-done  stuff. integrate Skype/live messenger (if you can do legally ) .. Tightly integrate social via rumored tulalip , live/facebook… they just need to stay close to their buddies.. just bring Windows 7's integrated social model to windows 8 .. updates, contacts right on Metro home screen..

    Also one thing to note here:  IF there is no Google search , there is no Google remember. Android and chrome OS or Motorola everything is waste.

    5: Multimedia: Either zune or windows media center should stay… central media access with yet again social integration .. whether its subscribed or stored on Hard drive or on skydrive  all should be accessible from single place..   For games , heavily integrate Xbox live

    4. Cloud : future is cloud remember… also enable cloud service (or extend skyedrive)  to store windows profile entirely on cloud (or easy sync option) … sync all device should be must have..  live/skydrive  based  cloud storage and/or sync   of photos, document, bookmarks, user profile, music, apps collection, movies   etc        is must have ..    Chrome OS might sound absurd idea today but after 3 years from now windows  will be competing browser-turned-OS   operating system.  

    6. Control of Ecosystem : please please please build marketplace this time.. world of windows app is very unorganized.. create strong regulation over app publishing and create marketplace …

    General :Earlier you couldn't separate an avg user with power users. I mean there were same machines for all .Mac or PC… the time has changeed.  future is different . as in emerging trends with tablets and mobile OS, in future, there will be clear line of separation between power user and avg user who want to browse and do some multimedia stuff   …so design anything keeping this in mind…

    Finally: Release it latest of late you can but bring something that blows all ecosystem out..  I can see WP7 , Windows powered All-in-ones, windows powered tablets , and windows embeded powered devices   together ruling every other systems out  ..

    I know all of this you might already have figured out and believe in it.. but I am just writing as I want to let you (guys in charge of building something that can totally disrupt how people think of windows and blow out any other ecosystems )    know as a windows lover , this is what I want my future windows to be like ..

    Thanks

    Prayaag  

  435. I think they would have live streaming on BUILD's keynotes however as of today I saw no sign of it in the website of either Microsoft or BUILD conference as well. So anyone from Microsoft will tell us about that?

  436. TimeMachine says:

    Beware of users registered an hour ago :>

  437. @Steven Sinofsky:

    I'm waiting for new posts! you are not going to post new videos or even new posts to talk about! these days you are really silent all of us likes to know about your idea on these new posts like those concepts that posted here!

  438. Paul Irwin says:

    The ribbon is great, and most people know it. The people that tend to not like the ribbon are IT enthusiasts, mainly the people that are reading this blog. Don't kill the ribbon just because some fellow techies (like myself) happen to not like it. The ribbon exposes commands that were awkward to get to before (like having to Shift + Right Click a blank space in the folder to open a command window there) and makes the menus context-aware which is extremely helpful. Keep up the good work, and keep posting more details!

  439. Soumya Singhi says:

    Media Center have been an important part of the Windows but for some reason Microsoft has not made it popular. I have seen that lot of people do not know about it. Those people who know …. just love it.

    I have started using Media center from last 6 months. I found that there is no one good place to find all the plugins. There are indeed not lot of plugins for Windows Media Center. I would like MS to work on the API for Media Center and make it more easy to write so that lots of people can write plugins for Windows Media Center. I want list of all the available plugins right into my Media Center. There should be an Media Center app store residing into Media center and I am ready to pay for those plugins.

    I would also recommend making it part of lowest SKU for Windows so that more people know about it. Many people use Windows Media center as an alternative to Google TV, XBox and other media centers. I found that my Mom and Dad (very naive users) just love Windows Media Center and want to get it setup on their PC and hook a PC to their computer.

    Please make sure that Windows team just surprise us with Windows Media Center in Windows 8. This is a great product!!!!!

    I also wish if Windows Media Center team has frequent updates with new plugins independent of Windows 8 schedule.

  440. Ravi says:

    The programming and software is always keep changing and it’s not easy to building operating system. I know its tuff. Everyday needs to be keeping updating. Also there is no point to go back to windows xp style. I am happy to see ribbon on windows explorer and I believe it a good change. Changing and improving the software is the key to success.  

  441. Eric says:

    Please add smoother font rendering!

  442. HU says:

    I appreciate your work and effort you put to make this happen

  443. @Eric

    I agree, I like ClearType but DirectWrite is a million times better looking, deploy that across the OS and that would be great.

  444. Logan says:

    I believe that all programs for this new version of windows should have the ribbon, but with an option where you can turn on menus. Also, a new Internet Explorer and Office would be good.

  445. Logan says:

    I believe that all programs for this new version of windows should have the ribbon, but with an option where you can turn on menus. Also, a new Internet Explorer and Office would be good.

  446. Windwalker says:

    Its been four days, give us something before BUILD….

  447. Gang — it was a holiday weekend in the US  🙂  Sorry folks expected more posts than we can do…I said we would post "regularly" which doesn't always mean "almost every day" 🙂  We're working hard.  I promise.  The enthusiasm is very inspiring.

  448. Casimodo72 says:

    The Ribbon works great for me and my customers. If your intelligence is insulted then just minimize the Ribbon. It works fine for casual Desktop users and is of tremendous help for Tablet users and doesn't insult the power-users I know of.

    Best regards,

    Kasimier Buchcik

  449. LANCE says:

    I agree, RAVI… microsoft keep up the good work.

  450. Tobsel says:

    I like what I have seen and read from windows 8 so far. For now I only hope that I will not regret my heavy invests in WPF after the news from BUILD.

    Silence is frightening a little bit ….

  451. After all i want to say Thanks microsoft and keep it up to bring the most powerful systems and tools

  452. geardoom3 says:

    BUILD in 1 week 🙂

    By the way, it takes a very long time before the Comments appear.  You should revise the way you populate your page or make it in Silverlight 🙂

  453. NoBS says:

    New names for Windows 8:

    1) Windows Metro Edition

    2) Windows Ribbon Edition

    3) Windows Power-Sinofsky Edition or Windows Sinofsky Edition II

  454. Casimodo72 says:

    @NoBS: If in the mood of choosing strange names, then I would go for the CASIE edition: deusex.wikia.com/…/File:CASIE.png

    Best regards,

    Kasimier Buchcik

  455. 'Nvidia CEO claims Windows Phone 7 apps will run on Windows 8'

    http://www.winrumors.com/nvidia-ceo-claims-windows-phone-7-apps-will-run-on-windows-8

    Even more of a reason to use the new Xbox Media Hub UI over the old Windows Media Center UI….natural evolution:)

    s102.photobucket.com/…/Xbox%20360%20Media%20Hub%20UI

  456. @GearWorld: My nit-picking nature wants to join your comment and add the hint of paging being a quite successful technique to avoid long loading times for blogs with many many comments.

    Best regards,

    Kasimier Buchcik

  457. geardoom3 says:

    I'm very sad guys.

    BUILD is around the corner, and we'll start soon to build windows yeah sure but still no tablet.  Does that mean that this great touch UI I could use for a great web application will not be seen on the go until a long time ?

  458. Goldberg says:

    Do not read those negative comments from haters. ignor them. they maybe apple mac ox fans.

  459. geardoom3 says:

    @ Kasimier Buchcik

    I would prefer a SL app for the blog as we are all here for that 🙂

    Or almost 🙂

    Way faster than paging or both, paging and SL, ok anyway,  I love so much the technology I'm using since April 2007 that I'm loosing my mind here…

  460. Window 8 ideas

    1. add expression suite to replace publisher and add word press application, and prebuilt ecommerce functions and wide variety of customisable templates (like adobe business catalyst). To grow the Microsoft’s cloud and usage of products. Allow integration with Office so people can start and grow the business using the expression suite (Microsoft’s online business suite) this includes. Operational management in excel etc. online marketing using Microsoft adcenter (must come with windows 8 in all editions to allow start ups and learning) this must include internet PR capability, social media , news, blog publication, books scanning, email and mobile marketing etc. Allow easy customisation so it fits business model (template will work). Create a global business network from windows 8. Allow partner to join offer their services in the systems.

    2. The phone version must have the same functionality and interface.

    3. allow UI customisation, to what ever degree with out comprising windows brand. Must come with a prebuilt customisable UI’s

    4. allow developers to flourish in your system so they don’t rebel.

    5. home additions must includes small versions to allow price reductions but integrate all functions into to allow grow and clear platform to use when the business grows into Microsoft dynamics make it clear the business will take in future when it grows and expands.

    Xbox/home box

    1. grow Xbox into a full entertainment box, that comes with a speaker, TV, Microsoft entertainment box for internent on TV screen, download movies, etc more like a home entertainment Box with everything in from cheaper version to expensive version (pricing interval between packages must not try push the consumer to buy the next level let them buy what they want at the price they can afford). Start arcade/LAN rooms globally and make it into a sport allow payment structures and winnings.

    2. Home box Must have a entertainment (Xbox), home management system, management water, energy, finances, washing machine, security systems (cameras  etc) all machines and can be management from any where using the internet. This kind of system will directly connect to the internet using small aperture +-2meter satellite dishes connecting into the www and Microsoft global VPN to allow user to manag their home any where at work, vacation etc.

  461. Will Windows Phone apps be able to run on Windows 8 platform like iOS devices?

    http://www.sfgate.com/…/article.cgi

  462. PBarranis says:

    It would be helpful if you could provide some of the data that you have seen that indicates that the Ribbon is successful.  I "grok it", but i frequently meet techy people who do not, and I often wish I could point them to the data that *proves* they are in the minority in this opinion.  I think it would dramatically strengthen your argument to show us all the evidence that indicates the Ribbon is such a great, worthwhile improvement it has been touted to be.

    Great post, and way to be firm in your decision making!

  463. Steve Krause says:

    Take a lesson from Apple.

    Keep it simple.  1 Version, 1 name, 1 brand.  Windows 8.

    No Windows Home, Windows Premium, Windows Pro, Windows Ultimate, Windows Ultimate, Windows Enterprise…..   Windows 8.

    All the money you lose you can just make up for by slimming your marketing team that comes up with all the new names.  🙂

  464. Airton says:

    From this post, I was especially interested in the Media Center topic.

    I'd like to hear more about the strategy for Media Center, because it is really really a great product, but doesn't make much of a sense as it is implemented/used today in the Windows desktop.

    One of these weekends, at a friend's house, I connected my laptop to their new 42" LED television. It was my first chance to use my machine on such a huge TV. As expected, Windows 7 seamlessly displayed, but I couldn't miss the chance to test Media Center.

    My friend and I spent HOURS AND HOURS listening to music, browsing albums, videos and etc through Media Center. We were sort of…mesmerized, delighted by how beautifully it looked as it really should be used. We felt it was just a great tv experience… It was all nice and my friend (who's not so tech savvy) said: I didn't know you're laptop looked so beautiful and nice! Why isn't it like that all the time?? 😉

    I came back home with a strong feeling of how could I easily set up my living room to use it, just as easy as buying a laptop/desktop….

    Got what I say? What is the strategy to make it as successful as the Windows desktp, to make it common on the living room as Windows is on PCs? Difficult to answer, I know. But this true story of mine reinforces what I feel is a great product that needs more work/attention to leverage and deliver its capabilities.

    Regards to all the team!!!

  465. Chris says:

    a user said above he didn't want the full screen view. how about keep it a way like Apple does. Enter full screen view only when you want to.  when you are in full screen or Window mode the app looks the same. I've ran media center in  window mode only to have things look a little fuzzy.

    I also fully agree with Steve Krause. Just have a single Windows. Like you did back in the old days. Allow the user to choose what they want to install at first one as with "modes"

    – Basic mode: Aimed at basic users, emerging markets etc.

    – advance mode: This mode will be aimed at the general user. Think of it as "Windows 7 Home premium"

    – Premium mode: This one has everything but the kitchen sink. aimed at Pros as well as the person who wants everything

    Keep the cost down too. Not sure how you can beat Apple's $30 but at least you can do is return it to the good old price of $99. Maybe have Balmer do a little dance again like he did for Windows 1 / 2.0

  466. Chris says:

    a user said above he didn't want the full screen view. how about keep it a way like Apple does. Enter full screen view only when you want to.  when you are in full screen or Window mode the app looks the same. I've ran media center in  window mode only to have things look a little fuzzy.

    I also fully agree with Steve Krause. Just have a single Windows. Like you did back in the old days. Allow the user to choose what they want to install at first one as with "modes"

    – Basic mode: Aimed at basic users, emerging markets etc.

    – advance mode: This mode will be aimed at the general user. Think of it as "Windows 7 Home premium"

    – Premium mode: This one has everything but the kitchen sink. aimed at Pros as well as the person who wants everything

    Keep the cost down too. Not sure how you can beat Apple's $30 but at least you can do is return it to the good old price of $99. Maybe have Balmer do a little dance again like he did for Windows 1 / 2.0

  467. Chris says:

    also how about retiring the dated Windows classic skin for a new skin thats clean, yet professional? Aero with out glass? and I don't mean the basic skin with that awfull baby blue color. (gray in the vista beta days)

  468. raymond says:

    Including better fonts/classic fonts and better font rendering. Fonts like Helvetica, Garamond, Baskerville, Futura, Akzidenz Grotesk, and all the other classic fonts would be nice to be added to windows 8. Thanks.

  469. @Steve Sinopsky and the entire Engineering Team – Off topic, but keep up the great work, and team work! The Engineering Windows 7/Building 8 Blog and the IE Blog are and were very inspiring to this fellow engineer. And as a .Net and SQL developer, mostly web interfaces lately, I'm very excited to see your vision/foundation for the next generation operating environment, as well as for the phone operating environment. Hopefully in the future the Phone Team can have a first class blog like this one too!

  470. Alex Dubinsky says:

    Why do you want to avoid stylistic "churn"? Entire industries are built on it. It's called fashion. DO IT!

    Seriously, you're just being stupid. Do you know how many cars would be sold if they didn't stylistically churn every year? None. And everyone would resent them, and think they're just unfortunate hunks of metal that break down and "crash" all the time. And noone would ever, ever get laid for owning one. You know, sort of like the situation with Windows-based PCs.

  471. Jon says:

    Speaking of WMC, perhaps you can answer some of these questions:

    Why not give WMC a Metro UI? It seems like a perfect candidate for that kind of a change. In fact, going one step further– why not integrate WMC directly into the Metro start screen, making it a fullscreen application like the others displayed in the demo? Or maybe this is already in the works?

    Honestly, the first thing I thought when I saw the demo was: "Metro would make a great UI for my TV, maybe I can migrate to that from WMC". At this point, they seem to serve a very similar purpose, they would probably do well to be consolidated. Of course, maybe there's a business decision behind keeping them separate (you can bundle them in different SKU's for more $$$).

  472. raymond says:

    Give us portrait mode and how the metro will work in portrait mode and how apps and stuff will work in that mode.

    Give us the Microsoft Courier as well please.

  473. Windowsfan says:

    @Alex Dubinsky  I'm pretty sure you and Steven are thinking of different definitions when you use the word "churn" haha. Hilarious post though, and I agree: the Windows 8 team needs to be aggressively "fashion" minded along with being function minded.

  474. Timothy says:

    i like 3D areo glassy interface with live wallpaper desktop .

  475. Ribbon issues says:

    I read a comment on Cnet, not sure if it made it here, but this actually made some sense to people used to menu systems of old.

    news.cnet.com/8618-10805_3-20102069.html

    This user sums up why its hard to get used to the ribbon I think.

  476. Steven Ballmer says:

    I am so fat that i decided to make Windows UI totally flat.

  477. akelkar says:

    The biggest advantage of ribbon is that it does not cover your work on the screen. When you hover over an effect selection, it gets applied to e.g. a photo. You can see the effect in its entirety. This is not possible when you have menus open covering your photo. The same applies to how fonts can be previewed or text wrap in word.

  478. I think all the media experiences should be integrated into Zune.

  479. Hi,

    Completely off-topic : sorry for that.

    But I do not know where to file the following question.

    This web-site does not seem to be compatible with IE9 !

    I am getting the compatibility icon to the right of the address bar on top of the IE screen.

    Isn't that strange for an MS-site ?????

  480. @Macky and anyone else that want/need better codec support for Windows Media Player. You just need to install CCCP codec pack and Media Player will play almost everything for you. See http://www.cccp-project.net for info and download.

  481. Don says:

    I love Media Center. But…

    When I record 2 consecutive shows on the same channel, some amount (perhaps 5 to 10 seconds) does not get recorded.

    You could fix this by copying the last 10 seconds of the first recording and putting it at the beginning of the second recording.

  482. Tigriz says:

    That's an amazing work!

    Windows 8 will be a great acheivement! I feel something interesting with Windows 7 on my HP slate 500 but the Interaction Experience still remain slow and difficult.

    Is a "Declarative 3D for HTML5" integration something in current work for Windows 8? It could be very interesting to have webapp based on webGL or WebDirectX?

    The W3C has opened a Community Group on this topic : http://www.w3.org/…/declarative3d

    You can find nice demos here : http://www.x3dom.org and http://www.xml3d.org

    Thank you again for your work.

  483. Patrik says:

    Hi guys,

    You really have to take a look at the slow performance in your filesystem when you work with a lot of small files.

  484. Hi Steven! Thanks for Windows 8.

  485. Indika says:

    we would like to see transfering file from old pc to new must be easier through wifi whn setup or bluetooth, connectivity  zune must intergareted and sholud be able to play and sync with pc's wirelessley and w8 should be capable of streming meadia(music/photos/video/games/3d bluray) from wmeadia or Zune wirelessley to tv

    or to display unit, wide support for intel Widi, whn open  more than one application instead of minimise in to task bar sit behind desktop invisible matter of key storek or swipe or using gusture command to be able to bring froward and  backword, desktop icon 3d cube style (will awesome wtih touch screen pc's) start menu drop form top ,quick startup time, auto update , built in malware scanner, more enhance and sipmlyfy face recognition in live photo gallery(pls do include enough sample to be able to demonstrate panorama,collage,3d)

    whn saving file in to desktop according to extension save behinde each other( ex word file will all ways sit behind word file save in desktop according to alphabet quick mouse hover will be able to see all file behind 3d cube) will save lot of sapce in desktop look nice

  486. MrT says:

    Please, please, please, start thinking about eliminating the need to use the registry and improving the way one can install and uninstall applications (like, for example, the way one installs applications in the mobile phone).

  487. At last!!  A sensible debate about the future of 'Media' in Windows, it's long overdue.  We have three main Microsoft media apps floating around:

    • Windows Media Player – a fine all-rounder for most people, works with a lot of existing mp3 player devices.

    • Zune Media Player – has the most complete ecosystem including Marketplace and ZunePass and of course is the only app that works with Windows Phone.

    • Windows Media Center – designed to work with large screen scenarios with physical Remote controls where you are several feet away from the screen.

    The trouble is that there’s nothing inherently wrong with either of these applications, they were all developed for specific situations and built at different OS timeframes with different goals in mind at the time.  But here we are, staring at the wonder of ‘Windows reimagined’ to coin Mr Sinofsky’s words, there is a real danger of Microsoft creating a 4th media player vector in the form of a Windows 8 styled, Metro looking media app that blends into the Metro User Interface very well but has no meaningful bearing on anything else.  

    I sincerely hope at the very least that Windows Media Player and Zune Media Player are merged so that they can do everything including ‘Play To’, Image browsing /touch-up, streaming, podcasting, internet radio and of course, re-discover those ‘other’ mp3 players that currently can’t work with Zune.

    If Windows Media Center cannot be merged with the other two, then I would like to see it merged into the front-end Metro interface and with a full-screen view for large screens.

    The key thing though is that we don’t end up with codec dependencies, movies that don’t work in both places or protected music issues.  There should be a single, unified Media Library and common (shared) playlist lists and an architecture that extends seamlessly with other devices including WP7, XBOX and WHS.

    With the Metro UI, this is the best opportunity to unify so much of what is still broken and disjointed in Windows 7, which simply carried over the same entrenched, walled-media gardens of the past.

    Come on Microsoft, don’t fail us this time, even if multiple apps (or app interfaces) must continue, create something beautiful, integrated and most of all unified!

  488. Mike says:

    I have twice tried to post a critical comment about the negative influence of partners on the experience of end users, the comment has NOT been posted. I though you were going to be open here?

  489. @ Steven Sinofsky – Will you be announcing the final name for "Windows 8" and "windows 8" Server in BUILD  or it's just called Windows 8?

  490. Boycott says:

    Boycott Windows 8 until ribbon is removed.

    Please join the Facebook page to boycott Windows 8

  491. Windows User says:

    I can not even open this page in IE 9. The page freezes and crashes the computer. Fix your page MS. i have to use Firefox to open the page.

    Ribbon should be removed. If MS does not want to listen, than the MS will lose a lot of customers. The ribbon was designed by some 6 years old working at MS and that is why they do not want to remove it.

  492. @ Windows User

    IE9, I think still has some problems that make the page slow, freeze and even crash… I hope they should fix it with IE10. By the way, please look at how IE9 performs Microsoft.com page animation –>when I switch between FOR WORK and FOR HOME part, its animation is pretty lag compare to Chrome so IE team please improve it. Make it smooth and beautiful experience.

  493. Windows User says:

    Thanks @nowuniverse

    I had this problem since I upgrade from IE 8. I wish I never upgrade. I am think of reformating but that might me I will have to reactive windows and I do not want to spend several hours with person from India that does not speak English to active it again. For now, I switched to Firefox and I am happy.

    Does Chrome work better than Firefox?

  494. Gordon says:

    I have *two* windows media center PC's.  Both collecting dust right now.  Why?  Because the Netflix plugin doesn't work in Canada.  So I other things (like PS3) for media instead.  Would love to keep MCE, though.

  495. oledude says:

    Speaking of UI, are we getting tabbed explorer windows in win8?

  496. @Windows User –

    Of course Chrome is better than Firefox because when you open Firefox and load the page you still have the feeling of delay while Chrome is instant and light from performance to appearance. That's why Chrome market share gain pretty fast. I hope IE team can write the piece of software to revolutionize IE and gain back their share.

  497. All divisions of Microsoft need to work together not just Windows and Windows Live division alone since Windows 8 borrows the look of Windows phone and productive ribbon from Office so these two departments also need to be involved to create a unified style among platform instead individual business. That's why many people who are not criticizing with ribbon still unsatisfied with current proposed ribbon of explorer as well as other app other than office 2010 like wordpad, paint, windows live essential….the ribbon needs to be lightweight, clean, and Aero glass friendly and by the way I would love to see animating live tile (MANGO like) of Windows 8 not the static title which showed at D9 conference.

  498. Windowsfan says:

    @Mike Even positive comments don't get posted sometimes. There are PLENTY of negative comments that get posted, look around. they wouldn't ban your post because it is critical of their design philosophies. I think the posting mechanism is broken, that's all. Remember to copy your post and repost it until it appears.

  499. trukhinyuri says:

    Please make a phonetic keyboard layout for Russian

  500. Jared says:

    All I want is compatibility. I like the fact of the windows aero interface, but what about the computers that don't have the compatibility to run the aero interface? What I'm looking for is a way to change the taskbar  color to other colors ,Instead of only having one theme theme color that you can't change (Thank you for reading this comment)

  501. Janson Ragon says:

    @ Steven_Sinofsky I've scanned through the comments here and seen this only once.  Can you elaborate on the design decision to base the Windows 8 ribbon on that of the Office 2007 implementation rather than Office 2010.  One of the crtisicms of the ribbon was its lack of customisaiton which was addressed in Office 2010.  Although there is a customisable QAT, I can't help feeling that some of the resistance to the ribbon could be helped by allowing users to create there own custom Ribbon Tab.

    Regarding comments here, do you use a RSS tool for keeping up with them, or do you just you Internet Explorer on the web for scanning them?  Im a long time Windows Beta Tester, and this communication is great, if somewhat less structured than newsgroup conversations of the past.  Keep up the great feedback loop though, it is very much appreciated.

    Best of luck with //Build

    Cheers

    Janson

  502. Bring back Stocks, Notes and Contact — all widgets removed from Vista to Windows 8, please!

  503. Steve says:

    Why not utilize WPF and .NET Framework's existing and proven API to develop MULTI-TOUCH interface???

    You are NUTS pushing the ugly HTML5 stinker. But whatever – you'll do your damage and get paid salary and bonuses in the end – so it does not really matter what I say.

    Windows 8 The Stinker Ultimate

  504. Peter Flindt says:

    Hello,

    I like Ribbons and Metro, but what I not like is the missing GUI guidelines for MS products,

    start 10 different Microsoft products on Win 7 and you will have 10 different GUIs.

    (File-)Explorer, IE, Live Messenger, MS Office, other Live applications, WMP all this have different GUIs.

  505. Quick question, if you are building a new app store, will all updates be done through the new store?  If so, will this replace the windows update window?  There should only on update process for all applications and os components.

  506. Windows User says:

    @nowuniverse

    Thanks for the info. I might try it and see how it is.

  507. dreamer77dd says:

    i love media centre but would not use it because it was not mature enough for me. i also think with APU hardware coming out it will help bring it into the living room as well as Windows. think of Xbox being your windows machine. an all in one device. People dont mind putting computers and things in their living room if they are done nice, media is media. Think netflix.

  508. lluis says:

    WMC, WMP and Zune need to be merged.

  509. I like the Ribbon UI, but I can't bear the complexity of it. I think that the most important buttons must be left and the others must be cancelled, like the Open Button and History Button. Windows 8’s purpose is to simplify users operations, not to confuse them. As a future PM and UE Designer, too much buttons is a great mass for me, also for other users. I deeply believe it. And don’t you feel that there are too many lines in the Function Area, which users will hate?

  510. نقیب الله باباخانی says:

    ای ووووووووووووووووووووووووووووووووووووووووول

  511. Will Microsoft be adding any kind of Virtual Desktop capabilities? Like multiple desktops. Linux has it and Mac had had it for a long time. When will Windows catch up?

  512. adam says:

    the metro UI must be more mouse friendly, it is hard to swap by the mouse

  513. adam says:

    please get rid of Aero style and make the desktop  consistent with Metro UI in style and fluid movemnt

  514. bill says:

    please get rid of Metro UI. It reeks of Nazi Fascism, is hardly fluid, or whatever the dude before me implies.

  515. Stiki says:

    What I've read on the web:

    Ryan LM

    September 1, 2011 at 5:22 am

    It is a cluttered mess. This is the platform team fighting with the .Net team. They are the only hold out that actually likes Aero.

    We have a lot of ego here. Sinofsky is now in charge, he used to run Office. Now he is in Windows, so naturally, we need ribbons! It sold so well! That is all that matters!

    We need a solid UI on windows, we need consistency across the board. They have Metro, but one group doesn’t get it, guess who? img199.imageshack.us/…/metrothreescreenwaitami.jpg

    What is even more funny is their logic on this one. As they pointed out, most people use context menus, and ignore the toolbar, by a wide margin. Their solution – make the toolbar BIGGER! Steven even replied in the comments saying they have packed in 200+ commands (190 of which people dont use), forgetting that commands make up only a small portion of what everyone uses explorer for – browsing.

    People in the comments are coming up with better ideas : http://www.moquo.com.ar/…/Windows8ExplorerConcept1.1.jpg

    Reply

    Peter van Dam

    September 1, 2011 at 3:41 pm

    Yes, that better idea is ALOT better. Just not sure if everything will fit in that small height, but still, a lot better. However, I guess it will be slightly diffecult for non-expert users to work with it because it looks way to much to tabs like in IE, not tabs of a menubar. But hopefully this can be an ‘expert’ mode that makes us happy

  516. ord2koa says:

    Our family are big fans of Media Center.

    I think if Microsoft would explain to people that media center works as a DVR and you can stream throughout your house, you'd get more people using it.  

  517. Crispin says:

    I really miss Windows Media Center in the BUILD version of Windows 8 .. please try to get this in sync for the next public preview as this is stopping me testing my Media Center Add-ons .. and using it as my HTPC as well! Many thanks!

  518. James says:

    Regarding the Ribbon….here's a suggestion.

    When the Ribbon is hidden/minimized, and then you click on one of the Ribbon Tabs to show it, then it would be lovely if the other tabs in the Ribbon would then hot track when the mouse cursor hovers over them …. a la menu top level menu item behaviour…..this would make it infinitely easier to quickly be able to scan whats in a ribbon.

    Being more aggressive you could also hottrack the initial Ribbon tab interaction i.e. with a collapsed Ribbon as soon the mouse cursor is over a Ribbon tab title show it..thus alleviating an additional RSI inducing click.

    Failing that, add the Visual Studio 2011 ability to filter/search for commands so they can be found easily.

  519. Here are some suggestions:

    1. Metro UI is very touch-friendly. Completely replacing the start menu, however, could make desktop-centric tranditional computers "mouse-unfriendly". It makes more sense NOT to fully blind the desktop behind the Metro UI start page when a user just want to launch another application program while working on the desktop. Maybe one of your design philosophy is to get rid off the start menu anyway. However, having a "miniature Metro Start", which only covers part of the desktop, as an alternative to launch apps directly from the desktop environment, may be a better idea than always bring users back to the full screen Metro start page.

    2. I think it's still better to allow users to explicitly close those Metro-styled apps rather than leaving them in the background by pressing windows key until being swapped out. There are several reasons to make it this way. First, some apps keep playing music in the background, which can be annoying for those who don't want anymore. Second, some apps may display sensitive personal information that the user may only want to peek it for a few second then close. Leaving them in the background may accidentally bring the sensitive information back on the screen just by pressing the windows key or closing a foreground app. Third, ordinary users (a.k.a. most users) don't understand the mechanism of virtual memory. They are very likely to blame the apps left in the background suck up system resources. Though we all know that idling apps are always ready to give up physical memory space to active apps when needed.

    This preview version of Windows 8 is already a great tablet (and tablet-netbook hybrid) operating system. However, I would like to see more UX improvement on traditional (desktop-centric, mouse operated) computing.

  520. Per Lundstrøm says:

    Have Windows 8 Preview. Where can I see witch application who have taken my battery?

  521. tom says:

    what   AsumaHung  wrote – 2 comments above me- are necessary  changes microsoft should take in their consideration  

    also here another 2 suggestions

    1- it seems to need feature like mission control in mac lion os(you can put a button for it in start bar that slide from the right side of the screen in windows developers preview of tablets) ,which when you click on it you can see all your opened apps in one screen and close any one. in addition each METRO app must have a CLOSE button and Minimize button so you can minimize any app to "mission control" or what you want to name

    2- we want tiles to serve as folders so you can put  FILES  or apps in it .

  522. IE9 USER INTERFACE & GENERAL UI DESIGN

    The design of old versions of IE (8.0 to 1.0) was very cluttered, with icons, menus, and lots of screen space wasted in many ways.

    But, when Google Chrome saw the light for first time, the world was fascinated for how Google handles to have a very innovating UI design and amazing functionality: tabs at the top of the window, speed of response, and very innovative integration with Windows native UI (aero glass support, Segoe ui font). Chrome was born a little time ago, and its incredible how fast people are using it as its primary browser.

    It’s not a coincidence that IE teams, later, understood what a good example of concept and design Chrome was!

    So,  it’s not a coincidence at all, that IE9 sports now a very sleek and minimal design, very close to Chrome UI.

    So, here are some questions:

    1) Why IE team took the risk of redesigning the whole UI for IE9; without been afraid by customers?

    2) Why they did a UI design WITH COMPROMISE for IE9, and now Steven said "no compromises" replying when people here asked for a new & polished interface?

    1) Why Windows 8 team seems not been interested in redesign the Ribbon, and they’re not care about of what many people want?

    2) Wasn’t Google Chrome UI a proof enough of what the people want?

    RIBBONS

    Ribbon can be very useful, but it really needs to have a better and consistent design, the same for each icon in it. And we need a way so we can customize/add/delete commands from the ribbon.

    SUGGESTIONS

    – Aero Snap it's one of the most important features for everyday work, but it needs to be improved. It needs 2 additional functions: 1) that you can snap windows in 4 or more parts of the screen, like was implemented in Google Chrome. 2) that you can “stick” 2 or more windows using the borders to resize windows automatically (as showed with Metro Apps windows)

    – Control window buttons must be redesigned… Take a look at this screenshot: http://www.moquo.com.ar/…/buttons.png –  here you will see a good example for button/window design…

    I have many many suggestions… for the taskbar and many more…

  523. commongenius says:

    "We chose the ribbon mechanism, and to those that find that a flawed choice, there isn’t much we can do other than disagree."

    Well, you could LISTEN to our complaints, try to understand them instead of dismissing them out of hand and insisting that "if you try it you'll like it", and then maybe try to explain why your think our complaints are unjustified, or outweighed by other factors. In the years since the Ribbon was introduced, I have never once seen a Microsoft employee actually directly address the specific complaints of those who don't like it. What a refreshing change that would be.

  524. You say that you've heard from users that it feels jarring to go to the desktop, so you've decided to make the desktop work like an app that you can use as little or as often as you want.

    To me, this is the other way around on desktops and laptops, Windows's primary consumer base. To me, I do almost all of my Windows 8 usage in the desktop and it feels incredibly jarring every time I open Metro, the Start Screen, or elements of Windows 8's new UI.

    It seems that it would actually make more sense for Windows 8 on desktops to boot into the desktop like it always has, then load Metro for special purposes. Metro is designed for touch, but it is hard to justify using an interface like Metro on the desktop.

    The learning curve for Metro is like a small mountain with the promise of something big at the top. I climbed that mountain, and when I reached the top, I was disappointed. There is no adavntage that I can see to using Metro on the desktop. Everything done in Metro can be done in the desktop, and, as I've said before, it would be best to design the UI for desktops from the ground up, rather than designing for touch and then converting for mice and keyboards, or designing for two completely different usage methods at once. Please post something about this on the blog soon, I have been waiting with huge anticipation ever since I started using the Developer Preview.

  525. jhevener says:

    Win8 works pretty well on my HP EliteBook 2740p. Metro is great and so is IE10!

    I would like to see the concept of the ability to cascade open web pages like iTunes does with Album Covers, where a swipe left or right would allow moving back and forth between the page history.

    One major drawback to the on screen keyboard is that there is so much wasted space around the edges where commonly used keys @ and / and especially ".com" among others could be available. I love the size of the keys but maybe they and especially the huge space bar could be reduced to somehow accommodate bringing the number keys back to the top row or moving the keyboard left and bringing back the number pad. IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO BE ABLE TO TYPE A PASSWORD WITHOUT HAVING TO SHIFT THE KEYBOARD FOR EVERY NUMBER.

    Just some initial thoughts. Thanks

  526. selina says:

    I like the fact of the windows aero interface, but what about the computers that don't have the compatibility to run the aero interface?While it's a good thing to get all important buttons visible, tagreplicas.com/category.php

  527. Systemanalytiker says:

    I don´t like the Metro Style for the desktop. And i don´t like the DesktopApp in order to witch to the classic desktop mode. I want to have a possibility from Microsoft to deactivate the MetroStyle permanently.

    If not i will not change from Window 7 to Windows 8.

  528. Paul Warnk says:

    Ask yourself this, how many people had cell phones before the iPhone.  How many people have TV’s, there has to be a reason why people do not use WMC.  Make it easy to set up, make it extendable and they will come.

  529. Bob Sacomano says:

    With the new cablecard tuners, media center is unbeatable. I can't believe Microsoft is not highlighting this more?  Nothing compares with it's dvr, puts cable co dvrs to shame, and I'm saving $20 a month in rental fees (which will pay for the cablecard very quick).  You can build libraries of dvds, music, pictures.  Play blurays, netflix.  And yes other formats (1080p HDDTS mkv, flac) via codecs readily.  It's really a great product, but not for the mouse, for the couch.  There's a dozen programs to play mp3s, but only one can do cablecard.  If a manufacturer could put together a $350 media center cablecard pc, it could go mainstream easily.

    I just wish they would add the following features:

    1. PIP, how hard would this be?

    2. Display port support for hdcp, who left this out? I want ESPN on my laptop.

    3. Dynamic tuner sharing/switching over your home network/homegroup.

    4. Share copy once materials within your network/homegroup.

    5. Native bluray support.  

    6. Perhaps a web interface to manage guide/recordings, I know I can just RD in.

    7. Better streaming/extender support. I SHOULD be able to use any W7 pc as an extender w/ 1080p.